 Welcome to Toffy TV. Listen, there was a fantastic article last week on the athletic about Kieran Dahl and Jel Virginia on loan at Derby and Reading respectfully. Now, it's probably gone under the radar considering there's a lot of stuff going on at Evan at the moment, but we thought we'd have a little chat about it and the whole loan situation at Evan and the under 23s as well. Evan checked out the athletics. Fantastic. Brilliant time to get it as well, just in time. Little Christmas stocking fill it. You get 30 days free trial and you get 50% off as well. Some cracking, cracking jainless on it. Some of the best in the world. We've got Paddy Boyland and Greg O'Keefe looking after the evidence stuff. They just started a new podcast as well called Glad Tidings. Gladys in Gladys Street to check out as well. They have really good stories all the time on their proper, proper evidence stories. Not click baity, not pop-upy nonsense, proper stories. The link is in the description if you want to check that out. Listen, Christmas coming. You can get the free trial, give it to someone for Christmas and then pay for it in January. They don't know, do they? They have no idea. You know what I'm saying? All the money you spend in December, you could pay for this Christmas in January. Kieran Dahl, he's gone a bit stale at the Derby County, not playing games or football for them. It's just not really happening for him. It never really happened before it's for him. Never really happened the Chief of the United for him and now it's not happening at Derby County. What does he do? Where does he go? Must have come and done Almanita. Kieran Dahl. Exactly. He's not getting in three different managers. To be fair he started for us really well. I think he ended up with nine or ten goals. When he changed the manager in about March and that was the end of him. He was out there then. He came back and was out editing for the first part of last season, played in the Carabao Cup in Southampton. He went around earlier, didn't he? He was all right. Went to Chef United in January, done all right. Was in and out. Played him centre mid, left wing back. Looked like they might keep him for a while for this year, but decided against it. He went off to Derby before pre-season. He went off to America to begin the pre-season there. Philip Coghw was very enthused with him when he got him. He turned a couple of clubs down to go there. He got in the team at the start. He was in the team early on. He hasn't played a game now for him since the end of October. He played it under 23 games about two weeks ago. He's been on the bench regularly, but he doesn't know where to get on. It's just feeling like he's lost really. What does he do? It's that crucial time, isn't it, when you're going from being a young, up-and-coming player to being a player who needs to be playing football every single week. Having that consistency. I think one of the big problems is his position. What is he? Gone are the days where you can have a great left foot and smash goals in like Kevin Sheedy. It's all about systems and pressing and where you are in a formation. It's not 4-4-2 anymore. It's interesting systems that rely on people to do their particular jobs to make it work. I don't know if he fits in that, whether you can just smash one in every now and again. When he was in the under-23s, because that's what he used to do in the under-23s, he'd do nothing and then he'd smash one in. I don't know if there's a place in the editing team that wants to come back here, because I don't understand just the lies on that. But now it's not even to happen for him. What's going to confuse the matter even more is Darby County are going to have Wayne Rooney playing for them in about a month's time. He's going to be coming to the club. But it'd be interesting what happens in the meantime, whether Wayne Rooney's influence can maybe affect here and that, maybe he can speak to the connection from Everton and say to him, listen, this is what you need to do if you want to be. Maybe the message isn't getting through from Koku. Maybe he's looked at him and gone, you're not good enough and just gone. I don't want to deal with you. You're not one of my players. You can just sit on the bench. I've been paining for you, so sound. Maybe something like Wayne Rooney coming in could have that influence where he listens. Maybe. I mean, listen, I remember Rooney's first game for Everton in Gormare here and we were in here watching it. He smashed one in from 25 yards and then Dahl scored and I had to be worthy. And then scored another cracker against 20. Then we beat them three and Rooney was on the pitch then as well. So he trained with Wayne Rooney and he'll know each other from that time. The issue is Wayne can play number 10 on the ground or a centre forward. So it could go two ways with him. You'd like to think Wayne would grab hold of him and give him some advice and maybe be the buffer between him and Koku. I imagine Koku's a straight up and Dutch fella because they all seem to be. So maybe it's just like that to Dahl. You're not doing enough at the moment, which is why you're not in. Ciaran Dahl is one of those players that maybe he's going to have to redefine what he is