 Hi, my name is Aiden O'Shea. I'm one of the directors of the Linguaviva Centre Language School on Leason Street in Dublin. Aiden, I want to start by asking you about the challenges that the pandemic has posed in your school and in your classrooms there. Yeah, well I suppose like all language schools we taught our last class before the pandemic on the 13th of March and ironically it was the 13th of October when we reopened so we were closed for physical classes for a full seven months. I suppose the initial challenge caused by the pandemic was flipping a very short notice on to online classes in the space of 48 hours now. We were lucky enough that we had some guidance from Quality English that they developed in relation to online classes and online class charters and best practice for reteaching and for syllabus and so on. So that was probably the first challenge that we faced and then I suppose the second challenge once we had got the online classes up and running was the back end support, you know, the admin, the student support applications for, you know, letters that students need social programs and, you know, moving all of that from a face to face provision online. And so they were kind of the two initial hurdles that we had to overcome at the very early stages of the pandemic. And as it went on, I suppose, and as we all realize that this wasn't something that was going to go away in two or three weeks or even two or three months. The next hurdle for us was, well, how do we how do we deal with this and, you know, not just in an emergency form for two or three weeks but how do we make this the new norm. And that was, you know, adapting everything that we do kind of becoming if you like an online school. You know, for a substantial period of time and training has been has been a huge part of it and getting lots and lots of feedback so we surveyed our students regularly, our staff, and then as we decided on a reopening in October, now we probably reopened later than many schools because we, I suppose, wanted to get it right. And we surveyed extensively our staff or students and what they, what their priorities were, going back to face to face classes, and the point to view of safety from the point to view of resources. And then once we decided we'd go back, again, training our staff, moving all of our, moving all of our placement tests online, and then trying to implement the COVID policies as they became available to us from the range of government bodies so it's I think that the main problem from for all schools I don't think I speak, you know, just for our school here was the lack of clarity, and you know we really didn't know which a under whose office as we fell you know we were we were dealing with the Department of Education, we were dealing with newly formed departments, you know there was, everyone forgets there was an election and new departments, you know, in the start of this pandemic, and then just trying to, trying to agree on a set established protocol and for everything to be online to reopening. And so that's been, that's been a frustration, and you know just when you thought you had, you know, something as simple as, you know, two meters or one meter distance or 1.5 or masks or visors so it's the constant move of the feast. It just had to be adaptable. And I think that the best way to do that has just been to set our own standards, you know, to take in all of the standards available by government bodies. And as I said, we work with Quality English we've worked with the MEI have had theirs available but I think you need to set your own standards that you're comfortable with that cover all of the statutory guidelines, and then train up your staff, go with them and then, implement and enforce them and so far it's worked. And we reopened physically for eight days and then we were back online. You know again that's just that's just the way 2020 has been but I think we were all really happy with those eight days. And because we got to test out the systems that we had, you know, spent months planning. And then we now know that when next go back face to face that we were very happy with the physical layers of the school and the structures and the procedures that we put in place they all worked well, albeit firm for eight days but we now know that we can confidently reopen again when we're told safe to do so. And from the feedback that you, you were collecting as you went along from the students from the staff was a kind of things where they telling you that influence the form that that eventually took whether it's academically or in terms of health and safety or general welfare. Yeah. And I suppose the first thing we focused on was the health and safety given you know this this is a, this is a health crisis that we're in so. And, you know, we've we pride ourselves and having good access to things like computer rooms libraries student rooms we've a lovely outdoor area at the back, and you know students use that and we also have low numbers in our classes so we had to tell the students that if we're going to go back here face to face we're going to have to sacrifice a lot of our common areas. You know, are you happy to come back where you know you won't be able to congregate on the breaks. You won't be able to congregate outside classes where you know you won't have access to a computer room or libraries and so on. And students were aware that unhappy, I suppose to make those sacrifices if it meant they could get back in a classroom with, you know, with their teachers with their classmates so the priority first and foremost was health and safety and from an academic provision point