 It's Rachel Wolfson here. Thanks again for joining us for another AMA. Today I'm joined by Josh Cal. He is the founding member and head of product at Exko. Hey Josh, how's it going? Yeah, it's going wonderful. Thanks Rachel. Yeah, thanks again for being here with us, Josh. Before we get started, I want to ask the audience to please send your questions in the chat. Yeah, just jump right in, Josh. So I just wanted to know before we get started more about Exko, how do you view the crypto landscape currently? Yes, it's really interesting and exciting time for crypto and blockchain. If we rewind time a bit and just think how we got where we're kind of in the metaphor. So you know, without 2009, 2010 with your cypher folks, your coders, your programmers who basically designed electronic cash. We had a market cycle and they're making it from there. We had let us call them millions who are fighting for financial freedom. So the next use case for the technology for that come and go. And then came 2017, which I'll call the speculative bubble, which most of our audience is probably familiar with. And it's the fourth wave where we're really looking at the global stage. So institutional interest is going in. And now is the time when, you know, if there's any businesses or people who want to come in and give something to the world, this is the best opportunity to establish something that will last great to the mass audiences. So, yes, we see institutions coming in, sort of replicating traditional finance structure. I'd say leaving the space. They were very interested when crypto is like prices where it's enticing for them when they're losing money. And I'll come on to why this is why this is a bad thing in a moment. We've seen things such as NFTs or tokens. We had DeFi summer earlier this year. We've seen the metaverse kind of tried to be hyped. But in my opinion, we're not really ready for that yet. So it's a very good time for outfits to build real, tangible, proper, useful solutions while stored. It is happening and the retail interest has suffered somewhat. Right. Yeah. And Josh, how long have you been in the crypto space just out of curiosity? Because you've seen this evolution happen for quite a while now, right? Yeah, I'd say so. So I got started in this 2009, 2010. So really, really at the outset of things with, you know, Satoshi and the Bitcoin white paper. I mean, my background is in mathematics and physics, but by education. So I was a math scientist by study. I was interested in computer programming. And to kind of go to the stereotype, played a lot of computer games and spent a lot of time on the internet. So it's just a matter of time before blockchain and crypto came my way. So I've been, let's say, invested in the space, but I'm also a spokesperson with the technology. And in parallel to that, I've had just under a decade of experience. So I spent close to a decade in enterprise risk. So modeling for large banks, national banks, probability of default modeling, looking at large books, working on working in the regulatory space and the advisory as well. Yeah. Let's talk about what the Ethereum merge, can you talk a little bit about how that's impacted the crypto ecosystem lately? Yeah, okay. So really, most exciting thing that's happened in about seven years. And what's better is it's the first step. Sorry, you can go and look up Vitalik Butte, the founder of Ethereum, and you can find out what the roadmap has in order. It's been a great first step in terms of ESG, which is another big topic in the physical world where we're all missing at the moment. So it's reduced the energy costs by about 99% in some statistics where that's saying actually that the global energy consumption has reduced by 0.2% purely because of this. But there is a flip side to it. Moving from proof of work, the existing, the previous consensus mechanism to proof of stake potentially opens up the protocol to hypercentralization, which is capital basically being able to get more power into validating power for the Ethereum network. So I hope it doesn't steer that way. But that's something we really have to watch and be wary of with Ethereum. So it's a double-edged sword, I'd say. Right, definitely. Yeah, there are definitely advantages and disadvantages. And we'll just have to see how that unfolds as we move forward. I'm going to take a few questions from the chat and just audience quick reminder send those our way. Josh is here to answer them. So Ellie Millen is asking, what is web 2.5? Josh, maybe you can answer that question before we get into the next question that I have for you, which is about web 3. Yeah, fantastic. I mean, a good question given the title of the talk. So hopefully what I'll list over the next half now is, well, web 2.5 should the eggs go? The world isn't ready for web 3. I won't go too much into what we is. But there's certain problems, there's certain rough edges with web 3. The user experienced the barrier to entry that the user has to have. There's a lot of responsibility on the end user, a lot of education. There needs to be a stepping stone. So a stepping stone from web 2, from traditional finance that sits between that world and the web 3 fully decentralized world. So that involves a whole suite of solutions, products, helping hand essentially. And that's what you'll see with Exgo. We're bringing that to the world. Yeah, definitely. I mean, Josh, we're hearing a lot of a lot about web 3 right now. I mean, I was just at the web 3 Expo in Vegas yesterday, actually. I mean, do you think that web 3 is really just hype right now? Or do you see actual use cases evolving, you know, with this stepping stone being in place of web 3 actually evolving? