 Shall we start? Yoko, shall we start? Sure. Okay, so good evening from Japan. Thank you very much for joining the Future Shapers session entitled Inclusive Innovation for the New Normal in the Vision of Young Researchers. I'm Kazuyoshi Nishijima, a member of the Science Council of Japan and an Associate Professor in Disaster Prevention Research Institute, Fiora University. Hello, I'm Yoko Shinpuku, a former Global Young Academy Executive Committee, a former Vice Chair of the Young Academy of Japan, and a professor in Global Health Nursing in Hiroshima University. And I'm moderating this session with Dr. Nishijima. This session is a panel discussion by Future Shapers to figure out what science and technology can do to realize inclusive innovation for the new normal based on the three keywords, evidence, decision, and action. The theme of the discussion is what are we willing to do with the future of science and technology as Future Shapers. Today's panelists are the following. First, our important guest, Ministry Orderly Tom, the Digital Minister of Taiwan. And Dr. Nova Ahamed from Bangladesh. Dr. Pauline Calmona Mola from USA. Dr. Yasuhiro Kondo from Japan. Dr. Roberto Lepeniz from Germany. Dr. Felix Moronta Barrios from Italy. Dr. Yumiko Nakajima from Japan. Dr. Hiroko Tokoro from Japan. And Mr. Takeo Tsukamoto from Japan. We expect your active contribution to the discussion, and we hope the panel discussion is useful for both the panelists and the audience. Now, let us immediately start the first part of the session with a speech by Ministry Orderly Tom. Please start. The screen is yours. Good time, everyone. It's my audio and video coming through. I see the caption, so it must be a yes. Really happy to be here virtually to talk about how we can enable digital social innovation for fast evidence-making, for fair decision-making, and also fun action-making. Now, COVID-19 has stressed test democracies across the world, and the result varies. Many democracies, including those in our region, have been revealed as being flawed in this way or another when grasping between the trade-off post inherently by managing the pandemic and the infodemic and the lure of going toward takedowns or lockdowns. But it is really surprising, though, given that we have done so little to modernize these institutions that stretch back to ancient Athens. Taiwan, I'm glad to report, has shown how we can strengthen and deepen democracy across our region with citizen engagement and to ensure that democracies continue to flourish and decision-making is not limited to just everyone uploading three bits every four years called voting. We need to re-empower our populations and make our institutions fit for the world in which we live in. Now, Taiwan's transformation to a digital democracy took place within a generation. Since the Second World War, my country has made itself a relatively simple agricultural society with power, decision-making power concentrated in the hands of a few in the ruling party to today, where a state characterized by social, cultural, and political pluralism. And one of the key impacts from the technology sector is the World Wide Web. The popularization of the web technology in 1996 is right around the time when we had our first direct presidential election. So the internet in Taiwan and democracy evolved and spread in tandem. In 2014, there was a definitive moment in Taiwan's democratic invigoration, the birth of the sunflower movement. Half a million people took to the street to demonstrate against the cross-strait service trade agreement, an opaque trade deal with Beijing, and many more people support them as online. But the movement fanned out not as a demonstration for protest, but demonstration for demo. It's about demoing how people empowered with civic technologies and gather the evidence together, make decisions together, and take collective action. And in the first few days, rumor and misinformation naturally spread about what was occurring inside the besieged parliament, and to ensure openness and transparency I was there to help set up a system of communication, as were many from the decentralized G0V or GovZero community, a group of civic technologists. The occupied area and surrounding streets were connected in a local network. Projectors were set up outside the parliament, show what was happening in the real time to everyone watching online. So it ended a little more than three weeks later in Occupy, after the entire government and the civil servants promised greater legislative oversight and also endorsed the successful public demonstration of a new version of governance, of people gathering the evidence together and the state amplifying these evidences and then take actions along with the private sector. And I call this the people-public-private partnership. Of course, I look forward to have more exchanges in the panel, including how we enable these partnerships through the annual presidential hackathon and the digital public infrastructure built from such hackathons, including the air pollution map for climate science and so on, eventually evolved into the mass curation map, the SMS-based checking method, that shortened our contact tracing from 24 hours to 24 minutes, which enabled us to counter the pandemic with no lockdown and infodemic, with no takedowns. But I want to first outline the basic principles of us working with the people, for the people, and take collective action through collective intelligence. So that was it, because I was told