 And now, for the last talk of the day, it gives me great pleasure to introduce Catherine Borges. Now Catherine is director of the International Society of Genetic Genealogy, she comes from Salida in Northern California and she is a powerhouse in terms of the genetic genealogy community working very closely with Family Tree DNA in the early days to set up projects on Family Tree DNA. So if you run a project on Family Tree DNA you can blame Catherine and thank her profusely for all the work that she's made you do. So without further ado, to talk to us about DNA Painter, please give a warm welcome to Catherine Borges. Everybody can hear me. I just want to give a quick disclaimer too. In Northern California, I live near Yosemite and we've had quite a few fires this year, you might have seen in the news. And I have asthma and my asthma has been horrendous ever since so I'll try not to cough too much but I just wanted to give you that disclaimer. And then I'm going to start with, this is the gentleman who invented DNA Painter. Is he in the room? Yes. Could you stand up for us please, Johnny? This is, yeah, no pressure here. I'm going to give a talk with the developer in the room. I probably, if we would have known you were going to be here, you should be the one giving the talk. You have to teach me how to talk. So anyway, so that's who we have to thank for this wonderful, wonderful tool. So and also I'd like to acknowledge to that DNA Painter won the Innovation Prize at Roots Tech in Salt Lake City this year. So when I found out about DNA Painter, one of the first things I did and I highly, highly recommend that you also do what I did is I did my research first on reading different types of blogs, articles, anything I could get my hands on to read about and do prep first on doing DNA Painter. So on the DNA Painter website there's a link to Blaine Bettinger's video. Watch the whole video. Do what, try to model what Blaine does. Read as many blog articles as you can. Read the DNA Help section, DNA Painter Help section if you get stuck. Definitely join the Facebook group and the WADA which I'll get to at the end of my talk and then just I think a week ago we started an Isog Wiki page on DNA Painter and one of the reasons is also to compile all the tools and resources on DNA Painter. So this is when you go to the DNA Painter homepage this is what you see when to click on for the Blaine video and again I highly recommend that you watch it. Roberta Estes also has a blog called DNA Explain and she's written about four or five articles on DNA Painter. Again too if you read and do your homework first before you start doing DNA Painter you can save yourself from making mistakes. Like one of the ones that Roberta mentions is that in the beginning she tried to paint her female ancestors segments with gender specific colors so you know pink for females blue for males and then she just got in the whole thing up so you don't want to do that and if you read these things ahead of time then you can save yourself from these learning those lessons the hard way. So here's our page two that we just created on the Isog Wiki it's our DNA Painter compilation so if you just go to the isog wiki or isog.org forward slash wiki and then go to DNA Painter you'll find this and Debbie Kent and I try to do our best on keeping it updated on links every time a new blog article comes out. One of the most recent blog articles was by Melody LaSalle so I try to read everything I can on DNA Painter. This is what the home page for the DNA Painter Facebook group looks like so definitely definitely want to join. One of the reasons that you want to join is because both in DNA Painter and in Watto there's always tips being posted and then so you can learn from what other people have had successes with what other people have had mistakes with like this particular tip talks about when you find a known match on the same location on a chromosome as one of your known matches then run a one-to-one comparison so that's one way that you will learn is reading all the tips on the Facebook and it's and Johnny is the admin on there and he answers a lot of the questions so it's that is the place to go I think for help. So one of the great things that I utilize in DNA Painter is the ability to set up multiple profiles so I just did this small I'm very privacy conscious so I try as much as possible you know to erase my cousins names and not use you know identify the information in my talks but so I just did a small portion of the screen but as you can see I have quite a few different profiles and they're very easy to set up and create and they're also very easy to delete so I only have one that I've deleted so far but I'll get to it and tell you why but how to deal with when I paint my ethnicity and so the way you start with creating a profile is you you click on the box that says create a new profile and this is the page you get and then see does this have a pointer it tells you who is this profile for enter a name for this profile so what I do usually there is if I'm looking for specific ancestors I might put in the ancestors names like as you saw on this page right here I named the profile John Bull Esquire I named this one Catherine's my maiden name is Bolt so that's why there's a lot of bolts in here ethnicity this one is all Bolt DNA segments I'm painting this one is McCallum this is my mother's maiden name and this is one of my ancestors so