 Hi, I'm Jay Fiedel. This is Sharon Moriwaki next to me. We are hosts and co-hosts of Hawaii, the State of Clean Energy, a long-running, important program, our flagship program on energy. We do five a week of some kind of aspect of energy. But this is the best one on Wednesday. This is the one that Sharon organizes through the Hawaii Energy Policy Forum. But guess what? We have two great guests on by Skype. We have, of course, Mina Morita, a regular visitor at Think Tech. And she's our host on Kauai. And we also have Nadine Nakamura, also from Kauai, they are calling in from Kauai. We're going to talk to them about what happened in the 2017 legislature. And Nadine is representative, Nakamura. Yes, right. Excuse me. So, welcome to the show, Mina Morita, former chair of the PUC and former representative and chair of the Energy Committee of the State of Legislature for about 27 years. And also representative, Nadine Nakamura. Welcome to the show. Hi, Sharon. Thanks. Thanks for letting us broadcast from Kauai this week. It's so nice to be home. You guys look so comfortable. Like, relaxing. We are. We're actually in Nadine's kitchen. You didn't see. Representative Nakamura's kitchen. I like the plant. The plant's good. The green. The plant is thanks to her son. He looked at us and said, you need something in the background and you put the plant in. So, Mina, can you introduce and properly representative Nakamura to us, tell us, you know, a background and her involvement in energy? I'll be really happy to. So, Representative Nakamura, we have a program this week. It's primarily because of her planning background. Representative Nakamura was a planner, a planning consultant, before she entered politics. It was in 2010 that she won her county council seat and won that seat for two terms. And then she was asked by Kawaii Mayor Bernard Kawaii to become his managing director for the county. And there's been a lot of interaction on transportation issues. But right now, Representative Nakamura represents District 14, which is east and north Kawaii. He was elected in 2016. She sits on the housing, transportation and finance committees. And I had a couple of introductory questions for her to get a feel of what's happening right now. So, you just finished your first year as a state representative. So, yeah, you survived. What was the highlight of your first year? The highlight for me, two things. One was this meeting of the representatives from all over the state. It was an incredible experience. 50 other House members representing 1.4 million people around the city of Hawaii. And that was a great experience. But also passing my first bill relating to an invaded species on Kawaii, the Rose Ring Parakeet. And we were able to get the bill passed and get some attention to this major issue affecting a lot of farmers on the island, the visitor industry and property managers. Yeah. And I think in that one, you can see how the economic impact of those birds, because I guess it started out with a couple of the pairs in the 1960s and it's grown to hundreds. And then, attacking egg crops and affected tourists, they all roost in the coconut trees at the hotels and make a big mess. Yeah. So, you know, this is sort of a process question. So was there anything in the legislative process that you found yourself scratching your head and saying, why is it done this way or why this? A lot of times throughout the entire process, I was doing that, mainly because, you know, the state process is so different from the county process, which is year long. And if you don't finish one week, you go to the next week or you put it into committee and you resolve issues, you also vote right in front of the camera every Wednesday. In the state house, you know, it's such a compressed process and there's not a lot of time for that type of deliberation and really being able to work a bill and make it improve on it. You just don't have that luxury. Yeah. And I think that's some of the stuff that we want to touch on later on, one particular bill. So what do you think was the most important accomplishment for this session? Well, to me, the social justice legislation was a huge accomplishment and it got buried in all of the discussion about rail, but the passing the earned income, the state earned income tax credit after 20 years of trying, yeah, it was great to be able to vote for that bill that gives low income wage earners some assistance and relief. The Promise program that helps community college students pay for, make their tuition free is a huge program, happy to support that and then all of the affordable housing legislation and funding that will help to build more affordable rental housing in this state and address the homelessness issue. Okay, great. Thanks. So one of the reasons why we asked you as a guest today is because of your extensive planning background as I mentioned earlier and as you all know transportation, I mean the traffic, this traffic and affordable housing issues are typically top of mind issues for a lot of people throughout the state. So one of the bills that we were focusing on is House Bill 1580. Did I get their number right, children? I never have heard that before. 