 Run it up, they run it back, run it up, they run it back, run it back, run it up. Good ones, day morning and welcome to Run It Back. It's our Friday. I always say that, it's confusing to some, but that's okay. Here we are, Evan Turner, Chandler Parsons, Eddie Gonzalez, Michelle Beatle, Sean Charania joining us fresh off the most wonderful night of the year out in Chicago. So we'll be getting to that right away. But first, first we had basketball last night. So we just gotta get through that before we can get to the really cool stuff. But yeah, Lakers Denver, finally we got Hoops back. We have things to watch at night. And this was fun. Look, Lakers, they were down big, put up a big fight from a 21 point deficit, but the Nuggets did take game one, 132, 126. Jokic, 34, 21 and 14, a third straight triple double of the postseason in the third quarter. He out rebounded the entire Lakers squad going into halftime. KCP on his teammate and what it's like playing with LeBron. I feel like the only difference is Bron can jump higher than Jokic. That's the only difference, you guys. This is such a fun time because of all the MVP talk and now it's behind us and here we got Jokic. Is he the best player on the planet right now? Right now, yeah, sure. Because the MVP is not playing anymore and he's been sent home. But it's unbelievable. What this dude did last night is insane. It's one of the best individual three quarter performances I've ever seen in my life. The way he controlled the game, the way he would get out in the break, facilitate, drop in dimes at a double team. Some of the shots that he was even taking, let alone hitting. I mean, he had eight points, 12 rebounds and five assists through the first eight minutes of the game. He had a triple double midway through the third quarter and he was defending. He was covering pick and rolls a lot better. The shots he was even hitting were just absolutely insane and it's crazy because he played so good. So did Anthony Davis and we're not even talking about him because as well as AD played, Jokic dominated the game and they got a lot more from the other guys and it was a full balanced attack and the Lakers can't afford to trade baskets with this team. They're too elite, they're too good, they play too unselfish and they're gonna have to find a way to get back in transition and slow them down. But man, Jokic was insane. Yeah, I agree. Jokic is unbelievable. I'm not ready to call him the best player on the planet yet. He's still got a little bit, you know, more basketball to play but. Is he on your top five of current players? On your top? I'll squeeze him in there. Okay, fair enough. He's gotta be top five. One of those got five, six around there but you know, last night was just an unbelievable night. Like you said before, Anthony Davis had an amazing game and we can't even start to talk about him until we pay Jokic his time at G. I didn't see a 31, I think I tweeted a 31, 21, 14 game coming or whatever it was, but an unbelievable night. The way he comes to the game is just, it changes the game. He makes everybody play as he plays. Cause he's Superman. He's the only one that can stop him. Got it. Wow, over my head. He makes the game slow down for him and it's so impressive to watch, especially at this stage, against the players he's playing with the guys who are defending him and you have to adjust on the fly and credit to Darran Ham, he made adjustments and the Nuggets will have to now counter that and tinker with that, but it's just amazing watching what he's doing. And he had half time, he was like 15 and 17. I was like, is he gonna score 40 and 40? I was like, is this the game we're gonna watch right now? But you know, credits of Lakers are fighting back against that big start that they had to go against. Yeah, that was quite the deficit, Shoms. 21 points is no joke. Watching a Lakers 21 point deficit game in the playoffs in Los Angeles is interesting. How was Denver able to do what they did so quickly? Well, I mean, Nicola Joachim, historic performance literally like Chandler said, and then I've never seen this. 10 rebounds, five assists, two blocks in one quarter. First player ever in the last 25 years in the playoffs or regular season. So Nicola Joachim, the numbers he put up, those were great. Anthony Davis had a big time game and we didn't even pay much mind to it, I think overall in the aftermath of it. But I think when you look at the Lakers, I talked about it yesterday, them deciding who to start was gonna be big. They ended up starting small with three guards, the Angel Russell, Dennis Schroeder, as well as Austin Reeves. And I think going into game two, I'm very curious because Denver's a big team. They've got KCP, Aaron Gordon, Michael Porter, Junior, Yo-Kick, Jamal Murray. How do you match up with that physicality, that linked athleticism in the starting lineup? So Darvin Ham's gonna have some questions potentially to answer going into game two. I know you have a play you wanna share with everyone. Yeah, so there was a one play that stood out on me last night. And this is just things that the Lakers can't afford to do against the team. First of all, they can't have live ball turnovers like this. They have athletic wings like Pope, like Bruce Brown that can get in passing lanes and get in transition. Now, this is just the definition of perfect offense here. It's unselfish. Oh, I loved it. They share the ball. They don't care who scores the basket. And then if you watch the Lakers, nobody's sprinting back besides Austin Reeves and a little bit of Rui there. They can't afford these plays. Like I said, the Nuggets are way too good offensively. They share the ball. They make the extra pass. And now they have these athletic wings. They're making shots. The Lakers have to find a way to limit their transition buckets. But if they move the ball like this and they play this fast, this is going to be a quick series. Ooh. I think the number one thing is just the Lakers getting their legs under them. Okay. We, of course, I don't want to make excuses, but to be in that altitude after such a crazy series, last series, of course the guys are going to come in a little bit fatigued. And when you're going to be in such a great offense, I mean, it's a perfect combination to have a couple of tough role games. But I think one thing that occurs is the experience and, you know, the realization of, you know, the Bryan understanding, you can't go down 2-0. And, you know, I know guys hate seeing it, but I believe the Lakers are still locked in everybody's together and they're truly intentful on trying to win this game and figure it out. I mean, look, they were down 21 and it pains me to say anything positive at this point, but they only lost by six. So are you pessimistic or optimistic if you're Los Angeles? Well, I'm optimistic because they did make some changes. They put Rui on Yokoz. They didn't allow him to bring the ball up and he did a really good job trying to be physical with them and not letting it be so easy. And they did, they fought. They scrambled around. They started playing harder on defense. They started making shots. They