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the use cases do already exist. I mean, let's look at it from two perspectives, both from from the builders and the end users. From the builders, there are good projects out there. You know, we have, you know, decentralized finance applications, we have logistic chain. Even even looking at, you know, the ownership of things in games and profile pictures. Some will argue there's not much use case there, but but these things are, you know, they have web 2 analogies, and they really do have a large following behind them. The problem is, and linking back to an earlier question with what's the landscape like now? All these fantastic projects and protocols are afraid to release their offerings to the world with this bear market, because you could have the best product, the best offering, and no one will adopt it. So they're scared to release it. So I think we need a few more parallels from from the web 2 universe first, before web 3 will be will be truly adopted. A bit of a, you know, dip your toe in the water and see things are safe enough before everyone gets fully enveloped in the space. But from the end user, we need more transparency, we need more protection. There are rug pulls, there are, you know, people don't know what they are signing when they interact with web 3, that they lose their assets, that they get lost in interfaces, there are, you know, phishing scams all over the place, which we have in web 2 as well. It's just unfortunate that a lot of new comes to the space. Do do trick. Yeah, definitely. I also think it's interesting that given the market being where it is today, there's still a lot of, it seems like there's a lot of investor interest in web 3, even though, you know, the prices of crypto are down. I mean, Josh, what are your thoughts? Why do you think we're seeing investor interest in web 3 given market conditions? I think now is the perfect time to build because when there's hype and interest in the market, users are demanding, you know, rapid product after product, everything has to work seamlessly. A lull in the storm, you know, if you think of the whole market in crypto, it is hyper accelerated compared to traditional markets. There really isn't much time to go down and build during those periods. I think, I think, you know, the VCs are aware of this. There's a lot of lessons that have been learned in the previous waves. So the main set that's been set on the side is it's ready to be to learn these lessons, build the products properly. Definitely. Okay, on that note, I see that we've got some questions coming in about Exco in the platform. So I know that we have a clip before we start speaking about Exco. So how about we go ahead and roll that clip and then Josh will get into Exco. I love that clip. So Josh, let's follow up. Yeah, let's let's talk about Exco. Can you kind of tell us a little bit about the platform? Yeah, sure. I want to speak a bit about a bit about the people first. In terms of platform products, a lot of bread and butter has existed for a long time. Any team can go out there and partner with with various businesses and outfit to put something together. But really, you need the right people at the helm. Up until today, you know, crypto has been a speculative asset, we just created a new asset class, which people are trading and and nowhere in your Satoshi's vision or the you know, the original ethos or principles of crypto was that there was supposed to use it as a system. So, you know, our founder is a founder and co founder of multiple large businesses you would know held multiple C-suite positions, also in various crypto companies. And he's had multiple exits and he really wanted to get back to the basics of this crypto ethos. Our head of staking and yield, you know, he worked at a large Neobank very spearheaded staking products, you know, offerings to millions of customers over Europe. And he led the go to market at a popular cold wallet storage business and for millions of users to delegate their assets. From a community background, I mean, myself, I've been in this for 12 years. We have another excellent gentleman I'm very privileged to work with who who has a large background, anti fraud, data analytics, which led to a curiosity and an engagement in the space. Six years ago. And he's he covers all aspects of tokenomics, dnfts has a bit as four years of cryptocurrency community management experience. And then from the operations and customer customer journey, customer experience perspective, we have a few people from large companies, who have come together to basically stitch these building blocks. So there's a lot of companies out there. It's a very fragmented landscape. The bricks are available. But no one's really acting as the mortar to join them together and have a complete solution that is is consumable by the mass audience. And you know, Exco is here to onboard the next 100 million users into crypto. That doesn't mean a spot margin futures, you know, a leverage trading platform where people will become millionaires overnight or lose their money. They we need to go back to the principles go, Hey, what's your crypto identity? How do you exist in in Web three, Web 2.5 on the blockchain, and then get your crypto on the blockchain, and then get your crypto, then move your assets from from web to from trad five from fiat currencies. There's a step everyone's missing. And and we have three platforms coming out. Which which which offers something for for different people. Because again, the question of what was happening in the space, if we revert to that question, adopt is the biggest problem. It's not regulation. It's not me. It's not scanning. Before you get any of that, you need people. Today, the the current crypto adoption population is so small. If we as crypto businesses rely on that, we won't be here in five years, we won't be here in 10 years. And