 Okay, we're live. Hey guys drew here that anxiety guide calm We're back for another episode with my good friend Holly coming all the way to us from my orca So for those of you that did not see our first little installment in this we are taking Hope and help for your nerves Which is like the gold standard in all panic disorder and I think anxiety disorder books or beginner books anyway Dr. Claire Weeks and we are going to go through the book chapter by chapter Holly and I together Um, and we hope that you're going to grab a copy of the book or an audio copy Whatever it happens to be and follow along with us. So Holly this week We're going to talk about chapter two and all the chapters in the book are really short. This one is super Literally like five minute read tops And the chapter two is called how our nervous system works and dr. Weeks goes through The basics of how our nervous system makes us feel the way we feel when we are having Experiencing anxiety and panic So she talks about the fight or flight response and how that all works and what's voluntary and what's involuntary So I guess let's go through it. I think this is Holly and I we're talking before we went on the air here And we're talking about how while this is a really simple and short topic to cover And holly jump in anytime. I think it's super critical because this is the foundation upon which so much is built so many people get stuck on the physical part of Panic disorder panic attacks anxiety disorders and it's really not about the physical part But in order to get past that you have to understand physically what is going on get a grasp on it and understand that it's natural and not dangerous Yeah, it can feel like such a sort of mysterious thing that's going on to you But actually when you can sort of unravel that mystery in this chapter kind of thing, isn't it? It sort of explains everything why you're feeling like you're feeling And it's not actually that mysterious No, it's not mysterious and it's not dangerous So when you start to feel these these things and we'll go through it for a few minutes But when you start to experience anxiety and or even panic and you start to get out of control that way Your heart is racing. You're sweating. You're feeling hot or cold. Your legs are getting rubbery We all know the symptoms because we all experience them They're just natural processes that are happening in your body It's the way your body has evolved over a few million years to actually work if you need to be saved The problem is these things are happening at an inappropriate time So it's a completely natural response to a perceived danger And you really have to get to the point where you can understand and perceive those sensations as natural and Expected and predictable and measurable and not at all indicative of any real danger So the symptoms are just misplaced really is what's going on here. Exactly Yeah, so she talks about the flight fright or freeze. Do you want to get started that way? I think or Yeah, yeah the flight fright freeze to be honest in the book The book was written a very long time ago. And so if you're just reading the book It is almost a little bit hard to get your head around about what she's talking about And so I think these days we actually understand sort of the physiology of What's going on in in the sort of adrenaline flight or fright or freeze sort of stage so I'm I'm straying just slightly from what she's written here. And I think we should just explain the sort of the modern day understanding of flight fright That's probably good The book is probably I think the book is more than 50 years old now. It was written in the 60s, I believe. Yeah the 1960s At least yeah, it's at least 50 years old and it's not that our human physiology has changed But there's so much special with the internet now You can google for days and days and days to learn about these things and and So she takes a very cursory overview of it, but I think what she does is sufficient to understand Um, you know, what's going on and to stand to learn not to be afraid of it I think so that's what we're here. Yeah So the flight or Fights that's the flight or fights or freeze Is this is a sort of fizzy physical state that our body gets into if it Thinks that we're in danger if our, you know, brain has perceived that there's danger And we need to run away Or fight it off or like play dead and just freeze like, you know animal if you see animals in the sort of headlights and stuff That's you know, that's what they do. That's the sort of natural thing and um, so That's and it's governed by basically like It's governed by a part of our subconscious brain That just sends out a sort of um hormone. Is it a hormone adrenaline? Yeah, yeah, it alternates hormones Yep, it is So the nervous system is sending our well, they're involuntary nervous Like you said sort of a subconscious or they call them involuntary nerves for a reason Right, we can't control them Yeah, and this part of our nervous system will send signals to our endocrine system Things like adrenal glands, pituitary glands to secrete hormones into our bloodstream that changes the way our body works Yeah, it's all triggered by the brain because our nervous system will send signals to glands that Secret hormones that change the way we're functioning of elevator heart rate or that sort of stuff Yeah, and so some of the things that that adrenaline does when we get that rush is that it speeds our hearts up because So that we can like run faster or like, you know use our muscles and stuff it Will Takes away the blood supply from anything that's not super important like your stomach You don't need to be digest in your food whilst you're running away for your life So it's it diverts the blood away from that and basically puts it towards all your muscles Which is one of the reasons why you shake because there's so much Like energy in your muscles to be used if you go for a sprint when you're having a panic attack He'll go really fast, but yeah Yeah, yeah So that's true. So blood flow is being changed to different