 Pour fêter la Journée internationale pour l'accès universelle d'information, faites partie du NESCO pour améliorer la situation. Grâce à ce jour-là, nous allons mettre en relief les informations et la mise en œuvre pour construire des institutions inclusives et responsables. En tant que droit fondamental humain, l'axieuse information est impilée pour la connaissance et cela améliore la transparence, la gouvernance, la protège, notre santé, réduit les inégalités et contribue au développement durable. Le 28 et le 29 septembre, venaient participer à nos séries de webinaires et les événements organisés par l'UNESCO et les partenaires partout dans le monde afin de protéger et faire valoir nos droits de l'information. N'hésitez surtout pas à se rendre sur le site web pour davantage d'informations. Bonjour tout le monde, c'est un immense plaisir pour moi de vous voir tous, nous avons vraiment une science très intéressante qui est prévue, c'est en se penchant sur comment les REL pourraient renforcer l'accès à l'information, comme vous le savez, aujourd'hui c'est le jour international pour l'accès à l'université de l'information et quelque chose à laquelle on ne pense pas, c'est les droits d'auteurs, le rôle des ressources éducatives libres qui sont disponibles sous licence libre, c'est-à-dire qu'on peut partager, on peut réutiliser et on peut également adapter les ressources éducatives. Dans le domaine public, nous avons vraiment une présentation très intéressante, voici le format. Il y aura trois questions qui seront posées sur comment les recommandations de l'UNESCO sur les ressources éducatives libres facilitent l'accès à la coopération internationale pour l'accès universel. Quels sont les exemples de bonne pratique ? Nous avons prévu une science interactive, nous avons trois spécialistes avec nous et nous avons Dr. Dirk van Damme qui est en fait le propriétaire de DVD U-Consult, c'est un chercheur pour le centre de curriculum et c'est en fait l'ancien direct, le directeur retraité de série de l'OCDE. Nous avons Caroline Bogatich qui est en Botéra, qui est en fait le président de Commence et qui est aussi le directeur exécutif de la société Colombienne de droite d'auteur. Nous avons également Maya Bogatich qui est en fait fondatrice et chef de l'institut de propriété intellectuelle de l'Astrovénie, donc je vais donner en fait, je vais donner la parole à ma collègue Aïsatou qui va donner une petite introduction aux ressources éducatives libres. Aïsatou, vous avez la parole. Merci. Je vais donc faire une présentation de la recommandation de l'UNESCO sur les RL, essayant de mettre l'accent sur les aspects juridiques liés aux ressources éducatives libres. Mais pour commencer, on essaie donc à travers ces présentations d'explorer le cas juridique lié aux ressources éducatives libres, notamment les droits d'auteurs et l'invitation qui est faite aux états membres et aux institutions à travers la recommandation à mettre en place des cas juridiques ou politiques favorables au développement des RL de qualité conformément aux obligations nationales et internationales en la matière. On va d'abord se poser la question de savoir qu'est-ce qu'une recommandation. Alors la recommandation de l'UNESCO sur les RL, la recommandation au sens de l'UNESCO est entendue comme un des principaux instruments normatifs de l'UNESCO, au même titre que les conventions et les décisions. La recommandation va être l'instrument normatif par lequel l'organisation va édicter des principes directeurs et des normes aux états membres sur les mesures qui pourraient être prises dans un domaine donné et à charge pour les états membres de faire régulièrement, enfin de fournir régulièrement des rapports sur l'état de la mise en oeuvre de ces mesures. Il faut savoir aussi que la recommandation va présenter la souplesse nécessaire pour être rapidement adaptée à l'évolution technologique constante dans un domaine donné. Il n'y a pas des centaines et des centaines de recommandations de la part de l'UNESCO. Juste pour vous donner des chiffres de 1956 à nos jours, l'UNESCO n'a adopté que 35 recommandations et des années 2000 à maintenant, le nombre de recommandations adoptées n'est qu'au nombre de 8. Alors pour en venir à l'objet de la recommandation de l'UNESCO, les ressources éducatives libres, elles sont définies par la recommandation comme des matériels d'apprentissage d'enseignement et de recherche, surtout formant et support, relevant du domaine public ou protégé par le droit d'auteur et publié sous une licence ouverte qui autorise donc leur consultation, leur réutilisation, leurs utilisations à d'autres fins, leur adaptation et leur distribution gratuite par d'autres. La recommandation également définit ce que c'est les licences ouvertes. C'est donc des licences qui respectent les droits de la propriété intellectuelle de leur auteur et qui apportent au public des autorisations de consultés, de réutiliser et d'utiliser à d'autres fins d'adapter et de redistribuer des matériels éducatifs. La recommandation identifie une panoplie de partie prenante mais on va aller directement sur la prochaine slide. La recommandation identifie un certain nombre d'objectifs et de domaines d'action. Les domaines d'action sont au nombre de cinq. Il y a le renforcement des capacités en matière de rèlles. Il y a le développement de politiques de soutien d'errelles. Il y a tout ce qui a lien au développement de rèlles accessibles inclusif de qualité. Il y a aussi ce qui est lié à la durabilité des ressources éducatives libres et enfin il y a le renforcement de la coopération internationale. Pour venir à la question qui nous intéresse aujourd'hui, précisément sur la question de savoir comment les ressources éducatives libres participent au renforcement de l'accès à l'information et aussi comment mettre ça en lien avec le thème de