1580. So it's among other things, we're supposed to set a renewable fuels target for the transportation sector and being a member of the transportation committee from your perspective as a planner, can you share any thoughts on that bill that you had? Yeah, I was able to vote in support of that bill when it reached the finance committee. So I think what happened was it was approved in the energy and environmental protection committee. Right. It was a triple referral then it went to transportation then it was, it did not, it was referred out of transportation and then went to finance and I believe that it died in conference committee. Yes. I was not on that conference committee but I supported it for the goal, you know, just being able to set a goal and I think a lot of, there may have been some concerns, I was taking a look at some of the testimony saying that it was a very ambitious goal but that the short range goals of 5% reduction in fossil fuel use by 2025 I think is a good goal to try to achieve. But, you know, I know there's a lot of new investments to be made in our infrastructure, you know, one being transportation, what we're either talking about highways and roads or fuel delivery system. And so as a planner, can you give us an idea if there's any magic bullets out there in kind of marrying planning and policy development? And just come from a planner's perspective, it's really important to identify the problem. What is it that we are trying to solve and what's not working to get us to achieve whatever goal that we set. And so I think in this situation, you know, being really clear about, you know, having good data that tells us where are we at today and how do we get to the future. And in order to do that, what good planners do I think is to bring together all of the key stakeholders to collaborate about, you know, once the goal is set, is how are we going to achieve that goal. And I think in this situation where there's changing technologies, there's different, you can't work in a silo, you have to collaborate with others in order to make some of the system changes that aren't going to be needed. And so by bringing everyone together and coming up with clear strategies that to me makes it easier for policy makers to then and the executive side to then move on it. So, you know, the legislative session, so sure. Do you have any suggestions on how we can grow about food? And I think the work should be done in the interim. And I think now that the session is over, it's, you know, trying to find, I think, you know, 10, 15 years ago when people started convening groups and having workshops and groups coming together to talk about energy renewable energy and how are we going to do it and bringing people from the mainland experts sharing ideas. I think all of that is needed in this transportation area, especially with ground transportation. So, you know, one of the things just to to insert the Department of Transportation has a sustainable transportation group that includes energy advocates as well as the transportation groups and the private sector and the counties. And they've been meeting and they, it seems that the transportation and energy folks don't quite seem to have a common sort of way to go forward. And I just wondered in the session whether you saw any common threads or something that, you know, we could start building on as we go forward because we certainly know and all of us want to get to clean transportation. It's a matter of what is the right pathway or pathways. And, you know, when they come before you in the session, they may be giving you some pearls that maybe we can kind of assemble as we go forward so we don't lose the last three months of work that was put into that. You know, this HB1580 didn't make it to the transportation committee. So the first I heard of it was really on the as a member of the finance committee. So maybe that's one area that needs to be worked on. And maybe because there's a triple referral for the time consideration, that make it difficult to sometimes get through the process. So the other thing that I wanted to bring up was Representative Nakamura was sort of instrumental in the county efforts to really look at multimodal issues. So can you tell us how the Kauai County sort of formulated their discussion on moving toward multimodal solutions? Yeah, I think we had... Can you hold a minute? We just want to take a short break. We're about the middle way through our show. That's Representative Nadine Nakamura, Mina Marina, former chair of the PUC, Sharon Moriwaki, my co-host. I'm going to take a short break. We come back in the last half. I'd like to cover the question about how this session, the things you saw in the legislature, how they affect the initiative in general, how they affect the speed and the effectiveness of the clean energy initiative, and how they affect public opinion. So we can cover that too right after this break. We'll be right back. Kauai Lucas, host of Hawaii is my mainland every Friday at 3 p.m. on Think Tech Hawaii. We talk about things of interest to those of us who live here, and my past blogs can be found at kauailukas.com. We're back. We're live here in Hawaii, the state of clean energy with Representative Nadine Nakamura and Mina Marina in Kauai, joining us by Skype, and Sharon Moriwaki, my co-host here in Honolulu. Wow, what a crowd. Okay, so you had asked about life in the county of Kauai, and I'm sure you're interested in hearing Nadine's answer to that. Yeah, what I was asking Representative Nakamura was, you know, as a Managing Director under America Vallejo, she was pretty instrumental in getting the county to look at different kinds of partnerships in developing the county's multimodal