 But our second presentation this afternoon comes from Richard Benjamin, who's the head of the International Slavery Museum, National Museums in Liverpool. A very big welcome to you, Richard. Richard done a massive amount of work on this area. He's an alumnus of Edge Hill College and then did his MA and PhD in Archaeology at University of Liverpool. He's held a revert scholarship at Harvard and his work on the Slavery Museum is I think probably well known to an enormous number of people who are here this afternoon. Very warm welcome to you. His title is Museums and Social Justice, Taking a Stand. Over to you. Thank you very much, Martin. And thank you for the invitation to speak here today. Welcome, everyone. And thank you, Danielle, as well, for your perseverance in getting me here. Adele, I thought that was a really interesting paper you just gave. And it just made me think, because I'm in Liverpool, of course. And I do believe the image you showed of the children's kind of hospital home in Islington was actually owned by the Liverpool Hope University for many years. So that building now as a new life. So thank you, everyone, for your time. What I will do now is try to use the dreaded screen share, which I will now do. Great. So when I was looking at how to approach this presentation, I thought the best way would be to to walk you through the work of the International Slavery Museum. And it's a museum I have been head of since 2006. So it's over 13 years now. And the museum opened on the 23rd of August, 2007. Now, I want to actually get to the Q&A. Because for me, that's the more interesting bit is having that engagement. So I'll speak for 15, 20 minutes tops, and then hopefully we can have an interesting Q&A session afterwards. So the image you see on the screen now is of a remarkable woman. And her name is Dorothy Cuyah, the late, sadly, Dorothy Cuyah. And she was one of the first people in Liverpool who developed a slavery history walk. So that wasn't a museum initiative. It was an individual like Dorothy, who was a Liverpool-born black individual, historian, engaged in the subject of slavery and someone like many members of the black community in Liverpool in particular, who demanded that the city looked at its slavery related past. So you can see just four words there. We remember, we act very simple, but really important. We remember, well, obviously, we're in Liverpool, which was the epicenter of the transatlantic slave trade. And it's incredibly important for us as a museum to make people aware of the city's role in that. But the main thing for me and the team was always to humanise the subject matter. So you can talk about your statistics and your chronologies, et cetera. But always remember to humanise the subject matter. So the agency of the subject when you're a museum like ISM is particularly important. We act, well, what that says is we're an active museum. We're trying to engage with issues that are relevant not only to the UK, particularly Liverpool today. And to do that, you need to be seen as someone who is part of that community. Not always easy as a museum. One thing I do say to people, never think of ISM in isolation at all. And I say to people, look at it as a part of a much greater narrative. And I've just put 40 years in the making. You could put a hundred years in the making, to be honest with you. But I just want to go through some of the things on this list and tell you why they're relevant to international slavery in the museum. So the Charles Rootman College, that was one of the first colleges in the UK that had any of its curriculum around black history. And it was very successful for many years. And you might just see the vague back image there. And sadly, now it's turned into flats. So it's no longer there. But it's an important point because many of the leading community educational resources in Liverpool, particularly in LA, that's Toxteth, which was traditionally seen as kind of the centre of the Liverpool black community. Although now it's very much changed and there's new demographics, etc. But it was really important because very few of those education establishments are still there. So the museum definitely had a part to play. And still today is seen as being fill in some kind of void. And next talk about losing the shackles. First report of the Liverpool enquiry into race relations in Liverpool, way back in 89, why is that relevant? After the Toxteth uprising, and you could have a whole presentation about this, early 80s, social unrest, a lot of difficulties in cities like Liverpool. For those of you that know anything about the history of Liverpool and at the time, the Conservative government, they were willing to have managed decline. So basically, they were letting the city kind of go in one sense, a certain way, they were willing for it to do that. So this report was put together by a number of academics, local community activists, the first black head of Liverpool Community College, Wally Brown. And it talked about what the city needed to do to kind of to patch up some of the issues around the disintegrating relationships that existed in the city, particularly between sometimes law enforcement and members of the community. But there's one recommendation in particular, which is really relevant. And it was that the city needed to have an establishment that looked at in detail the city's role. In the transatlantic slave trade. So as you can see on the list there, I talk about the transatlantic slavery gallery. 