la célébration de la journée internationale de l'accès universelle à l'information et le thème de cette année qui est de construire en mieux avec le droit d'accès à l'information. On peut trouver des éléments de réponse. D'abord, on verra qu'à travers les domaines d'action de la recommandation, il y a un certain nombre de mesures sur lesquelles les états membres peuvent s'inspirer pour la mise en oeuvre. Dans certaines vies à estorer des cadres juridiques, politiques et réglementaires favorables ou propices au développement de rêves. Donc si on s'intéresse donc à cette slide pour le premier domaine d'action, la recommandation invite les états membres à renforcer les capacités pour utiliser et appliquer des licences ouvertes conformément aux législations nationales et aux obligations internationales relatives au droit d'auteur, mais aussi à sensibiliser sur les exceptions et les limitations à l'utilisation d'oeuvres protégées par les droits d'auteurs à défaits pédagogique ou de recherche. Concernant le deuxième domaine d'action, la recommandation demande de développer et d'adopter des normes qui mettent l'accent sur l'examen des ressources éducatives, qu'elles soient en licence ouverte ou non. Également sur le troisième domaine d'action, elle demande l'adoption de cadre réglementaire en faveur de l'élaboration de produits d'urale et de services connexes qui soient conformes aux normes nationales et internationales ainsi qu'aux intérêts et aux valeurs des partis prenantes. En ce qui concerne les politiques, la recommandation demande la conception et la mise en oeuvre de cadre réglementaire qui encourage la mise à disposition sous licences ouvertes ou dans le domaine public des ressources éducatives libres élaborées grâce à des fonds publics, mais aussi d'encourager les institutions à élaborer ou actualiser des cadres juridiques ou politiques permettant le développement d'urale de qualité par des éducateurs et des apprenants dans le respect des législations nationales et des obligations relatives aux droits d'auteurs. Mais le domaine d'action 5 va plus loin vu que la recommandation à travers ce domaine d'action demande même la possibilité de mettre en place un cadre international concernant les exceptions et les limitations aux droits d'auteurs à des fins pédagogiques et de recherche. Deuxièmement, les REL ont permis au système éducatif, c'est le deuxième élément de réponse sur la question de savoir comment les REL peuvent renforcer l'accès à l'information. Donc on n'est pas sans savoir que les REL ont permis au système éducatif d'être résilient face à la crise de la COVID-19. Donc les REL ont permis de soutenir l'apprentissage et le partage de connaissance pendant la pandémie qui a perturbé l'apprentissage et qui a à son pic atteint 1,7 milliard d'apprenants dans 191 pays. C'est dans cette perspective qu'il y a une action commune qui a émergé et qui vise à gérer les défis de la crise pandémique et de celle à venir pour les apprenants et ainsi jeter les bases d'une intégration systématique des meilleures pratiques afin d'accroître le partage des connaissances pour l'avenir de l'apprentissage pour ce COVID. En définitive, on peut retenir que les REL contribuent à la promotion des lois sur l'accès à l'information car la recommandation appelle à tirer profit des licences ouvertes, à renforcer les capacités dans l'utilisation des licences ouvertes à l'application sur le droit d'auteur conformément aux lois et réglementation nationale, mais aussi à l'utilisation de données numériques et ouvertes dans les REL, tout en plaidant pour un assouplissement des cas juridiques liés aux droits d'auteur. Et par ailleurs, les REL ont permis et continuent de rendre possible l'éducation en période de crise grâce à un lancement en ligne et à distance. C'est donc un grand avancement dans l'accès à l'information et au savoir, et ça contribue à la création de sociétés de savoir inclusives et participatives. L'idée donc, c'est que dans les prochaines présentations, on essaie d'approfondir un peu plus ces questions. J'arrive donc au terme de ma présentation, with that I'm going to hand over to Zena, who will moderate the session. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. With that, I think we're ready to start. I have introduced our speakers already, Dr. Dirk Van Dam, Ms. Caroline Botero, and Dr. Maya Bogatich-Chantich. The first question I will address towards Dirk and Carolina Dirk. How does the UNESCO OER recommendation enhance international cooperation for universal access to information? Dirk, the floor is yours. Thank you, Zena. I think, first of all, it's very important to say that the UNESCO Declaration of Recommendation is a very important and powerful tool for countries and for the international community. It is highly political relevant, it is of high symbolic value. So it's very important that the recommendation exists. But I must admit that maybe I don't have a complete view of all the countries in the world, but that the real impact on policies is still yet to be improved. We don't see a lot of countries really referring to the recommendation when making OER policies. OER has received an incredibly important push during the COVID-19 pandemic, that's for sure. Countries and systems and teachers, schools, had to, just from one day to another, in March 2020, to switch to digital resources to support learning from distance education when schools were closed. And some of them have well used OER, but many teachers did not use OER because they didn't have the regulatory framework in place on a system level, on a national level, for them to use OER. So that was a bit disappointing when I see it in my own country and the Flemish community of Belgium. Many teachers just started to develop their own resources and to put things on the web in a very uncoordinated, almost