 Hello everyone and welcome to for the minions episode 18 of for the minions the weekly show where we talk about some of the Post Paragon mobs currently in production today We're going to be talking about the news and updates as always Then we'll go over the poll results then we have tech time with Ruba and then our top of our discussion is heroes that we think need reworks from Paragon and then we're going to get into some of jackals ideas, which I haven't introduced him yet but It's gonna be myth ideas for ethereal and then after that, but you know, I'm gonna Plug a youtuber that has very few subscribers But I think he did a great video on course map But I am your host the one and only man goose and joining me as always is my lovely co-host Mandy Malmendi How you doing? I'm doing great and today we're joined by jackal. How are you? Yeah, I'm pretty good. How are you guys? Thanks for joining us Why don't you tell us a little bit about how you got started with Paragon your favorite hero all that good stuff? All right, let's start all the way back in early legacy days beta Free beta, I guess would be so I entered Why bottom so I Started out playing a little bit of Murdoch here in there, right so And throughout my time, I think I actually stopped playing for a few months there in legacy because there is a downtime And then I think around monolith I picked up the game again and never stopped since until the death of Paragon and Then from there, I just mean getting the entire time. So I don't know what any other character is ask me about thing now About it Brux, I know he has a pole and he stunts me out of my own. That's it That's all you got to know and give you and who can stun me out of my old exactly just watch out for the snakes All right, and I just wanted to mention it this time the background footage used to be stuff from casting call now It's on the the cinematic edits that shark does on his channel I'll link his channel down in the description below because they're really cool I'm sure you can see them up above our heads right now But let's move on to the news and updates starting with made a buff and core They released some new merch, which is a ball cap, which is kind of cool. I'm all about ball caps, but uh That's neat and then I wanted to dive into their frequently asked Questions because they have quite a few on their website made about the comm and the first one is how many spots? Will there be available for the alpha? This is a question that gets asked a lot They would they intend to release The alpha with 10k spots, however to make sure we don't overload the servers with 10k people at once We will release the keys in waves. This is to make sure we can monitor the servers properly So our customer experience division is handling all the reported bugs So pay he the 10k spot limit might get revised if the need arises I really wanted to bring that up because people got Really pissed off when they didn't get a key for predecessor on the first date was launched So when you go into core just know that the alpha keys will roll out in waves so If you don't get a key the first day don't get too upset about it because you know The keys will come out as the game progresses same thing with predecessor those keys are still going to be coming out as that game progresses. So just you know Be going there full expectations, you know, I'm trying to warn you right now if you just don't get so pissed off Just be a little pain It was I mean, I didn't get too annoyed at it. I just enjoyed watching everybody play to be honest but I mean who knows we'll see and Another question is how can I get an entry into the closed alpha? Pretty much? How can you sign up for the? for the keys For the first clues you can follow to get yourself access to close alpha go to our twitch page And it is a twitch dot TV slash or the game Once there follow the social media channels down below in order to keep track of what's happening with social community The public figures presented here are being provided with alpha keys that they will be giving away on their streams and through promotional events on their channels You may also follow our social media links available on our website, especially discord So pretty much exactly what I've been telling people main thing is get on their discord follow their discord look for those at all mentions And that's the best way to stay up-to-date on how they're going to be doing that alpha keys also, I'll throw the picture up there Mandy and I are both included on the People that are going to get alpha keys to give away I'm not going to give them away during the show I'm probably gonna have a running giveaway because a lot of people don't have time to always watch a certain stream or Catch the show when it's live or anything like that And I don't want those people to miss out on an opportunity to get a key So I'll probably run it through my discord. So if you're not on my discord, I'll link that down below It's not the most active discord ever So don't be expecting like this great mongoose community or anything. There is a nice little community in there But it's I'm not trying to run a discord promotion. I'm just trying to make it easier on me to run the To run the the giveaway for the keys Mandy what what about you? I Haven't worked out any details yet, but I'm thinking I'll probably just make a video announcing This is the giveaway comment and just it'll be completely random I feel like that's the most fair way. You don't have to subscribe. You don't have to like you don't have to do any of that Kind of stuff. Just give everybody a fair shot Yeah, just wait for the comments. It says give me key. Yep You gonna have a lot of them Another thing I wanted to cover will items be locked like Paragon No, all items are available to all players equally no item advantage based on account progression I think this is absolutely fantastic towards the end of Paragon's life cycle It became a little bit pay-to-win if you didn't have certain cards on certain heroes Then you couldn't play that hero very well So you kind of had you had to buy a bunch of fucking loot boxes and hope you got a key or enough materials to disenchant to create The the the specific card that you wanted for a certain hero and I'm really happy to see that Core is not going to go that route that they're just gonna make all items available to everyone That's what most mobas do anyway. What are you guys's thoughts