 We turn now to our next item of business, which is topical questions. We start with question 1 from Finlay Carson. To ask the Scottish Government what discussions it has had with Dumfries and Galloway Council regarding the closure of the new North West community campus in Dumfries. Cabinet Secretary John Swinney. Presiding Officer, the safety of students and staff is our primary concern. While this is a matter for Dumfries and Galloway Council, we have been in close contact with the council and stand ready to provide whatever assistance may be required. Scottish Government officials have undertaken regular discussions with the council and I have spoken to the chief executive of the local authority to discuss the ongoing situation at the campus. We have encouraged the council to ensure a comprehensive inspection of the condition of the campus is undertaken and ensure that any remedial action is undertaken as a matter of urgency to minimise any impact on children and young people's education. Finlay Carson. The cabinet secretary for that response is almost exactly two years ago to the day that there was the sod cutting and the cabinet secretary said that it marked an exciting milestone for Dumfries. Today, we marked another chapter in the woeful reputation of Dumfries and Galloway Council. Once again, it seems that defeat has been snatched from the jaws of victory. Parents and staff are hugely concerned that the North West community campus is unsafe. We have seen ceilings collapse, a door injuring a child after coming off its rails and the latest incident saw a child hit by a falling electronic whiteboard. That was after a council officer gave assurances that, and I quote, we have probably done far greater levels of checks now than you might normally have done. Local people appear into demanding answers. Will the cabinet secretary back my calls for a full public inquiry into what has gone wrong at this site and commit to investigate any issues that have risen at any other Government-funded schools for the future campuses? There are a number of elements in Mr Carson's answer, and I will work my way through them. First, I said in my original answer that the safety of students and staff is the absolute concern. The local authority must satisfy themselves that all scrutiny has been undertaken to ensure that the quality of the building is as it should be. Having discussed this matter with Dumfries and Galloway Council, I have seen extensive work that has been undertaken to secure the necessary confirmation that the standards of the building are as they should be. Quite clearly, that has not been satisfactory. The council must—I know that they are intent on doing this—hold the contractors to account, because they are contractual issues. None of those things should be anticipated or expected in the delivery of a school building, so the contractor must be held to account on all of that, and the local authorities will meet the contractor at very senior level tomorrow to discuss those questions. On the latter part of Mr Carson's question, there will have to be investigations into what has gone wrong here. There will have to be transparency around those issues, and from the Government's perspective, I would expect that to be the case, to ensure that we have full information on the issues that have gone wrong here. At a very late stage in the contract, it certainly appears to me to provide the reassurance that parents, staff and pupils and the local authority have the right to expect. With regard to safety checks, Dumfries and Galloway Council's website shows that a building completion certificate was granted for the project on 20 July. Five days later, a ceiling collapsed at the building after an issue with the sprinkler system. I am not a builder, but I would imagine that if this school had been filled with pupils and staff, at that time it would have been disastrous. The council website states that building regulations are in place to make sure that buildings are safe. It strikes me that the process of the council awarding completion certificates to projects that it has a vested interest in, particularly when they are behind schedule, could be open to suggestions of possible and potential conflicts of interest. Will the Deputy First Minister give assurance that the process will be reviewed when we are looking at the process of deeming whether buildings are safe for use? It is really important that we remember what is the purpose of the certificates that are issued by local authorities. It is to provide confirmation that buildings have been built to the necessary standards and to provide clarity and reassurance on that to members of the public. A local authority has a statutory duty to undertake that task, independent of whether it has an interest in the building. It must provide that assurance. Certainly those issues that are raised by Mr Carson are legitimate points to be raised in the discussion that we have about the safety and security of buildings, but what I would say to Mr Carson at this stage and to say to Parliament is that fundamentally we rely on contractors doing the job that they are contracted to undertake. Fundamentally that is the issue and yes of course there have to be checks to make sure that that has been done. At this stage it seems to me pretty clear that contractors have let the local authority down and the contractors must be held to account for what has happened in this case. There are four other members who wish to ask a question on this. If we are to have a chance of getting to each of them, I would ask all members to keep their questions and ministerial responses short. Emma Harper. It is extremely concerning that this is the second incident in a three-week period that has resulted in the safety of children and indeed all building users being compromised. Can I therefore ask the cabinet secretary what action the Scottish Government can take to ensure all future public building works in the south west of Scotland and indeed