that my remark need to be short at the beginning. Okay, thank you very much, Ministry Tan for important and suggestive speech. Now, we would like to start a panel discussion. And let me explain how to do the panel discussion. Dear panelists, please first switch on your camera if you don't. And when you wish to say something, please raise your hand in a way that I can see it on WebEx screen. Then I will appoint who to speak. In your first talk, please introduce yourself to Ministry Tan, as well as to the audience. Please also stand by interpretex. And for simultaneous translation, please speak slowly. Also, please note that mute your microphone when you don't speak. Okay, so who want to open the discussion? Yes, Nova, please. I am, hello, I'm Nova Ahmed from Bangladesh. I was a former executive committee member of Global Young Academy, and I'm a founding member of National Young Academy in Bangladesh. I'm a computer scientist, and I send my salam to you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Any questions? Oh, everybody is so excited that you hesitate to start the discussion. Oh, okay. Yasuhisa, please. I'm a associate professor at the Research Institute for Humanity and Nature, Kyoto, Japan. And also I'm a member of the Young Academy of Japan. So I am a researcher, and my interest is civic technology. So just, Minister Tan, you explained that emphasize the importance of it in governance. So I have a question. Yeah, as well as in Taiwan, in Japan also, there is an increasing number of civic technologies tackling local issues with government and other sectors. However, sometimes a civic technologist is a really technology oriented. They are geek or otaku. So they like technology and they may find a great fun in working with local people. However, sometimes they are much too much technology oriented, and sometimes they overlook the voice of local people, especially for marginalized people, like low income people, and also children, other people, they have a divide, digital divide people. So I'm asking you, Minister Tan, how can we be inclusive with this kind of marginalized people? If you have any insight, please share with us. Thank you. That's an excellent question. Do I answer straight away? Okay. I think one of the most powerful idea that I have encountered is to empower people closest to the pain, to the suffering. So rather than asking anyone to adapt to civic technology, civic technologists must see ourselves inherently as the tool makers and the tools we're not perfect in designing those tools. We just need to be good enough. That is to say, make sure that the senior people, the elderly, people with low income in rural areas, indigenous nations, and so on, can remix and make full use of the technology as they see fit. I'll use an example. For example, when we designed the SMS-based check-in method so that people can, without downloading any app, just scan a QR code and hit send, and that's it, because it sends to a toll-free number 1922. So it takes like literally two seconds to complete a check-in with no app installed. But the first thing we did was to make sure that people who don't have a smartphone is also part of the design process. We specifically designed that these people using feature phones, or if they don't know how to use a camera, can type in the 15-digit code of the location code posted near the QR code on the same poster and text that to a trusted number 1922 and completing the same check-in. And even for people who don't have a phone at all, we said the people queuing before or after them or the family can make sure that they just have a plus two, plus three, making sure that they take the charge, the responsibility of informing these people when the contact trace informs them so they don't have to check in themselves. And the rural places, even the indigenous nations, sometimes they have these seals, things that are ink applied to paper like a name card stuff. So even people with seeing difficulties, they're not compelled to use a scanning base, which is fundamentally not friendly to people with seeing difficulties, but rather they can just hand out slips with their contact number to the venue and store it instead to the telecom store instead in the venue. So the idea to heuristic is that first, we never invent new data collection point that didn't exist before the pandemic. So people don't have to trust someone they didn't use to trust. And second, we always make sure that we design such processes without mandating any top down one and only way to do it anytime anyone innovates socially to improve on our approach. We definitely say, yeah, that's a better idea than what we originally determined. And that requires a commitment to open standard and also to daily every 2pm press conference response, a shortened iteration cycle on governance and feedback. Thank you very much. I understand that the mixed good mixture of a high and low technologies are very important to make a more inclusive innovation. Thank you very much. Yes, it's an old idea called appropriate technology. Yes. Everyone. Hello, Minister. It was a pleasure to hear that as a scientist, I'm Paulina Carmona more biochemist and research scientists at the University of California Davis in the United States. My question comes from a science point of view, but first I want to say how empowering was to hear that the people is involved in the decision making process. Through the hackathons that you mentioned, it's like, I think it's a very empowering system and builds