 Okay, so this is the December 4th, 2019 meeting of the Community Resources Committee. We have a quorum here. We are expecting one member to show up late and I assume the other member will be here at some point. So I'm calling the meeting to order at 834. We are being videotaped. The first order of business is general public comment. This is gonna be on anything within CRC's purview, except for the discussion on the Downtown Parking Working Group priority recommendations. I will take public comment when we're discussing that later in the meeting. Is there any public comment? I am not seeing any. So we will move on to discussion items, the memo from the Downtown Parking Working Group priority recommendations. So moving along on our agenda, this one was referred to the Community Resources Committee on November 18th. Hi, Andy. We have our fourth member. We first talked about this at our last meeting and we have brought it back and we have two individuals here to help us through this discussion because we kind of ran into some problems at the first discussion of this. And so we have the former chair of the Downtown Parking Working Group, Christine Gray-Mullen, who also happens to be our current planning board chair and we have our Economic Development Director in town, Jeff Kravitz. So do you guys wanna take seats? And then when you get settled, I'll go through sort of some of the questions and sticking points we had at the last meeting and then we'll have a discussion and all. And thank you both for coming so bright and early in the morning. To Christine, who thought she was done when we dissolved the committee two and a half weeks ago. Good. So last discussion, we talked, we had a nice discussion but we were curious about, we were tasked with reporting back to the town council on these three priority recommendations of the now dissolved Downtown Parking Working Group. And we wanted to have a better discussion on all of them and we didn't feel we ourselves were well enough involved and knowledgeable to have that discussion. So we thank you for coming to hopefully give us the knowledge that we seem to be lacking. Some of the things we were looking for was what the difference between a parking benefit district and a transportation fund would be, why one might be better than another, what could they be, you know, all of that. So that I think is gonna be one of the things that we talk a lot about today to give us an idea because we just don't have all of that knowledge. In terms of signage, we wanted to know, we know stuff's in progress, we know stuff's not, what's timing, what's not, is there a benefit to doing it piecemeal or not? Things like that was our questions on signage and wayfinding and all of that. And then the first one was the parking management position. I think we mainly, we're not sure whether that part should be in finance committee or not, but one of the things I think we wanted to discuss and hear about from you guys's point of view is what that might that look like from Jeff's point of view as economic development director and from the downtown parking working group's point of view, why that was one of your highest priorities or actually it was listed number one and what the thinking behind that was in a little more detail than you were able to give the council when you brought these to the council. So that's sort of a summary of why we asked you to be here. Do we, do you guys wanna start with talking about some of that or would you rather have questions, direct questions to answer? We're definitely here to provide answers and clarifications. I think the other reason at least why I'm here is to help keep you out of the weeds because I know with parking it's really easy to start trying to solve parking problems and it's really a very large holistic system that you have to be careful you tweak one side and it moves up something else. So going into that I suggest we go through the one, two, three recommendations starting with the first. Sounds good. So the first one was the dedicated parking management position. So let's start with you Christine because you ran the committee that said this is our highest priority and what the question I guess I have is what's the reasoning behind that being the highest priority? It's pretty simple. Can you move the mic a little closer? It's pretty simple. Sorry it's in the morning I'm like. It's pretty simple. It's about having somebody responsible for the system and the entire system maintenance and operations and improving it. There's lots of people who are in charge of parts of it right now but nobody is in charge of the whole thing and looks at it like I said holistically is one big system. Or even has the power of the clout. You're mostly dealing with other department heads or superintendents that kind of thing. So you really need someone who is tasked to do parking and make it the best that it can be and make it high functioning and improvements and planning and tie it into the other parts that parking touches everything. It touches economic development. It touches public transportation. It touches how residents use and get around and of course green elements sustainability. So we just realized over and over again even as when we did the changes back in 2017 if you don't have someone who is going to see this through then it probably won't happen. How's that Jeff do you have anything else? Yeah, I actually brought visual aids and I'll hand these out. So this is some charts that I created as soon as I within the first week or two because I wanted to understand the entire parking system and to echo what Christine said it's really complicated. And so I'll hand it out and one page is sort of just all the different places people can park and then on the back are sort of the parking system users. And if you've seen this I don't need to hand them out but and the staff involved in it. So just point being that it's really complicated and there are a lot of moving parts and so I would echo with Christine that having one person that thinks about all the parts and how they're interrelated is critical. That would be fantastic to see this. Jeff and I didn't coordinate this but this is perfect. So this exactly shows you the departments in the different areas. And we would refer back to this document quite often to sort of ground ourselves in what, like I said you change one thing it impacts many other things. And we will for those watching at home and all we will get this into the packet for today's meeting for other visual users. So it looks like staff wise is sort of where we should be concentrating on today and looking at that chart, the council for the regulations then it goes to the manager then it goes to the working group which has been dissolved. So I guess from the manager it comes to then the economic development for coordination, police for enforcement, treasurer, collector for appeals, fines, fees and permits. Planning for coordination, DPW for maintenance and engineering and the senior center also issues permits. That's all six different entities it looks like under the town manager. Sandy. Hi, good morning. So I have a couple questions. So one is, have you looked at other communities and their management structure? And from that, do you have a sense of the job description or the amount of time that would be required in a full time equivalent kind of measurement. So we get a picture of what it is that would be required to manage a system of this complexity. So I guess that's one round of questions and then it gets into the other question that I think of from my finance committee side is this realistically somebody who in the restructuring of government we can take somebody from within and restructure a position where we really needing to hire and put that into the budget for the transportation enterprise fund or parking district, whichever it ends up being. Going back to towns or cities, I think it depends on how complicated their parking system is and it could be anywhere from what we have sort of now whoever wants to pick it up to part time to full time. There's running the system and basic maintenance and operations but I think what we're talking here about is implementation of new things whether it be correcting permit systems or upgrading machinery or changing fee structure. It's all initiatives and I think you all know that that takes time. You have to plan, you have to execute and then you have to tweak. So reading that very large report you see there's a lot of initiatives that have been recommended. So the way I look at it is for the first couple of years at least it could be a full time job if you all were choosing lots of initiatives. Of course that could be pared down, it could be taken slower. That's to be determined but if you notice we tied it in there not just with parking but it was also you could tie it in with transportation and I'll just flip you all back to 2015 there was a parking consulting, parking transportation plan that included some parking initiatives in it but it was far more comprehensive than that and it had suggested a lot of changes and improvements and a lot of them tie into sustainability and green and enhancing your system and transportation parking is like this, transportation is like this. So if there was any extra time for this person they could start to dive into the transportation issues that are still really haven't happened. There's a matrix you can look at in the transportation plan and you can see we're woefully about four years behind where we thought we would be with that and these things are gonna come up again. I mean we were in a transition time here I think in this town but now with the master plan being re-looked at you see how it all integrates together and a lot of these initiatives are gonna be combined and parking and transportation, a lot of it is combined. So keep all that in mind. I think it's what you all determine it to be. I of course would like to see someone who is solely dedicated to parking and transportation. Whether that's an in-house person I don't know all the qualifications and experience of the in-house people or who has I'll say free time for this. I know the planning department is, I work closely with them through planning board, they seem pretty tapped out. I know that they have a person they need to hire but even with that I don't see someone who has the bandwidth to take on this. And I also look at it as, if we segue to the next one, the funding, it is there, it's just choices. So as you look at what, how the transportation fund is spent, it's like any budget. You've gotta figure out what initiatives are the most important and where you're gonna put the money to