 Oh, yeah. Well, it's the right to destroy unions. Well, somebody's got to get on top of it. As soon as we have the final payment to it, then we're going to ask the insurance if we can read the line of code. Because I don't know if we're going to need it. Bye, John. Hello. I'll take a minute to say. I was trying to throw in a few things while learning the ropes here, so. Oh, no worries. No worries. Tell me. Give me a place when I need it. I was trying to do it. No worries. Welcome, everybody. 615 here on my agenda. November 25th. And welcome. Before we start, does anybody have any additions to the agenda that they would like to make? Harlan, I see you do. And Mason, you want to step in front of the camera to speak? Please. Just for my request? Sure. Yeah. You'll be part of the thing here. Yes, I just have a simple request about an AOT map. Thank you. AOT? Yeah, AOT map. What's that? Transportation. All right. So I'm going to start off with the minutes from the last meeting on November 11th. And I did make a few clarifying edits on there just to, there was a lot going on in this conversation. So I don't know if people want me to read out a little. I mean, a lot of this is just grammatical stuff, but I could if you want me to go through it. But Dale will, with these corrections, I mean, I'm just putting in some proper spelling of there instead of there as a place. It's there as a person, stuff like that. So you can all see these when they're corrected and typed up. So I've moved to, Tom, you had a chance to look at them. I've moved to accept these and is corrected. I'll second that. Long paper. All right. Thank you. We've got Joan is not here. She's off on a vacation this week. But basically the update for her work is that she's been working on all the FEMA project paperwork and applications. So that's Joan's report. Is Tony here from the library? No. No? All right. So you're clear. You're into the winter wonderland. Yeah. We've got to remind everybody to not plow across the world again. We just want to say don't write so many bills on your own. It's been a really big issue in this last storm. Really? One in particular. Simply share. I thought the same. I mean, we didn't find them and I went looking for them and I haven't come in. We will explain to them. For Patrick's role. He really had her have gone up to getting up there after he took it down. Turned it to ice. Yeah. She's not worth smashing a truck over. Getting somebody hurt. You know very well. We go through the same. One actually happens. What is this? They tried to get right into ice and then it doesn't peel off. Who presses it all down? Yeah. And you can just get in trouble and really quit. And then trucks are heavy and they take off and there's no stopping them. Is there a problem? Yeah. I went out a couple of days ago. Oh yeah? We had to. You had fun? Went down my hill backwards all the way. No. That was fun. All right. Well, carry on. Thank you. All right. Terry is. Did he get back from hunting in Canada? Yes, he did. He did. All right. But he's not here tonight. So we don't have. He's still deer hunting. He's still deer hunting. Yeah. That time here. All right. So we've got a couple. With contract that we approved the bid last meeting for a music mountain to deal with the sidewalks. And now we have the contract here. I noticed that he didn't get out there today and deal with it. I went and spoke to him and he's still waiting on a part for his tractor. So. So I. He thought he'd have it this weekend. And I understand he was waiting to order that part until he knew he had to contract. So it's. Well, it's supposed to warm up tomorrow. Should melt a lot of stuff on. So. So I'd move to go ahead and sign this. I guess we already accepted the bid. So there's no sense in. I don't know if we even have to make a motion, but I'll make it anyway and sign it. I second it. All in favor. Yes. I don't have too much of a choice. No, we don't. But. I think it's going to be fine. And then we also have the contract for the roadside mowing that we agreed to. The bid at a past meeting. And we've got two places to. So I'd move to go ahead and sign this contract. I second that. All in favor. All right. Who was that regretful time? Music mountain probably. Yeah. Same. Yeah. What was the bid for the amount of money? It's on that one. Yeah. What is the amount? She wants to know on that. Oh. 13. No, that's. I mean, that's the. That's a. This is the snow. That's the. That's the one. 14 950. Yes, ma'am. Come on in. All right. 14 950 is. I'm talking about the music to have roadside mowing. 14 950. Well, she was waiting. I have. All right. And we also have. Find our first application for a roadwork under our. New class for road policy from the loo logging. From. Hancock Vermont for work up on the top of wing farm road, which is basically. Fixing the road and turning water off the roadway. So we can do with logging. And. Move to. Approve that. I would. Second that. David. Hi. Okay. Termination. There's not a termination date. I guess it's, he's, you know, got permission to. Improve the road so he can. Do his. His logging. I would suppose at the end of this, when he's done the logging, you should have an inspection. That's a big law. There's a big law. They're going to go through the other side first. Yeah. You mean I may be able to make a little maple hillside. Right. Yeah. First. I just didn't know. Well, I, I, I saw the machine go up maple hill. So. I think it's, you're right. He's going to start. That location. No, because the next one is before he gets back in there. I didn't know if he needed another. I think that that's. I mean, we haven't really. I don't know if we have to get that fussy about Nancy. Yeah. I think he said it probably was going to be a couple of years. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so this, this just lets us know who's doing any of the work. Right. Right. Right. To be fair to everybody, it shouldn't go on forever. You can fix it forever if you want. Yeah. He's continuing working on the same job. Yeah. Close to, it's the, to the Forest Service. Right. So. Well, the job. It's part of the Forest Service. It's part of the Forest Service project. Right. It's actually overseeing this, as far as I know. Yeah. But this is just in terms of the town, the aspect of the town road. Right. This is just access to it. Yeah. We have, we have to grant the access, but it's the actual logging is on the jurisdiction of the Forest Service. Right. He's going to repair the road. Yeah. But if they go back in there in 20 years for the, you have to get another. Well, if he's going to do, if he's going to have to do significant work. