 Yes, so we sent out the title of this as training for male allies, and I thought, oh gosh, doesn't it sound like we're like starting distance at you or something like that? It's supposed to be a fun thing where, you know, you're standing around and someone says something really embarrassing or stupid and you're like, oh, I don't know what to do. And so this is supposed to be a fun and amusing sort of thing to learn about. So let's have some fun. Okay, so most of the time these sort of presentations are geared towards women. Here as a woman, here's how you can bring your resume. Here's how you can respond to somebody saying sex is to you. Here's how to succeed in open source, which is basically like be incredibly awesome and kick ass, which is important to do, but it's not. I mean, that's a lot of responsibility going on. The 5% of people at open source who are women, maybe the 95% of people who are men, we should make some effort in that direction as well. I just think it's a little more effective. And I'm trying to find a really better way to say this than magic and sparkles, but they seem to work out. The reality is that as a man, you have extra special powers when it comes to saying things and being heard. I'm convincing people to do things, especially when they're in the realm of sexes. I mean, you automatically get a pass. A woman says anything. A man says something about sexism and he's considered brave and often gets applause. So I've seen this more than once. By the way, every single thing I say in here is based on a real-world experience. At Grace Hopper, a man said something like happiness and light and women, of course, are humans and literally got innovation. Everyone in the room. That's a really low bar. So why are you so many of them men as women? They're limboing under the bar. So I just want to say, you know, you actually do have an advantage here. The shape of your sexual organs does give you power. Go for it. Use it. That's what it's there for. All right, so I'm very glad all of you came today. I understand that we're not going to answer all of your questions. So we just need to actually, you know, make some get-through-the-role-playing part if we try to explain feminism the basics of their fortune for that. We're not going to get anywhere today. So I totally understand if you're interested in more. The best thing you can do is go to this wiki page here. I'm being feminism wiki. Resources for men. This is a really great list of resources. I don't know if you're ready or not. It starts out with, don't go ask a woman an open source to explain an open source. Please. It's like, really, there's the internet out there. And we collected it right there on that webpage. The other thing that we're not really going to talk about today is what women can do in response to sexist incidents. That may happen, but it was interesting trying to come up with examples and not then think, oh, what should I do? That's just something we'll talk about some other time. I really want to focus on the idea that it's not women's job to fix sexist behavior. We may happen to be working on it. In fact, we sort of don't really have a choice. But morally speaking, it's everyone's responsibility to work on this. Let's focus on what guys can do too. Okay, so role playing. I'm going to say that every single one of these examples and every single one of the responses, except maybe some of the funny ones, I've actually seen in the real world personally, it's not exaggerated. I'm really sorry. At the Great Topper conference, they had some men running through role playing sessions and things like sitting in a meeting and saying some ideas. Susie says, XYZ. Later on, John says, XYZ. And everyone's like, great idea, John. Some people thought this was exaggerated. It's just exactly how it is. There's going to be multiple role roles. Not all the roles are going to be the good guy. There will be roles for women there. The format usually is because this is what a male ally can do. It's either a man, a woman, and a male ally. Or it's a man and a male ally. Some of them will be multiple. Please don't have long... I'd love to hear your examples and your ideas and shout out. This is the time that you should shout out your snapping comments, for sure. But don't tell long stories. I can't talk that far. Oh, sorry. Don't have all the large scribes. I said this earlier in the beginning of the talk, but I just want to reiterate. I know it's really scary talking about things to do with sexism and gender equality and feminism. I mean, they're incredibly hard to talk about. We're going to be nice to you if we're not well. I have to promise to be nicer than I mean it, but I will apologize. But nobody will think that you hold the opinion you have just expressed. I'm going to be reloading the wiki. We've already got some sample responses in here. I've actually got a couple of questions that I don't have a good response for. Okay, and I want to know that if you like the work that we're doing here, this is only possible because I don't have a job. And I would love to have a job doing this. So would Mary Gardner, so please come speak to us. All right. So this is a, I need examples for this one. A woman walks up to your group at a conference, so I need a group. Is it an old member? Yeah. I haven't played along. The messages may not be clear. If we had, if we had, perfect. I should have thought about that. If you're a man walking like that. Did you sit down? I had to sit down. What are you saying? I didn't know that. I didn't know that. Yes, I am. Oh, do you want to do it that way? Yes. These words. That's right. Let's go. I mean, we used to draw the angle of my abs. Okay. So while they're getting sorted and braided, we captured the really good physical messages. But I was going to get the guys kind of, you know, which is pad. It's just a little bit easy to have multiple people at the same time. We get conflict. So it's like, I'm actually just being lazy. So I get you to help me scratch. Okay. Have you liked the partners program? Yes. How's it going? There's some good stuff. It's good. This is a fairly common sort of thing. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Transfer. Are you ready? Hi. How's it going? I think you get my heart up. Good. That wasn't hard. I have one left I forgot to give out, which is take a photo. Alright, thank you all. Keep your straps in the paper. Awesome one. Hi. Hi. Just a quick question for everyone. There's a lot of talk in the audience that's going on during the role play. So what I can hear from even in the middle of the room is a person walks up to another person. Oh. I think we need to speak up. Yeah. Try not to talk during the role play. If you're talking, shout it out so we can hear. Okay. One, two, three. I need a five. Okay. Yeah, three. And we can do, it's too hard to do the matter. Are you ready? Thanks. For the next one, you can line up on the wall. I'm just kidding. So that we don't have to spend so much. Okay. Okay, I'm going to be able to... Okay. Okay. That's nice. You're only mine. Okay. This is mutual. Okay. Okay. Okay. I have to give the real-world example on this one because it's so awesome. Randall Schwartz has something to say to you about Loot Pays. Which is that they are vitally necessary to his business and without them he will lose money. So someone pointed out here I know that only one man so far has stepped forward here to call out another on derailing his discussion, et cetera, et cetera. I think the important thing here is that the only, you know, no one is saying anything. And I want to say this is very important and I understand it entirely because if you've learned anything about women in open source you've learned to generally not say things. But this is a point where you really need to speak up. About what you personally want. That men want this. That's the point where you can say actually I'm a man and I don't want Loot Pays. They make me feel weird. Okay. Just a very quick, great, totally agree with that. At a technical presentation a few years ago our company had Loot Pays that they were actually dressed properly with probably tops and jeans on and we had men come up to us and say, right, this is lovely. It's really nice to see girls who look good and who are intelligent who are trained and what they were talking to people about. They weren't just standing there scheduling play, giving out air fresheners and stuff. I've actually got a lot of really good responses for that. I must have Loot Pays. I don't like Loot Pays. Loot Pays are a vital to my business. Actually it makes me less likely to want to buy. Do you like a Booth Bay Jimmy Randall? It's a response to that one which I've been doing a few times but I don't think it's actually what we want. It's kind of the inappropriate but it was suggested on Booth Bay that I don't think we can have safe toys. I think it is a valid point to bring up. It's like, oh, it's actually attractive to whom? Yeah. Because if we're talking to me we can get a different answer about that. When I was with Send Mail at one point we talked about, well, if we had to have Booth Bay to make the sales people happy we have transvestites. Whether or not she's pregnant, who is standing at a technical stand is a Booth Bay. It's an interesting litmus test so I think I'll continue myself. It's like this. Do I have to say hey, you know, I don't think the Booth Bay is very appropriate. And someone says well, what about, you know, attractively dressed women? And you're like, well, it's interesting that attractively dressed women and Booth Bays are identical in your mind. Thank you for letting me know. It's just a, yeah, there's actually an enormous difference between Booth Bays. So, I like to have some examples which are unequivocal. I don't know if you want to share them. Which one were you thinking of? Any of the nearly naked ones. Any of the nearly naked ones. Oh, thank god. I did hear back from the people at open source days, Denmark and they did get quite a lot of comments about the topless women when marketing's live and spray-painted on their breasts. And they are not going to do that again. Female employee and she's marrying, I don't know, a skirt. We're actually going to be able to tell if it's cool, you can invite your sisters. It's a ridiculous amount of scare-tack that's going on. Okay, due to your pornographic presentation. So, I decided to make this slightly more complex. They showed up pornographically. So, we may have gotten to the point now where we sort of know how to handle a pornographic presentation. I just want to point out that there's now this trend towards asking your permission before doing the pornographic presentation. So, I should not change anything. Well, yep. Do you want permission to show it? It's an agreement that the process where the King Arcade Expo was one of the largest. Now, one of the largest technology expoes, gaming expoes in North America. They actually had 75% of all people at the conference to say, like, do you know for creative writers? Wow, which conference was that? PAX. This is sort of the feeling I've got, so especially there's still some biggest conferences, especially about how a lot of