those. Dorothy. Well I would recommend a person who is full-time dedicated to this task because just in the issue of looking at three blocks of one street, it's been like an archeological expedition in which we discover new people bring little pieces of oh this happened this year, that happened that year. It's too chaotic for somebody to pick this up to do with their left hand I think while doing other things. Just finding out and making saying this is what was done and then what happened? And following it up so there's layers and layers of really of an archeological discovery process. It's too chaotic and I just wanna put in a little plug that we're in a very transitional time in terms of how we deal with transportation but we can't just go forward which is reducing emissions and getting cars out of the place because a lot of this town is run by old people. During the snow, I went to the local historical district meeting. It was snowing, everything was shut down and I went in this crowded room and it was filled with people there. We have been a few young people there but there were a lot of Canes and I'm saying old people with Canes went out in the massive snow to do the business of the town and they need cars. So it's a very difficult time with our concern about the climate but also dealing with the people who live in the town right now. So I'm gonna follow up with sort of Andy's comment and then I think we'll move on to the benefit district cause that's the one I think we need the most help with and that is you talked about for the first few years seeing it as full time is this then something that once implementation of say the transportation plan and the parking study that we just did is done and I'm not saying it could be determined to be done at any time but once much of that's been done is this something that's then viewed as maybe going away or not? In terms of I'm putting on a finance hat I don't have on but is this sort of a temporary five, six year position to get us into implementation and then that could potentially be managed since the changes would be done? How do you foresee something like that? I don't think it will ever be done. I think as Dorothy kind of pointed out or moving into a changing time and transportation. Yes, there's pressure for people to get out of their cars whether or not they do that or if it changes more to electrical, whatever but something does have to change and I think there's gonna be more shared ride that changes things that hopefully more bus usage maybe they'll be more like senior vans bringing people around and that kind of thing and more people hopefully walking if you provide them with comfortable walking spaces then people are more comfortable to do it. So and my favorite of course, autonomous is gonna go in there in the next 10 to 15 years which will change everything again. So I don't think it ever will be done. I think there'll always be initiatives and improvements signs get old, technology changes. I think the percentage of how much they have to dedicate to parking might change but again, that's why I'm tying it to the transportation. Yeah, I would just add that one of the repeated things in the report is collection of data and analysis and I know that there were some questions about and I have the same questions about how do you have a consistent parking system when you're saying with every year every six months you change prices or you change hours of enforcement. So I think there's a little inconsistency in the report but I think the data collection and data analysis is important as there are fewer cars on the road or different transportation options. Maybe there's reduced demand of parking so maybe you decide to lower rates or change hours of enforcement. So I agree with Christine that there's in my mind sort of two phases. One is how do we make the system we have now more efficient, more user friendly, more accessible and then once we have an efficient user friendly system how do you maintain it in that way so that it doesn't slowly over time become less efficient and less useful? Pat? I'm wondering if you talked about money being shifted in the transportation phone can either of you provide some ideas of shifts that you think would be beneficial for the efficiency of transportation and parking? I won't suggest how to change it but I will say it's like any budget it's like your household budget a new expense comes in and you have to figure out well priorities what is more important or what can possibly get shifted somewhere else. It was, it's called a transportation fund so loosely I don't know if you have the budget the transportation fund in front of you, I do. We could probably pull it up. Yeah you might wanna look at that but I suggest on page, what is this thing that comes from? It's the budget. The budget, I don't usually like the budget. On page 172 if you go to that one there's a little pie chart that shows you where the money goes to I like simplification rather than all the numbers and you know 38% of it already comes goes to personnel, staff paying for them and 22% of the budget goes to their benefits so there's quite a bit there that's a lot of people. You gotta look at those people how much are they contributing to these parking or transportation needs and maybe some shifting that has to go on there. There's 18% that's other which we have to obviously dive deeper. Then there's 4% for the bike share 4% for the bid assessment 14% for intergovernmental which I'm not sure what that means either. So but just looking at that pie chart I think there's areas that could be explored and of course then the finance they have to figure out well do those things stay or do they get paid from a different fund but I can't stress enough that this money is generated from a parking system I think its first priority should be to fix the parking system and tie it into transportation and possibly beautification of downtown that ties into the whole landscape and encouraging people to use alternative modes and find parking and be safe. That's a great segue into the number two priority recommendation which is create a dedicated funding source to pay for downtown parking and transportation improvements. So can I think this question probably goes better to Jeff my mind is what does we've heard our transportation fund pays for as Christine just said the receipts are mainly parking receipts but then pays for things like buses the Valley Bike Share was pointed out the intergovernmental might actually be the PVTA assessment but what sort of what does our transportation fund pay for now if you can help us out with that Jeff and what would converting to a parking benefits district within the downtown area parking area sort of prohibit what could that pay for so what would be lost in the transportation fund payment if we converted it to just a downtown like what couldn't we use it for that we use it for now is one of my sort of top questions. Yeah, so I think that and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but I think that there's an assumption in there that may not be correct. So if it would be helpful I'll actually read the statute that creates parking benefits district and basically it says you can define a geographic area in which parking revenue is collected therein may be designated in whole or in part for use in that district through a dedicated fund with purposes listed in a different section I'll give you all the citations and if you want submit the actual statutes it may be monitored managed by by designated by the municipality just thought this was interesting including but not limited to a business improvement district or main street organization so even if we wanted to get out of the parking game we could do that as far as management and then some of the uses that were listed by statute are acquisition installation maintenance of and operation of parking meters which is already what the transportation fund does regulation of parking parking enforcement officers I think salaries of parking management personnel improvements to the public realm and transportation improvements including but not limited to operations of mass transit and facilities for biking and walking so taking those two things together I see it as saying you can create a pet parking benefits district that either takes all of the revenue and apportion some of it to within the geographic boundaries or you can I believe you can take a transportation fund and a parking benefits district and say the parking benefits district a percentage of the parking funds go into that and that's only gonna be within the geographic area the rest of it can be in the transportation fund and be used outside of it the way I read the statute and I certainly would want town attorney to look at it as well as it includes mass transit so I don't think there would be any problems with P.B.T.A. some of the other things that the current transportation fund funds or the bike share program I think that I am not clear on whether or not the transportation fund capital is I think it's clear it's used for maintenance of meter heads installation of new kiosks new equipment but whether or not it's maintenance of sidewalks and crosswalks if that's capital from the transportation fund or if that's department of public works capital budget I'm not clear on that but clearly I think transportation fund would be eligible for that I think that what I've seen as well is their beautification efforts so I would argue that things like the potential redevelopment of the North Common area could be used for transportation funds it's related to transportation it would be the walkways through is transportation related so I think that there are a number of things I don't think it's as limited as maybe originally it appears in the report and I think the key and I don't wanna speak for the parking working group but Christine said it nicely this is where the money is generated the downtown is where the majority of the money is generated and I think the parking working group felt that they were not just parking but transportation improvements that could be made in the system and this would be a way to ensure that those funds were used for those transportation improvements before I go to others it remind me do we have any meters outside of the downtown area in North Amherst Olympia Drive Olympia Drive has meters and those are town meters is that the only location yes but there are villages that could be needing that in the future yeah Dorothy I am a little confused by something you said about the North Common and I'm asking questions with no solutions being offered that the effort to make a better entrance or look towards the town hall