 Tonya, volume testing. Sounds good on here. Perfect. Good afternoon and welcome to our long-term financial policy and audit subcommittee. Today is July 13, 2023, and we will now begin our meeting. Recording secretary, may you please call the roll? Chair Rogers. Present. Member Stapp. Here. Member McDonald. Here. Member Hattie. Thank you and always remember to reflect that all subcommittee members are present. Thank you. For housekeeping, as members of the public join the meeting virtually, you will be participating as an attendee. Your microphone and camera will be muted. If you're calling in from a telephone and choosing a piece during the public comment portion of today's agenda for privacy concerns, the host will rename your viewable phone number to resident. how public comment works at each agenda item the item is presented the chair will ask for subcommittee members comments and then open it up for public comment the host and zoom will be lowering all hands until public comment is open for the agenda item once the chair has called public comment the chair will announce for the public to raise their hand if they wish to speak on the specific agenda item if you're calling in to listen to the meeting audibly you can dial star nine to raise your hand the host will then call on the meeting the host will then call the public who have raised their hands public comment will be limited to three minutes and a timer will appear on the screen for the subcommittee members and public to see once all live public comments have been heard the meeting host will read email submitted if you provide a live public comment on an agenda item but also submitted an email email will not be read during the meeting additionally there is one public comment period on today's agenda to speak on non-agenda matters which is item two this is the time when any person may address a subcommittee on matters not listed on this agenda thank you very much will now go top item two public comment on non-agenda items we are now taking public comment on item two non agenda matters this is the time when any person may address a subcommittee on matters not listed on this agenda if you wish to make a comment via zoom please raise your hand if you're dialing in via telephone please dial star nine to raise your hand we have no hands raised and receive no emails thank you continuing to item three approval of minutes we have one set of minutes that is for our special meeting April 27th 2023 are there any changes or amendments to the minutes seeing none we will adopt the minutes as presented moving to item four four point one our Rosalind pavement funding follow-up here to present is assistant city manager Jason nut and Veronica Connor budget manager and they will provide us with information on pavement improvements in the Roseland annexation area good afternoon thank you my name is Veronica Connor the budget manager and I'm just going to be introducing this item today before I hand it over to assistant city manager nut but I just wanted to mention that we are bringing this forward today because at a previous meeting we had a member of the public asked some questions about our Rosalind pavement funding and progress and the subcommittee indicated they would like an update and some more information on this subject so we've put together some information for you the assistant city manager nut will get into into the next slides and Tanya I think you can advance the slide please thank you thank you very much for having me chair Rogers members of the subcommittee Jason nut assistant city manager director of transportation so we've been wanting to try to come and provide an update on kind of the the Rosalind improvements that we've been making over the course of time since we actually annexed the final remaining unincorporated area into the city back in 2017 one of the conditions that we arranged is or negotiated during the course of that agreement was a transfer of funds from the county to the city in an effort to make improvements within the roadway area and work that resulted in was an agreement that six point six two million dollars would be moved to the city in 10 annual installments of six hundred and sixty two thousand dollars a year for the benefit of pavement improvements now the question being what does that mean where pavement improvements and in that particular area there that could be you know just some resurfacing it could be for reconstruction it could be some type of weather or wearing course what it doesn't mean is it doesn't mean we can't you we can't use the money for things outside of pavement and that was very specified through the course of the negotiations we couldn't use the money to build a concrete sidewalk if there was an asphalt walkway adjacent to work we were doing to restore the pavement that was reasonable and was consistent with the agreement type so as you'll see in the second bullet we could do it for a lot of things but it could only be used for an asphalt product in order to go in and the only alteration to that is where an ADA ramp is required we are allowed to rebuild that with a concrete product but only as required there's no there's no supplemental infill and so that kind of limited what we were able to do over the course of time and we've been working on this quite frankly a little slow but we're gearing up we're moving now as far as implementing those funds and so next slide please so just to give you a viewpoint of what that 10 years looks like and and what our anticipated draw down is like I said we started off slow we got money that first year in 2018 we really didn't spend a lot of money we really didn't do it until 2020 and at that point we had our first conscientious project which was