 Welcome to what the F is going on in Latin America and the Caribbean. A popular resistance broadcast of hot news out of the region. In partnership with Code Pink, Common Frontiers, Council on Hemispheric Affairs, Friends of Latin America, Interreligious Task Force on Central America, Massachusetts Peace Action, and Task Force on the Americas, we broadcast Thursday's 4.30 p.m. Pacific, 7.30 p.m. Eastern on YouTube Live, and you can find us on three channels now at the Convo Couch at Code Pink Action and at Popular Resistance Org. And post-broadcast, you can find our program on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Telegram, and at popularresistance.org under podcasts. Today's episode, Decolonization, Multi-Polarity, and the Demise of the Monroe Doctrine. And that's the title of an article we're going to be discussing today. And I'm really, really excited and honored to introduce all of you to my friend and fellow activists, Fred Mills. And Fred is joining us from Maryland today. I'm actually speaking with you from Cali, Columbia. So let me tell you a little bit about Fred. He is a professor of philosophy at Bowie State University and deputy director of Council on Hemispheric Affairs. And I think all of you probably know Council on Hemispheric Affairs, as I mentioned earlier, is a broadcast partner of the program. He researches and writes on ethics, philosophy, U.S.-Latin America relations, and has recently published a book, and Rike Düssel's Ethics of Liberation and Introduction. He's the master at that. So before we start our conversation, I want to read to all of you the opening paragraph of Fred's latest article, which is entitled the same as we've titled today's broadcast. And this will give you a really good idea of the conversation we want to have today, and it's very, very succinct as to what is unfolding in Latin America and the Caribbean in this moment before our eyes. So December 3, 2023 will mark the 200th anniversary of the Monroe Doctrine. It will also mark its obsolescence in the face of popular resistance and the pink tide of progressive governments in Latin America that have been elected over the past two and a half decades. The prevailing ideology of these left and left of center movements rejects the Washington consensus and opts for a new consensus based on the decolonization of the political, economic, social, and cultural sphere. This consensus is accompanied by encounters and conferences that advanced liberatory traditions developed since the 1960s, as well as those deeply rooted in indigenous cultures. It is Washington's failure to respect and adjust to this political and ideological process of transformation that precludes at this time, a constructive and cooperative us fallen foreign policy towards the region. So that I'm going to share with all of you the link to the article because it's really very thorough in discussing this subject and it's so timely Fred, because we have just finished a two year process of well and with one more election in Argentina next year, two years of elections throughout Latin America in the Caribbean, starting with the return of the moss in MAS in Olivia in October of 2020. So let's talk about what is unfolding and how significant it is I mean before we went live we were talking that it's really pretty much impossible to undo what is unfolding at this point. Yeah, first, thank you for inviting me. It's really a pleasure to dialogue with you on this important topic and also to acknowledge the co authorship of William Kamikato with whom I've had a very productive dialogue on these issues. What we're witnessing I believe in this last few years of the election of left and left of center governments is an irreversible trend. Not just in terms of pushback against neoliberalism and foreign domination, but on the positive side of vision of the possibility of having a sovereign America's Latin America in the Caribbean, and of building host neoliberal forms of economic and social life. The conquest was not just a conquest of people's bodies and land, but also an attempt to occupy their minds to pose to position Europe and later US Europe as the leading edge of history with a divine mission to civilize Amor India. And what we're seeing today is a tremendous pushback, not only in terms of trying to construct a post neoliberal order, but indeed colonizing the mind and culture, which is a precondition of making these advances. And really the conquest and using the Catholic Church, the empire of the church to do the psychological warfare as we would call it today, and really very profound. To me that's why it is so important that we see, and I would give able moralism Bolivia in in current history, the, the accolades for this, the importance of uplifting recognizing listening to and learning from indigenous people to undo all of that European conquest on every level, including living with the earth in a bit in a healthier manner. Yeah, I agree we cannot say that this idea of decolonization started recently. So it has its precursors and to pack a motto indigenous uprisings. Later, the Bolivarian cause. And so what we saw as you mentioned in Bolivia was really a fascist coup, and it had obvious elements of white supremacy with the humiliation of indigenous peoples the image of pouring paint, forcing an indigenous woman to kneel in the street and pouring paint on her, bringing this huge Bible, a picture of the so called President Janine Anya is bringing the Bible in. And really, there was a great threat to this plurry national state a state that recognizes and even cultivates this plurality of nationalities. And yet, the resistance for one year was fierce and relentless, led by indigenous peoples and the political organization of the mosque the movement toward socialism. And within that year they were able to recuperate their democracy. And so, if indigenous movements were invisible to some in the north. It's impossible