 Okay, recording is on. Let's take a moment to pray and then we will get started. Can somebody pray please? Father God, we thank You for this time and thank You for this morning. And we pray and we submit, Pastor Ashish and all the students into Your hand when we are going to learn from Your Word, You reveal through Your Holy Spirit. You guide us, You lead us by Your Spirit. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen. Amen. Okay, good morning everyone. Thank you for being in the class today. We didn't have class last two weeks. So I hope you still remember what we've been studying in this course. Yeah, so a week before I was in Jamsatpur. It was nice because the past couple who went and started the work in Jamsatpur, of course the history, they actually attended a short term by the college that was being run in Tamil Nadu by one person who I knew in those years. This was back in the 1980s, 1990s. In 1990, I taught in that short term by the college and this pastor was in that class. So of course I didn't know because there are so many people in that thing. And I taught two subjects there. This was in 1990. And so they went back, they went to Jamsatpur, they started the work there. Then many branch churches started. So they had churches in other towns. Then they reached out to tribal areas and all that. So that pastor still remembers attending the class in 1990. So they reached out and they invited me. So this is an annual conference where they bring all the churches, all the people together. I think for me it was so touching to see the fruit. Because I knew that short term by the college that somebody else was running. Where these people had come and attended. And now to see the impact of what had happened here in this place in Jharkhand state, so many other lives from one couple who went and started a church. Now it's, I don't know, many hundreds of people including tribals. So for me that was very touching just to know the history and see what has happened. And so generations now the sun has taken over and the church is going on and all of that. So it's very touching to see what had happened. So I was there for three days with them. Basically the team was on abiding in Christ, abiding. So from John 15 talking about that. So I did seven sermons on that. Nasik was more, it was organized by about 20 pastors, local pastors, the gathering. They had all the church people, all the pastors, all them. We did Quota of Honor. We did that in Nasik for two days. I also went and saw ABC Nasik. Again it was very touching to see that because Rajesh, he came and studied here at ABC Bible College. Then he went and he started ABC Nasik. And to see how God has lifted him up and now the very thriving church doing very well, strong community. And also he's being recognized as a leader in Nasik. I mean, of course there are a lot of other pastors and leaders for him to be recognized and so on. It's very nice to see how that work is happening. So that was last two weeks. It's good. Let's move forward here in our course. We're pretty close to finishing our course. Let me see, share the entire screen. We were doing biblical understanding of suffering. Did you hear the prerecorded thing? Okay, if you have any questions you can ask. I'll just quickly review that this whole area of suffering is a very, it's a very, I should say the word touching or it's a very painful topic because suffering is real. People are going through these things. And we can't just give, I'll give chapter and verse and go be happy. We can't do that. People are going through difficult things in life. And so while we want to be having, we want to have a clear understanding in our minds why there is suffering. At the same time, when we speak to people, we have to speak to them with a lot of compassion, with a lot of empathy. We can't just say, yeah, I'll explain to you very clearly why you are suffering. We can't do that. It's not, you know, so it's a very difficult subject and topic as well. But what we have said so far is when we approach the subject of suffering, we must first of all understand the heart of God. And the way we can understand God's heart is how did he start everything? And how is he going to finish everything? How was it before sin came? How is it going to be when there is no sin and there is no devil? That will give us a correct picture of God's heart. Right? And once we understand God's heart, then we have to come from there. Right? We don't want to compromise who God is. Don't change who God is. Right? Come from that place of, okay, this is who God really is. And this is how what he has taught us or shared with us in the Bible. But what his original intent is, how is he going to keep things in the future? So what is he doing now when, yeah, suffering is real? We are going through it. What's he doing now? How should we respond to it? So we went through that. We hadn't recognized the suffering as a present reality. We understood that when God created the world, there was no suffering. In the New Heavens and New Earth, there will be no suffering. That's how he started. That's how he's going to take in the future. So that's the heart of God, a world, a place without these problems. Then we said, okay, what are the different reasons for suffering? We have started, we started looking at this. Number one was the suffering due to the bondage of corruption. That means all of creation was