 Nama hatisha huwa katia ni mkutunati kawano. Kostu na binutuna ma идеa. Pa kukukutu wa je kijimia tsupu. Kwiha kel Makkon? Like yo Hilare, kusyo kutunata narek na kampata uzuwa ya Tbiko. Uzuwa ya tbiko aapimia na Jenko. Uzuwa yama, kutunata b�isha. So he was in an office that he was not actually able to feel, even himself he was like he is not there but he is there. Second to that he was not willing to actually prosecute any case because considering that from the background when you do all these interviews, when a candidate emerges first, why do we always go to pick the 10th candidate? First thing, on the foundation alone, that tells you that there was something wrong. Picking candidates that didn't qualify to go and now work with all that competency, the effectiveness and the efficiencies now needed out of them, they kind of deliver. So I think the major problem was he was not actually a man right for the office. Second thing, he has not been in a position to display what is made of. And if you talk of Hajji, you know Hajji is a person who actually is from the forces. Not only that, he is willing to actually now make that institution to be independent and to portray it that it is worth working for the people. One person that I can actually all my felicitations is one Nujir Hajji because that guy is ready to make Kenya feel that there is something that is going on. Today even I am a boy around or maybe a girl will tell you that they know the name. Not because he is running around but because he is making them feel that you have been losing money. But there is a way we can recover this money. So everything gets back to the court now. So can the court also prove to us that the independency that we are talking about within these institutions, can they portray the key of the asset, can they portray the lock in terms of now prosecuting these cases to a level whereby we no longer talk of them as cases within courts. But then can we give a time frame because election petitions there is a time frame that they will always be concluded. Why don't we now also say because corruption is a menace. Why don't we give a time frame for these corruption cases that within six months or within three months and we give time for these that they need to be expedized so that we can get all these cases concluded and Kenyans recover the looted funds and the assets are also recovered. That is what we need to hear. Ngojuri, he has mentioned of competence. As you respond to the same question, what is Nudin Hajji doing that Kiriakoto Biko was unable to do? Okay, first of all even before I give my open allow me say hi to the viewers that are watching us tonight from all parts of this country and it has been a while since I caught up with my friend here, Karl Max. I think this is a good convergence of ideas. Nudin Hajji and his team and the way he has led the fight against corruption was its expression to the political goodwill that we are having in the country. In not more than a year we could hear a lot of public sentiments and political rhetorics from leaders that will fight corruption and make sure that we end it. Then a month later we heard a handshake which affirmed the fight against corruption and at least that political significance has brought a lot of change in the way Kenyans view corruption and in the way leaders also find themselves in that very same problem. So from where I sit we have heard a lot of shift from people saying no don't arrest this person, he comes from a region. Yes we have some of them who are saying that even as now but at least it is moot that doesn't count and the political goodwill has done a good job. You just reminded me of something I saw on Twitter that kishikatuna wachilia. You just mentioned the handshake. Does it mean Honorable Raila has an upper hand in regards to fight against corruption? Of course you have to look at this way. See if Raila Odinga would not have shook hands with President Uhuru Kenyatta then we would be having a parallel politics in Jubilee and then we would be having parallel politics in ODM. Thus this would mean that when you target someone who comes from the Jubilee party then it would seem like yes he is from our party but again you also need to look at people from the other side but now since the two protagonists that is President and Raila Odinga shook hands at least we have seen a convergence of agreements that yes we have lived in this country and we have seen a lot of animosity in terms of elections We have also heard corruption as one of the impediments to economic emancipation of our people and thus we need to come together and join hands and fight corruption so it was just a merge of efforts and a merge of goodwill which then both routes that even generations here to come will enjoy. We can appreciate that the handshake brought peace but also it has brought some differences in the house and I mean Jubilee because we have seen there is an emergence of two teams and most of them are the people that have been mentioned but now in the first term of President Uhuru Kenyatta he struggled so much in fighting corruption and every other time we would say we are fighting corruption but nothing was forthcoming at least this time round we are seeing heads rolling How do you say Honorable Raila is doing something? Thank you Hilary First of all I forgot actually to send my condolences to my friend Obonyo because you know Dr. Laboso was that lady who is always true to her course and we've lost another pill in terms of the leadership of this nation so my condolences to the family, to Kenyans and the raila teams Back to your Facebook The political goodwill in any time you want to fight corruption first thing you must always actually learn is supposed to be the political goodwill now in this case it is something that has been served so the only work is now for people now to do what? to eat and so therefore what has happened is this First of all let me say this there is no community who will convene a meeting somewhere to discuss how to steal, to pilfer, to plunder a country there is no community who can actually sit anywhere to discuss how a country can be stolen but then you join the forces for the protagonists they come together and say ok fine can we now talk of what we are losing and why we are losing them so what we are losing in this country for your information a third of our budget is lost through looting this is not even corruption this is outright looting because do you know the executive actually convinced the common man that if you talk of a better health facility if you talk of water supply if you talk of electricity connectivity if you talk of road building of roads then those to them becomes the development that the government is doing to their citizens which of course let me put it very clear those