 They are inside Hawaii Real Estate. Here we are on Think Tech. I'm Jay Fidel. We're going to meet a daring duo today. And this duo is going to undertake a real estate series here on Think Tech. And the duo is Will Tanaka. He's a real estate professional and lawyer. OK, and Leonie Lam. She is a better homes and garden. Better, better, better. That's like, you know, Think Tech, better every day, right? Every day better. So welcome to the show, Will and Leonie. Nice to see you smiling face. Thank you so much, Jay. So, you know, who cares about real estate? I'm sorry. You know, there's so many things in the world to worry about. Leonie, you go first. Tell me why I should care about real estate. I don't know. I mean, for me, I bought my first property 20 years ago, right? And it was, I think my signing was on Halloween day. And for me, I guess I was super stoked to lock in at a 5.75% interest rate at that time. And back then, the median single-family home price was $335,000. And I bought a six-bedroom two-bath in Palo Alto Valley and was able to offset some of the mortgage costs by renting out the downstairs. And I don't know. For me, it was just this feeling of immense pride. And I was so in awe of the way that I was cared for throughout the process. And so it motivated me. And I felt like this is something I want to be a part of. I want to be a part of this industry. So I went and got a job, a corporate job, for one of the leading real estate firms at that time. And it's just something that I have a lot of passion for and that I've enjoyed doing over the last 20 years. OK, explain to me how you could be passionate about real estate. Is it just money? Is that what you're talking about, or something more? Is it a connection, for example, to the INA? Is it holding the, I got the vision, holding the soil in your hands and touching the earth, touching Hawai'iana? What is it? Very much about that. I think that realtors in general, it's kind of like you're helping become like a steward of the land. And so with the way that you take care of the land, that's our company's, one of our company's models. The way if you take care of the land, it's going to take care of you. So being able to kind of be part of that journey of passing along the land and having people that are purchasing it, educated in their responsibility to the land, especially here in Hawai'i, with all of our culture and all of that, I think that's a huge part of it. And I think, yeah, so I mean, that's a big part of it for sure. So Will, if you're a lawyer, you know, and they say, I'm working on this, you know, as a concept, they say that lawyers are different from ordinary people. And they say that real estate lawyers are different from real estate professionals like Leone. How does that work? And how different are you? And do you guys talk to each other after business hours? Absolutely. Yeah, and we have a combined five kids between 10 and 15. Oh my God, OMG. So it's a pretty busy life. But first of all, I just wanted to thank you, Jay, and I also wanted to thank your COO, Karamon Lee, as well, for this amazing opportunity. And you know, yeah. She cares a lot about this show. He must have a special interest in real estate. I know it, I know I feel it, yeah. So first of all, yeah, very grateful for you, Jay, for your team and for Karamon Lee as well. So my background, so I was actually born in Tokyo, Japan. I grew up in Gardena, California. That's where I went to high school. And through that time, my parents always rented, never owned a home. So I had no idea what home ownership was about. So I came here over 20 years ago to attend UH Law School, William S. Richardson School of Law, and I had the fortunate opportunity to practice real estate litigation law with Gustav Anderson Quinnan-Steifel. Oh my goodness, that's litigation. We're with a magic L word. Magic L word, yeah. Very, very good firm, very good real estate firm. Oh, I had great mentors. I still keep in touch with many of the attorneys there. And I would say just generally speaking in terms of, you had asked about the difference between real estate attorneys and real estate professionals. I think when I was a real estate litigation attorney, usually we come in when things blow up, right? And people want to sue each other. There's a lot of emotions that's really high. And I would say that we're only representing our clients to their best interests. We're just doing our job, right? And we really care about our clients. So we are gonna be fierce litigators and fierce negotiators. With that said, as real estate professionals, you're kind of doing pretty much the similar thing. I mean, you're trying to achieve the same goal as home ownership, right? If you're on the listing side, you wanna sell the property, if you're on the buy side, you wanna put your buyer clients into the home. But the end goal is to represent your clients to the fullest, right? And you wanna be fierce, but also a very fair negotiator, right? It's a small island. And you likely be dealing with that realtor that you dealt with in a future transaction or within that same brokerage. So there's always gonna be a level of professionalism, stability, and in that way, there's a lot of similarities. Fierce, a fierce negotiator. What? Leonie is smiling. Leonie, what's a fierce negotiator and are you nearly as fierce as Will is? I'm proud. I think if people know us, they'd probably feel that I'm fiercer in some ways and some aspects, no way to agree with that. I agree with that, Jay. I agree with her. What about love? What about Aloha? What about, you know, win, win, win, win, win all around? What about that? That's actually what it's more about, I think. And I think that's