subject to corruption at the fall. Corruption means it's a deviation from God's original design. That means originally God designed everything perfect. But things started deviating, going away from that original design. That's corruption. It's being corrupted. It's not the original. It's not the way God wanted it. And there's a bondage of corruption. That means all of creation has been put into this bondage of corruption, into this place of being in subjection to corruption because of the fall. Everything. So you think about weather conditions, cyclone, earthquake, volcano, tsunami. Is God doing all that? No. Even the natural elements are in bondage to corruption. They've gone away from their original design. So you're having all these things happen. Now, in the case of God's judgment, that is an extreme place where if God is going to judge somebody, he may use these natural elements. But that's not his normal thing. Not every morning he gets up and says, okay, so these people tsunami, these people volcano, these people. That is not God's. But on the earth, things are happening. Why? Because these natural things have gone away from their original design. When you think about babies born with problems, how do we answer that? On the one hand, we say God created. God formed, but then the baby is born with problems. So how do we match that? In what way is God forming the baby in the womb? God put in place natural processes through which babies are being born. That means he put that in place. That's a great work of God. That he put the natural process through which human beings, animals, plants, everything, they create or they reproduce. The natural process is put in place. But we also understand the natural process is deviating from its original design. It's in bondage to corruption. So natural process is happening. That was created by God, designed by God. But that process is in bondage to corruption. It's going away from the original. So then we have all these problems happening. Can we blame God for it? No. God's original process was perfect. But because of sin, it's deviating from its original design. And then we have these problems. In addition to that, there is the devil working and causing problems. That is a second separate point. But in bondage to corruption, you understood what the Bible is saying. But the Bible also says they will come a day when even creation will be set free from this. That is where in the new heavens are new earth. There will be new heavens, new earth. There will be an earth where everything is perfect. No sin, no sorrow, no pain, nothing. That is Revelation chapter 21, 22. Everything will be perfect. You with me so far? Yeah. Number two. So this is on page 81. Second reason why we must, you know, suffering happens. There is suffering due to one's own action. I mean, see, if I am not careful, I will face some problems. I can't blame God for it. It's my action. If somebody is driving very recklessly, very rashly, some action happens. Oh, all things work together for good. Don't so love God. You should be driving carefully. You know, we will be quoting scripture and we say, now God can teach us from our mistakes. We will learn not to drive rashly, hopefully. But to turn our irresponsibility as a work of God, we have to say, I was irresponsible. I made the mistake. I can't blame God for this. I was not driving carefully. I made the mistake. I have to go and, you know, sort out whatever the consequence is, you know, and take care of like that. There's so many, so many things, right? So the Bible teaches us the Galatians chapter six verse seven and eight. It says, do not be deceived. God is not mocked. Whatever a man sows, that is what he will also reap. Whatever a man sows, that is what he's going to reap. So don't fool yourself. Don't do not be deceived. So don't fool yourself. What you sow, you'll reap. If you sow to the flesh, you'll off the flesh reap corruption. If you sow to the spirit of the spirit, you will reap life. So what you sow, you will reap. That is a law and that is a consequence for all people, believers and non-believers. So if a believer is a farmer, he goes and sows some seed, you know, example. He goes and, I know what seed, I don't know much about farming, but he goes and puts seed for some vegetable, tomato. That's simple. He puts tomato seed. He's going to get tomato. He can't say, I'm a believer. I put tomato seed, brinjals will come. You know, you are a believer, believer and non-believer. Whatever you sow, you will reap. The same law applies to everybody. Now, may a believer can believe God saying that you bless my sowing, but the law is what you sow, you will reap. It's true for everybody. So we must understand, you know, sometimes people are suffering of their own actions because of the actions. So if somebody is smoking cigarettes, somebody is drinking alcohol, they damage the body, then they can't say, God is teaching me a lesson. No, you should have learned the lesson long back, not to hurt your body like this, right? So we have to be careful. And, you know, even godly people made mistakes, Abraham, David, they face the consequences. So even godly people, just because they're godly doesn't mean, yeah, they escape. They're godly people, love God. They did wrong things. They face the consequences. But this is where mercy comes, the mercy of God. What does the mercy of God do? The mercy of God lessens the