were getting good shots early on when they were going through LeBron in the post. They just weren't making, they weren't knocking down the jumpers. So it's definitely at the end of the day, they got dominated for most of this game and they gave up 72 points in the first half. And this is the most points I think the Nuggets have ever scored in the history of their franchise through three quarters. So no team is gonna be able to sustain that and win many games, giving up that many points. Yeah, the Swiss to Rui is smart and you get AD off the ball. I think it also helped them rebound. Like they was getting killed, having to close out on shots and then Yokoz is in the paint, just grabbing every rebound in sight. They still got our rebound by 17 rebounds last night and the Lakers aren't accustomed to doing that. They won the Warrior Series by packing the paint, by getting the boards, by doing that. And Yokoz is just a monster. You have to accommodate for that if you're gonna do that. I think, look, there's simple fixes for the Nuggets. They can just outright post Yokoz on Rui. He can't do nothing about that, space out and get him doing it. They run pick and rolls with other guys. I think the answer that we eventually have to come down to is that the Lakers wanna play this style of defense and they want AD off ball away from Yokoz. It's gonna fall on LeBron. He's gonna have to be the guy who's gonna guard him. He's gonna have to be out there guarding pick and rolls and can he do it at this point? Even with Rui doing it, LeBron probably had to guard Michael Porter Jr. He's gonna move a lot off ball. He's gonna take a lot of shots. And they're gonna have to test him. So we're gonna see. I mean, I think LeBron will step up, but can he at 38 years old? I think this is the only time. Obviously it's this legacy. I think the number one thing is, they're so close to confidence factor and everything you factor in. I believe they're gonna figure it out. LeBron can step up, be able to defend. You remember back in the day versus Spurs, he's able to shut down Tony Parker in the final minutes. I don't remember that. Is that gonna happen? That's awesome. But for sure, they have their plate four right now. Their offense is clicking. The Nuggets offense is clicking. Everybody has to be ready to guard a full 48. I mean, something happened at halftime, right? Like something good happened in the Lakers locker room at halftime. Well, I mean, listen, they weren't gonna go get embarrassed. That already happened the first half. It was only up from there. And again, the third quarter, they scored, the Lakers scored 38 points and shot 75% from the field. So on the flip side, the Nuggets can't do that either. They have to keep their foot on the gas because they haven't been a great defensive team all year long, but there were some plays last night where I showed that they're bought into winning and then they won a contend and they want to win a championship this year. I don't think I've ever seen Michael Porter on the floor like I did at the end of the game. He was diving on the floor. He was getting in passing lanes. He was really, he blocked two jump shots last night. Jokic, again, was giving more effort and energy on that defensive end than I've ever seen him do. Brown, Pope, these guys. So it seems like they're locked in and making a collective effort to at least try to defend because we know what we're gonna get with their offense. They are so good. They are so unselfish. They play the right way. If they're doing both, as you can see, they're a scary, scary team. Lakers had an incredible second half offensively. They shot the ball really well. The problem was the Nuggets did too until they really locked up in the fourth quarter. It's crazy. They only lost by six points this game. It looked like it was over in the middle of third quarter. And if you remember that, Jokic's three that got quite the reaction out of AD and Jamal Murray hit a wild three in the fourth quarter at the end of the shot clock as well. That's six points. That's how you lose games. And sometimes it's that simple. It's like, yo, we couldn't stop them earlier and it's a wrap. If you're the Lakers, yeah, you feel good. I see people saying it was like a win for the Lakers and a loss for the, no, it was a loss for the Lakers. They lost the game one. What are we talking about? But yeah, they feel like they can compete with this team. They feel like they can beat this team. But they have to win game two. And I will say there was big, there was big, like Jeff Green, they cut it to nine. Jeff Green hit the corner, the corner three. They cut it to three or six points and Pope hit a big three. So they had their chances. They just needed one or two more stops. And they were right in this game. Austin Reeds hit two big threes to cut it to three. So they made plays and they put themselves in the situation to win this game. But again, it's hard to sustain that kind of deficit. Austin hits the big three to cut it to three. And he has another three, maybe two possessives later to tie it and misses that one. And that goes down. It's a different ball game. And we still haven't talked much about AD, but the fact, the type of game that he's had is gonna be super encouraging moving forward. Cause he had a great game, the close-out series versus the Warriors. But last night he even had a 40 piece. I think him being active, him being activated to be able to go in and continue to be assertive is going to be huge for the Lakers in the end, especially when the rest of their team shows up and starts making shots. A lot has been made, obviously, over the course of many, many years about playing in Denver and the altitude and all that. And people are gonna focus on stamina and specifically LeBron at 38. Do you think there's anything there? I mean, it's for sure something there. I mean, of course I felt like what happened at halftime was your second win kicked in. And you know, we spoke on before, he's gonna have to only get a day in between games to get a rest. So he's got to be ready, use, you know, a little bit of that million and a half on his body that he spends on budget each year to, you know, get him ready and get him going for game two because they gotta win this one. And also game two, I need more from Schroeder. I need more from Daniel Russell. They cannot get outplayed so badly by Bruce Brown and Cobo Poe. Bruce Brown, like, can we just for a minute? Man, he's gone. That was fun. He's, Dilo did the whole, I'm gonna shoot after the game, I'm wearing my unium, still shooting. You guys ever did this? Does this matter? No, I never did it, but like, I've seen tons of people that have done it and I didn't care about it. And we still focus on it. So like, let's not rag on Dilo. You know what I mean? He didn't throw a ladder down on a guy. No, of course. And like the shoot, like, how you gonna work on free? Like, with Yanis, he was working on free throws post-game, he shot 25 during the game. Yeah. You know what I mean? You got a lot of work early. You don't like that? Do we not like that? I mean, look, it shows he cares, I guess. It shows he wants