trust in people in the government. I'm thinking how to start from the start. How to as a scientist, how can a scientist like me, for example, can approach a minister with their science to explain the importance of their science in the society, what would be the impact of their discoveries in the society. So how can we start the process do you separate people from scientists in your concept of governing with people. This is an excellent question in Taiwan when we teach science, including data science climate science and so on in primary and middle school. We emphasize on competence, not just literacy. It's different. Those two concepts to teach media literacy data literacy digital literacy is to make sure that the students understand the science. But to teach competence means that they must become contributors to science and only when contributing to science can students learn about the rigor that is associated with scientific research. For example, most of our climate sensing of the weather stations. It used to be monopolized by large machines in the environmental protection agency, and it's associates naturally, but because people worry about PM 2.5, which is a new health hazard. So they start a civic movement called the air box movement so that all the primary schools, tens of thousands of them measure the PM 2.5 as part of their teaching of natural sciences as young as the primary school. Now, these ideas, the data stewardship data bias distributed ledger and so on are very difficult to teach, but they are very natural to learn. Once you become a data controller and contributes to this decentralized computing network, and also by empowering the student so that every one of them have access to the machine learning clusters to tweak their algorithms through simple interface like scratch. They become contributors to environmental science, just as the media competence classes teach them to fact check the three presidential candidates in real time during their debate and platform and so on. So they become media contributors and fact checkers to and by taking an active stance in the learning process. They learn the idea of science as something that we do together, rather than something you read from the textbooks. And I believe only by combining such basic education and lifelong education on competence to or solving common social environmental challenges. Can scientists be seen as a approachable kind of community tribe member rather than someone who writes our textbooks. Thank you so much. That was very insightful. Yes, Roberto. I think you're a mute robot. Mute it somehow. Roberto, maybe you mute it. I cannot hear you. Somehow your voice doesn't come through. Maybe you can type your questions perhaps. Yeah. We're all multimedia, multimodal. Okay. Well, maybe no one's fast enough. No, but did you raise your hand. And I wrote the question on the chat. So you fast and then next Felix, and then. Okay, my one actually was related to the first question. So, I would like to hear, I mean, because we were talking about digital divide, I think some of it is answered, but again, coming from a developing country, this comes frequently to my mind, because technology makes a big barrier. So, when, when you were thinking about spreading technology to civil people, can technology turn away people? I mean, somebody wanted to join, but that person is probably feeling shaky. And because now technology dependency is increasing. Do you think the digital divide is also increasing because I mean, sometimes I feel in that way. Thank you very much. Thank you. I mean, some, some advice would make me feel good. Thank you. Thank you. As I mentioned, why people already trust this toll free number 1922. It's because since the pandemic begun last February, anyone can call toll free and speaks their to their hearts content about what their worries are about pandemic. Their suggestions, what have they have found in the ground, for example, last April, a young boy called this toll free number saying, you're rationing our mask, but all I got was pink mask and all the boys in my class have navy blue ones. I don't want to wear pink to school. And the very next day, all the medical offices were pink in the press conference and minister of health events. The pink panther was his childhood hero. So the boy became the hippest boy in his class for only he has the color that the heroes where and and I believe these are the inclusive appropriate technologies. Literally, a toll free number and we don't apply. For example, voice recognition on the voice recording. If they're dialing to people from the largest charities in Taiwan, the most professional call centers and so on who listen with empathy, their stories and so on, of course, escalating their ideas and making sure there's a common thread of frequently asked questions. So these are the support technologies, but these technologies are there to connect people to people. It's not to replace anyone from a people to people connection that is to say they are assistive rather than authoritarian. I believe we need to develop not machine learning, but collaborative learning that is to say learning apparatus is that always joins more people together, rather than excluding people away and we can do this by asking this very simple question. Does this leave anyone behind by introducing this touch point this technological invention. You so. Yes. Thank you. Can you hear me. Yes. Okay, that's great. Good morning. Good evening, everyone. It's an honor to share the