which is something that I think is very important is in conflict with the parking lot that provides money so that and people have said from the downtown business district that they can't that those parking spots are necessary for their customers I don't have a solution but I know that the Spring Street situation of no parking has made it worse somehow if we're gonna reduce parking in that lot which would then take away some of the money you were planning to use on the paths on the North Green which would grow bigger because it would take over part of that lot some other parking has to be provided somewhere near downtown in that area I don't know where but I just see us doing things at odds all over the place allowing no parking to be provided by Spring Street but then wanting to close down a lot which provides money which would then be used for walking and it goes in a circle that's not working so that's why I do want somebody in charge of the whole thing just to look at all the aspects and try to come up with a system but I mean I keep thinking is there can there be underground parking under the North Common? I mean seriously what are we gonna do? If you have enough money you can build anything but I think if you looked at the costs of underground parking garage you'd, we have a lot of capital projects you probably need to do before that one. I'm just saying that you'd be getting rid of revenue. You might have outlined why priority number one from the working group was priority number one. Pat. I'm wondering if we had a dedicated parking district downtown. What responsibility would the business community have for helping to support customers and residents? I know I spoke to the bid director quite a while ago and she talked about not wanting to have to validate parking and things like that but if we're dedicating an area or dedicating funds to the small businesses in town which is a good idea what responsibilities do you see them having? Like validation about providing a van from a parking area or things like that. I'm not sure what you mean by dedicating funds to small businesses. Well the downtown parking situation basically focuses on small businesses in town. No there are a number of residents. Is that a misconception on my part? Yeah I mean I think that it's also the people who go to public meetings in the evenings. It's people who come to work here every day. I mean I think that there are a number of nonprofits that are Boys and Girls Club big brothers, big sisters. So I don't think that saying that this is only gonna improve the situation for businesses. I would disagree with that statement but I do think that this is a community wide issue and we all need to do what we can to improve it because I think that the businesses recognize that the way the current parking system works or doesn't work affects their bottom line and so I think that they wanna be part of the solution and perhaps validation isn't how they wanna be part of the solution but those are conversations that Christine can attest. We the downtown parking working group has tried to have those conversations about employee parking and how businesses can help the situation as well so we've certainly reached out to them and tried to work with them on that. Thank you for the clarification. I just like to add and having that parking manager they're more of a liaison between us. You have to get buy-in from the businesses. They're busy people. They're trying to make money and validating is just one more thing they have to do but there could be lots of things like special event parking for certain days when it's a lot going on in the commons, a beautiful day. There's a lot more people down there. There could be valet, cards or valet parking and there could be all different kinds and just where the employees park. All of that and it takes time and they need to feel like it's a compromise and they can buy into it and not just that they're being told this is what you have to do, that rigidity of a parking system. So but I think that will come in time. I think there's been a real lack of communication and there's been distrust that's built up. I think they want easier parking for their customers and part of that goes into the other point of signage and web information. I think when there's more communication and it's more clear and different ways people can get the information they need to figure out where they're parking, whether it's through Park Mobile or through online maps or just looking at a paper map or just their habits that they make. Even addressing the whole different options of how to park, whether the students are here or not. It's completely different parking in July than it is in September and I think everybody knows that but it's not clear in the information we provide. So I think as that improves, I think that will improve the feelings from the business community and then hopefully there'll be more communication and people can work together. And one of the things that I think to further illustrate the point is the shared parking agreements. You know the cinema in the Bank of America have a private to private agreement and the bank is closed. Cinema patrons are allowed to park in the Bank of America a lot. How do we explore how other, you know either to increase the public supply at certain hours of the day or to allow businesses to have parking in other businesses, lots that maybe are underutilized. I think is another way to explore how the business community can help solve the issue. Do we have any other questions on sort of the interrelationship between a proposed parking benefit district and our current transportation fund? Andy. I guess I'm still a lost as to what in the end the difference is in real terms because you still have a discrete fund in which money goes from parking revenues and expenses go out for transportation purposes that can include buses that serve the downtown area. Most of our bus service does go through downtown because of the nature of how our town is laid out. So still not seeing what the difference is in going to this new structure from the structure we have. I wouldn't look at it as a structure. I think it's whatever you want it to be and it needs to be. So the transportation fund exists in a certain way and yes it does cater to the whole town and I am parking benefits districts in their nature traditionally our one focused area. Maybe you could look at it as can a certain percentage of the transportation fund just be dedicated to downtown and downtown efforts of transportation or that beautification tie in. So why the consultant brings this up is because certain towns had none of this kind of fund. So this is what was the first level created. You do a parking benefits group but if you look at them in cities, I mean a city it's the whole city. So it's just what you're focused on. So you could have transportation taken out of it and then just dedicate one certain percent to parking. So it's I think this is a fight you're more of a finance committee person. I mean this is something it's a budget creation is all it is. I don't think there's any set rule or guideline to that it has to be town or downtown or you have to set firm lines and overlay or anything like that. It's just I'm looking at it more as there's needs that need to be taken care of and how do you pay for them. Okay there's some money there but it's already being delegated to other things so choices have to be made and things have to be shifted. Yeah I think what I'm gonna recommend to our to my committee members is that we asked Sonya Aldrich to come in at some point because she's the one who really understands what goes in and out of the fund and can answer some of the questions that are really being raised here. When I look at the budget book page 169 and where it lists the revenues for the transportation fund I would say all of those revenues come from the central business district because they're parking violations. Well you don't get parking violations unless you're ticketing and there probably are not many that happen in neighborhoods. Very small number. Parking fines, parking the registry fees that go with the fines, the meter fees, permit fees, garage reserve fees and it's kind of all all of the categories seem to be tying to the central business district which is why I asked the prior question. I just didn't see where either on the revenue side or the expense side that it was gaining us anything that was losing us anything either it was just a matter of going from one structure to another which is why I was trying to understand it from a structural point of view. If I could just add another thing which is the public perception of paying for parking. Right now you put your money in the meter or you use the app or the kiosk and as a resident you have no idea what those funds are being used for especially if let's say you're parking in a lot that maybe isn't well lit or doesn't feel comfortable or isn't well paved and so I think that one of the things that other communities have done with Parking Benefits District and again it doesn't have to be with the Parking Benefits District can be through the Transportation Fund but is to notify people when they pay this is what your money is being used for it's used for the beautification of downtown it's used for paving this it's used for the nice lighting in the evenings and the way finding signage so that it's easier and so I think that it makes people less or more willing to, I don't know, more willing to pay for but more happier about it, less unhappy? Right. So tying what they're paying for for seeing tangible benefits from it is also a nice feature that we didn't get to discuss so I just wanted to add that. We ready to talk about signage? Yes, Dave? I think you have to hold yours down. All right, forgot about that. I just wanted to mention that and maybe you and I can work with Lynn and Paul on this I feel as though we really kind of pun intended parked the North Common Project and so the council really hasn't gotten a full presentation on the North Common Project and it comes up from time to time like it did this morning and I'm always kind of hesitant to jump in but wanna hit the pause button and say let's keep it parked a little bit but I do think the council needs some sort of overview of that project. In the end the final design for the North Common and there were months and months of design charrettes and public meetings the net loss of parking was actually 11 spaces and I put a little asterisk on that because our design was minus 11 but we thought that with some redesign of parking around the common we could actually pick up those 11 spaces. So there is kind of this