chaotic way. And only a few of them really relied on digital resources which have been proven of high quality and with the necessary licenses, so the real open educational resources. I firmly believe and I hope that the pandemic and the experiences that many systems have gone through will now provide an opportunity for countries to think seriously about a systemic approach to openness in education and to a real development of OER, databases, repositories in many languages, in many cultural arenas. I think this is hugely important. We still have to recognize that there is a lot of resistance and a lot of counterproductive forces. So the educational publishers, they still seem to think that open educational resources are direct threats to their business model. I see it also in my country and in the Netherlands and in some other European countries, where the educational resources are increasingly monopolized by the publishing firms and that initiatives, often grassroots initiatives led by teachers themselves, which try to develop OER and try to make everything accessible and available to as many schools as possible, that these initiatives have a very hard time to survive and to have a real impact. So my overall assessment is very positive on the recommendation. I think it's hugely important. I would not wish it to go away or whatever, but there is still a lot of work to be done. And I think we have to think of strategies to convince education policymakers, ministers who are often not really aware that this recommendation exists. We have to convince them of the importance and of the opportunities after the COVID-19 pandemic to improve the situation. So far my first intervention, which is mixed in tone, but I think from my perspective, this is what is happening today. Thank you, Derek. Thank you for a very pragmatic response. And I think Dirk has been in this field for a very long time also and I think he's seen the evolution and it's a great pleasure to have this feedback after all this time of the evolutions. Carolina, could I ask for your feedback? How would you do the question? First of all, thank you for this invitation to be part of the meeting today. I can only agree with my previous speaker on the importance of the declaration and would like to provide some proof, let's say, from another side of the world on how it is important to really implement the declaration. During the COVID-19, we all know how much, how much, how was the impact to education. In Latin America, distance learning was deployed by the governments, but distance learning is only possible with the internet connection and devices. I have to say that according to some statistics 46% of the children between age 5 and 12 live in households without internet connection. Only 10 to 20% of those who are from the lowest income families do not have any kind of devices compared to 70 to 80% of children from more wealthy families that will have a laptop at home. This means that the situation was very hard to deploy distance learning. 23 out of 29 countries in Latin America deployed other strategies, such as TV or broadcast, but and even printed guides that were distributed all along the countries. Only eight countries were able to distribute devices for the children about the connectivity. The differences in Latin America between urban and rural are very significant. Again, children between 5 and 12 are among those that has less connectivity. And I have to add that mobile broadband penetration is five times higher than broadband, fixed broadband. But 67% of the countries does not have adequate mobile download speed. That is to say, even if they are connected, distance learning is not possible due to connectivity. So low connections speeds are reinforcing exclusion, preventing teleworking and distance learning. Often families will have to decide whether to do telework or education. This is why the UNESCO declaration and especially the copyright provisions under the UNESCO declaration are so important because they allow the educational resources to be able to be localized. They can be created, but also access, reuse, repurpose, adapted, redistributed, created, and therefore localized to better serve the needs of education. Emergency, such as the COVID-19, has shown us that the response for government requires speed. And this can only be provided today because of OER, just because, as the previous speaker said, if there are not enough local provisions, legislation provisions, this will be the only way. The digital divide gap is the worst, probably, situation that a country has to face, but it puts in the worst place the rural children. For them, there is a need to firstly do something and this need a local solution. During COVID, many countries, for instance Colombia, produced for the first time in their lives, probably, or at least in the last century, produced a printed guide to distribute where there was no connection, no bad connection, but it was never deployed thinking on openness. So we lost an opportunity to do this process of thinking. Secondly, in those places where there is bad connection or no connectivity at all, there are crafted solutions that can be deployed, such as local networks or community networks. But what we know is that devices that will be used are mobile. So every kind of educational resources that are deployed, that are basically, for instance, learning, are not thinking about these different formats, that needs to be repurposed, relocalized. This is why OERs are so important. I would like to finish just saying that for me, the emergency was a great opportunity for OER, but I still think that at least in Latin America, we are pending the discussion about how to better promote the objectives and areas of action of the UNESCO declaration to understand how OER can really