1994, in the basement of the Merseyside Maritime Museum. And for those of you that have never been, the slave museum is on the third floor today of the Merseyside Maritime Museum. It's part of a group of museums called National Museums Liverpool, largest series of museums outside of London. But in the early nineties, the Transatlantic Slavery Gallery was part of the Maritime Museum. So it was part of that narrative, very much a mercantile chronology of that. And even though it was positive that it was there, one of the things it didn't necessarily do is talk about the issues that affected in particular the black community today. But the only reason it was there is because of the activism and interest of people like Dorothy Cooley. And without that, it wouldn't have existed. So everything that I talk about today, we're only here because people demanded it. And that's a really important point I'm going to make there. Liverpool had a public apology in 1999. What do people make of apologies? Very hard to say. Yes, it's one of the only cities in the UK, not the only city in the UK to have an apology, but it's actions, not words, is it? And if you talk to many people in Liverpool today, they will say, well, what actually has happened as a result of that apology? So we opened in 2007, the Bison Territory of the Abolition of Slave Trade Act. We opened on the 20th of August, UNESCO Slave Remembrance Day, so a significant date. And in 2017, our 10th anniversary. So for over 10 years, we've been engaged in very difficult sense of discussions around the history of Liverpool and how that affects communities today. The museum's divided into three galleries, Life in West Africa and Slave in the Middle Passage. And the one that I'm going to focus on really here is Legacies, OK? And the reason I talk about Legacies because it was an absolute aim of the museum when it was being developed to make itself relevant. Now, here is a random selection of the exhibitions that we have hosted. And if I just pluck one of them out, Home Alone 2010. Home Alone is important because it was one of the first exhibitions that engaged in an active campaign with a partner organization. And one of the things that has been difficult and it's been challenging, but we think important. We wanted to broaden people's understanding of slavery and enslavement generally. So the car will always be transatlantic slave in its Legacies. But we wanted to introduce people to other forms of slavery and enslavement. And we wanted people to get active in campaigns. So this was working with Anti-Slavery International, one of the leading NGOs in the area. And it was to highlight the domestic workers around the world, particularly Haiti. So it set the tone for the types of relationships we wanted and how that's specifically linked into output, i.e. exhibitions. This is a quote from Kevin Coffey. And you can see they worked for a local National Historic Park. Quite a simple quote, but actually one I'm sure knowing Adele and he'll agree with this, it's not everyone in the museum sector still necessarily believe this, that museums are not neutral organizations, they are active social participants. And that's why a museum like ISM needs to make itself relevant. But equally, within the sector, that isn't something that's always agreed. Sometimes people think there should be that detachment from those issues. And you're particularly objective. But when the International Slave Museum opened, the intention was for people to make decisions where you would get engaged in certain campaigns and in attempt to see yourself as an activist as well. Now, even if you didn't want to do that, other people would draw you into that discussion. This is the sign just outside the museum. And obviously, we'll have an international audience here. So you might not all be familiar with who this organization is, but you can see a sticker at the top right, it's National Action. It's a white supremacist group. And it's actually now it's been outlawed in the UK and it's a ban on terrorism group. And they came to Liverpool several years ago. And when they were in the city, where did they head? Well, they came down to the International Slave Museum because they were trying to make some kind of statement because they felt threatened. They felt as if a museum that talked about in as true ways you can. Liverpool and the UK's role in the transatlantic slave trade and how many individuals became very wealthy of that and how much of the built environment is there because of the city's role in that and all those issues. So they felt threatened enough to come to the museum to try to make some kind of statements. And equally, this is just one of many images I could have shown you, very offensive images that don't want the museum necessarily to be there. They think it has an agenda. And in one sense, maybe it does have an agenda. It's to tackle the legacies of transatlantic slavery, such as racial inequality and hate crime. And because we want to do that, it's about partnering with individuals and communities and organisations that shares those beliefs. So if you do ever make a journey to the International Slavery Museum, our education centre, our education base is called the Anthony Walker Education Centre. And many of you may not have heard who Anthony was. He was murdered in a racial attack in 2006 in a part of Merseyside. And out of that horrendous event was born the Anthony Walker Foundation. Hope, not hate. And they don't preach hatred. They preach hope. And for many of us, if you're a