 Hello. Welcome. Hi, I'm Lynn Brockington, Community Experience Coordinator at the West Vancouver Memorial Library. Welcome to the second in our series of virtual gardening talks. Today I'm pleased to have with us Andrea Bellamy to talk about growing food gardens in containers. Andrea Bellamy is the author of Small Space Vegetable Gardens, growing great edibles in containers, raised beds and small plots. She has a BA in English from the University of Victoria and a certificate in garden design from the University of BC. Andrea has written about gardening for a variety of magazines and publications and was the garden columnist for Edible Vancouver for several years, winning a silver award of achievement from the Garden Writers Association. Andrea lives in Vancouver with her husband and children, where she grows a wide range of organic edibles, along with blooms for small patch flowers. The social enterprise started in 2019. So in the webinar today, Andrea will talk for about 45 minutes and then she will answer questions. If you have a question, please type it into the Q&A box. Okay, thank you. So I'm going to... Hello Andrea. Hi. Hey, great to see you. Good. Hi. I'm going to mute myself and turn off my video and just let you take it from here. Okay. Wonderful. Thanks Lynn. Good afternoon everyone and welcome to my bike shed where I'm broadcasting live from East Vancouver. Today we are talking about growing food in containers. So just think about this as a kind of container edible gardening class 101. We're going to talk about everything you need to get a container garden started from choosing a container and soil and the plants to maximizing a yield and just having some fun with it. If you're a beginner gardener, I hope I've got lots to share with you all the way through to if this is your 10th or 15th year gardening. I'm not just going to cover edible or containers as well. I will talk about maximize space and all kinds of gardens because let's face it, we can always use a little bit more productivity from our gardens. So let's dig in. So the reason I got started with container gardening is that it was my only option. I had a variety of condos and townhouses in Vancouver and didn't have any garden space other than what I could create by trucking in soil and growing in containers. So it was pretty much my only option if I wanted to grow anything. Now this is such a gloomy apocalyptic looking photo, but this is my backyard currently, although right now it's decorated with a slip and slide and it's much more sunny than this. I have a lot more space. It's still a small space. It's an urban backyard, but it's huge compared to what I have had. This is my dedicated veggie patch you're looking at, but there's other areas where edibles make an appearance throughout the garden. So you might ask, if I've got all this space, why garden in containers at all? So even though I now have the option of growing in the ground, there are still instances when I will choose to grow in containers and why I think you might want to consider it. So the first is convenience. Containers can be moved wherever you would like them to be, and that might be along the path out to your garage. So you pass them frequently and can maintain them and enjoy them, or it can be outside your kitchen window or back door. So you can situate them where it works best for you. I also love that containers are portable, whether or not they've got casters on them like this planter. But that can be really convenient for moving things around to either bring focus to that container. So say you've got a lovely little lettuce patch and that's kind of petering out now that the heat has started, and you want to kind of bring something else more into the front of your display. So you can move that container that's on its way out to the back and bring focus to something more attractive. I also, using the lettuce example again, like that we can move containers around to suit the plants that are in them. So again, you may have started some greens earlier this spring, but find that they might be suffering when the heat hits. Maybe you're noticing some brown spots on the leaves or some sun's gold, and you think it might be better in part shade and it probably would be. So you can move that container if it's small enough or portable enough into a more beneficial situation for the plants that are in it. So the other reason I like containers that you basically never have to do this, weeds are pretty much non-existent. You also don't really need that many tools. Like the only reason you would need this many rakes in a container garden is for a cute little display like this. I also love that containers allow you to get around any issues that you might have with your existing soil in the ground. So the native soil might be all boggy or full of clay or even polluted. You can bring in your own perfectly customized soil blend that's ideal for growing. You can also get around soil-borne diseases. So if you've had rust, for example, on your garlic, you can get around that by growing your garlic in containers in clean, hotting soil. I also love that containers allow you to customize the soil that you're growing in. So for example, carrots like a really loose, sandy soil so that they can develop their roots. And you might not think containers would be good for that, but if you've got a deep enough container, you can fill it with really light, fluffy sandy soil that container that carrots will really enjoy and be able to develop long, strong roots. As a bonus, you can just tip the container over when you're ready to harvest. I also love that you can create perfect soil even where there isn't any. So say you've got a parking pad like this backyard here. You can bring in soil and you can create a garden where there might not be any in the ground. You also can take advantage of vertical space. So growing up on walls or planters, using hanging baskets, it allows you to maximize your space by growing up. Even when space isn't at a premium, I love the design element that a container can offer. So it creates a focal point in the garden. This container that I'm showing here, I guess the nasturtiums are edible, but I don't even think the rest of it is. But it's in a vegetable garden and I love how the rusty iron of the pot is playing off of the blue-green of the lassenato kale in the foreground. So it can add a nice decorative element. I also really like that containers allow us to grow some things that may be not hardy or borderline hardy in our region, such as rosemary, which can suffer if it drops to minus 10, or trees like citrus or bay. This is a Meyer lemon that I have growing on my window cell. And the bonus is that, yes, you can bring it inside. It doesn't have to be to your living room, but into an unheated garage or a greenhouse or any area basement where you can protect that marginal plant over the winter. The bonus sometimes is being able to enjoy these plants throughout the winter, like getting lemon blossoms in your living room, which just smell amazing. This is just a gratuitous photo so I can show lemon blossoms. But it's not all sunshine and lemon blossoms or roses. There are some hurdles and probably the biggest one is watering. Containers dry out so quickly in the summer when we don't get much natural rainfall. So I will say more about watering, but just for now I'll say that expect it to be a hurdle and plan for it. And I'll talk about how to do that in just a few minutes. Containers require more fertilizing. Plants don't have the same soil, either the soil, the natural organisms occurring in soil in the garden, or just the amount of soil to be able to draw nutrients from. So let's be prepared to feed them more frequently. And again, I'll say more about how to do that when I talk about maintaining a container garden. Something to consider. Containers limit plant choice. You're not going to be growing corn. You can grow almost anything, including small trees and containers, but you have to consider just how big that container is going to be. And it's not going to