 Well, let me say a little bit to you about the difference between pastors and leaders. I think we've made them one of the same thing. I know to think they are. Most growing, thriving, flourishing organizations, including churches, are that because the person in charge is clearly a leader with the skills required to grow anything they're attached to. Even in the church we call the person in charge a pastor and assume that that means that they bring everything to the table that's needed for an organization to flourish. But I believe a lot of leaders are trapped inside a pastor's identity and I certainly was for the first sort of 20 years or so of my time leading a local church. And when the pastor decides to lead, which requires him to become a little bit more assertive, more opinionated, perhaps controversial, disruptive, then people get upset thinking there's something wrong with the pastor. The pastor needs a sabbatical or he's not being very pastoral. And so often the leader subsides, the pastor comes back to the fore because it's unpopular to be a leader often in a volunteer-based context where people feel they're giving at the time voluntarily and we shouldn't really ask much from them because they're not paid staff members. I think that fosters the gain. In much of the church the pastors lean towards being nurturing and teaching and creating kind of family atmosphere as a father figure but they are not leading and what makes any organization including the church grow is not nurturing but is leading and pioneering and constantly keeping that thing moving forward. So I want to say to you pastors that track with me or listen to anything I talk about regarding the church and your role that what will make your church grow is not you being pastoral and absorbed in the care and maintenance of the needs of the flock. Others can do that and others should be doing that that keep releasing you to get out the leadership strength that you have where you can clearly see what needs changing. You can see what's stopping you growing. You can have a mind for the position of people and resource to facilitate growth. You can be around growth-oriented environments and people. So you grow yourself as a leader more than grow yourself as a pastor. I think that's why sometimes we give the label pastor and it becomes a misnomer because a lot of you listening to me now don't feel like a pastor. You have the badge of one but you feel more like a leader. There's so many things you want to do that you feel if you do them, if you speak like a leader, behave and think like a leader that the pastor part of you will come under threat and people will feel that part of you is dissipating and fading and I want that bit of you back because people want to be nurtured they don't really want to be led but I've observed that all organizations and we're talking about the church here but all organizations especially the church that are thriving around the world are that because they have a leader in charge the leader may be called a pastor but trust me it is not their pastoral abilities or title or role that is bringing growth to that church it is their leadership abilities so pastors don't grow churches leaders do and I'm encouraging the pastor to fade and the leader to come to prominence one must decrease one must increase I'm encouraging the leadership gene to come out of the pastoral lamp and stay out and not go back in because if you'll do that and not be afraid of the kickback you get from being a leader and continue to see the value of what you bring to the table and how different you think and how different you lead and the difference it makes when you have a leadership hat on as it were then I want you to stay there and realize that that is the key to the continued thriving growing of that church now if you are a pastor and you are not a leader I you're more a nurturer and a carer of the flock than a leader then you need to release and empower the leadership around you and even bring leaders from outside to bring the leadership that perhaps is not your primary strength so either way the church is going to grow through your leadership your leadership or someone else's leadership so we want it to be you if it's not you don't become a cork in the bottle and a ceiling on the church in their organization if you're not a leader that can do what I'm saying then you can still be a great pastor a great pastoral leader as it were but make room for others to come through with a leadership gift because leadership will take that thing forward.