 El Refai raises a lamb over elements in Aso Villa sabotaging APC's chances in the elections as Bola Med Tunibu claims lingering fuel scarcity and the redesigning of the Naira were targeted against him. And INAG predicts fuel scarcity may affect logistics come 2023 elections. This is Plus Politics. I am Mary Anaconda. Governor Nasser El Refai of Kaduna State has said that some elements in the presidency were working assiduously to ensure the failure of the all-progressive Congress APC in this month's presidential election. Now he also said the same forces were responsible for the current crisis created by the petrol subsidy which is making the country waste over six trillion Naira annually. And also Bola Tunibu has made claims that some powers in the administration of Bohari were working to ensure he does not win the exercise, noting that they were behind the lingering fuel scarcity and the redesigning of the higher denominations of the Naira. Now the presidential candidates of the People's Democratic Party PDP Atikwa Buboka had earlier advised the Central Bank of Nigeria against further extension of the deadline for the exchange of the old Naira notes after the expiration of the Apex Bank's 10th February deadline. He warned that another extension of the grace period will destroy the purpose and objective of the currency redesign. Well joining us to discuss this and more is Alfonso's Ebahi is the all-progressive Congress Chairman in Cross River State and also joining us is Anoja Ilemonahi is the head new media department of the People's Democratic Party Presidential Campaign Council. Thank you so much gentlemen for joining us and good evening. Good evening great. I'm going to start with you Mr Chairman because this is your party and it sounds really incredible for some for the want of a better way to describe it a bit preposterous if the APC seems to be accusing the APC of sabotaging the APC. Why do you think that the APC is suspecting people in the presidency people who are supposedly they're supposed to take over from of trying to sabotage the elections to what end Mr Ebahi I think you need to unmute yourself so that we can hear you. Mr Ebahi I don't think we can hear you. Can you hear me? Yes we can now go ahead. Governor Nassir El Rufa is not a careless talker but let me take you on a bit historic historical perspective to what appears to be a reiteratment of what Governor El Rufa has said today. You will recall that the national economic council met sometime last year and came up with a suggestion and almost agreed that the issue of swell subsidy is no longer sustainable. It was thought and agreed that the landing cost of PMS in particular was around 300 Naira or there about and therefore it was better to put an end to this escalating cost of payment of subsidy. Today kerosene diesel is no longer subsidized but Nigerians have got to live with it. The entire agreement has been that we're just subsidizing the rich at the expense of the poor. It will be better for swell subsidy to go. That was agreed. Implementation became a problem. So all Governor El Rufa I have said today is that a position that was taken by the national economic council why did Mr President go against this position that would have been better. To him it was postponing the evil day and that evil day is worse now that we have few days to election and the worst kind of petro scarcity never experienced in this country is what we are facing now that you will buy fuel in my own place in Calabar we are buying for about 420 Naira my family went to Delta a few days ago they bought for 500 and something wouldn't have been better if we were buying fuel for 300 to 350 and will not queue and subsidize and it was all he said. I'm curious as to why the APC is asking the APC this question is interesting because Mr President was one of the people who were in the forefront of the Occupy Nigeria and you remember I'm sure vividly why Mr President El Rufa and the likes of them were in the forefront of that particular march what was it about if you do remember. I recall that in 2012 during that attempt to remove West subsidy and I think subsidy cost then was put at about 800 billion to about 1.2 trillion and it was thought that it was a fraud one expected when Mr President came in and being a man of integrity that is respected by all and after seeing what we call fraud and after establishing that it could go there would have been no need delay the removal of subsidy I agree totally that if there is anything that ought to go is the issue of subsidy so that the 8 to 10 trillion today that has been paid as subsidy can be put into other developmental projects I am happy that almost all presidential candidates have said subsidy must go so El Rufa have not said anything wrong how does this removal of fuel subsidy um turn into a saboteur of sort or be be translated into sabotaging the campaign of Bola Med Tinupu yeah you know whatever APC that is the government in power does today it stands to rob on the minds and feelings of Nigerians who are going to be a lot to it so all that I governor Eric I have said is that those who advised Mr President against implementing this very all important fuel removal subsidy removal maybe doing what will put the masses of Nigeria against the government in power and it will not be good for us there is hardship is biting everybody you and myself inclusive I am not even happy I am not happy as a member of APC I am not happy as a Nigerian that I am made to go and queue and wait for several hours to buy four four four hundred and twenty Naira it is better than subsidy goals so that we buy it at the landing cost let me come to you Ilemana now a lot of people had been attacking the presidential candidate of the APC Bola Med Tinupu saying that he was attacking President Buhari over the new Naira issue and of course the fuels curse I'd like to quote him directly well the presidential candidate of the APC had denied attacking Mr President over fuel and new Naira I'll tell you what his media and publicity director for the campaign council had to say Mr Bayo Nanugai in a statement explained that the the opposition which is the PDP was walking in cahoots with fifth columnists who were the ones who were bent on inflicting avoidable pains on hapless Nigerians to avoid or