 Okay, welcome everyone, so I'm not familiar with some of these names and I'm looking at Joey LaHulia, okay, got it. So you're first up if you'd like to take a seat and introduce yourself to the committee or I Have you been here before? Okay, so we'll introduce ourselves first Thanks. I'm Chip Triano. I represent the Hardware Standard in Walden Vampire I'm representing for Jens Harrisburg, welcome No voice, we can introduce you Mary Harbert from Rutland City Okay, and you are the owner of what book farm Yes, welcome Thank you. Yes, so my name is Joey LaHulia For food farm, we are an organic vegetable farm in Johnson, Memorial County We grow about 145 different varieties of vegetables and fruits We are probably at the eighth largest organic farm in the state out of 6 farms I'm here today because I am very concerned about the minimum wage and how much it is increasing every year With the understanding that if it passes, it could be $15 an hour I'm not sure about the year, maybe 2022 or I'm not sure before That being said, the minimum wage has been going up a little bit every year For us, it feels like a lot Our farm is enrolled in the H2A program, which is a federal program And the reason for that, and that is we have workers that come from Jamaica every year We entered into that program four years ago for a number of reasons But mostly because we don't have the employees that want to come and work on the farm anymore So we were really struggling with finding help, but we were really struggling to get good help or experienced help One year, it was 2013, we went through 50 employees through our farm We only need about 14 to 17 That being said, we do not have that number coming, not being on our door anymore So having the H2A program and having those workers come is really vital to our business But because we're in the H2A program, our minimum wage is set And that minimum wage is based off of what the minimum wage is in Vermont So each state has a different H2A minimum wage This year, our minimum wage is $13.25 We do have management staff and people that have been with us for a number of years So those folks are obviously a lot higher than that In the last few years, we've been really struggling financially And the way that we've been dealing with that is just decreasing the number of employees that we have coming into the farm And that is obviously causing a giant stress on myself But mainly my husband who is the farmer and who is just every year saying, I'm just going to keep doing more And he's at the point now where he can't really do anymore I'm worried about his health and his well-being I'm also worried about our business I have a lot of administrative experience So I do a profit and loss plan every year for our farm and a budget And I look at every single number and everything coming in and look to see where we can cut And what we can do to stay in business And this year, I just trying to go through those numbers and meet them work was really, really hard And I feel very strongly that if we get to $15 an hour, no matter how many years it takes We are not going to make it We can't raise the price of our vegetables and fruits to a point where people will still buy them So that is my idea And I do understand that Vermont, our citizens in Vermont all have different realities But I'm hoping that there's going to be some solution Whether it be different minimum wage rates for different people, I'm not sure But I hope that we can get some solution Because I have reached out to other farms that are just like me and we're all really, really concerned Where do you market your products, your produce? So we wholesale through deep root organic co-op We also sell to hunger men We sell to farmers to you We do a farmers market in Morrisville We market out to all the little other little co-ops and grocery stores You know, I wanted to mention to you for years we donated a ton of produce to We were farmer of the year for years for the Vermont Food Bank because we were able to donate hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pounds of produce We don't have the staff anymore to be able to grow that extra food So we tighten everything up, we still donate as much as we can But it affects a lot A bad weather year can just completely, you know, where we were able in years to be able to kind of weather those fluctuations Where financially not as able to weather them How many acres do you have in cultivation at this point? Between 35 and 40 And do you primarily hire at harvest season? Is that when your payroll is the highest? So do you realize that 1375 I think you said? 1325 1325 at your H2A minimum wage is two years away from the schedule That's paying what would be required of you two years from now as a minimum wage Do you understand that? I mean, you wear that? I do understand that and when you're at 1325 we'll be at 15 something Because the H2A minimum wage is connected directly to each state's minimum wage So every state has a different H2A minimum wage to help Okay So it's usually average $1.50 to $2.00 higher than the interstate The interstates say yes, representative Clark I thought in the bill we're looking at and it continues is that agricultural workers are exempt from the minimum wage That is correct unless you are So I understand So because we are part of the H2A program That makes us kind of not exempt anymore And I understand, you know, that's a choice that we made But it's a choice that we couldn't live without We had to We don't have people at table work on the farm anymore And if they do, I promise you that if somebody comes to our farm and they want to try it out And they want to work on the farm, we absolutely give everybody a chance to try it out I would say about one out of five workers that come Which again, we really don't have those people coming anymore But if they do, only one out of five generally stay with us And then even if they do stay with us for a year, they're not returning the next year or the year after that It might be just to get them through their season because they're a ski instructor Or something along those lines But the H2A program is really vital for us If we lost that, we really wouldn't be able to grow vegetables Any H2A program is a program in which you can hire migrant workers And could you explain a little bit more to the committee in case that they're not totally aware of it? Sure, that is correct I don't know everything about that program But what I will tell you, there are 55 of those farms in Vermont 55 are using this program There are over 500 workers working in the state of Vermont every year We usually get them May 1st and they stay until middle of November Our workers come from Jamaica Three of them will be with us for the fifth year this year So that or fourth year So that is to have that kind of experience And to have them return every year We are kind of their second home And we don't want to do it without them We don't want to do it without them They're part of our family So not having the H2A program is also not We provide lodging and food We provide lodging We do not have to provide food But we do have to nurse together quite often But lodging, we have to pay for them to fly here We have to pay for them to fly home You know their heat, their water, their electricity, their internet All of that we take care of It's a very expensive program to be in But again we really couldn't do it without them The benefit is certainly worth it And in consistency or longevity of employment I mean certainly people come back and understand And know your process and your work Are a considerable advantage Yes, and they come here with experience too And I think that that's important When we have folks that are in colleges And want to come to our farm We're paying them, we have to pay them $13.25 of course as well They don't have any experience So we have to train them And use all our resources to get them trained But they don't have any experience So these guys have a ton of experience They know how to go out in the field And pick and weed and do all the things that we need them to do Because we really need them So with the wage tied to Vermont's minimum wage And Vermont's minimum wage would go up to $11.25 next year or so What incorrect would you be experiencing In your obligation to pay under the H2A program That you know or is it? I'm not sure how the federal government sets those wages But I know that every year it's been just about $2 So if we're at, you know, we were at $12.86 last year This year we're at $13.25 So it seems like it raises just around the same amount as in Vermont And we're at $10.78 right now, yeah Okay, and that happens annually Yes And you get a notice from the federal government to that effect Yes, we use an agency That you know helps us Get through all of the big work and stuff So they let us know This is what you have to do is Okay, any questions? Okay, so Joe, thanks very much for coming in I appreciate your input And when you hear, oh, Earhart is next Okay, well, you've been here before No need for introductions I have Two times, yeah Okay, well nothing's changed Non-housing Well, housing relates to everything Yes Thanks for the record Earhart Makka, testifying on behalf of the Vermont Full Housing Coalition In support of the minimum wage Does anybody need a hard copy of our handout? So The handout that's Up on the board Is one that I think you've seen before At least some of you have And basically My testimony is going to be Around housing affordability And why, what the gap is Between what folks who are working At minimum wage jobs And all around that Lower-wage sector jobs What they can and can't afford Given our housing market And housing affordability issues And all of that Is to say that We've always strongly supported increases In the minimum wage Because there has been a long-standing gap Between what folks who are working For 50 and sometimes 60 hours a week At low-wage sector jobs What they can afford And what's available on the market And that gap has been there For pretty much as long as I've been involved In affordable housing And some of the ways That we've helped to fill that gap You know well We've done a little more affordable housing Which we fund through The Ron Housing Conservation Board We provide federal And state rental assistance With public dollars To help fill that gap But obviously another way To help make up the difference Is to raise For people to be earning more Our basic feeling is That people working part 40 hours a week Should be able to afford A basic life necessity Safe And decent housing So I'll just go over A few of these numbers Just to kind of make the point of What that gap is And this is information From an annual study By our National Association The National Welcome Housing Coalition It's called Out of Reach It comes out usually in May or June Every year so unfortunately All I have is 2018 numbers Probably after you folks adjourn And this is just to kind of refresh This is based on an affordability standard That if you're paying More than 30% of your income For your shelter costs And for rental housing That includes utilities So when we're talking about affordability We're talking about gross rent So rent and utilities Your total cost to rent Right to unit So if you're paying Life necessities If you're paying 40, 50, 60 And we have examples Of people paying 70% Of their disposable income For their shelter costs They're a step away from homelessness Which will ultimately result Not just in Difficult situation For that family Or that individual involved But ultimately will also cost The state more money To get themselves out of the spiral The downward spiral Of homelessness So one of the standards that Out of Reach study uses Is what we call the housing wage The housing wage Is what you would need to earn On an hourly basis If you're working 52 weeks A year 40 hours a week To not paying More than 30% of your income For a typical two bedroom rent Right So for 2018 Average statewide for Vermont That was $22.40 an hour Obviously that's already Considerably higher than the $15 An hour minimum wage That you would get The bill passes both chambers Signed by the governor Then you would get to By 2024 But I think it makes the point That there is a very large Help decrease that gap Would in