on that? You want to go ahead Jackal? Yeah, sure. Um, so I was a big fan of do-man's you do in several knows my jam I played that like once or twice and just Pretty much when I find everybody much often because that's our You know 60 HP down to one HP and just one shots with the Q. It's pretty easy But I mean, yeah, I mean it should be like every other mobile Having locked items was a really bad idea. I mean, there was that one point monolith had the six item I guess it would be the items, but there's no cards But I think that was pretty close to being a unlocked Paragon But they still just kind of screwed it up by keeping everybody Affinity locked Right. Yeah Yeah, I definitely kind of Echo those sentence that it just wasn't a good idea. I mean, I guess they were trying to Be a little unique or have something a little different But that was one way that it it wasn't necessarily a positive Way to differentiate themselves from other mobas. So I like it. I'm glad that that's the way that That core is gonna go. Yeah Yeah, one other thing I think a predecessor, I know they're doing the three I guess the Trinity I Don't know what they call about the elements Three elements. I guess they're still kind of keeping around some of the Paragon aspects In that fact that they're having three elements But of course they're having open items So I think that's still a way of keeping like Paragon alive in a sense with their unique And I think core might have Affinities as well. Just like you said with premises or your items aren't locked to an affinity and Next question if I don't answer answer this one people will riot on what platforms will made a buffer release core It is only gonna be on mobile. I'm just kidding. No closed alpha Has to be released Exclusively to PC the function of alpha is to debug stabilize and introduce the quality of experience elements necessary to pass the quality standards That approved core for a console release meeting those standards is the mark that ends alpha and starts closed beta With console access for the game starting first on ps4 The extended markets for Xbox and switch are open to exploration for us And we do have our developer approval for those as well. The primary platforms are PC and ps4 We will be keeping an eye on the others as options for expanding player accessibility and reducing Q times as needed So there you go. There you go. And it seems like Once they start their closed beta is when they kind of plan to also release on ps4 So no estimated time frame that just kind of depends on how the alpha goes and they will be debugging the alpha on PC So there's your answer for now. Hopefully if something new comes out, I will let you know Maybe don't be hoping for the Xbox and switch for a while then guys, right? Maybe you played on ps4, right? I never played on ps4 a little bit. Yeah towards the end. I Started dabbling on ps4, but I never felt comfortable. I would end up going right back to PC Sometimes mid game. I would actually Up and I'm like I can't do this. I Didn't know you could do that Did you have to put the game or you could rejoin the game as I just I kept it going on The ps4 got it up on my PC and it would join me in and then I would just Not know you do that Yep, yeah, I just logged into my account and it started me up right in the game I didn't have to you know abandon or anything like that. I didn't get any type of Negative, I mean it took a little while but I was still trying to you know I would try to like back and then get it done really quick while I was at base Did you play on ps4 or PC jackal PC of course, yeah, okay The last bit of news we have for core is the map test that you saw us run on the last episode of for the minions It's going to be available to all influencers on April 14th So expect to see a whole lot of streamers and youtubers putting up some some more footage of the of the map and it'll be really good to get a lot more Perspectives on on on the on the map like up when I ran the map last week It was you know, I didn't run it too too much to begin with and I just kind of want to display it I went back and I streamed it with a when do the maze great twitch streamer by the way I'll link his twitch stream down in the description too and he had He brought up a lot of really good points and a lot of stuff that I had missed and it's always good Just get various perspectives on the map. So I think that'll be a lot of fun for everybody Maybe you think you you think you'll stream it or do any video any more videos on the core map Yeah, I'm definitely planning to I'll probably try to stream I like I like doing I like the way that's been working out because I've watched like British streams And I watched when you and when do stream and that was really cool because you can kind of interact right away with the With the audience. So I might try to do that. But yeah, definitely like you were saying I think it's really going to Open up a lot of eyes on some, you know Maybe possible issues or whatever because I've watched British stream and your stream with when do like I said and I was like, oh, yeah Those are some some excellent points that they brought up. So that'll be interesting to get everybody's opinions Do you watch a couple streams jackal? Yeah, I watched yours or actually no, I didn't watch yours. I watched your YouTube video and then I watched The the main street Okay, right on yeah So Moving on to a made a maybe what we got for a made of studios this week Well, we got quite a bit from them they have pretty much Bulldoze their their plan And are kind of not not starting over but redoing a lot of stuff However, they do want everybody to know that progress is gonna go much quicker You don't it's not expected to take too long It's it's a lot faster to redo things and it is to begin from ground zero So and they've already made some really good progress. So what they're working on is some of the main issues and bugs that were reported was that input lag so they've already got a working model and There's zero input lag Much better performance. They've told us than the previous version But they still they still have some work to do. So they're gonna start working on Abilities effect ability effects minions towers combat hard UI there They're kind of just given it a complete overhaul. So I personally think that's great I'm glad to hear that they worked on that input lag because that was kind of frustrating and Made it kind