the reconstruction of Rose Avenue and Sunset Avenue and that was very significant rose avenues you may if you haven't been down there is a rural street that is connector from Stony Point Road into the community it's heavily used fronted by properties but has very substantial storm drain ditches on either side of the road and so in this reconstruction we had to do quite a bit of work in order to bring that up to some level of city standard recognizing some of the rural characteristic out there and so that was a great investment I'll tell you having been out there that road was really poor condition one of the worst in the areas and why we focused on it initially as we've gone through and I'm and the next four or five slides will start to show you what we've done we've begun to spend these in a rational and consistent way different surfacing types so council member staff you mentioned well what are the different types I'll touch briefly on it but we tried to lump like tight together so that in this one area we could take best advantage of those with the final product ultimately being a complete resurfacing of number of roads which is as you can see coming in 2025 2025 26 is going to be about a three million dollar project and that will be the capstone of everything that we're working on so next slide so in year one as we mentioned 2019 2020 was our first year we rebuilt rose avenue and sunset that was a full reconstruction next slide the next year we came through with a slurry program slurry is a very light asphaltic product that's intended to help rejuvenate the pavement surface itself but really provide a wearing course so these are typically done on streets that are in relatively good condition the attempt is to keep them in good condition we tend to add anywhere from six to 12 years of life every time we do that slurry product and so the streets that you'll see here were with pavement condition indexes of 60 or greater prior to our treatment and our attempt is to try to keep them in good condition the next slide moving forward and this is the upcoming year we're preparing for this cape seal product which is a twofold product it allows us to not only do a a base type of leveling course but then we do a cap or a slurry over the top of that and it's intended to provide that rejuvenation but it's working on roads that have that 45 to 65 pavement condition index and so you'll see there's there's two areas there's an area here over off a Dunn Avenue and there's an area at the back end of of Herne Avenue that we're going to be doing that the first step which is what's going to occur this summer or this fall is we're going to be doing all of the ramps that level of treatment requires through the ADA that we construct curb ramps where they're not up to current standard so that is the work that's going to happen this year with then the cape seal occurring next summer next slide so then the following year we're going to start to do a reconstruction project which is little less than what we're going to get in the following year and you'll see there's some purple lines that exist in the right off the stony point road and on the other side of sabastopol road these are roads that typically have pavement condition that are in failing condition they're generally between a zero and a 40 and so those are roads where we'll actually take the full pavement surface down we'll rebuild the sub base where we have to and then replace the pavement condition back to new in those areas so we're excited to see that happen that work is the process of being designed this winter so that come 2025 it will be in construction next slide then the issue is the the overlay project this is the this is the back end of that three this is that three million dollars and you'll see there's a number of areas that that's populating some up north of third street that was also in the annexation that's the Pearson area and the west six that was part of the annexation area as well you'll see west turn also gets a full overlay there's some areas off of corby avenue that start to get in there as well as some connector streets like i think it's howard uh that connects burbank and mcmin so there's a number of streets that are going to get that overlay in order to be able to restore now what an overlay is is you're not replacing any of the structural you are adding fresh concrete or a fresh pavement over the top to build on that structural section to give it that additional 20 years worth of life it's a great product but that and the reconstruction combined are very expensive and so that's where that big three million dollar chunk is going to come from all right next slide also within the annexation was a shift of funds relating to the roseland lighting district um street lighting has had a number of different lives at one point in time pg&e owned all of the street lights throughout santa rosa as well in the unincorporated areas when santa rosa well in the mid 90s 90s yeah it was the mid 90s i think santa rosa actually moved forward and purchased the street lights from pg&e there was a large statewide initiative we felt pg&e was gouging us we felt there was a better way and a more cost effective way to manage and and move forward with street lighting maintenance on our own so we purchased the street lights from pg&e there are gaps out there where unincorporated areas over pg&e felt that they that they couldn't give us the street lights that remain in pg&e's hands in this particular area in the south part of highway 12 both in roseland unincorporated roseland incorporated and a portion of south park um the county worked with pg&e to establish a lighting district and that lighting district supports and supplements efforts pg&e does to