perception out there that that design lost a whole bunch of downtown parking and it really didn't. So I think you and I can perhaps talk with the president and with Lynn and Paul about that so. Sorry maybe a better example would have been Kendrick Park and passed through Kendrick in the. Well no it's interesting you brought that up Jeff because I think the design of the North Common we clearly distinguish between the parking lot using transportation fund for the parking lot but not for the improvements to the common. You kind of suggested a more creative approach to using transportation funds for sidewalks and other uses and I think that's where having Sonya come in and talk to us about that might be instructive. So signage. So some of the questions we had were what's you know there's wayfinding signs sort of in progress. We've got some sort of design going on where sort of what's the status of that but one of the things that I have written down on what we'd like to have is is it benefit is signage beneficially done piecemeal and so I think that's an update of where we are with signage what's in plan what that would do is that sort of meeting goal number three or priority number three which was high visibility and consistent signage in key locations and update the parking web page to be more user friendly is the current sort of status and plan for wayfinding does that fit into this priority number three or is it kind of separate and could you do priority number three piecemeal and still be beneficial or would you have to do it all at once? I don't know whether you guys can answer those questions at all but. I think there's lots of pieces to it. There's wayfinding downtown. There's the actual signage for lots. We have lots that we don't even all agree on what it's called going back to your lot. Is it the main street lot, town common lot, town hall lot and it's inconsistent all over the place so that needs to be determined and signage for that. Meter signage, how to pay then don't forget we do have neighborhoods around town that like my own neighborhood which is north of campus is a no parking Monday through Friday eight to five at which violations do occur and money is earned from that so they are technically part of the parking system and the signs on the street most of them have been there since the 50s so they're hard to read so my point is that could be a whole project just in itself like here's a neighborhood it needs new signage so I think there's more signage needs then and I don't want to get into the weeds too much but I think it's not piecemeal I think it's projects as different phases and different sectors and I think for the most part all of the signage needs to be redone. Dorothy. Okay, one of the things that excited me when I went to the parking study meetings was an area of technology which I am not going to be using but which I think everybody else will be which is using your phone and a parking app and maps so when you talk about signs one of the things he said was that there's no consistency I mean I'd hate to see a bunch of lovely real signs made out of materials put around that are not matching in names to the whole little world on your phone so they have to be done together and that's how people will park I think in the future so it's a really comprehensive and difficult thing I just so I don't want to committee making signs if it's not coordinating with the app. So if I could just echo a couple of things that Christine said and put a finer point on it I see two major for the signage two major things one is lots aside from the main street lot and the spring street lot you can't really see the lots from any major public way in town you can't see what we're calling the pleasant street lot which is the CVS lot the town owned portion of the CVS lot you can't see boltwood I was driving into work this morning and we have two signs towards the pleasant street lot is it pleasant or prosperous? See I don't know I don't know I don't know CVS lot even though it's you know around the little alleyway they're probably two or three feet tall and they're I'd say five years old now and they're starting to get a little faded I don't think there's anything coming north on pleasant street on the right side to tell you to take that left and I think boltwood we have a larger sign they're banners though they're not metallic I don't know how they look at night if they're reflective so I think that for visitors it's really hard to find parking in Amherst and especially when those two lots sort of by the common are full that people don't know where to go so I think that's one of and then the other complaint that we have heard about the system is I have to literally get out of my car to check the park mobile zone to and then to get in and if it's cold or if it's raining you know I'm already out of my car I have to go to the kiosk or I have to go to the meter head I might as well put a coin in the meter or the kiosk so I think that's the other thing and those can be taken absolutely distinctly and one after the other but I think those two things are just sort of in my mind and I have not done the research for how expensive it is but I think it's short dollars for a big gain making it really much more convenient for people to at least go oh there's a parking lot back there let me check it out so that's kind of where I would focus and then the website is just hey we have free parking the next three I think three Saturdays now how do we promote that better yes it's a splash on the front of the web page as well but you know do we do some I think the bid does it the chamber does it how do we also get other businesses to let people know so I think that being more clear on the website and I think we also have a lot of disparate web pages like the senior parking permit is over here and maybe it's not to Dorothy's point about making sure that everything is consistent I think we call the lots different things on different pages and so just making sure and again this is who is responsible for making sure that the web page maybe the senior center deals with the senior permit on their website and the planners or myself deal with the other parking pages or the collector's office and so having somebody whose responsibility it is to say oh let's make sure that all these places are talking about lots in the same way or have the correct price or hours of enforcement or maps I think is important so that people don't get confused and frustrated because the other thing we learned if we didn't know that parking is a very emotional experience for a lot of people. Andy. Yeah, I just have one other point to make because I know we need to draw this to a close and just to pick up on something Christine that you said earlier. I really agree that the parking system and the transportation system as a whole are very strongly linked and the fact that the Transportation Advisory Committee has not dealt into parking sort of separates the two out a little bit. One example that I've often thought about and that Jeff mentioned in his comments was how few people know about the whatever lot we want to call it we call it the CVS Lot for ease. It is in the course of the complaints of the cinema about their patrons not being able to easily get parking. It has always struck me that if the Transportation Advisory Committee would consider reversing the direction of the one way on North Prospect and Halleck Streets that it would enable us to have a big parking this way sign that goes pretty much from where the cinema is in the library north towards that lot and that lot would become a lot more visible just because of that reversal but that's both a combination of transportation and parking issues so I really appreciate you bringing that up. Steve. So first an anecdote so during the snow emergency I was reading one of the notices and said that the places you can park and the lower level of the garage but then it said the North Pleasant parking lot the rows closest to the church so first I had to think figure out where's the difference between North Pleasant and East Pleasant so I figured that out but the other thing I was gonna say is that I don't know if this has come up but so my daughter lives in a town in New Hampshire that as you go into the town they have signs up it's like going into an airport short term parking, two hour parking take a left, four hour parking take a right, long term parking take two rights or whatever and I've always found that sort of incredibly useful but we don't have anything like that coming into the corridor but that might be and so many things are changing like the app is more and more people use that in the cities already it will actually tell you where there's open spots so over the next five years this is all gonna change and improve but wouldn't it be great if Amherst was poised to take advantage of these technologies and lessons learned from other communities and make the parking better and easier to find I think we're gonna close this discussion because we have some others to do thank you so much for coming I wrote on my for next meeting that we'll as a committee discuss what we would want in the report back to the town council report so we'll continue this this is not the end of it you guys are welcome to come but it'll be I think more of a discussion in or amongst the committee itself next time Christine I would hope you might be able to stay for the next part of our meeting as putting on your other hat your planning board chair hat but before I actually move to that I did promise public comment on this portion of the meeting is there any public comment I'm seeing a shake of the head from the one public in here so we will not take public yep just had one one thing dad to plug the man of the parking person again just I never go back to Andy in the report the consultants report in one of the appendices in the back there is a job description and it's for Charlottesville, Virginia but if you all look at the actual the duties it's pretty much what we would be looking for so that might help when you're trying to parameterize this as part time or full time go back and look at that and it will help you go oh yeah thank you so much thank you Jeff thank you I know we have a big copy I think we can print that out I think it's a separate appendix so I think we've got a it's in the packet for today yeah so the next item on our agenda and this is why I asked Christine she might be interested in this one as planning board chair is the master plan continue discussion and possible vote on a process for updating and adopting in accordance with the charter that was referred to us on November 18th I drafted and in our packets today