 Hey friends, this is Dan and Stephanie Burke. You're watching behind behind the scenes divine intimacy radio Think you'll be excited to hear from our guest today Dr. Mary Ruth Hackett. She has written a great book That even I liked Especially the conclusion which we'll talk about for the end of the show And the reason why I say even I like this because it's it's about it's called daughter by design You are not a daughter. I'm not a daughter of the king We are not woke on this. My identity is really clear Born a male still male ain't nothing nothing to die in a male Bert Foy has got we are the anti woke podcast Before we jump into the show I want to tell you we still have seats at the marriage retreat, you know We do we do we opened it up. So we do have seats Great Christmas gift. Oh, you should you should reach out to the guys on this one. Yeah So guys if you all men understand the points system married men understand the point system This is a top-secret language for guys. If your endpoints inventory is diminished I've got two well only one. It's just the the yeah, if it's diminished so sign up for the Divinity Museum marriage retreat and print out the receipt Roll it up wrap it in a bow one under the tree Yeah, you'll get at least one to two months worth of points inventory or more increase or I don't know, you know Considering the fruit that comes from it. Uh, it may be life-changing where that just continues. That's what deposits being Yeah, constantly and to the guys if this isn't a retreat designed By women to make dudes feel like women and feel silly and share that themselves the way that no men do So and I and I want to add this you were actively involved in the design right this retreat This wasn't a retreat that was designed by women for married couples But rather you and I as a couple Equally contributing to what this would look like really put our blood sweat and tears. We also didn't mirror it Off of anything off of anything else we didn't go to any other retreats and then come in Yeah, it's completely 100% out of prayer and blood and sacrifice. So yeah, check it out I so you know we allow men to be men and women to be women We instead of men being this misbehaving women, which is right. Yeah. Anyway, that's a long story Your identity is important to us. That's what we're talking about today, too. Yeah, so Uh correction calm Events page is where you sign up for the marriage. It'll be at the shrine of the most blessed sacrament to In handsville. You just cannot lose if you have still Alabama. It's amazing place. It is. It's incredible All right, there's something else you want to say. Yeah, you said there was another thing And so the other thing is the pilgrimage to the holy land. Yes in 2024 It's already filling and and you know, you may think we're insane for opening it up already But the it they fill up so fast that we went ahead and we secured the guide because we have this amazing guy over there Yeah, um, just really securing everything because we did one last year. It was incredible. The fruit was amazing From it not the physical fruit even though the food in in israel is great Um, but i'm talking the spiritual fruit that came of the pilgrimage And so we've already secured the dates and everything for 2024 And we're opening up now and we limit it to 50 seats period Yeah, uh one bus we will not do multiple buses. We make this intimate Believe it or not 50 is intimate You have a lot of time to be together and talk and we get to eat have a meal with most of the people Yeah, and really build relationships and it's an amazing trip. Okay, so shall we jump into the show? Let's go Okay On your market set go. This is dana Stephanie Burke. Welcome to divine intimacy radio your Radio haven of rest your hermitage of the heart your monastery of the mind where we lift our hearts and minds to heaven to draw upon the wisdom of the saints and the church and the teachings of the church and uh, we've got a great guest today to talk to us about How that applies to Daughters women, right, right? I'm so excited. Yes. I love this. I love the topic. I love this book This is awesome. So who's the human that we're interviewing? Absolutely. So dr. Mary Ruth Hackett Um, the book is called daughter by design and she has earned her phd in educational psychology Um with a concentration in lifespan development She is the host of the popular parenting smarts podcast That's parenting smarts podcast Produced by the diocese of phoenix Where she offers parenting tips and insights based on theory research faith and her own practical experience As a wife and mother to four children She is also a contributing writer at both spiritual direction dot com. Yay and blessed as she yay Uh, dr. Hackett writes and speaks at the important intersection of faith and development science Blending them both in the original harmony god intended Daughter by design her new book on identity for catholic women is the only book of its kind bringing together these fields in a practical way In a culture swirling with increasing confusion around meaning and identity Daughter by design provides women a retreat from the chaos of life And a way to connect with the daughter within and our heavenly father Above beautiful. Wow. What a great descriptor. I'm so excited about this podcast. Welcome Thank you. Thank you for having me on That's awesome. Well, I you know, I think a good place to start is the subtitle Is discovering your identity as god's beloved daughter You I think one of these things that you do exceptionally well and I and I mean that across a broad range of catholic literature on parenting and you know human development of whatever form Is this you have a beautiful clarity around This idea of identity What it means why it's important Maybe lay a little groundwork for us there Yeah, thank you. Um I think I have a unique benefit that is sometimes missing in our in our fields and that I first came from the field of psychology And studied identity academically I my master's thesis was on self-concept in grade school children and Trying to identify some factors that help kids to grow up really knowing who they are completely secular completely secular at that point and I went to a women's college. So I did a lot of Work and study looking through the lens of what does it mean to be a woman specifically? That's a big question