be portable if it's a huge container, for example. Some plants, especially large, long-lived perennials like rhubarb or asparagus, aren't really suited to containers and they're better off in the ground or corn. Containers don't protect plants as much as the soil grown plants. So if you're growing perennials, something that will live year after year, this is something to consider, especially with things like rosemary, which can be damaged by a really, really cold winter. Containers just don't offer the same insulation as the ground does. So something to be aware of when you're choosing a plant that you want to live more than one season. So if you consider, you've decided, yes, I'm going to grow something in a container. Which are the best materials? So let's just talk about that in general. In general, bigger is better. You see some really cute little decorative containers. But think about how much you're going to have to water those in order to keep that plant healthy. It doesn't have a lot to draw from. And plants will be happier. You'll be happier because you won't be watering as often. But some specific container materials, terracotta. This is a classic container choice. In this particular container, I'll just highlight this plant that's growing. It's a dwarf raspberry. So you can grow raspberries in containers. Look for dwarf varieties. This one is a brasil berry, I believe. So terracotta is an inexpensive container choice. You can find it pretty much everywhere. It's pretty attractive. It's got that classic Italian look or Mediterranean look. It's porous, so it has good air circulation, which is important for container grown plants. I find that Mediterranean herbs love terracotta and other plants that appreciate dry conditions. Not dry conditions, but don't enjoy being waterlogged. On the downside, because it is porous, terracotta dries out quickly, and the containers are not considered winter hardy. So if they absorb all our winter rain and then we get a hard freeze, often they will actually crack. So you have to be careful if you're deciding to leave them out over the winter. Glazed ceramic is one of my personal favorites. It's probably my favorite container choice myself. I just love the bright colors and the glossiness. I think they add a really nice focal point for the garden. They come in a huge range of colors and styles. There's something for everyone. Depending on the temperature at which it was fired, it may or may not survive a cold winter freeze, but in general, I find them pretty good. The Vietnamese made ceramics are considered to be the best quality. On the downside, they can be very heavy, especially when they're full of soil. Wood, I mean classic West Coast choice. There's a huge range of styles depending on how it's finished. You can use rough reclaimed pallet wood for a kind of a rustic look or something more like this, which is more modern, smooth sanded and oiled for a little bit more modern. On the plus side, wood is infinitely customizable, fairly easy to do it yourself, and can be affordable. On the downside, wood, of course, can be heavy and doesn't last forever. However, I do find that using our cedar wood, untreated cedar, which is important when you're growing food, can really last for years and is very worth the investment. When we come to plastic, obviously plastic gets a bad rap these days, but there are some pros to it. It comes in a huge range of styles from something like this, which is unapologetically plastic, like this guy, to something that's pretending to be terracotta. Again, I'll mention this zucchini. This is a patio star zucchini. Again, something that you might not think that you can grow in a container, but actually can because it's a variety that's been developed for container growing. So plastic pluses, it's inexpensive, find it everywhere. It's really lightweight, which is nice, and it is pretty durable. Can be unattractive, of course, and over time it'll fade and crack, so it doesn't have that longevity. Fiberglass is becoming more available. In this photo, the fiberglass container is the one at the back holding sweet potatoes. I really like fiberglass as an option. There's some really modern choices. It has many of the benefits of plastic, but it is often better looking. So like plastic, it's lightweight, durable, but can be attractive. Over time, I do find, and I'm talking like 10 plus years, they do break down, and I've heard that they can melt, but I've never experienced that personally. Grow bags are coming more and more onto the market. There's a few different styles. So I'm using the term grow bag to describe a few different types. This type I'm showing here is made from a felt like breathable polypropylene fabric. This one is from a company called Woolly Pockets. The other kind, which seems to be popular in Britain, is basically like a bag of potting soil that you cut holes into and plant directly into it. So this is a high-end grow bag, and I think it's pretty decent looking. Then there's something like a mid-range type. These are potato-specific grow bags from West Coast Seeds. The cool thing about many of these is that they come with a flap at the bottom that you can unzip so that you can harvest new potatoes as they grow, just directly from the bottom. So the trick would be when the plant flowers, you know that that's when it's making the potato, and then you can start taking some of the small potatoes out. So that's pretty cool. And here's the bag of potting soil kind, which I don't have too much to say about, except maybe it might be cheap. So the pros to grow bags would be that they'd be easy to store for off-season storage or dispose of in the case of the bag of potting soil kind. At best, they're utilitarian. At worst, they're downright ugly, difficult to move once they've been filled with soil. And then just a word about bound objects. So here we have some old washbasins stacked up into a tiered planter, a feed bin, a woven shopping basket. So anything that holds soil can be a container for growing. Tin cans, these are IKEA garbage pails, a canoe, pickup truck. My sister once converted a Barbie Winnebago into a herb planter. So just think outside the pot, milk pails, vintage crates and buckets, child's bathtubs and whatever old soil you can use for your garden. I love that they can add a sense of uniqueness and whimsy and really using something unexpected. So downsides would be potential lack of drainage holes, which you might need to drill, need to refinish them in some way. So now just a shout out for raised beds. So something not really a container and not really in the ground, but probably better than both. Raised beds are great for those with mobility and back issues. They improve drainage because they're raised up. So if you've got some compacted soil underneath, you can put a raised bed on top and really get some good drainage for your garden. Also warms up more quickly in the spring. The other thing I'll note about this photo is that this was in our old townhouse. And this was an unused area that was just this really sad lawn. And it was the area right over our parking garage. And I asked our strata council if we could build some gardens there, which was approved. And then we had, I think, six families sharing these three beds. So just, you know, if you're looking for land, you don't have a lot of space to be creative and it doesn't hurt to ask. And sometimes you can get a great little project going out of it. So they can raise beds can be something quite basic like this, or you can do something quite snazzy and fancy stuff. And they can be quite beautiful as well. So you've chosen your container, you know what you're growing in. Now it's time to get ready to plant. Step one, the standard advice is always to clean your containers before your plant, before you plant. And I never do this. Well, I've, you know, got a full-time job and a month of two and everything else is going on. So cleaning my containers is usually at the bottom of my list. That said, I do clean the small plastic containers if I'm reusing them to