in at the request of everyone I drafted a memo to you guys to the CRC that has a recommendation on the process for updating and adopting the master plan and what I will do is quickly go through that sort of seven step process so the people in the audience can hear what that is the memo should be online as far as I know but but I will go through it not read the whole thing the process would the process that I am proposing is that the first one is the council delay adopting the master plan until after it is updated it's sort of where we sort of got to last meeting and the second item would then be that the council requests the town manager and the planning board per sec charter section 9.8 C to review the master plan to determine revisions amendments and additions necessary and obvious that are necessary and obvious and that the planning board attempt to propose those revisions and vote to approve them within six months and then there's a whole description of what that kind of means what we were thinking that means to help the council understand potentially what that means but also the planning board and since we've got the planning board share here I'll summarize some of it necessary and obvious where that is not a you have to do things or this is what you're doing it's a very general item that we would ask that the planning board hold at least one working session in accordance with the charter but we would not expect the public process to be as extensive as the process that led to the original 2010 master plan that necessary and obvious is that we say we've heard the staff has been compiling potential options for that but we recognizing that it's entirely within the planning board's purview to determine what those would be and what changes they would want to see since the master plan sits with them our thought thinking of what necessary and obvious means would be revisions to reflect the change in the form of government so if it's talking about select board we should probably update that since we don't have a select board anymore the town adoption of plans as Christine actually mentioned in our earlier discussion we now have a transportation plan maybe we can incorporate some of those new plans into the master plan document the adoption of plans initiative goals like the transportation plan climate council climate action goals flood mapping updating that's in process now open space recreation plan that have occurred in the last decade and changes in town priorities since the approval of the master plan is sort of what we're seeing as we discussed necessary and obvious the third process item of the process during the planning board's discussion the town council requests that they regularly inform the CRC of its work with the planning board chair and CRC chair deciding how best to accomplish that request so that was my I don't know what it gonna look like but maybe we configure something out as this process goes forward and then it would be CRC's job through reports to the council to keep the council informed on the progress so it would go that way and the fourth item in this process that I propose is once the planning board approves the updated master plan they submit to the town manager and then the town manager submits to the council that's all in accordance with what the charter outlines so that's just following that charter process and then the fifth one is once the council receives the updated and approved master plan they hold a public hearing which is also in accordance with the charter and then they refer to the CRC and then after the public hearing CRC reviews it in accordance with its charge determines whether to recommend adoption and it accomplishes that review within 45 days preferably sooner and then the last item is upon recommendation of CRC council votes to adopt with or without amendments per again the charter so that's sort of the process I came up with based on our discussion two weeks ago obviously we're here to discuss what that looks like we do have the planning board chair here so I'm hoping she's willing to I'm not sure you've seen this document I think I had it requested sent to the whole planning board as a draft which I put in this document I'm hoping it got to you and so if we could I'd love to hear your thoughts too before we adopt something and at this time I'll also mention that the planning board has asked myself as chair to show up to the December 18th planning board meeting and I have agreed to do that sort of for a similar discussion going the other direction as in front and so we'll discuss whether it's just me or whether we wanna call a full CRC meeting that night too if others are interested after we go through this meeting but yeah we're starting to figure out how to work together so thoughts from the council and then maybe we can hear from Christine too yes Dorothy what about necessary obvious and desirable cause I don't think we're just going through and cutting out select board and putting in town council there has been some movement to that there were some areas where we wanted a few more changes and I suppose you could kind of say that under changing town priorities it was kind of like vaguely referred to but I just don't wanna have this thing be just changing a few words of language to reflect the change of government and being in consonance with the master plan I mean with the charter Andy and then Steve well actually Steve than Andy because Steve I know has to leave soon so let me just say that I like the plan that Mandy Joe has laid out and I do think it's a fine line to figure out what's sort of necessary and obvious or whatever the wording is I get a little just because I'm following up on Dorothy but I get a little hesitant about desirable because desirable becomes basically everything and so I'm not sure that there are parts and there might be parts to it that are so obviously off that we can that those can be fixed but I would hesitate to get too much into the kind of qualitative aspects of it but even the review where we're looking at the select board and I haven't studied those but it becomes almost like the bylaw review so do we mean select board as the executive body do we mean select board as the legislative representatives of the legislative body but I think that that's a very worthwhile I would support that exercise and the qualitative part I am hesitant about. Andy. Yeah, I glad you recognized Steve first because he raised some of the points that I was going to raise and I think that the term needs to be whatever we use needs to be understood very clearly because the questions like doing something with climate action and trying to incorporate climate action better into the plan may be more than just necessary and obvious because it involves judgment and is to what exactly it is that you're putting into it as opposed to what we did with the bylaws of just trying to change wordings and make the select board disappear forever which I feel it has already but anyway, that's one just generally on that comment I really appreciate your work, Mandy. I think that it is a tremendous effort. I have some suggestions to a number of different areas but as far as the big construct, I agree and I can go through whenever you think it's appropriate for other thoughts that I have on specific sections. Let's hold off on that till later in this discussion. Pat. I'm working on the bylaw review committee and the initial charge was to look, remove select board and make those kinds of transitional obvious changes but as we worked with the document and we worked with the bylaws we found things that we wanted to change and we kept, we documented that and so when the council gets the report there's gonna be, we think we need to look at these and that's what I assume and trust that the planning board would be doing so that the document is a living document and really puts forward the thinking of the planning board at that time. I like what you've done Mandy Jo and I think we need to be careful of words like desirable because we might not all agree on what's desirable. Thank you. Christine, do you have any thoughts on this as planning board chair? I like the memo very much. I think you've nailed, we're trying to funnel down and get a specific framework how we're gonna improve this and update this document. It's been in the planning board's packet for this week. We have a meeting tonight at seven o'clock so we'll be talking about that and preparing I am unsure I'll check with the director of planning Chris Bestrup whether I know there is the town staff has been compiling a list of potential revisions and I do, we have not actually seen those yet so that will be helpful. I'm hoping that some of the suggestions that have come from your group and other groups will be compiled within that and it is my assumption that we will be going through that is the members so that we're ready for the 18th when you come so that we can really start nailing down a plan and a scope of how wide or not it's gonna go. I think necessary and obvious even that can be subjective even more than desirable. I think part of it is justifiable and that's I liked your last paragraph on the first page where you actually pull out different reports and plans and I think that's the first way to look at it is what has changed by actual guidelines or whatever goals that the town has taken on obviously the climate and sustainability is a big one and again then it's gonna be with the planning board trying to figure out at that point okay how long does this need to take and again Chris Bestrup would be a key person in this. Are they doing it as staff and house? Do they have to hire a consultant or for parts of it? I think then there's a firm timeline I do like your suggestion of six months I hope it's six months from when it actually starts and not from now but that could be firmed up and there would actually be an actual work timeline so hopefully by January we could really nail this all down and get going. So I'll clarify the six months the six months would not be from the day of this memo it would be from the time the council because we actually we would send some subset of this memo is sort of my thinking to the council it would go on a council agenda and then presumably six months from when the council does number two the council requests the manager so that would probably be at this rate sometime in January given our council meeting schedule so no not from today or from whenever this was written November 22nd that's my that six months would be from when the council says yes we take CRC's recommendation and do you think that timeline might be? It might be I mean what I think is the scope of work right