right now It shouldn't be But it is um yes, so And then um as I You know grew into a mom I had to wrestle again a little bit individually not just academically but now practically speaking. What does it mean to? You know to not Pursue a life in academia, you know, you spend so many years studying a topic and get all the letters behind your name and and then you wake up every morning and Change diapers and feed babies and take them to the park and have play dates um It was after that point that I then converted and became became catholic and Really started to find myself really started to understand what it meant to be god's beloved daughter And and so I think my experience both in the ivory tower of scholarship and scholarship in academia, but also personally as I went through my own conversion and Decided not to pursue A life of academia, but rather really invest in that in that home and hearth Uh, I had to personally wrestle with who I was and what did it mean? I share a bit in the story about You know the snarky comments people make when you go to school for that long and Then become a paycheck just sitting at home was one of the comments someone once made But but I had to find and really understand what my worth was And and find that my worth was not in what I did day to day so much as um, who's I was Um, however, I could live out my purpose day to day and that I was uniquely created to do that and no one else was So so that's sort of the general concept of the book And and my hope is that I'm able to walk the reader through a process of discovering that for herself I do pull for my background in psychology and The classes I took on qualitative research and had to ask a good question Uh, things like that to really help the reader Go deeper themselves I I got an email from a reader recently and she said I wanted to To and I'll paraphrase paraphrase, but she said I wanted to let you know. I'm only on page 39 of your book But I've had to spend a lot of time with the first 39 pages And she said she was taking it to her spiritual director. They were working through it together She was working through it with prayer because she had no idea how how it was going to change her And how the process of praying through the book and I've had a couple other friends who've said Mary Ruth I just can't get through your book, but I'm working through it slowly Because it's changing me and and they have to sit with it. It's not a book that you You read and then move on to something else It's a it's a book that you read and you sit with and and you take to prayer and you take to adoration and Um You spend some time with that letting the Lord really show you How much he loves you? And and how beautifully you were created To do what he's he's asking you to do day to day You know what really strikes me about all of what you just mentioned is Um, well, first of all because my background was you know, I grew up being told I needed to achieve That uh, in fact god rest his soul, but my father really wanted a male Not a female And and that was that was told to me, you know, I wanted a boy But we got you and I love you, but I wanted a boy, right? and so that pressure of Being a female wasn't good enough, you know, and you needed you need to achieve you need to get a degree You need to uh care for yourself. You need to be independent. Yes. Yes Getting married and having children is fine, but you need to Have this kind of autonomous zone where if everything falls apart, you know, you you've got it under control Just deep rooted self-reliance and a really a huge confusion of identity Of who we are called to be so I have gone through this transformation Through many crosses trials and such Um, your book really flies in the face of the culture that we're living in today It is it is, you know, if people want to be counter cultural This is the way to do it because oh my goodness, right? So you start you've you've divided this book into identity challenges and prayer With the identity leading the pack which which I love even though I'm I just, you know So I was thinking well should prayer become first, but I think If you haven't started there, you know, really you have to come to some sort of idea like Why would I want to pray at all? You know, who would I be praying to? What does this relationship mean between me and And this supposed god my father, right? Becoming this daughter. So you've you've broken it down into imitation integrity and intentionality Um, tell us about leading with identity and what those three sections what why those three sections on it Well, I love that you mentioned But you thought you had that to you know Almost that that conflict should prayer come first because when I originally wrote it prayer did come first And so I went through that same I don't know which one should come first And came to the came to the conclusion that people are going to pick it up because They want to understand themselves a little bit better and yes, that will come through prayer But if I started with prayer They might not get to the end And so by starting with identity and and really easy easy stuff Well, I mean maybe not if you know people are getting Getting hung up on the first chapter You know, but but some of the questions That I ask are You know thinking back on your week. What did your actions say about you? You know, it's it's those sort of questions that are If you just spend some time thinking about it, you can answer it and and my goal in in the way I structured it was to get The reader to a point where she could read stop reflect and start really start praying Through these questions early without almost realizing that that's what was happening So that they that the reader could develop Almost like a habit of prayer and a habit of of being reflective So that by the time she got to the end of the book and said, okay Well, what now she'd actually already know what now it totally makes sense I I teach a class for the avalanche to called foundations of prayer And I think the design came out of prayer But it was always weird to me because I begin the course with four lectures on it on identity Like who you are what happened to us How it is that god created you and conceived you and your mother's womb Why you exist because you can't I you got it right you can't Understand prayer why to pray why it's so important