to be better, but yeah, make him, we need him to make him in the game. Is there a practice gym in that arena? Like, they couldn't go to that one? I mean, look, Russell Wilson was in the crowd and he's notoriously cheesy about doing stuff like that and working out on the team plan and stuff. It's contagious. So I feel like, you know, it's contagious. It was in the air. That's all part of it. Big Nuggets fan, Russell Wilson. Oh, huge. Lifetime. Lifetime. Guys, you ready? Good night for you. Time to shift to the draft lottery. Oh, the greatest night in NBA history last night. Spurs winning it all. It's not just any draft lottery, by the way. It's the holy grail, the power ball of draft lotteries. Victor Wimanyama is going to San Antonio. I'm just, there is, sorry, Shoms, to carry the torch from Tim Duncan and David Robinson. There's been already a lot of time, I mean, look at, look at my hometown. This is just to watch a ping pong ball get picked. What is that? Buffalo Wild Wings. Jamie Shea, I mean, Goofy. Goofy, race for safe, baby. You're so stupid to shut up Buffalo Wild Wings. Best landing spot for Wimanyama. This is now going to be the question that we ask. Was this it? I think so, for sure. And again, he's not going to a good team, but he's going to a good organization. Intentionally good. There's nobody better for him to learn from than pop. And you know Tim, he's going to come around. You know David Robinson's going to come around. He's going to have these legendary bags that he can learn from. He already has the familiarity with all the French guys with Boris and Tony Parker owning his team in France. So again, this is the stars are aligned. He said this is where he wanted. This is where the whole country of France wanted him to go. No pressure. So this worked out. And it just shows that, I mean, the Spurs are very, very good at tanking because when they do it, they get a generational seven foot guy. We're clearly all saints because the karma was in the air. Oh, yes. By the way, what you don't see are my tears and sweat that were all part of the, I never thought watching Mark Tatum open up the envelopes was going to be so scary. I'll say too, I was more hyped to watch this lottery show than the actual game coming afterwards. I was standing up for it. I was getting drafted. It was insane. And by the way, sorry to anyone around me in the hotel because I did scream very loudly when it finally happened. I can't believe it affected me like it did because I didn't think there was a chance. It's been a long time since we had our last championship. So yes, we've been suffering. Yeah, baby. Sean Elliott was already ready to go home. Everybody's so happy. We're already planning ahead. Evan, what did you think? Did you roll your eyes? Were you like enough? And I was like, of course. I was more upset because they never gave my boy MJ a number one pick. You know what I mean? He always gets a second pick. He's had enough. This could have helped, but no, this is huge. I think it's going to be good for the game of basketball. Obviously it spurs. It's a great organization for Victor, the history of what Chandler said. I think it's going to do great. I think it's going to develop well. And number, what? Number six is kind of. Yeah, race for sace, ladies and gentlemen. Get ready for the hashtag. By the way, also shout out Dallas. You're lucky as always. Shams was there. Tell us about it. What was it like in the room? So Michelle, that bar scene that we just saw, I'm just figuring, trying to figure out, how did you make it back to LA? I know you were somewhere in there. Chandler's PJ. You're getting in. Good friend here. It was, it was the most surreal, probably lottery to be a part of, just because everyone knew the stakes. I went to the Zion Williamson Lottery as well, but there was, you could tell there was something more unique this year, especially with the teams involved. The Spurs weren't really in the mix for Zion that year, but I think this was massive. And when Peter Holt, when they got the number one pick, he literally got up. This is probably my most favorite part of the draft lottery. He got up, I don't know if they showed it on TV, but he got up and he was fist pumping. He kept saying, let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go. And afterward, I think the question around Peter Holt was, did he curse? Did he swear on national TV? He didn't. But Peter Holt, R.C. Buford, their GM, Brian Wright, they were elated, but he kept saying, let's go over and over and over again. You could hear it throughout the ballroom. He was pumped up and this is massive for the Spurs organization. They've been doing a lot of research. They've been embedded abroad, doing their research on all the European players, the broad players, like they always do, but especially with Victor Wemenyama, trying to make sure they research everything, they've no stone unturned. And this is a guy that's gonna be coming in with lofty, lofty expectations. One of the best prospects ever in NBA history, and I think for the Spurs, this is just massive. And so, Michelle, I know if you were saying, let's go and you're in your place, in your home, you definitely had some cuss words to it. Heck yeah, you do. Shout out to the Spurs. We're doing their due diligence and their research. They could have just asked me, that's the number one pick right there, buddy. That's the one you want. Look, I'm excited for them. I'm excited for POP because a lot of people are wondering what's next in his career. When is he finished? I personally thought, you know, he just wanted to win the gold medal. He's gonna stay off into the sunset. And now he has like a project for the next decade to be a part of, to build up his new Timmy, his new Tony, his new whoever it is. I just want to see him play. That summer league game when they play, if the Spurs play them, I wouldn't. I would keep them out of everything until it's time to play real games. I'm with you. That's gonna be a movie out there and I can't wait to see it. That's, yeah, that's all. By the way, do they even bring in Scoot or Brandon Miller for a workout? Do you? Or do they have no workouts? No, no. We're not talking to nobody. We're not even working him out. Like he's good, we're good to go. By the way, this is the quickest way to find out your hypocrite, which is what I found out last night. This entire time I've been like, this is too much pressure on a kid. I don't think we should build it up. The minute that envelope got over, I was like, we won it all! For sure. Because it's like, I'm a hypocrite and there's a lot of pressure on this teenage person, but man, it was fun to watch. He had a disposable camera last night with his family out in France at two o'clock in the morning. I loved it. It wasn't the only thing that happened last night. There were other teams there trying to do great things. We know how the Pistons have been tanking. They showed Ben Wallace, because he was the representative. He looked so awesome. I thought, uh-oh. And then they get the number five. Do you think this does anything to maybe decentivize tanking at all? I mean, I would think so. For the Pistons situation, they need as many assets as they can possibly get. So for that particular situation, I think they're going to do it regardless, but to only win 17 games and get the fifth pick. But I don't even know if they were tanking. They just weren't good. They just shut up. They couldn't think they could not win this year with that roster. So there's a difference in a good team resting their guys and tanking with the Detroit Pistons. I mean, they didn't play K towards the end of the year. Yeah, they had the recipe to fail this year. So I wouldn't even consider them tanking. They just knew they were going to lose. There are certain teams like Dallas, like Toronto, that kind of ended up tanking towards the end there that were actually good at basketball and that could make a run in the playoffs that didn't work out. But yeah, winning 17 games and getting the fifth pick. You go from maybe getting victor to one of the Thompson twins is a dramatic drop-off. But yeah, it's- Poor kids. Yeah, it's tough. 