our view Would be helpful So that $22.40 an hour Is the statewide Average housing wage And that's based on A two bedroom Typical two bedroom Apartment rent Gross rent again including utilities And this was last year's number It's actually gone up for this year It's based on an average Two bedroom rent of $1,165 A month Obviously rent is higher In the Chippin County area It's higher in the upper Sometimes the upper Connecticut River Valley Lower in the Northeast Kingdom Lower in Rutland, Bennington Counties And so in the Bottom left-hand corner You see some of the other Housing wages It's a whopping $27.73 an hour For Windsor County $20.65 an hour Washington $20.46 an hour Addison Skipping over $19.63 an hour There's actually a further Breakdown Because obviously a number of Counties are there on page two Get to that in a moment Where all the counties Renters in those Each of your Your local periods And just to highlight A couple of other data points On the first page of this So to afford that two bedroom That typical two bedroom Rental apartment You would have to work 85 hours a week At our current minimum wage For one bedroom apartment You would have to work 68 hours a week At minimum wage And I'll just say Obviously if you have Two wagers in a household Then You could probably Afford that Two bedroom apartment By working not much more than 40 Hours a week each But if you're a single parent You're tough luck Because you really can't afford If you're a single mom Or a single dad You're going to have to work Way more than you ought to be Just a basic life necessity For renters We have approximately 75,000 renter households In the state of Vermont We have a very high Home ownership rate One of the highest in the country 71% of our household Homeowners 29% Are renters Rent affordable With a full-time job Paying the mean Renter wage So the mean renter wage Is half of our renters We're above that Half total Of the rent that's affordable Is $668 A month So that is Literally Just over Half of The typical two bedroom apartment So there's a very large gap About a $500 gap Between What the mean Renter wage Pays in Vermont And what is affordable On a state-wide basis We have a question there Sorry, go ahead So I don't have a problem Just I want to ask a question While we're on this topic So Of the number that applied To the rental Price, I guess I guess what my question is What are you basing on As like a percentage of income Being allocated to rent To quantify that number of The 30% It's a long-standing Industry standard In mortgage underwriting It's roughly equivalent to In a home ownership situation To 28% Of your income Going for principal And first tax insurance And rental housing All the affordable housing programs That were federally funded Used that standard So the remaining percentage Of getting up to 100% How does that break down As far as I'm guessing Made at expenses Obviously it's like What are the big pockets In that? Well I'm not prepared To talk about All the different aspects Of your basic needs Study Joint fiscal Does that every other year For you But If you look at The Vermont-specific study That JFO does It includes A lot of nuances About different size Families Whether it's one person Two person With child Without children And Whether or not it's rural Or not So we do have Vermont-specific information About basic needs That is not as Not as focused on housing But the other aspects of this If you have children Obviously child care As you just mentioned In some situations Child care Can be a greater Expensive housing If you live further Out From a job center Your transportation costs Are going to be higher In fact there's Almost an inverse Relationship Between housing costs And transportation costs Housing costs Are higher Closer to job centers Transportation lower If you live Close to jobs And if you're in a more Rural area Living further away from A job center You're paying more For transportation So there's Kind of It's actually some In-season Combined to say We are like Horrible public transportation Systems Well there In a rural state We have a lot of challenges Yeah Representative Galaki That's the question Eric Explain to me that The living wage This is 13 83 or something 43 But is it 13.47 So what's the different Calibration here That this one is So this is This is solely focused On housing Right And that is I would say more nuanced Because it does include All these other Yeah All the other costs That Representative Byron Was just referring to Or asking that So I would say It's more nuanced In that You know there's A breakdown Between rural Not rural Between different Household sizes This is I would say It's more than it's done Nationally And it's for Every jurisdiction In the county So it's for Every mental hospital area They don't get it To fight the same nuances There are Basic needs Study Does Every two years It's solely focused On housing And assuming That in order To pay The other Basic life Necessities You need The other 70% Of Your income Okay Thank you Representative I always found it Very curious That the Burlington South Burlington MSA Includes Franklin County And Grand Isle County So what is the logic Behind that You know Any of that And seriously Burlington South Burlington costs Would be much higher If you backed out The other two counties So I I totally agree With you This is A construct That OMB The Office of Management Budget Has come up with A number of years ago Before the Petropot Statistical Area Was redefined It actually Singled out Certain towns In Franklin And Grand Isle Counties That were within Easy community Distance And were Arguably Could much more Logically And plausibly Be considered Part of the Burlington South Burlington Job Market But yeah Including Richford Or you know Innesburg I can't defend I can't send And it doesn't As you point out It does Weird things to The fair market rents Because If you did Subtract out You know The really Far-flung towns Of both Grand Isle And Franklin Counties The Burlington Fair Market Rents Would probably Be Significantly Higher And Expanding on that That if We were To For Richford Innesburg Those times So that We would know What people Need to make For a wage In those Towns In order to Afford to live there Totally Agree with you And actually Not to get into You know The Wompty Side Of housing Policy We actually Saw And Pud Set For the For the Following Federal Fiscal Year They were Significantly below Market in Virtually every area Of the state Including the MSA And Agencies Had to get together And raise $70,000 To appeal that And part of it Part of the problem Is that The MSA Is just Misdefined It should not include Those towns I would be very Surprised at people At Richford Need to make 2773 To Totally agree with you Conversely How the world Would be Higher And again This is not as nuanced as You know A state-based study That The Joint Fiscal Office does Which slices And dices Different family sizes Where They're Located So And just On that first page Last thing I'll just Point to Is Being Disaffordable to somebody At 30% Of Area-mean income Which is Another standard That we use in housing Anyone below 30% Of Area-mean income Is considered extremely Low-income So That household Can afford $576 a month In Rent And again I would contrast that With the 1,165 As the statewide average That's Approximately $23,000 a year And So that translates Roughly Into That So we're talking Someone At minimum wage At current minimum wage In Vermont If they're If they're working They're Below That 30% standard And they're Considered By federal standards Extremely Low-income I'll just If we could I don't know Who's Got Had Thank you Just briefly I just Wanted to show you Page 2 In this In the Left-hand column Those in counties Alphabetically Ordered And then You can go across On the roads To see In a First column Is what the Housing wages For each Of the Individual Counties And then There's Additional Data On Income Both housing costs Every median income And how That breaks out For renters In So the Two-bedroom Housing wage at 2240 Um So Would it be To say that Two single Individuals Making 13 bucks an hour Fall comfortably Into that number? That, yeah Again, if you have Two low-wage Service sector Workers At that At that rate They would But if you're A single parent And you've got One Waiturer In the family No, no, no I understand that One unique situation Or one Defines a situation But there's a lot of Other defined situations That it is There are Okay Clearly Just wanted to Clear that And then The rest of the packet That's on your website Just Quickly Shows Where Vermont stands With respect To the housing wage These would be Other states Around the country We have The 13 Highest Housing wage Among all states So we're The 13th least Affordable state And then There's A further Page The next page Shows What Breaks down Sort of the top ten Worst jurisdictions Based on a couple Of different Criteria If you look at the One Scroll back One Mine might be In a slightly different Order That's the one Sorry So lower left-hand Corner The state Non-metropolitan areas Everything Outside of The metropolitan Statistical area Which I would Include some Very rural areas In the NSA I would say This is basically All the counties Outside of the Three Northwest counties And there We are Together With other New England states We have Basically The most Expensive rural Areas in the Country Behind Massachusetts Connecticut New Hampshire So what We're Sixth worth Worth state For rural Areas And then The other This one Shows That For renters We have the Fifth largest Gap Between What Your Renter Or even mean Renter wage Can afford And the Two bedroom housing Wage And again We're in Good company With Most of The High cost High cost area And on the last Hale I just quickly Point out These are On the left Handside Those are National Bureau Of Labor statistics Numbers They're not State numbers But It'll give you An idea Of just Some of the Typical And I think This is Pretty true for Vermont too Although the Dollar amounts Minimum wage So again These are National Umbers But it'll Give you At least I think Some idea Of the Types of Jobs That Don't pay The Housing Wage And that Are going to be Jobs Where people are Struggling to Make it So I'll Just conclude By Just pointing out That One of the ways That we fill The gap The affordability Gap Is with Public subsidies And so In order to Help And that's Always going to be Necessary But one of the Other ways That we can Help fill the gap Is by Paying people More And I think If we Raise Minimum wage Even though We would Certainly like To see it raised More And I'm Not saying You know We raised Minimum wage That we're going to Need to spend less Public dollars On Subsidies But I mean The point is Clear is that Part of what we're Doing is We are By not Paying people Enough We are Having to Subsidize More folks With things Like rental assistance And Without That rental For Our lowest paid Workers These folks are You know One step away from Missing rent And potentially Being Subject to Obligation And spiraling The Homelessness Any other questions? Very hard Seeing none Thank you Very hard Thank you I couldn't hear from you Appreciate your time And now We're looking for Virginia rent From Virginia I got this over here this Morning And all the Remotters Caucus You know everyone here I believe so Yes Okay Thank you I'm Virginia Renfrew Work with The Law Association Of adult Days And For those of you Who are not Familiar What an Adult Day is It's part of The long-term When you think Of an adult Day Think of A nursing home But the people Go home At night Time Adult days Enable People to Be at home With their Families And then At night Time And then In the day Be with Adult day Adult days Have Are required By the Dale's Standards To Medical Services Showers And as You can see On this chart They provide You know Many different things Some people arrive In an adult day At seven in the morning And they're there Till four Or five at night So they're getting Their breakfast Their Lunch In a Snack So We want you to know That The Association Supports The intent Of S23 We believe That employees Should be paid A fair And livable wage The concern That we have Is that With the reimbursement Rate Of 1640 An hour That We're not