what Will does. You know, in his business, I watch him and he's cooperative with the other side as much as possible. So he's fierce in terms of what he's gonna do to achieve the goals that his clients have, but he's also a great advisor in terms of being able to be well-rounded and cooperative with all parties involved. Yeah, at the end of the day, the practice of real estate can have traps in it, as any litigator would know. And you think you did it right, but maybe you didn't and the other fellow's gonna call it out for you and point out how many mistakes you made, how many footfalls you fell into and use that for the advantage of his client. So, you know, like all litigation, like all commercial transactions, the jungle out there, no question about it. And if you're a principal, I mean, if you're a client, you better pay attention. It's not like some people say, oh, well, what's your professional handle it now? Turn my back in and go to Peru. No, no, no, you gotta pay attention to it. And that's a big thing. So what do you hope to achieve, Will, in this show we have in mind, inside Hawaii real estate? I just, the words themselves, it's inside, we wanna know more than we would otherwise know. We wanna know about Hawaii real estate as distinguished from real estate elsewhere. And I suppose we wanna know more about, you know, the practice, the trade of real estate here, tips and tricks, if you will. And real estate, I guess, just to look at the definition of that, gee, that could be anything. You know, this state is all about real estate. And if you look at all the lawyers and all the firms, you know, a substantial percentage of them are practicing in real estate. Am I right? Exactly, yeah. And you know, with, so Leone has been in the real estate industry for over 20 years. So she's the vice president of Better Homes and Gardens. She's on the regional boarder of directors. How's that possible if she's 16 years old? She looks great. I wish, I wish. Yeah, okay. So with her, just, you know, myriad of experiences and knowledge, you know, combined with my real estate attorney, as well as, you know, investment properties and now residential real estate, we definitely wanna bring value, a lot of value, a lot of content and education. But what we wanna do is, you know, we call it, and thank you Carol, inside Hawaii real estate because we wanna get a deep dive into the Hawaii real estate market. So for example, if there's any upcoming developments, then we will bring a guest speaker that's representative of that development and tell us about, you know, the new developments that's gonna be coming on the market. Yeah, and I think we wanna share perspective from the experts that are in the field also. So maybe interviewing people that are experts in the field to kind of share with people who are thinking about real estate or interested in real estate, other insider information directly from experts. Okay, we got development, we got experts. So the development thing, I think we have an example of that, but what's the example, the only other expert? What kind of expert do you have in your mind when you say that? The first thing that came to mind is definitely not sexy, but it's like sewer scoping. So, you know, I learned that if you're gonna buy a single family home, you should most likely, in Hawaii, you should most likely get a sewer scope and you're gonna wanna check it out with what's happening in there or what's not happening in there, before you make the purchase, but what is involved in a sewer scope? Something like that. I think hearing directly from a practitioner, the value, the pitfalls that have happened when people haven't done something like that, I think that would be kind of something that would be on my mind. You know, I don't know why, but this reminds me of a situation where the property was in the side of a hill and the guy was buying the property and he said, this was on the side of a hill, I think I might need a soil sky. And he said, I know a soil sky. He practiced, you know, as a soils engineer back in 1937, and he retired and he's my buddy, he's my friend and he won't charge me anything. And he hasn't actually been involved in soil engineering in a long time. Why did I use him? Why did I use him, Leone? Well, hopefully he's still alive. I'm not sure, but yeah, I think they're experts like soils engineers. That's a super, it's hard to find soils engineers. Some of our go-to people have left the business of that. So I think that's another huge one that would be interesting. And you wouldn't think that that's interesting or that that really is what comes to mind when you think about real estate, but I think it's super relevant for people to kind of understand more about that. Yeah, the thing about experts is really important to know what kind of experts are out there and to meet them and see, you know, how they think and what kind of problems they address and what kind of solutions. That would be an interesting show. What else, Will, what else do you have in your mind about interesting guests or situations that you want to cover on this show? Okay, so we have a lot of great ideas. We have, you know, ADUs, Ohana dwellings, the permit process for closure sales. I was recently appointed as a court appointed commissioner. So I've been dealing with foreclosures. And I thought you were a nice person. No, I'm a court appointed. I'm a neutral third party. I'm not foreclosing, but I have to act on behalf of the court. Okay, all right. But that process would be very interesting to show people what happens. Very interesting, yeah. Yeah, yeah. From the commissioner's point of view, so in that case, you really only would have a show and you wouldn't