start seeds in seedlings are prone to a fungal disease known as damping off. And that can persist in the containers. So I always make sure that I clean containers when I'm starting from seed. And that's just a quick rinse in a bucket with bleach and water solution. So the other thing you want to do before planting is make sure that your container has a drainage hole. If your pot doesn't have one, you can, if you're buying it new, you can ask the nursery to drill one for you. Or you can do it yourself with a drill bit and a ceramic drill and a ceramic bit. Then you want to think about your soil. So you've got two basic choices. A classic potting mix is basically a sterile growing medium. So it is designed to create great drainage, good air circulation and to provide like a place for the plant's roots to develop. It's not designed to provide a lot of nutrients. So the other option and what I always go with is a container mix that has an organic, has organic matter mixed into it. And you're finding these soil mixes ready to go from the nurseries more and more these days. It looks a little bit more than like the garden soil that we're used to, but it has additives that make it also work for containers. So something that improves drainage and air circulation. So either way, do not use regular garden soil. Like don't be going in digging up soil from your garden because that will end up being compacted and that probably has weed seeds and all kinds of things in it. So you're looking for something called container soil, which is designed to provide the drainage and air circulation that container grown plants need. I really like something called sea soil. The word escape me for a second. Sea soil potting mix. That's a good one. And BC made. So in short, great potting soil doesn't look like the black gold we strive for in our compost bins and are in our in-ground gardens. You're not looking for a ton of organic matter or worm can, which are native of those things. So the other thing I'd like to do before I plant, I've got my sea soil good quality potting mix. I will mix in some organic granular fertilizer. So something like, if you're seeing numbers like 2020, you know that that's a chemical fertilizer always grow organically. This is something that I'm going to be eating, feeding my family, you know, when we go to the store and we might have to choose between paying $2 for a cucumber or $5 for an organic cucumber. Sometimes it's a difficult choice to make, but if I'm growing it, I'm going to grow organically. It's, you know, it just makes sense to me. So I'm going to choose an organic fertilizer, something like 444, which has a balanced ratio of nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium, which are the three main nutrients that plants need for growth. Those granular fertilizers are slow release. So they will carry that plant throughout the growing season and provide a good base of nutrients. So moving on from soil, challenging locations or situations, we all have them. The first thing is sun or lack of sun. You've probably heard that the edibles need full sun to do well, which is kind of true. Some do for sure, but there are many, including leafy greens and berries and some root crops that actually do not so bad in part shade. I am going to share a link with you in the comments after it's to my blog where you will find what is normally a handout at these talks that provides a list of my favorite varieties for growing in containers. Each one that has tolerance for part shade is asterisk, so you can take a look at that and see which things will work if you've got a less than sunny location. So what is full sun, part sun, part shade? Most rooting vegetables, tomatoes, eggplants, peppers, zucchinis, those things that we are planting now, starting in June. Our main season crops are heat loving crops. Those are heat lovers. They want the full sun. They'll be happiest with upwards of six plus hours of direct sunlight daily as long as their water needs are met. If you're not watering them and they're still getting that much sun, they will not be happy. And that also goes through for the rest of our main season crops like beans or basil. You can see basil here in the foreground cavorting with cacti. And I also like this photo because it shows something which I would refer to as a micro climate, this gravel patio. You can bet that when the sun shines on that patio all day, it stores up the heat and it will release that heat over the night and those heat loving plants are just loving it. Yeah, so that's sunlight. Wind, this can be a factor on rooftop decks specifically, but also balconies. And wind can shred delicate leaves, knock over containers. So something that we want to create protection from. And the best way to do that is to create a wind break with a trellis and grow something up it. So maximizing that vertical space. And there's tons of things that you can grow like cucumbers or beans or peas or currents. Lots of tasty things that we can grow as a living screen. The other thing, I'll just mention again, wind. The other thing we can do is to mulch the surface of our containers. We'll do mulching in our in-ground gardens quite frequently, but we don't often think about doing it in containers. But what we can do is put mulch on top of our containers if wind is an issue. Because that will help prevent erosion and things from drying out. And grouping our containers together as well to create, to help create stability if you're in a really windy situation. So, one second here. Wait, so this is largely a problem for those growing on balconies and rooftops. So planters and people and barbecues and all kinds of things can add up to a pretty heavy load. If you're doing any really intensive gardening, I'd encourage you to probably check with an engineer or a builder to make sure your balcony is up to the task. But it doesn't hurt to reduce or disperse the load by choosing lightweight containers and by using hanging baskets and railing and wall-nanted planters to kind of take the weight off of the floor surface. There's really some fun things that you can do with hanging baskets and, you know, this one's got basil in it, but the tumbling tomatoes, those hanging basket tomatoes or some window boxes with varieties of herbs and lettuces and all kinds of fun things. So as I mentioned, watering is likely to be your biggest chore with a container gardening. So it's really important to make sure that you can have good access to a water. If you don't have access to a tap or a hose, really bad things can happen. I'm ashamed to say that this is my garden at one point. We moved into this townhouse and I was so gung-ho to get started and I, you know, just threw a few things in some containers and then I realized that to water them I needed to go to the down two sets of stairs to our main floor and then truck up and down. So that was fine in the spring when the natural rainfall was helping out, but then come summer I was like doing this like four or five times a day and I'm dedicated, but I was like, this is nuts. This is not happening. So the next year we installed drip irrigation and it was a life, like not even kidding, it was a life-changing experience. I'm still a huge advocate for drip irrigation and also in regular in-ground gardens as well. I love that you can install it and then put it on a timer and it takes care of the watering for you, which is great when you're going away on vacation, for example. It's great for a container. This type is like you can put each individual peg into a container or you can lay out housing. It's relatively inexpensive and easy to DIY and yeah, it's the best thing that I've done for my garden to date. You can also consider these cool self-watering containers or sub-irrigated containers as they're also known. You don't need an infinity pool. This one is a super high-end one, which is why it's all fancy looking, but here's a cutaway view. So what this does is they're not self-watering. You need to water. But what you're doing is you're filling the reservoir and depending on the