quite sure How We're going to be Able to continue To do this Run these Programs With this type Of reimbursement Rate And Adult days Depend About 75% Of Their funding comes Through Medicaid We have seen Over the last few years A much higher Acuity Of the people Who are attending Adult days So sometimes Staff needs You know You need to have Two or three people Helping one Participant So And we've In the testimony That I've submitted All the different things As the chart does As well And so What we would ask Is that You consider to Add language And We support the Standards of The DNA Brought in Jill Olson And we would ask you To consider Having some Either the Language That has been Proposed Or some type of Language To make sure That the Medicaid rates Keep up with The That's going to continue Any questions? Yes, please Everybody's alright Okay, stop Have you been to The Healthcare Committee Or the Human Services Committee Or the Appropriations Committee Discuss Lack of Medicaid Reimbursement In anticipation Of this Or in Reference To just Current Services I know I know That we feel like In general That the Services are Undercapitalized But have you Made the rounds This year? I've Had the Conversation And Senate Appropriations With the Chair And I Think that You know I did Not have this Conversation And Senate Health Of all Here But I Think that They're Aware of And House Appropriations This year Included in Their budget A 2% Increase For the Home And Community Based Providers I will say That at 1640 An hour That will Bring them up to 1680 In 100% So When we Look at You know In order to Bring Our rate And we have I haven't Gathered That But I would say In order to Meet this The problem That you have Right now Is that If you Have someone Who's been working For you For You know 3 or 4 years At $13 An hour And now Each year We're bringing People up You have to Raise them All The other They pay Between $30 To $35 An hour To have That RM So Yes Over the Last few years We've had this Conversation And Really feeling That I think That people Hear us But Not quite sure Where they're Going to Find the money And so Feeling That having This language Added S23 Will hopefully Make a difference How many Will take care Services are there? There's 14 In the state They're in every county Except for Grand Isle And who Like that Who runs them? So There's Out of the 14 13 Of them are Independent So they're Non-profits And 3 of them Are Part Springfield hospital Which isn't doing so well Rutland hospital Just 2 hospitals And then The Burlington There's 3 adult days Under the V&A And So the average salary is Well I guess it's hard to say But What is the average salary Of the lowest paid workers? Well right now It's Whatever your Random wages And are they Full-time workers? Yeah They're full-time And Many of them Are Do receive Health benefits And Vacation time Okay It's just Another You know It's just another tough balance Between The provision Of important services And The Compensation For the people To provide Those Important services It's very difficult to Live And Absolutely You know And I think that You know Certainly listening to Earhart's testimony Is that That is a huge issue And Again I think that You know For adult days Or Home health You know We would all Like to be able to pay Our You know Pay their Staff And Unlivable wage I think that You know One thing with adult days Is that So the people Who are working Right now For the adult days Are Very committed To people Who Are attending there But What they're finding Is that When someone You know Either Decides to retire Or leave You know Whatever They're hard to fill Those spots Because The pay Is low And We're competing Against Higher pay Totally understandable But I think that As our population Continues To grow older In the state That The state of Vermont Needs to really think About How we can Ensure That we Have these services To provide For our elderly Last question So You said 25% Increase in budget I'm assuming That's over time So that For the years From now That budget Just for Salaries Would represent Increase Over what They are now Is that Right away With the fact Yeah, I know For the reimbursement rate What would we be looking Yes, we would be looking For And that's One of the things That I'm doing right now Is working with the Adult days So that next year We can Go to the Propriations Committee With exactly How much We need to Have Increase To meet If this bill becomes Law But you don't have A number of What that represents Definitely And It seems To me That Our And on staff Being paid $30 an hour Would not fit into Your wage compression That you're speaking about And that's The pay level That is Substantial And I'm sure Adequate for Yeah, that's I mean That's I mean Some are paying Higher And I know These days It's been struggling And the Director herself Is a nurse And so she Her nurse Is left And she is now She's doing Running the place And being Being a nurse And are they coming in From an agency These are Attempts to an agency So they're paying Direct Okay Good Anyone else Thanks Virginia Thank you Okay And We'll be to Colin Robinson Welcome Colin I don't think You've been here In this room before This year Not this year Okay, so we'll Introduce ourselves I'm Chip Toriano I represent Hardwick Standard And Walden From Wavering Representing Wavering Fulton Huntington And Beale's Score Representative Matt Ironman Virginia Lisa Hago Berkshire Richford Franklin And Huntley I represent Marianne Blush From Swanson Representative Sheldon John Collatt From Tommy Waltz From the city Gary Howard From the city Alright Thank you all Welcome Great So for the record My name's Colin Robinson I'm the political director At Vermont NEA Thanks for Having us here today And allowing us To share some thoughts Vermont NEA Supports S23 We are union And represents 13,000 School Employees Teachers And schools Every community Across the state As a core principle We believe Every worker Whether they're unionized Or not Should be allowed To meet their Basic needs Every single day And Increasing And having a strong Minimal wage As a core value We believe Allows To address that There are just as many issues That I wanted to speak to As it relates to The bill That you're considering First of all We represent Several thousand About 3,000 School support staff These are Bus drivers Food service workers Paraeducators Custodians Maintenance Individuals And They are Not necessarily Surprisingly The lowest paid Employees In our schools But Incredibly important Work and support To our students They literally Feed them They clean up After them And they provide Critical Additional educational Supports to students Inside the classroom As well And obviously The support staff That we represent Do have The opportunity And they are Collectively bargaining With their employers About wages, Hours And working conditions Some of their contracts Some of our Members' contracts They negotiate Across the state That are Below $15 An hour Some have starting wages That are About $15 An hour And where individuals Are on the salary Schedules Depends on How long they've been Employed What their position is Etc. Etc. But one thing I did want to Highlight as it Specifically relates To this Component Of the Education Workforce Is actually a study That was Shared with This committee Last year I have Provided Ron with An electronic Copy of the study I encourage you To read it But it was Written by Professor Rebecca Givina From Rutgers University And it's had A women's work Education Voices of Vermont's educators And started a survey Of the Vermont Education Workforce And if you'll Bear with me I'd like to Read a Component of that She was talking about All educators In Vermont 87% of Paraprofessionals Are women Our data revealed That 39% Are the primary Wage earners In their household Many expressed Frustration over The widespread Misconception That Paraprofessionals Are wives Trying to pick up Extra work With the Implicit assumption That the salary Does not Need to cover The full Cost of living Fewer than One in Three Paraprofessionals Work During the summer When school is closed And over half Of these Employees 57% Work-Additional jobs Both during The school year And in the summer The reality is That Paraprofessionals Are Strung economically Yet their schools Depend on them To Support Essential Educational Needs One Paraprofessionals Spoke Of the frustration Living Complement Some of the comments From Earhart Earlier You can see this quote Specifically from A pair Educator In Chinden County That Professor Given spoke to She said It is assumed That Paraprofessionals Have a partner Or Married Essentially That there Is a Two-person Income Supporting you The lowest Low wages And that was From A pair Educator In Chinden County So this is just A snapshot from That Report And this is Just a snapshot Of Some of the lowest wage School employees That Serve In communities Across our state I also Just Point of information You may not be Aware that If you are A school Employee You're not Eligible Without the S23 Would Impact Positively School support staff And their ability To meet their own basic needs Which allows them To come prepared To schools To support their students The second point That I wanted to Lift up Is Going to be pretty obvious But As you all know Our members work every Single day To make sure students Are successful In the classroom But a student Can't be successful If they don't have food In their stomach They're concerned about The other basic needs In their life Aren't being addressed Our members work Every single day To bring in extra food To support those students To bring in Whether appropriate Close to Close those students To connect Those students And their families With social service Needs That might be able to Help students Be successful At the end of the day Yes No, I'm sorry Okay But at the end of the Day If a student Isn't able to Have those basic Needs So We believe S23 And increasing Minimum wage to $15 an hour Will help ensure That Students impacted by Poverty Are able to Better have Their families basic Needs met And students Are going to Be able to Come to school And I get The education That they serve Sorry to interrupt No, absolutely Those are my remarks Representing Students And representatives I think Just by practice But Tell me about A federal law That says That a hair Professional Cannot Receive Unemployment During summer months It's just a Specific car Vow For school Employees Feather Unemployment Law So They pay Unemployment Taxes And then Premiums That's Actually That's a great Question On federal law I know That the local Granted industry For instance Has contracts That Plan Unemployment Into their Contract Where they Expect people To take a A month off In the Wintertime Where they Do get Unemployment And that's Part of the Business plan For that industry So one Thing that I can't Remember the Exact year You all The Legislature Move forward But it was in the past Eight years We heard from Our members Who were basically Saying That they wanted To stretch Their pay Out over the calendar Year So teachers Right now Can select to Receive Their salary Over the course Of the school Year Or have it Spread out Through the summer To help them With their Family Budgeting And their Wages Were Not necessarily Able to Request that Of school districts Because then If you actually Parse out their wages It brings it Below the State minimum wage And so Our members Came in here And worked with Some of you And your predecessors To pass A lot of that Allowed for Even pay For school Employees Low-wage school Employees To opt into Receiving Over the course Of an entire Calendar year Even though That hourly Wage might Actually end up Dipping below What the State minimum wage is So they would be Able to Manage Their Family Resources More properly Throughout The entire Calendar year Representative Hango And then Byron So From a school Board standpoint During negotiations It's very difficult To balance All of the needs That a school Has When you're Crafting a budget And you're Negotiating with Teachers Or support Staff So Obviously Raising Wages Is going To raise That budget We have Many, Many people Who Pay For School taxes Through Their property Tax Paying Taxes That are going to Go up As a