depending on what goal that I'm trying to do is the way that I named the profile see so then when you when you go and put in a cousin's match when you're painting a cousin's match this particular cousin she's my second cousin once removed so I just used her first name her name is also Catherine and she's second second cousin once removed then I list the ancestors that we have in column which is Lucius Samuel Bolton any right folder this is my great-grandparents it's her great-great-grandparents it's on our paternal side and the color I used is purple and then I put in notes down here and again the system of organization I use is from Blaine primarily is where I copied what Blaine was doing so this is what my particular ancestor painting looks like right now for all the different lines that I painted in so far so this is you know a lot of my ancestors on both sides of my family and then down here is a little key that shows those but I tend to use currently I use DNA painter right now for more targeted goals so I want to show you some of those this is and please too Johnny feel free to correct me if I'm wrong if I say anything wrong but right now you can only paint in chromosome segments from family tree DNA 23 and me and Jed match in my heritage so this is I've gone into family tree DNA and because as Morris said that I've been doing why DNA testing for so long I have many cousins that have tested the family tree DNA and a preponderance of bolts because one of the projects I run is bolts so I have a lot of bolt matches in there so when you you go to the chromosome browser and as you can see in the background this is the family tree in these chromosome browsers this is actually the old now old style chromosome browser because they just changed it which is not what you want right before you're going to give a speech let me tell you I'm in my hotel today because it was Andy that let me know that they have changed it and I'm putting in new slides fixing everything since they just changed it and I found some bugs so anyways you caught you highlight the chromosome the segment information here is so easy all you have to do is highlight and click copy excuse me and then and paste and so this is in family tree DNA this is what the new chromosome browser tab looks like and this is actually again too as I was mentioning I do a lot of targeted goals in what I'm trying to find out with my ancestors so this particular example that I'm showing you is back to that same cousin Catherine the second cousin once removed and incidentally she was adopted so she was able to find her her real birth parents were through using family tree DNA and then later she found her father through ancestry but what I wanted to show you here too is so she's my second cousin once removed this mg Wallace is my first cousin once removed and I like to look at the different segments of where patterns of inheritance that we have like say for instance on chromosome 11 I have a longer segment of chromosome 11 in common with mg than I do with cat so that's one of the things that I use DNA painter for and then because I find it interesting how these different segments get inherited so for instance now this is a comparison with mg and cat but now we have s and s is mg's brother so it's when I added him so I go again on chromosome 11 here's here's cat and then here's s and they have this segment in common and then wait that's 13 sorry I'm looking the wrong 11 right here so cat I have this segment in common with mg and with cat but I don't have been common with s so that's another area that I look at to try to see how much DNA I have in common because you know siblings inherit DNA differently on this chromosome 5 I have less in common with s than I do with mg so it's you know they're brothers and then even this one's a little slightly shorter on s it's just random the way it happens so I'm going to give you an example of how I was a very early adopter of autosomal DNA and and you just trained these segments to find long-lost relatives cousins ancestors so this is a bible record that surfaced in 2003 a 90-something-year-old lady in Seneca South Carolina had got up into her attic and found this bible record and we actually had the DNA match on what a DNA right before the bible record was found but what was interesting for us with this bible record is there's people listed on this bible record that we did not know who they were we've never heard of them before didn't know who they were and one of them is this Frankie Bolt so here's the common ancestor Robert Bolt senior born 1710 my ancestor is Robert Bolt jr. born 1762 and here's this Frankie born 1757 so when this record was found we're like who is Frankie what happened to Frankie is Frankie a male or a female we didn't know so uh but we got the uh this was in 2003 by 2009 when autosomal testing came in was introduced by 23 and me we got it our answer so i uh found out in 2009 a deering descended contacted me and said that Frankie was a woman and that Frankie had married his ancestor William Deering and they these deerings that know all about us but in 200 years they didn't ever happen to mention and let any bolts know that they knew about us they're supposedly also a deering bible record i still haven't seen it yet so hopefully maybe someday we'll get to see this deering bible record that matches Frankie so the question that i had was does do the deer does this Frankie bolt via the deering's