size of that reservoir in the container, that can take you through a week. So it's reducing the amount of time that you need to be spending in the time watering. Back to the self-watering thing for a second. Or the irrigation. I will say that it's not perfect. You still do need to make sure that the tap, the drippers are hitting everything that you need to, but it certainly does help. So finally, you've got it all sorted out. You've got your location. You've got your watering sorted and your soil and your potatoes. It's finally time to plant. But what are you going to plant? So what do you love to eat? I spent many years growing radishes because they were, they're super easy. They're really quick to, like they are quick to mature. And then I realized I actually just don't like them. Why am I growing these? That's the wisdom that comes with age, right? So here's delicata squash, which I only discovered two years ago. And my childhood self would be dismayed to find out that I actually love squash. It's certainly not a small space crop, but I make room for it because I love it. And so I make it work. Like if we could grow cocoa tree or cacao trees here, I certainly would. So yeah, think of what you're really like, what you really love to eat. What's really something that you would love to grow. What's unusual? So she has something that rarities that you can't just find at the supermarket or are expensive. So unusual varieties such as purple peppers or rapini, heirloom tomatoes, here's an example of one, purple calabash I believe. Even heirloom tomatoes are becoming more popular even at mainstream grocery stores, but there's something really cool about growing yourself. Practically speaking, what will thrive in your space? So are you growing in part shade? Do you have a really hot south facing balcony? What is actually going to work for your space? I'm showing this photo. It doesn't show containers, but what I wanted to show you is this walking stick kale here. This thing here, this is a kale. It's called a walking stick kale. And I loved how enormous it had gotten. Obviously very happy there growing the super narrow shady strip behind this house. So just to show you that there is a plant for every, every place, every, every plant has the right place. And just choose for your situation. That said, there's some things that are easier to grow than others. Nothing is foolproof. I have killed so many plants. People always say, well, I'm not a gardener. I don't have a green thumb. Well, like it's, it's trial and error. There's a lot that I have killed and that I have learned from. But, you know, when I'm talking to beginners, there are some things that I find you do really well. Easy crops and things designed for container growing. So like not, not planting the, the corn in a container, for example, greens do really well. Beans are super easy to bush beans. Garlic as an easy one. Most of, most of our herbs, herbs are definitely a favorite for me. And what's going to produce most. So what will give me the most in my limited space, giving me the most, most bang for my back. So think about how much food you're going to be harvesting from each container and is it worth it? Like this container would hold, we're talking about cauliflower, for example, it would produce one head of cauliflower and then you'd harvest the cauliflower and you'd be done. But a plant like a tomato is going to keep producing these tomatoes and you'll get multiple fruits from each pot. So think about productivity as well. Think about whether, where this is going to be. Does it have to look good? Is this by my front door? Is it on my kitchen counter? Do I, is it purely functional or is it something that I also want to look good all season? So, which brings me to design essentials. So in a lot of ways, creating a great looking container, vegetable or edible container garden is similar to the principles we use for designing an ornamental garden. So we want to think about color and that can be through containers, foliage, flowers or fruit. And we often think about color combinations for ornamental gardens, why not for our edible gardens as well? This is a woolly pocket grow bag with a harmonious planting scheme, purples and greens, which are on the cool spectrum. Or we can do something, color contrast, a subtlety isn't your thing. The blue pot with the orange peppers. This is a tangerine green, orange pepper. So you can really make an impact that way too. So we want to think about texture, something we can think about as well that can be achieved through plants or through containers, so like rough wood or smooth glossy ceramic, the fuzziness of this Cuban oregano plant. Finally, let's think about form. So plants have such different shapes and shape can have a dramatic impact when we pay attention to it by repeating or contrasting shapes. So think about the varying form. So upright versus weeping, mounding versus vase shaped, because we can really combine those shapes for an interesting effect. Which brings me to a classic formula for choosing plants for ornamental container gardens. And I just want to explore how we can do that with our edible gardens as well. So one thing to consider is the rule of three or the using odd numbers. So if you're putting, you're combining plants in a container, go for one or three or five. It just has a more natural look. So you can just plant one container, plant per container and just vary the form. Or you can combine three or more plants per container. This is a great example of combining form, texture and color. So the formula I mentioned is called thriller, filler, spiller. And thrillers are the wow plant that you build a container around. It's generally something tall and upright, something with a bit of structure that will hold it shape throughout the season. Color would be a big bonus. And so I'll just name some of my favorite thrillers, Swiss chard, like how's that for texture? It's got these wonderful glossy crumpled leaves with jewel-toned stems. Swiss chard is one of the darlings of the ornamental edible world. I love eggplant. I love the dusty purple fruits and the big tropical looking leaves. Peppers. We saw peppers earlier as how they were a focal point. And here they're used more as a filler plant. But as you saw previously, they can also be a thriller. Kale, and not just ornamental kale as we see in the fall displays. Kale can be a really attractive plant. Woody perennial herbs like rosemary, which is here shown under planted with sweet elissum, which is a wonderful flowering plant, not edible, but a wonderful annual for attracting beneficial insects. Another thriller I love is our blueberries. This is a Brasselberry peach sorbet. Dwarf blueberry. It looks fantastic in a pot. They have another one called pink icing. What I really like about blueberries is that they have awesome fall color. In my garden here, this is the blueberry. And I just love that they have that almost like three seasons of interest. They've got flowers in spring, fruit in summer, and then this lovely fall foliage. I love that they have flowers in spring. I love that they have flowers in spring. You can also consider a tree like sweet bay. This is corkscrewed lollipop to bay tree. These are only hardy to minus six. So depending on what kind of winter we're having, they might need to be protected, but they definitely do make an impact. Or you can consider a dwarf fruit tree. So citrus, as I mentioned, apples do really make a big impact. So the fillers are your work horses. This is your mid height plant, something with a mounding habit usually, or perhaps with great texture color flowers. Most of our herbs fall into this category. This is a Siam Queen or Thai basil. I love chives with a little pom-pom heads. Parsley. I prefer Italian parsley for cooking, but I also like sage color and texture. It's an evergreen shrub. Love this one. It comes in many different colors and variations. It even has flowers that beneficial insects love. And it tastes fabulous with brown butter and pasta. Another more unusual filler might be something