impact on issues of education and emergencies. I will leave it this way for now and wait for the next question. Thank you. Thank you very much, Kali. I just, I want to summarize the two interventions because I think you've done, you've spoken on two sides of the same coin to some degree. Dirk, you've talked about the need for capacity building and sustainability and for ministers to understand what the recommendation is in order to be able to implement it in the countries in a more systematic manner. And I think that's really important because these are points which have come up, they're action points in the recommendation itself. But the role of ministers to understand how to actually have a systematic means of implementing is a very strategic step forward. Caroline, I think what's really interesting is that you've also spoken about capacity building, sustainability, and also connectivity per se, especially in Latin America. And you spoke about the need for adaptation and adoption of and contextualization. And I think the point that you raised is not one that we often hear in the discussions about the fact that when you're contextualizing, you also have to think from a technical point of view, and it's true that mobile devices are much more widespread than others, and there has to be a way to ensure that they are able to be repurposed. And I think it comes back to the same point that there needs to be greater, it was a great opportunity, it was a tragic event, the pandemic, on different fronts, in a sanitary front, on a human front. But at the same time with what happened with online learning, it made everyone realize that there is such a thing called online learning, and it's necessary. And overnight, everyone had to just figure out what to do. But there needs to be more capacity building. It was very clear that there needs to be more understanding on how to actually use open educational resources and what is the added value of it. And as you're an example of teachers who had the opportunity to actually develop materials, the licensing capacity building is very important also. So there's a need for further understanding of the concept and a further top down and bottom up approach. Thank you very much for these really enlightening points. I'd like to go to the second question, which is what can be done to support the development and enhancement of legal and regulatory frameworks on copyright and policies for OER development. So we're talking about frameworks which are both national and institutional. And with that, I give the floor to Maya. Maya, would you like to take the respond first? Sure. Thank you very much, Zeynep. First of all, thank you for inviting me to this interesting panel. I see many familiar places that are currently sitting far away, and we are just communicating and talking about such important topics online. But first of all, OER recommendation is essential to put some pressure on politicians who are thinking about this topic is a great excuse. I will use this word to do something, to start to do actions. Slovenia did some important steps on the topic of open educational resources, but of course more can be done. I've been always. And the end result is good quality open education or good quality education. So open educational resources can contribute to that tremendously, but also like very good and balanced copyright system as well. So I've been involved in open content licenses as a copyright expert for more than two decades now. And we've been repeating some important issues that need to be done for a couple of years. And in a way, pandemic did like quick push that something should start to move faster or offer some proofs that what we were saying for more and more years, it's really important to do. So that's why I would like to represent to this distinguished audience a study that we did earlier this year. A study is remote education during the pandemic teacher's perspective. I kindly suggest to colleagues from UNESCO to put the link and the name of the study in the chat that every participant will be able to click on that study and see the data because the data is really important. But I will talk about this data. So the study was conducted by Centrum Tiflora from Poland and Comunia. I'm a member of Comunia as a part of copyright for education project. The authors, I need to do that. I'm a copyright expert of the study Armagdalena Birnat Agnieszka-Urbanska, Teresa Nobrea Aleksandarowski and myself. The important thing about the study is that the report and recommendations are based on a European questionary based study. We carried on survey in seven member states. More than 100, 600 teachers were included. And the study methodology and everything is OER, is openly licensed. So everyone who wants to do similar studies somewhere else and collect data somewhere else or upgrade the study, do derivative of this study, is more than welcome to do that. And so what were the conclusions and recommendations? I will quickly go through all. And while I'll do that, I will also answer the questions. So free recommendations, conclusions and recommendations who deal more on the top, who deal more or important regarding the copyright balance or how should copyright change? So we discovered or the data shows that teachers use content that primarily focus functions outside of the educational market. What does this mean? They use materials that are not primarily targeted for educational markets. So not materials that are primarily prepared by educational publishers. So what I have on my mind, when the online education was moved online, teachers started to use materials that are out there and repurpose those materials to do illustrative example in class. And of course, they prefer freely available materials online without payment. And more than half