 of the day and it is my privilege to introduce you to these two ladies Emma and Ashlyn. They are members of the community design team in Fedora and as has been mentioned in other sessions the Fedora design team relies a lot on pen pot as a tool. So Emma and Ashlyn are going to walk you through how exactly we've been using it for one of the projects that they both work on which is the Fedora websites revamp. So I will hand it over to you Emma. Lovely thanks for that yeah so our talk is called mockups and motions and how the Fedora designers create with pen pot which I think is a very clever name that Ashlyn came up with. So yeah we'll get into it then. So first of all who are we? I'll let Ashlyn introduce herself first. Okay my mic's on awesome. So I'm a web developer and UI UX designer. I work with Fedora websites and apps as well as the Fedora design team. So I'm in a really cool place at being able to bridge between both our development workflow as well as our design workflow. And yeah it's just a really exciting thing to be able to see this project go from the mock-up phase before we had any code laid down to getting our code infrastructure figured out and now we're almost ready for deployment. It's just been great. How about you Emma? Yeah so I'm part of the floor design committee and Red Hat's community design team. So I started with the community platform engineering team here in Ireland about a year and a half ago and I got involved with the design team then around a year ago and that's when I would have got involved with the web and apps team as well with the revamp project. So I mainly do the mock-ups for the websites and then I pass them over then to the developers. That would be kind of my role in that project. Yeah so Ashlyn's going to go through then and the next slide sorry. All right Fedora websites 3.0 it has nothing to do with NFTs. It's all about revamping the face of Fedora from the ground up. So Fedora websites have a little bit of history on that. There's been a few iterations of Fedora's websites over the many years the project's been around and when we're coming time for this new revamp which was determined that we needed to do we needed to update our infrastructure we needed to update our designs and yeah we just have a growing user base and we needed to be able to be accessible and accommodating of everybody's needs and a part of that was looking at what our teams needs are and being able to make sure that our site infrastructure is modern and that being able to get involved with it being able to contribute whether you are a technical person or not very technical that you'd be able to find a place in this. So a lot of what this meant was that we needed to figure out our tools we needed and this is both our design and our development tools because we needed to start testing out how our users are going to be able to navigate how they're going to be able to move around things so we needed a tool different from Inkscape that would be able to allow for that interactivity and would be a little bit more streamlined for us to be able to collaborate because we're such a big team all over the world but also for from the dev side we needed something that was using some newer languages newer tools that more devs nowadays are going to be familiar with and we'd be able to have a bit of a cleaner architecture with that as well as being able to get it for people who are program managers content writers and editors marketing being able to edit simple things like strings and images and stuff on our web pages because right now in with the older systems in order to be able to do that you had to have a knowledge of a number of things including HTML container deployments, Python depending on which sites you were looking at so we really wanted to bring this all together which is what brought us to having a simple CMS that allows people that has a GUI so people who aren't technical can get involved. We have our Penpot that allows designers as well as developers to be able to review and engage with the designs and we have View and Notch.js which has a pretty modern and HTML kind of like workflow so it's more intuitive than other systems could be but today we're just going to focus on the whole design bit. All right so Penpot we found it to be a very powerful open source design tool so we're using this in the same way that a lot of other teams would be using Figma or Adobe XD and I think that's like its primary use case and that's what we use for our wireframes and mockups and this has really sped up the process like while we've been developing the design team has been able to start pumping out more mockups and being able to move really really quickly on them and being able to get feedback really quickly as well which I'm just going to talk about in a bit and it's really cool. She's done some great work there but other things that we've done is our UX testing and getting feedback on that and that's something that I have a little more experience with and I'll talk about the navigation system that we've been making for the new website design and how we've gone through a few iterations and been able to get community members to be involved in trying out this stuff and then the other way that we've been using Penpot is as a collaboration tool so we have had a lot of sessions on the development team where there's just a lot of ideas there's a lot of energy there's a lot of people we're all over the place and we've got a lot of ways that we want to do things and we needed to streamline that process just having a list of meeting notes and someone practically trying to write those ideas down while everyone's like wanting to get their ideas out and heard you know it creates stress that distracts the team from the goal of why we're there so even for the development team we've started using Penpot in certain situations when we need a more divergent way of thinking to kind of get all the ideas out so we then can converge on our main topics our main concepts the main interests and focuses across the team we're able to use it to find our commonalities and have that define our process as opposed to the conflict from when we run into differences and that really in the early days of getting this project off the ground I think that those sessions when we use Penpot like fixed a lot of the problems that we're starting to brew at the time so both teams have used this the design team quite a bit more but the development