across Scotland are inspected and thoroughly checked to ensure that they are of the optimal health and safety standard before they are signed off and open to children, teachers and the wider public? Presiding Officer, the health and safety work act places a duty on all owners of buildings to ensure that their premises are safe and without risks to the health of anyone involved. In addition to that requirement, which applies across all bodies and should apply across the south of Scotland, public sector bodies procuring construction works must have regard to Scottish Government construction policy note 1 oblique 201 2017. That provides guidance for contracting authorities on making appropriate arrangements for the independent inspection of construction activities. That guidance was prepared following the publication of the report on the independent inquiry into the construction of Edinburgh schools, the co-report, which was reported prior to that notice being produced. Colin Smyth. We have now had three incidents at the new campus despite assurances being given to the council on a number of occasions by the private contractors, Graham and developers hubs south west at the building, was safe and the councils now had to bring an independent third party to check the school, which may result in further problems being discovered. They have issued the extraordinary statement that they have lost complete confidence in both the contractor and the developer. Does the Deputy First Minister have confidence in Graham and hubs south west? Does he share my concern that we appear to have a Government developed procurement process for new schools that does not appear to properly hold private contractors to account for serious breaches of safety? I expect private contractors to be held to account for contractual failures, which has been the heart of my answers to Mr Carson today. I am clear to the chief executive of the local authority when I spoke to him that I expected the private contractor to be held to account, because this is very basic elementary stuff that no contractor should be failing on in terms of the provision of public sector buildings. There are contractual arrangements. I have seen documentary evidence of the local authority being assured by the private contractor, and I will quote from this letter. Graham gives you, this is a local authority, an unequivocal commitment to provide the council with the facility that it expected to have when we entered into the contract. That is an unequivocal commitment, which I would expect Graham to be held to. In all those matters, I think that there is a pretty simple answer. When people are contracted to build buildings to a certain standard, they should do it. That would save the pupils and the staff of the north-west campus the great deal of uncertainty and inconvenience that they are facing as a consequence of those issues. Joan McAlpine Professor Cole also produced a report that exposed the failings in the way that Dumfries and Galloway council officers monitored the contractors at the DG1 leisure centre, which was closed for safety reasons. Does the minister share my concerns that lessons have not been learned from that report? It is important that, when there is material such as the Cole report produced that we follow and observe those recommendations and the issues that are raised. What strikes me in the information that I have seen in relation to Dumfries and Galloway council's handling of the matter is that it has been given a range of different assurances by the contractor. It has sought to verify those assurances and the fact that we are where we are today demonstrates that that process has not been as effective as it should be. I would expect Dumfries and Galloway council to be looking very carefully at the material from the Cole report and particularly in relation to that process, ensuring that there is effective scrutiny put in place to protect the public interest and to protect the safety of members of staff and pupils at the north-west community campus. Professor Cole told the local government and communities committee last week that it is possible for anyone—mysel, for yourself, Mr Swinney—to sign a completion certificate. You do not have to have any level of expertise. Anyone can do it. That is wrong, isn't it? I certainly would not be signing off a completion certificate on a building. I think that what is important is that any public authority that has a responsibility for the construction of a building makes sure that there are the appropriate expertise within the organisation to ensure that that process is undertaken satisfactorily and in accordance with the requirements of statute. Local authorities and other public bodies must take account of their responsibilities in statute to ensure that they are signing off particular commitments or agreements that they have taken into account of their statutory responsibilities in that respect. I should first declare an interest as convener of the cross-party group on animal welfare. To ask the Scottish Government whether it will ban the export of livestock for fattening for slaughter. I am aware of Christine Grahame's long-standing interest and commitment to animal welfare, and I know that that is an issue that she has raised in the chamber on a number of occasions. I really just want her to know that I share her passion for the welfare of animals, and that is why, in the care of livestock in all circumstances, we adhere to the highest standards and regulations as issued by the EU. The Government recognises, as does the dairy sector and the NFUS, that the issue of male dairy calves is very complex. It is not a black-and-white situation. Male dairy calves are currently of no real productive value in this country, so they either end up being slaughtered at birth or exported to other countries, including continental Europe. No one is very comfortable with that situation. We will work with the sector to look at other options. I am pleased