manage and maintain those street lights with the annexation the county has transferred that lighting district to the city so there is a plot of funds that are there to enhance and improve from a capital perspective lighting in there it does grow but it doesn't grow a whole heck of a lot and so this is we're trying to be very careful and cautious how we do this investment right now there is not a plan moving forward to make this investment we're going to be developing a program here in the very new future to see what do we need to do so we've asked the engineering teams to start thinking about community feedback where they've been told lighting is deficient in certain areas particularly from a bicycle and pedestrian aspect and if we were to put out a capital investment this would be a funding source we might use in order to improve some of those lighting gaps and so that's where this particular comes from it is static we don't have an investment strategy yet but we're in the process of developing and next slide that concludes kind of the update here for the rosin pavement like i said it's a slow start i've had a good conversation with council member alvarez about this but assured him that we do have the strategy moving forward and started to outline some of these plans with him and so that's that is where we're at any questions any questions from me appropriate questions yes we're always appropriate to me informational wise what was the logic for pavement only as opposed to being able to improve sidewalks in um purely financial okay what actually i'm gonna go i'm gonna go one step further it was beyond financial so i can't always spend money so we originally made a proposal from a from a public works perspective of a need of about 18 million dollars to bring the unincorporative areas to the same quality and level of infrastructure that the incorporated areas had on average the county countered and the way they presented this kind of what like this we've neglected this area from a pavement perspective standpoint we totally admit that and we should have been x y and z over the course of time however we the county don't build curb gunner and sidewalk we don't build concrete sidewalks we don't add street lighting we just do pavement maintenance and storm drain so when we said we wanted to bring it and elevate it their counter was we would never have done that under our purview and therefore we're only willing to give you funds to bring it to our standard not your standard why would you hear at that point isn't it it's our it's our problem right um it it is our problem and if the attorney's office were in the in the room there's a there's a whole backstory on this negotiation and i won't take us down the rabbit hole that's interesting and and realistically every year i have to call the public i'm also required to call the county's public works director show them our proposal and get approval to facilitate it that way the good news is johannes and i work very well together so that's it's a fairly simple process but there are conditions in there that seem odd but it got us six point six two million dollars that we wouldn't have had otherwise for a community that's in fairly desperate need and in the end what we anticipate the average pavement condition in roseland will likely far exceed the average pavement condition in the city there will still be bicycle and pedestrian gaps that we can't fill but from a pavement condition perspective we'll be in a much better position in that area of town than we would have otherwise but we needed 18 million dollars and we got six correct wondering who negotiated that well we will not get into that during this meeting that is a whole another meeting does anyone have any additional questions regarding the presentation yes question number two yeah um you mentioned that so the slurry adds 10 to 15 years of life did i get that correctly and is it is it capsule or cape seal so so a slurry is about six to 12 the cape seal the cape seal can get you between 10 to 15 depending upon the wear on that street okay an overlay is usually about 20 the way we do reconstruction under our current program we feel we can get between 25 and 30 years on our reconstruction okay average asphalt for brand new the industry says 20 years of life the our specifications we've been exceeding the average and we're working really hard to hold that standard because it's the best use of our limited funds okay um good that's good to have in the back of my mind um third third and final question um and i i'm assuming the council member alvarez has already been in your year about this one um the sabastopol liar sabastopol street lighting um i'm surprised that the number of times that's been mentioned to me um i'm assuming that's part of our thinking so sabastopol road was already a city street it was it wasn't part of the annexation area uh at this time so funds that were brought in here okay couldn't have been used on sabastopol road now what i need to go back and look at is whether the roseland lighting district includes areas of sabastopol road and it might okay it might not include the whole stretch again we did think i mean everything's kind of quilt wise in it when it came to these areas in southwest with the county there's pockets uh all over that that are slightly different than other neighborhoods so i'd have to double check but that would be an area for example if we wanted to invest that half a million dollars we could we may be able to use it on sabastopol road if that's within the district um that's interesting to know i just wanted to flag that sabastopol road hadn't brought up to me i'm assuming you were aware of the the issue that even though there's existing lighting there um