 Welcome to another episode of In The Zone. I am your host, Chris Broussard. We got another tremendous episode for you. First of all, we did our sit-down interview with Danny Green of the San Antonio Spurs. We talked to him about the Spurs season, how they've been able to win despite the injuries, his own journey to the NBA. And of course, we get the scoop on the Kawhi Leonard situation, the meeting, and all that. We also, of course, have my man, Jason McIntyre, for Knock Down Jay. And as always, we're gonna hit you with a great top five. And since I sat down with Danny Green, he, of course, plays for one of the all-time great coaches in Greg Popovich. That got me to thinking, who are the best five coaches in NBA history? And at number five, I'm going with Lenny Wilkins. Lenny Wilkins, one of the few people in the world to ever be inducted into the NBA Hall of Fame as both a player and a coach. He did it as a coach because he's the second-winningest coach of all time with over 1,130 victories. Then he also won a title, 1979, with the Seattle SuperSonics. And check this out, there have been two teams in 38 years, the last 38 years of NBA history, to win a championship without a bonafide superstar or a guy who would be considered a top 50 player of all time. One of them was Lenny Wilkins, Seattle SuperSonic teams. So he did a great job of coaching them. Also was great in Cleveland and Atlanta and some other places. Lenny Wilkins, fifth-greatest coach of all time. At number four, the man, Pat Riley, coach the Lakers, the Knicks, the Miami Heat, has won five championships altogether, four with the Showtime Lakers of Magic Johnson and Karim Abdul-Jabbar. And then 18 years after his last title with the Lakers, he leads the Miami Heat to a championship in 2006. Pat Riley showed his greatness when he left LA and went to the New York Knicks. Now in LA, he's coached this glamorous, up-and-down, fast-brake style with Magic Johnson leading the way. Then he goes to New York and completely changes his coaching style and coaches the Knicks of Patrick Ewing to a hardcore, defense-first, slow-down type game that made them a top team in that era and a contender against Michael Jordan. So Pat Riley can coach in many ways and that's what makes him the fourth-greatest coach of all time. At number three, Greg Popovich, San Antonio Spurs. This guy, similar to Pat Riley, can coach to the strengths of his players. When he had David Robinson and Tim Duncan, twin towers, we're going inside. When David Robinson gets older, they build it around Tim Duncan. When Tim Duncan gets older, Tony Parker and the pick and roll becomes the focal point of the team. When Parker gets over, they do a lot of ball movement. They're shooting a lot of threes when they beat Miami in the finals. Then they get Kawhi Leonard to come of age and Lamarcus Aldridge is a free agent. They go more ISO style. Greg Popovich adjusts to the strengths of his players. Oh, and he's also got five championships. He's also about to lead the Spurs to the playoffs for the 21st straight year, that second longest streak in the NBA history. And then he's got 18 years. It's about to end this year, maybe, but 18 years of 50 or more wins, longest streak in NBA history. Greg Popovich, number three. At number two, I'm going way back. Red Arbok of the Boston Celtics. Look, this guy is an absolute legend. Led the Celtics to nine championships with Bill Russell leading the way. Great thing about Arbok too, is that in that era where racism was just overt, he was a guy that didn't care whether you were a black player, white player, whatever he was the first NBA coach to start five black players. He hired the first black coach, Bill Russell, who actually coached the Celtics to two championships himself. But Red Arbok, great innovator, was the first to create the sixth man. I mean, Red Arbok, second best coach of all time. And at number one, you know who it is, Phil Jackson. A bit of a strange guy, you know, with the zen and the smoking and all that stuff. But you can't take it away from him. The guy is a great coach. 11 championships, obviously, an NBA record. Now everybody would say, well, of course he had Michael Jordan, and Scottie Pippen, and Shaq, and Kobe, but here's the thing. The great Michael Jordan, the goat Michael Jordan, never won a championship without Phil Jackson. Phil Jackson was great psychologically with players, really got him to perform to the best of their ability, got him to play the team basketball that was necessary to win championships. I know we had a lot of great talent, but a lot of other coaches had those players and have had great talent and have not been able to win championships, especially in the way he's done it. Three peats are hard to come by. Phil Jackson has three peated three times. And then his other two championships were a repeat. As good as Popovich is, never repeated. You know, so the ability to get your players to be dialed in, to be hungry, to play with a sense of urgency and want to win a championship after they've won one or two, that is a gift. Phil Jackson has it. That's why he's the best coach of all time. All right, then, look, I have to start out with some NCAA stuff. Obviously, it's that time of year. You won a national championship. How do you compare winning a NCAA championship to an NBA championship? Very hard to compare. Two different styles of play, I guess, or the way the matchups and playoffs are set up. NCAA, if you have one bad game, you're out. NBA, it's a series, so you get an opportunity. Usually, it's the best team during that series or during that time of year, where it was the healthiest and where it was playing the best is probably gonna win the series. And NCAA, it's the best team that night, you know? And that's why you see a lot of upsets, you know? They all make it to the final for UMBC, be in top seeds. This year was, I think, the year of the underdog this year in the NCAA, but for NBA, you don't see many underdogs make it to the finals. It doesn't happen. Yeah, now, you stayed four years. You won it your senior year. What did you gain from staying in college four years, because we see so many guys that don't stay that long? I think I matured a lot as a person, not just a player, but definitely as a player, more polished, understand the game a lot better. But as a person, just understanding how to be a professional, how to be an adult, you know? A lot of guys leave college after one year. They don't know how to fold their own laundry, you know, how to do pay bills or manage money. I think four years helped me, it groomed me, to get into this world, to this lifestyle and understand how to manage my time and money and how to be an adult. But as a player, I'm just how to be a professional. So what do you think about all the, you know, there's talk about the one and done rule being taken away, you know, the scandal with guys getting paid and stuff. What should take, like, do you think they should revamp the system or? I think so. I think in some ways, shape or form, they should find a way to make it fair for, you know, college athletes to get some type of sponsorship deals or get paid some way somehow. I honestly think if you have the opportunity to go work at the age of 18, 19, you should. You know, you're obviously able to do a lot of other things in this world at that age. But I think it helps for kids to do at least one year and mature, especially for our league. So you wouldn't want to see the one and done. Oh, I'm not a fan of it. I mean, but I think if you have every right to do so, but I'm a fan of, you know, guys at least doing one year, I think two years would make guys definitely more polished because a lot of teams and GMs and owners are drafting these young kids just based off their potential. And then when they don't pan out or, you know, they blame us for not working or this or that, and we have your owner, players clashing and when the CBA is up and they say, you know, this is that you drafted these young kids and they didn't show out or pan out to what you expected them to be because they weren't ready. You know, it's not our fault they weren't ready. You guys drafted them, you saw something in them that you thought was special. A lot of these kids are special and they have a lot of high potential, but I think to really see if a player is ready, they need at least a year or two. Yeah, I've always looked at it like, what's fair is that they could come right out of high school if they're ready, because like you said, you can go do anything else. If they're ready. I think it's fair for sure, but if they're ready, they should definitely give a shot. But there was some years before they made the rule change that everybody was jumping out and a lot of them weren't even ready. That's the thing. Actually, my year coming out of high school was the last year that you were able to do it. Yes, that was 04, 05. 05, yeah, so 05, that was our last class. High school class was able to jump from high school to the league, Andrew Bynum's, Gerald Green, and a couple of others. The white was the white? He was 04, 04, yeah, okay. Montiales, Lou Williams, those guys were in my class. Yeah, I agree. I think it'd be better even though it's fair, it'd be better for the, I think basketball at all levels, if you stayed in like two or three years. For sure, for sure. So you come out of school, you get drafted by Cleveland in the second round, play with them, you're in the D-League at that time and then back and forth, yeah. And then go to the Spurs, get cut, you go overseas, where would you play at overseas? Well, so the process was I did a whole year in Cleveland. I played in the D-League a little bit with them. Then I was cut at pre-season with Cleveland. And then I got to work out with San Antonio to do a couple of workouts. They signed me for a couple of days and was cut again. I was supposed to go overseas to play in Italy, but never happened. I got a letter of clearance to play in the D-League, which is now the G-League. I played in Reno for a couple of months. Then got called back up to San Antonio. And that was right before the lockout happened. So the lockout happened that summer and that year. So I signed with the team in Slovenia, Union Olympia. It's in Ljubljana, Slovenia. I played there for about four months and it was very different. It was a different lifestyle. It's a different style of play. Obviously there's different rules with three seconds and you're on the rim, go to them, but practicing twice a day every day. During the season. All year. And coaches over there are like... Very crazy. You think some coaches would know they're crazy there. They're really crazy. And sometimes you're not getting paid. Sometimes you're not getting first