how beautiful and good it is I mean, it's harder to do when you don't realize that there's someone waiting to meet you Who loves you beyond loving of any love you could ever conceive of in our humanity in this life And when you get that you want to pray Right and so I I set it up As a process of what we would call like an internalization of This identity for for those women for whom maybe it's not coming super easy So I start with imitation and just talking about the people in their life I think one of the hang ups to To growing in the spiritual life is to feeling like you're not good enough and of course that's not true But sometimes we look and we say well You know, I just can't do it right or I'm just not good enough and and and I flip that on its head right away in the first chapter By saying It's okay. It's good to imitate. We are asked to imitate We're asked to be imitators of Christ to be to be imitators of the saints to be imitators of Mary that they are there For us to say I if you have a desire in your heart to be holy then imitate those who are holy And and so I give I give them that model. I I walk the reader in the first chapter through the feminine genius and and and what that is and what that means And ask ask the reader to identify what areas of the feminine genius come easily to you what areas Don't come easily to you Mary Ruth Yeah, absolutely. Um, when we come back, I want to talk about a little bit more of this idea of imitation I think it's so very powerful. So we're going to take a quick break and we'll be right back with dr. Hackett on her book daughter by design Okay, so 1252 so We can do um Yeah, we can just do 12 12 30 to 12 40 that should be fine Okay, I think uh, we'll just jump back in Okay, on your market set go Welcome back this dana Stephanie Burke. Welcome back. I'm saying it twice stop reset This is for the editor. That's why we have editors for the radio show for those listening live stream They get to see all of our mistakes usually my mistakes. She raised her eyebrows when I said our mistakes like How's that possible? Okay Sorry again On your markets that go This is dana Stephanie Burke. Welcome back to divine intimacy radio talking about a fantastic book uh called daughter by design by mary ruth hackett Which uh, we both strongly recommend you go by fully endorse the book amazing work And you Stephanie Burke have another question. Yes. So right before the break we were talking about this importance of imitation and and where you know, the culture really tells us you need to be unique you need to be on the cutting edge and I just don't know anybody that's not imitating something or someone And they think they may be doing it, you know It's just quite remarkable And in our culture the way it is now at the time of this recording The examples Are few and far between and the examples that are being imitated Are Fully lacking like they're so destructive And they're just destroying our identity as as daughters as women As mothers etc, right? So Let's go back to this beauty of Turning to and I you know the church in her wisdom sets forth these examples of the saints and and even At the time of this recording yesterday was the feast of our lady of guadalupe and we have her image here and and thinking about Even god himself knew we needed somebody to imitate We need to be able to see ourselves in the saints and know what that example should be and and who we're called to be As daughters. So can you talk a little bit more about that? Yes, I I love that you said that we all imitate someone in something because that is how we learn We learn when we're growing up as young children We see what we want to be like and we see what we do not want to be like As as for for those of you who are parents I mean frequently the way we decide our parenting skill is I want to or our parenting styles I wanted this just like my parents did it or I wanted I do not want to do what my parents did In this and such realm. I mean that is how we learn that is part of how we become part of a culture And part of a community we adopt the practices of those Who are around us? And it can be a beautiful thing it but it can also be a toxic thing And and I think that we have an entire generation of young women who are growing up now and and this book actually is fabulous for college-aged women because Late high school and early college-aged women man if they can figure this out now It it will help them incredibly and and developmentally they are naturally primed for this question of who I am and who's I am and and and What is my purpose in life? I mean that that is part of what they are uniquely figuring out at this age We hit it again in the in the midlife crisis point of our life as as women as well sometimes but Um If if they can figure out who those models of holiness are around them not not Only in their communities But also in in the history in the history of the church In the beautiful people that we have The beautiful saints that we have to model ourselves off of christ himself We we have and we're called to be imitators of christ as well Then then it can really help us to see I think sometimes and I write about this in the book a little bit We can feel like imposters and psychologists have this concept imposter syndrome where we don't think we're good enough And so we don't use our gifts We don't step into the role of who we are because we're looking at other people and we're worried And so when you can really fully understand your gifts Then it helps you to see how to use those gifts when you can see people around you Who are using their gifts to glorify god? So Does that answer your question? Absolutely, and it's it's just it really is such a challenge Because I know that sometimes we can look to marry we can look to the saints And when we're confused and broken and we're coming from a place of woundedness As we grow up We can often look at that and go well. Yeah, but i'm never going to measure up to that Right that that's beyond me But this really provides a bridge and The the really the The building blocks of Who are we who are we as women? Who were we created to be as daughters? Of the great king, you know, I I when dan and I were first courting he used to call me daughter of the king daughter of the do tk do tk and he I would receive an email and it said do tk I can't tell you