are not part of what a civilized sophisticated government is supposed to be talking of as development those are merest deliverables that a government is actually doing courtesy of the taxes they deduct from Hilary Kariuki Algalwaks now when a government gets to their feet and then they say we talk of development it is a government who will sit there and say number one our GDP is upward sloping number two it is a government who can stand with authority and say that our public debt is downward sloping it is a government that will talk of an economy that is export driven I am telling you there because that is where now the corruption comes because what the government is talking of in terms of corruption is what the government is not supposed to be talking about because if you talk of the dance that we are not talking about these are just merest deliverables because of our taxes now if money has been borrowed to go direct to the development then how do we get to a level where now we discuss it as somebody has stolen what has been borrowed you get what I mean really so here we need now to get clear to our government and ask that why do you still what you borrowed for development but the question was why do we make a country look like each and every time we get an opportunity our work is to enrich ourselves you get what I mean here I think for us to stop all this corruption thing we need to shun, we need to shim and we need to convict anyone who will supply air in this nation number two we need to now get back and ask ourselves any person who will import anything that is killing agriculture in this nation that is not a friend to Kenyans number three these people does they have so much money you get what I mean and then can we now get back and ask ourselves there is no something the corruption is not attached to any tribe if you still as Hillary we now need to get you as Hillary and then can we now make all our institutions to can we support, can we culture our institutions to work so that all what we need not only a matter of only arresting them but can we convict them to recover but you didn't answer my question when too far has Rayla played any role a key role because what Rayla has done has actually given the president the energy to give the political goodwill to the institutions to work effectively and efficiently so therefore Hagiwei siti knows very well that this thing is not going to be another political antagonism it's about now working for the people and we need to deliver Gojiri very fast every attempt to arrest these people or convict them in courts it has been met with political statements our people are being targeted why is this so if we have the political goodwill from the executive why is it so that other politicians now the legislators are here saying apana is our person why is that so ok that one is bound to happen in the political ecosystem and if you have observed our country is experiencing a paradigm shift in institutional and governance the fact that a cabinet secretary and a sitting permanent secretary as well can be arrested and also charged replaced within a few hours it tells you that the president means business and from where I sit we still have a long way to go in terms of the fight against corruption and at least I am optimistic because I have been able to see and assess and also analyze the energy that is in our president I also think that Kenyans are now beginning to become aware of their civic participation duty and even walking in the streets listening to bar talks listening to women as they fetch water and listening to riverside gossip you can hear people talking about there is this kando they will mention names even if they are not sure and do not possess such an analytical adept you will hear them saying this government or this administration whether county or national is heading us nowhere and this is now bringing and tiling pressure to institution of governance to work hard we always talk of the people's power as it was ratified 1989 during the collapse of the Berlin Wall that is one of the stepping stone of what today is that people can join together and pile pressure on institution of governance to ensure that their voice is hard and that which will determine and shape their future is incorporated in that very discussion so I think we are headed in the right direction and the fight against corruption will be won very soon he has mentioned this bound to happen time is running out he has mentioned that this will continue politicians will always say something but now does the office of the DPP as we speak now have enough evidence to convict these people and make sure they go to jail you know when you talk of suspect then that means there is some element of criminality within the word suspect so just that whether it's a drop you identify yourself from the people so that drop can you tell us why you have a drop when others don't have a drop so in this case it is not about first of all we need to agree have we lost money while there is some illegal transfer of money the answer is yes do we have any dam no do we have some money lost in this country the answer is yes so therefore what we have lost this is what we are asking those people who are actually responsible for these offices to get us back the money because there is no work done so therefore there is no other way you can maronate it iconistically we need to hold these people accountable and for from where is it I think we are even trying to make our courts look like they are a policy making body okay they need to get away from that and so can we have special courts special courts not anti-corruption court special courts that deal specifically with anything called looting because we don't want to use the word corruption any looting any theft in this country and then we set a time frame we need no bails for these people because we are going to expect that is all these cases within a time frame because you stolen get to those courts prove yourself within a period of 3 months we will know whether you need to get to committee or you need to get back and be with the people but during this time I think we need to support the DCI we need to support the the EACC we need to support the DPP let them do their work politicizing all these things will not give us back our money exactly those who are very good in those gatherings funeral churches and whatever the power and the magnitude at which they defend these lost money can they also use them actually to help us recover back our money so if you see a country that can actually send the cabinet secretary for treasury to court that tells you this thing as reached a point whereby it's a point of no return however just to add on what Karl Marx is saying that even if we were to bring ourselves out there and each and every