20 Thompson points. There you go. I just did the lottery similar eight times in a row. Wow. Didn't the Blazers miss it by like one ball or something it said last night too? Like they missed the number one pick by one number. Is that what it was? Yes. They ain't going to like that. They don't know what to do. You're going to work fine with that. They don't know what to do number one picks out there. Here's a question for you, Shoms. What pick in the lottery do the Spurs get next year is what we're all wondering. We're not all wondering that, Shoms. When Mianma said last night, he's trying to win a chip. I heard that. I heard that. I don't know if he's really focused on trying to get in the lottery. But I think, you know, being there last night, there was a powerful sense of like optimism with teams like the Spurs. And even to an extent, Charlotte, they moved up a little bit. But you could just tell around Detroit and around the teams that slipped out of the top three, especially being Detroit. I mean, Houston for sure also slipped a little bit as well. But Detroit was top two, top three odds. They slept all the way to five. I don't know if that's ever happened before. But definitely that there's heartbreak there when you don't get a chance to drive Victor, Mianma, or even the number two pick. And there was a lot of chatter this week. I'm here at the combine. There's a lot of chatter around executives that if the pisses had gotten number one, they were going to go all in aggressively with all their resources to go hire Monty Williams. At that point, with the number one pick, that would have been an extremely appealing job for Monty Williams. Alas, they end up with number five. Still a talented roster. I think Troy Weaver's done a good job. But there's heartbreak involved when you go from number one or number two to number five and in any lottery. Wait, so they're basically saying since we don't have the number one pick, we're not even going to bother embarrassing ourselves by asking Monty to come coach this team. Is that what they're saying? I'm saying that when you get the number one pick in this draft, it changes a lot. It changes which coaches might have interest. It changes the value. In some instances, I think it could have changed valuations of teams. Like imagine if Charlotte got the number one pick and you're Michael Jordan trying to sell your team. Do you ask for, how much more money do you ask for? 400 million, 500 million? I think that was definitely a question that team executives, league executives have been asking. Yeah, there were a lot of valuation comments last night about what having Victor Wimanyama does to a franchise. Look, the Blazers, I think were one of the lucky ones last night as well. They did get that three pick. Run, Pop, run! He might have been running like a retirement. He's like, no, now it's starting all over again. I love it so much. Do you think Dame stays in Portland now? Does this do anything for that? I think this might be go the other way. Like, we get Scoot Henderson, now we can shop Dame. Now we can get something for Dame. We can re-up with Amp Simons with Scoot or Brandon Miller with Shaden Sharp, your guy, and build to the future now. And it might incentivize them to do that. Had they got number one, it's a little different. Had they got number two, even. But number three, they're almost not getting to pick the guy, but it does set him up on a good place to build their future. I'm of the belief that he's out this summer. I don't know if he's gonna have to ask out. I don't know if he has his desired places. See Evan over there smiling, he might know a little better than me. Go on. But if I was running the team, I'd probably be a terrible GM because I'd be like, yo, this is the time to kick Dame to the curve. We got Scoot Henderson there. Or do you be a grand GM? And also as good as Victor is and as good as he's going to be, there's a good chance that Scoot is better right away. There's a really good chance that Brandon Miller is better. Like I think he's got better odds to be rookie of the year than Victor because this is a project. He's gonna, you look at his body, his frame. This is gonna take time. I don't think he's gonna be fantastic right away. We'll get him some enchiladas, some tagos. Yeah, exactly. Fatty mac is gonna be good. A lot of burger. Yeah, well, a lot of burgers are days. I think having Poppins as coach even makes that even more sure. Like he's gonna play that slow. He's gonna get him like he's done this before. This is not Tim Duncan coming out of four years at Wake Forest, ready to play in the finals immediately. Pop knows what he's looking at. He's gonna take his time. He's gonna get it right. And so yeah, I'm with you. I think, you know, Brandon Miller, Scoot Henderson, those are definitely the favorites for the rookie of the year next year. And Chet. And so it's like, let's get it going. And Chet. Well, he's had a whole year to poke up. No, absolutely. I'll tell you Diggy, but when you look at what Scoot Henderson is doing, I love Scoot. He's a man. Yeah, if they were to take him number one, I mean, you can't do that, of course, but physically, he's so gifted. But we get back to the Blazer situation. I like what they can do if they still keep Dame Luller. We forget how great of a player Dame Luller is and what he's able to do with the teams he had in the past. And if you use this third pick and some of the assets they already have, maybe you do get one or two good players in return. And with Dame Luller, he feels it. So he can win the championship in Portland with the right pieces. So I don't think there's anything around that camp saying trade Dame much more than being like, yo, how can we load them up with a team and assets? I'll be interested. I'll just not forget how good Dame was. I do not. I wake up at night first. It's like I think about it every night before I go to bed. By the way, the Mavs. Whew, there were New York Knicks fans all around, just come on, please, please. And then it didn't happen. So it was worth it, right? The tank was worth it. I mean, it was definitely worth