result of this What do we tell Our constituents Who are In that situation When they're Retired They own A decent Property And their taxes Are just going Higher and higher I appreciate the question I think there are sort of Two Answers That are Two different Components That answer I'll give you One is that We do know That low Wage Workers Spend Their money Locally So in so much As Low Wage Paraprofessionals And other School Support Staff Are more Likely to Live in the Communities in Which they Work Than A teacher A teacher Might Drive In 40 Minutes We'll be able to Spend that additional Resources in their Home Community Which we believe Hasn't Had an Economic benefit On the Education funding Side of things This is Specific to your Question But tangential To the issue at hand At Vermont NEA We've actually Been Supportive of a Proposal To move away From the Residential Eliminate the Residential Component Of our Education funding system Because we think Those with the Ability to pay Should be able to Pay their fair share Low income And middle income From honors right now Pay about two percent Of their income Towards school funding And Individuals With more Means Don't Say Pay the same Proportion of Their income Towards Making sure Our schools Are able to Support Our students Representative Hago Kind of touched on A chunk of What I was going to ask To I guess have some A little like some Question. So what percentage Of your membership Would be Impacted We did see Wage increases If this Build was to pass? A third Of our I'm sorry A quarter Of our members Are school Support staff But within that Category You have folks That are You know Dollars an hour Or more Exactly I mean there are Individuals So sitting here right now I actually can't Tell you specifically Because it is Really individual In terms of Where they're Placed on the salary schedule And we don't have A full comprehensive Set of where Every single School support Staff member Is currently On their salary schedule So that would be Like a Another question For my School Award Yeah Okay The support staff Is this a statewide Contract Or is it School district By school district School district And Of this 25% of your members How many Are currently By contract Earning less Than in other ways That's being Proposed Below 15 Dollars an hour Well that's Five years Right Well Currently none Of the contracts Have wages That are below The statement Of a wage As salary Schedules work People tend to Move up As they Go throughout the year Sitting here Right now I don't have The exact number Of okay These are the Ten contracts In the school That Have a wage That Doesn't go Above 15 Dollars an hour I can't say The salary schedules To the best Of my Knowledge All go Above 15 Dollars an hour I'm not following Okay Let me try and say it again Here's what I heard Yes Great If all of the Supports that Was already Earning above that Of a wage Why is it Sustainance For you If everyone's Already taken care Of the Earning Approach Maybe I'm Just understanding Thanks No I understand Your question Well Two things We don't know Where The salary schedule Will be At that point Some Have starting wages That are above 15 Dollars an hour Some do not So In so much Is that There are Contracts That have Starting wages For school support staff That are below 15 Dollars an hour This will Impact Now Where Specific individuals Will be On that So We do believe That increasing This will have Impacts On our members And Incorporated into Conversations About Negotiations I will also say That You know As mentioned earlier By Virginia Renfrew About Issues related To compression And that's Something that We're Aware of Right You know If you've been You know That's something that We And our members At the Local bargaining table Will have to Work out And figure out But As a core principle We believe That 15 Dollars Is a wage That everybody Should To benefit from Thank you So I heard you Speak the other day Colin About Healthcare costs And Currently Our School districts By The state Right now And our Non-teacher Are these Power Professionals And other folks That work In the school system Tell us About What their Healthcare Situation Is If you would So Just Point of Clarification There is No Statutory Language Around Not sharing For School Employees Or support Staff Among teachers There is Not a Tremendous amount Of disparity In their Local Contracts Across the state It tends to be In this 16 To 20 Percent Versus 86 To 80 Percent I'm sorry 84 To 80 Percent For schools In the state School Support Staff In some Districts Receive Access To Only Single Person Coverage Healthcare benefits Just for Themselves Some Receive Access To All Tears Of Coverage Up to And including Family Coverage Some 40 Versus Support Staff Up in Some Districts In the Northeast Kingdom Where it's closer to 95 Percent 95 Percent Picked up By the school District 5% Picked up By the Employee I think Where their Numbers Are Lower For School Support Staff Chittany East District Actually Has An Income Sensitized Premium Structure For School Support Staff So if You're in this Band You Pay this Percentage If You're in this Band You Pay this Percentage So it is All over the Map Literally Thanks And that Will not include Support Staff At that Point in Time It does Okay So teachers And Support Staff Are going to be Negotiating State Wife So they'll Be some equity Throughout the State For those Types of Situations Support Staff Receiving Benefits Just under A single Plan They had children They were Covered under a program Such as Dr. Dinosaur So healthcare costs While they seem Extreme In some cases That there's a disparity May There may not Be that big of a disparity When you look at The public benefits That Some of those Families are getting Because They are A little Lower And just to Represent Hang those Point Dr. Dinosaur is a program That they access That provides Critical Benefits to them And their families And we know That it's actually Really comprehensive And good coverage We were working on An effort a couple Years ago To try And expand Dr. Dinosaur All from Underage 26 Because we believe It is A model program Great Any other Questions For comment One more And this Actually is Your organization I don't And I Don't feel comfortable Speaking for them But Totally fair So you're gonna say Yeah Yeah It's not something You know It's not something You've talked to them About Association Okay Anyone else? Colin Thank you Thank you all Very much for taking That And right now It's Kerry Brown Executive director For Vermont Commission Welcome, Kerry Thank you very much Okay Is this your first time Here this year? Um No Oh, that's right Yes, okay So no introduction It's been a little while though It's been since the very, very beginning It was early on Well, there was snow on the ground Yeah It still is It feels like places Okay, I'm just gonna let that pass Thanks All right Thank you for having me For the record Kerry Brown Executive director Of the Vermont Commission And They've been The Vermont Commission on Women Is an independent Nonpartisan State Agency We've been around since 1964 Working on advancing Rights and opportunities For women and girls in Vermont And Economic security Has been One of our core issues From the get-go And I expect Will remain so And We have For a long time Recognized the link between Increased wages And women's Economic stability We have policy statements That go back Decades Expressing our support For legislation Policies, programs And initiatives That promote a liberal Income for remanders And While we don't Have a position On this particular bill Because that's just Not really our M.O. We have a Recently updated Statement about The minimum wage in general Which I'm going to read to you So you can see Where we're coming from Given that Women in Vermont Are currently in A more precarious Financial situation than Then In the minimum wage Any amount Would have a positive impact On many women And given that Raising women's earnings Would have an additional Positive impact On Vermont And its economy The Vermont Commission On women Supports efforts To increase the minimum wage As one strategy For promoting A liberal income For remanders So that's Just kind of Where we're coming from And I will tell you As well That In coming to this Statement And then Discussing this issue Among the Effectives we have On the Vermont Commission On women Many, many Issues were raised And there is A great recognition Of the complexity Of this issue That doesn't Assume from across In that simple Policy statement And I know That you are Wrestling with many Of those complex Questions But I just have To say That we keep them In the front Of our mind As well And I'll talk A little bit About that As I go on So I just want To tell you That women's Economic status And the minimum wage So women's Economic situation In Vermont Is somewhat precarious The median Annual wage For all women In Vermont Looking at Full and part-time Workers Is just 1503 An hour So that's Everybody 43% Of women Who are working Full-time In Vermont Aren't making Enough money To cover Their basic needs And if we look At single mothers With one child In Vermont 86% Of them Don't make enough To cover Their basic needs And for single mothers With two or more Children 92% Of them Don't make enough So practically All of them And it's Worth noting That in all These categories The wage required To meet Those basic needs Is higher than $15 an hour And this is Based on What the office Comes out with. So raising The minimum wage Would have A proportionately Positive impact On women in Vermont. More women Than men Are working In minimum wage jobs. Nationally Women make up About two-thirds Of all Minimum wage And tipped Wage workers. Wages rise More for women Than for men When the minimum Wage goes up. In states That raised Their minimum wage In 2015 Women in the lowest Income brackets Saw their wages Rise 5.2% In states That had A legislative Increase That you're Considering Compared To 4.7% For men And so All those low Wage workers Went up But women Saw an even Greater benefit It was not Equal For minimum wage A higher Minimum wage Is linked To smaller Pay gaps Or gender Wage gaps States with a minimum Wage at Or higher Than 8.25 An hour Have a wage gap About 41% Smaller Than those Whose minimum Wages are At 7.25 An hour. Raising The minimum wage Would particularly Help women Of color Who face Larger Wage gaps Than white women And who are Even more likely To earn The minimum wage In Vermont Or women Compared to 13% Of men This That number Is a little bit Old, let me say That's a slightly Outdated number Because I Think you may be Wondering how You'd be making less Than 10 An hour. Of course we Do have people Making less Than minimum wage But that's From a couple Of years ago That we Do that Because So that is 17% Of women Are making 13 Theta Those five years Which is the most Recent that we Had when we did this And If we include Part-time workers So that was just Full-time Part-time workers It's 28% Of all women In Vermont 27% Of white women 33% Of women Of color So those gaps Are higher For women Of color And women In Vermont Are over twice Of women Are working Part-time Compared to I think 11% Of men Or 11.5% Of men Part-time work is Much more likely to Pay minimum wage Nationally Part-time workers Are paid minimum wage And wait 3.5 times That Of full-time workers So raising Women's earnings By whatever Method Would have a positive Impact on Vermont And its economy Closing the wage gap Would reduce the poverty To equivalent To 3.3% Of the state's GDP Social security Draws Are based on Earning Raising the minimum wage Would lead to Vermont workers Receiving more benefits And retirement And would help to Reduce future gender Disparities And alleviate Financial insecurity For Vermont seniors Which is pretty Significant Currently Vermont women Currently Get about Half in Social security That Vermont men do And that is The rate of earnings Nationally Among workers Earning less Than 12.16 An hour Every $1 In hourly wages Reduces the likelihood Of receiving Means tested Public assistance By 3.1% So that means When that Hourly wages Go up Public assistance Is going down And the rate Of women Receiving public support Is twice That Of men In Vermont So that's a lot About some