team we've used it in a few spots and it's been extremely helpful to us and so I just want to talk a bit about our collaboration sessions and I'm going to speak on this mostly from the development side but one of the the main ones was our framework configuration ideas and so we were at the time that we started using Penpot to do this we were already at the point of having figured out we were what like 90 of us were like yes we are going to use Vue we're probably going to use Knox but we aren't quite sure we've got some config stuff but we had people that were react devs we had people that were really heavy into Python as well and there was a couple folks who were interested in using Hugo but nobody else in the team knows go so it didn't really work out for us but yeah we had to really get together and figure out how we were going to organize our framework which framework we were going to use and how we were going to put it together and if you get 15 devs in a room to talk about configuration well that's that's a recipe for disaster really really quick if you don't have the right tools to harness all that energy and that's what we did with Penpot so this little diagram I've got going on here is kind of like a very very mini representation of what that session looked like and it was very very productive from that we were able to come up with our agenda items we were able to delegate tasks and we were able to get moving way quicker. Another thing that we used it for was when we were planning out our component design and how we were going to organize things there we ended up using a little bit of Penpot just to get some of those initial ideas off the ground because in our meetings again we would have quite a few people especially in that earlier phase and they were all wanting to get involved and we needed to be able to have a way that everyone could tangibly map their thoughts without stepping on each other's toes and that's where the collaboration ability of Penpot even our team of devs who many of them don't touch design software very often if not ever were able to really quickly figure out how to start getting their ideas down and from a top level we were able to look and find those trends and that was a huge success for us with Penpot so yeah it was great for us getting our feedback ideas from our devs reducing disagreements and then building understanding and I think this is a really good place to segue to the community feedback work that Emma has gotten that she was doing and I'll just switch over to the next slide for that. Yeah thanks for that yeah so as Ashima was saying you know with developer feedback is important but then also when you're working with Infadora and community feedback is is important as well and with design especially it can become a bit difficult to share designs properly especially when they're when they're like website mock-ups and so since Penpot is web-based it's more accessible then so with the mock-up I'm able to enter view mode on the prototype and a shareable link is then generated and you can also modify the permissions and then when you want to you know you can destroy that link then basically if you don't want that shared anymore so that's really helpful when it comes to sharing within the community on stage and discussions and just or on element anywhere like I can just share that link anywhere and anyone's able to just view that mock-up within their browser and then on the next slide I just included just a little diagram of that kind of process so usually what I do is when I finish up kind of my first iteration a mock-up and I'll usually write up a post on discussions and kind of just walk the community through kind of everything I've done what I did it's kind of inspiration and then what happened then is there'll be a discussion and conversation in the comment section people will recommend changes things they think don't look well or don't work well and so what I'll do then is I'll take those suggested changes you know I'll implement them and then I can I can update the community then on that same post and just kind of let them have another look and then you know they talk again and see if anything else needs to be fixed and then implement those suggested changes again and then we'll end up there with a final mock-up so this is just a kind of very simplified version of that but that's kind of the process and I go through anyway when it comes to when it comes to doing one of the website mock-ups so this process I will go through more static designs but for more interactive prototypes they need user testing sessions which is what Ashlyn's going to talk to you with next. Yeah so one of the projects I was working on during the summer was looking at Fedora's navigation and how big how many websites we have and trying to figure out a way to make one nav bar that can capture all of it and that was a really challenging thing at one point the wall behind me it was not actually it's not actually mountains obviously it's a wall and I had it completely covered in little sticky notes of all the different pages trying to figure out a system of grouping that would be logical for community members who've been around for a bit as well as community members who are newer people that are just starting to get to learn about Fedora. One part of this that was really fantastic is I had a friend in Calgary the city that I'm in who she had just finished a UX design program and was looking for some projects to get involved in and like well you're in luck I've got something for you and we got together and started chatting and she doesn't have a very strong tech background so she wasn't really knowledgeable of Linux or what any of this is and I was like you are going to be perfect for this because I need someone who doesn't have all the blinders that I have when I look at this and think about these things and how they're grouped you know I've already got a lot of pre-wrecked knowledge and there's a lot more people coming into Linux that don't have that same technical experience so we need to make something that's going to be friendly for those people so I want I want to work with you plus yeah you already you know that the tools you know the workflow let's do this so we got together and a part of the early testing the very first thing that we did is I sat down and I had all of Fedora's websites opened up in tabs and across multiple browsers and we just like started going through and