of the materials that they used or more than half of the teachers that they used, they used open educational resources. So material licensed openly, that's the data that shows, that demonstrates that. It's very important. So the teachers repurpose a wide range of copyrighted works for remote education. And so it is important to ensure that the copyright systems are designed in a way that they would be able to do that without any additional payment or any additional requirements. This of course is important for every region on the world who is doing copyright reform. We are talking about broad, clear, copyright exceptions for education without renumeration. That's very relevant in Europe right now. But of course, we is always very relevant globally as well so that the copyright system supports public education. Our finding was also that the teachers informal collaboration played a significant role during the pandemic and constituted one of the key pillars of online teaching. Online teaching in Europe without that would not be possible. And teachers exchange materials and also knowledge. So the first contact for was their peer network and they of course use materials that they prepare themselves or other teachers prepare. And those material is more or less open educational resource. So now I'm answering the questions. It's important to support these informal collaborations on many levels. So by building suitable tools that enable cooperation by reducing legal uncertainty which can prevent teachers from creating and modifying materials by reducing barriers in access to online resources and of course by strategic support of the development of cooperation and exchange and exchange competence among teachers. I think something similar that already Dr. Dirk was talking about. The next finding was also that teachers mostly depend on tools delivered by the biggest tech companies. So why is this important to highlight? Because it's important to provide the behavior of these biggest tech companies will not disable collaboration communication in the future. So it can be antitrust issue and should be carefully monitored, monitored in the future. This is also extremely relevant from the perspective of collection of data. Massive quantity of data was collected in this pandemic year. And for finale, the remote education was to a great extent supported by open educational resources. And I'm talking about seven European countries. So these are countries that are well developed and let's say that the access to broadband was less or to technology was less of a problem than access and reuse of resources. And in this environment open educational resources were essential part of the content that was used in education. And this like this is proof that this is extremely important. So and this was possible because the policies from the past enabled to create open educational resources. So it's of course important and crucial for the future to bring these policies further and deeper to support the development of high quality open resources and practices. And so this is for now I can discuss in my next intervention what can be done in Europe to support this development. So thank you for now. Thank you very much. I give the floor to Karen. Thank you very much. So I will first totally agree on what was said by Maya. I would say that big cities and probably the wealthiest part of Latin America will have basically the same scenario that she was describing. However, I will focus again on the effects of the pandemic. Since it affected and had a very big impact, bad impact in my region in Latin America. Just few months after the pandemic started, it was unicef, the one that highlighted that more than seven months into the pandemic. So that was last year. COVID-19 was putting on hold the education of over 137 million children in Latin America in the Caribbean. Children in the region, they said, have already lost an average four times more days of schooling compared to the rest of the world. While schools were readily reopening several parts of the world, the vast majority of classrooms in Latin America were still closed across the region. Over one-third of all countries in Latin America in the Caribbean had yet to set a date for school reopening. That was at the beginning of this year. So I totally agree on the need for policy pressure and all the landscape that Maya described, but we continue to insist on the issue of the digital divide. That is not just connectivity. It also has to do with the capacity to use an appropriate technology that are key elements. So again, the landscape, once you have connectivity, you will start to look about on use and appropriation, and the issues of teachers and so on are really important. However, the main problem I believe or the main issue I believe, according to legal and regulatory landscape of Latin America that has to be addressed, is a very close regulatory framework. In a study done by Datisov from Uruguay, about eight countries in Latin America, they found that six countries in Latin America had no exception that could be used for the remote education or distance education. That means that in these countries, unless you had OER, there was nothing to do. And again, if OERs were not deployed because the connectivity was not good, just think that only eight countries out of the 27 that were looked by Elalc in the previous statistics I told you, had any kind of open educational resource repository done by public policies. That is to say there was really very little OER. So my first point would be that there is a need to rethink the regulatory framework to make it more open, because openness is not just about OERs, but also regulatory frameworks that are open. Another study done by the PIGIP from the American University on the right to research in