like a purple bush bean. That's another way to add some interesting color. Lettuces do really well in containers. You can look for a mix of lettuces to make it, take the work out of combining colors and textures for you. And then pansies or other edible flowers, like begonias or calendula, dianthus, signet marigolds. And I really just encourage you in general to interplant flowers throughout your vegetable garden. And not just edible ones, things that are going to attract those bees and butterflies and support our wild pollinators. Spillers. So these are your tragling or your creeping plant. I really like to plant dwarf peas. So these are peas that don't need staking. And I usually just tuck the plant, the seeds all around the edge of the container. And they kind of just trail down the side. And the pods are preceded by pretty white flowers. Not so super prolific that way, but it's a really neat way to introduce peas into a planting scheme. And peas are really good for soil too. Because they fix nitrogen from the air and add it into the soil. Strawberries. A great way to contain strawberries is by growing them in a pot and kind of keep their runners under check. Trailing the stir shums. The stir shum flowers and pods are edible. The trailing or a container specific tomato. And also sweet potatoes. So we've seen the ornamental sweet potatoes in the market for many years. And of course, like the edibles sweet potatoes, but this is a newer plant here. And I'm talking about this purple one. This is something that is just been introduced, I think, within the last couple of years. And it's designed as an ornamental sweet potato, but also with edible tubers. Once the container displays finished. So that was a lot. But let's carry on. You've chosen your plants. How do you keep them healthy? So watering regularly, obviously fertilizing every week, believe it or not with a liquid organic fertilizer. Liquid fertilizers are great for containers because they're fast acting and they are quickly available. So when we're watering our containers, especially every day in the summer, all those nutrients are getting leached out constantly. And we need to replace them. Otherwise the plant will suffer. I alternate week by week. Starting out with fish fertilizer in the spring. Fish fertilizer is high in nitrogen. And that will help with the leafy green growth. And then I started to, start mixing in some of the, some liquid kelp fertilizer, which is more balanced. And then I usually continue with liquid kelp when it comes to a point in the season where I don't want to encourage so much green, new green growth. And then of course, amending your soil annually. So if you're growing a perennial, the year after year at staying in the same pot, you do need to, um, to make sure that, um, soil stays healthy, which brings me to must I replace that soil, which is probably the number one question I get. Do we need to replace the soil in our pots every year? We hear that often. Um, so if you're growing annual, something that is only designed to last for one season, um, you're, what you were going to want to do is replace the soil, the soil, the soil, the soil, the, what you were going to want to do is replace the, take out some of the root ball or take out the root ball, um, and replenish the soil. You don't need to completely replace it unless there was a problem with disease or, um, yeah, disease. It would be the main reason to do that. Um, or if you had some sort of NC's weeds, somehow made it into that soil. Otherwise you're just refreshing it. You're just adding some, some fresh, uh, soil and some fertilizer and you're just, um, keeping that, that container ecosystem going. If you are growing a perennial such as a blueberry or a raspberry, um, rosemary oregano, something that's living year after year in the same pot, um, you can't replace the soil. But so what we're doing to do is top dress or mulch. So that's just adding like couple inches of, uh, good compost on top of that plant every year. You might want to sprinkle in a little bit of the granular organic fertilizer as well. Um, and just kind of top dressing it. Um, and that, those nutrients will make their way into the rest of the soil over the season. Do that at least once a year spring, um, or fall and or fall. So, um, maximizing your space. So whether you've got a small patio or a big backyard, you still want to get the most out of it. So I'd just like to share some small space gardening tips that you can apply to any garden no matter how, how large or small. Uh, the first concept is called succession planting. And it's a key small space gardening technique. I'm one of the best ways to increase the productivity of your garden. It allows you to harvest a sequence of plants from a single container or plot. So, um, Sorry, I've lost my train of thought. Um, yeah. So in the handout that I'll link to, um, there's a succession, uh, a section called container recipes and that kind of spells out some recipes for how we can, um, plant a cool season crop, main season crop, cool season crop. So succession planting is a concept that essentially, um, has us planting something in the cool season, which has now basically passed. We're just starting our warm season. So spring main season summer, which we're in now and then the fall. And that's just the idea is you plant these cool season crops in spring and then you swap them out with a transplant, say a tomato or a zucchini or something that will thrive in, in the heat of our summer. And then when that's petering out or we're coming to the end of that season, you're going to put in some cool season crops, uh, to get the most out of that container. So speaking of, uh, inter planting, um, inter planting means taking planting two or more varieties of plants together. So that one plant benefits the other, um, or taking advantage of plants that grow at different rates or depth. So for example, planting lettuce with tomatoes. Um, I often will plant my, um, lettuce, uh, from seed. And then when it's time to plant the, um, tomatoes, I'll plant the, I'll transplant the tomatoes in. By the time the tomatoes get large enough to, to shade the lettuces, the lettuces are actually enjoying some of that shade and they are, they're almost done anyway. Um, another thing that I did before I realized I didn't like radishes was plant them at the same time as my carrots, because they hurt, they're ready so quickly, whereas carrots take forever to even germinate. And they would remind me that that's where I sewed my carrots. Cause I could see the radishes coming up. Um, the photo that you're looking at now, it's a completely overgrown mess, but it, it was, um, my attempt in a three sisters garden, which is an indigenous planting technique using corn, beans and squash and the three complement each other. So the beans grow up the support is the, the corn, which supports the bean growth, the beans fixed nitrogen in the soil feeding the other two plants. Um, the, um, squash shades, the big leech shade at the soil, um, for renting erosion and water loss. And they also are kind of prickly. So they protect the corn from, from rodents. Um, so the other thing we can do is we can grow vertically, use your walls and railings to support climbers or use planters designed to maximize vertical space, um, grow everything we can vertically, peas, beans, squash, berries, um, use, or use planters designed to take advantage of vertical space like these woolly pockets. Um, these are kind of ugly, I think, but I'll mention them anyway, cause there's definitely a way to maximize vertical space. Um, this is called a green stock, uh, product. Um, then there's just something that like this, that's a green, a homemade green wall. Um, uh, definitely a great way to maximize for vertical space as well. Another method, um, for small space growing is cut and come again. This is a method for harvesting greens such as arugula, bok choy, chervil, chicory, lettuces, of course, um, mustards. And there's two methods to doing it. One is, um, when the plants are about four inches high, you