as a footballer. You know, Guilfee was saying it now. The game has moved on a bit now in the last couple of years that you have to do more than just wait for those special moments. When we've seen Dahl, it's been on the periphery against and then he will kill one in the top corner. You go, wow, what a goal, but you forget that the other 88 minutes, he was walking around the pitch uninterested. So maybe he's going to have to get himself a position that he's involved in the game more. And now that we've been, I mean, Michael should have tried him in the centre of the midfield last season and at the Carabao Cup. I don't think he's quite good enough to play in there. And now England have used him as a six to spread a ball about. And he done all right. So, you know, he does play a lot for the 21s or he has played a lot for the 21s. But I don't know. I really don't know what you would do with him. I think talent wise, he's a Premier League footballer. He's got that ability in that left foot. Brilliant. But he's got nothing else at the moment suggesting that he's going to make it in the Premier League. I think you're right about finding the position, getting a position and stick to a position. I don't think he can play centre midfield. I don't think he's got the engine for it. I think maybe something like something off the right he could play, you know, coming in on that left foot could help if it was in the right system. But for me, he's got to go somewhere now. And it might be permanent where whoever gets older, gets older for the right reasons. The one and we see John Joe over in Chelsea, you know, he was taking it to do a job. But for them, not for us, for them, I mean, benefit to us, but for them. And I think it's the same with Keir and Dahl. Someone's got to take him and, you know, if it's on a permanent, it might be better because he's got some, then he maybe feels like he belongs somewhere. And the money, you know, you can't miss about lower than in the league. You've got to buy, when you buy a player, you've got to play him. You haven't got the money to start going where we've paid a couple of million quid for you, but you're not doing well, so go and sit over there. You've got to play them through that. And I think it's very easy when you've got someone on loan and you think, well, I'm just developing them for somebody else. To just say, yeah, go and sit over there. We don't... The easiest drop, I think. Yeah, they're the first ones. So I honestly think his everything career is over at this stage. Right now, you'd have to go somewhere to turn it down. I think you'd have to go somewhere for a couple of years for a start and then never address the situation because the way they've done the loan so far is, you know, forest, change the manager goes out. Sheffield is united. They liked them. They played them in some games when they were getting to the tough end of the season, but the minute they got promoted, it was like, thanks, but no thanks. We need a core set of players who are going to do what we need. And I think that was very telling, I think. Sheffield is united. They didn't take him on loan for the Premier League because everyone was thinking, ah, the Premier League don't need this and that. And their manager was like, no, no, I need players that I can count on. And then Dabi's, as you said, the same. It's great to get him in pre-season. Oh, it's great. And then when it starts getting a little bit tough, what he got, and it just seems like he hasn't got enough. I think the fear for him is he falls between the cracks of not knowing what he is. And that's a worry to us. I think you've got to identify a position, stick to it. You've got to work hard with the kid himself. He's had it easy. I imagine coming through the academy, I think, I've probably been like, oh, this kid can score for me after all. I'm a water player and he can ghost it on the pitch. We know what kids football is like. We've seen enough of it. And then when people are relying on you every week on the money, people are paying the money to watch it on the terraces if you're not doing it quickly on the team. And he's got to get that hunger from somewhere that he's got to do a bit more. Otherwise, he's got to end up nowhere. And on top of that, we've got to Aberdynia at Reading, who, you know, Reading took him with the decent financial thing from Everton to encourage to play him. And they were told he wasn't going to be buying anyone, really, so it sounded good he was going to play him then. I think it's a different one, isn't it? It's a different case, this one, because a goalkeeper, obviously, is a different thing. Reading took him, and for us, we've probably been thinking, brilliant. A year in the championship playing, but they've looked at it and said, we need more than this. They went out and bought a goalkeeper, and now we find himself either on the bench or not involved at all. He's got to be playing. He has made mistakes, and what they're probably saying is, why has he made mistakes for us? Why are we getting this player now and Evan will get the benefit later? I just think it's maybe it's the wrong fit and Evan haven't been sold something that's not real. Maybe it was said, listen, we haven't got the