son or your brother was murdered in this way, probably hate would be something that would be a natural feeling. But they've tried to be positive. Anthony was an athlete. Love basketball. So they've tried to educate people on the issues around hate crime. And I was invited to be a trustee about 10 years ago. And I'm very proud to say I'm still a trustee at the Anthony Walker Foundation today. So what we did as a museum when we opened in 2007, we were going to use some footage of a press conference where members of the family were talking about Anthony's death. And we could have done that as a museum, you know, all the copyright issues, etc. But we just felt if we're doing this differently, we need to speak to the family. So we asked his mother, G Walker and his sister, Dominique Walker, if they'd come into the museum and we showed them the footage. And they were very happy with us doing that. And that relationship, which has been over 10 years now, has led to hundreds, if not thousands of people. In fact, thousands of people, particularly young people who have had sessions within the Anthony Walker Education Center. And if they don't know who was when they went in, they know who it was when he when they came out of that room. So it's very important that we're engaging with organizations like that. And the museum in Liverpool, along with our sister museum, the Museum of Liverpool, which is not very far from us. We're actually some of the only museums, if not the only museums in the country that a third party hate crime reporting centers. So if you're uneasy, sadly, you've been affected by a hate crime. And you might want to go to the police. You can come to places like the Citizens Advice Bureau, fire stations and to the museum. And that's not what people expect of museums. And I'm pleased to say that you don't often get people coming into the museum. You wouldn't want that. But it shows that we're there and we're engaged in a very difficult, local and national subject around hate crime. So we want to be relevant. And one of the things the museum has done recently, we've been engaged in a discussion with the Full City Council and the two individuals that you can see, marvellous individuals, Michelle Charters, Michelle Charters, who's the CEO of Cumbri Mani. It's a business and community centre in Liverpool. It's been established many, many years and it's got held in very high regard, does some excellent work. And the gentleman there is Andrew Lynch. Now, Andrew is the son of a gentleman called Eric Scott Lynch. And like Dorothy Cuey was one of the first people to ever develop a slavery history trail around the city as a historian, as an engaged individual, as a descendant of someone who'd been enslaved. How incredibly powerful is that? And finally, the city, maybe one would think that many of the street names in the city are named after people who were involved in the transatlantic slave trade would already have that information next to them. And that's not always the case. So 10 streets as a starting point have been earmarked for them to have more context towards why they are named streets like Faulton Square, Boll Street, which is one of the main streets in the city centre of Liverpool named after Jonas Boll, the slave trader that's an enormous list. So the museum is partnering with a family member, with Andrew and with people like Michelle to make sure that the city finally recognises some of those issues. You have to be part of these national narratives. And very few museums, if any museums have not been able to engage whether they wanted to or not within some of these recent issues. Now, I would say, as I often say to people, black lives matter, don't look at it as a moment. If you do, it means you don't realise it's part of a movement. Movements are constant. They're active. And there's many, many pioneers in the US and beyond from the civil rights movements who are active in campaign against challenging racial injustice. But we're in a period today where more museums and the sectors such realise that they can't be exempt from this discussion. So in National Museums Liverpool, where there are several museums, each of the museums has made a commitment to, how shall I say, to develop their content and to attempt to diversify their stories. And indeed, the people that work with the museums as a result of some of the horrific actions that have taken place. Now, National Museums Liverpool has ISF. We've existed since 2007. So we already have those discussions and dynamics that are ongoing. And one of the things I would say to people is if it's really hit home, how you need to be as a museum today involved in issues like this and to understand what it means, for instance, to be anti-racist. Let's see what the statements say in six months or another year's time. And people who've put panels up, let's see whether they've been taken down. This is part of the USP of ISM. It's what we do. You're getting a sense of that. But for those museums who reach new territory, what is your commitment going to be moving forward? And there's also an image there of, as many of you know, the plinth where the Colston Statue in Bristol was. And in fact, obviously it was thrown into the dock by campaigners and obviously advocating any type of criminal damage, etc. But the fact it happened and was were you pulling down history? Well, it was maybe contextualising how difficult a history that the Colston Statue brought to the fore. OK. And very recently, only the last few weeks, the Colston Statue