policies. So Representative, can you tell us how you did it? Actually, while I was on the council, there was a very strong advocate for multimodal long transportation planning, and that was Joanne Nakamura, council member Joanne Nakamura. And she was able to secure funding, secure an administrative security consultant, and they created a... I think the first one in the state is a multimodal long transportation plan that we used as a model moving forward. And that involved looking at roads, bicycle paths, pedestrian paths, as well as the bus system to really look at it holistically together, because a lot of times it's done separately. And so that's something that the mayor has really promoted. We have a complete street policy, we have safe routes to school policy, and we have a transportation planner focused on implementing these policies. So that's how you translate the plans into action. So, Nadine, lessons learned from the county and how you did that, and what were the major pieces, the foundational pieces, can that be transferred to the state, and what kind of policy would need to be in place that we could build upon? I think, as you said earlier, the IG administration is working to coordinate better with the counties, and to, I think, you know, having the policies in place, the complete street policies, safe routes to school policies, having maybe we need a multimodal land transportation policy that brings it together. But I think the State Department of Transportation is, and under the leadership of Director Fujigami, there is movement to learn from what others are doing on the mainland, even learning from what's happening on Kauai, and training their staff to think about transportation differently. As they're saying now, it's not just about moving cars from one place to another, it's moving people to where they need to get to go, and it might not just be by vehicles. So that's the shift that needs to happen, and it needs to be ingrained in the bureaucracy. So how, you know, you had mentioned that there was a champion in the council in recognizing the need for good planning. Do you see the same kind of effort at the legislature recognizing the need for good planning? You know, it's my first year, and I'm still trying to figure that out. There was so much focus on rail this session that I did not get a sense of the other types of multimodal. I mean, rail is one big part of it, and it will make a huge difference in Honolulu. But, you know, we need to be looking and coordinating, and one of it too is implementation. Yeah. So do you think that we don't get involved in? Right. But do you think the department has enough resources to make these huge to implement policy? Yeah, I guess the question is, do you think, or in your first year, have you seen if our transportation policies and objectives are clear enough in moving forward to give good direction to department transportation? I really don't have a strong sense of being able, I don't feel like I can answer that question. I think I'm still learning, and I think I need to do more research in that area. I don't know if there's a disconnect yet. Do you have any questions for a representative? Oh, yeah. So, you know, we've had a problem in moving ahead. We were under the shadow of this BUC proceeding through 2015 and 2016 for 18 months, 19 months, and that cast a shadow during that whole period, and then after. And then we have right now, we have the whole affair in the legislature about confirming Tom Gorak, the PUC is in a state of turmoil, I would say. Did he appoint anybody instead? No, not yet. So, the PUC is in turmoil, okay? And the industry is in turmoil. The installers are, you know, are declining, and there's hardly any left already, and the incentives that existed before don't exist anymore, and the public is not enthusiastic about doing any more PV. Actually, the only place that's going well is in Kauai. But, you know, so the legislature, you know, by default, because the government is not involved in this stuff. I mean, he's made some negative pronouncements about Dexterra and about LNG, but he hasn't actually come up with a positive plan himself or through DBED. So, you know, it's just like this, none of the government is actually moving ahead right now. And then we have, then we have the 2017 legislature, which was, in many respects, a failure around, you know, all issues, but especially a failure around energy, because there were two obvious things that I think they should have done, could have done. And there were a lot of things they should have done that didn't come up. So, here we are. And my question to Representative Nakamura is, what should the public think? Should they be excited about energy right now? Should they be, should they feel that it's all moving along nicely? Should they be concerned? Should they be writing letters to their representatives and senators, saying, K. Pasa, what's going on? What do you guys plan to do next year, the election year? You know, at the end of the cycle, it all starts again. It's like the midst of Sisyphus, you know, like you're pushing the stone up the hill and it rolls right back down on you. So, where's the progress? How committed is the legislature and the leadership and the legislature to doing something? How do you feel? I wish I were, you know, in your place. I would, I would really, you know, know more about this. But I'm wondering how you feel about, you know, the leadership, the initiative going