need a guest. And it's a really, really wanted one. You could be the guest. You're the commissioner. You're the man. Yeah, I mean, Will has this extensive background. He was president of First Toy Title Corporation and prior to that general counsel for Fidelity National Title. So he has a wealth of information about the little things that are called title and escrow. You know what I mean? Like from the title report to tenancy to all of those other aspects. I mean, he has an expert level knowledge. So I mean, he could speak to those items too. Of course, we love to share with us. And sometimes you want to hear it from a third party. Yeah. It's like our kids, right? We're trying to discipline them. Sometimes it just goes out the other year, but you know, Uncle Mike comes in and is like, hey, you should do this. And like, oh, that's a great idea, Uncle Mike. We've been telling you like, you know, 10 times. So I think that's why we would like to bring a guest. Well, when you can, absolutely. But I think you'll find that not everybody wants to come on the media. So you have to make your choices carefully and talk to them and make sure they're comfortable with all that. As comfortable as you guys are right now. That's comfortable. So what happens when you have a conflict, yeah? I mean, what happens, you know, when you're talking about a case, a case study, if you will. We like case studies. Sometimes you would mention the names and sometimes you would not. And I said, Leone, suppose you represent the buyer and will his commissioner. What are you going to do? If I represented the buyer and will is on the other side. Yes. Well, that probably wouldn't have things. We're kind of on the same team, so to speak. Okay, I'm just posing issues and questions. But you know, we had a show just now about homelessness in Canada, in Vancouver specifically. And it was very interesting that just like in Hawaii and even more so in mainland cities, you know, there's a lot of homelessness and there's a need for affordable housing. There's a need to place homeless in housing, build housing, find developers who are willing to roll up their sleeves on that, you know. And as a social matter, as a state policy issue, this is really important. And may I offer that it's unresolved, completely unresolved, lots of talk, you know, but no solution. But my question is, are you going to cover that? And if so, how will, how will you cover that? Absolutely, that's a great point. And you know, we actually watched the debates for the lieutenant governor and the governor and that was a very hot topic. And the interesting thing is one of the state's economists pointed out the reason why in terms of home prices, I mean, it showed up, you know, typically in any given year, pre-COVID it will rise 4%, maybe 5% a year. During COVID nationwide, it rose between 10% to 20% in some neighborhoods even more. So it just went crazy, right? So now in terms of we're talking about recession, we're talking about the higher interest rates, you know, what's going to happen in Hawaii. And what the economists said or predicted was because of the lack of inventory and the lack of new homes. And I'll give you a perspective, right? So every year on Oahu, there's approximately 2,500 new homes being built a year. Not enough. Not enough. But listen to this. So what happens is 2,500 new homes a year, with that said, there's about 5,000 buyers from the mainland buying homes, right? So only 2,500 new homes being built, you have 5,000 US mainland buyers buying your homes just on Oahu. We're not even counting the foreign international market yet. You know, there hasn't been because of COVID, very little Japanese, Chinese, Korean. Some Canadians are coming back, especially in the Maui and the big islands. But in terms of affordable housing, yeah, I mean, the new developments are always focusing on so-called affordable, but even for some of our buyer clients, even like 500,000 is not even affordable for them. They might be in a much lower range. So yes, we will scour the islands to find an expert who could really dig deep into that topic. So great idea, Jay. Well, there's all kinds of social policy issues around real estate. I mean, we have agreed that real estate is important. Maybe one of the important industries in the state, I think of all the people, you know, between the escrows and the brokers and the lawyers and the bankers that I could go on. The appraisers, don't forget the appraisers, they're central on all that. So, I mean, it's a huge industry and you know, for our lifetimes, it's been directed at high oppressive, more appreciation or gain realized than taxable capital gain and all that. And yet, and those things are not necessarily good for Hawaii. It's those kids, you know, kids don't know. Kids, you're kids who want to stay here or you want them to stay here and you can't afford it. So where's the policy for you guys? I mean, I know that, you know, you want to make a living in real estate, but I put to you the question of what is the role of you guys and the role of your guests and the people you might have on from the legislature and the like from, you know, all kinds of organizations that are trying to make Hawaii more livable. You want to get into that or will you get into that? What can you do about that? To make housing acceptable somehow to all those kids who are otherwise gonna say, I'm out of here. You know what I mean? I mean, that's such a tough question. I mean, for me, the affordable housing, you know, sort of crisis if you will for local people that is super near and dear in my heart. And, you know, like Will mentioned, we have five kids and I do wonder what the future will hold for them and