class service. It's very different. In some cities you're not in places where people speak English. So it's tough for a lot of guys over there. Luckily I was in a place that was clean. Everybody spoke English. And my organization was pretty upscale. So they made sure everybody got paid at a certain point. Sometimes at some points we weren't getting paid. What's the longest you went without getting paid? Three months. I got paid when I left actually. So I got paid the first month and then when I left I got paid. Wow. So what was your strangest experience overseas? Just the food that they ate. I think in my country they had horse. So some people, it was normal for them to eat horse. Like horse meat. So you ate horse? I've tried it. How was it? It wasn't bad, you know. It's different. Yeah, yeah. But they eat different things over there. The way of traveling, over there the McDonald's and all the fast food restaurants are top notch. They make it, the commercials is really good. Obviously it's bad for you. So it's better to McDonald's over there. It's better. Yeah, it's better over there. McDonald's is a lot better than it is here. But so there's the way of travel. We'd have to travel two and three flights to get certain places and end up in a place like Russia where it's freezing, snow and the wind is blowing your face off. But just had a lot of experiences, especially when you go out too. They don't have like an age limit when you go out. There's 15, 16 year olds out with you. At the clubs and everything? So you gotta be careful. You gotta be very careful. Strange, certain people around you. And even certain countries they have mob stuff going on around you to be careful of. Certain groups, certain crews you have to be aware of and you're surrounding. So it's not the safest thing for everybody. So when you're getting cut by NBA teams, is it hard to keep your confidence up? Do you ever lose confidence like, man, I don't know if I'm good enough or what? Even when you're not playing for NBA teams, you can be on a NBA team and not playing. Your confidence can easily diminish. But that's the job of your teammates, your coaching staff and your foundation really, your family and friends that help keep supporting you emotionally and mentally. Stick with it, your agent too, my agent. He helped me quite a bit through some problems with my family was big with that. Stick with it, your opportunity is gonna come. Just keep working. A lot of teams are still interested. You're an NBA player, you belong there, you deserve to be there. So just show them you belong there. Did you in your mind give yourself a timeframe? Like if I'm not there, or maybe you were thinking I'll play overseas if I have to for the duration? Well, after, so before the lockout, that season. If it didn't work out during that season and the lockout happened and I was still playing in the D-League or overseas, you know, I would just have to go a different route and then figure it out. Like I'll not play ball. Like do something else. I'll play ball but I'll probably go a different route. Either said the D-League or which now the G-League or overseas. So I figured after the lockout happened, if I wasn't, because I had to make the team again in San Antonio, it was a two year non guaranteed deal. So I had to come back and make the team again. If I didn't make the team at that point, I'd probably have to go back overseas and then go that route and figure out another way. Do you ever look back, like did you ever, I'm sure you thought about how you want things to work out. Did you ever picture it working out this way? No. You win an NBA championship. No. You set an NBA finals record. No, I never thought in a million years it would happen the way it happened, especially how fast it happened for me. Yeah. So because quickly I was out of the league and then a quick turn around after that, the lockout happened, I had to make the team. Halfway through the year I ended up starting on the team, we made it to the Western Conference Finals. And then the year after we went to the finals we lost and then year after that we won it. But from being the 15th man on the bench or barely making the team and then starting, Manu had broken his hand, he had a couple injuries and there was a lot of opportunity that came. Looking if I got to play a lot of minutes and then end up starting toward the end of that year, it happened really fast. And it was just the year previous that I was wondering if I was gonna ever be in the league and never thought I'd be a rotational player in the league. So to win a championship within two or three years of being out of the league, it was something that I could never predict. 2013, that's the year you guys losing seven to Miami. And you hit 27 threes that was a finals record at that time. It seemed like that, yeah. The Ray Allen shot, and you guys know that, that probably still hurts you losing that finals. But how much did that really, how responsible was that for what you guys did the next year in 2014? Oh, it took 100% of how we felt, how we carry ourselves the next year, the chip that we had on our shoulder coming back. It definitely left the scar still to this day, because we always think that we could have had to. Yeah, one more, yeah. But he had a big shot, not only him, but other guys in that team, they had a good team. But the way we played in game six, we had them. We just had a couple of mistakes that shot ourselves in the foot type of deal. And but that shot in game six and seven, the way they kind of took it away from us, it definitely left the scar and put a chip on our shoulder for that whole year. That summer was a rough summer and that whole year was even tough. Was it hard getting through to 82? It was. Pop was on another level, everybody's on another level, just getting back there. Every game we prepared for was for that moment of being back in the finals and playing against that team. And lucky enough, we got the opportunity, we stayed healthy. Everybody was clicking at the right time. We had a good group that had been there for three or four years together. And we started playing pretty good basketball. It was a lot of fun. And y'all were hoping it was Miami. Oh, for sure. You were pulling for them. We wanted them again. Let's get to some current stuff. Y'all had a bad stretch in February. I was like, man, I haven't seen the Spurs. We had a bad stretch all year. We had a bad year. For us, anyways, it's been a couple of bad stretches. It wasn't just February, but yeah, we had a bad stretch in February for sure. Well, lately you lost three or 14 and now you've won eight or 10. What's been the difference? Oh, well, we are definitely being at home help. February, we're on the road more than anything. That's already a road trip for us, but our fans are great. We have one of the most underrated sports cities in the country, which I think is one of the top, especially fan-based-wise. Our fans are crazy about us. And the Final Four is there right now. I'm sure people are seeing and understanding how much they love sports there. But being at home, us being able to refocus, we got some guys healthier. We got Rudy back. All year, we've had so many guys out. I don't think the only person that's been healthy for us is Patty. Patty's been healthy for most of the year. Rudy's been out half the season almost. L.A. had some tweaks here and there. Powell had some injuries. I had an injury with the groin. Obviously, Kwai's been out the whole year. Damn, there's no mind when Tony had some up now. Tony missed the first half of the season. So this year was very different for us injury-wise. I don't think they've ever had a season like this. But you, I mean, you're right. You mentioned all the injuries, but a lot of times, man, it seems like you guys, you might be missing a star. I mean, you've been missing Kwai. And you're still right now, the fourth seed in the West. How do you guys do it when you're out? When, you know, you said lineups out there, people don't even know three of the starters. Yeah, well, that's- And when? Slowly based on our coaching staff and what they can put together and what they do. The lineups, the, you know, the coverages that they throw at different people and just developing those guys and trusting those younger guys. Our younger guys have grown a lot this year. They got the opportunity to do a lot, play a lot more than they normally would have. And we've groomed them to be ready, prepared for, you know, this time of year and for the playoffs. I think it's coming around. I think they're learning a lot more. He's getting better. He's adapting, adjusting very well. You know, obviously he's taking some games, but, you know, he's kind of where we want him to be. And hopefully he continues to grow. But LA stepped up quite a- Everybody else has stepped up. We've come together as a team and everybody keeps talking about the meeting, we had multiple meetings and those meetings have helped us come together. And our coaching staff, they've, you know, come together. We count on the same page and staying positive. And things started to turn around for us. Once you get, you know, one or two wins, then confidence, momentum, and, you know, we start playing better together. And I think for us, mostly said, defensively, you know, we started out great first half of the season defensively. And then the kind of February, we kind of lacked off. We started picking that back up and that's what's been helping us to be more successful. What, you mentioned the coaching staff. What makes Greg Popovich such a good coach? He gets everybody to fall in line. He holds everybody accountable. You know, everybody has his undivided attention. And they listen, they buy into everything that he's saying and what he wants from you. And because he knows what he's doing, obviously he's been successful at it and he's continuing to be successful at it. So I said it starts from the top one down. And if he sees, if everybody can see him cuss out Timmy, Tony, and Manu, you know- So that really said it. Like the fact that you're a star. When you first get into this organization, you see it first the first day. You know, he's gonna cuss one of the vets out and you go, oh, you know, I'm not safe here. So he can easily cuss anybody out, but he holds them accountable just as much as the younger guys. Obviously he gives the young guys a little more time because they don't understand system. He holds the older guys more accountable because they've been there so long and they should know better. But you get everybody to fall in line. That's the first step in letting guys know the game is not, you know, the game is bigger than you. You know, it's not a place for egos. And so they recruit the right