screen with minister. And all the panelists, of course. I am Felix, I am talking to you from Italy from the International Center for genetic engineering and biotechnology. Here I am a program specialist in regular regulatory sign and by your face. And my question is, I mean, the, the genetic resources are not being anymore to sample or to the physical especially this is because the revolution in genetics and sequencing technologies, the questions of DNA and so on. So, I'd like to know the entire one, how are you dealing with the digitalization of life of the life information, the sharing of genetic data. Particularly from the point of view of the biodiversity, because I know that from humans is different. But what about the digitalization of the biodiversity and your genetic resources. Yeah, this is a very important question and assuming I heard you correctly. The question was about how do we manage the governance for the digitalization of our personal health records, including our DNA and other genetic material and the kind of precision use of it in a way that still is democratic or accessible. Is that the question. And including also the digitalization of biodiversity, I mean, land, animal, microbial. Right is, I think it's a great question. Indeed, in Taiwan, we have this concept of the national healthcare system and associated bio bank system where people can voluntarily contribute to research and join data coalitions. That activates certain researchers through their voluntary dedication, which they can of course withdraw from any particular projects. They're not comfortable with enjoying only the ones that fully informs them and so on. I believe this is a internationally recognized way of doing such things. Well, I think we do a step forward even by making sure that these data must be used only in a way that is empowering the individuals. That is to say, either through personalized medicine that you authorize only the trusted partners inside your data coalition to use your data instead of blank authorizing any particular centralized info bank or data holder to make all your decisions for you that decisions are made in a way that is democratic and people. So, I think more than one quarter, I think maybe a third now have this personal national health insurance express application that manages such consent and such participation and it ranges from, for example, dedicating the uncollected mask quota to international humanitarian aid in exchange for your name coined into a NFT like recognition. That's also one of the data coalitions. So it doesn't always have to be genetic. It's just a act of joining together the data that we personally care and care as a community. And has a high level of trust because by law, there must be no unauthorized commercial uses of any of such data is part of the national obligation. It's mandatory health insurance and therefore, of course, people has the highest privacy and cybersecurity expectation of it. And I look forward for this model to extend towards the biodiversity in many presidential hackathon cases where already looking at people's coexistence with the local plants with the trees and the local biome of forestry and so on and people committing to maintaining them together to our environmental benefits by having a kind of simulated group dialogue and group decision making with what they call patch by planting making patches by planting by talking to such simulated ecosystems. So it's extending this data collision a little bit by introducing synthesized avatars and so on as part of the decision making because at the moment forests don't vote. And this is our kind of approximation of a voting forest. But in the future, I believe democracy itself will be upgraded to include more of the biodiversity and also future generations is a very large seminar topic so I answer in very large brushes. Thank you. And now Roberto made a comment on the chart, but maybe Roberto you can try to speak once again. Unfortunately. Okay, we see your question. Yeah. So it's about institutionalization of the hackathons. So our hackathons. They are three months to four months long. So it's a real marathon like very extended amount of time and the proof of concepts five teams each year. We received a trophy from the president and a trophy shape of Taiwan is a micro projector underneath which you if you turn on it projects. Dr. time handing you the trophy. So it's very main time describes itself. And what it symbolizes is that the president takes your idea, whatever you did in the past three months and commit to it as a presidential promise like a platform for the next 12 months. So we commit ourselves to utilize whatever budget personnel or even legal amendments to make those ideas happen. And the reason why the president can make such a firm commitment is because all the winning cases need to be quadratic voted meaning we use a new voting method to maximize the synergy of the ideas and the projects. A key output must always correspond to one or more of the global goals of the SDGs. The 169 specific targets. So with the popular legitimacy and the global goal as its benefits. It can do no wrong. Right. It's just about setting priority. It's not about whether we should do this or not. And so whatever solutions they develop win the support across the sectors, including the public servants, the private sector and the civil society activists. All three sectors must join in order for a team to win to be eligible for the five presidential hackathon trophies