of hard to enjoy the game As far as just going in and testing it is it was fine, you know, but to actually get in there and like have fun I found that personally kind of hindering my fun in the game, but What do you guys think of some of these? Reworks they're gonna be doing Go ahead jackal I Think that they're redoing the effects the minions towers in combat Is is a really good idea I Don't really have too much info on the matter. So I don't really know how to input much on that Yeah, that's why but I think it's definitely a good step in the right direction Then I think I think the input line was probably the people that were playing the game That was probably their biggest complaint Hopefully they also fixed the footsteps because that was the biggest complaint that I saw in the comments of my video That I did about it everybody Hated the footsteps Really not at all God they were so loud I mean they were they were noticeably louder But it wasn't anything that I was like this is hindering my experience like I just I was like whatever I guess it's a small thing. It is a small thing, but it was very distracting. I thought oh, that's funny But yeah, I mean sounds like smokey's got everything back on track and hopefully we'll see something out of predecessor again soon And when they do roll it out, I'm sure they'll roll out some more keys So if you did sign up for a predecessor key, there's still hope there's still hope that you'll get one Yeah, I can't wait to get my grubby little hands back on it Then moving on for ethereal this week I just wanted to remind everybody ethereal is its own intellectual property. It is not Paragon at all They started production well before Paragon even announced that it was closing like Core and predecessor and Phoenix Rising wouldn't exist if if Paragon never closed ethereal would they would still be trucking and It's an absolutely amazing new game that it does include It is a MOBA that operates with the z-axis just like Paragon That's why we include it on the show because it has attracted the attention of a lot of Paragon fans Especially fans that are looking for something new not necessarily their old heroes coming back, but they hit jackal I know loves him some ethereal So, um, yeah, I'm excited I just wanted to let people make sure make sure people aren't looking at ethereal as another Paragon remake because it is not They didn't really have much to announce this week though They had us me some new music from UG white sand So they're gonna have their own music in the game that their own music their own art their own art direction Everything's new for ethereal and then I also wanted to announce I couldn't announce it last week because they hadn't quite announced it yet But the contest winners were UG ace. I say UG because they are now members of undying games So UG ace and UG mystique. So yay Let's platform and jackal actually came very close to being one of those Yeah Good Yeah, I see you in the I see you're you're you're you seem to be a very excited for ethereal I'm glad to see that I'm like I like to see some hype for ethereal because that's the one that I'm really excited for I mean, I miss Paragon and I'm gonna play the shit out of predecessor and core but I'm really really looking forward to ethereal and Can't wait to see what those guys do And moving on to Phoenix Rising we actually have a little bit about the updates for fever rising not not too much Christian was telling me that they're they're going back to their art team for concept work So that means that they are moving forward. They are there is a little bit of progress That's not huge or anything, but it's just nice to hear something out of Phoenix Rising I don't always include them in the show because they are laying very low until they have something solid that they Could show the community. I just wanted to make sure let everybody know that they are not dead They're still going gets another It was very much inspired Phoenix Rising is very much inspired by Paragon But they're using their own heroes their own map their own mechanics So that's very cool to see as well. I'm looking forward to that one I'm not sure when their alpha is going to be or anything like that But hopefully pretty soon we'll see a little more progress from visionary games in Phoenix Rising Yeah, it's definitely another one. I'm excited for to see come out. Oh, yeah, not not just that It's a z-axis. It's that they're recreating something that died Having them restart from nothing is is a huge feat that they're to So it's just it's good. It's good to see. Yeah, they put a lot of work into that And I'm not giving up as a huge deal after losing a lot of their teams That's an excellent point. And I think it's really important to remind people That both ethereal and but particularly Phoenix Rising, you know, they're starting from scratch They didn't have assets or anything like that. They are building everything from scratch plus they took that hit So, you know, just because we're not hearing week after week these huge updates Doesn't mean that they're not still creating something really really cool. So I'm really I'm Definitely cheering for them. I can't wait to to hear a little bit more from them for sure If you're interested in learning about any of these games any more about these games I have all of theirs not all of there But some of their social media is linked in the video description below So there's any of these games you want to learn a little bit more out go check them out for yourself Do your own a little bit of research and find out which one you want to kind of root for and look forward to Now before we move into poll results, we did open our patreon last week We have our first patron it is up suicidal. So thanks a lot man coming in at that siege minion tier Really appreciate it. I'm gonna go tiers with the with the subscriptions like minion siege minion super minion and then Or prime, I guess if anybody goes that high prime So, uh, yeah, that's a great news for us That is so cool. Thank you so much. It'll help us fund some of the uh, some of the stuff that we need for the show Now, uh Maybe let's give them a heart. Let's give them a little heart. Let's put our Um, if you guys can imagine So for the poll results last week out of 937 votes We had core at 62 predecessor at 21 percent ethereal at 14 phoenix rising at three This week a little different. Um out of 1.2 k votes We have core at 78 