people. I was gonna say, cause like a lot of players don't like being yelled at in the NBA. Most don't. Yeah, so why do you think, you may have said it, the fact that your superstars take it- Are very humble. And they know that the game said it's not about them. They know the game is bigger than them. It's about the team and they're willing to get cussed out for the better of the team or to understand or take the criticism. All of them are, you know, humbled guys. Nobody likes to get yelled at. But, you know, we understand where it's coming from. We understand the criticism, what we need to do. And to get cussed out less or yelled out less, you know, we have to do better. And not just for ourselves, but for our teammates and for our team. So, you know, it kind of starts with the characters that they bring in and, you know, how they build the team around those characters. I was gonna say, cause have you seen guys come there, you don't have to name names, and not be able to, they're not Spurs type guys. For sure. They don't last very long. But eventually, most of those guys, I said, if they buy in, they'll adapt and adjust to it. Some of them, very few, you know, don't adapt and adjust. And then you can tell their personality, they're not Spurs like guys. So they won't stick around too long. They're usually there for a year or two and then go somewhere else. So, but somehow they always find hidden treasure in different countries. They find a good, you know, big man or a shooting guard who was really good and knows the value of, you know, being over here and playing in this league and understands, you know, they don't need to have an ego. They don't need to score or it's about their points or their individual accolades. They just want to win games and also play here. So they're just grateful to be here. I've always, I don't know how much you follow football, but I've always- I used to follow quite a bit. Okay. When I was younger, I used to play. How long did you play? I played up until my sophomore year in high school. I was a quarterback. Quarterback. When I transferred to school, they didn't have a football team anymore. So yeah, I had to stop playing to give it up. Were you as good at football as basketball? At the time, people thought so. People thought I was probably better at football. So you were thinking, really? Yeah, but with my school, we didn't throw. So I was a quarterback. So you were running quarterback? I got a couple of recruits, you know, from different schools. Couple of schools recruited me, but not major because I was really young at the time. But I could throw, but we just never threw the ball. And then outdoor sports in New York, it's cold, snow. And in the summertime, it was really hot. So indoor sports, I was like, you know, I'm gonna stick to this. And my dad kind of pushed me toward that way as well. Yeah. So I was gonna say football. I've always thought of the Spurs as like the Patriots. And Papa Vichy like Bill Belichick. And now there's all this stuff about players saying it's not fun to play for Belichick and all that. Is it fun to play for Pop? At times. But you know, the fun part of it is winning. You know, when you do your job, obviously he's gonna be on top of you. He's gonna be on you. He holds you a certain way. He holds the organization a certain way to be professional. And when you have that type of professionalism around, the whole, you know, organization is gonna be less air or less room for error and less jokes and clowning around. Obviously guys like to have fun. We still have some fun here and there, but it's a lot less of that. In our organization. So when you're losing is tough, you know, when it's really tight and then you're losing, but the fun part is winning. We've always won 50, you know, plus season, 50 wins plus and been top seed in the playoffs and gone pretty decent in the playoffs. And that's the fun part of it. So you have to sacrifice some of those, you know, jokes and games and clown around and having, you know, fun going out, you know, to be successful if you want to be successful. Do you feel there are any misconceptions about the Spurs? No. I think what people kind of think is kind of what we are. You know, I don't think there's any hidden, obviously we're very private about everything we do. There's some things behind the scenes, I'm sure that you don't know about, but what you see is kind of what you get from with us. You know, obviously they're known as a very professional top to bottom type organization. They do things by the book and you know, even off the court is a great guy about, you know, he speaks up for us in politics, speaks up for us in different, encouraged us to express ourselves because everybody comes from different countries and different cultures. So, you know, he's big on that and he updates us what's going on in the world because we're all stuck in our little bubble of just NBA and playing games and think it's life or death because we're losing games and still at the end of the day it's a basketball game and he lets us know that and updates us what's going on in news and sometimes quizzes us so. Really? Yeah. Cause when I'm around Popovich, it does seem like he's more interested. Like if you ask him a basketball question or something, he might not want to even talk about it. But ask him about wine or politics or race or whatever, Trump and he's gonna go off. Is he like that with you guys? He's very passionate about it. Obviously with us, we see him more so on the court. So we'll talk basketball when we're there. But when we leave the court, he's talking about restaurants. We're wine, there's a good food spot here. Then what happened to the news? Anybody know who this person is or who got fired today? He's big on that and that's most of us. When we get off the court, we kind of want to leave basketball alone so that we won't burn ourselves out. When I leave, I'd rather watch TV shows instead of the game, watch a good TV series. So what's your favorite TV show? Can't say I have a favorite. Right now I'm watching a lot of different things. I'm catching up on all the old ones. I used to watch the top five for me like Game of Thrones, Homeland is a good one, Breaking Bad, those are the top ones that I have watched. But I'm trying to go back now and catch the ones that I missed, like The Wire. Oh, I was gonna ask you something. So I'm kind of in the middle of that right now and a Sopranos is another one that I have to catch up on. So you do that on the road? Yeah. Our planes, so the air is, we don't have a lot of stuff going on in our planes. So guys either reading books or watching their TV shows. So you mean like playing card, y'all? You don't see it on our plane. You don't see the camera. Is that a rule or? It's not a rule, it's just how our atmosphere is. It's how it's always been and kind of carried over since even when, since Timmy's left, but since Timmy's been here, it's always everybody watches their shows, they do their own thing and read books or sleep. So we have a lot of downtime to watch TV shows. And that's when I started when I got here a couple of years ago, just watching, downloading some TV series because it's on the plane. You might talk to a guy next to you, but other than that, nobody's, nobody that's going on in our plane. Kawhi Leonard, obviously been in the news and the headlines. What's going, everybody's asking, what's going on? When is he coming back? What's your understanding of everything? The only person that really knows is Kawhi Leonard. But from my understanding is he had an injury last season that has been, you know, messed with him. He was supposedly, it was kind of with him last season. He played through it some of last season and trickled down to get worse during the summertime. Came back, you know, he said he had some issues with it. So they were working on it, rehabbing it. And I guess he had a setback. He had a couple of setbacks and then try to ree, I guess, evaluate and had another group reevaluate it. But said nobody really knows except for Kawhi. He's been out. He came back for some games. He seemed like he was okay, but I guess, you know, he reevaluated it and it didn't look right. Things didn't go the way he wanted it to go. He was still in pain. So he said right now, but in our mind, we've been all year, especially since all-star break, we've mentally, our mindset is he's not coming back. Mentally, we would just, this is the group that we have and he's probably, there's only five games left now. So we're still have that mentality. Great to have him. But we don't really know. You know, we had communication. We sat down with some of us, talked to him individually. We text him and he's still very much a part of our team. So you're in touch with him. We're all in touch with him. We all text him. We're all in touch with him. He's still very much a part of our group and our team, we still have his back. Whatever his decision is, what he's doing. And that was part of the meeting. We just let him know that. We're trying to get updates because we get updates through the media sometimes and we don't really know. So just trying to find out what's going on. And I don't think he even really knows because he's waiting to hear back from his group, his doctors, when they're clearing him and letting him know that he's able to go. What percentage he's at and what it'll sustain. Cause he said he was at a good percentage when he came back. But once he started playing, I guess, deteriorated and diminished. Started getting more pain. So they're trying to find out what's a good place for him to be at where he can sustain strength I guess in that muscle. So when you, there were reports that came out about the meeting being tense. And you were like, you tweeted though, that's far, couldn't be further from truth. What was the meeting like? I mean, what you can say about it? Kind of like how we were just talking, just like adults, how me, you were talking. So you, I've described our team, our personalities in our team, our organization, our facility. We don't have a character like those guys in our team that are gonna be beef in the locker room or have intense conversations. We all understand injuries, especially the older guys. They understand careers. They understand what you're going through and minds that everybody's an individual business. CEO of your own business, your own body. We respect that. We all respect each other. So we just sat down and talked. And it wasn't just about him, but at that point too, we were losing games. So we needed to regroup and also just communicating and finding out what you're trying to find out. And said there's no real answer. We don't know. I don't think he really knows. So nobody was going at him