will their DNA match ours now here's what i did because this is all we had back then i gotta give you this big caveat because it's almost like committing a sin when you have DNA segments this low this is below seven centimorgans and in the genetic gene call it genealogy community there's a lot of debate about the with the seven centimorgans there's some people out there that think less than seven centimorgans are valid and it's i call it the small segment war is what i call it so i'm not taking sides in the small segment war but i also don't throw the baby out of the bathwater so what we have here is a gentleman named jen mcmillan had established a spreadsheet back in 2009 and you could submit small segments to jen mcmillan so what i did that with roger deering's dna um all of these people would be six cousins to each other so and from different lines of robert bolt senior so she's from the oldest son john he is from abraham and this is from my brother so in theory these people shouldn't have any matches at all if they weren't related but the segments are too small to definitively answer that question so i need something more and thanks to johnny pearl i got it so um so here's what i did and let me tell you how i did this and i just think it's amazing and this is going to be a tool that i could use also to find more bolt descendants but they're it's tricky and there's a key to it so what i did using dna painter was here we have the common ancestors robert bolt senior born 7010 elizabeth is born 1722 we don't know or made a name yet we may get there eventually but what i did was i went through and i started mapping his dna his all the segments that were in common from each of his children so all of his children that survived i was able to find segments that were overset seven centimorgans because in dna painter you can't map less than that it has to be seven centimorgans now let me tell you the key to doing this and how i did it okay one i have tested a lot of bolts not only on the viparzone but also on family finder tests two i try to test the oldest generation having the oldest generation really really helps because most of the time they are one generation closer to the ancestor than you know say i am so some of these these people that are up here they're deceased now one of them was my cousin who was born in 1920 but one thing that was very helpful for my family is that we have long generation links long generation links are helpful on a dna perspective like this but they're bad to get to know your grandparents because like my grandfather died when i was four years old my grandfather was born in 1894 so excuse me asa anyways back to this so i was able to find children from each one of robert bolt seniors all the children that we know that survived now he had a son named james but we don't know of any knowns descendants of james so maybe james didn't have any uh maybe he didn't survive maybe his his descendants didn't survive but we've not found anyone from the james line yet but we were able to find from the oldest son john born 1750 mary 1744 sarah i think she's 1752 and frankie of course so here's how i did it because i don't have my cousin's names on here now one of the things that i used in the tool was i went into family tree dna and i went into matches and i would look specifically and search the database for bolt matches and then if i didn't find you know if it didn't narrow it down enough here's what i did i searched by say the wife's or the whoever the wife married so with the marry match i searched for garard or gerard it's um g a r r a d it's almost close to gerard's name but i searched for uh gerard because she married a gerard and that's how i i found that one this is a person i didn't know i just found them by searching the database i did the same thing too with um see which one was it the sarah descendant no the sarah descended i knew um it might have been the the frankie descendant now i could not find a match between roger and say my generation but i could with the older generation so that was the other key and it's random again too and having these profiles in the bolt dna project was very helpful because then that helped me with my searching so eventually i think that i will keep being able to match these and something else i want to point out too it's really interesting on the patterns when you're looking at this of inheritance from the chromosomes so like for instance married born 1744 and abraham born 1764 they both have this exact same segment on chromosome one that they inherited so these are six cousins to each other but they're inheriting the same segment so that's probably where the gene for stubbornness is i'm guessing because we're very stubborn and i'm sorry but i'm just kidding but seriously though it's really interesting to see an overlap like this on chromosome one between six cousins that have the exact same segment that's being passed down i mean i've even seen segments excuse me from a great great grandparent where a whole chromosome was inherited by a great great grandchild so and the person that this happened to i told them about dna painter i said you need to use dna painters will make your life a lot easier so one of the things that you can also do in dna painters you can paint in your ancestry and you can only do that from 23 and me correct and i so i did mine from 23 and me however when i first painted it i painted it into that very first