it's not satisfactory according to some of these owners yeah we that that particular project there's there's a whole lot of investment evaluation that was done in the way back machine 20 years ago when they did the corridor plan and so the lighting that you see out there was implemented as a function on that uh whether or not it's consistent was whether or not the city and county line existed in a certain spot that's really interesting okay that's it that's it for me thank you thanks for the input though on the on the lighting complaints i'm good all right uh we will now go into public comment for item 4.1 the roseland pavement funding follow-up if you wish to make a comment via zoom please raise your hand if you are dialing in via telephone please dial star nine to raise your hand zoom host are there any is there anyone wishing to make a comment i don't see any hands raised and we've received um yeah there's no one on the no one calling in so thank you um so that will conclude 4.1 we will now go to 4.2 our long-range financial forecast update in general fund revenue overview chief financial officer alan alton will provide an update on the long-range financial forecast an overview of the general fund revenue thank you chair rogers and member of the committee um so we wanted to uh i this was going to be a pretty light agenda today to make it worth your wealth come in thought i would throw some uh fund numbers at you and uh go from here as we round out the the afternoon uh next slide please so um with the adoption of the budget uh we've we've updated our long-range financial forecast so what you have here is the update of that and it includes the actions that were taken at the budget adoption which added about eight hundred thousand dollars to um uh to our deficit uh ongoing um uh the the forecast has the same assumptions as before so what you're seeing are are all of our most likely revenue um estimates and uh known costs that we have going through so it doesn't include labor contracts and uh those things that are unknown um um we did use our fiscal stability reserves uh in order to uh address the the deficit that brought those reserves down to about 24 million dollars um um you know just for reference on that uh if we did nothing and just let this forecast play out the way it is uh we would exhaust those reserves by the end of the forecast so it does eat that up and again that's not addressing labor concerns or uh or labor contracts uh which we will be going into negotiations on that um soon as they expire at the end of this fiscal year and as uh you know what you'll hear from from me and the city manager going forward on this is is that we're this obviously isn't sustainable from a it's just not sustainable um from any standpoint um so uh additional um budget increases going forward uh are going to need to have either a corresponding reduction or an addition in revenue that's the only way that we're going to bring ourselves back and going into the next budget um you know obviously we're going to need to start addressing that now so it's just part of the reality there but that does uh segue into a discussion on revenues so the next slide please so these are our tax-based revenues and if we are going to um these are the the revenues that we actually have the most control over making changes although we do have control over making changes to fees and other charges too but I'll focus mainly on taxes as these are our major sources of revenue um I do not include property tax on that because we we do not make changes to those we can't unless we're going to go out for a general obligation bond but uh uh our major tax sources are there these just show the five years average uh we segregate out the sales tax from our one percent Bradley Burns tax that comes in and then in addition to that we have our general fund add-on taxes so we have um back in 1718 we had one quarter cent uh add-on tax that was general um beginning in I believe it was 1819 uh and in full effect in 1920 we added a second one that was for fire recovery I believe and um and then in 2020 right I think we combined both of them to be measure Q which is just a half cent general tax so we have our Bradley Burns and we have two add-ons one is the public safety one and then one is a half cent general tax as you can see roughly uh a quarter cent uh sales tax runs about 10 to 11 million dollars uh that we get in half cent we're at 23 million our transient occupancy tax well actually we can go on to the next slide I go into more detail there um so this is uh this is kind of what I was heading on before is that in the general fund um you know we have taxes for revenues we have taxes we have fees and other charges for service our fees uh may not exceed the reasonable cost of providing those services so that's why we will do nexus studies we will do other types of fees studies uh to ensure that we're meeting the reasonable cost for performing those services and having our fees um um uh address that uh council can change those uh at the dais uh there are two exceptions uh two taxes that uh um uh that may only let me say that again taxes are increased by the voters uh there are two exceptions to that um you cannot increase property taxes as I mentioned before unless we're doing a general obligation bond and then you have that uh cannabis industry tax that we actually wrote into the ordinance where that may be uh increased by council next slide please so that brings us to our tax uh revenue overview so um our sales taxes as I mentioned before we had the bradley burns one percent sales tax that's basically a point of sales sales tax that comes in our additional amounts uh which were agreed to by voters um and I gave you the mentions there