like, yo man, you softer. No, not at all. We don't have a person. Could you picture of Manu and Tony? They said Manu, could you picture of Manu and Tony? That doesn't even look like them. I don't know what that would look like. But beyond is the total opposite of tense. Everybody is just communicating, talking and seeing what the next step was for us as a group. And not just him, but just getting an update from him but seeing the next step was for us. So last thing about this, there is this narrative. I don't know how much you follow it. There's this narrative building out there that Kawhi and the Spurs or not just the front office but the team, the players are at odds and all that. I can say from our team and from their perspective and standpoint, I can speak for most of them. There is no odds. We're not at odds with him. I don't know about the front office. I don't know about family issues or whatever that is. I would like to guess none because he's in the facility. He's at the arena. He's still there. They communicate. This will talk and check up on him. He still works out with our training staff. But from the team's perspective, there's nobody on our team that's at odds with him. We understand, so we have his background, so what he's going through. And the younger guys, most of them are happy to see him be around but also lucky to have the opportunity to play because he's out but he's also there teaching them. And obviously, we would love to have him. Like I said, we could use him and probably could need him if we want to make this last run. But we feel we have a pretty good group right now and we're playing decent basketball. And hopefully everybody's getting 100% healthy, but most of us are getting healthier. That's the most important part of this time of the season. You, I was reading, I think you had an article about you in Sports Illustrated recently. You were interviewed and you were saying you love, you and the Spurs in general love Skip Bayless. Yeah, Skip's an honorary. I might be one of the few teams. Yeah, he's honorary Spur. He's one of the few that he likes. He says that y'all would have beat the Spurs. I'm sorry, you would have beat the Warriors last year in the playoffs with Kawhi. What's your thoughts on that? I mean, you know, what a coulda shoulda. If this, if that, you know, you could always say ifs or you know, what as good as, we won't know. I think we had a really good chance. I think we would have won game one and it would have been a better, more interesting series. They obviously are a great team. They have a great coach. I'm sure they would have adjusted and adapted and refocused and, you know, who knows how it would have went. But I think for sure we had a better shot at beating them with him, you know, not being injured. But, you know, things happen. And usually it's at the healthiest team. They were the healthiest team for the last, you know, three or four years with, you know, the best team also. But them being the healthiest for the last three or four years is the reason why they've been the finals. What's the key you feel like to beating them? I think teams are kind of figuring out a little bit of how their style of play is. You know, you have to, obviously, small ball is the thing nowadays. You have to go one through four small, where you can switch down the line. But you got to kind of... So you guys don't look at it as going big with pow and... We can switch up sometimes. It depends on, you know, with the lineup. Sorry, if we go small, we'll try to match. If we go big, we'll try to slow the game down. You know, obviously as the coaching staff, that's what they're paid to do. That's above my pay grade. But if I were to guess, you know, slow the game down against them, not turn the ball over, obviously. And, you know, get to their shooters. Hopefully they have it off-night, miss them. But you want to make their other guys make plays. So try to limit those three guys, four guys obviously have all sorts. But the main three shooters, from getting as many touches as possible, slow the game down, not turn the ball over. If you slow the game down, it allows your defense to go guard them better. Because once they're out and running, they have too many shooters to find and transition that somebody's going to be open. Now, you guys just beat Houston by 17, beat them last year in the playoffs, in six games. What do you think, like, what's going to be the key if you guys meet them in the playoffs? Same? Same. Are they very similar to the Warriors? They like to get up and down. They like to run. They like to shoot a lot of threes. I think Golden State might be a little bit better defensively than Houston. But Houston has so many threats and scores, they can outscore you. So you have to slow the game down on them. You can't let them get out and transition. Try to let them get lower possessions. Limit their stars when you get as many good looks. But just try not to let them get as many threes, run them off the line, and hopefully they have off-night. It looked like last year in the playoffs, y'all ran them off the line. And you know they don't want to pull up for a mid-range jump, right? So you know if you get them off the line. That's kind of what you're kind of giving up. You don't want the rim. You don't want the free throw line or three ball. That's what James Hardin specializes in. Three balls, or getting at the rim, or getting some free throw line. You want to kind of keep him. It's hard to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Keep him from doing all three of those things. It's really hard to do. But you know, Pop's going to ask us to do that. You know, coach is going to want you to be perfect. So we want to give up, and that's most teams. Most of the mid-range games is kind of a lost art now. With most teams, not many teams shoot it well. So you kind of want to give that up. Most teams just shoot threes or try to get to the rim. Is it easier to guard? I mean, the three obviously isn't easy to guard. But when you kind of know they don't want to pull up at 15 feet, you know they're going to attack the rim. Does that make it easier? A little bit. It's easier to guard when you know that you're able to give up something. And you know what it is that you want to give up. Because if a coach says, I want you to stop this, I want you to stop everything, then it's hard to guard that. I don't want them to get threes. I don't want to give mid-range or layups. You've got to pick one of those. I've got to give up something because it's hard to stop. You know, all-star player, great player from doing all three. So it's easier to adjust defensively as a player to be like, all right, it's okay if I give this up. You know, I'll make him make the extra pass. If I give up this corner three to this guy, then that's okay. If I give up the mid-range, these guys, then we'll live with that. If he makes a shot, you know, we'll give him a pat on the back and you know, two claps. I'm an MVP voter. Who should I vote for? This year, I think hands down, it's pretty easy to tell. You know, number one team in the league. Yeah, hard. Once again, even with guys out, you know, with CP being out, I was leading scorer in the league. I mean, he's done a lot. But being number one team in the league this year, he's been, you know, top three MVP for the last couple of years. And I said, him having overall, I don't know if overall right now, but they're definitely number one in the West. Yeah, they got the best one. So it's hands down an easy choice for most people, I think. Who do you think is the best player in the league? The best player in the world to me. You know, there's a lot of, you know, people with a lot of chat, there's a lot of options. But I think LeBron James, it's for most people would choose, you know, start your organization or start your franchise. What would be a player like that? You know, he just impacts the game just differently than a lot of people, not just scoring, passing, rebound. He does so many things. And not saying other guys don't want to create that attention and don't do that, but it's hard to be that big of a person or player and be able to move the way he does and do the things he does on so many aspects or levels of the game. Most guys are really good at scoring. Most guys really good at shooting. He's upped his game not only from, you know, those other things, but he also increased his shooting percentage. He's also gotten better with, you know, shooting free throws. He'd done all the little things each year. In 15 seasons, you would think he would kind of diminish a little bit. But no, he's kind of even getting better. But even without those things, he said he's just the way he impacts the game, the attention he draws and how he gets his, you know, team to play. Certain players have revamped their careers playing with the guy. I was going to ask you, your rookie year you played with him. That was his last year in Cleveland. Before he left to Miami. Yeah. What are your memories of that season? What was it like playing with him? Well, I was, I was young. I was rookie. I was a sponge. I remember being a big kid, a lot of fun, very humble guy down to earth. But, you know, he was good. He could take over the game at any point whenever he wanted to. But I learned a lot from him. You know, Shaq was there at the time. Mo Williams, Anthony Parker, Delante West, you know, Jamar Amun. I learned a lot from those guys. They were a fun group to be around. They loved to, you know, have fun, you know, hang out. We did a lot as a team. But, you know, on the court, they took care of business, but I said, on the court, I learned a lot, you know, just watching them play and playing against them. But you can see there's a big difference from then and now of how much he's matured as a player and a leader and, you know, being a professional coming from Miami. I was going to say, there's a lot of talk about him being better now. Do you think he's better now than back in 2010? I think he's more mature and smarter. He was always a high-Q player in my eyes, but I think going to Miami and learning was how to win. Back then, he could win games, but he didn't know how to really, I don't know how to, he didn't know how to win, win. You know, so, exactly, championship win, so. Because I thought y'all were good enough to win that championship that year. They had the team, they had the tools, but I don't think we had the experience of the matured, the only person that had the experience was Shaq and he was toward the end of his career. He was older. So I think him going to Miami definitely helped him mature and learn how to win, you know, and being with Pat Riley and being along with Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosch. Obviously