just kind of lop them off, um, harvest everything you can, and then water them with like a high nitrogen fertilizer, like the fish emulsion. And then you can, the plants will regrow and you can kind of just repeat, like mow them down, fertilize, regrow, you can repeat that two or three times throughout the growing season. The other method and the one that I prefer is just to keep harvesting the outer leaves. So if you, this is your plant, you're taking the bottom leaf off of each one and harvesting around the outside. And the plant just keeps growing and you just keep harvesting. And, um, yeah, and it keeps the plant looking a little bit more attractive than mowing it all off at the, at root level. Another way to maximize your spaces to extend your growing season beyond the typical spring and summer growing period. So we talked a little bit about succession planting, which does have you growing in those shoulder seasons. Um, but you, there's ways to do that. So you can start or buy your own transplants, allowing you to get things into the ground earlier. So, you know, starting things on your window ledge in February, um, for being able to transplant those out when it's warm enough. Um, and then having things ready to go, um, right after you harvest. So just again, never keeping a pot or plot of, uh, ground, um, bear. Always having something ready to go into it. As the weather cools, we can use cloches like these pretty little glass ones or some row frost protection fabric over, um, our crops to protect sensitive plants and extend the growing season. Um, I do this sometimes with green, with greens, but often it's, it's, we don't have a cold enough winter to even warrant it. Um, and then grow a winter garden. So we're in June now and we're just planting our tomatoes and our zucchinis and our beans and our warm season crops, but it's already time to start thinking about, what do I want to harvest this fall and throughout the winter? And that that starts, believe it or not now, there's some things that we're planting now. Um, and all the way through to, um, late August, September, that will feed us throughout fall and winter. So planting cold tolerant crops in mid summer, uh, for a fall and winter harvest, um, winter gardening, isn't planting things in winter. It's, it's, a winter garden is more like a refrigerator. So you want to get all your plants to kind of, uh, a good teenager size, um, by the end of October. And then they'll, they'll hold throughout the winter and you can harvest them then. So things like carrots, um, corn salad, kale, uh, Swiss chard, um, garlic, um, leeks and parsnips, uh, scallions, even spinach, um, quite cold tolerant. The other thing that we can do is we can just mix in edibles to our ornamental gardens. Um, so this is the photo of the side of my house. Uh, and I've got blackberry, blueberry, alpine strawberry, chives, parsley, apple trees, um, hops. Like I've gotten a lot packed into this garden that's also full of, as you'll see, like delias and asters and grasses and other things that aren't edible. Um, so there are a lot of beautiful edible things, uh, that you can add to an existing ornamental garden and, um, kind of increase the productivity of, of that space. And that brings me to the end of my presentation. Um, and I will, um, stop my sharing. Do I want to stop my sharing, Lynn? Um, yeah, I think that probably makes sense. Thanks, Andrew. Yeah. Great. Okay. Um, so there are some questions in the Q and A. And there were a couple of questions that came over the chat and the Q and A about recording. And I guess I am recording this session. So, uh, eventually, um, it'll go up on the library's YouTube channel. Okay. So, um, the first question is for raised beds, can I not nix some garden soil with compost and sea soil? Or does it have to be exclusively sea soil or equivalent? Um, so I will answer this live. Yeah, just, yeah. Okay. Um, yes, you can definitely mix it for raised beds. It's a little bit different. You can definitely mix in some more organic matter. Um, they're, they don't have run the same risk of, um, becoming compacted. So yes, raised beds definitely mix in some garden soil, compost, sea soil. It does not have to be, you don't strictly have to be ripping open a bag and, um, and, uh, filling up that, that would be very expensive. Um, and then what are the planting instructions for a Meyer lemon tree? So, um, the Meyer lemon tree that I was given, actually, my husband was given it by my mom who knows that he's a foodie and thought, oh, he'll love this Meyer lemon tree. Um, but of course I'm the gardener. So I ended up being my Meyer lemon tree. Um, so it's the, um, Phoenix perennials in Richmond. Um, it has a wide variety. I think you probably garden works does as well. Um, and, um, there's a great nursery in the North store. I can't think of the name of right now is it maple leaf or yeah. Um, yeah. So, um, Meyer lemons, they, uh, they do need, um, feeding. So I would probably just transplant. Um, so taking the, the, the ones that I bought or have, it came in a pot. I would just transplant it into a large container. Um, and make sure that this, it's got some good, um, container soil around it. Again, mix in the granular organic fertilizer and, um, and give it a go. Um, they are taller hearty to about minus six, which is actually quite amazing when you think about citrus, but, um, it's, uh, yeah, I'm not sure if that answers the question, but yeah, I would just plant it like it would any, um, any perennial, uh, woody perennial and, um, fertilizing, watering, keeping it in a warm sheltered location, bringing it in over the winter. Um, and, uh, yeah. So, um, I'm hoping for lemons. Um, what do you recommend for mulches, leaves, grass, wood chips, newspaper? I think my ideal mulch is mulches play a couple of roles, right? So one is that it protects the soil, um, and reduces weed growth. And, um, one thing I'm relying on, on mulches for right now is my cats pooping in the garden. So I'm finding that by mulch heavily, they, they're less likely to use it that way. Um, so, but I also want, ideally you're looking for a mulch that's also not just protecting the soil, um, but it's performing some other functions. So there's mulches that you can use for tomatoes, like to heat the soil. Um, for example, like plastic is considered a mulch actually, because it covers the soil and warms it up. I don't like using plastic if I don't have to. So I, I prefer like a compost because that's going to break down and provide nutrients. Um, but I, I use a lot of, um, of hay, like I buy a, a ba, a bale of hay in fall. Um, and I use it for mulching my pathways and I cover my, my tomato beds with it. Um, and I, I like that it really does seem to keep the, um, the soil moist and my cats, most importantly, my cats don't like it. Um, but that, like compost, I know, but we never have enough compost, right? It seems like you can never make, make as much compost as you need. So that's my first choice. Um, I like leaf leaves. If they're been broken down, um, like, Oh, composted for a year. Um, I never use grass because my lawn has so many weeds in it. I'm always nervous to introduce weeds to the garden if I don't want to. And I find that wood chips, um, I don't, I don't love using word chips. They are, they're, they take nitrogen out of the soil so they can actually rob nitrogen, um, from the soil. So they're okay for like a longer term planting, like, or under a Roto or something like that where there's an established plant, but I wouldn't use them around, um, annual petimals. Um, what was that tomato in the small white pot? Um, that one is from Burpee and it's called a patio princess. Um, I, I'd love some more tips on building a green wall kind of thing if you have any. Um, yeah, I have never personally built a green wall, but I've had the benefit of watching my neighbor do it. Um, they were, they were really pallet walls were really popular a few years ago. And what I know about them is that they are, um, difficult to keep, like watering is going to be key. So having some sort of integrated