things That you feel It's important for you To consider Simultaneously As you're raising This wage Of course You've talked A lot about Benefits Cliffs I'm sure And that is A huge concern For The commission On women So I'm sure You've talked About the Minimal wage Analysis That the Joint Fiscal Office Did in 2014 That was The three primary Program benefit Reductions Would be from My child care Financial assistance Program Three squares Vermont And the renters Rebate And single mothers Are Overwhelmingly Disproportionally And seriously Affected By these Benefits Cliffs It's really That's who's Really feeling it The people They see their Income Go up Their wages Go up Considering ways To To address that At the same time As you're thinking About raising the wage Is I think Absolutely critical We're also Pretty concerned About childcare Providers Who are mostly Women And they May find themselves In a difficult situation Needing to significantly Increase the pay To their workers Without accompanying Increases in the Revenues Available to those Higher wages This is A system Of who you're Serving Who your customers Are And where The revenue Is coming from And so If the revenue Coming from Parents Is maxed out Which I think A lot of research Shows us That it is Then revenue Has to come From somewhere else In order to Increase the wages That are Being spent And so that I know that Is something That you're Considering As you're Coming from the Clients who are being Served But coming through Some state Or federal funding That's something There are pressures That will be put on The revenue Coming from clients That may not Be realistic I also Just wanted to Touch on A tipped Minimum wage A lower tipped Minimum wage Also has a Disproportionate impact On women In states that Require employers To pay Regular Minimum wage Before tips Free rates For women Who work As tip workers Are lower Wage gaps For those women Are smaller And overall Wage gaps For women In those states Are smaller So It's a lot Of facts And figures And Thanks for Bearing with me On that Any questions? President Black We've been Learning about Other states That have One of The concerns In the research Is the wage Is Decreased More than Hours It's increased Retention on that Have you seen Those studies On the gender Breakdown? And is that Again Disportionate For women Or I have not Seen Those studies Done With the gender Breakdown I think That would be Pretty interesting To look at You should I mean Ron has it It's the Your freshest pregnancy I've missed it A few refreshments If you were fresh If you were fresh Don't carry my ball Thank you Was that a fangirl? I think we've got The child care bill That we passed A couple of weeks ago Does that begin To address Some of your cases? I think it does begin To address it And I think Yeah, I do Any other questions? Good Thank you, Kerry Thank you very much Thanks Hey And we have Wes Hamilton Co-owner of Three-Penny Cabinet And Matt Taco Both Welcome, Wes Thank you I really appreciate The opportunity You've never been Here before Maybe we should Introduce ourselves Or Where you listen I have You don't Want to go All the way Back around But I'm Tom Steves from Waterbury And Matt Byron We're gents We know each other For the boys and gals We're from Burnard We'll be the beginning Of the year Oh, that's the best John Cash He's helped For a long time Tommy Waltz From New York City Me and Harry Howard From Rutland City Okay Welcome Thank you I Lived for about Four or five years In Walden And I Missed my time up there Oh, yeah You look familiar So My name is Wes Hamilton I'm the Managing partner For a number Of restaurants Three penny Taproom Here in Montpelier Nat Taco We have Three locations At present We're Hardly Expand We also run a Catering company That's Probably one of The busier Catering companies In the state I think Generally There's 50 to 60 People employed Across all the Companies Full time Or year round And then With the catering company There's another dozen or two Seasonal hires That we make And I Apologize I had intended To do some good Solid research With written testimony And As you can imagine I'm a little bit busy On top of Raising A nine year old So I didn't write anything But I more or less Like To come in And As a business owner Say that I support Raising a minimum wage And I know When These kinds of things Come up And get Considered The chamber likes To come in And various Business associations And Groups Like to Make sure you know That You know That everybody will be Unemployed And we won't Have any more Nice things And it's just My perspective Strongly That's not the case I think We In all of our Restaurants Work very Very hard To pay Not only A minimum Wage But A livable Age And You know I was just In fact What I'm going to talk about Was thinking about That 13 Whatever it is Minimum wage Or the Livable wage That You have Studies That show And I really Greatly appreciated That I'm here In the same day As the gentleman Who was speaking About housing costs Because just Really quickly In my head I ran through You know I mean I know At least in the That's just A thousand dollars A month And so Really quickly You know $15 an hour Isn't really getting You to that 30% Of your Rental income And so I speak specifically To say that I'm in favor Of supporting minimum wage And Having the minimum wage To be a livable wage I In theory I'm here To support this bill I think $15 an hour In five years Is pretty disappointing And I support it In theory Because it's better Than what we have I don't support The idea That we have to wait And One of my Reasonings Because The first pushback That I Normally get to hear Is Well You know That's great As a business owner You can choose To pay Higher wages And Very Regular My experience Is When our costs Are Out of line With our competitions costs We are then At a competitive disadvantage And so I can Pay everybody $15 to $20 an hour And then You're going to see That reflected In the price Of a burger Or a taco And then You're probably Going to choose To go around The corner To somebody else Who's paying For the burger For a lot less money And So That is Very strongly That This Statehouse Is the place To Ensure that everybody Can live a dignified life Which For me Is what it's really Comes down to To be able To forward your bills To not have to Work 70 Or 80 hours In order To get by I think that Is Our But I think we're just Morally required As decent people And I know that There's I greatly appreciate That there's a lot of nuances The benefits Cliff You know The I used to Many years ago Work in Childcare I know It's not a Straightforward Thing I know it's a lot For you all To consider And there's Complicating factors I find My Just My pushback is If People are Going to Not be able to Live a dignified life Because That is how our system Works I think that's A bad system And I Think it's just Our Our duty As Good neighbors And conscience Citizens To behave That way And When Things happen Such as Everybody You know That floor Does raise For everybody I think Really Exciting things Can happen I testified More or less About this It's My same line Of reasoning For the Sick days bill Once that Past You know We chose At our restaurants Not to treat that As sick days We said You have this time Off We don't really care Why We're not going to ask You for Requirements of the law For three days To then have that Be the starting place And then offer In fact More time off For More senior staff And I greatly appreciate That we were able To do that And we were able to In part do that Because All the competing Restaurants And businesses And bars around us Were then Living with that Same cost Of providing that benefit And I just Think wages Are going to look The exact same way And Maybe that's all I have to say So To most of your staff In front of the house Make enough With tips Recorded tips To Support a $15 minimum wage Or You know What it is now I don't know What it tends to be So there's A little bit of difference Is Across Our different Restaurants But I believe Yes The answer is yes You know I very Intentionally Don't Get involved With their tip Reporting Their business We do pay Even our Tip staff Above the Tip minimum We do not Pay them As far as their Wage The minimum wage What we Really found with That is They do well enough With tips To make A livable And to make the Livable wage And There is I don't know If you've noticed A tremendous growth Of restaurants And service industry Certainly here In Central Vermont I think it seems It's true In Chippin County Maybe all over the state And then That has made Kitchen staff Particularly And skilled kitchen Staff Or trying Higher And one of our Strategies there Is to offer The best wages We possibly can And You know Unfortunately Just kind of With how The industry Standably operates That That Puts us at Leaning on Front-of-house Staff To make their Money And tips More so I think Just about Tip staff aside You know In the kitchens The vast majority Of our staff Is making $15 or more And where we see That exception You know Is usually In dishwashers And I think Similarly to The gentleman from the NEA Like a school Can't operate Without the Cafeteria staff You know The restaurant Doesn't really Work that well Without dishwashers And those people As well Have to Then have a second job Where they're working Full-time as well You know Very unfortunately No stranger to Dishwashing staff Who Comes on to shift After working Some other job Or You know A vice person You know I can't work Saturdays Because That's what I'm working over here And As I said We do our Very, very best to Not put Our employees In that I can only You know It's only so much I can do When I'm competing against Somebody else Who can charge Three or four Five dollars less For a burrito Than I do Interestingly enough For our Catering business Which is primarily In the summer A huge portion Of the Staff that we bring in For that Our teachers And work in the At work In home healthcare Just Speak a little bit To some of the issues That The previous gentleman Was talking about Any of that Right So The We've had witnesses Who've come in here And They've They've presented a case I guess A fair way to say this They presented a case That if The worker has a gap In their earnings That the worker Has responsibility To get a work harder Or To increase their skills And become more competitive In The employment marketplace And so I'm curious As a business owner If businesses Have that same responsibility Because we've had a lot of Representative business Organizations And businesses come in And say how difficult It would be for them And I haven't heard As much of a responsibility Assigned to them You know That says Well then you Should work a little harder You should You should diversify your business And build your skills The solution seems to always Kind of go back to It's the worker's problem To take on another job Or to do X, Y, or Z So I'm just curious As a business owner You know What would your message be To a business Who says Well we can't We can't afford this I mean I think My or anybody else's Right to own a business It's got to be secondary To any of our neighbors Right to survive And live a dignified life And I end up this Race to the bottom Competition of You know This person is Not getting by Because they're not working Hard enough With this that The other thing I mean I think that That just doesn't make sense To me I think I think State-wide Is our job As community members And you know Maybe in this room We tend to be The more successful More comfortable For the community I think If our focus isn't Ensuring the quality of life For People who are In the CISU And I'm like A ladder below us And I just Don't know what our job is I guess That the The reverse therapy Comes You know My job Then becomes To just make As much for myself And you know Too bad for those Who can't get by And I just I can personally Justify that kind of I mean I don't know If that really answers Your question Because to me It's I just don't I don't wish As a business owner And frankly As a successful Business owner I don't I don't think business is Beyond I don't really think That's why we're here And I don't think I think it's a means To an end Representative I appreciate Your more holistic