international copyright law found that fewer than 25% of the world countries had a good exceptional limitation for the right to research. That is to say that permits reproduction and sharing of material for all research purposes. And any of those countries is in Latin America. Latin America then are in a very close environment on the issues of research that we have to do with education in the universities. For instance, in one in the research, they mentioned how one of the students in Sao Pablo said that the copyright protections have prevented him from using data mining methods for biomedical research. If a resource is not explicitly under an open license, I would not be able to use it properly in text mining projects for fear of legal issues. Again, the main problem then is that we have a legal landscape that does not allow us to do properly the activities of education, whether we speak on elementary, high school, or university. And this means that there is a need to rethink the legal and regulatory framework in the region. The position of our countries on the copyright waivers for emergencies at WTO or the agenda of copyright flexibilities on the WIPOC also shows how we still need to do more pressure on policy just to echo what Magia said. Thank you very much. Thank you, Caroline. Thank you very much. And thank you also to Maya. And the main points from what I noted while you were speaking is that first of all in the study was found that when the connectivity is there, when the legal framework is in place, teachers are able to actually use OER effectively. And I think what's really interesting is the point that you made earlier about the fact that teachers and their informal collaboration. And because this is a point that comes up often in the debates, they say, well, teachers don't want to share their information, blah, blah, blah. But in fact, you've shown in the study that teachers do want to collaborate, teachers do want to use OER. And when the conditions are correct, then it's, then it's really possible to go very far with it. The issue of copyright exceptions for education came up in both presentations and I think it's something that has to be discussed a bit further. It's part of the copyright law discussions that are happening in the European framework and also in other parts of the world. Then the both speakers speaking from two different parts of the world and the Atlantic Ocean between the two pointed out the need for ensuring that the legal conditions are favorable for teachers and learners to use OER. And that means that they have to be, there has to be a reduction of the barriers and a reduction of the legal uncertainty of actually doing so. And strategic support for this from a higher governmental level also. I think the studies that you spoke about that saying the fact that the digital divide is both in capacity and with the connectivity is an important point to be, to really underscore and that the legal landscape has to be favorable for us to be able to, for learning to happen in an opening framework. And thank you very much. So I will go on to question three. I will ask Maya first. What are the examples of good practices, challenges and solutions where OER has supported the right to information and the building of inclusive knowledge societies? Dirk, can I give you the floor? Yes, thank you. Thank you, Zeneb. If you ask me about good practices, I would say from my view of the situation and I have not been able to do really some additional research on this. But what brings me to, what comes to my mind is still the same kind of organizations and initiatives that are in existence since let's say five, six, seven years. Creative Commons, of course, national initiatives in the Netherlands and Poland and many other countries. But what bothers me is, and I don't know whether it really falls under the label of good practices, is that there is a lot of, there is a huge gray zone of teachers working with all kinds of resources and adapting them to their own needs, reusing them, working together. Often, under the surface of what we officially or legally call open educational resources under the surface of licensing. And I think in the COVID pandemic, many teachers have increased their collaboration with colleagues. So there is a huge, there is a kind of sea of un tapped opportunity. There are a gray zone, which we are not able to see through our normal systems. And that's reassuring on the one hand, and that's very positive. On the other hand, it's a bit worrisome because from a legal point of view, they are not existing. And I know teachers who use open educational resources because they are often high quality, but they are not meeting the requirements of licensing adapted versions of it. Sometimes the burden, the legal burden, the licensing burden is sometimes too high for individual teachers. So they just take it from the net. They use it. They reuse it. They adapt it to their own needs. They sometimes share it within the groups of teachers in a certain discipline, and that's it. And I am hesitant to call that good practice. I think it's a very important practice at the moment. It's maybe not the best practice, but it exists. But I see that Maya is again with us. So maybe we should give her the floor first. Maya, would you like to take the floor? I think that the best example actually is how, for example, the study that I mentioned before, how open educational resources helped us to cope with the pandemic. I mean, more than 50% of teachers use open educational resources. And I know that in Europe, publishers at the beginning of the pandemic, they were offering their materials for free, but even without payment. But even that did not change the importance of OER in this context. So I think this is the example how OER saved us in these very, very