percent predecessor at 10 percent ethereal at 10 phoenix rising at 2 So huge difference. I guess everybody liked the core map So that was a nice map. It was it was a beautiful map. So I think that got people really hyped up for core um I should also be keeping track of how many votes are on here because that's kind of funny too it just keeps going up and up and uh So I'll go ahead and switch over to the bar graph so you can see How the uh, how everything has been tallying up since I started this poll and that's kind of the end result that I'm going for But that's enough for the poll results this week on tech time with rubo We're going to be talking about distance matching and it's kind of important and applies to core I went to a little bit of it. I kind of showed it off with calari when I was on the map And uh, because I kind of knew that we were going to be doing distance matching this week So let's go ahead and get into tech time with rubon All right, everybody. It is once again time for tech time with rubon this time. We're going to be going over uh distance matching which is something I don't quite have a good comprehension of myself Uh, I did look into it a bit But uh, this is why we have rubo because he knows what he is doing. So rubo, why don't you tell us about distance matching? I'll do. Thank you very much mongoose. So um, you may you may realize that I'm not showing you the Unreal editor this week to the start. We instead have a 100 meter race. Um, you say in bolt lens spoiler it was Seven years ago So we're going to start off this video. Um, and we're going to see a couple of things So what I want you to do is we're going to look at start of the race the middle of the race and the end of the race It's only 100 meters. So, um It should take 10 seconds So they're they're these um runners are stationary Now So this is the point at the end of the race where all these runners they're running at, um, they're pretty much running, um 100 meters in 10 seconds So they're effectively running, you know, like their their average speed is about 10 meters per second So all these guys are running at full speed Okay, so that's the first concept. So these guys are running at full speed Now if I play the video again What we're going to see is that all these guys who are running They don't come to an immediate stop So apart from you saying who runs off you can see all these runners here need about 50 or 60 meters to come to a complete stop Okay, so that's this known as their deceleration rate or their deceleration distance These guys who are running at full speed, like if you're running at full speed with big strides, you need time to stop Likewise, if you're walking down the street and you have to stop suddenly You can almost stop on a diamond come to an immediate stop That's the concept that um, we're going to have a quick look at Um with some of these paragone animations. So got that in your head. This is us running at full speeding coming to a stop Now, um, I've got here, um, I'll go in and have a little look We have shinbi and the reason I've picked shinbi is because her animations are very Long like I don't know what they did or how they how they built them But we have shinbi's animation here and what I'm going to do is I'm going to go back to the start and we're going to play this Um, this particular animation is gen genbi shinbi's jog forward stop animation So this is used when shinbi is running forward. So um away from the screen like towards someone And she decides to come to a stop. So I'm just going to play it and to let you have a look And we'll let it look a couple of times. So there's a lot of waste at the end Um, where she just kind of idles and comes to a stand still. So what I'm actually going to do is I'm going to quickly pause it and I'm just going to Remove everything after there. Okay. So we've got a much shorter animations. This will look So you can see shinbi's running at full speed So she's got this full run and then she comes to a stop Um and because of the way that paragon does animation I think we talked about this a couple of weeks ago mongoose when we started talking about animation Paragon's very template driven. So um because they have heroes every three weeks All this animation in snobcap is incredibly expensive. You think you've got a guy in a warehouse with ping pong balls Scotch taped to his head and these arms like that sort of stuff is really Expensive to go and organize. So what paragon want to do is the other animators, they wanted to make it as inexpensive as possible For doing animations and stop distances is this stop matching It's also called reverse root motion was one of the ways that they wanted to do that So what we're going to do is we're going to take this animation and we're going to walk through it backwards To give you an idea. So shinbi stood here. This is her stationary And if we go back a little bit You can see that um as shinbi backs up You can see how she's slowing down So she's going really fast in a forward motion And then at some point in the middle She decides she's going to put on the brakes right there You can see that the weight moves from her legs change shape So her legs are running and then they change to the knee comes in And her thighs compress and she slows down So she's like throwing her weight into it and slowing down till she comes to a complete stop Now because of the way this animation is done, I can either be going really fast and slow down Or if I stop a little bit there, you see that I can actually control how much of the animation I use Okay, yeah So if I say I'm just walking, you know, I don't actually have to go all the way through this stop animation Because it'll look really really long if I'm going really slow And I go through all this animation my feet are going to slide I'm going to take forever to stop and that's not what you want in a video game Like you want if I stop I stop if I start I start but you still want it to look good So this um this section down the bottom this curve that you can maybe see This is known as a distance curve and it's um something that's in paragon It's used in fortnight as well It has not been made available to the public properly like the curves here But unless you know what you're doing, there's nothing really that you can do with this curve So you cannot use this technology unless you're very familiar with the unreal engine So for the time being You need to