slide you saw that had all my ancestors and i went because it did this it went all one color and it colored the whole thing and look how boring i am so i'm just i'm just european it's not you know defined yet by the different groups so it just i'm just all pink all european so i decided that what i'm going to do is leave that alone for now until perhaps you know it changes or you know every so often i can go in and repaint from 23 and me when they do uh database updates and see if it changes at all because right now that's not going to help me that much but where it can help people is if you have something that's not like this 100 european so my son has native american dna and he really does and it's quite a big chunk so you know not this whole thing that you mentioned earlier like was with warren it shows up in all the databases so he's he's made he's got native american dna so where that could help me with dna painter is if i find a cousin that might be related to him on that line then i could paint in his ethnicity match i just haven't gotten around to it yet because i'm a little selfish working on my lines so this is my irish ancestry so i thought i'd put it up here if anybody knows any pals or englishes from limberick bounty lenders i'd be happy to pay for a test for them i would do family finder and why mcallum they're from tyrone i'd be happy to do a y dna lynch from cabin family finder and kennedy i would be happy to do a y dna and a family finder too from kenny to barry so um these are the lines that i'm researching of my irish ancestry this is my grandmother right there were cutie cherub that when after they left ireland they settled in chicago that's where it was taken and this is she married a mcallum and this is a mcallum family crest so this is my uh on my maternal my direct female line uh mitochondrial line this is my mitochondrial license my grandmother this is her mother kora this is her mother johanna and this is the registry for the famineship that left cork on june 2nd 1848 that carried her mother julia english now when i did a mitochondrial test i was not expecting i can tell you it was quite a surprise i was not expecting that our dna would be half the group n 1 b 1 b which at the time my first test it was only n and then it became n 1 b but either way here's the thing n is not indigenous to ireland the minute i saw that i knew that i was looking at non irish dna it wasn't an h it wasn't an i of j all these other letters it was an n so so i don't know how it ended up in ireland all i can do is have a hypothesis because you know the records are gone but so here's my hypothesis is that my long ago female line ancestor went into england during the roman occupation then went into ireland during cromwell the valley landers means place of the londoners their surname is english english is not an irish surname it's found here a lot like there's a famous um sailing guy down in court that's certainly in english but it's not an irish surname so um the other thing that gave me the clue about the romans is all of my matches are in italy so again that's why i'm thinking that they came with the romans but it's just a hypothesis i don't have anything else now that begs the question am i less irish because i'm an n i'm a clearly not indigenous to ireland but i think the the answer is it's it's up to you you just take the information you have whether it's dna whether it's what your family has told you and you decide whether you want to incorporate that into your identity or not as far as i'm concerned my ancestor self identified as irish i'm par irish they settled in irish uh catholic section of chicago my mother always said you're irish that's why you like potatoes so to me i'm irish even if i have this clearly not an indigenous you know irish dna but that doesn't mean that all of my dna is not irish like definitely the kennedy was that was from tipper where he was at emits rebellion so uh with the rebellious dna i could clearly say i have that so uh dna painter so here's what i'm doing now with dna painter i am looking for that irish dna in me because i don't have it from my mitochondrial clearly so i set up a new profound or irish dna i put the person as female which it could possibly come from both sides just depends what side i'm focusing on but i just put female for the sake of you know because it's my maternal line this is what it looks like now in f tna's uh when you paste the segment so you just highlight this and go down to copy and paste under detailed segment data thankfully johnny's already upgrade updated the dna painter program so that it works because when they first changed it it didn't work and i know that because it was on facebook in the group so then i copy that and then i paste it into here so the data gets pasted into this box and then i decide how i'm going to label it so i chose pal because we're going to be looking at ones from my pal line which is also from limerick i hyphenate the ancestor's name is pal english maternal and interestingly enough the default color was green how convenient for my irish side yes it was like it knew so so this is what you get when i paint in my pal mat so i have one cousin that's a pal she actually lives in america as cindy wood pronounces it as pole but um or well we say pal but um they settled uh after the the family julie english married jaws pal now the late the cousin that i match is descended from a pal who also married