it helps with those great players, but even with, you know, you have the greatest roster of all time. If you don't have the experience or, you know, somebody at the top teaching you or helping you learn how to be there, you're not going to get there. That's a good point because I've never obviously been playing the NBA and so never played in series, you know. It's always been one and done high school and college and stuff. How grueling, it must be like grueling seven games. More so mentally than anything. You know, I think the team that's mentally tough is the one that lasts the longest because the season itself is already tough and they say, you know, they extended it, it's supposed to be easier. It doesn't seem like it. Yeah. You know, your body, your mind, emotionally you're beat up. You know, you're kind of done with it. You want to be on vacation, you want to be home, you want to be with your family. So guys that I can actually mentally lock in and stay with it or the team that actually mentally locks in and sticks with it as a team, usually that goes the furthest. So, yeah. And there's no surprises. No. You get to a point where you must know everything they're going to do and they must know everything. Exactly. So you're studying everything they're doing and it also comes down to a lot of coaching. You know, game to game it changes. You know, depending on who you're playing, obviously sometimes you may have a team that you're just, you know, way better than them. And you'll, okay, it's not going to be easy regardless, but you know that you can beat them, you know, more games than, you know, they will out of five or six games. But there's some teams that are, you know, evenly matched. Most teams have, you know, enough talent to evenly match. And game to game, you'll have a good win. You might win by 20. The next game you might lose by 20. It's like, because they just have a coaching change or, and then you have to go back to film, you go back to drawing board, see what are those mistakes you need to fix and what things you need to change of how they're adapting just to how you're guarding them or how you're playing them. And they obviously figured it out. This is how they're playing us. So this is what's open. They found the open spot. Now we have to change it up to see, you know, if they can adjust the depth of that and it might change the whole series. Now I've said, LeBron, we know could be a free agent this summer. I've said on TV, I think if he went to the Spurs, that'd be the best place for him to win championships going forward. Probably. How do you see him fitting it? Would he fit into the whole Spurs culture and everything? I mean, obviously they'll make it work. They'll find a way, I'm sure. I think he'll fit in perfectly, but depends on who they're able to keep around, you know, obviously with the cap and who they'd have to trade and get rid of. I'll say he's the type of guy that changes the franchise. The impact that he has on the franchise is unbelievable. But for him, not just us, but any team where they have, you know, good coaching or a good organization or, you know, good surrounding or good foundation, I think we'll be able to take him in and win a lot of games and also be a contender. But he himself can make any team a contender. It's a being Spurs organization, obviously with POP. And, you know, depending on who they're able to keep, they can still keep Kawhi and L.A. those foundational pieces. It would be interesting to see, I'm sure. Could you see him? Like, could he get yelled at by POP and take that? I don't know. Last time I played with Ronnie was, you know, seven, eight years ago, you know, my rookie year. I'm sure he can. Being over in Miami with Pat Riley, I'm sure he's able to. I'm sure he can adapt and adjust, but I'm sure also the coach staff will adapt and adjust to him. Yeah. He wasn't getting yelled at back then in 2012? Not so much. You know, Mike Brown, he yells, but not too much. Not as many as the players either. He didn't really yell at anybody. Mike Brown was an encourager. He was a guy that kind of, you know, positive energy, positive vibes, but, you know, he didn't really do a lot of cussing people out and yelling at people. Do you have a take on who's the greatest of all time, the GOAT? Michael Jordan. I mean, I'm a little biased as well, but growing up watching him, you know, I was a kid, obviously watching the game now, it's a little different. You know, the game back then is different, but growing up watching him and how he used to take over games and him being a Carolina alum, you know, obviously. Did you get to meeting? No, because you went to UNC? I met him there at Carolina once or twice and then outside of that as well, but, you know, we got to meet him. He came back for a couple of events. Would he ever play with you guys? No, at that point, he's still, he was kind of old at that point. Yeah, so, no, he didn't play at that point. Do you have a top five players of all time? Oh man, yeah. I guess I could list off a couple of names for you. Obviously, Mike, I think Kareem would have to be in there, Bill Russell. I guess I could put Brian in there in the top five. I think when it's all said and done, he'll probably be in the top five. And then, you know, it's a toss up for that fifth one. I mean, I never was a Kobe fan, but playing against him, you had to respect him and see what he had done and how many rings. But, you know, you're Kobe or Magic, one of those two guys is tough. Who was the toughest guy? Let's throw a big in there. Shaq has definitely got to be in my top five. He was so dominant. You know, the way he just moved people. It was hard. You had to change your whole offense and defense just for him. You know, teams had to change everything for one guy. Like, I'm not saying people don't do that now, but two or three guys that guard Shaq, he was just a force that I've never seen before. I don't think many people have seen before. Who was the toughest guy for you to guard? Or is, maybe? There's a lot of guys. There's different ways of guarding them that are tough. Obviously, Kevin Durant, he's 6'11 and moves like a point guard. You know, you can shoot and you can't block a shot. So, there's many different guys that are very hard to guard. He's one of them. You know, and even guys that run off a bunch of screens, like a JJ Redick, Kyle Corver, Ray Allen, you got to chase them on four and five screens. And those screens are seven footers, you know, 207 pounds, and they're hitting you. And it's hard to get to them, hard to chase them, hard to, you know, fight through those screens. But everybody's, you know, tough to guard in different ways. But I think for me, it was always the guys that are bigger than me that can shoot the ball and handle the ball. So. Now you didn't mention Tim, Duncan. Yeah, I did. Well, is he underrated? You feel about people in general? For sure. It's hard to put top five, you know, I think it'd be top five, you know, guards, top five bigs. Obviously, Timmy is, you know, top five all the time for me. So it's power 40 is number one for me. But I think he was underrated because, you know, when people look at players, they look at, you know, scoring, you know, rebounds and what'd you do, you know, offensively and, you know, winning. A lot of that winning, you know, from Timmy wasn't just what he did offensively. He was probably the best passing big I ever seen and defensively he's underrated. Even when he was older and couldn't jump, he had one leg, you know, he would, you know, and we realized that when he left, because that paint presence is not there, even though he's not, you know, jumping above the square and blocking shots, he's still altered a lot of shots, blocked a lot of shots and was crafty with getting rebounds and just certain reads, you know, his IQ defensively and said I would easily get, you know, four to six points a game just off him, finding me, you know, cutting through the lane, you know, passing, because how good he was, he'll take a risk and throw that pass, but he was very good at it and he was just underrated as a teammate. You know, obviously he was great offensively to score. Obviously, you know, he was bang shot and, you know, do all the little things. But as a screener, he would screen guys and get so many people, he got me open so much and find me and pass in for a guy that's the greatest, powerful old time to try to get me open, you know, says a lot about him. What, what's something that would surprise people about Tim Duncan? About Timmy? Because I don't think people really have a, you know, they just think he's quiet. People think he's quiet. He's not quiet. He's not quiet? No, he talks, man, and he has jokes. He's a very sarcastic guy and pretty funny, you know. He is into many different things. I heard he used to have a paintball. He does paintball guns. He does that, he does karate or whatever he's into. Oh, he did martial arts? He does all that stuff. He's into boxing. He's into a lot of different things. He's into, you know, cars. I was in Texas, we have guns. So, you know, that's where paintball comes from. But, you know. Did y'all ever do that as a team? We did. At the end of the year, when we did paintball and he lit me up pretty, pretty good. I didn't want to go back again. That hurts, I heard. It does. Really? Especially at close range. Paintballs, they hurt. So, what are you and, what are some of your hobbies outside of basketball? And I'm a pretty simple guy. I mean, I like to travel. Even though we travel a lot during the year, I'm trying to see as many places as I can. Really? Like, islands or just... Everywhere. Other countries, islands. I try to go to the country at least once or twice this summer and see different cultures, experience different views, foods, all that stuff. But, I'm pretty simple. I like, you know, food, sleep, you know. You say simple, but you got this huge snake, don't you? Yeah, well, I like animals. It's not just snakes. I like all animals. I grew up in a household. My grandma, she had all types of animals come through her household. So, the reason why I got the snake is because I didn't have time for any other animals when I was wanting a pet. I wanted a pet. So, I was in college when I got her and I didn't have time for a dog. You weren't allowed to have dogs in dorm rooms or wherever you're living. Or, now I have two dogs as well, but, you know, I got her then. My uncle had one, so. Wow, what kind of snake is it? It's a Colombian boa. She's a, I guess it's a red tail. So, it must be huge. She's big now, but she was small. I got her from Pekko. She was really small. Now, she's about eight feet. Wow. So, you'll have her around your neck and. It's something