effect of what we are supposed to receive. In his mercy, he does not give us what we deserve. So instead of receiving full of the wrong I have sown, God, you know, in his mercy, he reduces the effect of that. It's okay, I'll be merciful to you. That's the mercy of God. So when we make mistakes, God, he gets us out of the problem. We turn to him, we repent, and in his mercy he forgives. He brings us out. He helps us, you know, but the consequences we face, but, you know, God is there to help us. The third thing, and we're going to spend a little time here. Any questions so far on the first two points? Let me see online. Yes, Nikhil, go ahead. So, Pasara, as you said, there will be new earth and new heaven. Yes. So that means God will destroy this earth? Yes, yes. But when we see in Old Testament, Noah's time, there God says, I won't destroy this earth. It's talking about only for water or... Yeah. Yeah, so he said, after Noah's flood, he said, I will not destroy the earth in this manner with the flood. So how is he going to do it? There can be a three with fire. No, seriously. He says, everything will be burnt with fervent heat. So Noah's little mild. Second Peter chapter 3, when God is getting ready to make new heavens the new earth, he's going to destroy everything with fire. Nothing will be left, literally. And new heavens, new heavens. Think about it, you know, new heavens means this whole universe. It's so big, but God is going to take it all off. New heavens and new earth. Everything will make new. So it's going to be big. Yeah. Pastor, the first point when I heard about babies, I heard people talking like, okay, something must have happened, but God is in control. He's a sovereign God. Or when people are sick, not due to drinking or any mistake from their part, always are like, okay, this has happened, but God is sovereign. Why can't he stop it? Or why can't he do something about it? Hearing these questions. That's a valid statement, what you have made. So how do we understand that? On the earth, there is corruption. So there is sickness. And even good people, like you're saying, they've not done anything bad. They're not smoking, not drinking nothing. They've lived a normal life. They will face sickness. Why? It's there on the earth. It's there. But that is where faith comes. God is sovereign. That means he is ruler over the sickness. Sovereign means he's ruler. He's king. He is ruler over the sickness. That means he has complete authority over this sickness. But God has decided, as we see in scripture, that he will intervene in our affairs in response to our faith. That is how he is put it plainly. He is sovereign. He has absolute authority over the sickness. Or the problem, whatever it may be. But he will intervene in response to faith. Now, there is the providence of God. Providence means God says, whether you have faith or not, I will do this for everybody. Example, he makes the sun to shine on the good and the evil. That is the providence of God. He makes rain to fall on the good and whether you have faith or not, whether you're good or bad, you will get sun, you will get rain, you'll have the air to breathe. That is God's providence. That means he's providing this for everyone, whether they have faith or not, good or bad, he's providing. So in the providence of God, there is the natural healing process for everybody. So he has designed our bodies in his providence that when we face sickness, our body automatically works to heal itself. That is God's providence. That means through the providence of God, healing is actually available to every person. But there will be some conditions where this natural healing is not enough. That is when either we go to the doctor or you have to have faith in God for him to exert his sovereignty and heal us from there. So that is where God has made the provision through the cross of Christ, saying, I will work in your life. I've made the provision already. Oh no, I want you to have faith. And then we have faith in his provision. We can experience his work. But that faith, again, is for every person. We all have to come the same way through faith. Believer, general, he or she is a non-believer. They don't know about Jesus or they won't put their trust in the Lord. And whenever we say, no, this is okay or they just be very angry, like how can, if God is sovereign and why me? I have done nothing wrong. The other person at least done something wrong. I am like a better person. That's their perspective than why me. Yeah. So that is where we have to have them understand that God is a good God. You're not suffering because God put it on you. But God is a good God and you can come out of this suffering through faith in God. God can help you out of this suffering. So God is not against you, but he's for you and he will bring you up. So even through the non-believer, we can encourage them to have faith in God, to believe God, to come out of that suffering. But that requires helping them understand that God is a good God. He's a healing God, delivering God, providing God. And then how to have faith through Jesus Christ. Usually anything happens. I mean, everybody blames on God. God did this. Anything happened is like God. Any bad thing is God. So somebody said, no, no, it's not God. They look at you. You have any problem? Yeah. Something like when we are believers also, so what we are discussing is God will intervene in our