either work around it or do something differently But this curve is known as the distance curve and what it does is it calculates where shinby's going to stop So if you imagine shinby's running along And she's coming to a stop This curve is used to predict when shinby will stop So for example here, um, she's probably going to be traveling Maybe I don't know six foot Maybe a little bit less not about six foot. So shinby's going to travel six foot So what that means is the game knows that she needs to come to a complete stop and six feet Um, and it uses this curve. This is a this curve is almost like the distance away from the stop So you see this marker here at the end of the curve this one here it says zero That is when shinby comes to a complete stop So her feet aren't planted yet But she shouldn't have any forward motion So you can see that her her feet are just settling So this foot her left foot Give you a better angle Scoot round You can see here at this point here her left foot doesn't actually move Okay, she stopped Right that left foot is planted on the ground So even though her right foot is just settling and coming to normal shinby is done So this marker here is that I'm done stopping And yeah, she'll like sit and move but it's done there And then if I move back away, you'll see that the legs start to travel away And so okay. Yeah, I can use this curve to figure out exactly Where I need to stop So if I'm on a controller and I'm only pushing a little and I need to stop a little bit It'll just use a little bit the animation to come to a stop like it would have to do the full thing Likewise if I'm running really fast, I've like I've got like blue buff and I've got I don't know Like a movement card or a dash or speed or nabash speeds me up I'm probably gonna be really fast. So I might use more of the animation Um, give you one more example I know People were quite keen to see boy Boris He's looking at no, no, I'm just digression. How cool does Boris look? Yeah, right when you look at the fur. He just looks so cool I'm looking really looking forward to the the remake games Getting him out in the players hands So we can properly play him for the first time Um, but this is his jog left stop So you can see that as he comes to a stop Um, his uh, his stock is actually quite abrupt because he's a much heavier character And the animation required is a bit different. So you can see again We're looking at this foot. So has left on your right You can see as a back out How the uh, that's the stop point and then the animation sells from there on then So he kind of does the same so depending how fast he's going You can come to a stop and again, it uses this distance curve It calculates where Boris will stop And then it uses that driven from the game to play the right level of animation So that means that regardless of the speed you're going Your feet stick to the ground Um, and it looks natural. So it doesn't look like you're playing excessive heavy animations Yeah, um, and that's that so that's it kind of in a nutshell I don't know if you had any questions or anything else you wanted to see No, that that's absolutely fantastic. That's uh, that's really cool. So yeah, so it's it's basically they're they're manufacturing their own inertia Yes, exactly. Yes. Um, or calculating the inertia that the character is going to have Um, to figure out how much they need to back out from it like that this technology is called distance matching But it's also called reverse root motion So it's figuring out not where my character is but where my character is going to be Um, right and calculating from that using and then assigning the animations Yep, basically it goes mostly where are you stopping and then it picks it on the curve And this curve then drives the animation in game. It goes, okay So yeah, you actually see here. Um, this point is time is point three and the value is minus 55 So that looks uh, that looks for when Boris is going to be stopping at 55 units say Um, and then it then plays it from this time. So it calculates that and then plays it out. Um, And this is this is like really really this is like the the top fancy stuff for paragon Um, and it was really driven because when you've got heroes coming out every three weeks If you're able to half or quarter The amount of animations you need for these heroes and still make them look as good Um, like that's a massive saving and a massive time saving Saving for their mo cap team their animators Um, all the all the people that have to put the animations together all the programmers It's super super simple, but you still have that amazing paragon level of animation quality Yeah, that's really cool. I really appreciate you showing us this this uh When I when I watched this myself I didn't get it at all like that was I was lost in the sauce But yeah, you broke the way you broke it down and I actually understand this now I really appreciate that. Um, you're very welcome and like, um, it's worth my note of thing I just want to find one more here's one here. Okay. So this is a shinby one and this is a really really clunky one Um, no, no, that's not the right one. That's not the right one. Um, there's another shinby one That's that's really bad. I think it's her This is sinks one. Yeah, here's another zinks one. Um, that I just wanted to quickly show Um Some of the feet sliding and you can see here the feet are much snappier For some reason shinby is really bad. Um with her animations and a lot of the other characters are much better So you can actually see the curves a lot shorter But when you go through these curves are all over the place. Some have really long animations. Some have really short And it's because their animators didn't have to worry about the length and doing all that extra work They could just record this hero stopping Um, and does she have it? She should have it where her feet notifies Okay, this one doesn't have it. Um, I want quickly See if this shinby has it. She doesn't have it either. Does she have notifies? She does not Uh, see sometimes some of the heroes have what are known as foot notifies, which are the uh The feet stopping they actually record them to do it as well, but these ones don't have them And I take it well too good, but hopefully that kind of gives you the idea and the gist of uh Distance matching and it gives you an idea. Um, but I will say longest This distance matching stuff is gonna be one of the hardest