of view. We looked at, you know, we, I suppose we stopped recruiting and for quite a while once the pandemic kicks we know we didn't know exactly how long it would take so once we knew we're going to reopen we started to recruit new students again. And that phase so we're quite a lot of new students and invariably, you've got quite a broad spectrum of levels so we made the decision early on that we would continue to provide all all levels even down to you know a one for students. And even if it meant one or two in a class, because that's what the feedback from students was they didn't want to end up in, you know, classes where you had maybe an a one a two blend because you know it made more sense economically or it made more sense when they were online so what we ended up doing is actually having more classes face to face than we had online because well a for for social distancing but be because we were getting a broader spectrum of levels. And we canvas the students in advance of that and again they were happier to be, and you know, in a more defined level, and then maybe they would have been online. So most of the students concerns were around health and safety, you know, were they happy to wear a mask for three four hours a day. And were they happy that you know a lot of the things that they really enjoyed in the class previously may not be able to to happen such as you know really you know intensive pair work and group work so we prepare them a lot for kind of the pedagogic changes that we prepare. And I think, saying that to them in advance and giving them the option to maybe continue some of those aspects online and through our virtual learning platform, kind of soften the blow of the fact that now they couldn't do, you know, the really close you know two or in a pod and kind of pair work that they that they were quite used to so. And, but again I think just telling the students in advance telling them what to expect what was coming rather than them arriving in first day, we moved on over induction again online. And moving our placement tests online allowed us to then do the induction and right up to even doing some video tours live video tours which new students to walk them around the building. I think, and showing them the story, and I looked at what the HSE did actually for, for children who are yet to get the test, you know, to get their cove a test and they had a really interesting story of the day where they show the students but you know you'll arrive at the building and somebody will meet you like this and it's a very strange looking building because everybody's in PPE but we kind of took a similar approach where we, you know, the students were used to seeing the school under normal conditions and we kind of didn't want them to be shocked eight, seven, eight months later where it was covered in stickers and signs and the desks were different and there was barriers up so we kind of brought them through a video tour of the school to show them you'll arrive here, stay to the left inside of the stairs. You know this is your teacher's zone which you know you shouldn't be going into and normally you go to the office but can you please email us instead so I think showing them in advance what the building looked like how the layout had changed, you know, made their adaptation to arriving into the building a lot easier. So we've been having a one students and when it's all changed and new procedures and new way of doing things and new information that must really have been a challenge for them. Yeah, yeah, no absolutely I mean we're lucky we've got quite a multilingual staff and so you know we do have the main the main languages covered so we were able to again through the online inductions and kind of zoom supports. And the visuals work really well with with a one learners, particularly in the area as I said of health and safety, but it's always a challenge I think even under normal conditions, you know, doing proper inductions with a one students because there's such a mountain of immigration anyway for them, arriving into a new country and, you know, everything from getting registered with immigration to finding accommodation and all of the, all of that paperwork that goes with it so it's it's it's a challenge at the best of times. But again, we took advantage I guess of having a good lead in time and I think giving ourselves the lead in time we could have reopened in August or September. And we waited until October, just so we could work through all of these issues in advance and kind of think about them in advance so we gave ourselves plenty of time. We knew we had a one students coming in. So we knew that we had two or three weeks in which to integrate them in and for them to meet us all online and get their documents set up and get their appointment set up so that when they did join our classes they could just concentrate on the classes. And I don't always have that luxury when you're in a busy period, you know, in a face to face language school where, you know, you're, you're processing, you know, larger number of students and you're doing inductions and placing tests on a Monday so one of the benefits I think of as we've a smaller student population now so, and, you know, we never had a huge population but it's smaller than usual. And so you just get to spend more time with the students and you get to spend more time, especially in advance of their arrival so that's that's certainly helped. So, apart from using zoom and this kind of, you know, technical tools and all of that. What would you say you've learned along the way as an organization or even yourself as a professional. Yeah, I