rather to achieve a political plot he goes on to say that the PDP and Atikus camp are the ones that issued a knee-jacking response derailing from issues distorting his views at the Abel Kutarali to create a wedge between him and Mr President he said when the guilty are afraid of being uncovered they try to push back with red herring now I just said at the beginning of this show what your principle said in response to the Naira issue I'd like to hear from you Ilemana because they're saying that you are in cahoots your party is in cahoots with fifth columnists who are these people these people are a figment of the imagination of the people in the APC and in the camp of particularly those in the immediate camp of the APC presidential candidate Ashwajibola and Metin it don't exist what what we are seeing is finally from a selfish perspective they have gotten to feel the consequences of the consequences of bad governance the consequences of a myopic approach to governance that the Nigerian people have been compelled and forced to live with for the last several anybody who says that this fuel scarcity is only just now being designed to sabotage Ashwajibola is not saying the truth Nigeria has dealt with a fuel substance we have had a fuel subsidy means I say fuel subsidy sorry a fuel scarcity we've had a fuel scarcity since around December 2021 almost all of 2022 we're queuing for fuel we're suffering lack and all of that so anybody who says that this is new and only just design is only just being designed now to sabotage Ashwajibola is not saying the truth the passing is not a witness of truth Nigeria's and it shows the level of disconnect between the power brokers in the APC and Elemona I'm sorry we're having connection issues with you Elemona can you hear me we're having your next your your connection is breaking and we're not able to make up what I yes I'm sure you can but then we're having connection issues okay um let's let's hope that we can hear you clearly because for a second we couldn't hear you but go ahead I am saying that anybody who says now in 2020 in February 2023 that this fuel scarcity is designed to sabotage Ashwajibola meanwhile we have had this fuel scarcity since December 2021 and all of all of 2022 we've complained about when we complained about the short time for the implementation of the currency swap APC people told us to keep quiet members of the APC told us to keep quiet members of the APC said it was the best possible policy members of the APC lauded it now members of the APC are coming back to say that it was done to sabotage Ashwajibola all I have to say to them is welcome to the reality that the average Nigerian has had to live with for the last seven and a half years the reality of badly sorted policies the reality of bad governance that we've had to live with they've been disconnected from it and now because I think we're going to have to take you out and bring you back in because we're really having a distortion and we can't hear you we'll take you out and bring you back in all right let's do that let's go back to the chairman of the APC in Khrushchevistate during that L refined of you which I was able to see a bit of he did talk mostly about elements in the presidency elements in Ashwajibola who want to sabotage the presidency the presidential bid of Bola met Tinibu let's break it down when a party man says there are people in Ashwajibola that are trying to sabotage their own person it calls us for a lot of questions and concerns now mr president and the people who work in Ashwajibola or people who we consider as the presidency are the same people who sat on that day when your party's candidate emerged they didn't sabotage the candidate at the time but then a few days to election you're accusing these same people who somewhat were by you to make sure that your party man emerged these same people are the ones that you're accusing what does this say to the average person that you're asking him or you know whoever to vote or cast their votes for you when it looks like your house is not in order what does this say before I answer that question let me first make a corrigendum to the erroneous understanding of my friend on the other side it is not as if there have been no scarcity in Nigeria we are only saying the magnitude of this scarcity this time and the timing and the cost of getting the of fear this time has never happened in Nigeria where you will need to queue from a filling station when it man or tanker drivers are not on strike and the government see not to have said anything about what is responsible for this and you are buying fuel at 500 Naira a liter it has never happened that is why everybody is complaining about that what to come to your question I have said before that governor erupai is not one person whose talk can be considered as a killer talk he is a regular visitor to the villa he is a member of the team you can call the inner member of the kitchen in the villa so when he speaks people must take him serious and let me take you again you know me I am not a fan I am not a friend of governor but let me openly say this it is time to listen and to recalibrate what governor we can say before now oh really accused yes I must say this because it has sorry sorry my sorry mr chairman I'm so sorry I have to talk over you the same governor who your your governor has been accusing of trying to destroy his government and of course there's trouble in the PDP that made him leave that same governor are we talking about the same person no no no listen to me yes there is only one governor we can and listen to what I'm saying he said something I said what he said it is time for us now to analyze what he said in relation to the arrogance that he accused his presidential candidate of perpetuating when he said that there are people in the villa that are working for his for the presidential candidate of his party and that is why he's displaying such arrogance all governor who I have come to say today appears to be a corroboration of that allegation that was made by governor wiki I'm not saying that governor wiki has become insane I'm not saying he has become a prophet that we should listen to actually it is time to change that statement he made in relation to this cycle in the villa seriously but let me tell you why