money to go and buy another goalkeeper. We're going to buy this, this and this. I think Virginia, he's clearly still got a future of Evan. I think that maybe he just needs to go and find football somewhere, and it doesn't matter where, because saving shots is saving shots. Get the basics right, get your kicking right, get all those things you need in modern football. But go down, like Jordan Pickford did, go down to the lower leagues and play for a year solid. Place where you can hit a fella behind you, shouting at you. Just learn to play being a goalkeeper, what it means. Men's football. The problem is that at Redding, he made that mistake, or he makes a mistake in a cup game or whatever, and then he's out the team, and he can't ratify that. It's like maybe in that division you make that mistake and you go, you know what? OK, get that out my head, and away we go, and next week the same. And start becoming a professional footballer, because probably all these kids is, they're pampered, and they play in the under-23s, and it's great, and you win a couple of trophies in its boss. But there's no real jeopardy for them, because they're playing in like a safe environment, and then they step up to the men's league, and then they become real consequences to their actions, whether for them, or whether for the team, or whether for the supporters. It becomes real. And I think they've got a lane to deal with that mentally. Yeah, it's a massive side of the game. That's right, you go and play where you can. Pickford played in every division. He's still making mistakes. At the end of the day, goalkeepers are goalkeepers. They make a mistake, invariably, it's a goal, and everyone picks up on it, don't they? Defenders, you keep it, you can get your out of trouble, and midfield they can get you, you know, a defender can help you, whatever. Strike him, this is a goal, someone else can score. If you goalie, let go through his arms, it's a goal, not much you can do. And so you're right, you do have to play and play through it, and you'll have to convince people watching, whether that's your coach, whether that's your fans, that you are actually a goalie. For him, he made an error against Hull early on in the league, slipped through his hands, and it went in. He was out the team. He put him back in for the game against Wolves. He let one from 25 yards go through his grass, or bounce off him and go in. Now he played 90 minutes, I think, and penalties in that. So he drew one, won that night, went out on penalties. So he's played the whole game, and he's let one in, he's made other good saves, but people are just looking back going, like that one through his arm. And if he had had a league game on the set, he could have got that out, if people had gone and played well. You're right, he's in, he's out, he's in, he's out. So even if he went to, I don't know, even a league two-side or whatever, if he struggled with, like maybe, you know, having got the money to spend and all whatever. If they've only got a small pot, and they're like, well, we need a centre forward, we need a goalie, but we'll buy a centre forward and we'll loan a goalie in. Things like that, you will find that. He needs games is what he needs to develop, but then, you know, on the back, I'd have to hold things a bit messed up, isn't it? You've seen it, the 21s. The other night. The 21s were the 23s, isn't it? Playing in the leasing.com trophy against Fleetwood. Obviously they've got to be 4-0, but three very late goals, which probably comes down to fitness levels. But there's some kids in the under-23s. They shouldn't be having a football club. And I mean that for them. There's kids who are like, and we said this on other videos, part of it is this thing of being like an under-23 player and like someone thinking you're a footballer. Like, you know, you go back on the day, like you would have good pros, you'd be in the resies, and that's all they ever did. And that's all, but they weren't like, do you know what I mean? They weren't like going round town, going, I play for Evan. You were a resie. You know, it's great you were there at the club, but you know what I mean? Now it's almost like, it seemed like David Henin when he was at the club, and he was like, you think he was Ronaldo the way he acted on like Instagram and all that kind of thing. And I think there's too much. I'm not saying that happens. Because you put the branding, you slap the branding on it, primarily to. And you're playing a good son, you're playing at these boss-taining grounds. It somehow becomes more than it actually is, and you're not actually grounding them. You're almost saying to them, this is a level. And you know, it's nice that we won the trophies and all that, but that shouldn't be the bar. The bar should be, are you getting a chance to get in the first team? And very few have. You know, Benninga Bee's been on the bench, ironically, he got injured this week. Benninga Bee's been on the bench recently. Lewis Gibson has seen as the fourth centre back, although he's never been on the bench, played pre-season. Tom's in the team, Gordon's now on the bench, but there's not. We've paid a lot of money for a lot of players in the last two, three years at both levels. And