sickness or in our things in accordance to our faith. Yes. So, but we can see so many believers, they have been praying for many years for their sickness, but they are not yet delivered or what he did. So we have a complete faith on him. Like, I mean, according to the scriptures, we should have faith. In accordance to our faith only God will work. God is just over in God. He can do everything. But how come being as a believer is having faith? Yeah. See, the correct thing for us to do is to look at each situation individually. You know, why? And then we will find out, you know, what is it that is holding the believer or keeping the believer from receiving the healing? Yeah. In the particular case, for example, the believer may say, I believe in Jesus and I'm believing for healing, but they probably are hoping not having faith. Hoping means I hope one day I'll get healed. That is hope. That is something maybe God will heal me one day, but faith is different. Right. Faith is I know the work has been done. It is my right. And I believe by his stripes, I have been healed. I'm taking it by faith. So many believers are most likely in a place of hope, not a place of faith. So hope is you start with hope, but you have to come into a place of faith. Faith is the substance of things hoped for. You hope for it, but now you've come to a place of faith where faith says, I have it. Hope says I will have it sometime. Faith says I have it. It is the evidence of things not same. Faith is now hope is in the future. So that's what I'm just giving some examples of what could be problems. So that is that many believers are in a place of hope, not a place of faith. And so, and they confuse that they think hope is faith. Hope is not faith. Hope is future. I know one day I'll be well. Yes, of course, all of us would be well one day when we get glorified bodies. But faith is different, right? Faith is now. That's one problem. Another problem could be that we say we're believing God, but maybe we don't actually know the words, right? We are in a system of religious belief. So we know what to say. I'm believing God. But are you really established in the word? Because faith comes by hearing the word. It comes by just being part of our system where you know the right things to say. That could be. I'm not saying these are problems with every person. I'm just saying, you know, different people are in different positions, places, spiritually. Sometimes it could also be that unforgiveness hinders us because when Jesus taught us about receiving from God in Mark 11, 22, 23, 24, 25, he said, you must forgive. So us forgiving others positions us to receive the blessings of being forgiven. If I don't forgive, then I will not receive the blessings of being forgiven. I can be forgiven, but I won't have the blessings of being forgiven because I have not forgiven somebody else. And Jesus put it there in Mark 11. You know, have faith in God. Faith will move the mountain. Faith will receive answer from God, but you have to forgive. So sometimes people hold unforgiveness in their hearts and that could be a hindrance. They have faith, but unforgiveness is blocking. So like this, you know, different situations. We don't know all the details for each person. So if you spend time with the individual, we'll be able to help them personally and help them. Please, suffering due to bondage of corruption. You spoke about this natural phenomenon. It's actually because of this, they lost their actual design. Design, yes. So how it actually happened? I mean, how to actually explain? Can you explain how it actually lost? How did it actually happen? Honestly, I don't know. I mean, the Bible doesn't tell us how it actually happened other than Romans 8 says that all of creation was subject to corruption. And God did it not willingly. I mean, this was not the will of God, but he did it in hope. That means with the expectation that one day he will redeem it back to himself. So temporarily he let creation go and become subject to corruption. He allowed that to happen, not because it was his will, but because he knew that he will redeem it all back to himself. How did technically, how did it happen? We don't know. We can imagine, but that's just imagination. For example, I've heard some preachers or read, they say, when in these cancer cells, so what are cancer cells? These are cells that have gone, again, they've gone away from their own, the correct way cells should function. Now, they've just, you know, multiplying randomly, destroying the body, so on. So I've heard some, sometimes there's a spirit of cancer. And the spirit of cancer is what is driving these cells to behave that way. That's what a preacher said, there's no chapter in verse for it. Other than we know that there are spirits that cause sickness, that affect parts of the body, you know, hearing, hearing or so on. So we know that spirits cause sickness. We know spirits, they're spirits of infirmity. But is it accurate to say that the spirit has gone into the cell and it's causing the cell to behave like this? There is no way to prove it, yes, or disprove it. So I think it is left to somebody's imagination. We don't have chapter in verse to explain how it happened. The only thing that scripture tells us is that creation has been subject to corruption. So it's gone away from its desire. Talking about like the other point also you mentioned, like it's not because