this sort of thing is going on. What I find is that often there's this like separate group of marketing people sitting over here who are like, let me imagine what programmers like. I know a live goat. I'm not making that up either. That's real. I think we're going to suffer. I'm going to make a sketch of the termination to be true. It's probably worth noting because I think it's already been mentioned a few times and many of you have already seen that it's important not to make fun of other people in order to be able to point about sexism. So, particularly making fun of trans people or making fun of gay people is not cool in order to make something like something like you know just yeah, so those sort of like something on the lines that we often do with being gay in this situation is something on the lines of imagine if you were a gay guy and that would be uncool, right? Yeah. Well, don't be uncool like a gay man. Yeah. So, you've got to be a little bit careful around making cracks about man dressed as women or men who have sex with men or women who have sex with women because there's a reference to someone who actually is attracted to trans women. Really, that is bringing out the that's trying to bring the absurdity out. Okay, if we are talking about this you know, I'm just trying to get your things, you know. I think it's a really important point I'm totally very generic. Some of the most amusing conversations on this topic I've had after Ila who as a community I was quite proudly out on campus in my computer because we have the most inappropriate conversations and our other male friends get really close with us. Yes, we do. Yeah. I think it's really important that we don't diminish the role of sexuality in this debate because it's actually part of it and what it tends to get very kind of sterile and all sexism is bad and we can't possibly talk about sex at all because, you know, sex is an advanced skill and we're not going to publish a practice at this number. So, yeah, I want to agree with that but we just have to, like, yeah. It's only balanced, right? Yeah, I'm not going to try to it's a little bit, I think that's feminist and giraffes. I guess the basic point is don't use fear of being gay or fear of dressing as a woman as a way of showing a man. You might as well be a girl because that's really bad. Then you just shame on other people. I have a pretty good example that Purely Robert gave me just got you know, she said hey, you know, maybe in reference to the enhanced path down in the US. You know, go there and pretend that you're enjoying it, right? She's like, yeah, I'll do it. And someone said, well, why didn't you do that? Well, I would still be sexually harassing the TSA agents and that's just not the right thing to do. It's a joke but you can't use those tactics, the same tactics of your enemies on your side. One of the issues I have with martial arts is it's great that the good guy happens to be better martial arts. There's still a lot of ways to describe martial arts. We do really need to move on. We will probably have time. When's the end of it? At 5.30. Well, we'll move on and we'll come back. For this one, what you're going to give is a great man of benefit and silence. No. Do you want to volunteer? I was going to suggest to come back but let's do it first. You can do your own comeback. This is a non-speaking part, would you like it? Yeah. This is also a non-speaking part. This is a white hat part. What? It requires someone with physical economy skills. Nope. Nope. Excellent person on this thing. So this is my line, isn't it? Oh, and I want to say this is also a real situation. So they told him that you can't stroke pornography. So he said, show of hands. Who wants to see pornography? Or didn't want to. We'll be uncomfortable with seeing pornography. Several people raised their hands, including Mary and Melissa Draper. So he was like, oh well, I'll skip this slide because I don't know how footwork works. I couldn't skip this slide without rendering it and it was very prepos-heavy. So basically there was a slow motion of pornography drawn out. Yeah, so. But we had some practice with earlier versions of this. So I'll let Mary tell us. Hey, I have a straight pornography presentation. Take this presentation any better. Who thinks? That's the same question that's said. I'm just responding to the feedback. We were discussing sexual harassment at conferences and what to do. A number of people said the solution was to just beat him up or taste him. And Mary wrote a great article about this in which I saw this vision of Mark Schuller standing on stage saying something stupid and a line of women just brought him up. I still want a snappy comeback. I'm the organizer and I'm stuffing this presentation. I'm afraid he wouldn't So basically what's happened is this has happened enough times that we actually have this practice response now that is hey, something crazy is happening. I don't have to be part of it. Walk out. So the minimum you can do is walk out. If you're an organizer you can say something. You can raise your hand because this is perfect. As an organizer I'm totally paranoid that someone will do this and we have to jump up and turn off their screen and all the sort of things. And we've warned people. Incredibly paranoid. Apparently it's just happened on one committee. I would say that it wasn't a organizer. One thing we're doing is yes, walk out but if you're an organizer you can be on the outside of the room. So as you go on the ride and say hey, this is just happening. You need to do something. Sorry. Sorry. Tell the organizer. It's