one of us would hold those crude weapons and any other weapon that you can imagine go and remove these people from offices that's all will not solve the problem at hand so the assets and recovery agency must really pull their socks up and do their job but then even as we talk about prosecution of the suspects however he said that there is an aspect of criminality in that we must also remember that nobody in the law of natural justice who should be condemned and had and therefore we should not have what the president termed in the state of the nation address as vigilant justice where because someone has been mentioned in a scandal you move very fast to condemn him or her so do you process and the right institutions just like the deputy president like saying if you are not an investigator if you are not a lawyer and if you are not a judge please stop getting to the prespice of these cases what you can do is to assist if you have evidence and that's the same position that Raido Odinga has shared so let us be very careful so that we might lose we might be chasing an antelope and in the midst of that end up chasing a skewer so we need to be very careful so that we can get the goal and what we expect to have even as we speak of vision 2030 and the jubilee government which is rushing us time to fulfill on their re-election agenda that is a big four so I don't know whether time is over or is there anything else I knew you did about that the reason why sometimes we always try to make it look like when you are big fish you can steal you go to court you are given bonds you steal billions you get bonds of millions and then now you roam around here the next day you will be our governor the next minute you will be contesting for let me tell you if a young person who has not been given an opportunity to get job anywhere get to a point whereby they can even you know sometimes you don't got this magalas do you know what happens you go just try to steal anything in Dandora or Eba now why do we try to please these people that when they steal money from us now they become gods when now ordinary people who are struggling with their lives can even get an opportunity to get something to do because somebody stealing their future the money they are stealing are what are making these young people now to get into Zimbabwe but if the opportunity could have been there for them then we could have been talking of an environment whereby you can do business you can get jobs ok so the only option is this and I think sometimes we need to be more radical when we want to deal with the reality it is you know the sentiments that I always get from these politicians that you know we have to follow the rule of law we have to do what ok the rule of law we followed since 1963 we've never recovered all what has been lost in this country Makiu, could it be that we've recovered what was lost or what we've been losing from 1963 to date so this is the thing we need as a country we need to get back any podium will be mentioned in anything first of all you don't hold office anything that touches your name first of all let us also recover but we have faith especially in politics that's what I'm saying let the government first of all recover you also go to court claim what the government is owing because you ask why is it that we are the people to come for you when already we know what you are owing the government and the people so before you steal our future we also need to steal your life alright but the revolution is almost coming if these people are not stealing let's finish with this now the chief justice David Marages on record saying we shouldn't blame the judiciary if the dismiss case is because of lack of evidence you just mentioned if you are taken to court there is something but also we get there there is no evidence this man never stole so they are set free and what will happen they will go back to their village and they will be voted as governor you see at least what we agree on we have no sanctification for this if someone is a thief that person is a thief and that cannot change so someone who has already been convicted is already a thief so that one is another different case but what we are saying are not lose the sense of the fight against corruption because we also assound people we need to be very careful that we don't lose the fight against corruption in the midst of that political mud slinging are you getting me? so that is specifically what I am saying and as I finish because I know you have asked me about the chief justice the chief justice is right and this is why in a case of a guy like Rotich you saw the DPP going all the way to Italy and perhaps doing their forensic investigations so that was a move in the right direction and it will then go a big way in affirming the Kenyan spirit fighting corruption there is always a very loyal hotel at home Gendawad Itaga village I don't know where I am they were Judas hotel they are always watching this discussion so that means that we are spreading the tentacles to the different parts of this country otherwise I am happy to be back on the set we have had a nice conversation and I look up with my friend Karl Max who always meet on the other side so today I don't know you are fine or comments I think the ordinary citizens now they have to understand that corruption is raising and it steals the future of this generation day in, day out things doesn't have any honor anywhere they will never feel that there is anything that is lacking in this nation so it is a high time you come out and fight for your space because the more you lose jobs the more companies are closing the more factories are closing the more we are going to reach a point where by now we cannot even sustain ourselves as the people were thinking we are persevering so it is a high time corruption does not have any other name it is either you have stolen you are a thief you have actually pilfered whatever you are looting first of all let the government recover all what you have been mentioned recover first you also go to court let us now claim what you are claiming that the government has so that we also recover what we need from the other side it will be very simple like that we won't even drag anybody in court the only simple thing is that the way somebody can get into snatching some funds and you deal with them instantly the same thing we need to start doing so that you will see there will be some sanity in this nation alright many thanks gentlemen for coming and sharing your comments they have been my guests in Gonjuri Kajuki and Karl Max Otien both a political analyst now coming up next is why Mashareki and DJ Tieska is very much ready I hope you are ready back home from me here many thanks I will see you again have yourself a good night my name is Dereva Hillary