it. But again, I think the system is kind of, it's fraud, right? Like a lot of teams have not ever had the number one pick and it just basically makes building a great team lucky. Like, you know what I mean? I think there's definitely some holes in the system. But yeah, the fact that Mark did this and it worked out was probably worth the fine, right? But it's funny, I was talking to someone in Dallas and you can say nothing and be quiet and you're good or you can tell the truth and you get fine. So it's a fine line of what's right, what's wrong. But in this case. That's a late lesson right there. Yeah, keep your mouth closed and you're fine. But yeah, this worked out for him and now they get to a top 10 pick and instead of losing it to New York. I can't believe that worked out for, I mean, I can, but I can't. Like it was very, very lucky. There was other news yesterday, not great news. Got guy lost his job. Doc Rivers fired by Philadelphia. Shoms, look, this happens every season. I feel like with Doc, but it finally did happen. Shoms, was anyone surprised? No, I mean, anytime that you finish the way that they finished it, lose a 3-2 lead. We know the numbers on Doc Rivers losing leads, but at the end of the day, Joel and B, James Harden in game six and game seven, they just did not look in sync enough offensively. Those two guys just needed one good game together to close out Boston. They couldn't come up with it. I spoke about it on Monday, just the lack of them figuring out their offense and their offensive schemes. They did not have that pick and roll with James Harden and Joel and B to be available. The Boston essentially let them pass the corners, test their shooters, and they got rid of their best threat, which was that pick and roll, that arguably the best pick and roll in the league. And so finding a new coach that can get the most out of both of those guys, I think will be a high priority. They're gonna look at all the normal names, the high level names, Mike Budenholzer, Nick Nurse, Monty Williams, Mike Dantoni, that's an interesting name. He has a lot of history with James Harden, PJ Tucker, Daryl Mori, but I believe this will be a process that will take time. I don't think they're gonna rush to something. I think this is gonna be an extensive process. And they're gonna have to work internally with their guys, with their players, with their staff for an office to make sure that they get this higher right. Somewhere Mike Dantoni's like, er, I don't know, what, I don't know. What is that about? Are you on another order often? I mean, good Lord, but look, this is always the question when a coach and a coach with a resume gets fired, was it the reason they lost to the Celtics? Or was he? No, was he the reason that James played bad? No, was he the reason that James played good and had 40 plus points in those two games? No, was he the reason Joellen B was the MVP? No, and it is, I understand the history in the past of Doc Rivers and blowing these, you know, these leads that he has and losing game sevens, but at the end of the day, coaches that are game managers, they need to know how to run a team, they know how to run substitutions at a timeouts, they need to run an offense, but at the end of the day, players are gonna play. And the number one thing that I learned in my career is they have to be a player's coach. It's a player's league, you have to get along, you have to be likable. And from guys that have played with him, I've never played for Doc. I have a great relationship with him, but guys that play with him, I think it's a little different. And there's some trust issues there and so there's some personality traits that don't sit well with players. So put this all on him after the season they had, I don't think that's fair, but I tweeted yesterday the coaching is just a cesspool, right? Like, let's fire this guy and let's go hire someone else that someone else just fired for doing the same thing we fired this guy for. Like how? It's like love. It pisses me off. Just pick it up, scraps. And that's why I will never be on that end of it. I like this side where we can sit here, dissect and point our fingers because it's such a player's league and it's really, really unfair. Coaches get tough things. That is, yes. Yeah, that's literally what they do. I mean, you can't blame it all on him but somebody has to go. It's not Joella, it's not Tyrese Maxi, it might be James Harden, but you have to make changes. I think, I always think, look, they had Doc there, then they hired Dale Maury as the president of basketball. You hire a president of basketball, they're always gonna wanna have their coach have their vision of the team. Started instilling his vision a little bit. James Harden made a big trade for him. PJ Tucker, he's had some shooters and even went and got Daniel House, his old friend. He's gonna want his coach and you always figured that. Now, who his coach is? That's, I get why people are saying Mike Dan, Tony, but all the candidates are the guys who just got fired. They just fired Nick Nurse who won a title. They just fired Monty Williams who went to the finals. It's like, oh, we want the guy that got fired from the other team and maybe he can do better with our guys and it just goes to say, they're not really doing all that bad jobs, they're just losing, I guess. And we end up with this. You need something else maybe, but now what do you think about Harden? Does he stay now or does he go or did this matter? I don't think he should go back to Houston. We talked about it yesterday. Go somewhere where it's worth your time, your last three or four years of your career, but I think the number one thing he has to do is just accept accountability. We always speak on this game. This is Kryptonite is game seven. Yes. So we leave every season. Ben Simmons left the season, Blame and die for how it turned out. You know, certain years other players have done that as well, but I think when it comes down to it, the players have to be accountable and just win the game. Doc is playing your position and giving you freedom to do anything you want and everything you want. So when it doesn't go your way, just say, yo, I messed up and call it a day and I say only James and I can't win with just us or we need five players out there. Like, no, you all make all the money, get all the headlines, all the trophies. Now get all the blame for it. I mean, or you just, you need to avoid game sevens. Yeah, that's another thing. Get it over with for that. Our expectations for head coaches. And I know it fluctuates from team to team and when, but do we think they're too high? I mean, again, like we just talked about, it doesn't all fall on them because they don't get the praise when their guys are all stars or their guys do advance. And again, they were one game away from going to the Eastern Conference finals and having a really good matchup against the Miami Heat. So I think it's more with the history of Doc and what he hasn't been able to do in these closeout games in the playoffs. But again, this all doesn't fall on him. I think a lot of times teams just do this for a breath of fresh