that the Government is supporting the ethical dairy, which is taking a very different approach to dairy cows and their calves. I want to make Parliament aware today that P&O ferries have confirmed that they will no longer be transporting live calves from Scotland, which are destined for continental Europe. They have said that they were shocked by the scenes in last night's BBC documentary, and that has influenced that decision. I, too, was shocked by the scenes that we saw in the documentary last night, but I have to emphasise that there was not anything in that that suggested that any harm had been done or that there was any breach of any welfare standards by anyone transporting the calves from Scotland to Northern Ireland, Ireland or to continental Europe. I am concerned about the decision that has been reached by P&O. I will urgently seek to find out more information about that, because, obviously, we need to determine that there are no other impacts to live transport of animals to Northern Ireland or Ireland, not indeed for the operation at Cairnryan more widely. I want to reassure everybody in this chamber today and elsewhere that this Government remains absolutely committed to ensuring that livestock in Scotland are reared, transported and treated throughout their lives humanely with respect to the highest possible welfare standards. Just as I made clear to the BBC Scotland in my interview for last night's documentary, if anybody has any evidence that that is not happening, I would hope that they would come to me with that information. Christine Grahame I welcome the minister to a portfolio and thank her for a very thoughtful and extensive reply, and make it plain that I do not blame the farming community or indeed P&O lines were shipping to Northern Ireland, and I understand EU restrictions. I am pleased to hear her reflect on ethical farming, such as David and Wilma Finlay run at the farming gate to the fleet. The question for the Government is this, and I ask them whether they agree with me on this. Our concept of animals now as a sentient being has changed our whole concept of animal welfare. There remains widespread concern about the removal of bull calves, weeks old from their mothers, distressing for both, transporting them in some cases over six days, whether or not they agree with the conditions from Scotland, not of course England, to be fattened and slaughtered. My question to the Scottish Government is in all these circumstances notwithstanding the welcome words of the minister and I hope that we do make progress, can her Government guarantee the welfare of these calves from removal from their mothers to export through fattening to dispatch in whichever country that takes place? That is the issue, guaranteeing their welfare throughout. Thank you. That is exactly what we are trying to do. This is something that I am passionate about and that I very much care about, because it is the welfare of the animals that is of paramount importance here. That is why the Scottish Government has undertaken a project that started in January of this year and is due to run until January next year, where we are monitoring every single stage of that process to ensure that we are adhering to the highest welfare standards that we possibly can and to make sure that we do not end up in a situation where animals are being mistreated. I have to emphasise that. Throughout the project so far, as far as I am aware, there have not been any instances of that, but that is exactly why we are undertaking this work, to ensure that that does not happen. I completely understand how emotive the issue is that there are a lot of strong feelings around it, especially when we look at the number of days or the number of hours that it has seen that animals have to be transported. Within that, I emphasise as well that half of that time is taken for the resting of the animals, too. It is not as straightforward as sometimes it is made out to be, but we are absolutely committed to upholding the highest animal welfare standards. That is why we are undertaking this project, so that we can ensure that that is being done. Thank you very much. I did not really hear a further response to my question about the ethical farming run by the Finlay's at Gatehouse of Fleet. It seems to me that, if that is replicated throughout Scotland, whether or not there is a band becomes irrelevant, because we will not be using that practice. Ethical farming, where farmers get a proper price for their milk produce, where the bull carves are reeled on the farm until they are six months old and slotted in Scotland, removes all necessity for worrying about their transport and what happens when they leave our shores. I would reflect back to my opening statement, because, again, the situation that we have at present is something that no one is happy with. Ideally, we would have a situation in which animals are reared and slaughtered as close to where they are produced as possible. We are currently not in that situation, but that is why I support and the Scottish Government supports the ethical dairy and why I am keen to engage with the dairy industry and dairy farmers to see whether there is something that we can do about it. Again, I would be happy to meet members in the chamber and, again, I will be looking to actively engage with the dairy sector so that we can investigate. I know that other members probably will have been sent the briefing that came around from the NFUS today, where they said that the Scottish dairy industry is actively working to reduce the number and find alternative home markets. I would endorse that and support that work, and that is really what we are keen to do. Welcome. We have always had very full questions and very full and detailed answers, which we welcome by all members. However, there are five more members. There is a huge amount of interest in the subject. I think that there is a chance of getting through all five, but if we have six sync questions and six sync