to english so if the two english girls were sisters which we think they are but we don't have any proof then uh we're going to have more dna in common than we would if we only shared the pal ancestor so these are the two areas of on our dna where we have this uh pals possibly slash english dna in common so then next what i did this is my family trigene matches list this is my cousin that's from the pal and then um i went to compare another uh person looking for the pal surname and um also with my aunt so and mcallum is my aunt who's done a family finder test because i figured two should have more dna in common so that's why i ran the comparison so and then this is uh on the what it looks like now in the new chromosome browser so i've got again my pal cousin here my aunt here checked her in the box then you click compare and this is what i got so this particular one is um i didn't i left it at five senate morgan's i did try on the other slides to go to seven senate morgan's because you know that goes but anyways i painted the this particular one um my mcallum line read because it was scottish scottish and quotes um from irish family immigrant that went to scotland that's why i say it like that and then uh these ones again to our alice so i was looking for overlap and the only overlap i found was just this little tiny smidgen right here it is so small that i had a dickens of a time trying to get it into dna pater we would like the system kept rejecting it at first so um but i was finally able to do it using i think on my aunts account so this is um the marriage registry from my thomas mcallum who married rosie lynch and they were married in shots in lannister scotland in 1852 um the the census says that he was from uh tyrone and she was from cabin so i'm looking for lynches now i'm on the road for lynches so i do a search and family tree dna of matches and i find this is completely unknown to me just so you know i don't know this person or how are related but i find that they have a lynch ancestor andy lynch and the only ancestral names we have in common is lynch we do not have mcallum in common with this particular person so up here uh this first one the light blue is the uh my mother's or my aunt and then the first of their cousin is the uh i guess that's teal it looks so close to blue it's kind of hard to see and the second the fourth is the um the red so this is the lynch match and mind you again this doesn't show um up on mine it shows on my aunts because um this my aunt is one generation closer to the ancestor so she's more likely to have matches now that's not to say i don't ever get those random matches come through i do it's just easier when you use the older generation so this one for me this is interesting because up here on chromosome one there's no overlap but down here on chromosome nine there is overlap so this is this could be our common lynch ancestor right here but the annie lynch is not back any farther than my rosy lynch so we're still kind of stuck on lynch but again this is how you sort it out so excuse me so my mother's made a name back to is mcallum and i started the mcallum wine dna project in 2006 it's kind of like the field of dreams movie if you build it they will come i was completely brick walled on my mcallum line to be able to test a male mcallum in america because they had all dotted out they had all died out on the north american continent so i started the mcallum project and then we started having my callum's joining and then here at uh group four and five what's interesting is with a in scotland it's called a clan name in ireland they call them seps as i have been corrected by someone that's here at the conference so um they would take a name as a protector so of course they're not all going to be related but the it's interesting to see the variants of the surnames like this one's mcallum this one's malcom this is mcallum with the u and they all match each other of course they've got the the highlighted uh boxes are where they have mutations from each other but the they all do share a common ancestor this group shares a common ancestor so i started that project and what was great was when i tested the i finally found a mcallum cousin to test he's a second cousin that's from room to me that lives in scotland and i did a white chromosome test on him and a family finder and that's who you saw when i was doing the mcallum matching but um i was able to also see immediately which group he fell into because the project already existed so what was interesting is arid line was the only irish line in the whole project everybody else was scottish so what that tells me is that he's scottish too but how did he get to ireland was it ulster plantation that's again probably the hypothesis and then he returned to scotland during the famine so this is an instance too where i'm using why dna it benefits me but also then i turn to the autosomal because clearly i don't have the mcallum surname i can't see mcallum dna in any of my relatives in north america in a white chromosome i have to have autosomal dna and the thing with dna painter is that you can bring in the dna from all the other companies you're not stuck or tied to just using one company so uh family tree dna offers free autosomal transfers and then if you want to unlock the chromosome browser it's only 19 dollars and um i i you know i kind of get this phantom slide then i did have a slide showing dna my heritage