air to mix it up, to change it up and think that they could kind of get the best out of the guys that the first guy didn't. But it's an unruly, unfair business, which I never hoped to be in. You know if you're a coach, you work every day like 20 hours a day. So why do you keep saying that's the reason you don't want to? Yeah, the schedule of an NBA player but the salary of an NBA coach. I'm out. Shoms, great job. I'm jealous you were in the room last night. This is our Friday. So we will see you on Monday bright and early. I thought of you, Michelle. Thank you. That makes me happy. Oh, Lurt. We're taking a quick break. We come back for basketball tonight. We will preview the Eastern Conference finals. Oh, well that's a prediction. The NBA Eastern Conference finals to be off tonight is the Miami Heat face off against the Boston Celtics. But why just watch? When you can earn a share of 10,000 bucks in cash prizes, when you enter the DoorDash Conference Finals challenge on Fanduil, all you have to do is draft your best lineup of five players ahead of the matchup while staying under the salary cap. Fans with the highest scoring lineups will win their share of cash prizes. Enter for free on Fanduil.com today. Another game tonight, Eastern Conference Finals getting underway. Any chance, a legit chance that this Miami Heat team can pull this thing off, Chandler? Yeah, I'm not sleeping on the heat. I think there's a chance. I don't think they're the favorites, but listen, everything they've been through this season, the ups and downs, the play-in tournament, everything they've overcome with the injuries of Tyler Hero and Victor Eladipo, they're right there. And Jimmy Butler is a bona fide star. He's been one of the best players in the playoffs, but I look forward to that too. Bam out of bio. He's got to be big. He's got to be aggressive. Look at the Boston Celtics. I'm Horford, Robert Williams. They really don't have anybody to handle him. I'd love to see him come out of the gates early. You know what you're going to get from Jimmy. You know the two wings on the other side on Boston are going to have great games and have exploded for a lot of points, but I would love to see Bam kind of control the paint, be versatile and do his thing because they really don't have anybody for him. Yeah, now I think it's doable, but they're going to have to play damn their perfect. Jimmy's going to have to be electric. I think Bam's going to have to show up and the others are going to really have to chip in. Matt Shruce is going to have to hit his shots when Duncan Robinson get in. He's going to have to make plays along with Caleb Martin. And then they're going to have to do their job on the other end defensively because you see Tatum averaging 28 a night. Jalen Brown's coming in, getting a 25 plus. And then every now and then you got Marcus, Mark, his shots and it's a loaded team to go after. So it's going to be a full 48 minutes. And I think, you know, if they duke it out, you know, he, they're cultured. They always have a chance. He cultured. Boston has the most talent left in the playoffs, I believe they have the most explosive offense, even with Jokic doing the things he's doing over there on the right night. These guys hit 20, 25 threes. Can't beat that. I think he got a five fire or fire. They need Kevin Love to shoot better than 20% from three in the 15 minutes he's playing. They need Max Shruce to light it up. They need Duncan Robinson. I'm wondering how late in this series we can start talking about Tyler Hero coming back. Initially they said the finals. Now they're saying maybe late Eastern Conference finals. He's in a soft cast. People are getting excited. They need that extra gun. They need that against this team. Is it doable? Yes. But they're rightfully the underdogs for sure. Coming back for a smirk of smirk, all six weeks of rest, that's... Not good. You might have to maintain sanity. Just the playoff. I just said, I just said. Bam, bam, come screen. I need to help me. It's not ideal. Hit him hard. Come get him, big fella. Are we worried though, at all, this Celtics team and the pressure of being the favorites? I don't, I have to talking to the young kid. I think he's ready. I think he'll be prepared. I think, you know, last year, they're still hungry. I have a bad taste in their mouth from giving up a 2-1 lead. I think they thought like after getting there, where, you know, the expectations are realistic. So this is a familiar foe and they comprehend that they're up and, you know, Tyler Hero's not playing and they have all their players right now in the Celtics. And I think they're gonna try to go in and close this out within five. Yeah. And they were just battle tested against Philly, right? And they had their back against the wall, but this team is poised to win a championship. They're great offensively. They're great defensively. They're deep. They have that guys that have been here before. I don't see this series going very long, but again, I've been sleeping on the heat all your longings butler and they're doing some special things. So who knows? Yeah, buddy, on that graphic right there, losing the finals last year did something to him. So they're gonna be ready. They're gonna be ready. And I think they know if they handle business here, there's a long series happening on the other end right there. You get a nice week of rest before the finals start, June 1st, I believe. Let's lock it in, let's get it done. I think they're gonna be focused. I don't know, this heat team, I think I'm a believer. Something happened. It's weird. You got the heat winning this year? I mean, I just don't feel like this is a sure thing as maybe some do, or as those numbers would tell you, but yeah, it feels like it'll be closer than it is. Guys, break time. When we return, 2012, NBA champion, Steven Jackson is here. We've got questions for Jackson. It's gonna be good. We are back, 2003 champion. I'm fired. Steven Jackson in studio today, co-host of the All the Smoke podcast with horse with Matt Barnes, a ginormous podcast, to say the very least. Oh my goodness, buddy. I know you love mornings. So do we, as you can tell. Okay, I know we're gonna get to the draft lottery last night, because it's a big moment, but I know there was a lot made of... I'm gonna ask you, which part is it? Well, you are now, because you mend it. I mean, you're good. Yeah, we're good. How did that all happen with us? Well, nothing, actually, we haven't had any conversations. It's just, you know, times pass, things happen. You know, I forgive them. They did give me an opportunity to win the championship, but you know, I had to let them know what they did. You know what I mean? A lot of people didn't understand how my career ended with San Antonio. I had to tell those stories. Let me ask you this though. In the same, in the interview you did with Jean-Té Murray, you did reference women in San Antonio being, man, you want to talk about that with me? Yeah, I live there, and you know, one thing about me, I like my women a friar way from being fat, right? I do. I like my women with some meat on them, right? So, in San