of any individual. If some earthquake happened in this bandit, that doesn't mean the people who are living in bandit did something wrong and against God. So when we are taking this point subjected to corruption, nature. So that literally, not like literally, somehow it will mean like how it actually got subjected to corruption is because of something which is in nature. Because of sin? Because of sin. So nature itself can't do anything right. The people who can do sin and maybe we can take in that way like one of the pastors, I heard like the people who are in bandit, if earthquake came in, it was subjected to corruption means the people who are in that bandit or in the nature did some sin. Because of that it was subjected to some consequence or something like that. I mean I'm not taking it a literal meaning and all but somehow it will mean like that when they write. So we have to go back to Adam's sin. That's when everything starts right. I mean Adam sinned. So all of the earth was interested to Adam. Adam was submitted to God. Adam sinned that means all of the earth went into the hands of Satan. From that moment something happened to everything in creation including Adam's body. It started decaying. So God never intended Adam's body to die but from the time he sinned his body started decaying. And you find that good people and bad people suffer the effects of bondage of corruption. Good people also. When an earthquake happens in a certain place there may be churches there. There may be believing communities there. They're all affected. Why? When a famine happens, for example, there was a famine in the Bible. The church was in Jerusalem but they went through famine. Why did the church in Jerusalem go through famine when they were actually in the middle of revival? So people were, we can't say they were like sinners. The church was there in Jerusalem but in Judea but they were going through a famine. So like that the bondage of corruption affects all of humanity in whatever form whether it's in sickness, natural calamities, other things. But this is where God steps in to reverse these effects. Like a man is born blind. Jesus heals him. What's he doing? He's reversing the effect of that bondage of corruption. How it has affected this man's life. Then you and I are praying for a sick person. We are reversing the effect of sickness and disease. The effect of the bondage of corruption or it may be even demonic. We are expelling that evil spirit. Which one? The natural phenomena. It is a natural phenomena but not designed by God. It's because of the people who did sin. That's why they faced that whole city. But that was God's judgment. So now if we take this one, there is a question that arises. What is the meaning of taking this bondage of corruption? We can say it's a natural phenomenon because of the maybe some changes in earth or something. It's because of, I mean there is a question that arises. So the problem with saying that is then we are saying God created a faulty. There's a fault with God's creation. If we are trying to leave out bondage of corruption and just saying it's natural, then we are saying God did not create things properly. Which is not true. When God created, He created everything perfect. So all the natural systems were perfect. All the natural processes that God created were perfect. They wouldn't cause any harm or inflict any evil. But then why are these natural processes in a place where suffering happens? Then we say okay. It's because of the bondage of corruption. All right. There's a comment on the chat by Prabhu Manikam. When someone receives or achieves something good, we say it is by God. But something bad happens. We say it's my mistake and blame ourselves. As believers, we see it and understand it in a spiritual manner. But how to answer unbelievers when they question us? So when something good happens, of course, we have a part to play in it. It's not like we never did anything and we have a part to play in it. But it is God's blessing. Because the blessing of God, Proverbs 22, the blessing of God, it makes one rich. It brings the good things of God in our lives. So God is a good God. He's putting these good things in our lives. So we have a part to play and God has blessed us. When bad things happen, we know that God is not the author of evil. We can't say God is doing that bad thing. So we have to look for why did the bad thing happen. Maybe we are responsible. Maybe the devil is responsible. Maybe other people are responsible. So we have to understand that. Now, to explain this to an unbeliever, to explain this to a non-Christian, I think we just have to focus or emphasize the nature of God, that the Bible says God is a good God and God is not a bad God. Now, example, in a Hindu perspective, God can do good and evil. God is light and darkness, so to speak, because they have so many gods. And in that way, for them, God is a source of good and evil. He does both good and evil. But in the Christian perspective, God is light. There is no darkness in him. God is life. There is no death in him. There is God's truth. There is no error in him. So there are things God cannot do. God cannot lie. God cannot sin. God cannot hate. So that's the difference, a big difference between the God from a Hindu perspective and a God from a biblical perspective. So we have to say, when we say God blessed us, it's because God is completely good. He