you know trying to figure out what made sense and she was confused by quite a bit of it and that was great because that was a good place for us to work from and over the next I think it was about two months of periodically meeting together we came up with this current this nav system that you're seeing on the screen so this was this is a fairly low res mock-up I come up with a concept well I was building off of a concept from some other nav systems that I was studying at the time and it was kind of a context-based navigation so that's where we have this green sorry the green the blue the orange and then there was a gray nav as well and those were to designate the download section so pages where you could download fedora editions on and spins etc community pages support pages and contributors we identified those as the top level categories that we can group everything into so our first method was to use a context-based thing this was kind of inspired loosely by no to try to keep everything so if you're if you're in the downloads area just keep you focused on downloads but give you a line to be able to get to community and support etc support though we also kept that top level all the time and then yeah we had these drop downs these hero drop downs this is again very very low res but our goal was to be able to test how people found the terminology we needed our content to test the mental model from our context-based approach so that was one of the first focuses we also needed to look at how users interpreted the visual cues and labels on all of this many of these labels are ones that have existed in the community like labs and spins and whatnot but as far as like a navigation system and moving through these top level labels like downloads community support and contributors how are they going to engage with that and was it going to be logical to them and then we needed to sort of see the types of cognitive load that people would get under while searching so our first test session we built our first prototypes with this and we sorry just one sec we built our first prototypes and then we tested them at nest 2022 so this was a cool way to do it we just basically got a whole bunch of people in on this session that we ran at nest and everyone that was a participant we had a bunch of tasks like find the hyper kitty or find fedora quinoa that's a word that I don't know how to pronounce and we basically just got them going through and searching through things and as they were doing so kind of in the chat or out loud talking about where they were confused where things made sense where they didn't make sense and we were able to take from that information and a determine that our caught that the contact space system was creating too much cognitive load it was too much work to be able to search through and it wasn't actually adding the benefit that we thought it was going to do so we needed to adopt to a new strategy but we were able to figure out that these top level categories were more or less comfortable for people and much of the content in them made sense we had to shift things around a little bit but we were able to figure out what we can build on and what we can mix from the plan and that brought to us to our design phase two so we abandoned top level contact space nav for an interactive set of hero nows we also found and so this is me kind of thinking about it from design and dev that it'd be easier to maintain and smoother to scale as well as deploy so this is like for us to deploy on our own site as well as to send out to sites that aren't within like the fedora project dot org domain yet so sites that aren't in the repo that we're currently rebuilding and we wanted to make a nav that we could have in this as well as one that we could send to the other teams and then be able to have that put up on their pages which is a phase that we haven't gotten to yet right here we were just trying to figure out how to how the nav's going to look and feel and loosely what the architecture underlying the requirements that's going to be the context nav had too much overhead to be able to maintain effectively but what I wanted to show you now is the prototyping that we did in fact make from this so I think it's pretty cool so this one isn't set up for testing yet so when we do it for our next round of testing we'll have just some grayed out fedora pages underneath just so there's a bit of orientation when you are actually at a place but this is our home level the about that would just take you to the index page we might be getting rid of this one we've also recently renamed downloads to get fedora those are some changes but it gives us this nice little interface so we have a sidebar where you can move through and we can get to all of this this design worked really well for us too because it can scale we can add or contract if we look at emerging editions right now there's only silver blue but recently there's a few other options in here this white space gives us room to be able to put information advertisements pop like not pop-ups but extra info about things related to the various additions if we need to and we can fit up to yeah nine items very very comfortably in this and yeah so if I just click through we can see with pen pots prototyping there's some hiccups here and that that's all right it's doing pretty good but um there there's more to be improved and there's more for us to learn how to do it this is the first that we've done prototyping on this scale it was really exciting to build and I took a reasonable amount of effort but by using reusable components and setting up a library we were able to make we're able to make everything easy to duplicate and edit so the workflow which was initially building this quite challenging the first time that we went through we made everything as its own piece but the second time through we were able to make these root components here so we can see all those slides that I was just clicking through and we're able to edit and we're able to edit them and tweak them up really really quick and we're able to do that later after the mock-ups or the prototyping has been made and if we check what the actual prototypes they might take a second to load because it's a fairly large file there this is what that whole thing looks like we get this kind of monstrosity of slides that the prototype we can start to see some of our flows so this is something that I know that for myself was a huge