and we have a national regulation that regulates this. So in many senses we learn from, say the prototype fund from Germany and many other similar designs around the world. But the main difference is that's because we prove there's democratic legitimacy plus global goals, which we all of course commit already to realize that makes it favorable for the president to say, okay, whatever the top 15. Thus, it's presidential platform and all of it can be tracked at a presidential hackathon website. Thank you very much on behalf of Roberto. Um, May I ask one question. Well, no one mentioned digital divide, which is an divide between the people who have an access to the technology and who don't. I also see the problem exist in the cyber cybernetic space that are disconnected or divided groups and those divisions created by wrong information or information that scientifically can not be approved, or sometimes information we cannot judge. So my question is how a scientist that can help connect those divided group existed in the cybernet because in the cybernet, cybernetic space is information flows very fast compared to the physical world. So how are the scientists can help these cybernetworks to direct in the right direction. Yes, this is fundamentally about vaccinating the mind, right? Because conspiracy theories and this information in for them in general are like virus of the mind. Once people get into a conspiratorial mindset. Then they turn whatever energy of outrage that could have been used to further social movement, but conspiracy theory mindset turns those outrage into negative energy for discrimination for revenge and further polarization. So it's a vicious cycle and this part and a virtual cycle channeling outrage into social progress. So it's about making sure that we established together a pro social social media. And in Taiwan, for example, the place when Dr Lee Wenliang surfaced that there were seven SARS cases in the one and seafood market that was the last day of 2019 when that news spread to Taiwan. But we didn't discover it through the more anti social corner of social media, say Facebook and so on, but we discovered that in the PTT. PTT is sometimes said to be Taiwan's Reddit, but it's not because it's a scientific endeavor. It's a national Taiwan University computer science department project that has been running for 25 years with zero advertisement and zero shareholders is firmly in the academic sector. And the PTT is open sourced collaboratively governed and they develop a lot of ways for people to express their collective intelligence strictly in a pro social manner. So when Dr Lee Wenliang whistle blowing spread to PTT experts from all different areas triaged that message and found it's probably true, which led to the very next day we start health inspections for all five passengers coming in from Wuhan to Taiwan. That is to say it reached the top of the scientific decision makers in the government in this PTT and that's because after 25 years working together in a pro social public infrastructure, we come to trust each other when we divulge such analysis in a real time so that these clarifications almost working like vaccination of the mind people will have participated in those quick but deliberative conversations. They become immune to the conspiracy theories that followed almost directly afterward that has spread to the entire world about the virus. So long story short, I believe only when we design with intention the spaces of our interactions such that we can very quickly surface the common values out of very different seeming positions. Can we come together and say, okay, there's a lot of debate last year about the mask use and efficiency of mask, but very quickly the pro social social media told us nobody dispute that mask idea to protect yourself from your own unwashed hand. Nobody dispute that. And because we were able to discover that very quickly. So all our communication material, including the very cute dog that she buy you knew with the name zong chai that put their foot to their mouth and so on. It reached pretty much everybody and then that firmly establish a humor over rumor public atmosphere so that people when engaged with conspiracy theory, laugh about it, laugh the tension off and then are in the mindset of doing some science. Thank you. Thank you very much. Any other questions. In relation to what you have said, it's about communication. I think now, as a scientist, we value reasoning or objectivity or data and those things. But to communicate with general citizen or other stakeholders. As you said, it's important to think about feelings or culture or values or sensibility those kind of a soft part of human beings. How do you think about the soft kind of human being and also how we can like harmonize this reasoning part of scientists and human side of science. Thank you. It's a very important question. Indeed, when we think about science and technology, maybe because Taiwan used to be a hardware focused economy. In Taiwan, when we say science and technology people immediately think of the natural sciences like physics and apply technology to the industry like semiconductors. That becomes the reference case of science and technology in Taiwan, but as my role is that of social innovation. I keep reminding people that social science is also science and social technology. Technology, including democracy itself is also technology because like nonviolent communication dynamic facilitation, people don't usually refer to