Antonio, it was just perfect for me, you know, all the women that I like to eat, you know, it's one of the leading cities in obesity in Texas. Don't you use the word... It's just the truth, it's just the truth, but you know, it worked for me because I'm from Texas, so I was used to it. I know, we're allowed to say it, guys, not y'all. We would not be fighting the same thing. No, no, no. We would not be arguing over that. I'm a country boy, I'm a country boy. But obviously we know all the expectations with Victor, going number one, most likely going to the Spurs. What can he expect, you know, playing in that system, that city for pop, everything that comes with it? I think the biggest thing for him that he's going to be in a system where everything is professional is a championship organization that used to win and they do everything by the book. They're going to have everything he needs for him to be successful and be the best player he needs to be. I think it's the best situation for any young kid coming into the NBA is going to that family orientated, San Antonio Spurs organization where you're going to get the best out of everything there. Look, I'm going to pivot a little bit. We don't talk about Spurs all day. John Murray, this is just something you've been outspoken about. And I know people say a lot of times, yo, Vets in the locker room would help and stuff isn't happening in the locker room. But if you were his vet, like what would your advice be to him in this situation you've had, you know, in a situation you just spoke about as well? What's going on? Like, what do you tell somebody going through this? Well, you know, at the same time, you can have Vets, but you have to want to do right by yourself first, right? So when I made mistakes, you know, I did have Vets to tell me like, okay, look, one more incident and it's over. Guys like Reggie Miller, guy like Steve Smith. So I was able to make some drastic changes in my life to be where I'm at today because I cared about the people around me. I didn't want to be selfish and make decisions that I heard people that I take care of. You know, I care about people around me. So I wanted to continue to be the protective provider that I was raised to be. So he has to make that decision on and sit down and look in the mirror like, okay, I'm being selfish to do these things. This is the second time it doesn't show maturity at all to do something so stupid again, where, you know, and then it's self-inflicted. It's not nothing that somebody's doing or baiting him in to do it. He's doing it on his own. So I think it's nothing that a veteran or anything can do it. At this point, he has to look in the mirror and understand what's that jeopardy. And he has to make these decisions. His dad can't tell him anything. His mom can't tell him anything. This is all on him. The second time, I think everything that's happening, the blame, the trouble he's going to get in suspension, all that needs to sit in his lap. And he needs to deal with this time to understand what's his fate. Because last time the little slap on the hand of fake meetings he had with people, none of that, I knew none of that worked because they tried to make me meet with people. You know what I'm saying? We got in the brawl. You know what I'm saying? That didn't do any justice for me. So he has to own up to this and sit down and look in the mirror and understand that, okay, I made this mistake now. I have to deal with it. Whether the suspension, whether it's missing it all year, he got to deal with it. Nobody can help him this time. Wait, what do you think the league should do suspension wise? How much? Well, I've been a guy who lost three million for one punch. So I really don't want to get into that side of it. Who's the hell to punch? You know what I'm saying? I was helping somebody. I was actually helping a teammate too. You know what I'm saying? Y'all were going 12 on $18,000 in your head too. You're outnumbered. Suspension, whatever it is, Michelle, whatever it is, I just think that it needs to be something that is going to make him realize what he has to stake because eight games didn't do it. You know, talking to people didn't do it. It has to pay a point where, because for me, when I got to spend it 30 games and the game was taken away from me, I really had to sit down like, shh, damn. And that's what really hurts. Money, the friends, all that. Take the game away from him and see what happens. Yeah, honestly, it's sad to me that this kid has it all, right? He's got 230 million guaranteed. He's so talented. He's one of the most successful, fun to watch players in the league. And there's a small window for you to maximize that and to see him do it the first time and now to do the same thing again. Like you said, it was self-inflicted. It's not like TMZ got him, right? So this is just immature. It's ignorant. It shows his apology. It really didn't mean much because he just went. He surrounds himself with horrible people and I hope he gets better. And I hope, cause I mean, he's great for the league, right? He is so talented. He is fun to watch. But man, you can't, you're a role model. So many kids are watching. You can't put this message out there, right? I have a nephew, bro. I don't mean to cut you off, but I have a nephew. Epso, my brother passed at the end of last year, my little brother. And he's a big John Merritt fan, right? He wears his hair like him, dresses like him, everything. I reached out to Jai and so my brother, my little brother nephew really wants to meet you. He's going through a tough time, just lost his dad. He reached out. So he's a good kid. You know what I'm saying? He's a good kid. I just think that a lot of times when kids from our area fall into money, we want to be gangsta. We think that money makes us gangsta. And that's totally the opposite. I come from it and I made it a point for me to try to get away from it because I know how hard it was being in that life. And a lot of times when you see kids do that, they're trying to be something or not. Because the guys that really care guns growing up, they were trying to get out that life. So for him to do that, it shows that he's influenced by the wrong type of people, by the wrong type of music, and he should be the one influencing others instead of being influenced by nonsense. No, I mean, y'all say it all. I definitely agree. I think everything with a pro athlete and a position you're in, it's just accountability and the direction that you want to go. And with Jai, I think one thing that's occurring is he's going from being the young, cute puppy kid that everybody loved to now being a man and comprehending that he has to take over the organization and franchise and the whole league to really set the tone and slow everything down and be like, yo, this is how we're going to do things now. When he says a quote, everybody says it. When he does a dance, everybody does it. So I think he has to be cognizant of that at all times and be like, yo, I just got to at least do all my dumb stuff inside the crib with no phones. You know what I mean? And elevate to a businessman in an icon like he