what an effect that had on me and I remember when he would say you're a good woman That in my shame and my brokenness I would repel from that compliment. I could not receive it. How long did it take? Oh, it took years probably Probably five to ten years before I could receive that and understand that I I'm only good because god has created me good That that that all that is good is in him That he is what's good and in my brokenness. I can surrender that to the lord and he can heal and purify me And and use me like he can use me and that's a revelation, right? So Let's talk about the challenges moving from discovering ourselves our true identity To these challenges that you list here crosses Comparison well, that's a big one comparison and consistency Can you share with us a little of how you walk us through that in the book? Yes I try to practice what Jerome bruner would call a spiral curriculum where you sort of Come back to to a similar concept, but then go deeper. So in the in the middle section I talk about the struggles And and I do so because Once you have A deeper understanding of who you are It could be easy for people to walk away and say, okay. I got this that you know chapters over. I'm done I'm good here, but the reality is we live in this broken world And we're going to be met with challenges. We're going to be met with struggles throughout our life and so the the first the first chapter in that section chapter four crosses helps the reader to really Find some of the crosses and to name them to actually name them. What are the crosses sometimes? Oh, yeah, I know what my struggles are. We don't need to talk about that That's fine But there's there's a beauty in being able to name those and then and then embrace those And recognize them as your path to holiness that God has given you those for a reason And they are for your sanctification that he has allowed it to to happen He's allowed things to happen and he will bring good out of that And so I I encourage the reader to really turn those over To the lord But also to pick up their cross every day And and and to to really embrace that And then the the next chapter there's Sort of a unique cross that we all have I think in in terms of comparison And you know comparison is as old as the bible. We we know who we see that in gain and able And so I ask the reader to to really examine Who's around her that she's comparing herself to and Looking at areas that she really needs to grow herself But but not from a sense of okay, let's let's pick apart all of your faults In comparison to everybody else But but really to be sort of more process focused and say okay these this is what we're going to grow through right now um, and then consistency That was really important to before I launched into the last chapter on prayer To just talk about consistency as an individual characteristic and to devote a whole chapter to it because I know a lot of us can do really well for a little while maybe in our in our prayer life or in In in in one aspect or another of our life and then we kind of kind of glide for a little while Or we're kind of slack off for a little while and then we got to play catch up and we got to refill that refrigerator We got to get that laundry done and we got to really really get to it But if if we're able to in terms of our interior life Really work towards Infusing prayer into everything bringing God into the everyday It's it keeps it from being a check the box mentality like okay. Well. I went to daily mass. I'm done with I'm done with Jesus for the day I got to get my work done I don't I don't want people to develop a prayer life that has that sort of an attitude So I wanted them the reader to look at consistency in their life and all aspects of their life Before we launched into The last chapter on prayer Yeah The consistency piece that and and another word would be like that persevering spirit, right? Is just really important and and just to let everybody know you can find more On dr. Hackett's work at maryruth hackett.com make sure you check out all of her work there But going back to this persevering and consistency um I I think one of the things that has been very powerful to me Is and you know, I think the Lord just placed it on my heart. He said ask for what you want Ask for what you want and so in my prayer whether it was Thinking of a place that I needed to grow in virtue Or a vice that I needed to you know, I needed to be conquered and rooted out of my life Um, or that day to day. Yes, I go to mouse But how do I stay with him and how do I and if I ask him to stay with me? So I would pray lord abide with me grant that I would abide with you I know you're here grant me the grace to abide in you this day And not to leave you in the the busyness of my day to day So to remain mary in my martha, you know and not lose that So I want to I want to make sure we say it one more time Daughter by design discovering your identity as God's beloved daughter I believe you can find this at ewtn's religious catalog When you order it from me to ewtn's religious catalog two really cool things happen one They actually send you the book and two you're helping the ministry of ewtn So order it from ewtn's religious catalog go to mary ruth hackett Her the ruth hackett part is spelled As it sounds r u t h h a c k e t t Dot com to get the book as we conclude i want to read Just a brief section of the conclusion which is sort of radio. No, no, but it's so good I can't stress enough sisters We cannot know who we are fully until we come to see ourselves as god sees us as his daughter When we are able to recognize our unique gifts to surrender the things that separate us from the lord And center more deeply into a relationship with him or enter more deeply into a relationship with him We are able to grow in our understanding of how the lord loves us And how we are uniquely designed to serve him in this world This understanding changes everything and I think this book will change everything for young women who pick it up Absolutely. So we're so grateful. We're so grateful for your time with us today. So again, check out daughter by design and until next time May the god of peace make you perfect in holiness May he preserve you whole and entire spirit soul and body Irreproachable at the coming of our lord jesus christ. Amen. Amen Amen Thank you