for them to be invisible today. Let's talk a little bit about, and our audience knows this is a recurrent theme but it's so so important. How it was possible, because the moss is such a perfect example of how it was possible to have an elected government overturn and a coup and then return to power within a year. And that's significant. And that has to do with, with the moss their social as a social movement as a political movement, political formation community organized all of that was paramount to returning to power. So how did the coup happen in the first place. We had an extreme partisan as Secretary General of the OAS and unfortunately he's still there Louisa Magro. And really, he and his electoral commission instigated doubts about the legitimacy of the election. And there's empirical evidence by prestigious organizations CEPR MIT that went over these election results and did not find any serious irregularities. And yet, this intervention of Louisa Magro and his electoral commission. And actually, I think, evoked in the extreme right and Bolivia, the specter that they can now seize power. And, lo and behold, they were able to do this temporarily by force. And temporarily temporarily only because there was a nationwide movement community by community that was organized was, I would also argue the political formation within the moss because you're consistently developing new candidates to run for electoral office and then you're able to, to take power through constitutional means through electoral means versus, you know, anything more violent. And that's really, that's really playing out across the Americas right now I'm speaking to you from Colombia today, and the social movements are going to be a big, big factor in how much power the new government here in Colombia actually has you just because you're in power doesn't mean you have power. And there's going to need to be a lot of organization and support from the communities up showing the newly elected president and vice president they support him and what they want but it's also a message to the opposition. The opposition sees what the people want as well. Yeah, I think this is a critical theme this relationship between constituent power and constituted power of the state, and Chavez recognized early on, the critical importance of what he called the civic military alliance that in times the Bolivarian project was threatened with, and as we've seen in recent history, assassination attempts, military mercenary incursions, an ongoing economic blockade of the country, that the only way to sustain a resistance under such pressure is to have this alliance with the popular sectors with the people who voted you into power in the first place. And the loss of that connection between constituent power and constituted power basically ends up undermining the sustainability of the state and also the theme of governing of the state, and that's what's immediately is critical here. And there's some self criticism going on now, especially in light of the opportunities the left has to look at the errors of the past. And one of those areas that in some circumstances that link between popular power and the state began to erode. To correct this, I believe, there's a growing consciousness. For example, the moreno party of the need to maintain morena as a movement, not just a political party. We saw that really an Ecuador, didn't we? Difference between Alianza Baiz with Rafael Correa, creating a fabulously successful electoral platform with this party, but not a movement which perhaps if that had been in place, the election had been very different. And I'm not criticizing our friend Rafael Correa, but it is a lesson to be learned. And it's a good example of the difference between an electoral platform and a movement. Morena was created originally as a, as an electoral platform as well. I mean, it, you know, helped put Omlo into power by building this huge electoral, it now is evolving into a social movement to help advance the programs. It's really important for those constitutions that only allow a single term, like here in Colombia, Petro and Francia can serve one four-year term. In Mexico, Omlo can serve one six-year term. So there has to be some sort of formation in place for the continuum of the project. For instance, when we were in power last, last week in Bogota, one of the Senators, Senadora Hayel, she was quite powerful in her talk last, last Tuesday, we were there. And, you know, she was really clear that Gustavo Petro and Francia Marquez have four years. Paco historical is a 20-year project. And so how do you ensure you have to have constant education growth movement building candidate development coming. This is a 20-year project. And the current government only has four years. So you're going to need ensuing candidates to keep moving the country and the project forward. And that's where I think it's not if we talked about this offline where this is a project throughout the Americas in different ways in different countries. It's a it's the genie cannot be put back in the bottle. This has emerged this, this desire for the national sovereignty, natural resource sovereignty and governments that are that have economic programs for the majority of the citizens. That's where Latin America and the Caribbean is in this moment. Yeah, this is can't be undone. I don't believe. Yeah, if we look at recent gatherings of regional associations, Salak, Alba, the Pueblo group, Abia Yala soberana. We see a common theme, and it's a recognition. And part of this recognition I think is informed by all of this consciousness and study of and criticism of modernity of the idea of some divine right that Europeans in the US has to dominate the cultures and economies. No, this is a thing now of the past. It's over. And that's why Monroeism is doomed. So there's this consciousness of a new opportunity to advance the cause of sovereignty. But