something we're asking to deal with because I'm part of the conference organizing team. It's a very informal very anti-authoritarian conference. And if you go everyone will just go or we will see some of your comments. And I don't know you'd be surprised how many people are going to agree but it's more than because the way the conference is hatched coming down and looking like a they'll obviously come down and look like a school feature it's not going to fly. Can you do a survey or something? Survey the audience of your conference and say how many people will be by any more democratic. That's a dark point of this exercise it's not a democratic affair. We have projected 97k. That's right. It's not enough. It's not enough. I think it's somewhere to pitch it. Let's talk about that later. There's great in response to the recent Arizona shoes. Good one. Yeah, I had a sense of topic but at least one of the politicians has come out with a response of freedom of speech is not freedom from consequence and that's primarily the way you've got to get it across. Yeah. Okay, I just want to say that DEF CON is a conference that I'm not going to try to enforce no so perhaps your conference is not an option but what I have discovered with this public opinion has turned if it was ever on the other side anyway. Does nobody want to? Well I guess we're going to just walk out. You don't even have to say anything. I guess really what you're doing is to say the question and how can you quantify pornography being a valid part of an IT presentation? I don't see how it can be It's not an argument either because there are people who say pornography was an important part of my model How? So the point about the consequences the point that you just made about the freedom of speech is not necessarily freedom from consequences. A lot of of us are in positions where we can choose to onboard people into our organisations and involve in projects. This can be one way that you could say I will not remember you you put up that picture that I objected to I don't know that I really want to get involved in the concept projects in all kinds of societies that I have so it's a small community and we can use that. People do have power you're not used to zeroing power it's not usually necessary. This is an opportunity for you to set the standard it's your party you get to decide Rusty hit something to say next on presentation was on porn presentations about teenagers on commercial internet and he managed to do the entire talk without any greater images so I know exactly the talk you're talking about and he was one of the more fascinating talks about anyone had a policy he managed to achieve that I was just thinking about what Joe was saying about having to deal with highly anti-authoritarian people and one thing might be simply acknowledging to them I'm sorry I can't control what you put in your slides but if you put something like that in your slides you can guarantee that you'll never be invited back and we'll never want you at this show again at this conference again you can't stop them from doing it in real sense but you can say if this happens you won't be back you'll never be back the other thing I'd say is don't say never because people are stupid and young and they make mistakes there's always a capacity for forgiveness but if you explain in those terms what you're talking about there's always a capacity for forgiveness in those terms and there's excellent instructions for how to do a real apology on my geek feminism page the other thing outside of an organization we don't always have to lay down at all maybe say to people don't be jerks a lot of people will listen to that better than our rules are don't put anything after you want one about the racist days I find this ironic things too a lot of people don't know what the rules are like the pornography thing most of the time people who put pornography in their presentations they have no idea that it's not okay they might think it's a little racy a little interesting you have to communicate this specifically give it to the patient can it end on time? I just wanted to ask you a question how problem is this I can't remember the last time I actually saw something of that class in a group clearly I was unaware of Randall's posting about the booth but I don't know why that's what he's going to say there's a webpage that you can check out also Cat has some great stories you can check out the 11th it's the most recent one and you've been even more patient I guess I'm thinking of that fear if you're running a conference where they have a mini conference of having to deal with someone going yeah my next slide and everyone going and you're going frantically scramble to get it how apart from I think the best way that I've seen so far is to say for the conference we have this policy and it doesn't allow for these things are there any other ways to deal with the repure so other than changing the culture as a whole which we're doing each of us by having this discussion and setting the policies you have to say you can't do this and respond to it when it happens I mean part of the deal is when something like this happens you need to respond to this conference and say what you're thinking about you can't just let it slide that contraband thank you for asking yeah on this one OSDC did the harassment and I was part of the making sure that it happened and Lana did a fantastic talk on technical writing and had a bodybuilder sitting in a man in the talk and whilst it was a part joke it was also part we put this policy in place and that slide was