those are actually transaction transaction and use taxes um and those are simple majority for general tax measures our transient occupancy tax right now is nine percent we have two uh um assessments for tourism that are on top of that so we have a three percent bia for san rosa tourism and then we have a two percent for sonoma county tourism so when you when you combine them all together we have a uh 14 percent rate that goes uh uh that um people renting lodging pay however only that nine percent goes into the general fund the nine percent is the lowest in sonoma county I believe um uh we have not raised that in a while um I would I would estimate that if we uh it would be about five hundred thousand dollars a percent I think it comes out to the last time we did an analysis of it um utility users tax so we have a five percent tax it's on telephone electricity gas and in our ordinances video but it's really cable um those uh that tax is capped at a thousand dollars uh um I would pardon by the state no by a spy ordinance um and it's at at that cap our residential customers especially for PG&E never hit the cap uh it's uh we we do have businesses that will actually exceed it um uh they there is a mechanism in place if they realize that they've exceeded the cap they can request a refund and we refund those back um they can also prepay and uh and then that stops the the collection by PG&E uh we did go out and I believe it was 2014 to uh um to address our telephone utility users tax it essentially only taxes landlines it does not attacks uh or tax cell phones or other mobile devices um so we were one of the few cities that's that has a UUT that uh is not modernized um anyway we we tried to modernize back in 2014 um uh there was a pretty uh uh vigorous uh opposition campaign to it and we we lost um to be fair we didn't really put much of a campaign out ourselves uh obviously if we ever went out again we would we would have more of an education effort on that um in my view it's uh it seems like it could be a bit regressive uh if you think of who has landlines and who typically who may not um I mean personally I only have a cell phone I don't have a landline it's not fair that I don't pay into that tax but right now I don't um we have business tax business tax is a tax based on gross receipts for business activity within Santa Rosa um this is capped at 3000 uh what that means is that if you are a very large business or a very small business you're paying the it right up to the same cap so that's that is something that um we have looked at in the past but we have not gone out and tried any type of of um changes to that ordinance with the uh with the voters I I don't think since I've been here we've we've tried that um it gets complicated to try to explain what we're doing and how we would do it I have some ideas on what we could do but um those are still just kind of on a on a whiteboard so um and with that those are those are that's just a really quick broad overview but I think it's important to start bringing up what we what we have uh in front of us to be able to address the deficits that we're going to see and that we'll see for uh the foreseeable future but we need to start getting that plan together to bring things more in line thank you for that presentation do we have any questions yes council member patina already all right um maybe did you mention it but with the changes in the um the long-term deficits is that primarily or that the changes that we're seeing now is compared to the last time that we met or the already council is that probably primarily due to the four positions we had to police department yeah so everything else stayed the same okay uh we changed the first year and then everything else went out from there but yeah it's it's the addition of those positions I just wanted to confirm um and then with the with the detailed revenue chart that was that was interesting the first time I've seen a multi-year projection like this I just want to make sure that I was I was reading it correctly um with this with this sales tax number and granted it's strange five years because you have the fires and you have the pandemic and so it's not a typical um but from a I mean from a when accounting for inflation it looked like our sales tax revenues has been roughly you know flat over the last five years that an accurate way to look at that data yeah well well it's also worth noting that our the Bradley burns is one line item but that sales tax add-on we did have an increase of half of or a quarter percent there between between 1819 20 so that was a big incremental change that's true I was just looking at that while I was just thinking about the Bradley burns I was thinking about the Bradley burns from the end of business tax because the business tax is just for inflation well frankly it's kind of gone down inflation it just adjusted over the past five years yeah then you mentioned the cap three thousand our cap which is helpful so when I look at that business tax does that does that actually reflect a true flat not flat lining of business activity or because it's capped at three thousand do we have enough businesses that have been that are larger that we still have a little bit of an upward trend for business activity so that's part of the analysis that we're we're doing so I've reached out to our consultant to start looking at that but yeah if you figure you know if you've got a cap in there the businesses could be doing great and and what we did see during during COVID we actually saw increases in sales there was one quarter where we did it that was where everything was shut down at the the March or April through June of 2020 where just everything was shut down and and it was the shelter