them as technology. Well, except open space technology, which causes self technology, but all these are important technologies that make the human side of a community shine forth so that we can have the rough consensus. We work on the running code. Indeed, the native culture that I come from the internet engineering task force culture emphasize coming together to show the rough consensus and then work on the running code, not the other way around. So it means that settling on something we can all live with. It doesn't need to be perfect. Something we can live with that is the most important thing. And so I want to go back to the pro social social media. For example, when we set up public consultations online, we deliberately have the supporting arguments and contradicting arguments in two different. Up vote and down vote columns, but they never reply to one another. And this very simple design took away any polarization because there's no way to call each other by name or start a flam wall, but you can very quickly see the best arguments just surface on the top of the cream of the crop of the two columns. And that is how we then address them to say, Oh, it looks like they are polarized, but it's actually not. We all care about the same thing together. And this is our design on the public petition website, our public consultation website. They all follow this idea of taking away the space for mischaracterizing each other and putting into its dynamic facility data and moderators space by assisting human moderators, not taking them away into automated moderation. Thank you very much social innovation as technologies are very kind of encouraging message for us. Thank you. Thank you. Any more, any other questions. Maybe Nakajima. Yeah. Yes, please. Thank you very much. Umiko Nakajima from Japan, a member of GYA and also a team render team leader of the National Institute in Japan. So, my question is really related to the previous one, and then I already might have the answer. But they, they're using a SNS or other digital media, then we can pick up the various amount of ideas from the people, which is very impressive for me. But I discussed already the, to pick up the really important idea from the vast amount of the idea is might be very difficult, especially if you need to be sponsored within 24 hours or something. Can we overcome this program or challenge using the technologies or any calculation system? Definitely. Yes. So, I'm showing a screen of a real consultation that I mentioned online. It's part of the Polish, the GOV, the TW system, which is free software that we've used since 2015 and AI here means assistive intelligence. It assists the human facilitation and moderation. In 2015, we presented the facts about Uber X about a so-called right sharing. Some people say it's geek economy. Some people say it's platform economy. Some people says sharing economy, but it's all very complex and people felt very differently about it. So, what you see here is actually the actual image of the feelings of my friends and families and everyone on the social media. When we talk thousands of people on the Uber X matter, we will go on to talk about many other matter, but this was the first. And the way it works is that you see one sentiment from your fellow citizen on the Polish interface. For example, here I say, I think that passenger liability insurance should be mandatory regardless of whether the driver is legal, the passenger needs to be insured. Now, you may agree, if you click agree, you move toward me. If you click disagree, you move farther away from me. But as I mentioned, there is no reply button. So there's no room for troll to grow. And the automated clustering came in clustering is calculated by each person proposing their sentiments for other people to respond. So it's not a traditional survey where the designer of the survey dominates the friend setting. This is a weak key survey where everybody can add new dimensions to this multi-dimensional space and the X and Y axis are determined by principle component analysis. Again, the data is open so people can very quickly verify that the system is working as intended. So this is assistive intelligence, but not deep learning. This is intentionally not deep because people must be able to easily calculate and verify that it is doing justice to their sentiments. And every time we run such conversations, we find this picture, which if you have one image to take home of this conversation wanted to be this one is a shape of democracy. Indeed, people agree to disagree on a few ideological things like sharing economy versus geek economy, but actually most people agree with most of their neighbors on most of the things, most of the time. It was just those five things dominates the mainstream media and anti-social corner of social media. But once we have a truly pro-social space where people can reflect on each other's feelings, just like a physical town hall, a physical public library, a physical academic campus. We bring the digital counterpart like Polish do it. Then people reflect and realize, oh, we all care about insurance, about not undercutting existing meters, about empowering local church and temples to set up Uber like. Right-sharing fleets and so on. And that's exactly what we legislated the very next year solving the Uber problem once and for all. So Uber is a legal taxi in Taiwan for quite some time now. So I believe this is one of the potential innovations in digital democracies that lifts us out of this. The