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe that just needs to be clarified a little better. Well, I don't know. I don't know. In what way? I mean. Well, he did. He can fix the road forever for us. Well, back in there, five years from now. Mm-hmm. And say, well, I've done a permit, but he's already done that job. And maybe there's a job right next to it. And maybe you want to do something different in five years. Well, sure. I would read this as he's getting permission to work on the road for this project. And if it comes back in the future that, you know. What's his project? He's completed. How big is his project? Quite large. The logging job is quite large. The project that this application is for is not large. It's just basically he's hardening, putting in some gravel and even out some of the water bars. And so it'll, he can drive through there without getting hung up. I mean, I guess the main condition is that when he's done with the project that there's, you know, that it's doing probably water. Probably water bars. Yeah. Martha? I just want to make sure I get this clear for the first time. Yeah. All right. So the application from blue logging at Kankuk for access to doing work in preparation for a Forest Service project at the top of the informal work, is that correct? To access a logging job, the National Forest, you know, property. Okay. To access a logging job. The swans mill, right? For the Forest Service? Yeah. The swans mill. At the top of Wing Farmer? Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. I see a hand in the corner there. It's me. Yeah. You know, there's, I believe there's a time limit on the amount of time they've got the Forest Service hasn't in the contract. It's either three or five years, I'm not sure which. But it seemed to me that it would make sense to go and give the guy a permit to keep the road open to get his logs in and out. Indurably, he's probably going to have to get back in there with some gravel to fix something, you know. Yeah. Yeah. So why not just make it, you know, for the duration of the time given by the Forest Service to complete the contract? Notes. I would say that. I think it's specific to that road. Yeah. I would say. The writing conditions. Yeah. For the durations of his project and then to be inspected when he's done. Yeah. Go back. Yeah. Yeah. That's reasonable. We'll put that in as a condition. Who inspected? Road commissioner. Road commissioner. Road commissioner. Right? Oh yeah. Yeah. So to find out about the extent of the project and together the Forest Service works, I can see. Yeah. They actually have a map. Yeah. It's a very surgical, selective cut. That's one of the reasons. And there's another one that's even larger. Yeah. It's large. It's not like clear cut or anything like that. Yeah. No. Is everything coming out of that same road? No. No. There's some coming from the other side. Yeah. We're going to access some from Hancock too. I don't know. They just asked us about this. So I added in the conditions for the duration of the logging project and with inspection after the job is done. And we do have this certificate of liability insurance. And it gives us on to the additions. Harlan, do you have something you want to say about the book? I know of none. I was wondering if you were reporting something since you brought it. Yeah. They found it. They were cleaning out their attic. Cleaning. Yeah. Cleaning. Just like we're doing. Yeah. Yeah. And they, yeah. I will tell you, I have one more place to check. Sure. It's a real long shot for any town records. But that would be the office right next door downstairs. What's below us? The American Legion. American Legion. The American Legion room. If I can get in at some point, we should probably just check that. Americans. Well, it used to be the Constable's office. Constable's office. Yep. The boiler room. The Legion is just below us. Yeah. And then the boiler room. The boiler room over here. Yeah. The Constable's office. Yeah. Yep. The library. Nothing of value to us. No. No records were stored in there. Yeah. And Nancy and I, we did some on the weekend searching. And we looked behind books. And we did not find it. We know if there are other books that are missing. No. Has there been a comprehensive catalog of the world? Who's came up? Who's willing to do that? Yeah. So there is a comprehensive catalog of all the... You know, he's cataloged everything. There is little. Yeah. Because it's just maybe what's in the books. You need to verify the dates. No. We could have been bound. Right. We could have been bound. And so the dates may not correspond with what's inside. I see. Okay. So at some point when we have extra time. You just put it on the side. And off I risk to that project. It sounds like it's probably an idea. Yeah. It's kind of common instead of finding funds to help. Well, because... So it's a volunteer project. Sounds like a good intern. Well, this... Yes. I'm afraid. So Mason, you wanted to, as mentioned, is this the same that Harlan was leading to? I just have a simple request in reference to the 2015 AOT map on the wall here. That it's incorrect. Yes. And can we take it down? Because this ruin is used by the public and a lot of people. Look at it. Try to understand what's going on. We did. We took the corrected one down to use for... I think that's in Jones office again, because there was a newly corrected one. Well, why don't we instead of taking it down, why don't we just replace it with the corrected one? Well, that's totally a great idea. Yeah. I really appreciate it. But for the most part, it does... Well, the most part is very wrong. Well, no. For the most part, it's very right. There's a small section that's very wrong. Right. Yeah, that's correct. But not drastically wrong. It's drastically wrong that right now the AOT is still waiting for Hancock to explain TH-18 in three years now, three years running of how this magical situation happened from 2001 to 2017. It sounds like a Hancock meeting. I don't... Yeah. But I just don't want people to have the wrong idea by seeing false information in the public like that. Right. Thank you. Okay. All right. And the other... I did get in the last meeting. There was a lot of