Approach To This issue And Having heard about The housing portion How does that affect you When we talk about Expense to business If you can't find People who are Local What does that I mean How does that figure in As an expense to you If If I have to drive 25 miles To wash your dishes For instance Do you find that your Staff has to Live farther And farther away From where your Restaurants are I mean Haven't Pardon me Haven't really Seen that so much One of our experiences In paying Generally Better wages Livable wages Is Our Staff retention Is Pretty fantastic And so we Don't find ourselves Higher very often Perhaps Tellingly Where we have the My far Is Dishwashing staff And There Is Got to be No shortage of Times When A dishwasher Is A no-call No show And Very often They'll come back The next day Or whenever They're Supposed to work Next And say You know I miss the bus I'm sorry You know The issues Of But Otherwise You know Short be Retaining staff When they're making Livable wages It's not been an issue But Where we have seen Turnover Is Where we've fallen short On paying Livable Representative Byron Next question So We've known each other For a long time We're both Restaurant Industry People And Probably Didn't have Applied A lot of the same Philosophies That you have For Employee Retention Converted Our You know What's the State mandated Seat time Policy to Five days Converted At the CEO Just like You did that A long time ago And Also You know Paying Well above the Art for Not only what The statement Is also You're paying A premium Above What the standard Is For your Ethereum Right So How do you see that Impacting Your Need or Possible need To The escalate prices You know Pushing up the cost Of doing business As the Whole sort of System And Like sort of A reflection You know People are talking About buying power I guess With that With that So like Do you see The Dishwasher Or the $13 or $14 On our way Going out To more Hyper-loan-wise More Restaurants Or buying A $20 Pair Of Giant house Socks As opposed to Maybe Shopping More For I think I do Which I guess isn't Something I touched on But Is Certainly Something that I believe And I think That there's Good data To prove And somebody Mentioned Before About What Lower-age People do Which is Spending money Locally And I think That You know I get the They're going to a restaurant More like You know Local eatery That has a local focus Has a higher price Right So Sure they're going to keep the money Circulating momentarily In a hyper-local economy But it's not going to stay there Because it's going to go out Because they're Buying They might be buying more clothes At Walmart But they're having to drop The $20 On the way Yeah So I guess What's the question I don't know No, no, no Just sort of like As you were talking about That application Do you I mean Do you see that money Where it was staying though I guess it was my first question Yeah, I mean I do I think If The clerk Of the local bookstore Or one of my dishwashers Has more money in their pocket They're more of a queen to Go out to the local stores And go shopping I mean I think one of those That notion that you just said of You know If somebody goes to McDonald's Or Walmart or whatever And how that money doesn't Actually stay very local Well In part that's because We're subsidizing those Employers We're making plenty of money Oh sure And so if Rather than Hey, Wes It's your responsibility To raise wages If you feel morally inclined To do that If every day Wages are raised Then You know that is Money in the pocket of People who are working With those national chains And you know what I think I think it stays locally When we attack it on the state Wide level That makes any sense No I got what you're saying But then he also just said Everybody's wages are raised But not everybody's wages are raised You know if you see that Bottom tier going up And even aside from the wage And the impression of the experience In the business of cars Where we're having a conversation Of people between the like 10, 78, 17, $17 average So I'm sending people Outside of that bubble And you already have a Struggling mid-term Between middle class That will see cost of business And services go up Not even in theory I mean pretty much It's what is going to happen In the type market industries And like fixing conceders Like do you see there Being a potential Impact on buying power To the middle class I mean I guess I would assume so But I mean I'm sure Either people have spoken Or will speak Who are economists Who have Are paid for their day job To study the impacts of wages I mean I think You probably haven't seen I know I've seen The studies that show You know what The success that has happened In the states and the cities They're at medical age I think those studies Make sense and they kind of confirm My gut instinct Where I feel more impetus Which is that we Raising the bottom Raising the floor for everybody Getting everybody to where The floor is still A reasonable existence I just instinctually believe That that makes sense And it works And so exactly how that affects The spending power Of the middle class Or anything else I can't necessarily speak To that other than Like I said earlier It just seems to be The right thing to do To take care of The money in the pocket Of the people At the bottom And how that plays out I mean Fred There's all these things The benefits clip There's a million different Things that happen Once you do that And that is complicated And that will take a lot of Really thoughtful, careful work And I appreciate that you're all Doing that work But I can't necessarily speak to All that That's fair What was it that had you go? I often find myself sitting here Thinking and being people Who live in communities That something like this Is even possible to talk about If you were to come to Northern Vermont To a community like Enosburg or Richford We don't really have Well, take Enosburg out of That equation, Richford We don't really have any businesses We don't really have any places For people to work We don't really have places For people to spend their money So the thought of raising The minimum wage Makes me wonder Why? For my constituents I mean there are people that If they are working in a convenience store And they're going to get Minimum wage They're probably going to Drive a half an hour And spend the money Longer Because We don't have any Businesses So I really I do admire What you're doing And I'm really Envious of the people Who live in Central Vermont And Chapman County Because I think you have Some great opportunities Here And keep up what you're doing And anyone else Any other questions? Thank you Wes, thank you Thanks very much I appreciate it So the bill I'm here to talk about Very briefly with you Is H-394 Which is the Disposition That remains So the Senate Saw the bill And they thought That this committee Did fantastic work The only thing That they wanted to change Is they wanted it to take effect Sooner So they changed The effective date From July 1st On passage On passage And how is it? Really loud And so This is on The calendar For the day That's right It's for action today And so If we approve Of this change Which I'm assuming We will We don't need to Hold the bill We don't need to bring the bill back Unless for some other reason That I would Preempt anybody about saying That would be bizarre and strange But So if we vote on this bill Then And support it So when it comes up On the floor of the house You may not be the right person to ask But I'm assuming That when it comes up On the house That there will be a quick report And then there's a vote I think that that's how it would go But again I'd always defer questions to the clerk Yeah And this is coming back to us From the Senate government office Yeah, it's coming back From the Senate government office Okay So they They heard from Most of the same witnesses you did Similar testimony And strong support all the way around So Like I said Do you have a vote going? I think it was 5-0 Okay So yeah I think there was universal support there And there's 30-year-old on the floor Yes I think That's passed the 40 unanimously as well So 40 unanimously Yeah I can't remember what the exact count was I can get that to you though Before the floor Yep There was a voice vote Oh Have you got the journal up? No I track all those things Okay So Third reading was a voice vote in the Senate Yeah I don't know if it's unanimous Yeah, second reading may have had a roll call But No, that's a voice vote That was a voice vote too Great Yeah So there you go I think there's broad support Yeah And just to be First bill to the governor Yeah Second Second Oh, you got another one on that one No, not us But He said yeah Oh, no, I meant the first bill from this Yeah To the governor Yeah I hope I didn't notice it either Yes You should look at it Did they do a public signing of it? Yeah Right I mean, you'll get an invitation We'll probably get one Yeah, okay Committee, what's your pleasure? Sounds great Sounds great The motion will be The motion will be that we concur With Senate proposal of amendment So move Second Any further conversations? 19 Perfect First may commence the call to roll Representative Wallace Yes Here, Representative Wallace Here Representative Gamash Yes What? Representative Triana Yes Representative Howard votes yes Representative Milwaukee Yes Representative Sack Yes Representative Byron Yes Representative Hango Yes Representative Stevens And Yeah, let's keep that open for a minute Okay I can text Emily We'll do text Emily and tell her that we're about to take up Indigenous and then we need her vote on 394 All right, thank you, Daniel Thank you for your time Yeah, thank you Come on All right, we are going to move on to age 68 Right Before we talk about the full bill or entertain a vote on the full bill Representative Gamash had an amendment that she wanted to present for the bill And so, Michael, can you join us and walk us through what those changes to the bill are? Good morning, Mr. Chairman Michael Scherrick, Legislative Council Before I do that, if I may for just a moment answer a question of Representative Gokakis that's pertinent to all of you and that was my comments yesterday versus the legal holidays versus observed holidays and I was thinking again about that section in Title VIII and as I thought it through Representative Gamash's amendment aside for just a moment the main bill itself, the Title VIII provision should stay as it is because the second Monday of October regardless of whether it's ultimately called Indigenous People's Day or Columbus Day is still a federal bank holiday and the business days correspond with both the federal holidays and the state holidays and it would still be a legal holiday in Vermont because legal holidays are broader than just the days that state employees have off If you ended up with Representative Gamash's amendment and this is my intro into that then you would probably want to take another look at both provisions because the Columbus Day would stay Columbus Day and we'd have to slightly change the way the Title VIII provision is and for that matter, it's up to our provision and the additional day in February Representative Gamash is proposing we're not going to Title VIII because it wouldn't be a business day holiday the way the second Monday in October is going to be regardless of what it's called with that being said I'm still having trouble so before we get to the Marianas and the Senate bill there's two times that all of these legal holidays are listed on page two of that bill and then they're listed again on page four of the bill correct so those are legal holidays and they'd still be legal holidays but when you talk about observed holidays all of these in this current bill are legal holidays correct aside from Representative Gamash I ended for the sake of our conversation observed holidays are not in this bill right now correct Senate bill those are other things that are named it's Arbor Day, P-O-W-M-I-A Day Juneteenth I'm not clear that these are all legal holidays right but the point that I was making and have been making through the winter into the spring is that a legal holiday is not necessarily a state employee's day that's where I've been trying but the observed days are