places So once and I think the key thing here is to understand that it is and in the in the chapter She talks about voluntary versus involuntary nerves and she uses the term nerves. It's such a dated You know, like it's a very dated thing to take it for based on the time that she wrote the book but Voluntary versus involuntary nerves and trying to understand that this is involuntary So the way this gets triggered when we perceive some sort of danger So the way I usually like to talk about it if somebody quickly, you know, pull the loaded gun and pointed it directly at you That's the danger and these signals would be sent by your out of your involuntary nervous system There's danger. We need to get into fight or flight mode to save ourselves The signals get sent. We can't stop them from happening once they happen You know the adrenal glands are going to work the pituitary gland is going to work and these things are going to happen to your body So once that flash happens your heart rate is up. You're breathing heavily. You're sweating. You're shaking your Your pupils dilate so your vision gets kind of wonky and these are all the things that we would expect to happen They're predictable and measurable and natural It's exactly what your body has evolved to do And we're basically reacting to a perceived danger or a threat. It just said in our case People like us. There's no actual danger. It's it's it's misplaced But I think the important thing to remember is what holly said it is involuntary Um, you can't stop it and I think once it happens you have to learn what it is Understand what it all feels like and and really begin to to believe that it's not dangerous It's not this how you feel is not going to kill you. It's a symptom of what you've perceived It's not the actual problem. How you feel one of one of the best things I read on this is that if it's like the analogy of if you're Just a normal person and someone jumps out of a wardrobe and goes boom at you, you know And you're really not expecting it you go like whoa And you know you feel that sort of whoosh of just like oh my god And then when you realize it's not actually like someone is just like your sister jumping out on you or something You go like oh, okay And then it takes maybe like a minute for you to sort of like feel normal again that's sort of like How every panic attack starts with that whoosh And but what the difference is in people that suffer like we do is that instead of going whoosh Oh, no way. It's just it's not actually a real danger. It doesn't get so it would go away. We go whoosh. Oh my god It's a panic attack. This is dangerous because we're so scared of panic attacks. And so therefore This is where the cycle and the pattern of fear comes in and Because we get that whoosh and we go. Oh my god. I'm having panic attack Then you go then the brain goes. Oh my god. I heard you say. Oh my god. It's a panic attack That must mean you're really in danger. I'll send more then I'll keep sending more and so it's sent more and more adrenaline So it doesn't stop because if it was just that initial Whoosh of somebody jumping out of the wardrobe about you you would then realize it's not actually dangerous And it would start to very quickly go away Like the adrenaline would sort of leave your body quite quickly Although so you've still got no Control over it first happening. You still go like oh my god, you know like and you feel all those sort of weird symptoms But it's so fleeting That's actually all that's really happening in a panic attack. It's exactly the same response. It's just that It's prolonged because you're still thinking that's dangerous and I think that that's a function of the interpretation so Interesting and I have to just throw this out there Well, I won't throw it out. They'll throw it at the end. But I was speaking to a friend of mine A couple weeks ago and she said She said to me because she knows that I deal with anxiety and panic attack She said it was odd Suddenly I found out of the blue and this person doesn't have a history of panic attacks or anything like that She said her heart was really racing just started racing on her And obviously she was kind of she was obviously anxious or a little bothered by something And she had a bit of a physical reaction to it But the way she described it was perfect Her heart started racing and she said well something must be up I'm I'm nervous about something and she just sat there in her car and waited for it to stop and guess what it did So it went away because she doesn't interpret that sensation She interpreted that sensation as being indicative of something bothering her. She's being anxious about something So okay, my heart's racing and she just waited for it to go away and sure enough within a minute or two It does go away because adrenaline is self limiting It doesn't go on forever and we could talk about that maybe in another episode, but Yeah, it's the interpretation. So when we feel that our heart is racing. We're having a hard time breathing Our vision gets weird. We're shaking and all this stuff As we should really interpret that as well. This is my body telling me that I think I'm in danger But instead we interpret the symptoms as the danger So the feelings become the danger and they are not and that's when your cycle kicks in Oh my god, my heart is racing. So I'm in trouble. I'm in danger when you're really not and that could be for I think people have different sort of fear responses as well So they might fear that like they might just fear the panic attack and go like, oh my god I don't want to have a panic attack. This is awful. And so they perceive that as a danger They might think Oh my god, it's not a panic attack. I'm actually having a heart attack this time And so they think that's a danger or they are tricked by the sort of anxious thoughts that come along with You know the panic attack a lot of the time where it just tricks you into thinking like no You're definitely in danger this time this time never mind the 99 million times this has happened to you before This is