is light. He is truth. He is righteousness. There is no unrighteousness. There is no darkness in him. So in our minds, that's very clear. But that may not be so in the mind of a person from a different faith. And so we need to draw that distinction. I think if we have them understand the absoluteness of God in terms of being light, in terms of being good, in terms of being truth, then they're able to see that bad things, darkness, evil, God is not the source of it. Otherwise by default, and they're thinking their gods are the source of both good and evil. I hope that helps. Okay, any other questions? All right, let's take this forward. Suffering number three, suffering due to satanic oppression. Now it's very in Job. It's very clear. Job was the righteous man. He was a God-fearing man. He worshipped God. And then it's clear that Satan went forth from the presence of the law and he started causing all these problems. So it's very clear that it was the devil who was causing all these bad things, all kinds of calamities, destroying Job's houses, Job's family, Job's children, finally Job's own health. So Satan was doing it. But Job did not know. Job didn't know that. He didn't know what's happening in the spiritual worlds. He's thinking, I'm a God-fearing man. House fell down. People came and took away this, my children are not there, all those things. What is happening? I'm a Godly man. I'm a God-fearing man. I'm following God. Why are all these bad things happening? And Job's response to things, very interesting. Job says, the Lord gave, the Lord took away. Blessed be the name of the Lord. But did Job say the right thing? That's the question. He said a good thing, meaning God gave, God took away. That's what he said. But is it the right thing? Who was taking away? Not God, the devil. Job, the Lord gave, the Lord took it away. Blessed be the name of the Lord. No, no, no. God is not taking from you. The devil is taking from you. God gave to you. The devil is taking away from you. So that statement of Job is actually wrong. But we happily quoted. The Lord gave, the Lord took it away. Blessed be the name of the Lord. No, God didn't take away, right? It's the devil was taking away. So Job's statement is actually wrong. But he spoke out of ignorance. Meaning he didn't have the revelation. He didn't have the understanding that you and I have of the spiritual realm of what was actually happening. So God didn't say, hey, God didn't immediately reprimand Job. Then Job was speaking out of ignorance. His statement was wrong. But life went on. The devil continued doing this. But another interesting thing that we see in Job is Job also said, I think it's Job 3 in verse 26, the thing that I greatly feared has come upon me. Job 3 verse 26. So why did these things happen to Job? So Job was a godly man. True. He loved God. True. But he also had fear. How do we know it? He said it. Job 3 verse 26. The thing that I great... Sorry, Job 3 verse 25. For the thing I greatly feared has come upon me. And what I dreaded has happened to me. Fear and faith attract things into our life. Faith gives God an opportunity to work. Fear gives the devil an opportunity to work. So Job was a godly man. He feared God. But he also had other fears. He feared that all these bad things will happen. He dreaded. So I don't know in what way this must have affected his life. Like man, I hope nothing happens. I hope nothing happens. And it could be that the fear also drove him to pray morning and evening every time for his children and his business and family and everything. But he's making a confession. The thing that I greatly feared has come upon me. So in Job 121, he said, you know, Nekar, I came from my mother's womb. Nekar, I shall return there. That is correct, Job. The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away. That is not correct, Job. The Lord has not taken away from you. But it's okay. We know you don't have the revelation. You didn't have the buying book. You don't know what's actually happening in the spiritual realm. Fine. That's how you're thinking right now. But the nice thing is he said, I'm going to be the name of the Lord, which means that it's hard towards God is God. I'm still blessing you. That's a good thing that no matter what I'm going through, God, you are worthy to be blessed. You're worthy to be praised. That's a very noble thing. But the thing that kind of helps us understand why this must have happened in Job's life is Job 3.25. The thing that I fear greatly, I greatly fear this. It has come upon me. So this is why we must not have any fear. We must have faith in God. God will protect me. God will provide for me. God will keep me. That is faith. But when we are not in a place of faith and a place of fear, then fear opens the door of all these things. Fear opens the door. So think about this. Job was a very devout man, but he didn't have faith. He was a devout man with a lot of fear, fear of all the bad things happening in his life. And when it actually happened, I knew this was going to happen. Job, that is not the faith. That is not how you should have been. You should have faith that the God I serve will protect me. The God I believe in, the God who has blessed me, will also protect me and keep me. That is the faith you should have. Let us pause here. We go for the tea break and we come back after that and take some questions as well. We'll be back in 10 minutes.