inappropriate I felt I needed to stop Lana speaking now and stop the talk but afterwards I did sort of go it's kind of funny and I spoke to Pindra and he said yeah I felt uncomfortable not because this slide itself but by the fact that we actually said this isn't okay and now we have to do something about it and so I spoke to Lana and I think she has seen it here I have it brings me back to one of Donna's quotes we don't want dominion over man we want dominion over ourselves and so turning and the same thing that Mary said is that we can't use the same tactics in reverse so no pictures of making money I think you had a question Jason this I don't understand you bring it open to some great conferences so I was wondering how good speakers are in general and the text of papers in general language that's something feminism has done a great deal of awareness over the years and I know from the university context for people writing scholarly or academic papers that if you gender, I'm asking you examples or if you use the language of masculine pronouns for example that's going to be noticed so Jason's question was about how careful people are about using gender pronouns in technical talks and papers so I have a pretty simple rule is that if you use female pronouns for technical examples you will have shifted the ratio of male to female pronouns from 99% to 1 to 98% to 1 or 2 I recommend just using female pronouns just go for it, change the world in 20 years you can look back someone can say to you that you're being biasing your readership but give it a try otherwise using the plural that sort of thing has become standard English or you can alternate all that part but we're talking about females being the technical the person with technical expertise as opposed to technical examples where the coolest person is a female which we get a lot of just go for the reverse of the usual you know you'll be changing world the next we need four people you I'm already sorry remember we don't need to I I I I I think she's going to be she's going to be I think she's going to be she's going to be I think she's going to be she's going to be the lurker all right so this is taking place on an IRC channel so you're going to have to interpolate I'm going to turn on the IRC channel this is the Joins channel good that's Joins Earth send us pics ASL if this is where you're picking up women you need more health than life can give you make sure it's a good photo thank you so there's a reason is absolutely the case that if you have a women in open source feminist-related channel at all you get to know how pain lines work I have no desire to know these things and I know these things so one of the being friendly to this on your server and taking service things thank you appreciate it we have two more and the last one is one I don't have answer to so I'm going to go ahead and do this tell you where tell you this right now and then you can come up okay so hi I'm Ballard really? what did you write? this comes in various forms and this is very different from oh so what do you work on that's like a friendly let's make conversation sort of thing well what did you write? sort of thing but it happens constantly I don't have an answer for that this isn't a workshop for me to give an answer but if you can imagine standing there and watching this happen and one of the not helpful answers I don't think is here's a web page which has a list of all our patches that's not nobody should have to prove it's like showing the papers you should not have to have a discussion at all do you want to save it for when we do the thing? because if you have a great answer you can write anything okay different story one last one this is your last opportunity to hear a video wearing the eagle hat pia yes do you like to play? do you want to be eagle hat? oh but eagle hat, okay sorry would you like to be no would you like to be okay are you good? proper violence alright so there are two women present in this conversation it doesn't happen in front of women this is just one scenario okay man she sure is ugly and this also works man she is so pretty same thing if you're a woman it doesn't matter which way you have an appearance you're screwed yeah this isn't smacking sorry do you want to discuss the sexiness of episode 3 when you're over here both for us do you like volunteers? you're not a beauty contest when you're yourself I feel okay using that because the thing is you can use it either sort of way because like I said if you're a woman and you have an appearance it's over so you can make fun what you're trying to do is you're trying to draw attention to the fact that we're talking about people's appearance you know when you turn that around on them and show okay we're judging you based on your sexual attractiveness or physical beauty right so but I don't think any of these is a really awesome answer so do you have a really awesome answer and then you get to go I don't particularly have an answer but I do think leaving is actually you have succeeded all your control of that conversation and you have said okay it's okay for you to talk about that I'm going to I'm going to go away and bring just to mind complain about your kids so I do want to speak with that a little bit one of the things you get to do soon do a like no so part of the reason if you take a table full of 10 women in open source 9 of them will be burned out it's a constant constant battle and struggle each of you the key to doing this and not getting angry at the world is to not fight every single battle and in fact don't even fight battles if you're in a