has gone on display in Mshed in Bristol. Now, we as a museum were contacted very shortly after this. And they said, would you be interested in doing something with the Colston Statue? And my response was, first and foremost, this is a Bristol issue. And it's for Bristolians to get to grips with these dynamics. So I'm really pleased to say that it is actually now in Mshed. Well, one thing I did find out recently that there was a a group of individuals who actually didn't probably think it should be on display in the Mshed and they blocked all the spaces to actually even go and see it. And hopefully, though, that's that's come down now. But you have to be engaged in these types of subject matter. You have to listen to people. We're about to embark on a major capital project. And that capital project will grow the space and it will change the location of the International Slavery Museum currently on the third floor. But we're looking to grow into a building called the Dr. Martin Luther King Building, an iconic building on the Royal Albert Dock. Four times the size of the gallery space we've got now. So up from the basement to the third floor, we still don't have our own front door. So hopefully in the next few years, funding will allow and we'll be able to open a new building. And one of the things we will do in there is allow people not only to see themselves in there, but to have a voice, actually, not just to have a voice to actually be involved in the content. And this is one of the things for a museum professional, you're going to be willing to share the power to you're not going to be able to make all those decisions. And it's very hard to let go in that sense. So the first thing is you listen, what do people want from the museum? OK, and that's not always going to be positive feedback. We often call them their critical friends, people like Michelle. If Michelle wasn't engaging what we're doing, then we're doing something wrong. So I'm just kind of going to finish on on this. The MLK building you can see in the in the top right there. That's the actual building we're looking to redevelop. Well, this is just one of the consultation sessions that we actually have held over the last few years about what the people want for us when we move forward. I won't actually point out I am actually on one of those images. It's when I wear my glasses. I've not got them on today, so you probably won't be able to to spot who I am. Well, all I will say is this was done about two years ago. It was one of a sample of many of these that we've got. And yesterday I was at another event when two of the people on this picture were there having a chat with me about the next stage of the museum. And at that meeting, we had a lot of designers and architects who were looking to get involved in the expansion of the International Slave Museum and indeed get involved in a much bigger project, which is called the Waterfront Transformation Project. So it's many of our buildings around the slave in New Zealand as well and how they can be developed in the 10 year plan. But I assumed that the gateway to this. And one of the things I said to them and I will finish here now. It takes years, decades to build the trust for people to allow you to be the gatekeeper of their histories and to allow you to tell their stories, but equally to want to get involved. So they are willing to share their time as well. And I said over six months in a year, that will be difficult. If you're going to be working in a city like Liverpool, mean what you say, don't just do it because you think you have to do because otherwise you will be found out. I'm going to end there. No, thank you. Thanks so much, Richard. That was fantastic. Can I just take chair's privilege and ask a question to kick off with, which is when you're consulting on this wonderful plan for growing the museum, how do you how do you draw in the sort of people who don't usually contribute to those consultations? Yeah, it's a really, really good point. It's a challenge and you have to be open and honest. But one of the things that we do and do well, you often work with certain individuals and community organisations that they're part of. One thing I didn't mention is we have a group called the Respect Group. It's a community advisory body and it has members of local community groups, members of the city council, law enforcement, etc. And that's an open invitation to people to join. But you've got to kind of know about the museum to even show an interest, isn't it? And the Liverpool Dynamics, you know, changes. So traditionally, people often talk about Liverpool-like communities being the heart and soul of the black community. But you don't often hear people talk about newer black communities in the north end of the city, traditionally, the white working class part of the city, again, that related to what Adele's talk was about. So you've got to reach out. Now museums are in difficult positions. We don't all have outreach departments like we used to do. OK, so you use all the tools you've got, one of them being the social media, the digital, to make people know that you're there, that you actually exist. But what I would say is I don't want to actually be too prescriptive about how we go about that in the future. So we've got a car group of people we're working with. So we're actually having discussions, real time discussions about how we would do that. And if there are any pitfalls that may befall us when we do it. So we actually found out at the end of this