that you take her out, but usually they tell you not to put her around your neck as much, because, you know. But, you know, I hang out with her here. Not as much as I used to when she was younger. So, I have the dogs now, but they're just low maintenance. They're very easy. All they need is water and heat, and you feed them once a month. You know, when they're younger, probably once a week, but now she eats once every two months, once every a month and a half. What's popping your teammates think about the snake? Some of them, it's 50-50 with most people. Some of them are very interested to see. Some of them will, like, get that thing away from them. You know, Mano's actually brought his kids over to watch her feeding one time, because they're so interested in animals and snakes now too. They do a lot of, you know, geographical stuff. And, sometimes, when they travel and also watch a lot of TV, animal planets. So, they wanted to see one live. And actually, before I got rid of the other one, I had two. I had a smaller one. His youngest son was wanted to see it. So, he brought all the kids over and they watched a feeding, which was interesting for them. Well, Danny, man, I appreciate your time. Appreciate you, man. It's been great, man. Good luck the rest of the way. Thank you, we need it. I've learned. I've always said, I was counting y'all out. I think even before you were with us first. For sure, for sure. I was saying they're old and Duncan's old. They were old when I got here. Yeah, it's just amazing, man. And he's still like, he played with them for, like, six, seven years. The teams were retired two years ago. I don't know when he's retired now. This is your five-in, so. Yeah, yeah. So good luck, man. And I hope y'all get Kauai back too, because it was really. It would be nice. It would be nice. So, we're planning to move without him. I think either way, I think we're still a dangerous team that could be a wild card. Yeah, yeah. All right, man. Yeah, appreciate it. All right, here we go with another segment. One of my favorite parts of the podcast, my man, J-Bat, I wouldn't go that far, but it's in the top three. How about that, all right? My man, Jason McIntyre, is here. You're good to have you as always on knockdown, Jay. What you got for me? Well, more of my Tiger Woods red this week. He's going to the Masters. Yes, I hope he does better than you will do in this segment. Let's, speaking of red, let's go to the Houston Rockets. And your guy, James Harden, you've been gassing him up all year. Great player. You know, LeBron's slowly getting into the MVP debate again. I don't believe James Harden should be the unanimous MVP. We've only seen one in NBA history. Steph Curry a few years ago, who was ridiculously good off the charts. Listen, Harden's been great, but Chris, when you look at his numbers this year, they're not that much better than last year. And last year, I had him as the MVP over Westbrook. You and your love for Westbrook, I get. I think LeBron's going to take a lot of votes, and I don't think Harden's going to be anywhere near unanimous. Yeah, I think that's the only question is, we know Harden's going to win the MVP. The question is, will it be? Oh, 100% sure. There's no question. It's over. It's over. The question is, will he be unanimous? You don't think recency bias plays into the voters' minds? Has Harden started struggling? No, but LeBron's been better since the All-Star break than James Harden, and he's had a brand new team basically around him. I don't know that he's been better. No head coach, no Kevin Love. Why has he been better since the All-Star break? I mean, do you want to go through the triple doubles where he, an entire month where he averaged a triple double without Kevin Love? His head coach is now gone and he's still top four in the East? What he's done has been remarkable. Still top four in the East? Yeah. The Netherlands should never be anywhere near fall when you lose Kairi Irving. You replaced it with the damaged goods in Isaiah Thomas. You got Rodney Hood, Jordan Clarkson, George Hill, and Larry Nance Jr. How many All-Star games combined for those dudes? They're not as good as Kairi Irving individually, but combined, that's a pretty good pickup. I can't believe you're disrespecting LeBron, who's never played 82 games in a season. He's doing it basically to prove you and Jason Whitlock and others who knocked him last year. I didn't knock him last year. All right, fine. Maybe just Whitlock. And he's leading the league in a minute at 33 in his 15th year. Don't say it's a lock that hardens the MVP. It is a lock. He's got the inside check. It is an absolute lock. Fine, is he going to be unanimous? That's the only question. Should he be? Yes. Because I don't see how you make an argument for anybody else. This guy is the driving force behind the highest rated offense in the history of the NBA. Wait, is it James Harden or Mike Danton? It's James Harden. This guy, because how many jumpers did Mike Danton hit this year? Well, I don't know. He installed the entire offense. Oh, James Harden wasn't good before Mike Danton. Well, Mike Danton kind of did the same thing in Phoenix with Steve Natch. Did he not? James Harden should have won the MVP in 2015. The players voted James Harden the MVP in 2015. Who was the coach? Wait, who won the MVP that year? It wasn't Mike Danton. Oh, who won the MVP? Steph, Steph. But Harden's great point is that don't tell me Harden just got great when Mike Danton was there. He still was scoring a ton of points getting a lot of assists. He got an uptick when Danton he got there. No doubt about it. Because the system does that. But here's the thing. James Harden has a better P.E.R. more points per game than LeBron James. He is right there with LeBron and assists. They're both about the same. James Harden's actually down. Last year, 11 assists per game. This year only eight. Yeah, because he's sharing the point guard. And LeBron's averaging career high rebounds career high assists. Is LeBron sharing point guard duties with Chris Paul? He's sharing it with Jordan Clarkson, Jordan Till, Isaiah Thomas, like seven guys. He's not sharing it with anybody. Mr. Calderon. Don't forget about him. If Chris Paul were playing with LeBron, LeBron wouldn't average the assist. He's averaging easily. So you're saying every first place vote goes to James Harden, not one to LeBron. My point is, I don't know. Wow, he's a Ohio guy. I don't know how it'll be that. But my point is just this. I don't see how you argue that James Harden isn't MVP. If you're a voter, I don't know how you put somebody else's MVP ahead of James Harden. As I said, quarterback of the highest rated offense in history, quarterback of the best team in the league as far as record. Okay, well, wait a sec. Russell West, great last year, I believe, was sixth in the West. Because he averaged a triple double, which is something we had never seen since the 1962 season. That's why it was an aberration. It was a statistical anomaly. That's the only reason you can win it without winning a high number again. So who did you vote for last year? Westbrook. And your vote is going hard this year. Yeah, without question. What about the year Steph Curry was unanimous? You voted from that year, right? Steph Curry, yeah. I had to get in. I got a pump on Steph Curry, man. But I'm saying, how's that a jab at me? I like Steph Curry. It's not a jab at you. I just think Steph Curry's still. This is where you ruin your arguments. You do okay early, but then you just go. I'm a closer. You have nothing to say. No, you're not a closer. I was trying. You have nothing to say, and then you say something corny or just completely irrational. All right, fine. Let me give you this. Let me say this. Look, am I arguing that James Harden is having the season Steph Curry had when he averaged 30 points a game and they won 73 games and he was unanimous? No. No, I would hope not. What I am arguing is this. Steph Curry should not have been the first unanimous vote. It should have been Michael Jordan. Well, it could have been many players. Look, that's where you're, I think you and other people get caught up in there's only been one unanimous in history. Harden hasn't been as good as that. He already hasn't been as good as he was last year. But my point is this. Unanimous, you will see more unanimous MVPs in the future. And here's why. I don't know. Look, you can't tell me there's a year Michael Jordan should have been unanimous or LeBron James shouldn't have been unanimous or Kareem Abdul-Jabbar shouldn't have been unanimous. There are many years when that has changed in the mindset. This is what has changed. In back in the day, we didn't have as much information as we have now. Nowadays writers, you don't, if you're on the East Coast, you can still, you can watch every game. I can watch every team play. I can watch every player play. I see not only the normal statistics, traditional statistics, I can look at the analytics. I can read the articles from every beat writer for every team. Now I know more about players around the league than I ever could have known 15, 20 years ago. And so now we're back in the day, if you were an East Coast writer, you barely even saw the West Coast players other than when they came to your city. The statistical information wasn't as heavy. So you didn't know as much about all, you just knew their name, their stats were great, but you didn't know as much about their game. And I think because of the TV shows, like Undisputed and so on and so forth, because of 24 hours a day talk radio, there has become more of a consensus of what the MVP award is about. Chris, you say that and- Now people feel like you need a certain number of wins unless it's a statistical anomaly, like a triple double, and it's about your individual dominance and team wins. Okay, but that's the thing- Before that wasn't the case. Okay, that's a great argument, but it flies in the face of everything you said earlier. We gave it to Westbrook last year, he averaged a triple double. You don't need to read everything, you just look at the stats. This year, James Harden, number one offense. James Harden, the best player on the number one offense. Let's give it to him. So what you're saying doesn't jive with what your pick is, because if it's going with everything we're reading and everything we're seeing, to me, LeBron James has to be the MVP. He is having a career year at 33. He's not having a career year. Career high and assists, career high and rebounds. Average at 27. Yeah, those are career numbers. Then he does that every year. No, no, no, he's got a brand new team from last year. You're going to tell me one or two assists more and one or two rebounds more a game is