discussion around the Class 4 road policy about why we modified it from the VLCT policy. And I do have an explanation from our attorney why he did the way he did it. And I know you guys are interested in it and I can give this to you. I don't know if you want this read in the public meeting, but I know you're at the questions about it. So I'll give you a copy of that. Thank you. Yeah. So, in other words, paying attention. Yeah. All right. This is a copy of an explanation from the town attorney. Right. Right. Going over basically what we talked about last meeting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And really, this is the shortest meeting we've had in months. And we've got something... I think it's really helpful things in that letter that should be shared. And since it's being recorded, it should be on record. All right. Well, I'll read it since we have plenty of time. Can I have it back? Yes. It's 125. All right. So this is from Jim Barlow, who we've been using as our town attorney. So these are his words here. By the way of background, in the area of Vermont municipal government for the last 15 years, including nine years as a staff attorney for VLCT, I regularly counsel town managers, select board members, road foremen, and others involved in managing and maintaining town highways. In addition to advertising municipalities on all matters of town highway issues, I have been a speaker at numerous town highway conferences around the state. Most recently in 2018, I gave five regional presentations on highway right-of-way issues under the municipal roads general permit. The model policy that I provided to the Rochester Select Board is based in part on the VLCT model policy. It includes additions and changes that reflect my professional experience with class poor town highway issues and changes to reflect the implementation of the municipal roads general permit. I originally developed the policy for a specific client town and have since modified it so it can be adopted by other towns. I believe it to be a significant improvement over the VLCT model. The purpose of this policy is to protect the public investment in a town highway system was included to give specific recognition to the fact that the town highway system is every town's most expensive and valuable public asset. Town highways comprise 85% of the roads in the state of Vermont. Annual expenses related to maintaining and repairing town highways typically comprise 50 to 60% of the town budget. In almost every Vermont town, the majority of the town's employees are involved directly or indirectly in the management and maintenance of the town's highways. As anyone experienced in Vermont, local government knows because they are usually remotely located and not as frequently traveled as other highways, class poor town highways are often abused and damaged, especially during mud season and occasionally at significant cost to the town and the public. For several reasons, including in some instances commercial scale maple sap production, this seems to be an increasing problem. While historically maintenance and repair of class poor town highways has been discretionary, quote, to the extent required by the necessity of the town, the public good and the convenience of the inhabitants of the town, 19 VSA 310B, under the municipal roads general permit, towns will soon be subject to maintenance standards for class poor highways. Compliance with the MRGP standards will only increase the need for protection of a town's investment in its class poor highways. The concept of protecting the public investment in class poor town highways is embodied in Section 3, which includes a list of some of the statutory tools available to a select board to protect class poor highways, i.e. special gross weight limits, temporary travel restrictions, temporary permits, bonding, et cetera. The concept of protection is also embodied in Sections 6 and 7, which set standards for private improvement and maintenance of class poor highways. Restricting or prohibiting motor vehicle travel on a class poor town highway is not as simple or as clear as the VLCT model implies, hence the need for different language. The statutory authority of a select board to temporary restrict travel on a class poor highway imposed barriers and post signs indicating the road is closed, clearly recognized under the statutes cited in the Rochester policy. The statutory authority to entirely and or permanently prohibit a restrict motorized vehicle travel on a class poor highway as suggested by the VLCT model language is much less clear and probably doesn't exist. For example, by statute and ATV or snowmobile, both motorized vehicles can be operated on any town highway that is not being maintained during the snow season. That's a 23356B1A and 326A2. There is nothing a select board can do to prohibit this. In my opinion, a select board does not have the authority to unilaterally and permanently prohibit all motor vehicle travel on a class poor highway. My recommendation has been that if a select board is considering permanently prohibiting motor vehicle travel on a specific class poor town highway, probably can only do so on a seasonal basis, example December to May and only by adoption of an ordinance which is subject to permissive referendum, i.e. voter petition in a town meeting vote. That ordinance would need to have exceptions for, among other things, snowmobiles and ATVs and allow persons owning frontage on highway to use the road by motor vehicle even when it is closed to motor vehicle travel by the general public. This comes from the holding in Okimo Mountain Incorporated versus the town of Ludlow Prohibition of use of a public road in winter represents a taking of a budding owner's property right of access without compensation. So that's um, that was what, did you miss something you want me to read again? I obviously couldn't write as bad as you would guess so I was wondering if it was possible to get a copy of that Sure. Sure. We could do that before you go tonight. Thank you. Thank you very much. And I'll make a copy and then you can have a copy too. Sure. Yeah. Harlan, you want a copy too? Sure. Alright. Thank you for taking the opportunity to talk about that. I appreciate it. It does explain a lot. Yeah. I just um, figured that. Alright. I think that um, I would have one request I one request everybody have a safe and happy Thanksgiving. Yes. Thank you.