really is. The first time this happened was a lot more favorite for him around the league. A lot of guys would say, hey, I get it. You know, this time it's a lot more of like, hey, fool me once, you know what I mean? But I'm talking to players around the league like, yo, you said it earlier, he's a provider. He has too much responsibility. He has Nike, he has the NBA, he has Powerade, he has all these situations that are built on him, including his family and all that stuff. Now everybody's like, all right, dog, like what are we doing now? And he's going to have to live with that, like you said, and if they take away the game from him, they take away all that, he's going to have to look with the end. And I think, you know, we might finally be at that point, hopefully. And just to change pace, obviously I got a question for you. If you were James Harden, where would you be hooping that picture? Oh. What a side step there. You stay in Phillies, styled by the Lylas, or would you go down? Yeah. But they a little bit thicker, like you said. You know, one thing about Houston, they love James and Houston. They love him and Houston. But if you're him, don't you go and just retire there in four or five years? Why would you go to this and? Because it ain't the same. But you ain't, you're not winning there. Triple double leave after party. The streets is waiting for it. He has a restaurant there, restaurant 13. I think for him, man, it depends on what he wants out the rest of his career. Does he want to run his numbers up and have a good time and build his legacy in Houston? Does he want to stay in Philly? And with his guys, Dan Foney, and if he comes, and Darren Moore and lose for the rest of his career, because that's what's gonna happen. If Dan Tony ain't won nothing, I don't know why they think about bringing him in and bringing them back together. What have they won together? Nothing. I don't know. I don't know why they even think bringing that up. Dan Tony's the only guy that keep getting jobs that ain't won nothing. I don't, that just hurts me to death, bro. But if he stay in Philly, it's gonna really depend on what coach. It's gonna really depend on what coach. You know, they blamed everything on Dock and Dock does have a bad track record of being a three one. I can't go against that. But if I was James, I would find a situation where I can be me, but also win. And I think that's definitely not in Houston. It might be in Philly, who knows where it is, but not Houston. No. He ain't gonna win it here. Yeah, just retire there. Yeah. That's it. If you wanna chill, it's cool. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. Let's talk about you a little bit. The show with Matt Bond, All the Smoke, one of the biggest podcasts in the world in these shows. At what point did you two come together and say, hey, let's do this? And when did you know that was the move for you? I think it was just a timing thing. I was doing Fox and ESPN at the time, and Matt was as well. And a lot of the shows, you know, we were doing good and bringing a lot of attention to a lot of shows. We was like, man, we need to do our own show. And we were just sitting and smoking one day and we were talking about the show. And it's such to say, y'all need to come over to the show, like name it All the Smoke. She came up with it. Matt had a great relationship with Ellen Reckerton. She's one of the creators of Red Table Talk. She brought us to Showtime with Brian Daly. We pitched the idea two weeks later, well, maybe a month later, we're doing a photo shoot for the show. And, you know, it's really tall out fans, man. I think for me and Matt, people love us because we wear our emotions on our sleeve. Everything we go through in life, we talk about it. We don't hide about it. And a lot of people that come on our show, they feel like they can do the same thing, say things they've been wanting to say and get stuff off their chest. So the reason for our success has been for our support from our fans, but a lot of our guests that come on and tell good stories and, you know, give us a lot of stuff that nobody knew about them. So it's been a blessing from Showtime and the shots out to Matt for bringing us together. Yeah, pull up, man. I know it's early. Yeah, pull up, man. Yeah, he the boss, man. He do, hey, I don't mind getting up because he gonna do all the hard stuff. He gonna do all the meetings. He gonna make sure the money, right? The contract, right? That's smart. Yeah, I like that. I do the dirty work. Yeah, you go. I went on your show. I had a great time. We had a great time. We had a great time. Might still be hot. And you gave us the best Kobe story we've had on our show. Thank you, thank you. The best Kobe story. That was crazy. That was all facts too. That was not gassing that. But besides me, who were you most looking forward to chopping up on your show? Because you've had some crazy list of guests. My favorite guest, well, I have two, Will Smith and Jim Gray. Jim Gray has been like a mentor of mine for the last five, six years. He talked about him in his book and he's somebody who I talk to a lot, even with the boxing space now. I'm learning a lot from him. But Jim Gray has some of the best stories. He's been around so long. Muhammad Ali's first and last interview. He got a lot of great stories of sports, man. But Will Smith's first interview was right after the Chris Rock. Oh dear. And also, when he just dropped the Emancipation movie, it was an excellent movie. Antoine Foucault, it was a great movie. And just been able to talk to him and he announced on the show that he's producing my documentary with Westbrook. Yeah, so that interview was just great. To be able to meet him and to pick his brain. Jax, this has been a pleasure and an honor. All the smoke, I don't even know, I don't need to promote it. It's one of the biggest podcasts out there. It's been great to see you. I know you're busy. It's been a while. It's been a while. It's been a while. We're gonna come back and wrap things up really, really, really quickly. We're gonna run it back for chance. Yeah, give up, yeah, not. Run it up, run it back, run it up. Run it back, run it back, run it back, run it back. Time for the NBA playoffs and you can get in on the action right from Chipoff with Fandle right now. All customers can get a no sweat, same game parlay every weekend when you bet the NBA playoffs. That's right, place a three plus leg same game parlay or same game parlay plus on any NBA playoff game and you'll get bonus bets back if you don't win. There's no better place bet all the playoff action than America's number one sports book. Download the app, get a no sweat, same game parlay every weekend of the NBA playoffs. Fandle, official sports betting partner of the NBA. Guys, we did it. Another week in Los Angeles. Anybody wanna share something really quickly in four seconds? Racing to the airport, me and you. Same Z's. Celtics by double digits tonight. Double digits? I got it. 40 for JT, 40 for JT. That's gonna do it for us. We'll be back Monday, 10 Eastern. Enjoy the weekend. Yeah, yeah, run it up, run it back, run it up, run it back.