now I think but like I said I'm not the one who's gonna have to actually go and do the actual work so that's where Chris Baster would be critical and how she plans on getting it done but I think we all know that we don't want this to drag out for a long time and become a bigger effort we don't want to rewrite the master plan there's so many other initiatives we've got bylaws and zoning that needs to be changed too so the planning board is considering its own workload for the next year. So what do we as a council committee right now want to do with this memo and Andy said he's got some recommended changes that we can discuss I didn't when I was writing this I obviously addressed it to the committee so I don't foresee this being the memo necessarily we vote on even though I said possible vote I foresee the process sort of the second set of numbers the chair proposes the following process that that's the section we kind of say that's the process we're recommending the council adopt that's what we're forwarding onto the council not the memo as a whole do we believe we're ready now do we want to wait until the planning board discusses it too because they may at tonight's meeting have recommendations for us that I think I'd be very interested to hear I don't know about the rest of the committee but do we want to wait till the 18th when I've been invited to go do we want to attempt to maybe include everyone I'd have to ask the planning board if they want the five of us there to potentially if people are willing to create a CRC meeting that night too what does our committee see as the next step in this process and getting it to the council Steve so my apologies because I do have to go but for what it's worth I support because we're only advisory to the town council I would support a version of your memo to go to the town council you know a description of our proposed process Pat looks like she wants to say something not really but I agree with Steve and I would like to hear some of what Andy is thinking Andy Okay I'm going to try and do this fairly quickly because I don't want to delve into discussion in great depth but I'll give you some examples of things that I thought about at the in point two in the last paragraph the first of the point two there's a lot in there that ties to other committees and I think that we at least have to give some consideration for example on climate action whether there should be some explicit reference to when ECAC is consulted or for the open space and recreation plan at what point the LSE commission might be consulted so that's one and I can give you a copy of this so to Andy when we talk about what things what documents have been developed since the last master plan they're really quite extensive we know it just from housing with the housing market study and the housing production plan those are fairly significant do we make reference to them as a updating without is this updating without changing and if so is that part of an update that's a judgment called somebody's gotta make going down to then just quickly on point six and seven on point six I would have said 45 days of referral but preferably sooner I would take out but preferably sooner and say unless extended by the council because I think that that still hammers the 45 days but gives the process a little bit more clarity the last one is that we do have something that we have to really work out with the planning board which is why I'm glad the planning board chair is still here for this comment and that is that the charter has it set up as you point out 9.8B that the council gets the recommendation which it can adopt with or without amendments and that seems sort of difficult because having the council amended without consulting and having a process involving the planning board seems that it was something that we need to clarify I put in just wrote down as I was reading this a possible sentence which was if amendments are proposed by the council a final vote will not take place until the earlier of 30 days thereafter or vote of the planning board to recommend the proposed amendment I would want to at least have some dialogue about whether that sort of a provision that says if the council decides at the last stage that it wants to consider an amendment that it give a pause to allow the planning board to have a dialogue about it. I see a nod from Pat with that makes sense I see a very big nod from Christine saying that makes sense yeah and you know having been on the charter commission we put that in there and then when I was writing this theory in writing a document that says other people will have to apply and abide by it then trying to abide by it you're like well it has to go by the planning board if we amend it kind of has to go back and so I also would nod and say some sort of addition to that sentence that says if the town council's going to put amendments in we kind of redo this process almost you know before we vote it goes back to the planning board for approval of those amendments or disapproval of those amendments I guess you could have competing master plans one that the planning boards approved and one that the councils adopted and that would be strange but you technically under the charter I guess could but yeah I think we need to then based on that I think Dorothy was also nodding that makes sense right we'll work on a sentence like that. Do I hear sort of a consensus that we want to hear what the planning board thinks of this proposal before we would take any vote yeah okay Christine. We'll be looking at it tonight so we could get back to you in a couple days I'm sure with the memo of what our thoughts are. That sounds good so I'll stick this on next time's agenda too and maybe I'll come up with an actual document we could vote on that would get forwarded instead of just this memo come up with pull those seven or eight seven items out as the sort of memo that we'd forward on to the town council. While I've got you here that takes us through our talking about this memo which brings us to the December 18th planning board meeting attendance I was requested to be there as chair of this committee. I'm not exactly sure what the planning board intends is the scope of that discussion so I haven't explored it yet we have the Thanksgiving holiday but one of the questions I would have for the planning board is more than just me welcome is this something that if the entire CRC where multiple members want to be there for a discussion could that happen and is that something that the planning board would welcome or not because I don't know what your intention for the scope of this discussion is so. Of course you're all welcome to come everyone's welcome to come but we can I can get back to you again after tonight's meeting I want to hear from Chris Bestrup and where they're at with their lists you know it looks like this kind of two lists the list of potential revisions that they've known that they've been collecting but also the list of all the documents and plans and guidelines that have gone through since that time over the last like nine years you know like it says here adoption of plans well that's like complete streets plan right that obviously would affect a master plan that kind of methodology and thought so let me see where she's at that and if she can have all that ready if everything can be ready and disseminated to all of us by the 18th then maybe it would be really great to have a dialogue to start nailing down scope and that kind of thing so I'll let you know after tonight. Okay and the intent of that discussion right now is sort of to discuss more of what the revisions would entail like sort of what sections or is it just process similar to what this memo is? On the 18th I would hope that Chris Bestrup who again is responsible for actually doing the work she will have a better idea of whether it's her staff that will be doing it whether she'll have a new person on board when you know she's looking to she's missing a person right now whether she needs to get a consultant what have you but she would have a better idea of scope and how long it's gonna take so I really wanna get her feedback I think that's like the critical link right now who's gonna do it and what kind of comprehensive list is going right now so she might be able to be ready on the 18th to articulate that and it would make sense to do it to the planning board and to CRC at the same time to get everybody on the same page but maybe she needs till January I don't know so I will get back to you Yeah let's keep in touch with that or Chris will she might reach out to you The planning board meeting is at 7 p.m. on the 18th we have a meeting scheduled for the morning I intend to hold that meeting in the morning even if we hold an evening meeting too or do we have a quorum available if that is what the planning board wants for attending a 7 p.m. meeting on the 18th it looks like I see a knob that we would have a quorum so if that is what the planning board is thinking I will notice it also as a CRC meeting but I'm going to go with the guidance from the planning board on since it is their meeting on what they want but we will still have a meeting in the morning probably to deal with other stuff I will look at our council schedule to see whether if we could somehow figure out a way to potentially depending on what that meeting looks like vote on the council thing after that meeting but still be able to get it on the council agenda for the first meeting in January if we have space for the first meeting in January because I don't think neither board I'm hearing wants to hold it up much longer than January at this point so we'll see I'll work with the president and all and figure out when we would be able to put it on this meeting for that but I know we have a lot of stuff on our CRC agenda and more keeps coming so yes Christine also try to nail down when on the 18th I know we already have stuff packed in there probably some hearings so it might be closer to like eight o'clock or something for you all but I will try to get a specific time I will touch base then together public comment is over but I am seeing a hand from another member of the planning board that is in the audience so come on up Janet at our last planning board meeting we heard that the CRC is also going to be asking the planning board to start on a kind of complete overhaul of the zoning boy law is that where did I mean or that discussion has been taking place and I was wanting for some clarification about if that's also the ask for the following the coming year and who's asking so that was part of a referral to this committee from the council I as chair of this committee I'm trying