simple agent dilemma, the thing about the representatives, of course, not being able to understand all the aspects of their constituents. So instead of representing them, we need to have such space that represents them. That's proposed those initially minority ideas and then have a way to reflect on each other and come to something that we all can live with. And this all about interaction design in other corner of anti-social social media. You probably see the flip of this picture. Thank you. That conclusion always much the government policy. Yes, of course. Really. That's amazing and interesting. Thank you very much. Yes, Carol Mona. And now that we have been talking about the democracy process, the decision-making process, I would like to know, for example, as a scientist, what would you expect in your interactions with scientists in this decision-making process? In other words, how do you envision this rapport with scientists and feel free to throw any tips to us scientists that we want to know how can we bridge this gap between the decision-making process and the discoveries that we generate? Yeah, I believe that it's not about a few scientists in the society and everybody else. I believe this is more like a letter of expertise, a very gentle slope where everyone and anyone can find someone that's just a little bit more involved with the scientific community, but still speak in a language they can understand and each and every citizen can also go around and then teach people who are slightly more junior in any scientific endeavor so that whenever there's a new discovery about, for example, the alpha or delta or some new Greek variant of the COVID virus and we need to adjust our way to cope and adapt with it, then this reason why is translated very quickly across the slope rather than people being mystified why does the rule have changed again from the top? So I believe that the decision-makers need first to be themselves, scientists, talent benefits during the pandemic by having both of our vice presidents in the past two years being public health experts and indeed the first vice president on the first year of pandemic, Chen Jianren literally wrote the epidemiology textbook, so the authority, the scientific authority on epidemiology, so when he want to talk to the president, he just goes next door and I believe this very good relationship made sure that we all focus on helping the vice president, the ministry of health and welfare, the vice premier at a time which was a student of the vice president to make popular online courses that teaches basic epidemiology, developing computer games that simulates lockdowns versus pervasive mask use, develop cute memes, the dog memes that I just mentioned and so on. And so that means that everyone has something to do and by supporting them to produce such memes and interactive applications and so on. I myself learned about epidemiology very quickly and swiftly by just working on the physical distancing posture when you're indoor, keep three shibas away, outdoor, keep two of those away. And this one of course is about not putting hand in your mouth and mask prevents you from doing that and so on. And all those communication efforts make sure that people feel, oh, I can also remix a little bit and introduce the signs to my community. Thank you so much. Thank you for sharing your, your vision of these. Thank you. Yes. Mr. Excuse me, please. I'm new to your microphone. Please speak slowly. Yes. My name is Takio. Cabinet office of Japan. I'm sorry, I make my talk with Japanese. I'm sorry. Yes, so everybody please switch on your interpreter text and then you will be able to translate it. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes, thank you. It's a really important question, right? It's whether we can turn the social innovation somehow also into business and industrial innovations and have them play well together so it may lead to new models of economy. If I understand your question, right? I think the main idea, indeed, the presidential size campaign promise of a circular economy is like the Japanese Society 5.0. It's about making the economy work in such a way that prosper not just this but future generations and the main theoretical point was that it's very difficult to account to seven generations down the line. It's very difficult to make long-term predictions of our decisions and so on. In specific areas such as climate modeling, of course, the scientists have made tremendous progress to actually visualize and make real the popular imagination of the worst case and the best case and somehow find the scientific evidence to let us know that we don't have to scare ourselves but yet we have to take actions now. So I think climate, epidemic, and counter disinformation, these are the areas that of global urgency and therefore we see the new business models on circular economy hardening the cybersecurity and designing new zero trust distributed network. And this is, of course, a large industry now with 5G and Internet of Things and Beings cybersecurity. And we also see new business models that sprung out of the data coalitions that I just mentioned. For example, in Taiwan, the National Health Insurance, thanks to the data coalitions and the voluntary participation, were able to do precision modeling not just on the interventions of medicine but also preventative health care and indeed something that might be called precision public health, that is to say making sure that we can discover new products and