 Good afternoon. An agency that's been making waves in India is WaveMaker and we have the global CEO of WaveMaker with us, Toby Jenner. Toby, welcome to Exchange for Media. Thank you, thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. Thank you. Let's get started, Toby. Toby, firstly, you've mentioned that you want WaveMaker should be the most wanted agency in the world. What is the criteria for you to be the most wanted agency in the world and how do you assess the performance? Well, I think it's important to just take a step back and explain why we created this idea about being most wanted and it was really to inspire and infuse every single one of the team at WaveMaker around the world and in India in particular to recognise that we might not be the biggest but that doesn't necessarily mean you can't be the best and we wanted to capture that essence in a kind of motivating and exciting way and that's really how we struck upon this idea of being most wanted and we'll know when we've done it when we're awarded business without pitching. So it's like the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. It's not really something you ever achieve but how we measure it on a kind of more tangible day-to-day basis is really across four facets of our business. One around people, one around growth and one around the finances and also the product. So if I just take those one by one, so for our people, I want our people to be positive advocates for working at WaveMaker so we measure that. We measure on a scale of one to ten how keen people are to work at WaveMaker to be at WaveMaker and inspired to be at WaveMaker and currently we score an eight out of ten so we have positive advocates on average across the world. Obviously that has differences in terms of new business. We have a target that we aspire to hit every year and in terms of the product we deliver our clients, we look at how often it's used by individual teams, by individual markets and then finally obviously we have financial commitments to deliver to WPP and our stakeholders and that's another key metric. So there are four key metrics and then clients obviously run throughout each of those four key metrics and that all ladders up to us and the idea of being most wanted but ultimately we achieve that by positively provoking growth for our clients and our people and it's that idea that we empower our people around the world to have a point of view that really ladders up to hopefully be most wanted. You mentioned pitching right so with clients demanding more bang for the buck how is WaveMaker addressing the needs of the client for today as well as tomorrow? Well I think most pitches that we are part of like every agency have a consistent framework they want great people, great data, great technology, great strategy so I think you have to be brilliant at everything to win a pitch you have to be great commercially as well so I don't think there's any one element I think you have to obviously deliver on all fronts but I do think that people ultimately make the difference it's the people who use the AI, it's the people that drive the data, the technology, it's people that drive the strategy, it's people that partner and build relationships with our clients so from a new business perspective I think it's all of the above. Taking on from what you said you mentioned relationship with the client as a media veteran how have you seen the relationship between the client and the agency evolve? I think the clients that get the best from their agencies build a strong partnership if I look at the clients that we work with some in India the likes of Mondales for example there's a very strong relationship across the whole of Southeast Asia, South Asia and we work very closely and very collaboratively with Mondales as much as we do with our crazy patients and partners so for me it's those types of clients, L'Oreal, Colgate, Danone, we work collaboratively where the clients will get the most benefit from their agency and whether that's us or another agency you know I think ultimately that's that's how clients will benefit, drive their business forward, deliver greater ROI and ultimately you know grow their business and their sales. But you know the frequency of pitches has really increased compared to the past why is this happening and there's a frequent you know clients are also frequently switching over their agencies what why do you think believe this is happening? I don't know if they're more frequent than they used to be I think there's a tenure of relationship I think is three years tends to be about the average amount I think there are commercial pressures, macroeconomic pressures impacting the world economy and I think you know a lot of the costs are being passed down to consumers from from clients business but it's right and proper that they should look across the entire supply chain that they employ and make sure that they're enjoying the most effective not always the most efficient but the most effective relationships and I think that's where you have to get the balance right between cost efficiencies and effectiveness of delivery to grow the business you know no one's ever going to cut themselves to growth so I think having a client that gets that balance right is important I think one way of doing that is pitching it doesn't always have to be I'm seeing more closed pitches where we're having conversations with clients about how we can support their business how their business is evolving and therefore how our service to them needs to involve over the the lifetime of the relationship. Now if there was one idea that you believe will transform the sector going ahead what is that? One idea oh my god well I think everyone's obviously going to be talking about AI in CAN I think what's interesting is the kind of connectivity that AI has and the impact of relationship between the global platforms and the publishers and the commercial relationship they have to fuel the learning in AI and then what that means for news organisations and I mean proper news organisations with paid for journalists and I can see a bit of a reset of that supply chain to ensure that there's additional funding for great journalism for great narratives for great writing and accurate writing to counterbalance fake news through the lens of AI so that for me is very exciting as we move forward. Don't you think that's at all order in today's age? I think that you have to be optimistic. Agree but other than AI is there any other technology or sector which you think will probably disrupt the