how we can prepare them for it with the way that the market is and the way things are going. So, I mean, I don't know. I think that the only way that we can address it is to build awareness. And maybe like you said, to bring on certain people that can speak to that. And if there are certain ideas that can be kind of put together we can kind of, you know, help to highlight them and bring them out to public awareness for support. Tremendous public policy issues in and around. I'm happy to hear you're gonna cover that. Because that is really where the future of the state is. The other thing is, you know, Will, you mentioned neighbor islands and, you know, real estate practice, I'm sure you realize is different. And the neighbor islands, the way people see the land where they see transactions, the way they see being involved in the dos and dos of buying and selling and reselling and what happened. And all the neighbor islands. Are you guys planning to cover subjects specific to the neighbor islands? Because that's another challenge for you, I think, no? Yeah, we would love to do that. Yeah, because it's interesting. So, you know, once in a while, we'll get an inquiry. They're like, hey, I heard we could get a one acre lot in Hawaii for $10,000. Yeah, put me in touch, will you? Yeah. So these are lava lands, you know, on the east side of on the Hilo side of the big island where it's not insurable. You'll never be able to get any type of insurance. So you're just taking that risk. And yeah, they're selling at a fraction of a cost of any other potential property. So they just look at the numbers. They look at how much land they could get, but they're not well educated on, you know, could they really build a house and get insurance and, you know, what are the risks and the rewards of it? Yeah, absolutely. Different issues. Different issues, yeah. Different issues and different approach. And, you know, I mean, to me, I think that the state is or should be connected. And, you know, all one state doesn't matter what island. And the more the islands can come together, the better. And one way is to have people move around from island to island. You know, it used to be that way, you know, in your parents' time and my early time. It used to be that people moved from island to island. And, you know, they had family in every island and it was all linked to way, way back, 19, what did I say, 1937, all that. Yeah. So we're talking about environment, you know, and, you know, we'll raise that. What about, you know, what about bad chemicals? What about things that the EPA cares about? You know, what about, you know, having a bad surprise in the transaction or after the closing where you haven't really, you know, checked out the environmental condition of the land? That's one aspect. And the other aspect, you know, as Will suggested, Leon, is, you know, how are we going to all cooperate to make sure that, you know, we respect the land, as I mentioned earlier, that we respect, you know, the future of the island in Hawaii? Because I think everybody in the real estate industry has to be conscious of that and try it. What do you think? No, I completely agree with you. And, you know, I think that taking care of the land, you know, the land will take care of you back. And I think that is, it's so important because I don't know if, especially sometimes when buyers come from other places and then they're not even attuned to that or aware, right? And it's not their fault. It's important to provide that level of education and also what it means to take care of the land, you know? And it could be cultivating food off of it or, you know, just it's not any one certain thing, but there are definitely practices that you can do. And I think it's providing that education. And so we definitely have, we know people that are very, that have this mission and that we could actually bring on to speak to that. Very, very good point. Oh, that opens the whole issue of planning, of county planning, city planning, state planning about, you know, exactly what do we want from this area or that area? People, for example, you know, they ring their hands about what happened to Kakaako, what happened to Kakaako? We'll never get back to where we were, you know? It's messed up for the next 500 years we can do. Well, there was, you know, a lack of planning, I think. So Will, you know, how much is a real estate professional or a lawyer? How much is he or she or should be involved in planning for neighborhoods? For Kali, for example, which is an open book right now. And then let me go one step further when I'm sort of tipping, I'm tipping my hand on what I want to ask you next is you guys talk about residential, you talk about development, you talk about building, you know, communities and hopefully making them livable. What about agriculture? Whoa, agriculture is so important. And we have to find a way to make land available to farmers out of UH, to young people who want to be entrepreneurs and farming. Okay, so that's kind of a very broad question, but I want to know your thoughts about the larger picture of planning our islands into the future. What's the role of the real estate professional as a lawyer and what's the more importantly, perhaps for this purpose, what's the role of this show? Great point. So I think, you know, it's not just the real estate professional's responsibility to be involved in the neighborhood events and activities and the planning for the future. With that said, I think we have more general knowledge and more specific knowledge than maybe some other professionals, right? So absolutely that where, you know, for example, anytime there's a new law that's coming up, our Hawaii