I see why you bother me a tinnable of governor who I should not bother we are field workers I represent not just the interest of the progressives in the field but I speak the mind of majority of members of our party who have today seen the images of a see why you bother i'm a tinnable as a proper candelabra that has come to illuminate the whole dark end we are going to the darkest moment of our time and when you see a candelabra not just an ordinary candelabra a menorah in the build of a see why you I'm a baller tinnable you know one and but let me tell you there are literations if you read in the bible the book of george 13 verses nine the prayer of manua this is going to happen to the heartbeat and prayer of manua and the angel of god came again we recall that before 8th of june when after what you got the ticket of our party there was this same plan by this so-called element in the villa and it almost led to confusion our national chairman where he came out and pronounce amed lawan he pronounced amed lawan as the consensus candidate of the reputations of course in nigeria we stood up against it I am the acting national secretary on forum of state chairman in nigeria we stood against it by the special days of god so if i get you clearly if i get you clearly you're saying that you're our president mr president mohammed abu harry is working against his own presidential candidate to make sure that he does not emerge i'm trying to understand what this means because if you're accusing the presidency the presidency does not just comprise of other people you have the vice president you have the president you have the people that work in the executive council so you're accusing whoever you call the presidency including mr president of trying to sabotage bola ametini which is what you mean by something happened and then an angel I mean I'm trying to understand this apc pointing fingers at the apc and now you're also telling me that tico abubakar who is not a member of the apc is is working with people in the presidency to scuttle abola ametini's election it's preposterous but help me understand please no no before you use the word preposterous let me correct you very fast if president buhari is working against asiwaj bola ametini i would broadly come out here and tell you mr president is working against our candidate and we'll tell him mr president you cannot do that if nobody will say it i are conscious of guy aba the chairman of apc inclusive will tell mr president president mohammed buhari that you cannot work against asiwaj bola ametini but he is not doing that I was present during the unveiling of our presidential candidate and the campaign money campaign presidential team and I listened to mr president I could feel his body language he is working for asiwaj bola ametini and nobody's accusing him of that when there's some element and don't forget it is not everybody in the villa that is an apc member and god know every fight take more of that you have other human beings that are there that are political they have they call it short their views are respected and these are the elements because I recall and I got to know that there was never a time a one national chairman senator abdulla yadamu had any relationship or meeting with mr president or any key person to have come out to make a pronouncement about amet lawan but he came out and made that statement it is still the element around the villa that we are talking about interesting I think we would not we will not and I said it on authority we will not give any opportunity okay so straight hours when I think we have straight or hard work okay I think we have a lemona back with us the lemona I'm sorry um the network was not friendly but now you're back let's see how great it is can you hear me yes I can hear you I think that and I say this as respectfully as possible I think that the statements from my friend on the other side are indicative of the disconnect that apc has from the life and the well-being of the ordinary Nigerian over the course of the last seven and a half years and it's very evident and first of all it is let us remember the issues here are the use of the fuel scarcity and the use of the narrow redesign to sabotage the presidential ambition of ashua jibola amet lulu these are the consequence of two very badly sought out policies in the first place these are the consequences of two very badly sought out or badly implemented policies in the first let us remember in addition to his role as president of the federal republic of Nigeria president muhammad bubuhari illegally called the role of minister of petroleum and chairman of the board of the nmpc the government agency directly responsible for the importation the distribution and the pricing of petroleum product directly how do you say you're accusing elements of sabotage without accusing mr president when the buck the buck the buck of these three offices responsible for the availability of petroleum products rest on his desk but in lemona the people who have said over the people the people who have spoken on behalf of mr president many times who say well that's why there's a minister of state for petroleum that's why there's an nmpc boss and these people have a job to do and mr president has the job of governing the country remember that the key roles the key roles are president of the federal republic of Nigeria um shaman of the board of the nmpc minister of petroleum all of them key roles but we will go even beyond that mr president was on television saying that he thought that the currency redesign the currency was a well sorted policy and that it had come to stay and that there was no going back on it again have the courage of your convictions if you're going to accuse me have the courage of your conviction yes mr president is out there saying i am responsible you are saying is pdp members that are responsible who are responsible for the implementation of policies that we have fought anybody who comes to television at this time any member of the apc who comes to television at this time in 2023 to say oh subsidy removal is a good policy ought to do so first with an apology to the 920 we in the pdp proposed the removal of subsidy 11 years ago 11 years ago the apc shut down this country all the leaders of the apc participated