still in other categories I mentioned the Arbor Days etc okay with that being said I'm now Mr. Chair going to proceed Representative Gamash's amendment thank you for your patience do we have it? you shouldn't have it on the electronic screen you might have to read personally do you have it at the control of the electronic screen? yes oh there okay just came up thank you I am going to do this if I may one by one the findings the first find here we go the first finding and I'm comparing this against the Senate bill the first finding is exactly the same Indigenous People's Day was originally proposed in 1977 by a delegation of Native American I'm looking at both places by a delegation of Native Nations to the International Conference on Discrimination against Indigenous populations in the Americas saying no change number two is different starting from number two we have a different set of findings the General Assembly recognises and values the historic, cultural, contemporary significance of the Indigenous peoples of their lands that later became known as the Americas which include Vermont then Vermont was then there's a new number three number actually number two for Representative Gamash is the same as number three in S68 number three for Representative Gamash is the same as number four in S68 Vermont was founded and built upon lands whose original inhabitants for the Abinacian people and honors them and their ancestors it's verbatim down to the last word number five in Representative excuse me number four in Representative Gamash's amendment matches number five in the bill the establishment of this holiday and I'm being careful to make sure that they remain the establishment of this holiday will in the cultural development of Vermont's recognised tribes will aid in the culture development of Vermont's recognised tribes while enabling all Indigenous peoples in Vermont and elsewhere to move forward and formulate positive outcomes from the history of colonisation that's the same number five number five in Representative Gamash is new in Indigenous Peoples Day we provide a special opportunity for elementary and secondary school students to focus on the history of the Abinacian people in Vermont and to engage in frank discussions about the interactions of the early European explorers and settlers in North America including Christopher Columbus with the Indigenous population so again number two from S68 is now gone all the other ones are here minus number two and number five Representative Gamash is new and what was number two in the original one number two in the original one which you do not have on your video screen right now many cities and towns in the United States have recognised Columbus Day as Indigenous Peoples Day to highlight, celebrate and educate others about Indigenous heritage and resiliency and given the fact that Representative Gamash's amendment would have a different day that becomes an irrelevant finding so we now look here and at section two for Representative Gamash the numberings a little bit different than the original bill but Indigenous Peoples Day would be the first Monday in February and why is that? and that is because that's what Representative Gamash requested and that's for her to explain okay can I at this point? let's let Michael walk through it and then come back it creates that the first and that's a new number three Columbus Day is the same second Monday in October and also differently from the other bill because this day is not this is where you have a difference I did not put this in the Title VIII section I simply recodified Title VIII the way S68 recodified Title VIII excuse me, the way the technical corrections bill recodifies Title VIII for wording and technical purposes because this holiday would not be a banking business day off it's not a federal holiday it's just going to be in this case though it's on the observed list it's going to be closer to what an observed day is it's on the legal list but it'll be but for purposes of Title VIII it would be on this on this though on page two it says it's a legal holiday correct we're giving it the status of a legal holiday but we're not giving it as a number one of course that means that does not mean again it would be a state employee's day off be really clear about that number two is I didn't put it in the Title VIII because it's not a banking day business day not counting for banking business purposes because it's not it's not in the same I didn't put it in because Columbus Day has been the 12th of October has been the banking business day off I mean the second Monday in October I'm sorry and that would remain the same so this effectively is an observed day being given listing status is a legal holiday it's blurring the lines a little bit but that's what I did because none of the other observed days are legal holidays but I wasn't none of the other observed days were listed in Title VIII and they're not legal holidays but I gave it legal at least for this draft I gave it legal holiday status in Title I I did not list it and I could certainly do so if this amendment were to pass I didn't list it in Title VIII because the second Monday I'm sorry I'm dating myself the second Monday in October would still be legal holiday not only would still be Columbus Day but it would be a closed business banking day and I didn't add that to the list I certainly could have done so but I didn't and if that were the decision of the committee I couldn't go back should this amendment pass I could add it the same way Bannington Battle Day for example is listed here now and town meeting day is listed here now it would be easy enough for me to change that should you decide to proceed with the amendment to keep it parallel representative Howard it's Columbus Day the way it is now celebrated is that a flex day for a steady point no it's as I explained yesterday Columbus Day is an irrelevant day in terms of state employees back around 2001-2002 when Kathy Hoyt was secretary of the administration very late informed with Governor Dean's administration it was an agreement reached between the VSEA leadership of the time and the governor's office which basically meant Governor Dean and Kathy Hoyt that the flex status this day would disappear and in exchange for giving up that flex day Martin Luther King Day would become a full fledged state holiday when all state employees are then obviously emergency public safety officials would have the day off thank you so yes as I said I could add in if you decide to so proceed that into the title Morian did you want to yeah I wanted to explain how I came to February as designating that day February is February is an observance of Black History Month and at the same time it's also American History Month and I thought inserting the Indigenous People's Day in that same time frame because it would not be an observed holiday in the sense of schools being closed or anything like that it fits right in with history because it's part of history and so it would be an opportunity within that month because you also do have observance of Columbus Day that it's it's a natural fit and it would certainly lay the foundation for an in-depth historical learning of the negative history that has been ascribed to Columbus which I through my schooling years I did not learn so I think if there's documented where there is documented evidence of Columbus's actions within his first coming to these lands that we know as the Americas that should be part of that should be part of the history as well because I truthfully have not looked at a curriculum over the past years of what is taught about Columbus so I was only to talk the good things so there are not such good things I have been apprised of so I think it's good to cover all of that but do it in an integrated way and so for me that makes the most sense to pick that particular month because it incorporates expands on the history of Columbus of our American history and it also because it's an observance of indigenous peoples it also touches on minority groups in this country as well so it could be a really integrative approach in curriculum and it would be preserving the recognition of Columbus's accomplishments as well as adding to it the not so great things that his conquering of the land resulted so I'm really hoping that this is a balance I was looking for a balance because Columbus Day is a federal holiday it's still recognized on the federal level so it's preserving and expanding but it's also expanding in what I would hope would be a very educational way and so that's why I brought this amendment brought forward then I hope you will consider it and hopefully it will pass I mean yeah I was when we first took this up I was sort of advocating changing the name of Columbus Day to something more inclusive so and I was told we didn't have time to do that and that was a whole different ballgame but I'm kind of interested in this I I hadn't seen this before so just looking at it I think it would help more accurately represent what's happened in history and hopefully give people more of a chance to be better educated about what's really happened before we actually erased the entire experience of Columbus so I guess I'm wondering how it would work that schools would actually take up the issue of in elementary schools to focus on history of the native people and some of the not so great things about Columbus do we have any idea how that might work the only way that I would know of would be through curriculum development as far as I know I would like to think that we still teach our students about the presidents and the different historical figures good or bad I should say good and bad to me this would be an expansion of the curriculum in such a way as to integrate all of this so that it could be taken up not as individual subjects but more as like a three prong approach let's say to that whole the whole issue so that's that's my intent and I think that it's a fair way of being able to bring forth additional history and I am concerned we have been over the past few years there's been a trend nationwide to displace the figures in history to literally tear them down because we don't like what they represent or things they have done and I think that that is a very I don't agree with that I think our history is our history whether we like our history or aspects of it or we don't it's still part of who we are and it needs to be it's not good it's not good for any nation to wipe out or try to diminish any part of its history because that's how history repeats itself we need to look at our history and the things that we think were we wouldn't want to repeat that should be still in the forefront so that we learn about it and we learn and discuss why it was negative why it was wrong everything has a context things that are done in one part of development of a country's history is different than the values change the norms change things just change nothing remains the same and so part of my distress about what's happening to our nation's history is that things are not looked in context of what was happening in the country at that particular time which is not to say that we should approve and say oh well that was a good thing, no it's more of if you can understand the context then you can understand why it happened that's the lesson of the why so that it will not be we can do our best to not allow it to be reproduced in some other part of history, I mean that's how you come to the more you understand the greater the potential you have to reduce certainly things like racism and all those we have to learn from our history well you know idealistically I totally agree I mean I think that that's idealistic I think that history does repeat itself when we find that in war and in racism human nature is what human nature is so I don't disagree, I think idealistically that was certainly always my hope but we can only get there through education well my question then is how does this translate into making sure that this has taken up in classrooms around the state on this particular day that's my question whether or not this amendment will get that done to a curriculum right but there is no provision for curriculum in this I meant that's what I'm saying okay, I'm sorry representative Wallace then