things That um, the remake teams are gonna have to bring in if they want to Like capture all that paragon animation stuff. This is the uh, this is the the the tough tough one Okay, um I recently got a I got a chance to run around one course map, um Kind of giving away the time that we're recording this but uh, they're they're calari um Kind of had this As far as like take off and um in stopping there was you know, there was a bit of inertia involved However, they they actually had like you were actually slower as you took off not just your animations But the speed of your hero is is a little bit slower as you take off And i'm kind of wondering if they uh, if they did any of this I I tried asking but I don't think I was asking the right person Yeah, and then maybe it's like it's not hard like this stuff's not impossible Like the only thing that um, like they've given us everything to do it You just have to have a programmer that goes in They like definitely like there's definitely possible like there's ways you can get around not having this Like there's a couple especially especially um as we talked about like if you're not using controller There are a lot of ways that you can make it look as good because you only have to worry about starting stop You don't have all the analog stick 5% 10% 20% um But yeah, like if you add in some speed warping and then some Um, like figure out the stops to start You can probably make something look good without it just not like when like but again when you get to controller time in ps4 That's when this is going to be a lot more critical right, yeah Right. Oh man. I really appreciate really appreciate you explaining to us the uh the distance matching because that uh That definitely broke it down for me. Uh, hopefully hopefully everybody was able to grasp that and understand It a little better and uh realize what it takes to make these heroes come alive Uh, yeah, very welcome as always if you have any questions either file it on to mongus, um, or come find me somewhere more than happy to help All right, I appreciate it ruba. Well, uh, I'll go ahead and link his uh twitch and youtube down in the uh video description below All right, everybody. I hope you enjoyed tech time with the ruba. It's always very interesting I think so at least so we're going to move on to our topic for discussion this week Which is which paragon heroes do we think kind of needed a rework? Um jackal you had a lot of input on this throughout the week. So why don't you kick us off and let us know Uh, who you think needed reworked and how you would rework them Yeah, okay, so um, originally I thought howitzer needed one of the uh reworks Um, his ultimate was very unreliable as everybody knows it was it was good crowd control and only really good synergy with uh decker um And being able to control the final nuke would be a big game changer I think uh, I think it should be kind of shot like an r2000 where he's up in the sky and just Shoots down the final nuke after all the mines go off. Um, and then the slow mines I think that the way they shot out and the way they activated were a bit uh finicky uh, so I thought that instead of just going off and being a slow mine dealing damage They go off and be a slow field in those little target areas And then with an initial damage explosion, uh upon, you know detonation um And then uh, I mean the knock mine really didn't really need to change much. Um, But it doesn't really knock howitzer Uh high enough to do uh any sort of escapes Um, I guess it I it was really good for escaping enemies who were close to you and you can just knock them away Uh, but if you're an experienced player, you could easily just uh know that it's coming And then uh, his r2000 was easily the best in his kit. I think by far Um, it was an extreme range poke which you know, uh Getting would be the next person who would be extreme range poke. Um, but having the r2000 Was think a little bit bigger uh of a range and I think it did a bit more damage too um And then I think terra obviously She was like the last hero to come in the paragon and uh her kit was not great Uh didn't really help with her um release Um, her ultimate was probably the most unique. Uh, I mean cc immunity and being able to run through everybody was probably what made her kit what it was But every other ability in her kit really didn't complement it well enough Um for her to be able to do anything with that fault in this because all she would do is run in and then just kind of sit there Yeah, yeah, you're right there. I I didn't get an opportunity to play terra all that much. Um When I came in I did play the crap out of her for a little bit just so that I could do an honest hero review for her. Oh, yeah, and uh apparently from the overview I kind of hit it on the head with her but I had a few I've been doing these videos on my channel called call to arms where I'm talking about stuff that I think should be changed from Paragon with uh predecessor and core and I was actually putting a lot of thought into terra. Um I think worthless assault. I don't know if you've ever played balona in smite But I think uh or ruth has called it worthless assault, didn't I ruthless assault? I think could use the balona treatment where the initial first swing The more people you hit with that first swing Amplifies the damage of the second swing. I think if they did that with terra I think that would be really cool on a really unique thing for her Maybe uh increase the range of that initial swing So they should uh grab more minions I think an armor shred would go great there uh to amplify that damage and having it as kind of like a utility for the Rest of your team to be able to deal more damage to whatever she's targeting as the tank You mean like the first swing does armor shred and the second swing. Yeah. Oh, yeah, that would be cool. Yeah, that would be cool And uh the other stuff of her kit. I think will actually work better In these in these newer games Like she had the thing where she could activate it and absorb an attack and gain a shield Yeah, um It didn't it was hard to use because everybody was shooting so fucking fast towards the end in the paragon It was just hard matter. Yeah, it was just hard to to pick what what you're gonna What you're gonna, you know, eat which which ability you're gonna eat or which Attack you're gonna eat. So I think with a slower pace. I think that'll be a much better and more