all the key the three key people that we are talking about today were significant participants in the occupying Nigeria protests in 2012 president muhammadu bohari who said that anybody who says he's subsidizing anything is a fraud was a frontline member a frontline organizer for rm occupying Nigeria as you are you are met in front line organ organizer for occupying Nigeria nothing to air with fire frontline occupying organizer for occupying Nigeria 11 years later that oh their eyes are suddenly open and your opening line is not an apology you are not apologizing to us for having all the suffer that we've had all the sufferings that we have to do we have to bear over the course of the last 11 years that's not your opening opening line the first thing you're not saying to us is oh you were wrong and now because we were wrong we don't even think you should be able to trust our sense of judgment after all we've made you suffer so much i'm saying all of that to say does it disconnect anybody who says that these things are being designed in january it's february of 2022 2023 to frustrate ashore the quality of the ordinary nigerian the reality of the ordinary nigerian has been that we have suffered uncountable economic losses for for the past 14 months occasioned by fuel's casting we have suffered the loss of life occasioned by fuel this world's castes and this problem they have suffered loss of productivity we have suffered innumerable losses that the president the presidential candidate of the apc will only speak up now and say oh it is being done so to charge me shows the selfishness i think that this suffering is about him and it is not about the 200 million nigerians who simply cannot live the life that they deserve under his political party he thinks this is about him as you would not have spoken if he thought he could win this election without without the if he thought he could win this election the only reason why he's speaking now is because nigerians have shown the determination not to reward the failure of the apc and so this is an attempt a failed attempt to distance himself from the apc-led federal government so that it looks like is those guys that did it is not me who is doing it but this is the self-same person who stands on television and tells us that he's going to continue he's going to continue the legacies of president mohammed buhari and we can see that legacies that president mohammed buhari has decreased us with are legacies of sorrow tears pain and blood and anybody who promises and continues those legacies is actually threatening the life the welfare and the well-being of every nigeria okay right here you see a reason why they should not be rewarded with our votes in in 23 days time um while you were off mr eba made a statement saying that maybe it's time to listen to governor wiki who has been saying that your principle uh is working with some certain elements in asorok to sabotage the apc to sabotage you know and he's he's saying that maybe it's time to listen to governor wiki because there might be some iota of truth to it what's your take on this i will say this my principle is ready and willing to work with anybody to recover nigeria from the morass that we have suffered over the last so is it could it be true that he has a hand in what's happening is he working to sabotage the apc i believe that if if we are blaming our opposition candidates for the lack of availability of fuel then what's the point of an election let's just give him the rings of power and from from may 29 let's him just go ahead and solve our problems if we're holding an opposition candidate responsible for cbs monetary policy what's the purpose why are we having an election we should just give him the rings of power for him in his office and hold him responsible what you see here is evidence of the apc's refusal to take responsibility for their failures constantly they have constantly spent the last seven and a half years blaming everybody for themselves but at this point now apc is actually blaming apc so maybe there's you know there's there's a light at this dark end of this tunnel but the sum total of what apc blaming apc means for the average nigerian is that we have found the people that are responsible for our pain and our suffering and we cannot we must not reward them with our votes what we have in front of us is evidence of people who don't know anything about governance evidence of people who don't know anything about taking responsibility we have to go so people don't know anything about implementing simple solutions that improve our lives that welfare and well-being that's what we're seeing here everything else that we're doing is nice if it were just people out in we have to go i'm so sorry we have to go we have to go unfortunately time never waits for us um i want to say thank you to the chairman of the all progressive congress in cross river state let me let me just give my closing word i'm just very very quickly because we have to go now i i think he missed the point but he has spoken from a point of a man who appears to be getting washed out of himself we have said just two things the issue of the nihilary design wonderful policy but look at the implementation that you cannot withdraw money from the counter in the last in the last 48 hours 72 hours after depositing all your money what is a mafia doing one of the bad product we inherited from the pdp who are those that are responsible but was appointed by mr president who represents the ap allow me to learn allow me to learn who are those responsible for the subsidy regime the entire contractors during the pdp era and that is the point i have also said to the federal government that you must have the coverage we have to go gentlemen we have to go we have to go unfortunately we have to go we will come back and have this conversation another time i'm sorry we have to go time is not on our side thank you so much our font is about is the apc chairman for cross river state lemona lodger and lodger is the head of new media department for the pdp presidential campaign council we'll take a quick break when we return we'll be discussing inek raising alarm over fuel scarcity and the effect you might have on voting materials coming to the polling stations on election day stay with us