to get the master plan section off our plate and to you guys and get that process settled and set sort of set down which sounds like we might be able to do by January with where Christine as chair of planning board is and where you guys planning board are on what that might look like once that's done I will put the zoning process and probably we'll probably follow a very similar method from our point of view of proposing a process for that working with the chair so that's going to be simultaneous like working on both at the same time or concurrently one after another we're not totally sure yet Christine so Ms. McGowan doesn't know this but I've met with Chris Vestrup and Rob Moro and they're working together trying to kind of similar to what you're saying here to find the scope and just figure out what this is going to entail is it and what level is it because there's scope of what I'm sorry of the changes to the bylaw to the zoning bylaw determined at all Rob Moro has a lot of little fixes that he would like that impact his world Chris has a list of things that she knows she would like and then of course it could expand and there's lots of things to change but I think it's about scope again how big, how long, how fast I know this they would like to have something redone within a year so I would assume that's sort of like a little overlap but mostly after the master plan so that's coming from Christine Brestrup and Rob Moro not from the council I'm just trying to clarify who's saying what they would do the work so they're just trying to figure out different levels if we had to do this much if we had to do more and try not to do everything they have to figure out resources so they have to figure out the biggest thing is do they have the staff and how much could the staff take on because they already know how busy their staff is and what kind of available time they will have at least over the next six months or when Chris is also putting in this master plan thing so then it also comes to do you have to hire a consultant or get some extra help or source out which they would then have to also that the council has to get involved in that because there'd be funds or the town manager are their funds available so they're just trying to figure out there's this request floating around there's a desire to clean up and fix the bylaws and to what level that's gonna happen that's still to be determined because you all would weigh in on that and other groups I'm sure the planning board would weigh in a bit on that they're just trying to figure out resources I don't know if the assistant town manager couldn't figure it out better than me I'll add to it from the CRC point of view as chair that was also part of this referral I don't have the language for that part directly in front of me right now and so what the council and this committee needs to was tasked with is again coming up with a process but the process is more not potentially exactly what amendments we wanna see and saying work on that it might include some of that but as you've heard from councillors when we were discussing parking and even the master plan desirable and what we want there's probably 13 different opinions so there might not be a list from the council coming forward with this is what we want or this but we might be able to agree with something a list of changes to the zoning bylaw that says we want you guys to work on this there may or there may not be because we may not have the same desires but the concern and what we as CRC really need to figure out is how we will work with the planning board when those changes start discussion in the planning board whatever changes because the council has voted the council now must hold a hearing on all zoning bylaw changes which is different than the previous government where only the planning board held a hearing in this form of government both the planning board and the council must hold public hearings and the council has voted to recommend that those hearings be held jointly at the same time so we're not holding two separate ones on two separate days so and they've also recommended that those hearings be held in this committee instead of at the full council and so one of the things that this process we have to work out and work with the planning board with is how are we going to do that I think my guess would be that this committee wants some idea of what those changes are before it goes into those hearings instead of just after or at the day of the hearing so it's more what's referred to this committee right now on zoning is is the process for getting through and making changes to the zoning bylaw not exactly what those changes will be so I understand you're talking about like when there's a proposed zoning change but is the council asking the planning board to do a revision overhaul of the zoning bylaw and I would if the answer is yes I would say I think it would be important to think about the master plan updating or revision and that as simultaneously and sort of saying oh let's do this in six months and let's do that in the following six months I think that you should talk to the planning board about the whole load and how that would work so it does and it doesn't the council has not asked for that yet that does not mean it will not it's sitting in this committee to come up with not just a plan for when zoning changes happen but potentially whether we want an extensive one and would recommend to the council for an extensive one or not no one in the council is asking for overhaul the zoning bylaw or the CRC is not so not yet we haven't had that discussion it's part of what's been referred to us is there any talk in the town of doing that other than with Chris and Robora yes there is and who is that there has been with the president of the council myself as chair of CRC the town manager the planning department so those people see a need for that at recommendation of planning department yeah but there's been no discussion as to what that overhaul would look you know exactly what would be changed does that make sense so no specifics of this one would be changed to look like this so which is why I can't get into specifics because it's just been we've heard from the planning department that there's a potential for a large amount of changes and maybe they can be done all at once but the town council has not said that's exactly what we want yet they referred to this committee to have that discussion within the council Christine is working towards getting that discussion within the planning board and then it's also a discussion between the two groups as we in this new form of government figure out how to work together because it is different than in the past so I guess I would just say that as you look at the timeline for the master plan update or revision that also we put that on the plate because I think those things would affect each other very deeply because and you know just it's been hard to understand who's asking for this revision or why or what the big goals of that were so just just that's all just I can clarify a little it's been asked for for years but we haven't been in a place the town hasn't logistically been in a place to be able to act on it you know we have you know town meeting was ending and then we had elections and get you all on board and you have lots to do and so it has been years so it's just finally coming up to speed and it does make total sense you'd want to get you want to update your master plan tighten it up a little bit before you really come up with that final list of what zoning changes need to be done and just as another background thing it is a very common occurrence around the Commonwealth for zoning bylaws to be updated this way very often towns do do every like twenty year full suite cleanup because things change all these initiatives we're talking about every time there's a new plan that's adopted this all brings on changes that aren't often tweaked and and optimized in zoning bylaw so now could be a good time we're looking at all this we're all trying to come up to speed and as much as we all love parking we're going to love zoning even more yeah thanks you're welcome any other questions about December 18th and all? so this was a great discussion I think a lot of things were covered I just think maybe as we think about the agenda Christine for the planning board the questions that Jenna raised might be important to to really have all the planning board here kind of how is this going to roll out and and I think Mandy you referred to perhaps CRC working on a memo similar to the one for master plan for zoning I will say that I've had a lot of conversations with my staff as as you mentioned Christine we are looking at how are we going to apply resources to both the master plan update and potential zoning rewrite and I think what I've heard for years and and had some pretty uh... in-depth conversation in the last six months with my staff Christine and Rob in particular is that there is really uh... a strong feeling that we need to rewrite things it's quite extensively in in the bylaw so uh... having Rob more be uh... an integral part of that team makes perfect sense to us uh... that's not always the case having a building commissioner but in fact Rob is uh... very experienced uh... in zoning uh... he has gone through a rewrite process in at least two other communities so bringing his knowledge expertise and experience to this process makes perfect sense so while I think Chris will be the uh... lead on the master plan uh... working probably with Nate Malloy it would be the team of our planning director and our building commissioner working with the planning board on whatever comes out of this discussion of of bylaw uh... revisions uh... and again I think we'll hear more about that on the eighteenth but I think it'd be good to do got a master plan and and the zoning piece on the eighteenth if we could have that discussion with the planning board I think the workload that's good and the word concurrent is kind of where we're at and how we how we load that both recognizing the planning boards uh... bandwidth as well as staff that'll be the key piece there how do we do that we do uh... just to clarify we do already have funding available for bringing in consultants for the zoning whether that's enough is a question we're looking at uh... but we'll definitely be bringing in some outside expertise depending on what is decided on the on the zoning uh... work any other comments dorthy I'm pleased to hear the uh... clarification because it wasn't clear to me I think this would be very exciting and I think that uh... we can do it and have to do it but it's going to be