pressing times. I mean, whoever is building OER or contributing to OER is building a beautiful community who understands how it's important to share and help each other. But of course, for the end, I will say, although this is a very good example, we should not rely just on OER. This is just one, the brother and the sister is a good balance copyright system. And OER recommendation addresses this as well. We should not just say that OER will say everything because they will not. It's important to have a good, effective, broad and un renumerated exception for education. I mean, in Europe, right now, it's in the final phase of the copyright reform. But if we see, for example, what Carolina said before, in Latin American countries, you rarely see a country with educational exception. Why is that? It seems I'm following the process at WIPO, which is from the same family as UNESCO, we must say. I mean, at WIPO, World Intellectual Property Organization, the exceptions and limitations for public interests are discussed. The developed countries are not in favor of such exceptions and limitations. Why not? It's probably because of the publishers from those developed countries have something to say. So I'm bringing this up in this forum because it's extremely important. OER are important. UNESCO is doing a great job with recommendation. And this will give important push to build better policies. I'm sorry for this noise, but it's also extremely important to not just rely on OER, but also like to continue to advocate, to work for a balanced copyright system, which in the case of education and research means operational, broad, clear exceptions for education and research. And we still need a long way to go there. And I'm very happy that UNESCO understands these issues because UNESCO is important. Before I was talking about brother and system, good balance copyright system and OER, but let me now talk about cousins. If the UNESCO is cousin of WIPO, World Intellectual Property Organization, it would be good to discuss at a family dinner that for many, many countries globally, exceptions and limitations for education and research as well are extremely important. So thank you for giving me opportunity to bring this up. I will continue to follow this conference. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thanks so much for joining us, especially from your busy schedule in between planes. And we greatly appreciate it, man. Just today, Zainab. Otherwise, I'm always available to discuss the importance of balanced copyright system and OER, especially if you and your team invites me. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. Caroline, would you like to say some words? Sure. Thank you very much for the opportunity. I would just like to say that precisely because in the foundation, we've been working on the issues of connectivity in the rural areas. During the pandemic, we were able to deploy several places and a small local network that we use. It's really very easy. We turn the computers of the libraries of rural schools or the teachers from rural schools turn them into servers that provide a Wi-Fi signal that any person with a device, mobile device or laptop or tablette, can access and everything that is on the computer will be available for them. This was a great solution in many places with low connectivity or non connectivity at all. And it was possible because we were able to upload there a huge amount of content under the OER logic. So not just the Wikipedia, but also many books and other OERs that were available in Spanish. And we were also helping, doing some kind of support to these teachers. And this turned out to be a great solution. In one of the schools, for instance, in Fresno-Tolima, a very... a coffee region with a lot of mountains and very bad connectivity, the computers that were available at the school were sent to the houses of some of the mothers of the students and become hubs of themselves in different areas of the region, of the rural region. This was another good solution. And there, mostly the connectivity would be done via WhatsApp. So the communication was between the students to the teacher, to the computer of the mother, and the mother would do the connection to send the homework, for instance, or receive information from the teacher via WhatsApp. I'm just mentioning this because really the conditions of what could be said as remote or distant education are very challenging and none of the very nice and well-conceived OERs will work. You need very easy things. And the truth is that this is still very good for the students because otherwise, all these students will remain with no capacity to connect to technology and this will leave them behind in the future of labor, for instance. So, yeah, I just wanted to highlight that even low-tech can be very well-used and bring some kind of technology education to underserved children. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you very much, Caroline. So you've provided an example of a good practice that was done where basically a family created a hub using WhatsApp. While you're speaking, I'm thinking of all the things that WhatsApp has been able to do in the last several years and it's really turned into quite a tool. And thank you also, Maya, for sharing the information on the OER family and the copyright family and reminding us that there are a lot of people around this table and in this copyright family that we need to make sure communicating with each other and sometimes we talk about one child but there are many children in the family and it's an interesting point that we often do not address properly. We have a little bit of time, five minutes, left in this program. We have two questions. I think we have the first one I'll read out loud and I'll just ask if anyone has any