board members are very heavily involved whether in support of or against, you know, as a collective whole. So in that way, you know, Leon is on the board member and I think as a whole, we're very active in both politics, in the planning and, you know, we have a lot of resources and relationships not only with the city and the state, but with the local appraiser, the planning department. So I think as a whole, we have to be absolutely involved. Well, that goes one step further for me and that is, you know, the self-governing, the aspect of the real estate industry, you know, because it's hard to govern an industry with so much that's happening, so many people are involved, so much the money is passing hands and there's so many possibilities for people breaking the rules, the ethical rules, the moral rules, the rules. And, you know, you talk about belonging to organizations, you know, the board of realtors, what have you, any number of things which ostensibly do or could participate in disciplining people who are off the side, who make sure that everybody is properly trained and competent to represent, you know, clientele in this area. Do you, let me ask Leonie, she's been quiet for a while. It's hard to believe Leonie has been quiet. Leonie, what about that? You know, do you want to be involved in that? You want to cover that on the show? You want to bring people in who can help explain who, you know, a young entry-level brokers and salespeople and developers who get involved in this, you know, about what the rules are and the disciplinary guardrails. You want to do that too? Yeah, I think that it's important for consumers to know because they often don't, right? They get involved in a real estate transaction and they don't always know that the realtors are held to a code of ethics and that it is a national thing, but it's also, you know, governed at a local level too and that they have rights and what the process is if they feel that they need to exercise those rights. So I think that would be a very amazing topic to have, you know, on the show to kind of explain in sort of an understandable way, not to get too technical, right? But just to say basically that there are this code of ethics and here is the process where if you feel like you need to seek help or counsel and there's these resources available to you. Yeah, I think it's always necessary in real estate because you always have some bad apples, sorry. Sorry I said that. You always have some bad apples. Who, you know, maybe they wanna bribe government, maybe they wanna have improper influence, maybe they wanna lie to people, this is all possible in our time. So Will, you have mentioned a number of times in this show the word development and developer. And it seems to me that one of the things Hawaii is missing, okay, are developers. Developers who are straight shooters who are honest, who have the ability to raise money, who have the ability to make good plans and not take advantage of their ultimate customers. Developers who are okay with writing documents that are fair and even documents. I'm sure in your practice you have seen documents that are not fair and even doc and all that leads to all kinds of issues and troubles. So the real estate community and your show, which to me it wraps around the community, maybe interested in talking about developers and development. Is there any reason in the world why somebody like you guys or somebody else, you know, in the real estate community couldn't wake up on a given Tuesday morning and say, I wanna develop things. I wanna develop affordable housing. I wanna develop a shopping center. I wanna develop a neighborhood. I wanna develop and make life better for everyone. Why can't we have, can we have that? And is there anything you guys can do to make that happen? That is a loaded question and that is a great question, Jay. So I think in terms, when you think about developers, right? And there's some developments, new developments that could be coming up where one component is gonna be affordable housing, right? For example, there's the Ulana and Kakao that will be completed in a couple of years and that's every, that's, I believe, like 100% reserved housing for only for affordable. So there's like certain thresholds. So I think in a lot of the developers' planning aspect of it, yes, they'll get certain tax benefits. So it's gonna be a win-win situation. But I think at least the local developers that we know just generally speaking, they are all thinking about affordable housing. And there's certain thresholds that have to be met. I mean, so there's a maximum income level. And in turn, yeah. Well, I'm thinking about agriculture too. I'm sorry, agriculture always pops up in my brain about developing agricultural lots. Yeah, so there's actually, so that is, there is a potential to, it's very limited on how much you could build, but there's ways to get permits from the city and county to develop a certain amount, not as much as a huge development like Coal Peely or on the West side, but that is a possibility. And we could definitely dig it further. So going back to your original question about why can't everyone just think about affordable housing and develop, I mean, it does come down to the financial resources. Yeah, well, part of that is another element of your show, I'm sure, and that is raising money and investing money and getting investments from elsewhere, which takes me to my last question, which is probably as heavy as any question we have talked about. That's why I'm going to ask my question to you, Leone. Oh, lucky. You know, we have referred to the notion of these multi-million dollar condominium buildings and apartments where the local