learning experience because I've never prototyped to this degree before and understanding more deeply how the flows connect and move through I know my second time around that's going to be something I take a little bit more attention to because I feel like I didn't quite nail it with that but being able to get something that can be edited tweaked and reviewed and modified by people that don't have programming experience is super super useful it allows us to be able to make changes on this level and review them as well as when we start building we can make changes there too our mobile prototypes in this file is empty we haven't ported those over just yet but yeah so this has been a really fantastic experience coming from bigmo which presently has some more tools but it would it's been around a lot longer and it has a lot more money than behind it this I found to be a 100 viable alternative for building products like this and building designs like this and being able to also test them with users being able to do so with open source tools is amazing because the first of all the number of pages is here this would have already gotten into one of the paid realms of panpod we wouldn't have been able to do this uh this many pages on on a free tier as well as with issues of like people being able to contribute and get involved and share and work on this yeah we would have been stuck having to fight a lot of unnecessary problems based on their pay scale and the way that they handle that so this is lovely likewise with being able to build assets and we'll see if these load up we can see all these different components that I've set up and this is kind of a precursor to what Emma's going to get into next because she's done some really cool things with asset building as well but being able to just take these things and drag and drop to build that's I found that to be a fantastic workflow and really really enjoyed it and yeah so so this is kind of how we've gotten to this last phase of our design process for our navigation and we'll be doing our next round of user testing we've already got it built out in code uh partially but we'll be able to do some more testing make sure we can iron out any bugs and cakes before we build our version of it that'll be able to be deployed to third party hosted sites yeah it's very exciting. Emma if you want to talk about assets from designs yeah of course so like Ashley was just saying there and you know you can store elements and other content in an asset library so you can use them over and over again and you can store like different things you can make components you can store graphics typographies color palettes and so and then what you can do is once you have a library built up you're able to turn them into a shared library that other team members will be able to access then so that can be very helpful and comes to working with a team who you know would regularly need to access the same files and if a new member joins all the assets they need to start building the mock-ups for the project are right there you don't need to you know send them on everything that they need it's all in the one place and what I thought we were able to do was download the libraries into like onto a folder onto your computer but we were wrong but if you go on to the next slide there and kind of work around for that is what you can do you can highlight say all the tech all the images say that you want to download like say if you're a developer and you're building up this website in vs code or whatever code editor and you need to have these images in your asset folder and you'll be able to highlight all of them and export them then in the sizes that they actually are and the format that they are and on the mock-up itself so that kind of brings me into the next slide there so building from visuals so the prototype also can be viewed fully on any type of browser this makes building the website easier you can look at the code side by side with the prototype so you know you know where things go you know it's easy to follow see what images you need to download you know you can it's just a very useful tool and for the next slide I just wanted to talk about how does PEMPOT relate to Fedora's values so the Fedora project if you don't know is the community people working together to build a free and open source software program and I got this from the docs and or in plain English we make an operating system and we make it easy for you to do useful stuff with it and Fedora has core values that the community follow these will be called the four foundations so those will be freedom friends features and first so before the first foundation then freedom so after all we choose free alternatives to proprietary code and content and limit the effects of proprietary code on and within the project so PEMPOT is the first open source design and prototyping platform and it's non-dependent on operating systems it's completely web-based and it works with open web standards so SVGs you know scalable vector graphics this works great along with other open source software such as Inkscape as they you know also work with SVG so you can build up an SVG in Inkscape and you know imported on to PEMPOT and there'd be no issues no compression anything like that and the next one will be friends then so the Fedora community is made up of people from all walks of life working together to advance free software and PEMPOT also have a similar mission their goal is to provide an open source and open standards tool to bring collaboration between designers and developers to the next level which I fully agree with from a designer's perspective you know the handoff over onto the development team it's just a lot smoother you know there's no back and forth trying to you know different assets things like that it's just you know you send one link and everything's there and yeah so then at the next one then features and so Fedora cares about Exxon software our feature development is always done openly and transparently and anyone can participate just like we were saying at the start of this anyone's able at the start of the conference I should say anyone's able to design the Fedora design team you know says any team within Fedora like even the web and apps team you can you can join and you can start working on any issue on any team that you'd be interested in and PEMPOT also shares this ethos and I know that anyone can collaborate the code along with