inputs to it. We see more MOOCs than OERs even by the universities. I see use of e-learning more than open learning. I think there is a question about the licensing of MOOCs and the difference between e-learning and open learning. Would anybody like to respond? Caroline, please, you're shaking your head so I think that means you want to talk. Well, the second part, the e-learning and open learning, yeah, there are lots of difference there Of course, e-learning means that you are really using the technology and it doesn't matter. I mean, the technology you are using whereas open learning in the past was meant to be the distance learning. Right now, the issue of the legal aspect had turned out that when you speak about openness, you are meaning that there are the three elements. So technology, the legal aspect of open licenses and that you have access for free. But I agree that there are many, the wordings are changing and it could be confusing. Again, e-learning is, well, that's what I've learned during the years. E-learning is education that is being intermediated with technology, with different kinds of technologies. Open learning was in the past distance learning that could have or not technology. But right now, there is the confusion because openness means the three elements as well of legal, economical and technological barriers are taken out for learning. And that would be my explanation of the differences. Thank you. Thank you very much, Maya. Dirk, would you like to add anything? Well, I think Maya was correct. I don't have anything to add. So the simple answer to the question is MOOCs are not always OERs and OERs are not always MOOCs. But there is some overlap between the two. But it is true, as I read the question, the suggestion is true that especially in higher education, resources are not really the preferred mode of developing online content. So there are many universities who try to develop their courses into MOOCs. Nothing against that. But it is a bit of a pity that they are not really embracing the OER philosophy, the licensing framework and all the tools that is available in an OER environment. So MOOCs are sometimes also developed because of a commercial perspective. Even if the revenue generation by MOOCs is always very modest. But it would be, I think, advisable for universities who want to engage in sharing their courses online to really embrace open educational resources frameworks. Thank you. Thank you very much, Dirk. And we have one last question which is in French. I'll read it out loud in French and the interpreters can perhaps interpret it into English. If you have, if you need the headset. Il y a beaucoup de règles disponibles. Comment sélectionner les plus crédibles et scientifiquement valables? Par exemple, quelles règles en informatique ou en génie civine sont les meilleurs? So the question is about how to best, there are lots of OER available. How do you choose the most credible ones and the most scientifically valid ones? Yes, go ahead, Dirk. Yes, please. Well, I really like this question. It's a really important one. And it's one with which many people are suffering. When I speak to people, they are always very sympathetic to OER, but they always come back. How can I possibly select in the thousands of available resources what is high quality? So there is really a need for some intermediate organization. Maybe it should not be a physical organization, but the kind of mechanism through which the high quality resources are curated, made available. That's a very sensitive issue because in the OER world, quality assurance of open educational resources is still a little bit a sensitive topic. But I really think we have to make advances in this area of curating quality assuring, maybe accrediting resources from a quality perspective. Because users, it's not, the situation is not user friendly for the moment. And I see the question as an expression of this lack of user friendliness which we have in the system right now. Thank you. Caroline, would you like to say anything? No, really. I totally agree with Dirk. OK. One thing that has come up on this question in the other debates has been that open educational resources are educational resources. So in principle, they have to be at the same or above quality of resources which are licensed, fully licensed. So I think as we started the discussion, open educational resources are talking about, we're talking about the licensing matter at the heart and open educational resource is defined as such because of its license. But at the same time, it's also an educational resource and we mustn't think that because it's openly licensed it has sort of a free pass to anything. So we have to, I think we have to also consider that it is, it has to go through the same process, it has to go through the same rigor as any other resource that's used in the classroom learning. So it's, it has been brought up quite a bit in the debates also. So I think we're two minutes over time but I would like to thank all of our speakers for their time and all of you, the participants has been a very long international day for universal access to information. In fact, it's been two days if you counted really chronologically we've been celebrating since yesterday so it's been a really long day and I think we're the last webinar on this one and I'd like to thank you all for coming and I'd like to thank you very much Caroline, Derek, Maya, who's had to leave us. I said to the interpreters the technicians and thank you very much and I wish you the very best and we look forward to working with all of you very soon on the next adventures that we have with our webinars and our other projects. Thank you so much for your time and thank you for also your insights into this very interesting webinar. Bye bye. Bye, thank you.