that may sound selfish. But let's think about it a step further. Crypto will also not exist if that happens. So it's in the best interest of crypto business. It's in the best interest of anyone who's on board with crypto and new financial system that you know, she had the vision for, we need to fix this, we need new users, we need them to understand the benefits, and it's not becoming millionaire overnight. So what you'll see from from Exco is the joining of these piecemeal services. And I'll say another thing, you know, we're not overly proud that we have to build everything ourselves. We will and we do partner with experts in the space. And and we will build and have built the small pieces that we think are missing to join this stuff together. So what is Exco? Well, who is Exco for? If you were Nike trainers, if you use Amazon in the future, when you think of crypto, you will be using Exco where you should be using Exco. Some people will criticize it if you're going after everyone in terms of target demographics. It is crazy, you know, well, that's not a strategy at all. But I mean, hear me out on this. With Nike trainers, you've got three types of users. You've got A, the users who have never run before. B, the users who have done some running and they want to upgrade, do it better. And then three, you have the experts, you know, you have the pro athletes. Nike has something for everyone, different tools for different people. So that's what we have. We have Exco, Exco plus and Exco plus plus. Exco is a mobile experience. Exco plus is a desktop experience that enhances a few more features, a bit more security over the mobile experience. And then Exco plus plus is if you're a true crypto native already or an absolute DGN, that's where you'll go. And what people will have seen to date in our beta platform is Exco plus plus. You'll see in Q4 of this year is us taking a step back. Everyone's focused on NFTs, Web3. The newcomers, the masses, they're not ready for that. They can't use it. So we're bringing the bread and butter back to crypto with Exco and Exco plus. And that's what we'll bring to the masses. Got it. Okay. Yeah, great explanation. Let's take some questions from the audience. Sly Mug is asking what are some of the incentives to traders for using this platform as opposed to more liquid exchanges? Yeah, fantastic. I mean, straight away, look, I mean, the focus is on, you know, how can we trade? What's the benefit for traders? Exco can do that. We have a trading platform, Exco plus plus, the three of the three products we have. That is the only product where you will see a bar chart, where you will see an order book. The previous two products, the more simple ones, they don't have that. And I mean, in terms of liquidity, won't be an issue. What people have seen in our beta stages has been, you know, to bootstrap our testing incentives. Well, our mission is to bring the benefits that institutions have in terms of rates, in terms of liquidity to retail traders, if we're focusing on traders, we will bring that to them. And then in terms of tools, you'll have your spot, you'll have your margin, you'll have your futures, you know, with thinking about more sophisticated things, you know, tailored portfolios that you can invest in with one click, you know, DeFi NFTs. We'll have all of that. Got it. Okay, cool. I'm also going to take another question from Tom, too. They're asking if I want to integrate, how can I get listed, et cetera, on Exco? If you want to get integrated in terms of, in terms of you have some technology, some service to provide to people, you know, reach out to relations at Exco.com and we can have a conversation. We've got a fantastic tech team behind us who, you know, who are helping us build all of these things. If you're talking about crypto tokens and projects, go to exco.com forward slash ad hyphen token. There's a simple form. You can reach out there. We just ask, you know, are you a new layer one? Are you on an existing layer one? What's your project about? Are you listed anywhere else? A few simple questions. Our listings team will get back to you and we'll have a video conversation. So, yeah, we want to bring a bit of a bit of a human interaction and, you know, less automation to the process. You know, crypto can be a very alienating experience to some people. You know, it's all don't trust verify. Exco has some great people. We want to have a face-to-face conversation for any type of project. Yeah. Cool. Josh, I wanted to get your thoughts on the regulatory landscape of crypto and how Exco views regulations. Maybe just chat a little bit about that and why regulations are important in your opinion or if they're not important. Yeah. I mean, so crypto is, you know, intended to be this decentralized solution. I think the reality is if regulators want to come in and regulate and stop things from happening that they can do, that there's not really much that can stop that. So companies like ourselves, we like to have open conversations with regulators and work with them, help them to understand this, you know, this space that in some sense is still in its infancy. I know we've been talking about this for 12 years in terms of mass adoption. It hasn't really happened. I think that, you know, Mika and Europe is going to hinder a lot of innovation in the space. The builders will move away from Europe. It's too much, too soon. I think it's been a bit too strong. But regulation does need to happen in a certain capacity, a certain level, to protect end users. I mean, we've seen, I don't like to name names, we've had various investment platforms and staking offerings where the yields were unobtainable and things fell apart. End users weren't protected. They need to understand with complete transparency what they're getting