situation where you don't control things say that you don't like it don't have an argument, don't try to convince them don't feel like it's your duty to change the world when you have the right opportunity take it and this is just about showing you the opportunities and giving you practice to do that one of the things I suggest people do is that you practice the phrase that you're happy with to handle situations like this just like I don't think that's very polite you'll find that you're generally not going to get mocked for this if you're a man I think that's kind of rude end of story, right? and if you just practice that and you have it and it's your automatic response I mean that's part of the thing with the pornographic presentations we all know now hey it's possible somebody might do a pornographic presentation and when that happens what I should do is I should get up and walk out of the room and tell everyone we didn't know that the first time a few times but that's not just kind of to mind by the sort of conversations she's pretty ordinary wouldn't it say something like she's really good at what she does then immediately takes things away from what she looks like to do what she does I think a better client is knowing it oh yeah because then what she'll do I strongly encourage changing the subject that test is like how do I explain it to the criticism I'm sorry the test is like how do I explain it to the criticism because I'm here but she's good at what she does she's good at what she does she's a brilliant but you're still a very calm person so you could always say that's irrelevant I don't care she looks like it's relevant she looks like it's relevant anyway I'll get to your question my sentence isn't specific to this it's very related there was a friend who was sort of friendly to try to deal with the issues and he was sort of making a telling a story about a chick but not like a baby but just a female and a couple of others and I said to him look I just want to explain to you every time you say you meant me even if you're not talking to me you're going to go to the next door it's like hold on I didn't realise that because if you're talking about male you can talk about this man this dude but if you're a female you're a female you just have to go back and differentiate this is a great thing to Google for if you want to know more about this is other turning things into this is us and that's that which you can easily do with your language does that cause an issue in that sometimes you'll be trying to talk about a female pack up you do try to try to make it obvious that yes you're a female that's a good thing and more of it so is there a bit there about my idea of doing that you can do trying to emphasize that yes you're a female and that's entertaining say they're nice I had a nice it's important to acknowledge but you don't feel skilled at doing it as well but you know let it go anything that you're like I'm not sure just I mean I'll let you know so even today my Valerie is not exactly confused with doing actually Valerie said there's more Russian Valerie anyway go a name which is not that's probably the the likely but people are going to have the instant virtual visual of who this person is so it will help so I don't have I was going to just going back to the isn't she hot or whatever I don't have the magic blood sparkles but I am an honorary guy it's our purpose and I find the response that seems to work is I'm sorry I thought we were going to do this conference yes yeah just in general yeah it's a beauty pageant I thought I was a little bit I just can't put this together this totally happens with women present too so it's really possible this is sort of an observation you were saying about choosing the battles and I was saying that you don't just have to choose whether or not to raise an objection raise an objection that can be for a person or want to be like that makes me feel uncomfortable or that person is my friend and I like what you said about them you can just leave with your you can vote with your feet and just leave and that can be said as a personal objection but the other thing that is present if you choose to speak up is trying to speak from a point of authority and depending on the context that could get you a little quite a little bit if you say please don't speak about women like that then you're speaking from a voice of authority not just speaking from your own personal opinion what's advice on choosing whether or not to vote authority so the question is when do you say when are you coming from a position of personal preference I don't like that versus when you're coming from trying to make a statement in general that sounds authoritarian that is not okay I think the answer is when you have power you should use that that is not okay and when the only power you have is your participation you should use I don't like that that exactly gets used against women because we will be like some will be like I don't like that one woman is only the one I agree with so that's why it's so great to have magic man's part because you can say I don't like that and they won't be like some other man told me he liked it that usually is kind of pointing out that women of people too have independent thought I'm going to thank you all for being really good really good sports and excellent doctors and actresses please refer back to this webpage if at all possible and this allies training is here on the interwebs on the geek feminism wiki art wiki and there's tons of great stuff on there if you have any more interest please check that out thank you