watering system, ideally, where, um, you're not having to water all those little pockets. Um, and having again with the drip irrigation setup so that it can filter down. Um, I'm not an expert on green wall building, but I know, um, there is lots of resources out there. Um, there's a local company. The name is escaping right now, but they do build like professional green walls, but, um, yeah, watering is kind of a key thing. And, um, I might, maybe I'll write a post on my blog on that. I'll do some research and get back to you Colin. Um, okay. What else? If you plant after harvesting garlic, does the smell or taste enter the new planting? That is an interesting question. One that I have never considered. I have never experienced it impacting the new planting. No, so I'm going to say no. Um, what brand of fertilizer do you use? Um, so I, so the granular organic fertilizer that I talked about, that basically goes into everything. Um, it's a brand called Gaia Garden, uh, GAIA. And that's my, they have custom fertilizers for plants and for veggie gardens and all that. And I usually just go with the basic, like they're, they're all purpose fertilizer, the four, four, four. Um, and then, oh yeah. So then the other thing I do is the liquid fertilizers, um, kelp man, like kelp K E L P man, um, local product. Um, I love, I love that. Um, that is a, as a liquid. So just like adding a little cat bowl to my watering can when I'm, um, when I'm fertilizing and doing that once a week throughout the growing season, it's a very low, um, like NPK rating, if it means anything. So the, the, the, it's not super high in fertilizer, but, um, it really just adds some sort of like, it's like a tonic for the plants. They seem to love it. My balcony has virtually no sun. Any suggestions, please? I'm sorry. Um, I've definitely been there and it's challenging. Um, like I said, I will be posting a link, um, in the chat. Is that the best way to do that? Uh, Lynn to post the link to the, the site there. Yeah. That would be great. Yeah. Okay. Um, I'll just make sure it's broadcasting to all the attendees. Okay. Um, so I'll do that in a sec, but yeah. So I have that list of things that grow in part shade. Um, I don't know if you remember the slide that I showed where my daughter was at the raised beds and that it was the, the three raised beds above my complexes, um, garage that got about two hours of Sunday. Direct sun. And I was really, I didn't know if it was going to work or not. Um, and I, that became my salad garden. Like it was amazing for greens and I, I was, I was pleasantly surprised at how well greens did. So I don't know when you say virtually no sun, like if, if, if we're talking no sun, there's really like most edibles are not going to be happy. Most plants aren't going to be happy. Um, you know, mushrooms, mushrooms are fun. Um, but if you've got like a couple hours, I would just try doing some greens. Um, in that two, two hours, maybe, maybe you got three hours in the peak of summer. We got, we did grow some peas. They weren't super prolific. I think that's a thing. Like you try it. And if you're not getting fruit, then, you know, that it's not enough sun. Um, but yeah, I would say mostly I would, I would turn to greens. Um, there's alpine strawberries. So like, um, uh, I'm trying to think of the Latin name and it's escaping me, but, um, really pretty little strawberries are tiny and they're, um, they're super fragrant. They're just like, unlike, uh, the strawberries that we're used to, and they do well in shade as well. Um, I hope, I hope that's helpful. And then I will, um, if I can figure out how to, um, quickly find that link and where I put it on my website. I'll bring that up. I can look for it. Is it, it's on your blog? Yeah. Here, I'll look for it. Well, you're answering questions. Okay. Oh, you know what? I'm just, I found it. I'm just going to put the link. Oh, terrific. And, and I'm going to put, um, in the chat. It's on my freebies page. Um, so it's the first link there. Um, you know what I think it may just have gone to you and I, because we're all panelists and I'm going to, um, so I want to do all panelists and attendees, right? Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Um, the next, please let us know the email address. There you go. It's on my blog as heavy pedal.ca and, um, it's under slash freebies. So that I've just included that link in the chat. Okay. Um, Marilyn asks for container growing. Just to be clear, do you start with granular organic fertilizer followed by organic liquid, liquid fertilizer every week during the growing season? Yes. So when I'm planting, when I'm preparing the soil, when I'm actually initially planting things, I am, um, um, mixing in the granular organic fertilizer. And that's just like the long, slow release. Um, I don't usually start with the liquid fertilizer like that same week. It's like, you know, I'll give it a week to settle. Then I'll start with, um, depending on what I'm growing. So I'm growing something that I want a lot of leafy green growth from. I will start with the, um, with the, uh, fish fertilizer. And, and then I will do the, um, the kelp fertilizer, uh, kind of off and on it or alternating with the fish fertilizer after that. So yes, both. Marie asks, when growing food in containers, especially plastic ones, can containers, can any containers work? Or do we have to look for food safe plastic to avoid leaching chemicals in the soil? What do you recommend? Thanks. Yeah. I would look for food safe plastic. I think, um, I'm maybe more, um, careful than, than some, but I, I feel like if I'm growing the food, if I'm growing it for something and I'm eating, I want to avoid, I want to use like a high quality plastic, uh, yeah, just to avoid anything that might be, yeah, like, we don't really know what's, what's coming out of that sometimes. So that, that would be my recommendation. Um, if you're just looking for containers that, um, like repurposing things, um, you know, sometimes I've done like the metal, like the big olive oil jugs or there's other things that you can use other than plastic too, if you're looking for a way to, to just re reuse, um, instead of buying new. Um, Kim asks, I have several small tomato plants I've grown from seed. Yay. Uh, the leaves are beginning to curl. Why is this happening? And what can I do about it? Um, I'm curious if it's maybe just the variety, like sometimes some varieties of tomatoes are like a potato leaf variety and they, they do naturally kind of curl under. Um, yeah. The other reason could be maybe heat stress or drought stress. Um, if, if those, uh, aren't, it's hard, it's hard to say. I wish I, this is one instance where you wish you could ask them clarifying questions. Um, but yeah, I'm wondering it could, it could be nothing. It could just be that that's the variety that you have where the leaves are curling under. And if it looks healthy otherwise, then I wouldn't worry about it. Um, and then otherwise I would look at the two main things, which would be, um, heat stress, uh, or, or drought stress. We haven't, it hasn't been very hot lately. Um, or the past week or so. So maybe it's, uh, a water issue. Um, I live on the 15th floor face west, northwest, so don't get full sun until mid to late afternoon. What recommendations would you have for edible plantings? I have a good cell size balcony. Thank you. That's a tough situation, actually. Um, I, I have a, an area of my backyard, that's the same and it's tough because like you're in shade most of the day. And then it's like this full on hot summer, you know, afternoon sun and it's really tough. Um, so what things would I recommend that light getting shade most of the day and blasted with sun for a few hours? Um, I guess the heartiest things really, um, probably things like zucchini and beans. Um, beans would probably be fine. Um, you could make, I'm wondering if you could maybe create a bit of screening with something like, like a bean trellis. Um, you could also try, um, those heat loving fruiting plants, like egg plants, like things that are okay in