changing. Well, when you lose to Spire Irving and then you trade six guys in February. His P.E.R. is not close to his career highs. It's impossible when you gut half your roster at the trade deadline. No, it's not. Sorry, fine. He wasn't good in January. That's a whole month where he wasn't good. He was the longest in a month of his career or second lowest, I would agree. Okay, so he's had a career year. As the team was imploding. Yeah, he had one bad month. Remember in December. That's not a career. LeBron James has had, most of LeBron James's career, he's never had a bad month. Leading into December, Christmas break, LeBron was one of the MVP candidates. Bad January and boom, February, March, he's right back at the top. But it was, did James Harden have a bad month? No, I think he's had a good, good year, but LeBron has been, LeBron was good, bad and amazing. Harden's not amazing. Last year, leading the league in scoring, leading your team to the highest rated offense of all time, leading your team to the best record in the league. Well, the Warriors have been around all year. By the way, the Warriors were number one in the West until everybody on the roster started getting hurt, so. Are they number one now? Everybody's hurt, everybody's hurt, Chris. All right, let's move on. There is no way James Harden is not the MVP. You heard Kevin Durant say it. You heard Kevin Durant, the authority on MVP. Let's move on. All right, next question, sticking in the East. You've gone on a lot of TV shows this week, pumping up the Sixers. They can get to the Easter Conference Finals. I don't think anybody would disagree with that. Against any team in the East, with the exception of the Cavs, they're gonna have the two best players on the floor. Kyrie Irving is hurt right now. What about Milwaukee? I would take Ben Simmons and Joel Embiid in a playoff series over Yannis right now. I know it's early, I would. Why? So I actually think. Why? Well, I love it. How are you gonna take, why would you take, Embiid's fine. Why would you, at this point, why would you take Ben Simmons over Yannis? I mean, I think. For this year. I would take him going forward. That's a fair statement. But for this year, why? That's a fair statement. Ben Simmons, by the way, a lot of rookies, you know, he's been Simmons 21 year rookie. Hit the rookie wall. We saw Lonzo kind of hit it. And they plowed through. Ben Simmons has gotten better as we've got. I mean, March, he was incredible. Okay, five triple doubles in the last 10 games. Career high, I know it's just one season. He averaged over 10 assists a game in March. Okay, he's gotten Dario Sarich better. Everybody seems to get better playing with Simmons. And, you know, again, we don't know what's gonna happen in his first playoffs, but I love, I would take Simmons over Yannis. At any rate, my point is, I don't know why you're stopping at the Eastern Conference Finals. I believe the Sixers. Let me give you two words, two words. One word. LeBron James. Yes, I think the Cavs will be favored. I would take the Cavs, but I think the Sixers can get to the NBA Finals this year. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. Listen, the Cleveland Cavaliers coach, we don't know what his status is. Tai Lu, you know, we're recording this on Tuesday. He'll be back Thursday. He's supposed to be back. We'll see. They've been hot without him. We would agree with that. Whether he's there or not, they're gonna be fine. Well, I mean, the game, the game before he left, LeBron was seen yelling at him on the bench in Portland. He wasn't yelling at him. I look at the East. Nobody scares me if, okay, sure. Nobody scares me in the East. The Sixers with the exceptional LeBron James. And we don't know, Kevin loves status. He's been touch and go. I think the Six, now I don't think they're feeling, I think the 76ers can get to the NBA Finals this year. Look, Cleveland is head and shoulders above everybody else in the East. When it comes playoff time, you will see that. Now I'm with you. I love Philadelphia. I think they are the team going forward. I think if I'm LeBron James and I'm leaving Cleveland, if I leave Cleveland, I love to see him stay. If he leaves Cleveland, he should go to Philadelphia. Ooh, if you wanna win, if it's about winning. But right now, I think the Sixers are too young to get to the Finals, okay? Now it's happened in history. Shaq and Penny were young. Shaq and Penny, yes. But as much as I like Joel Embi, he's not Shaquille O'Neal. Shaquille O'Neal was giving you 29 points a game, 13 rebounds back then. He was wildly athletic. I mean, he was a different animal. Jordan, and now let's be clear, that was one of the years Jordan. And even Ben Simmons, as great as Ben Simmons is right now, he's not as good as Penny Hardaway was at that stage. Penny had some college years under his belt. Penny was phenomenal. But the parallels are the East back then was weak. Michael Jordan only came back for the half the season, remember? Jordan was running himself. Right, so the East was down. But LeBron's himself. This East is very weak. Right now, again, we're on to the, their path. I'm with you in that they could beat anybody else in the East. They can't beat Cleveland. Okay, let me just go through the path to the Finals. They would have to beat, as of today, the Pacers, they don't scare me. Oh, the Depot, amazing. Hold on, here's, if Embiid isn't back, they can lose to the Pacers. That's a big if, but we anticipate him coming back. Hopefully. The Toronto Raptors, good. We know about their playoff utility. Again, Simmons and Embiid on the court at the same time are better than anybody Toronto can trot out. And then Cavs in the Finals. We'll see if they have home court advantage. Philadelphia. Even if they don't, they're gonna beat Philadelphia. Okay. LeBron James is not gonna lose to a rookie and another guy who is Embiid, essentially a rookie in the playoffs. That is not happening. That's why you can't beat them, but you're 100% sure LeBron should go play with those young guys next year if he leaves Cleveland. Well, if he's talking out of both sides, how am I talking out of both sides? They got no shot to beat Cleveland, but yeah, LeBron, you should consider going there. Come on, what is that? How are those related? I don't think you understand that they have no chance to beat Cleveland. None, none. Other than just anything can happen, logic. Which things do. I mean, the Golden State Warriors lost in the first round with Steph and Clay to the Clippers, 4-3. The next year they win 67 games and go to the Finals. They went from crawling to sprinting and winning a championship. It can happen. Philly hasn't even crawled yet. They're crawling now. No, but they haven't crawled in a season's fire to this. They never made the playoff. Well, J.J. Redick is on the roster. We know he knows a bit about the playoffs. Markel Fultz is back. Maybe he'll be a little healthier. He is a rookie, but I just don't see. I love Philadelphia. I think they can get to the Eastern Conference Finals. They cannot beat the Cavaliers. No, sir, okay. No, and that has, and how that means that LeBron should not go there means that's totally illogical, okay? If LeBron James leaves Cleveland, say they get to the Finals, they beat Philadelphia in the Conference Finals, and he gets to the NBA Finals loses and he wants to leave, why shouldn't he go to Philadelphia? Well, then we get into the whole injury history with Fultz and Embiid and Simmons. Everybody getting hurt every year. Well, Fultz, I don't even need Markel Fultz to be a great team. Let's just keep LeBron going to the Lakers, okay? So I can look like a prophet when we get there. You won't. All right, let's go. No, I said it first. In last June, you can look it up on Cowherd Show. All right, let's close on this one. The biggest story in the NBA, the San Antonio Spurs. Obviously, Kauai Leonard's not playing. We haven't heard anything from Kauai Leonard. Now you obviously are a connected NBA reporter. Maybe you've talked to some folks. Chris, I don't know that this falls into the debate category, but to me, this is irreparable damage, okay? You can't go into this off season and offer a guy who hasn't played at all a Supermax when your training staff has been saying for months he's healthy and his staff saying, no, I'm not healthy. So if the Spurs aren't gonna offer him the Supermax, he's gone, you're not sticking around if they're not offering you the Supermax. I think this relationship is damaged beyond repair. I think it's over for Kauai and San Antonio. Well, in talking to people on his side, it's not irreparably damaged. They're a little bit baffled actually because their communication with the Spurs has been great. When he told them in January that he was going to get a second opinion after he played the nine games and still played the pain, they didn't do it in secret. They told the Spurs, the Spurs sent people with him to get the second opinion. Every time he's been in New York training, the Spurs have had trainers with him, including this past week. They've been completely on the up and up with the Spurs and when they talk to the Spurs, when they see them, it's all good. Like they're, you know, PapaVitch, the coaching staff, the management, they feel like it's all good. Then when they see anonymous leaks, anonymous sources in stories, and they know their side is not saying it, that's where they're like, what is going on? That's what's a little baffling to them. Now, I talked, as you heard on the interview I did with Danny Green, he said that meeting with the players was the players, nobody went at Kauai, nobody accused him of being soft or even implied that. They were just trying to find out what the deal is. Which is understandable, I mean Tony Parker's out here saying, hey, we play three on three, four on four, he looks great, he's fine, what's the hold up? Like, that's where we are with this. It's like, how is a team and PapaVitch willing to go to the media and throw their hands up, yet they're like, hey, Kauai, how are you? There's something wrong here, man. I don't think throwing your, like, look, Parker's words were harsh. Manu Ginoblis weren't harsh. Manu Ginoblis were reality. After that meeting, and people didn't know about the meeting when Manu's stuff came out, so I was like, whoa, what's this about? But I'm saying his mentality was just the mentality any athlete should have. The Calvary's not coming to save us. The 12 guys we have in this locker room on the roster are the guys that are gonna have to play. And if we're gonna win, it's gonna be with us. Now if Kauai comes back, great. But we can't be sitting around thinking, that's all right, Kauai's coming back. He'll be better when he gets back. You can't