effective ability and I think uh Her ultimate would be perfect For dunking in core like yes, it'd be very close to the core you activate her ultimate run through everybody's bullshit and just dunk it Yeah, uh, I think that um in her kit um Having the uh cc immunity Uh, it wouldn't I guess I guess it would be really good for uh dunking. Yes, but um, it would also be really Um, I feel like it would destroy the game a little bit at the same time too because if you just have a terra And you get the core, uh, you pretty much can just run through the entire enemy team without worrying about it And then don't work. Um, I think I watched predict one of predict's videos where he touched on like a delay Uh for the core dunk. So it'd be like a king of the hell thing We stand there for about a few seconds before it activates. I think that's uh, a pretty good idea to counteract any sort of, um Uh special ultimates that would or like special movements, uh that you could beat someone there or whatever Run through an entire enemy team unhindered Yeah, uh, I think it's a a good spot I mean even if you like run a muriel and muriel's on the other side of the map with the core buff somebody runs into the pit Um, and not the pit the core dunk spot and then just flies across the map Which was a common strategy and legacy. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, it was a huge strategy. I was always annoyed that a lot of me I mean other heroes too like If you gave revenant the uh the orb He could just ult one person and then it's just him and that person And then he could just go dunk without having to worry about the rest of their team. Exactly. Yeah, and then, um I think Tara's uh shield block thing is a lot like gravestone in uh, I think they'd kind of just reuse the ability there That was like a sense of reusing an ability near the end there Um, and I think to expand on it it would it should take a percentage of the damage that it would have dealt as a shield instead of Uh a flat shield per level Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that would be cool Uh, Mandy who do you think needed a rework? The first hero that came to mind was wukong. Unfortunately, um, he just was Kind of kind of broken kind of op. Um kind of had skills that were Unnecessary almost um because he was already so Powerful like why why did he need a stun? Why did he need you know? And I don't know that I mean, I think that's kind of a common one And I definitely didn't do uh the research that jackal did and to come up with Ways to fix that. Um, I'm very very impressed by that And I actually love your suggestions for howitzer because howitzer was one that I would play around with from time to time And had a lot of fun with and your suggestions would make him 10 times more fun Um, but yeah, so I don't know how I would personally fix wukong. Um, because I really didn't even play him I just know from playing against him It was like infuriating sometimes the way he could just shred a tower With that 10 000 hairs or whatever it was and or you know, I don't know just a little little op in my opinion Yeah, not only could he shred a tower. He didn't even need minions. He could just jump in there to exactly And have the tower dead before he the tower could kill him It was even worse than legacy rampage Yes, it was it was worse than legacy rampage and it was far worse I mean gravestone used to do that. He used to just split push his ass off and uh, but gravestone didn't have the damage That wukong did through the 10 000 hairs. So it wasn't as bad of a problem when gravestone used to do it But yeah, that that that's the one I picked was wukong I think something they might be able to change to make him A little less overbearing in the split push department, but still keep his kit functional in a team fight I don't know if they they may have even tried this in in paragon, but I don't remember that if they did um Towers took less ability damage than they did basic damage. They took very very small amounts of ability damage They just changed 10 000 hairs to deal ability damage instead of basic damage That would kind of prevent him from being able to just destroy towers um Yeah, I don't know if they ever tried that though. They may have no, I don't think they ever did unless they did it off Off scene, but to be to be real. They didn't really try enough with what the community wanted. Yeah That seems like a very small simple solution just change His ultimate to deal ability damage instead of basic damage. I mean, he could still Scale with his attack speed and all that shit and just You know wouldn't the scale with his ability power? It would just I mean his attack power Is a basic damage. It would just you know scale with his ability power So I don't know. I think that would be a nice change for wukong. It might fix him Probably not because he was just too good at escaping Hmm. I think one of the main problems was that wukong kind of also had his ultimate crit Um, I think if you would have put it over to ability damage, you'd have to exchange for that crit Somewhere in there. Um, yeah Because he was not only was he getting split pushing, but he was obviously like one of the Like main solo lane dueling types um So I think changing his ultimate to that would fix it, but it would also break in uh, completely And pretty much got him You think so. Yeah, it might yeah Yeah, I don't think you'd be anywhere near as played. I think you would actually become a tank If that happened Yeah, he there was he was a problem though. I mean epic had to remove him from the game for a while He was such a big yeah that yeah, that was that was insane Well, hopefully all period the people behind the minds behind predecessor and core can figure out a way to bring wukong back without having him be so Damned broken I mean, even if they can't they'll listen to the community Yeah, yeah, they've done a great job of that so far So moving on from the topic of discussion Let's talk about jackals brainstorm. He wanted to talk about some uh, unofficial myths some myth creations for ethereal This is something that a lot of people really enjoy doing is creating their own heroes for Paragon or whatever or what have you and uh, you can't really create new heroes for paragon because those heroes are already in place Those assets are already there maybe way down the road But for ethereal and phoenix rising we can you know Maybe come up with some good