the entire business going ahead? I think we've got enough on our hands with AI at the moment I think that the work that I'm seeing uh funding we had a session earlier on today and our global head of applied innovation Sarah Salsall was presenting along with many of our colleagues and I think the work that I saw there work for the Royal Navy, work for L'Oreal, work for Pernod Ricard, I think that is really setting the bar and I think that can be a real catalyst for growth in a way that we haven't experienced it before. Now there's a lot of talk of economic uncertainty, what is the kind of sentiment that you are picking up? Well certainly I think it's mixed, I think there are some clearly some macroeconomic challenges I think we need to, I think everyone's waiting with bated breath. I'm not seeing it come to the fore yet, I'm seeing our forecast for global advertising revenue up six percent so that for me is good growth, I don't think it's as strong as potentially we may have expected. I mean in India we've reduced it was 16 percent at the end of December, we've reduced that down to 12 percent but it's still twice that of the global average of six so I feel good about India, hopefully the cricket towards the end of the year will give us an additional bounce but I think it's waiting and managing costs accordingly and making sure that we are ready should there be a drop in the economy moving forward. Certainly interest rates, inflation, I kind of see the green shoots for that slowing down and being managed and I hope that we can ensure that we drive our business forward on the back of that. So India will be an out performer even then that's good to hear? Absolutely, absolutely I mean it's one of our top five markets for WaveMaker and it's got a huge opportunity for growth, I mean as I said before we came to the interview you know with just one racket we've just retained kind of rickard so we're growing anyway but then the natural size and scale of the market is also growing so we're really well placed there and as long as we keep producing great work on behalf of our clients I think we'll be in a good position. Now coming to like you mentioned India team WaveMaker India had a very impressive 2022 both in terms of wins and also award campaigns so how close is how do you believe the Indian leadership will maintain the growth momentum going ahead? Well I think we have to invest in talent we've recently brought on achieved creative officer I prefer the word content officer to help I think fuel the way in which the world is going which is more addressable content more tailored bespoke content for our clients I feel good about the leadership team we've got we've got a great leader in Ajay with a great group M leader in terms of PK and a great leader in terms of Shrinni for WPP so I think when I look at the leadership in India the collaboration that I see amongst those three leaders we're set for a for a good future. Any learnings from India which you believe could translate across other markets? Well I think India is the most purpose led market in the world I think we can certainly learn from that I think there's a lot of opportunity to take some of that purpose led work and cascade it around the rest of the world so for me purpose is really a critical component of the success we've seen in India around the world so certainly from an awards perspective and I think increasingly it's important for our colleagues to feel as though they're rallying behind a common purpose for a client's business that is changing the market that they're operating within India is a great example. How important is it now becoming brands for brands to be purpose led? I think it's usually important but but they have to be authentic we can't just badge so if I think about Cabri you know the work we did with Sherukh Khan last year Cabri has an essence and a spirit of generosity so when you have that spirit and that essence and you deliver on it it works it doesn't work if you're just badging your brand to a purpose of whatever area it may be you have to have it at the very DNA of the business that's why I think Cabri works that's why I think something like Colgate works around smiles there's a there's a brand truth in it so I think it's very important but I think it has to be very tailored and it has to be authentic. How do you think Indian talent can probably contribute more to WaveMaker Network Lobby? Great question I think talent from all around the world should be able to enhance WaveMaker globally if I think about Premjit Sodi so Premjit works for our team in India he's moving to New York he's going to take on a global role on measurement and effectiveness so Premjit's a great example of Indian talent coming out and developing in another market and taking on a global role so I feel very good about the talent in India and the role they can play around the world and Premjit's just one example of that. You forgot to mention Sindhu Jairai who's just last week taking over as Apexio so what can we expect from her when she steps into the shoes as the Apex head? Well Sindhuja is coming from Mandalay so she's not coming from WaveMaker I'm super excited Indian talent again super excited about Sindhuja joining she's a rare talent she's a lovely lovely person so I think she'll put her arms around our region and connect everyone behind a common goal and ambition that we've spoken about already and she's got bucket loads of experience you know she's the global investment lead for Mandalay's so I think that will be hugely important as clients look to drive commercial efficiency she's the consumer experience lead in Amir for Mandalay's so ultimately looking at how full funnel paid-on shared media comes together and I think she's just a really lovely person and that was the genesis of obviously our conversation and how we connected. Finally your key focus area is looking ahead? New business we have an enormous amount of new business at the moment globally so just kind of a thank you to all the team teams around the world who've supported on that we can make our business very complicated but at the end of the day it's about having great relationships with our existing clients supporting them in their business challenges and helping them deliver growth and winning more clients for the group and for WPP so it's as simple as that not easy to do but as simple as that to say. Thank you so much Toby for your time you mentioned that you may not be WaveMaker may not be the biggest agency in India but you're definitely backing a big bunch thank you so much thank you