forward, and mostly how the public should respond or react to this. Or give us some hope. Give us some hope. For the next session. I think there's a few leaders in the House, and I think that I think the energy power will be needed. I'm hopeful. I think, I think it's important that everyone get involved in trying to promote multimodal land transportation solution. I think we, we, you know, on Kauai, there's been, it takes, it's the leadership, though, that makes it happen. And I think Mayor Carvalho has made it a priority to implement complete streets, to implement since well, to, and, but we need that at the state level. We need to, I think, you know, I'm going to push back a little bit on you, Jay, because I don't think, you know, everything is in disarray. And, and I think, you know, the policies are there. A lot of it is dependent on electric utilities. I mean, we've made really, really great strides in moving forward. And I think, you know, when you talk about rooftop solar, we've got to deal with cost and physics here. You know, we're, we're at the limits. You know, we push the system, we push the old system as far as it can go. And so, and, and using exponential growth in rooftop solar, you know, we can't live with exponential growth. It has to end at some time, you know, and the time came sooner. It had to happen. But again, we're only serving 25% of the Heco customers with rooftop solar. It's about designing a system for the other 75%. And, and, you know, how do we move forward there? I'm kind of disappointed the legislature that they didn't address the renewable energy income tax credits to make it more equitable. And there really is a question of whether it should be subsidized. I'm concerned about gens being used as a rebate, rather than a loan program. You know, again, that's another equity issue. So I'm glad, I'm glad a lot of the bills that were before the energy committee didn't pass. A lot of social equity issues tied around there. But I think overall in general, we've been making some pretty great strides still. You know, we're really capturing all the low hanging fruit. Okay, let me, let me, we're getting to the end of our time. And Nadine, I wonder if you could flesh out a little bit of what you were saying about people getting involved. Could you sort of direct your comments to them and tell them what specifically they should be doing in order to move the ball ahead? Well, and I think in general, in interacting with the legislature. Well, I, transportation is one. I mean, I feel the transportation, we haven't taken the low hanging fruit. We haven't done anything. Sorry. That's just me. But and it's really, really too bad that 1580 disappeared in conference. There was no good reason for that. It seemed to me that it was a good bill. And it's really sad that we don't even have a target, not even an aspirational goal right now. It's hard to, it's hard to build on, you know, that failure. So I guess, you know, what should people be thinking and doing? How should they get involved? What should the public and the electorate do in order to participate in this conversation and this building this initiative to a head of steam? I think similar to the renewable energy initiatives, it's having some entity to convene the different stakeholders. I don't know if you need a bill in order to convene people to have the conversation. And, you know, whether it's, you know, some people in the legislature convening it or on Hawaii, it was the quite economic development board that initiated many annual conferences and brought hundreds of people together every year. And they continue to do that around renewable energy. So why can't we do that with, you know, transportation in the transportation area? And I think, you know, again, we go back to the importance of the Hawaii energy policy form when it started up 20 years ago, 15 years. How many years, Sharon? You know, I think of the energy policy form in the context that Sharon Moriwaki and many meetings of the energy policy form over the past five years, if not longer, have been dedicated, you know, with, with, yeah, with a real heart, you know, with real large effort to try to get something going on transportation. But I would say right now that we have not been able to do that. There's been no action on transportation, not even an aspirational goal. So Sharon, we're out of time and I don't mean to rant on this. Sorry, you guys. But Sharon, can you summarize the discussion? Where are we? Where do we go from here? I think number one, there's hope. There's hope because people are coming together. There's hope because people are concerned that things aren't going. And maybe with that, people will come together and find some action that they can work on. And we hope so because we're hoping to focus on clean transportation in August at our clean energy day. Yeah. And Representative Nakamura, I hope you come in August. Yes. And we're with you and we'd like you to be with us. We'd like to have this conversation with you. We recognize, you know, we appreciate you're coming down and being with Meena Morita today and talking with us today. We want to do that again. And thank you, Meena, for setting it up. This is Hawaii, the state of clean energy with Representative Nadine Nakamura, with Meena Morita, with Sharon Moriwaki and me, the old guy. Aloha. We'll be right back. Back next week, we'll be right back. Yeah, we'll be back with Meena again next week. So stay tuned in.