a contributor guide is available on their projects their project github page and I know they also have a community forum as well where you can you know ask questions or report bugs anything like that everything's completely out in the open and yeah so that's one then first so Fedora adopts a strategy of advancing free software through consistent forward momentum this usually follows a release early release often workflow and PEMPOT updates often also I know that they have a dev diary blog that's published to the community and that kind of just highlights you know all the work that's been done all the bugs that they're after been all the bugs that are after being fixed since the last post I guess and there's also a really nice quote on their website and I think fits into this very well so they say we also we also have this sense of urgency and we need to act fast there's too much at stake which I think it's just kind of ties together very well and also apologies for flying through those lines and I know I talk very fast especially when I'm nervous so and yeah so that brings us to the end of our presentation I guess and thank you so much for listening and and Jeff I know we have some questions so yeah yeah so let's let's get to the questions if you guys are ready first one is what feature or feature improvements do you wish you had in PEMPOT? I wish I had the feature I thought we had which was downloading the libraries and so what I'd like to do I know you can download them as a PEMPOT file and also as an SVG component but instead of saving as all different components say on your different files on your computer it just saves them one large SVG so I'd like if they could be saved separately you would make you know hand it off to the devs that a bit more easier because they just have to click a button and then they have everything downloaded and I'm not sure about you Ashton is there anything you would like to see? Oh yes there there's one particular little detail regarding gradients we use the light we have our color setup in a design system which has been amazing that we've been able to use and that's been really cool but with gradients when we click on at least last time I've done this when clicking on the colors from our design system in the little box there while doing a set to set gradient colors it would turn it off the gradient to make the whole thing just that color so we were having to go and grab the called the hex codes and drop them and it's like a minor thing but it'd be really nice if you could just like throw the colors in from there that's a major one. So Emma this is just me expounding as a random person here but if you've ever tried downloading the pen pot file format at one point and I don't know if this is still the case I had tried that and I found out it was like a zip file and the assets were in it but I don't know if that's the case anymore that was definitely an older version but that is something that it's not a project we talked to them about it. I remember we did it before and it worked but I haven't been able to recreate it since then like I can save it and I save it as if on my computer and then when I am on zip up and it's like the SVG is just one large SVG with all the components kind of in there so I don't know if it's something I have to put on separate boards maybe. Yeah it could be well anyway okay so we have two more questions so far the next one is do you have a template for the meeting organization and pen pot that you described and would you be up to share that? Yeah I wonder what is the best way to share can you download the pen pot file and then post it somewhere for people to import? Oh yeah you could do that actually like is that as far as that of doing right now kind of thing? Oh no you don't have to do right now but I think it was something they were asking you if you would be willing to make it available. Oh okay yeah oh yeah we also use this for evaluating our CMS that went through a lot of workflows so here are meetings yeah so we can you can see here some of our issue brainstorming that was sort of an affinity diagramming exercise right so we were yeah breaking it into categories that's right I was trying to remember that term like oh yeah the fancy word playing with sticky notes yeah it's really all it is yeah that's one and very similarly we have these where we are breaking up our tasks into our workflow tasks and stuff this was kind of nice to be able to have the images right next to our planning space so I think at one point all these sticky notes were all over and people were just writing them as they did and then we took them and organized them into this and then we were able to kind of move forward a bit. So the next question is when and where do you work on Penpot with the Fedora project? I would love to see how you're using the tool in process so I think that might be if you wanted to go back to the Fedora design Penpot project and maybe we could just give a quick tour. Yeah so this navigation design this is like various stages I ended up making a drafting versus our little hot dog version here of like yeah let's try not to edit this one because we started getting some contributors getting involved in the mobile version but yeah so we can see kind of our UX flow space early design concept ideas when we're very first coming up with it and yeah so this is the space we do that drafts we've got this presentation was actually done in Penpot so we're pretty happy to be able to use this for that purpose too. Some of our planning here a new FPO so these are a lot of the these are all the mock-ups that we've got for there's a bunch of the mock-ups at least I think these are most of them for our designs for our new web pages that are being built as well as a component library that we were working on just over half a year ago so that's the where our file for getting our colors and our typography assets kind of figured out so that way we don't have to manually do it all the time. Yeah our meeting sections event pages that's yeah we're working on flock and we've been talking a bit about making other follow-up pages to the flock new landing page meeting notes and then libraries which I think we needed to move the fedora design system content into here at some point okay that's that's where it lives in branding it's really cool being able to see the the planning work that's done on the the wallpaper releases here too that's like really interesting to be able