the heat. And yeah, I'm just, it's, it's tough to think of how many hours that would be. But if you get sun for the rest of the evening too, that might be enough. Try it. Yeah. I sympathize with you because that is, that can be a challenging place to grow things. I have a, yeah, I have a similar area I'm thinking of and I feel for you, but again, I think it's like a matter of trial and error sometimes and just, um, and just seeing what, seeing what works. Um, someone's asking about slugs. Um, I have them fortunately only in just a couple of months. So yeah, slugs. Have you tried the beer trick? Um, this is, this works like a charm. I take a little, um, uh, cat food, uh, tin and I sink it level with the soil and I fear fill it with beer. Um, and they love it. They, um, they go in, they love beer, they drown and you got to think, like, it's not a bad way to go. Yeah, it works so well. Um, and it's, you know, it's obviously like you're not introducing pesticides or anything. So that's my, my, my trick. Um, if you don't, if you're not a beer drinker, um, you know, an orange rind turned upside down. Um, yeah. So that, uh, that they'll also kind of collect under there or leave that overnight. And then in the morning, um, it just, hopefully they, they gathered in the orange rind and you can just throw it away. The blog address for your chart. Yeah. So that's, um, that's in the chat. It's heavypedal.ca slash freebies. Um, when you bring a pot with plants indoors for the winter, what needs to be done to get rid of the bugs? Hmm. That get inside the pot. Great question. This is the kind of thing that I do that my husband hates me for sometimes. Cause I, yeah, I'll be like, washing my stuff in the kitchen sink. Um, what can be done to get rid of the bugs? I guess you could bring it in and like leave it in a garage for a day and hope they vacate. I'm really, I don't know. Um, I don't, I'm not sure I have a great answer to that question. Um, sorry. What is a good place to buy plants? Do you have any recommendations for interesting plants? Um, you know, I buy plants from everywhere. Like I used to be a bit of a snob, but now sometimes I'll be at home depot. I'm like, Oh, this looks interesting and it's cheap. So we're a good place to buy plants. I mean, I love the specialty nurseries. I love Phoenix perennials and I love Southlands and I love garden works, but um, yeah, I mean, any, any place is a good place to buy plants. Oh, the farmers markets actually. Um, I buy a lot of my veggie starts there. Um, and do I have any recommendations for interesting plants? I have another talk on heirloom and adult and interesting, um, vegetables. Oh well, we might have to have you back. Yeah. Um, I mean, things that are unusual, things that you can't find in the supermarket, um, things that, yeah, just the different varieties. I think it's West Coast seeds have a lot of variety. They have tons. Yeah. Yeah, but then you're growing from seed, which is a little, little different. Mm hmm. Yeah. Um, so Nancy's asking any tips on avoiding green potatoes that are grown in potato bags. I've hilled mine a few times, but cannot add any more soil. Interesting. Um, yeah, green potatoes are usually a result of not being covered. Um, so if you're killing them, and I guess that if you're can't add any more soil and wondering that is because the, um, because the pot is full already, I'm not sure that there's much you can do. Um, yeah. If the, if the bag's full and you can't, you can't add any more. Um, I don't, I'm sorry. I don't have any tips on that. My tip would have been to make sure that the potatoes are covered, um, as they're developing, like the actual tuber is usually what will, uh, if it's exposed then it, then it does turn green and is inedible. But, um, I'm not sure that there's more you can do if you, if you can't add any more soil. Sorry, Nancy. Um, Leanne's asking, is a one gallon container big enough for a lettuce plant? Yes. Yeah. Um, in my book, um, small space vegetable gardens, there's a every, there's an A to Z section at the back that has, um, each plant and it's got a listing for the depth of soil or container required. Lettuce is one of those ones that has a shallow root system. So four inches is, is big enough for that. In big containers, what is the minimum of corn plants to still have good pollination? Okay. So someone wants to try growing corn in the containers. After all, I love it. Um, I, corn does need to, so corn is one of those plants that's not pollinated by insects. It's pollinated by, um, wind and it's got those tap, the tassels that we see are actually how it gets pollinated. So it needs to be grown close enough together so that, um, those, those, um, tassels can kind of do their birds and bees. Um, so I think, I mean, I've grown the minimum of, I think probably like a four by four or 12, like six by six, like eight to 12 plants, I would say at minimum. If you're high up and less likely that pollinators will find your plants, what can be planted? Great question. Something I also questioned when I was growing on a third floor, uh, balcony. Um, so some things do better if we're helping out with pollination anyway. So, um, zucchinis are a prime example of that. If you, um, have ever grown, um, zucchinis and wondered why they get to a certain size and then they turn brown and die, that's poor pollination. So, um, what I do just to ensure that my zucchini fruits are being pollinated is I kind of, I, I interfere. So I'll get like a one of my kids little paint brushes or a Q tip or something. And I'll take the pollen from the male blossom, but the male blossoms are the one that don't have a little baby fruit on the end. They're just a stem. I'll take the pollen from that and I'll, um, swipe it inside the, the blossom on the female, uh, zucchini plant or zucchini flower. Um, so something that where you have to get involved in the pollination anyway, it might be a way to do that. And then the other thing I would suggest is just try to plant lots of things that will attract pollinators. So, um, like the sweet elissum that I mentioned, um, anything with an umbil flower. So dill or, um, carrots, no, it's a second year thing, but, um, dill, sorry, my children are having a tantrum outside. Um, you can hear that or not. Um, yeah. Um, so try to try to attract pollinators. I think would be the biggest thing. And then, um, yeah. And then just something that you might need to get involved with anyway. Yeah. Um, that is that sort of it. And I think that's it. Right. Yeah. That's, wow. Great. Um, thank you so much. That's fantastic. I learned a lot too. I took lots of notes. I'm actually just stunned at the variety that's possible. Yes. It's cool. I mean, I grow every year, I have my favorites, but every year I try something new. And I think that's what makes it interesting is that like, I always grow something weird, like, um, you know, one year was quinoa and then one year I took over a city owned lot and grew wheat. Um, you know, like there's, I think there's gardening is like, just this big fun experiment. And I love the variety of things that we can do. So that's wonderful. Wow. So I just, um, well, obviously to thank you so much for such an informative and inspiring talk, that was great. Um, and I wanted to let everybody know that your book, Small Space Vegetable Gardens is still in print and, uh, it could be purchased from some of our local garden stores that then do some botanical gardens or UBC botanical gardens, or even ordered from a independent seller like Pulp Fiction. Of course Indigo has it online. So just so people know about that. Um, and you know, and thanks also to all the attendees for coming. I'm, the questions are great. And I know that, uh, it makes the whole talk a lot more interesting for Andrea. And, uh, yeah, that was great. Thank you so much. And maybe we'll get you back to talk about heirloom. Anyway, I think your kids need you now. That's why I'm in the shed. I can lock the door. Thanks so much for taking time out of your busy schedule. It's big. Okay. Bye Andrea. Bye everybody. Thanks a lot.