in place orders we saw a decrease in sales tax then however we also saw increases in other areas right there's difference in the Bradley burns is one type but our transaction and use actually comes in a little bit hotter at times and so it's that's why we just kind of take it as a whole and and go from there but in general speaking aside from that one quarter we did far better from a sales tax standpoint than we thought we would or that a lot of the the sales tax experts in the state thought that sales tax in general would do I would say just locally for Santa Rosa alone we did we did quite well get a lot of wine yes that was a big and that was a big boom during that time I remember like the sales tax was huge increase during just well there's a product right and if you think of it this way you have you had that you had online sales went crazy you have stimulus money that went into the economy so people a lot of folks took that and spent it then or they banked it and then spent it later when the inflationary times started going up when inflation skyrocketed that boosted our sales tax numbers right because things are a higher cost therefore a higher sales tax so we were able to we saw a lot of that as now inflation starts to taper off and stabilize and the the stimulus money is no longer out there for the most part we're seeing that's why we're predicting and showing our sales tax from a forecasting standpoint to not go down but to level and the effect of it leveling seems like it's going down right so that's what we're that's what we're dealing with what I would say is that from an overall economic standpoint from from a sales tax perspective Santa Rosa is still a very strong economy from that from there so anyway but but that's the I thought it would be good to show you the past trends we do have some dips that are in there so you kind of have to take that in unfortunately a good straight line doesn't really work too well because you got to factor those other things in but it gives you a sense of of where we're going and you know our our our tourism our our t o t is uh is being boosted because coming out of the pandemic tourism went up and to be quite honest it's still still 1718 that never really caught me off guard about 10 percent yeah non-inflation adjustments in 1718 yeah 1718 also was through the fires we had a lot of people displaced and hotels that were artificially high all the fire departments too that came in to help fight it it's true that's help that's a really good really good information in an anomaly almost every year it seems so that so that wasn't this wasn't part of this isn't part of a long-term decline if you if if we could go out and and and we can do this you can go out and go even further years past and pull a trend line that kind of takes out all of all of those dips and anomalies you're going to see that that we're we're going the way that we should go okay that's reassuring and there should be a bullet point on the slide well and yeah and that's that's a good point I mean we when we go through this we see those things and and the red flags pop up and then you realize as Veronica says we we go look at the dating that's why we had this happen and and that there always seems to be something short-term rentals also came in we're we're I think I mentioned at council that that probably a a million dollars or so is coming in just short-term rentals at all so it's boosting that which is good it it's part of our tourism industry so that's part of of for me from a pure revenue standpoint policy aside that and say all right but yeah and that was me the end of my questions but then just to add a note of encouragement to your to your tax additional tax annuling especially with respect to the the business tax cap um that would yeah I think I speaking for myself I'd certainly be interested in here in in here hearing some spitballing at some point in the future so there there and we will in the future in future meetings uh have those discussions in here as we kind of bring those strategies a little bit more into focus um I have uh brought in uh somebody that we've worked with in the past to try to look at how we could how that would look like and how it would look like uh from an opinion survey standpoint as well so these are all things that are just at the very beginning but we we knew coming out of budget that that we have to now start going full pace into this we're into July right now so we're we've got the people in line that we need to be working with to try to figure out what our next steps are from that standpoint from a budget team standpoint we'll be going to our departments and putting out guidelines that are for flat budgets uh I think we mentioned that before but that's what we're what our next years will be we need to keep our expenditures as flat as we possibly can we need to look as departments um and I think as the council as well when we have problems that are in the community I think our first question needs to be how can we solve this with our existing resources and should we not be able to do that then how do we pivot to adding additional resources knowing that if we don't have the revenue to back it up we're going to have to lose something else so we're into those parts of of that as I received thank you thank you vice mayor yeah it was really around the taxes I think what's helpful to know are the several different taxes that we have how long it spends since the ordinance has been reviewed by council and if there's any caps that are in place and then what ones that we can do by ordinance and what ones have to go out to voters and I think there's so many different ones as you look at the biggest ones I'd be also interested to know on the tot