mean it has been it's been really interesting it's been, you know, it's a good way to kind of I think reassess your kind of core values as a school you know what is it that we do what is it that we don't do. I think we've certainly and what we you know what we keep on saying at our staff training every week is that we need to set up our school and our systems for the students give the students every chance to succeed. So I think we've gotten to know our student profile a lot better. And we've gotten to know their needs and I suppose the things that affect them on a day to day basis so for example, in our most recent kind of feedback the students we realized that what was stopping them access to the online class at the moment was wasn't, you know, in a good phone or good laptop or good wife I was that where they're living there's four or five other people in their apartment with them and they can find a quiet space to learn or they could have another blackmate in the same room as them in a different school on a different call on a different level and you know, so we've said to our students for example if you are within five kilometers of us, and it's safe to do so and you just you you're you're doing your class at home isn't working for you, you can come into the building will will designate a classroom to you you can use our Wi-Fi user hardware and access our online classes on the school. And so I think, you know, that whole idea of you know setting the students up for success and giving them every chance for success has has kind of become a little mini mantra for us, and since we started back onto the online classes. I think the other thing we've noticed is, you know, you spoke about it, you know, there's so much out there now between zoom and all the different virtual learning environments and the gadgets and so on and they're great but good teachers in a physical classroom so that the core of, you know, teachers and preparing suitable classes for students at their level that are challenging and engaging, albeit by a different medium, by its very essence is still what we do. And we've worked a lot with our teachers, you know, we learned a lot over the, the six or seven months. Myself and the other director Ian Bo taught online, we kind of had learned the hard way you know what works what doesn't work so we worked a lot with the teachers, preparing them for the differences between face to face and online classes. It's not good enough just to kind of say we'll do an hour and a half break hour and a half and we'll deliver lessons the same way, you know, a breakout room doesn't work the same way that you know sending students into parent group work and also, you know, having traditional books on an online class, you know, doesn't make sense so we've kind of started to reassess, I think, a lot of ways how we assess students, what we use to assess them, the materials that we're using. And I think we'll carry a lot of that into our face to face classes as well. And, you know, I think we were always looking at better ways of getting students to produce language, whether it be, and you know, what's that voice notes, video presentations, you know, share docs, all of these things and I think this going online has really helped with that, you know, rather than, I think the mistake that could have been made was just trying to transfer, as I said, what happens in a face to face class into an online class so we're trying to avoid that. And I think we're trying every week to get the teacher's feedback on what the students require because it's the big change for them as well. And so I don't think you can have enough feedback or enough training during this whole period. The last question there is, how do you see it developing in the medium to long term? Wow, the crystal ball. Yeah, I mean, I think we've all agreed as soon as we can get back face to face safely, even for a portion of our syllabus we want to. And, you know, our students came to Ireland and we want them to be, albeit if it's only for a period of the week in class. I definitely think the industry needs to start looking more seriously at blended and flip learning classes done, done properly. And I think the online, I think we're going to be using online for a while in 2021 I don't know how long but we're certainly looking at hopefully if this quarantine period drops from two weeks to a week, or you know dropped from 14 days to five days I think we could be initial weeks for students maybe being done online or in a blended format and then building up towards face to face or if students need to be self isolation for example if they're close contacts I think there has to be a way of them continuing on in their curriculum online without kind of having to you know lose those two weeks so I think that type of adaptation is going to be really essential. In a teaching context as well I think we're going to be you know we're all looking at the moment at quite a small in Ireland quite a small pool of students from a very kind of specific demographic. And I think as we head towards the springtime, you know that demographic will change and I think traditionally there's always been a change maybe more short term students coming in I think that will be a big challenge because they've got very different you know to students who are here on the academic year programs. So I think managing a short term students expectations with long term when you've got, you know potential zones changing from green to red to orange. I think having lots of flexibility in your system and having a lot of adaptation in your system is going to be crucial. And I think most schools