themselves into. People need to understand the risk to reward. Once they understand that, if they're still game, fine, go ahead. But if people are offered things with a false sense of safety and the regulation isn't there, things will go wrong. Yeah. No, that's a great answer, I think. I just wanted to get your take on it because we want mainstream adoption to happen and I think regulations are important in order for that to happen, especially what we've seen recently with some exchanges going bankrupt. I think it can really turn people off, especially the mainstream. I mean, yeah, that brings me on to another point about what the ecosystem will look like. We see a lot of other platforms where there's a bit of, I use the word gatekeeping happening, where it's a customer grab and a cash grab all in one. People want to bolt on every single product under the sun into one system in one interface. A, it's confusing as hell to any user coming into that. You come as to crypto, don't know traditional finance trading screens, let alone some natives. We really need to take a step back in that sense. Yeah, definitely. Thanks again for sending us your questions, audience. I'll take another one from Sly Mug. They're asking, are NFTs the best way for mainstream adoption? I'll take my ex-cat hat off for a second and bring back the DGEM which I do have. I live two parallel lives here. NFTs have been great. It's been a great use case to show and explain how non-fungible tokens work. In the fiat world, you have a coin that's minted, they're all the same, but then banknotes all have a unique number on them. With NFTs, you can say, well, with that unique serial number, it could be any data, whether it's a picture, it's your car's service record history, it's the supply chain of your burger. We haven't really seen that be adopted in the way it was intended. I think art has its place, but it'll be a very, it'll be a fraction or a small fraction of the NFT use case. What I'm very excited about is to see GameFi come back in a very big way. So there are a few people from the web to gaming world who are putting the game first rather than the NFT first. I mean, we've seen very successful NFT products, the board apes, the azuki's, all of these. You have your profile pictures, you have your NFT, and I feel like the games and the utility is being bolted on. They've been successful. They've raised a lot of money from the sales of the NFT themselves and from external funding, but they're not game builders. So now we've got these web to people coming in building the game first. There's new models in terms of the tokenomics of how the NFTs are used, you know, staking, burning, creating new ones, factory models. This is going to be very exciting. I mean, let's not ignore gaming as a vehicle for any industry, let alone crypto to get exposure. You know, the next generation of our leaders probably played a lot more computer games than the current ones. So let's see what happens there. NFTs will be around. Yeah, no, I agree with you. That's such a great answer. We've got time for maybe a few more questions. So MW is asking, do you offer a fiat on slash off ramp? Yeah, an important question. The answer is yes. You'll see that pretty soon. And what's important for us is to make the fiat on ramp as accessible to as many people around the world. So, you know, what a lot of businesses will be doing is, hey, look, we have an on ramp, but without getting too deep into it, in the world of payments, a lot of them are cross border payments. If you send fiat currency from one country to another, it's very expensive. So Exgo has the, you know, the globe is our vision. We want to set up local banking, local regulation everywhere we can so that customers get on boarded to, you know, regulated safe environments from where they're from and they get the fiat on ramp rates from the local banking. And that will all be stitched together under Exgo, one place where it's very simple to do. So we're removing a lot of the overhead that exists for all these kind of systems. There's a lot of work that goes into this stuff. You don't just build a product, you don't just build a website. There's a lot of operations, there's a lot of work to be done in the background and we've been doing it for a long time. And, you know, many of the people who are formed Exgo have been doing this for close to a decade. So you're going to see a lot of this roll out very, very quickly once we put our foot on the gas pedal over the next quarter of the next year. Yeah, awesome. Well, that's exciting. It looks like we're about out of time. So Josh, any final thoughts before we end our AMA today? I'll just say, yeah, we do have a promotion on. If you want to come and try Exgo, please do come, give feedback as good as it or bad as it may be. We want to take all the feedback on board. You can come and sign up and get a reward. Basically, we just want to make it beneficial for you to test our platform. We don't really want any cost on the end user. And yeah, don't be afraid to say hi. Reach out on social media. Reach out to the Exgo team. You know, support to exgo.com if you need any help. Relations at exgo.com. If you want to talk about partnerships or meet any members of the team. You know, we're a friendly bunch. We're excited about what we're doing. We want to meet you all. Come be part of the family. Awesome. That's great, Josh. Thanks so much again for your insights. Thanks again to the audience for sending us your questions. You guys have been great. Just want to remind everyone to please subscribe to our YouTube channel. We do these AMAs all the time with great people like Josh. Josh, thanks again. And yeah, I guess we are out of time. So we're going to sign off now and I'll see everyone next time. Yep. Have a great day. Bye, everyone.