month, if we have the go ahead green light to go to the next stage of the submission. And as part of that, there'll be a two year development stage where we're able to answer that question. Thanks, we're keeping our fingers crossed for you, Ed, this this month. There's a question here from Abigail saying, asking how you're revising and developing the content of the work on the street signs. Is that live, I think, is the question behind that? Absolutely. The first plaque will go up in the next few months. It's a number of local historians, particularly local black historians who have developed the text for that. It was a kind of a group decision about which street you look at. There was a horrendous amount of red tape to go through who owns the land, etc. You know, the Full City Council don't own all the land. So you've got to go all through this about developing relationships and saying to people, look, it's positive that the street that you're buildings on, people understand the context. Andrew Lynch, who I mentioned, the son of Eric Lynch, they're going to be called the Eric Lynch slavery plaques. So it's a nod to Eric's work. So ten of being earmarked, but this is a real time project. So over the next few years, I think we'll be working our way through many of the other streets. Great. And then quite a long question here from Catherine Harlow, putting your presentation together with Adele's. You asked what the International Music Slavery Museum and other heritage institutions do to help black and white Britons today understand the history of empire and enslavement as something that does entangle and intertwine us all across racial and class divides. She's saying she's presented this from someone who has Irish ancestry, as well as African, Caribbean diaspora background, which is which is very much a Liverpool story. Yeah, lots of people and friends who are exactly the same kind of heritage. You know, it's Irish and it's a mixture of Caribbean or African Garnet, so that's a real, you know, it's a real Liverpool citizen kind of background, you know, to have the museum, even though we make many subjective decisions as I talked about is there to bring people together. It's about moving forward to be positive, working with people like the Antony Walker Foundation. You know, you're not preaching revenge or hate. You've been educational and telling people why what they did was wrong. And these are the moves that the city, our enforcement, individuals need to take to change that. I often put the emphasis as well. Museums are important because we're platforms and we are funded nationally like we are to educate people on this subject, whilst at the same time being very realistic and realising that you are part of the activism, not just kind of detached from it. But it's again, you have to get people in your space. So I would always say this is not about castigating, particularly, you know, the white working class from the North. And it's really important that you get them to come to the museum and to engage with people. Don't be frightened. Ask questions. I know we're in a polarised society, black and white, you know, people, it's good or bad. Or if you don't kind of have the St George's flag from your house, you're not you know, you don't believe in the country and all that kind of rubbish. But that's the kind of real time discussions we're having, isn't it? So we have a part to play to make people realise the background to that. Why people think like that and what we can do to change it. And I've got a very topical one from Jane Gall here here. How are you responding to government pressure to uphold particular views of history? Well, that's very relevant, isn't it? Got to be careful what I say. ISM was always, you may not believe this, had a great degree of autonomy. And I think it's because we have such a high profile. And, you know, we're working with people who cities and individual communities and who have benefited from the work we do. So why change something, why break it when it works? So I have not, I understand it's a big discussion, but it's not, I don't feel any pressure exited on me and the team on a daily basis. OK, I'm not saying that's not the case with my colleagues in other museums, but ISM is pretty much doing what we want to do. And one final question here from Fraser Brown, asking about synergies with the Lancaster Maritime Museum, a city where the similar situation exists. Yeah, and there's obviously one of the very few memorials to enslaved Africans is in Lancaster. And actually, Liverpool doesn't even have a memorial yet to enslaved Africans. Really good point. So we may be changing the street plaques of adding information to them. So, yes, Lancaster, places like Cochamal, Whitehaven, I'm just the big cities are involved in this. I would say it's about not being scared and worried to kind of come and work with us. Sometimes maybe there's a feeling of that, like if you raise your head above the water too much, it can bring you a lot of pressure. So no, we're about making partnerships. I know a lot of people in Lancaster, people like Professor Alan Rice from Newplan. So there are discussions ongoing, but anyone here today, is anyone or any organization that wants to touch base with me, you know, Martin and Daniel, I love my details. Right, thank you so much. That was really, really inspiring to see what can be done, what you are doing. And we do wish you the very best in your decision for the next couple of weeks. And I hope that you move on to bigger premises.