I don't mind, right, if you're bringing under twenty-three's in, but when you're letting them go for nothing, you haven't got a plan for them. I mean, listen, I don't know how much control brands is trying to take back or trying to get everything in place, but it feels like it's not getting done right at the moment. You're seeing kids who play for Liverpool's Academy leaving for millions of pounds, and your ars are leaving for free. So it's like, if that's an investment that you're putting money in, then at least weep something out of it at the end if they're not good enough, we just seem to let them go for free. Something we've definitely got to get better at, because it helps with everything, helps with FFP and everything with your academy making money in. What I really worry about with Everton's Academy is that we used to be seen as, we used to hoover up all the local kids. Because people would say, our academy is like the one. Liverpool, you'll never get a chance at Liverpool. But Klopp changed the money he came in. He brought that game and philosophy in of like, we make plays for the national team, for our team, but for other teams as well. Klopp looked at Liverpool and basically said, why isn't this place self-sufficient? Why am I basically losing money in the transfer market because you're doing all this with it? This place should be self-sufficient. No one likes to sell players, but you've got to be realistic about it. And I've heard this before, other academies at lower teams, they say, why have we got an academy when you've got 11 players on the pitch for one player who might break through? It doesn't make any sense. And it's the same with Evan. You might have two players in that under-23s who might or might not make it. And the other nine in the team are just basically in there for him. So surely it should be, well if I'm paying money for him, then I should be getting some money for him. And then we're leasing them at the right time and the site keeps going, you bring them in if they're not good enough, you get something out. Wherever you've put into that player financially, you've got to be getting back. Yeah, definitely. I mean, we've got too many. When you look at our 23s, there's too many with 21 and 22. Nathan Broder is on loan, he's 22. You know, we don't know, I appreciate him, but he's not going to get an evidence face. Not good enough. You can't compare him to Bernard and people like that. And yet, if he'd gone on loan maybe last year or left the club at last year, he could be going the Euros with Wales this year. Because there's a lot of Welsh players and because the way Giggs has done things, he's put young players and he could be at a championship team and doing really, really well. I know he's a baiting, but he could be at a championship team doing really well and be on the cusp of that. Well, I mean, he might still get in because he's done all right. I think he said he was in a group of Welsh under 21s and he was the only one who had another full debut. And the reason why is because those other lads had played for the team, whether it be in the championship or not. We've got too many like, you know, Anthony Evans, Harry Charles, had to be on loan and come back, who I don't think are going to make it an evidence. And we're not helping their careers. We're not helping their careers. They shouldn't come back. And I hope that no one wants to take them. We need to be getting them out of the door quickly because our 21s, 23s, should be a ground for, you know, developing 80s. People like Alice Sims take in the other night. Now, I don't know whether he's good enough or he's not good enough forever. I don't know what he's going to be. He's a kid, right? But he was subred the other night. I knew him and the ass was playing. Now, okay, they might argue and go, well, we're trying to get the ass in the shop window. We'll try to go anyway and people know what he can do. So Alice Sims, you know, so it's things like that. And we've seen that in other with other people as well. So I just think we need a whole change of philosophy and it's 18, 19. And then when you're 19, it's like, can we get you alone? Are you good enough? Can we get you alone? And if not, you know, but we've seen Karen Phillips, who signed a contract in the summer professional contract. He's now on trial at Sheffield United. So he signed in the summer. It's November and they're trying to move them on. So if we are making quick decisions, then hopefully that's the beginning of it. We need to make it. We'll wait and see what happens. We'll wait and see. But obviously, Karen Dahl's definitely one for me that shouldn't be an Everton player anymore because I just think if he hasn't made it by now, he's not going to make it in our first team. So we have to be more ruthless, I think, on all these kids. A lot more sell them and put a buy back in. Yeah. Maybe it does well. We did that with plays in the summer. So why not? We'll see what happens. We'll see what happens. Listen, if you want to read this article that's in the athletic, make sure you check that out. Don't forget you get a 30 day free trial and it's 50% off. If you click the link in the description. Thank you for watching Toffy TV. See you later.