to scan and see how people are working on that. I also like the the library's features Alfred the likes of the fedora and characters you know if I wanted to do something quick with those I'm able to just kind of go into the library and just grab that source file and then I can just you know make a graphic then that way I think it's it's nice to have everything in one place and it's and it's very visual as well so you know that kind of way I find that like google drive and stuff it's you know folders within folders but I like how you're able to set like a copper image and it kind of helps me navigate through it a lot better. I find that too like being able to just yeah this sort of way of organization is really nice I think we should start taking advantage of this libraries and templates tab down here more too very cool sorry does I hope that answers the question does that does that kind of like a decent walkthrough? I thought that was great okay so and we have two more questions that have queued up as you were answering the next one is when do you think the new websites for fedora will be implemented I know this is hard to predict but I am super looking forward to seeing all this work in production. Yeah we're getting pretty close so our plan is to launch for f38 so you're going to get a new version of fedora and you're going to get a new full website it's going to be pretty rad. Okay and the next question is have you considered creating a fedora instance for penpot? Well clearly I have not I'm curious what that would entail would you be able to elaborate? I think probably they mean hosting our own and if anybody is curious in hosting their own I'm kind of stubborn I really like the podman project and I wanted to see if I could get it working on podman and if you I'll post a link in the chat but you can actually if you wanted to get your own copy of penpot running on your local system using podman it's you know a web-based application so you know you're basically deploying containers on your local system. During Pablo's talk yesterday he did mention talk of a desktop application but I don't know I don't know more the details about that so that's something we could probably go back to him and ask about too but in terms of fedora I think that penpot.app is working well for us so I don't foresee us deploying our own penpot in the near future but I don't know what you guys think. Yeah I remember trying the the podman one and I was I was having a hard time getting it to run and I think I eventually did but I wasn't able to get it to connect the data up on like the remote so like this one I wasn't able to get this information into it. I did I cannot remember how I did it now it was kind of like one of those 2 a.m. and still drinking caffeine for some unholy reason kind of sessions and I deployed it as an electron app and that was kind of cool but like a lot of the packages I did to do that had some security vulnerabilities and weren't being maintained so I thought it wasn't worth relying on that deployment and just to stick to the web to be as long as I knew I could rely on that. That makes sense and it looks like the question asker said that answers their question so that's good we don't have any more questions coming in. I have my own question for you too if you could change how the Fedora design team uses penpot what kind of changes would you like to see? I would say it'd be really cool if we could get more more of a push and more movement on using prototyping features I feel like that's an untapped resource that would be really cool if we could start getting a stronger hand on as well as our libraries it'd be really like because we've been using them and they're doing pretty good but I think that it's still a thing we just haven't gotten sharp enough with the workflow with them and that's me tangently being in the design team commenting on that so I'm more in the dev side of things but I know for myself yeah like we could spend a bit more time sharpening up our libraries and whatnot I think we'd be able to make better use of them because I think when we started doing these meetings like this I think this was fantastic and I don't know if it's like a thing with working with some outreach interns to come up with a couple very strong use cases for doing this we could build off of what we've already done yeah I just I think that there's some untapped potential basically that we could start reaching into how about you Emma yeah I agree with the the libraries part those are not the libraries and stuff it would make onboarding into the team a lot easier as well just to kind of you give them access to the pen pot and they have access to all the assets they need really you know and yeah I'll have to have a look through and see what isn't on the in the libraries at the minute and start kind of just tipping away at that myself I think we already have another question in the queue if you guys are ready is a fedora badges website redo in the queue yes it's a bit distant in the queue but it is in the queue we want to get this launched through for us because it's been a pretty big initiative for both our fairly new websites team as well as for the design team like there's been a lot of mock-ups having to be made very fast and from speaking with a few folks it seems like our heads are kind of like let's get through this let's make sure that this first launch is good because there are follow-up launches that need to happen with that right it's not a one and done kind of thing but this first one is the big one so we need to make sure this is a success and then from there there's been some talk about getting some people working on badges that's great and um you guys want to wrap it up and we'll finish out the day thank you everyone for listening to us it was really really cool to be able to present this work it's been a huge priority I think for MIA yourself as well as me for the past like over half a year now so being able to like show what we've been doing and show how we've been using this open source and very powerful tool very cool thank you yeah thanks so much and I'm very excited for tomorrow as well the last day of the creative freedom summit and I know um Jess and Marie from the fedora design team are also doing a talk on fedora badges and inkscape if I remember yeah so I'm looking forward to that as well and the Pictionary Social so yeah excited for tomorrow all right so we'll see you guys tomorrow bye bye