and teachers have responded really well to that because you know that there has been no choice you know it's been it's been an unprecedented year. But I do think that we should come out of the last, you know, nine, 10 months, the better far up but I don't think we can go back to kind of the the old traditional way the things were done, you know right the way from, you know recruitment through to the student journey assessment and the whole fundamentals of learning the whole student support social program. And we're going to have to take the best lessons from this if we're going to. We're going to make the industry more resilient and hopefully as well you know it produces different revenue streams for schools. And you know I think you know plenty of schools are dying to get back to face and you know you can understand why it's what they've done since you know they open their schools but I think, I think they'll have to understand as well that you know there there is a market for different types of programs and there is a need I think to get more creative and modernize programs. And you know, I've been listening and talking to people, you know, developing a virtual learning environment and going online and putting it as a two or three year program and then in the space of two weeks, people did it and they had to do it so I think it just goes to show, you know that it, it can be done but I think it has to be thought through now and then it has to be where where does this sit in our suite of offerings It's one thing setting something up at very short notice and it's you know it doing a job but I think if it's going to be done properly and if it's going to form an integral part of what you are as a school then that's fine but you know think it through and decide where it sits in your suite of offerings and rather than just you know continue doing the, the, the norm which which you know it won't work it won't work with 2021. Yeah I mean the genius and it's not going back into that bottle and I also think that the emergency is over. This is now. This is now the normal whatever whatever that might be. And so, yeah we just have to kind of get used to it. I mean, as I said, it's, it's, you know, it's the five stages of grief even with it you know, accepting you know when we all heard the, the speeches it was you know closing the schools on the 12th 13th of March we all knew it wasn't two weeks at that stage but we didn't know. I think we all thought maybe we get some sort of summer summer came and went, and then schools reopened at the end of summer but you know it wasn't the same. The opening as before and then all of these milestones we keep on missing you know the major marketing fairs in September, October. And I think you know we keep on putting these milestones off and off and you know, and there's a reason why is because you know things have changed. We hope 2021 is different but 2021 isn't going to be the exact same as 2019 and, and that's a good thing. You know it's, there's, there's a chance to to evolve here as schools and as an industry. And until you know, learn from a lot of the, you know, either the stagnation or the kind of laissez-faire approach that you know has had been in the industry for a while and just doing the same things and hoping that it's going to going to stay the same. And now is the chance to, you know, in Ireland to maybe to set ourselves, you know, apart from, you know, other competitor markets with the US or Canada or Malta or UK or whatever but you know we haven't even mentioned Brexit which I think this time last year we were all saying you know we've got to prepare for that so that's only seven or eight weeks away as well but I think you'd hope that you know people aren't just crossing their fingers thinking things will get back to normal. We all want things to get better, but I think want them to get back to normal, it seems to indicate wanting them to go back to what they were before, and let's hope that they can get you know they can get better. And that means that way they can improve, you know, and that we can we can all improve and this now has to start a lot of conversations about if online learning is here to stay then let's formalize it let's build it into our quality assurance programs. Does it form part of a future IEM, you know, let's get people trained up in a properly doesn't go into initial teacher training programs. And you know all of these things need to be taught about because what we don't want to do is just, you know, have right QA is here for face to face classes and face to face health and safety and everything here has a, you know, a QA but online. Oh that's just something we did during the pandemic and sure we don't need to worry about it anymore. It is now as you said the genes out of the bottle it is now part of our offerings so I think we need to we need to really start thinking about that as an industry and we need to say well if it is then what's the best way of doing it what is best practice. And how can we how can we learn to to incorporate it in a really in a way that best suits our students rather than just kind of saying thank God we don't need to be on zoom anymore. You know, all of that, all of those things that we did we you know we can we can leave them behind us now we're back to normal no it's, you know it's, it's only going to become more and more as part of a broader kind of learning offering so I think we need to embrace that and, you know why why shouldn't Ireland and you know the LT schools in particular take a lead on best practice in online learning or blended learning if if it's going to form a part of our offering.