because my heritage is having free uploads until the first of december and then after that they're going to charge so if you want to get into their database do it before the first of december but that slide disappeared so what i wanted to show you too is that a new dna painter tools come out what are the odds but guess what i'm not going to talk about it because andrew melard is so so i have here uh oh i did put it in there i just found the wrong page so join the what the wato facebook page also because there's always tips being posted nearly almost every day here's the my heritage upload page i just reversed in my slides and this is about uh andrew's lecture coming up on sunday and he's going to go over what are the odds wato as we call it so and there's all kinds of new tools coming out with dna painter you know i had gone when autosomal testing first came out i went to the dna companies and i asked them to implement tools that will give us the ability to phase and i asked 23 and me i asked family tree dna um and they said the problem with that request is that it's very expensive what you're asking it takes a lot of computer database processes very expensive to do and i started out doing phasing with tim janson's method using a excel spreadsheet which is very very labor intensive i don't have enough days in my life to keep doing it like that so i was so excited when this tool came out with dna painter because it is so so easy to use and i highly recommend you know do your homework first download dna painter it's free to use if you want to use the he's coming out with more advanced tools than i did the subscriptions 45 i signed up right away so um for that because it is i mean it's just the next best thing since life spread so anyways i think i'm almost through this is the lecture uh schedule up here i think morris glason jerry cork grant all the isaac volunteers and speakers and of course speak thank you again to johnny pearl for dna painter and if you'd like to get a transfer flyer or to test your family tree dna there's standards at b20 b25 downstairs so thank you very much i think i have to answer any questions but some you might need to direct to johnny i don't know how he knows as much as he does it's great to have such a collection of intellectual people in the room that can answer those questions so has anybody in the room used dna painter that's going to quite a few people so there's about 20 people that have actually used dna painter um any questions has anybody found any major uh had success stories with dna painter me okay donna you've had you've had a success a mystery match on my mum's side a close match and we think we've narrowed it down to um where it might be but we've used dna painter to try and sort that out because i didn't know if it was on her paternal or paternal side but because i could tell who they were matching in with and i've already worked out which side they were by putting it all in dna painter i could rule out that it wasn't um her paternal side because they didn't match the paternal side but having all your dna painter has made the research a lot easier because i can clearly see where this mystery man sits and all the other people that match him from all the companies like like i said you can bring in all your matches from the other companies and you've got them all in one place and you can visually see what you're going to research so yeah great thanks johnny i'd be great to be able to transfer ancestry data across but there's no way that you can do that apart from getting them to upload to jetmatch and then take the jetmatch data or family tree dna or my heritage sure sure yeah you have to do a workaround you don't have a choice yeah and there are workarounds available which is a good news yes here did you have a question i believe the end would be would be i believe that's ashkenazi jewish i think well it's so i also i run the apple group end project at family tree dna to research in because it's so rare and so it has gone from it started out being jewish to not jewish now i think it's maybe jewish that's right so so one of my friends he's done the definitive this so all of the jewish people have ever lived in ireland it's an amazing book but anyway it's available and your thing i do have a kennedy grandmother from different so uh lots of kennedys there do you do you have a male world so i'm in test i will be for it great any other questions for for kathryn fine well it just remains for me to say thank you very very much to you thank you very much to the audience for attending all day today uh we all started 11 30 tomorrow we have another day of cracking dna lectures for you uh so until then can i just ask you to give a warm round of applause for kathryn gorgeous can you do you want to say something dick let me just come down to you i just wanted to know that my kennedy contemporary who was uh separate from me i want to force such a kind of glistening to me uh his great great great great great great grandmother was a kennedy contemporary really so we might have something for you kathryn if you actually match up on his water something at all uh you might be able to fight i think yeah how do you what was his name um i you'd be an i your email will be able to get me yeah i'll send you okay sounds good she's got a kennedy temporary ancestor yes and um dick was just saying that there's a kennedy that we know that we could put you in touch with oh my god