Hancock well I'm going to sound like I'm arguing in two different directions but once we have a model for this and before it became a legal holiday schools were using that as a time to look at the 60s they were playing the I Have a Dream speech and just getting into the summer rice movement so there is a lot for doing that kind of thing it's up to the schools to do on the other hand I don't like moving into February I would rather we keep the day on October 12th because what is key here is this sudden impact with the Europeans showing up in a brand new continent and in some respects pretending there was nobody there or taking advantage they certainly weren't aware of the people there but in history we kind of heard like we didn't hear what the indigenous people's impact were and all of this and we didn't hear that the Europeans brought smallpox and measles and you know it was a massive die off of all the indigenous peoples here and some were enslaved we didn't hear all that and so I think it's very important we still tie it to that here's the arrival of the Europeans and what an enormous impact that had on both Europe and the Americans and of course where we are now and so I would argue for keeping it on October so I would say an answer to your comment that Independence Day is July 4th we teach our children though about Independence Day and Declaration of Independence during the school year and not on July 4th so it was an obsession with July 4th well I understand that I mean I think not so Columbus Day is a federal day so it kind of has to stay where it is at least I think I guess a state snow just a state is under no obligation to observe a federal holiday as a state holiday that's the decision of the state it's completely a decision of the state largely that you correspond but there isn't any statutory mandate that the states have to observe federal holidays so yeah I represent the Collector I'll get the ball on that oh sorry the Juniors I'll start it right I was going to say a little bit more about Representative Walsh's first statement because he pretty much spoke for me when you said that we have a model for this and in corporate I didn't think about putting it in a different month but if we're going to put it in any month that's a good month to put it in because it is a history month and I absolutely have seen in the school system how by designating a holiday or a month or colleagues making a proclamation even excuse me that the schools take up this subject and use it to their benefit because education today isn't about learning out of books it's about practical education so a student is going to say why do we have this day so that will evolve into a whole project for that student to research why we have this day and the pros and cons of it because that's what proficiency based learning is all about that's what personal learning plans are all about so I think this would be a great opportunity for students to learn about this that's all I'm going to say about it John while it is a federal holiday Hawaii doesn't have it at all it has its own boundaries and Alaska never had it but in two years ago Alaska did create an indigenous people's state but it never recognized the federal holiday and then our state and now twice Governor Scott has some proclamations for being called indigenous people say I'm Columbus so we have that tradition other states, Oregon, Minnesota, Iowa North Carolina have done the same last week Mexico's legislature and the governor signed it changed Columbus to be called indigenous people's state so there is a movement it's in the it's in the legislatures of Maine New Hampshire, Kansas they're all looking at it right now so I think there is now and there's a movement to really really investigate this and I don't think it's embracing history I think it's completing history in this change so I I think when you replace one thing for another and it's a trend, you're right and to me I don't see that as a good trend because I don't think replacing one thing for another is the route to go I think expanding on what is and in in broadening and incorporating more because you're not see if you replace one thing for another you minimize what you are not you don't minimize what you are replacement you are minimizing what you are replacing and so if the object is to bring things forward and to have a more in-depth dispersing and looking into and doing a deep dig I think it lends itself more if you retain it but in the way you and I learned Columbus Day as you said a little earlier the Native American story was erased from that which was not right which is why we are doing one of the reasons that we are doing Indigenous People's Day we're writing a wrong and so I don't want to write a wrong at the expense of creating what I perceive as another wrong I think we're creating but I think it's rightfully placed on Columbus Day Representative Byron in the design in this conversation between the separation of the dates and the discussion of a racing history not a racing history, updating history I made it no secret that I view this as a necessary updating of history but in updating history I consider myself when I was making the career decision of my life when I was young it was to do the study of history or food but I still consider myself an amateur history nerd so in the conversation of a racing to replacing to updating if we did move forward with the original bill I don't see how we could teach anything about the Indigenous population of this country without the conversation of Columbus I mean, be it possible that's such a massive impact it's such a major part of it that I don't see a possible way of accurately depicting history without the conversation of Columbus being a major part of it that's why I would say it's completing this not a racing history but the fact that saying that the Columbus narrative the Columbus conversation would be removed from that conversation I don't see how that could possibly be in place from just a historical conversation her presence a lot so I'm not going to talk about the merits one way or the other of the idea I guess what I just want to express and I'm new to this process and to this building I'm expressing a little frustration because I feel like we've already had the discussion and I don't know if this is customary of the process or not but I feel like this is the second time actually that we've had a discussion that took us to a certain point and then at the point at which we're going to vote we're sort of thrown back into having like re-litigating the discussion that was already had not the specifics but generally we're sort of re-litigating something that was already kind of moved on and I'm just so I'm very frustrated by that um Representative Hango I'm going to share Representative Zod's frustration because when we first talked about this I brought up doing something different than the original bill and I was told that we didn't have time to do that and we all moved on so apparently there is time to discuss changing the original bill and being naive and new I don't know these things so I'm with you I hear your frustration and I guess we just need to move on and make our decision I'll speak to that just a little bit I mean you're both right we made a choice to we were ready to pass out a bill and we chose to hold it because the senate was voting on the same bill and um in consideration of while the bill was roughly the same there were changes in it and because we're taking up the senate bill um just from an overall thematic standpoint once we start work on the senate bill we have a responsibility to at least hear out and relitigate to a degree on the bill itself even though it is repetition um we're not shoving this down people's throats in this committee or the floor of the house um we're we're just reopening the conversation on this based on the changes that legislative council provided and when an opportunity was for an amendment to be offered representative gommach took it that's her right and so the question before us um I do want to vote on this bill today whether we vote on it before lunch or after lunch is up to us to a degree um I'm leaning towards after lunch at this point but maybe we'll get there in 15 minutes um the question that I have for process is that we have before us um we have before us the senate bill which we have yet to vote on um traditionally we can make changes um as suggested by representative gommach it wouldn't be a vote it would be a hand vote basically um the reason for that is that we haven't we're not we wouldn't be amending an official bill or we wouldn't we wouldn't be amending our take on that official bill as if we voted it out and then the amendment came forward tomorrow um so the first for the process for the process we would take a hand vote this would also um allow representative gommach the opportunity to offer this on the floor if she so chose at which point we would take um and if she did then we would take a voice vote on that bill um on that amendment um because right now we would either be changing it of our own volition by consensus within the committee or by by hand vote um prior to voting it out so that's the process in front of us I mean I'm kind of willing to just sit with it till after lunch um and try to fit it in actually probably fit this in after and I don't know what you're I don't know what your um availability is after lunch this afternoon I'm writing as you can well imagine but I don't have any other testifying obligations until tomorrow morning so I am totally flexible right through the afternoon so if we could um have you 15 minutes after the floor prior to our we have a walk through um on S83 um and that's totally okay if you could be available for that um yes represent gommach so I just want to make a further comment regarding the amendment this amendment was actually drawn up at the time we were having the original discussion before we learned that the senate or we as committee learned that the senate was working on this and um I I asked um Mr. Chernak to hold it until after there was further discussion um because it was in the same time frame that the senate bill was then introduced and I was not clear on what path uh it was going to take and whether or not it was going to be whether or not there would be changes in the senate bill um which could have made the amendment um would could have been a duplication in some ways or so I was very unclear so I just kind of held it until getting to the point of that we're at now and that's why I didn't introduce it before now so so what I'm going to leave us with before lunch as I said is when we come back from lunch if you want us to take a vote on your amendment on this the senate bill which passes senate by voice vote unanimously and through your committee 5-0 then um then I will have my voice vote our show of hands change the bill before we vote on it on our committee to get to the floor um after that after that hand vote then we'll have like I said we'll have a roll call on this and then but again that if we take over my understanding of the rules is that and I may be wrong on this but my understanding of the rules is that if you offer an amendment if we vote down your amendment you won't be able to re-offer it if we take a roll vote but are you speaking on the floor Mr. Chair well starting here but I'm just trying to let the opportunity provide the purely technical question if the committee votes it down traditionally a member has not offered the amendment subsequently on the floor as a matter of committee comedy but that's not prohibited that's a tradition not a rule so there you have the ruling on it so um again I still am going to hold to the hand vote after lunch and then we'll take a roll call vote on the bill itself and if you want to offer this on the floor and then we would come back and take a roll call vote prior to you offering it so that we can then report on that and then you would have the opportunity to discuss this on the floor if you suggest that you're right so um so that's about as close as I can get to answering both of the concerns of representative Hango inside so we'll break now thank you Michael I will see you this time clear now in this historic time briefly 15 minutes on the house adjourns this afternoon