what our surrounding areas are charging if we're at nine percent is hilsburg at 12 or 14 I mean go to anaheim they're like very very high so I think that as we look at other industries as far as tourism goes I would want to know some of those things because nine percent even though you're adding on the other things if you look at the other jurisdictions or even like down in those busy areas we don't have Disneyland but we certainly have the wine industry which is adult attraction so I'm just I'd be curious to know if you're talking one percent can bring in a half a million dollars to our budget that's significant in revenue to me so as you start to do those conversations those would be things I'd be interested in yeah what we will bring back as we start looking at this and and I apologize I do have a chart that shows where we were we've we've done all this in the in the past and so it's just kind of refreshing it I want to say hilsburg is 16 but I'm not a hundred percent sure there um there's city taxes including the other bumps I don't think they have a bia well I know they don't have the Santa Rosa one and they I don't believe they are part of the Sonoma County tourism bia what we will do is is part of that analysis comes into where we where we are in the county overall where and what the what the increase could do and and how that all plays out some of those are are difficult to to gauge I mean if you're in and you want to take into consideration um you know fairness issues right I mean probably where I would come from if we were looking at a business tax or something like that is if we're raising a cap I I would want to you know my initial reaction would be to uh um raise the cap on those businesses that could afford that we don't want to harm our small businesses we we need that as a part of our economy and so there's a lot of thought and analysis that would have to go in then we would come to this body and and go through all of that with you and it would be a recommendation from this group before I would take anything to the council so your questions would be vetted and answered and to your satisfaction before we would ever go to the county or to the council with uh with and it would be your recommendation to move forward with that thank you thanks for the presentation and for yours too Jason any additional questions no uh seeing none um we'll now take public comment for 4.2 which is our long range financial forecast update in general fund revenue overview and there are no hands raised and there's no one calling in thank you um we will now uh discuss any possible uh the items for the next I mean well we came up with a few orders sitting here like you but are there any additional there's no time frame on that but I think as we look at the deficit those are things that I would be interested in in knowing you know you could cut these things or we're going to have to come in with more revenue right that's the decision the council I think needs to be shown yeah absolutely and I think that as so just I do have an item for for august our next meeting is august 10th that's the next regular meeting I do have an item for that to put on the agenda um beyond that we will uh um uh when we are closer with our analysis and we're ready to prepare or present that's when we'll we'll get those on the agenda going out um in october uh the end of october is when you'll have uh the uh update of uh this past fiscal year in that just ended so we'll have our year end um update for you uh we'll have by then we'll our books will have been closed into the auditors and that's our first opportunity to have uh an unaudited but good sense of where we ended the the last fiscal year um but for august uh we will put on the agenda um a discussion on a home loan program uh we should be prepared to talk about that then thank you working on anything anything actually home loan would that would that is it possible to expand that to a more gentle housing assistance small scale uh yes I mean that's that's the general idea uh it's talking about folks who are you know 500 short of their rent oh that's uh okay that what we have um that's a down payment it's more than is it ever done I mean it's mostly it's run through other kinds of federal federal assistance programs yeah most we have items coming to council obviously with the mobile home ordinance right we're talking about small amounts of money we're trying to figure out how to finagle that for you know home loan assistance is it possible to talk about other kinds of smaller so the home so let me be clear the home loan assistance is is more of a uh employee city employee loan assistance that's interesting too yeah so and yeah yeah so that's why I'm sorry I don't mean to be kg about that but I we don't have somebody from the attorney's office here and I'm not sure just how how broad I can be I would just say it's referring to yeah also there are all kinds of housings yeah we we do have through our housing uh housing community services we do have uh housing assistance and we do have a down payment program that that we were doing with PG&E money to fund that so yes oh yes that too through our I was aware there were some programs but yeah um anyway the question answered yeah um my only other suggestion would be that I I miss our macroeconomic speculation we didn't talk about interest rates movements sure how in the union markets yep um that's a joke of course that was my that was my non-serious question for this yeah you're allowed your love one if you can grow more of those in the future I always I enjoyed those no problem well seeing no additional suggestions for agenda items and seeing no additional ends on this agenda we will now adjourn the meeting thank you thank you