people could never ever in a million years and a zillion years afford these things and the money comes flying in from the mainland, Europe, Asia, what have you, and displaces any possibility of having a local owner. And I know, Will is going to tell me that you can't favor a block out owners from outside Hawaii, that's against the commerce clause or something, so you can't shut them out, but it seems to me that it's really important for Hawaii to find a way to favor local buyers, to favor local owners and to discourage $5 million condos where the operating expenses, the common area maintenance is $20,000, $30,000 a month. Okay, nobody can afford that and the guys who live there don't come and you can see right through the apartment, there's nothing in it, and when you get to the apartment and you look down on the blue tents, you can see way down in the distant, you know, the 30 floors down you can see blue tents. This is my unfavorite spectacular in Hawaii. How can we deal with offshore investment and offshore owners and buyers to make a better life and a better product for local owners, including your kids? Yeah, I mean, that is a very deep question I would say and, you know, I will say that for some of the luxury condos, oddly enough, it's been my experience that there are local buyers, you know, they'll ultimately sell a home, their family home, maybe that was too large for them and they're downsizing into a condo that requires less maintenance for them. So there have been a lot of local buyers that have purchased even the luxury condos, not all of them, but a good number of them, especially early on and even in current present day. And so I think that for them, you know, in terms of selling their house and who's gonna buy it, that is tough to control, right? Because we can't really, there's no governance on that, but I agree with you. I mean, I wish that there was a way to make it so that there was, but there isn't, it's not that way right now, but, you know, definitely we could bring on or brainstorm on different guests that could maybe speak to that. I think that would be definitely a topic and a very interesting topic, you know, and maybe like two different points of view because there's more than just that. That's, I think if we're like local people here representing Hawaii, like I'm born and raised here, right? And so I have a certain relief system and support of that for local buyers, but at the same token, like, you know, there's other perspectives to be shared on that as well. Yeah, I'm gonna pose the same question to you, you will, because it is a largely, it's a legal question. Before I do that though, I wanna tell you that your friend Carol Monly and I early on in Think Tech, we took a drive to a fancy condo that was just selling. And we walked around and we approached the salesperson there and the salesperson said, I got a real great unit for you. Let me show you this unit. It was really beautiful too, you know. This was very, very high end luxury. I said, what is that gonna cost us? You know, they thought we were gonna buy this together. Right, sure. What's that gonna cost us? And she said, for you special, she said 110 million. That's what I said, I think we gotta go now. But what's interesting is a friend of mine was working for a title company and a few weeks later, I said, you know that? That one condo, it was really nice that they were asking 110 million. Did it sell? And he said, yeah, it's sold for 95 million. I said, oh my God, we have condos in this state that not only are listed at 110, but sell for 95 million dollars. You know, I mean, if I put all my coins together, I could probably live there for 20 minutes and that'd be it. So the question I put to you was, what are we gonna do about that? You were talking about the ultra luxury. Yeah. Well, I think, I mean, in terms of trying to kind of dictate on who could create those ultra luxury condos, I mean, that's gonna be hard. I mean, that's where ultimately it has to be approved by the city and county. And, you know, there are potential buyers, a lot from the mainland and international. There are some locals, but... I don't know of myself personally. Yeah. But, you know, there's a couple of ultra luxuries that's coming up over the next couple of years and which starts probably around the starting price is three million dollars. The starting. I think you guys have to cover that. You have to cover it because it's a reality. It's out there. It is, yeah. And, you know, the big thing in real estate as in everything else we cover is the delta factor, the change. You know, things are always changing and the best of our talk shows capture the notion of that change. Where are we going? Where are we connecting the dots? How is this gonna affect the state and us individually? And how are things elsewhere gonna affect the state and us individually? So I wish you well on this show. You know, we've just touched a few of the issues you might cover. I'm looking forward so much to have you do this. Every two weeks going forward, it's Leone Lam and Will Tanaka, real estate professionals and one of them a lawyer. You know, I'll let you guess who. And we'll see you soon. Thank you very much for coming around today and answering my invasive question. Jay, you are amazing. It has been a pleasure to be able to speak with you and we just appreciate you so much. Well, thank you. You're so grateful. Yeah, thank you so much, Jay. All right, we'll see you on the air. Thank you very much. All right, let's go. All right, let's go. The Baron duo inside of our real estate. Thank you very much. Hello. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn and donate to us at thinktechhawaii.com. Mahalo.