a really big job thank you for being here I appreciate you taking the time to come to yet another meeting yes yes and I think we're as a committee looking forward to working with the planning board our co-charges that brings us to the twenty twenty CRC meeting schedule I have put in the packet a draft meeting schedule based on the times people said they are committee members said they could be available uh... obviously this is based on the committee's makeup right now and so I'm going to just put out there on video and for prosperity that if the committees make up changes whatever we adopt today could change uh... based on schedules changing people personnel changing all sorts of things but we would like to be able to put something out there uh... it is december we don't have anything scheduled for january or beyond yet and so for the public to be able to plan at least until things happen for us to be able to plan we should adopt something and so the only time that and i think four individuals filled it out the last time i looked in the only time that those four individuals highlighted together was nine to ten thirty on wednesday mornings uh... with an in nine to ten thirty with an indication that one member who did not highlight the eight thirty to nine period could show up at eight thirty would really like to not uh... but could if necessary uh... and so despite three of us going into a meeting schedule that will be ten thirty to noon i did uh... put in this schedule does propose the meetings on wednesday mornings at eight thirty to ten thirty on the same days that the governance committee meets ten thirty to noon which is a large hall for the three of us that do do consecutive meetings but it is what it is when that's the only time everyone can meet yes pat the opposite uh... one member of this committee said that that was not possible due to the work schedule that it was much better to have them the same and so for work schedules yes so so i apologize for the three members that will be doing four hours of meetings in a row every other week uh... like i said it is what it is we're trying to get the work done we'll see what we can do about canceling some if we can catch up on our referrals and not have to meet with every other week but thoughts on the schedule as proposed and did i miss any holidays did i miss things like that uh... stuff like that i know there are scheduled for two meetings throughout the summer again as chair i would hope that we might be able to cancel some of those if we can get caught up on work and figure out a way not to have to meet as frequently as possible it's better to put them in the schedule now and block out the time dorthy when is the retreat the crc retreat we've set the date for let me look it up it's i think the first monday in february but let me find it in a calendar i think is that february third yes so the crc hopes to hold a retreat on the room is reserved it is in this room at this point february third which is a monday night six thirty to nine thirty at this time is the scheduled time uh... i will come up for the next meeting i will have a proposed draft agenda for our december meeting and on what we might discuss at that meeting yes this may not matter to you it is the day of the iowa caucus i know i would really kind of probably be home at my tv on that night that's a big deal we can do live updates while we're in the meeting the retreat how's that we'll take regular updates regular breaks to update the iowa caucus numbers so so if i don't hear any recommended i guess should we put the retreat date onto this calendar as a special meeting of the so i will add that retreat date onto the calendar uh... and i'll put it is not a regular meeting as a special meeting with that one revision do i hear a motion to adopt the twenty twenty uh... community resources committee meeting schedule i guess amended i so moved do i hear a second before we discuss changes can i get a second or do we want changes before we get the second and are you recommending a change uh... i was just looking at she said just looking at uh... the jewish holiday schedule uh... didn't know if you had i attempted to but help me out because i don't know all the major jewish holidays so i could do some i was just checking it think i don't see any but i uh... i just wanted to make sure that you did well yeah my calendar has on wednesday the eight of april Passover begins but i don't think that should make a difference because i believe that means with the way the calendar is going now that it begins that evening and we meet early in the morning so that probably should be okay let me see what my calendar says and that was april i think meeting on a monday and a wednesday morning so i think it really begins in the evening because my calendar shows i guess it was in hebrew which is why i didn't get that that was Passover sock one sorry it would it has a one listed for the ninth and a two for the tenth and a three for the eleventh which means probably the eighth in the evening is when it's starting not the seventh in the evening so is it okay then to still meet in the morning then i think so okay any other questions andy thank you for translating the Hebrew for me now i know no i hadn't done it until just now and i think i didn't spot anything that was concerned but i just wanted to make sure somebody else had checked obviously their individual dates where we might be know that we have vacations for some of the indicated dates but i'm assuming that that was not the intent that we know that that's always going to occur because i checked off two dates and of the list that i know i won't be here but so be it okay so we have the motion to adopt as amended which is to the amendment is to add the retreat date onto the calendar for everyone to be able to see do i have a second pat seconds any more discussion seeing none all those in favor say i and raise your hand hi we've got a four to zero with one absent adoption that then brings us to believe uh... presentations there are none minutes we have two sets of minutes to adopt in the packet there are revisions to those minutes so that that should be the document we're looking at we'll start with november six twenty nineteen with the revisions of eleven twenty two i thought you were raising your hand sorry the revisions to that were to just put in some of the agenda items that there weren't any so that it acknowledges that we had public comment on the agenda but there was none repeating the motion so that it's clear that it was adopted and then for this one adding the names and for the presentation of the next steps on smart growth in forty are and adding the counselor questions on into it and then and fixing that the adjournment i turned these meetings without a vote i just declare them adjourned so just fixing that november six that revisions are listed as eleven twenty two would be the document any other revisions besides the ones presented one thing i didn't understand and i just uh... pointing at this language that i found confusing was uh... on the top of that i believe the second page the words are and on the impact on public transit on the utility of housing accessibility it is the first paragraph on the second page discussion we could get rid of the words i think the on is supposed to be of so on the impact of public transit on housing accessibility get rid of utility of does that make more sense than yes so those changes will also be made any other recommended changes to this one seeing none of take a motion for the november six minutes to be adopted amended some move and a second any more discussion all those in favor adopting the november six minutes as amended raise your hand that is four zero vote with one absent i have a minor comment uh... when you look at the packet it has to date but when you print it out the dates not on it on the print out of the men minutes of them when you to get it the dates there on the on the internet but on the document itself the dates not there so we will add the date minutes of certain meeting and obviously that minutes approved on and so our next set of minutes is the november one-tenth minutes there is a revision of november twenty second to the video web address we obviously have to find the web address if it's on the web will add the web address to it will add others when has the november twenty twenty nineteen eight thirty a m minutes so this one does listed the second line so it must have just been missed the revisions on this one would just to add where the agenda items were what you know the boulds what agenda item they were just for reference for people trying to compare and then some cleaning up of some language of did stuff i think i think that's most of the amendments on this any other requested amendments andy yeah i just uh... i think some problems because i did my notes in the wrong version but in number five yep first paragraph uh... last line uh... the enterprise capitalized also currently the buses fall under the same enterprise this is downtown parking separate funding source first paragraph yes one that starts on council is the last sentence uh... same enterprise center center i'm sorry it was it should be capitalized because enterprise fund is an actual entity it's enterprise from that enterprise center any other recommended changes have to go back and uh... public comment in the last sentence uh... words quoting me i think that i really said something like the process should include professional support process of direction for the planning it seemed like but i really was intending was should include professional or committee support for the planning board in the town council so after after the word direction and before the word for you would add no i would uh... i would just take out of direction and say after the word process say should include professional or committee support for the planning board and town council any other see none i'll take a motion to adopt the november twentieth twenty nineteen minutes as amended do i hear a motion any second thank you pat and any more discussion all those in favor of adopting the november twentieth twenty nineteen minutes as amended raise your hand and say hi hi we get three any nays i see no nose any abstentions we have one abstention which is pat and we have one absent and with that they are passed we will get them on the website quickly as we can i will get them to our clerk to do that with that are there any announcements see no announcements there are no items i did not anticipate forty eight hours in advance which means i'm going to declare this meeting adjourned at ten twenty one a on the whatever day it is december fourth thank you all