win that way. So I thought what Manu said made a ton of sense. But these guys have been with him for six years. It's his seventh year in the league, right? Yeah. He's been injured a little bit every single year. Never played 75 games. At some point it's like, dude, is this guy brittle? Is this guy soft? Do we not want to play? Like, if you've been with someone six years on the same team, in the same locker room, you kind of know if they're a little soft or not. I don't think anybody's accusing him of being soft. I would hope he's not. You know, I mean, physically, he's one of the toughest, most imposing guys in the league for that size. So I don't think anybody's thinking he's soft. He is a guy that wants to be Kauai when he steps on the court. And that's been from the beginning. He's never liked to play through nagging injuries, through pain, and so that's something. Now, I'm with you. If I'm the Spurs, as much as I love Kauai, and as great as I think he is, I would be hesitant to offer that Super Max just because of the injury history, particularly this year, because their doctors have been telling you he can play and he's not playing, even though his doctors are saying no. So I get where he's coming from and I'm with him on that. Remember how we did that role play one time where I pretended to be LeBron? Do you or Dan Gilbert? So I'm Kauai, and you are RC. No, I want to be Kauai. Okay, I'll be RC Buford. And this guy can be Popovich's pretend guy. You're coming in for the meeting. Hey, Kauai, good to see you, man. How's the quad? He's good. I'm feeling better. You know, I'm just working through it. Still got a little bit of pain, not quite ready, but you know. Still, huh? Still got the pain? Yeah. Okay. All right, so Kauai, we know... You getting smart, RC? Nah, nah. We good, we good. So July 1st... All right. I ain't think so. July 1st is coming up. And you know, we've talked with the ownership here in the front office. July 1st, hold on. Let's back time out from the skit. Did I play in the playoffs? So obviously I didn't play in the playoffs. No, you didn't. Okay, I didn't play in the playoffs. You sat out injured. Okay. Well, hold on. You say that, my doctors have not cleared me. Let's move on, Kauai. So July 1st is coming up and you know, in deep discussions here, we love you as a player. You're a franchise player. We can build around you. I'm sorry. We cannot offer you the Super Max, 217, 219 million, whatever the number is. Just because of injury concerns. You know, you've been here seven years, injuries every year. This past year was very bad. And we can't... We do want you with the organization. We love you. We respect you. We want you healthy back next year, but we can't offer the Super Max. Why not? Well, I just kind of laid it out there, Kauai. If I'm injured, if I'm injured, I shouldn't be playing. It seems to me we have a little disagreement here. Our coaching staff and our training staff said you've been healthy for months. You played three on three with our guys. You played four on four with our guys. You look great. We really wanted you back this year. And you know, you couldn't... We'll come back. We understand. Have you talked to my doctors? Yeah, we have a good open relationship. Okay, did they clear me to play to you? No. So maybe we should get a third group of doctors to take our guys out and your guys out and we'll get another doctor. See, here's my thinking, NBA doctors, they have a vested interest in getting players on the court. Obviously. Whether ready or not. We could have won a title with you this year. Yeah, but my health is more important because my long-term career, this is my career. You know, Isaiah Thomas, the Boston Celtics doctors cleared him to play on his hip last year. That's unfortunate. And we saw it, right? So he shouldn't have been playing, but he was cleared, okay? He went and got a second opinion and then he ended up getting surgery, okay? Kyrie Irving, the Celtics had him cleared to play, but he decided to go get a second opinion and then he had surgery. But Kawhi, you've been getting second opinion. Let me keep going. Let me keep going. You know what I mean? Clear me. Grant Hill. Remember Grant Hill? Oh, such an unfortunate story. Yeah. Okay. Here's the thing about Grant Hill. When he was in Detroit, had a bad ankle, the doctors on the piston staff cleared him to play. Hold on. You're making great points, Kawhi. You've done some homework. Let me finish. You did more homework than you did at San Diego State. Let me finish. No, I'm joking. That's a joke. You're saying that? Look, Grant Hill was cleared to play by the doctors in Detroit. We saw how that it ruined his NBA career, ruined it. I know. Now, is that what you want from me? No. You want me to be the best Kawhi I can be, right? Correct. So that's all I want as well. So when the doctors clear me, these doctors, not a team doctor, because as I've pointed out, team doctors can make mistakes. They have an interest in that. I trust these doctors. How about this? And once they clear me, you will get 110% Kawhi Leonard. And just like I did in 2014, and I led this team to a title by winning finals MVP, I will do that again. Wait, no, no, no. But show me the money. Tim Duncan ain't walking through that door. So Kawhi. Tim Duncan was a shell of himself. He was still Tim Duncan. You know that. You don't trust our doctors. We've got our issues with your guys. How don't we get a third independent party and we'll look at it? You up for that? Now, I mean, it's a little bit too late because we got bounced in the second round by a bad Houston Rockets team. But that's neither here nor there. It's a little late for that. We just, are you going to be cool with getting a little less than the Supermax? Let's see what's on the table. See what's on the table. Okay. You know, I'm a humble guy. Oh, that is great to know. Okay, so we can get through this. I like it here with the Spurs. I like the organization. I know we can win here. So you're not going to pull Al Horford or Chris Paul and say, oh, you didn't give me that max money. I'm out. So you don't want us to trade you to Cleveland or anything like that. You don't want to play with LeBron. I love being here with the Spurs. I love being, you know, this is now my team. Now that Tim is gone, well, I think we got some great young player. I love Dijonté. He's my best friend on the team. He and Rudy Gay. So, you know, I love Rudy Gay's coming back. Well, I would suggest you bring Rudy back. Thank you for that input, Kawhi. I would suggest you quad. I got one year left on my deal. So I would suggest you do that. All right. Great talking, Kawhi. I'm not definitely out, but it better not be too far below the max. I ain't mad at you, Kawhi. It's all good. All right. Good job, Jay Mack. We didn't judge. We didn't grade these. We got back next week so I could beat you again. Have you ever beaten me? I think every week. What? I mean, in the towel. We used the YouTube comments. We don't use no official score here, man. You replace them with a heartbeat if they don't back you up. When people compete, you typically keep score. Like when we play one-on-one? We never play. When we play. Oh, you going to play me? You challenging me to one-on-one? Why not? I've never played a college basketball player one-on-one. Well, I'm a former college basketball player. Let's do it. All right. You think you can beat me one-on-one? I'm not a good one-on-one player. I think I can hold my own, yeah. Why? What in the world? I played in college. You didn't play in junior high. Didn't play high school. College. YBA. I was an intramural champ, but that doesn't count. That doesn't count. You're right. That doesn't mean anything. What makes you think a guy that never played organized basketball in his life and a guy that, you know, what is this? You leave me up and you beat me and it's so disrespectful. I'm not even friendly. It's right here. It's right here. My heart, great college, will never outwork me, Chris Bousard. What can you do? What's your skill? We're going to see on the court. Can you shoot? I'm not giving you my scouting important. You've got nothing on me. I got tape on you. I looked up your highlights on YouTube. I know your weaknesses. I know what your tendencies. What am I with you? I'm a student of the game, Chris Bousard. We will discuss that later. Can you shoot? Look at you. There's no, you can't. I'm sorry. I just don't. I do not believe you can hold. Keep it disrespectful. I don't know. I just don't. There's nothing about you that says Hooper. David? I know. David versus Goliath. There we go. I'm a little David. I'll roll up there. We'll have fun. Look, there's nothing about your demeanor, your look. You know, they said that about Kauai Lennon too. Your gear that tells me you can hoop and then talking to guys that have played with you. There's nothing I've heard to tell me you can hoop. So you're one of those guys who shows up all geared up, look with the elbow sleeve. You're one of those guys. No, no. Definitely. I'm not worried now. Last time you went to a Laker game, what'd you wear? I just wore a jersey. We're hats of fame. A jersey with cut off, with the sleeves. Thumbs out, guns out. I mean, come on. Yeah. Who does that? If you beat me in one-on-one, I will never play basketball. One that we can't play. I don't want you to retire. I will never play in a league again. I have to shut you out or what? Just beat you. I don't want to be on a buzzer beater or whatever. A 30-foot heave. If you keep talking, I'll shut you out. I'll shut you out. I don't think I'll be shut out. If we went to five, I would definitely shut you out because I'm not in good shape. If you got both first, maybe you couldn't. I might. But if you miss and I get a rebound, it lights out. You're kind of old too though. You're older than you look. Anyways, hey guys, thanks for having me on. If you're about it, I will shut you out because you ain't a young chicken. You're in the spring chicken. Anyway, I've enjoyed this. This was a lot of fun. I'm going to enjoy spanking you in one-on-one. Good job. As always, you played a good punching bag, but there you have it. Knock Down Jay. Hope you enjoyed this podcast. Danny Green was tremendous. Knock Down Jay was as usual a lot of fun and the top five coaches of all time. No disagreement for me on that by the way. Phil Jackson number one. All right. All right. Well, look, go to iTunes, Apple Podcasts and SoundCloud, leave us five stars, give us a great comment, and of course, subscribe. We'll see you next week. We got a great interview for you next week. I'm not going to give it away, but it's a hall of fame. Oh. So you want to check that out. Peace from Jason McIntyre and Chris Broussard in the zone.