the one That you should really be worried about, you know, and and that's because we sort of fall for that You know, like it just perpetuates it and it's that pattern of yeah, it's just a pattern of fear That's true. And I think just trying and again, I keep beating a dead horse here a little bit But understanding that these things are involuntary So that perception of fear is going to kick off that cycle. You can't stop it once it's happened It's happened And I I see so many people who spend a tremendous amount of time trying to stop the physical sensations from happening But once you have that flash of panic and you get into that mode There's no way you're just going to have to ride it out and it will stop pretty quickly So even in the worst panic attack I can probably have these days I can be assured that it's over within about 10 minutes tops Yeah, um, you know, you're tired afterwards and you're still feeling shaky and whatnot But it's going to go away if you don't interpret the way your body feels as being the danger itself Or you don't interpret it as well this time It must really be a heart attack or a stroke even though it hasn't been the other 10 000 times So it's really a cognitive thing and that's why I've said in the past Panic attacks are physiological, but panic disorder is cognitive. There's two different things here Yeah, absolutely I think it's important that people realize that although it's involuntary and you can't stop it You can stop the prolonged bit of it by jumping in you've got to be your own sort of like Wait a minute. Yes, that's exactly right You know, and so that's where you have to start learning, you know, if you understand it's involuntary This is just natural. My body is do oh here we go again. It's doing it again You know inappropriately or at the wrong time if you can relax into it It will self limit and begin to go away and then when you learn that it then the sensations I think I don't know if you'll agree with this but for me now that I have learned how to do that If my I do feel my heart race or for me dizziness is a big symptom You know, that's one of my big symptoms You know, I can get a little bit dizzy and it doesn't completely freak me out I don't interpret that as anything but here it goes again And sure enough, you know, I'll just ignore it and go about my business and relax and sure enough It goes away in a couple of minutes. So Um, I think that's super important and it doesn't feel as intense anymore So even though my heart might be doing 110 beats per minute during a panic attack And it's it used to do that the same 110 beats 110 doesn't feel nearly as pounding as it used to Like for some no, absolutely the sensations don't feel as strong as they used to feel So yeah, I always think of it when I feel those sort of symptoms come on I just think of it as the someone jumping out the wardrobe at me. I'm just like oh Oh, okay. It's just that whoosh, you know, I can deal with that The initial flash the initial flash exactly. Yeah I think again for chapter two, we can't control it. This is not something that we can learn to control You can't stop it and when we start to talk about the way you address these things in future chapters It's really important to keep this part in mind that it's involuntary It's going to run its course when it's going to run its course You can't make it you could make it last less by not adding more fear Like you were saying by by breaking the fear cycle But you can't stop it necessarily from happening once it's it started So I think as we talk about future chapters and what dr riggs says we're supposed to do the whole floating and letting time pass thing Those things are not designed to stop this dead in its tracks. There's no there's nothing that will instantaneously stop the sensations It doesn't exist And I think that's why some people struggle with the idea of that they think that the cure is to be Completely panic-free because it isn't because you can't ever stop that initial thing if you're stressed out You know, I still get it like if i'm stressed I'll get symptoms of you know that anxiety and panic come on and then I go Oh, it's because i'm stressed like of course because this is going on or this you know And and so I still get it but it doesn't turn into this big horrible long Sort of life changing sort of disorder, you know, it's just like It's like just feeling a bit dizzy or feeling For like a little bit for like a few hours or an hour or 10 minutes of the day, you know So like I think some people struggle with the idea that They think that the cure is to be completely panic-free and so That's the answer, but it's not actually it's to not allow that That first whoosh to turn into like a big long horrible destructive whoosh That is exactly correct. That is exactly Like if you if you hear nothing in this thing just listen to what holly just said And it's hard because I do see people spend a tremendous amount of time and effort and Money and all kinds of things trying to address the physical sensations I need something to stop my heart from racing. I need something to stop the dizziness. I hear magnesium helps I hear this herb helps. I hear that herb helps. I hear whatever helps And they're just they're really trying to address the symptoms of anxiety as opposed to You know what really is driving that fear cycle. So you're right. You have to understand it's involuntary It's just a natural thing. This is what your body is meant to do and the way to do this is to break that fear cycle And we'll get into that in you know future chapters I think yeah, and I think we'll be talking about the physical symptoms in other and thinking a few chapters time She goes through each um physical symptom and describes why it's happening and all that sort of stuff. So just like I get to unravel the mystery of like, yeah, but why am I feeling like this and you know, Right, right. It's just nice to break those those symptoms down as well as a sort of irrelevant as they are It's just nice to know that it's all still part of just this adrenaline that's in