hero ideas, you know submit them to uh to both teams and see what happens So jackal, what was your uh, what was your idea for a for a myth for ethereal? Uh, so everybody knows uh, I I mean gideon so Uh, I came up with a gideon type arc mage. So arc mage would be kind of like their uh, their mage uh, pretty much Um, and uh, I pretty much just gave him everything that gideon had Uh, and including I brought back the uh legacy meteor storm Where deal damage has a rain down I know that ability wasn't great, but I feel like um having an extra like effect with it would fix most of the problems um on top of that I also gave him a passive uh of every fourth every fourth spell cast a um, you would get extra pen And your next ability would have an extra effect. So, um, for example for my meteor storm, I would give it um A burn damage every three seconds or sorry every like 0.5 seconds But it would reapply and stack every time uh, you would take damage from inside the burning field that would be placed on the ground after the meteor storm Okay, right on. So it's kind of a mix between gideon and crunch. You would have to time How many abilities you had used to know which one that you want to add an effect to Exactly. Yeah, and then I kind of mixed in um I can't I can't really place which which hero this would be but um, I gave him a debris field that would uh, essentially block uh projectiles from hitting him For four seconds. So, um, I I gave uh the ultimate also a um I kind of uh like gideons all but you could cast abilities while in that ultimate phase So you'd be sitting there in the air sucking in people and also dropping meteor storms and the debris field around you. So you'd be dealing constant extra damage and then you could um, even just hit hit like debris field and have No projectiles hit you but you can still be stunned out of it by Uh, say like abilities. So when I say projectiles, I mean like uh basic attacks. Okay, gotcha. I was gonna say that seems a little overpowered if he's yeah, yeah Yeah, that that would not be fun, especially for the full duration. Um, yeah, and then Uh, I kind of had two ideas for an ultimate Um, so one would have like a black hole that you'd place and you'd select another enemy to be sucked into the black hole And then they would be executed if they're below a certain threshold Um when they were sucked in the center and then everybody else inside of the void would then uh be slowed But wouldn't be pulled in Okay, um, and then the other one was just uh getting to all the ultimate but with the uh with the um casting inside of it and uh And then just a massive explosion at the end of it. Um for its uh level up So it it would be like a big bang and just float everywhere and deal extra damage. Um It's slow and yeah, it would just be Uh a game changer if you could pull that off in a team fight where you're losing Now when you say debris field, do you mean just like like something that surrounds him kind of spins around him? Yeah, sorry. Yeah, sorry. It would be it. Yeah, it'd be something that spins around him. Um, and it would tick damage But I don't think I gave it a slow unless you Uh had that fourth extra um Ability built up Yeah, that would be pretty cool. That would be a cool thing to have for sure Especially if you want especially as a caster when you're trying to take down a um a ranger hunter ADC whatever you want to call them If you can have a way to negate their basic attacks You actually have a chance against them late game as opposed to just getting shredded instantly Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean if you want I can give it to you and you can either put in like the description or something Yeah, I'll throw it up there luck for whatever. Yeah Oh, yeah, sounds good. I'll give you a picture of yourself here Maybe you got any uh any ideas for myths or anything? No, I am definitely not creative enough. That's why I didn't bother with the lore content or anything That's all good. So uh if you guys have an idea for for a myth or a uh What do they call them in phoenix rising again masters if you have ideas for a myth or a master Let me know in the comments below and maybe we can feature it in the next for the minions for now Let's move on to the community builder Um after I did last weeks for the minions I had a couple people ask me if they could use the uh the footage of the core map And of course I let him do it because I don't care And uh one of the one of the people that asked me was a guy named jelly knees And uh his youtube channel like I subscribed to it. I was I was the third subscriber like it's very tidy But his video was awesome like you would think that he'd been doing it for years Maybe he has been doing it for years and just decided to start a gaming youtube channel because The video was on point. It was well edited. It was what he was really well spoken. He had a lot of good points So uh check out jelly knees um I'll like uh, I'll like the video at the end of this Video in the uh on the end card. So um, yeah, it was rally around him I'm sure he's gonna he's gonna be big so get in there and be one of his first subscribers So you can say I was there before he got huge Go pump him up. We'll pump him up Cool All right, uh, I think that's it for this time. Let's move on to plugs. Uh jackal. You got anything you want to plug Uh, I guess just my twitch. Um, I guess just jack will fell That's my uh twitch plug. Um, I guess that's I don't really uh stream too much though I just kind of wanted to get on here and share some stuff with you guys and And uh, hopefully get some extra pointers out there and the the myth talking all that Yeah, it was great to have you on here, man I hope to come back soon Absolutely Mandy anything you want to plug? um, I don't have anything new out as of yet not since my last video about the core map but I am going to be doing some more of like the cheapskate gaming and mediocre gaming and stuff like that right on right on right on that'll be coming soon And for me, I'll just go ahead and plug our patreon again. Um, it is uh patreon dot com slash For the minions go ahead and check that out if you want to support the show that the money from that's going to go Towards trying to improve the show a little bit But uh, I think that's going to be it for this episode. It was a fun one I appreciate everybody coming out to watch, but that is going to be all for now. Goodbye everyone Amanda Goose