answers, we will get through a few. Mark Ruskell first. The minister has just repeated the assertion that she made on the BBC last night, which is that she had no knowledge that those animals were being transported to North Africa. I find it difficult to believe, given that a letter was sent to the First Minister detailing those transports back in the spring. Does the minister now acknowledge that there is a huge difference between a ferry trip of sheep from the Shetland Isles and a 135-hour journey that sheep and dairy calves are making through to Spain and onwards to Africa and that a ban on live exports will not lead to a ban on imports of cattle and sheep within the UK? I would highlight that one thing I specifically asked the BBC for when I undertook that interview was if they had any evidence of our cattle being transported or ending up in countries outside the EU to hand that to us. As yet, I have not received any evidence to that. As I said, we are undertaking this project, which is running for a year, to monitor the situation to see exactly what is happening. As a result of that, I have not seen any evidence that that is what is taking place, as the member suggests. Again, if there is evidence to the contrary, I am happy to receive it. Parliament requires me to make a declaration of my interests, and I wish to do so slightly longer than I would normally consider the emotiveness of the subject. I am part of a family partnership producing beef cattle. We sell breeding cattle mainly within the UK and Ireland. The disclosure programme aired last night does not accurately reflect the high standards of welfare within the industry in Scotland that I have known and worked in for the 39 years of my working life. I would like to ask the minister, will she be working with the UK Government to ensure that the high standards that are practised in the UK in our farming industry are replicated across the world? I thank the member for that question. I heart back to the project that we are undertaking, because that is exactly what we want to do. We have a pride record of animal welfare standards in Scotland at the moment. I believe that the study is the first of its kind anywhere else in the world. We could well learn lessons from that and therefore improve the legislation and the regulations that we have at the moment. It is absolutely of paramount importance to me that we maintain high standards in Scotland, so of course I will be doing everything that we can regardless of what happens to Brexit to make sure that we maintain those high standards. In this chamber, on 6 June, I said to Fergus Ewing that the concern is not about direct exports from Scotland but about Scottish animals ending up in Spain and North Africa for slaughter. He avoided answering my question and checked the official report. There is an alternative to slaughtering calves at a few weeks old. That is to rear them here for veal production and to promote this for the UK consumer. The minister has just said that she will do everything that she can to maintain high standards. Will the Scottish Government take positive action to promote the consumption of Scottish veal by the UK consumer so that we can make this productive for farmers? I thank the member for that question. As I said in an earlier answer, I am absolutely open to looking at all alternatives and engaging with the industry to see what we can do. Again, it is a situation that not everyone is happy with, and I am absolutely committed to doing that and engaging with the industry to see how we can move forward positively. Claudia Beamish Building on the previous questions, last night's BBC disclosure programme highlighted, as we have heard, the Galloway farm of Wilmer and David Finlay, who are visited in South Scotland. They have an ethical system, and the losses from the lower milk yield through selling the male cows at 18 months, instead of them either being shot or birthed or transported at up to four weeks, could make up the difference. In the interim, will the Scottish Government consider the possibility of supporting the development of these herds through possible transition subsidies? Will the minister agree with me that surely the only way to stop this is to ban live exports as Scottish Labour and some other opposition party such as the Greens think that we should be doing? The issue is not as black and white as that, because we export animals for a whole variety of different reasons. As far as I am aware from some organisations, we transport animals for further production, we transport animals for breeding as well, which I believe is something that not all organisations have an issue with. When it comes to the ethical dairy, there is business that I have yet to meet, but I am very keen to meet them and to do that as soon as possible. Again, when it comes to alternatives, as I said in previous responses, I am happy to investigate this and to look at other alternative solutions so that we can find a positive way forward. I have listened carefully to Christine Grahame's questions, as well as the minister's response, and I would be happy to introduce her to David and Wilma Finlay for a visit to the south-west. I am interested to know whether the minister is supporting the NFU Scotland's call for sound science and existing standards to be the basis of discussions prior to any changes to live export regulation. Again, I talked about the Scottish Government project that is currently under way, and I would reference that again. That is exactly why we are undertaking that work to actually get all that scientific evidence, to get the data, to see what improvements we need to make, if any. I also gratefully accept Emma Harper's invitation to visit the ethical dairy. Again, that is something that I am keen to do and to look at all those other alternatives. Thank you very much, and that concludes the topic of questions. I thank all the members and the ministers, in fact, for extending what was clearly a lot of political interest.