your body and nothing else You're absolutely right. I agree with that because the underlying Concept behind all of those individual symptoms and we've all been guilty of that. We all go through each one What is the heart racing heart? What is the breathing? What is this? What is that? We try and play whack-a-mole and knock each one But underneath it is this concept of involuntary versus voluntary Operation of your body and if you just understand that you can't control it necessarily you just it's just natural It's not dangerous and then we can go through each symptom as she does and address But each one of those is within the framework of this concept Which is it's just a natural way that your body deals with a perceived danger. That's all And it's actually there to save you this flight of fight responses to save your life When you actually really need it when you physically need to do something to save your life Especially in like the old caveman sort of days, you know Where it's like there's a bear I need to run away quick Then you'd be very grateful for that adrenaline That's true. And those were the days when you didn't you don't need to digest food at the moment You have to stop being someone else's food. So I need to get out of here. So I'm not someone else's meal Exactly. Yeah, so that's really what it's all about. It's a very primal part of the human brain It's it's not going away anytime soon And even me well, maybe we should not mention it so much because she doesn't really talk about medication so much in the book No, she does she just isn't in one chapter, but but otherwise not that much But I think a lot of time and well, I'll just sort of briefly mentioned it It's it's a hot topic. Of course, it's we don't think we have to get into it But many people spend a lot of time trying different medications and they're all geared toward this So almost every bit of medication that we have out there Especially the the benzos and the tranquilizers and that sort of stuff is really geared toward knocking down the severity of this This involuntary fight or flight nervous and endocrine response That all we're really doing in that case is just beating that down or dampening what your body is naturally supposed to do So we're just in that case. I'll go on a limb here And I know it's people don't like to hear when I say it, but you're really just treating a symptom as opposed to treating What's really causing the problem when you do that Um, so anyway, and then the antidepressants are really they're More targeting stopping that initial signal from happening So benzodiazepine is going to try and knock down that that sympathetic and nervous response that involuntary nervous Antidepressants are going to try and stop it from happening in the first place. Oh, okay Yeah, but either way we're trying to just we're really just trying to stop the symptoms as opposed to trying to stop the cognitive distortion that fuels So I have to throw it out there. That's what I do. What can I do? No, absolutely Oh, yeah It's so much. I mean if you can crack the cognitively then it's great because if you run out of tablets, it doesn't matter And if you don't stop working like it doesn't matter. I agree 100 percent All right, so I think I mean it was a short chapter. I think we've said about all there is to say about involuntary nervous response Oh, just very briefly. I think parasympathetic. She talks about sympathetic and parasympathetic nerves Um, and if you read it and you start to google around you go to hear about something called I'm going to mention this because people get freaked out by a parasympathetic rebound. So Parasympathetic rebound in the case of panic attacks. It's not truly what it is, but um after a panic attack a lot of times I know I feel like I am just wiped out like after even if I've done a good job with it And I've managed it really well. I do feel very tired. You get that you kind of swing the other way A lot of people do anyway where you feel drained. You feel weak. That's yeah, of course, right There's that parasympathetic shift back to a relaxed state. It almost overcompensates a little bit But when you see the term parasympathetic, there is a thing called parasympathetic rebound That is kind of a dangerous thing and that has nothing to do with this at all So I sort of need to throw it out there because when people see the word parasympathetic, they're going to google They're going to see that and they're going to freak out a little bit But that has nothing to do with what's going on when you have a panic attack. Just be aware of that. That's all Okay, and that's how I can't really think of much else beyond that I mean, well, I guess we'll be back for the next chapter as soon as we can Yeah, you have euro cup football to watch are we? Yeah, I've got wales versus portrait. Come on wales. Come on wales I am european football literate, but I'll root for wales too. How's that? Yay I mean, this is the semi-finals. This is huge. It's huge. So we need to free up holly's internet so they can stream that before the game starts She's gonna win the divorce So I'll just wrap it up by saying as always comments are always welcome in questions You know, we'll see what happens You can comment right on the youtube page where this video is or if you're watching at that anxiety guy.com You can comment there and then twitter at that anxiety guy and facebook also that anxiety guy However way you want to like hurl stuff at me I'll make sure holly gets a two and you know, we'll talk about them as soon as we can I guess And then next week we'll do chapter three. What is chapter three? I don't even know. Do you know what the next chapter is? It's what is a nervous breakdown. Oh, what is it? Yeah, that's good And that's very dated too the old kinds of the nervous breakdown, but it's a good one We'll go through that too. So all right, that's it So make sure you follow along with us on twitter and facebook and whatnot So you know when these are coming out and I guess we'll catch up with you guys next time. Yes Cheers to you. Come on wales