services that integrate into the insurance plans and so on to make sure that people who are more well informed of their health and their habits impact on their community's health can make more healthy decisions and that itself, of course, is an industry. But we must always keep in mind that it's only valuable if it's also valuable to the least technologically advanced person interacting with the technology. Otherwise, it's very exploitative, it's essentially faking the consent. So by making sure that we focus on the privacy enhancing technologies, the latest ones such as federated learning, homomorphic encryption and so on, I believe this will create new economic opportunities once we understand the bad old days of blindly aggregating personal data and so on actually creates similar to, I don't know, smoking tobacco or some other environmental harm actually creates a huge social negative externality and once people collective realize that, then whatever new innovations that like carbon capturing but for the privacy equivalent can be made then into a new business, new economic model similar to what we have already seen circular economy, clean energy and such. Thank you very much. Time is coming. Four minutes left. Hiroko, do you have any question? It's Hiroko Tokoro from the University of Tsukuba. My main field is material science and medical chemistry and I am very impressed with the use of Taiwan's cutting-edge technology for IT digital such like that. I am interested in what does the Taiwanese government think about the co-existence of so-called cutting-edge technologies such as IT and the digital with the classical basic science for example mathematics physics and chemistry because the source of human being is limited and the source of scientific budget is limited so I want to listen to the government thinking. Definitely we are committed to I believe we have another year of the highest ever increase of the budget on the fundamental and basic science and technology research but I also want to talk about the popular idea of these investments striving for faster, higher and stronger technology. The most advanced facilities and services will naturally produce so-called high-tech unicorns. I believe that is a very kind of narrow linear thinking. I believe once we work on the cutting-edge research by making the unknown into the known like the Olympic spirit right this year is not just about faster, higher, stronger it's about together that is to say to have the entire society understand the fundamental science principles among the basic social and environmental challenges that we are facing together and so even when the Japanese people call me the IT minister I always said that IT only connects machines and digital connects people and I believe it's not a zero something of course we need to have the fundamentals otherwise we can't connect people if the internet is not a human right which it is in Taiwan. broadband is a human right but we must think in terms not just about broadband as a human right we must think about how democracy expresses itself through broadband once we have higher bit rates how to do collective decision making once we connect the internet of things together how to make it an internet of beings once we have the latest virtual reality gears how to make it a shared not a solo reality I already talked about how we turn machine learning into collaborative learning and equally important from user experience into human experience so a lot of my work is just to ensure that whenever people say hey the singularity is near on this field or another I keep reminding everyone that the plurality is here. okay thank you very much we have very little time left but before we close this first part of the session I would like to ask you ministry Audrey one thing well we all want we all are scientists and we are in academia but we also want to contribute to the decision process in the society how we scientists can contribute or in what way we should contribute to the decision process in the society yeah I would encourage you to increase the r-value the basic transmission rate of your research make the idea with spreading spread make it viral and even if it's not your particular hobby right to to make memes like the ones that I just introduced to you find someone who is slightly less senior slightly less trained in your field but still interested in learning from you as a byproduct of learning from you ask them to publish what they have learned in any art form whatsoever but they will then in turn affect more people affect more people and so on for example through the popular medium of fiction my first exposure to harry potter is not the canon of harry potter books but rather the harry potter and the rational method which is a fan fiction of harry potter written with science in mind and I believe this is a great crossover of decision theory or whatever artificial intelligence research that's cutting edge at a time with harry potter and I look specifically for the communities like this when I want to spread the newest ideas that I run across okay thank you for a very encouraging and warm message to to us but also to all the young scientists well thank you ministry town thank you very much for your valuable input for future shapers and also a panelist thank you very much for your active participation to the panel discussion um now we go to the second half of the session thank you ministry thank you thank you very good question thank you live long and prospering bye