one of the conditions is multi polarity. And this is why we stress in the article that only in a multi polar world can the Latin American the Caribbean avoid domination by any one superpower and by diversifying their trade relationships that also benefit from the economic and even cultural relationships that they they can develop with a variety of nations. So, these are legs of the same stool sovereignty, integration, and multi polarity. So let's talk about integration because this was the theme of the Salak summit in Mexico City September of 2021. After a four year pause the president of Mexico reconvene Salak it was very very significant. And maybe before we talk about that summit we should talk about what to me. And to this in your article to to me the most important speech in the Americas in the year 2021 was almost discourse of July 24 2021 on the 238th anniversary of Simone Boulevard's birth. It was significant. And in Mexico, everybody was pretty excited regardless of politics people were excited about the theme of that discourse. And one of what one of many themes I guess for the audience I've shared this with you before that, you know he did a brilliant job recognizing the life and times of Simone Boulevard and how, and how Boulevard understood the Americas, and the and the westward expansion of the United States he was really clear about that. And what that meant for the rest of the Americas. And not also this idea by the way. And the US State Department but defined by the entire region. And, you know, he, the president actually called for the dissolution of the way as he talked about regional economic integration with the rest of the world creating a block, an economic block that could, that could interface with the rest of the world. So it was a really profound. I mean, I would share a lot of us in Mexico at the time you know this is this is how like his dream of what foreign policy should look like what is should look like. And actually we know that it was his actual foreign policy and economic policy that he was out laying out, because the following month, he announced that Mexico would be hosting the Venezuela dialogue. That was August of 2021 and Salah. And so here we are just watching more and more on roll. Very profound. Amlo comes on to the regional stage with that great speech. You mentioned calling for, you know, that's enough. End of this Monroe doctrine. I really do believe it was the best speech in the Americas. Yeah, and this made him a major player. Yeah, I really still in the hemisphere. And this appears to have been lost on Washington, when just a year later, Washington hosts the ninth summit of the Americas and doesn't invite the governments that it has targeted for regime change. And this inspired I think those two alternative summits, one the people summit in Los Angeles and the workers summit in Tijuana. And just five months after that summit, the Puebla group met and the Puebla group consists of visionaries former presidents and other leaders in Latin America. And they met and came up with a declaration that really I think set some of the themes for the regional agenda. Things like gender equality, the free movement of people the ecological transition, the defense of the rights of indigenous peoples. And I think probably of chief importance to advance regional processes of integration. And then just a few days later, you see leaders in South America, calling on the presidents of South America to reconstitute or unison. And unison has been moved their headquarters from Ecuador to Bolivia, because under the former president, do K in Colombia, they left the organization. And in Ecuador, the building the headquarters was confiscated. So we see all of these, these meetings and we have to mention sovereign of your yellow movement, indigenous organizations from 16 different countries met in just last week, two weeks ago, and again made similar integrations but included the idea of pluri nationality as one of their guiding principles. So, I agree with you that this speech of AMLO opened up a space and inspired I think reinvigorated the movement toward sovereignty and integration. It was such that it was an ingenious speech in many ways on July 24 to use, you know, see men and bring it to today, because there is so much and both. Okay, let's talk about the select summit for a moment. This was September of 2021 in Mexico City. And I'd like to talk about that because to me it was, it's, it's a whole five hour summit is actually on YouTube and I have watched the whole thing because it's so was so fascinating to me. I don't think it would have been as successful as it was without also Fred I would argue something really unique has happened in the in Latin America and the Caribbean, not just this emergence of sovereignty and political wanting economic integration. But there was and I think you can see this watching the song, there was a humanitarian element, despite politics. There was a humanitarian scene unifying the Americas ever in my lifetime and I think that was a direct result of the global north specifically the United States, not assisting Latin America and the Caribbean during the pandemic. I think something happened on a very humanitarian level between all the country south of the US border. It was really clear, you're on your own, you're dispensable, you know, you're dispensable, and I think that really comes through in a lot of the, the, the talks at the summit, the select summit. Yeah, I think there's a unity there on it in a different way. Yeah, I agree I think the pandemic. Yeah, the pandemic revealed the utter inhumanity of the sanctions, but these are, you know the word sanctions is a euphemism these are illegal unilateral curse of measures and the sanctions killed campaign. And the last two reports of the United Nations on sanctions against countries not only in Latin America but beyond, demonstrate without a doubt that sanctions kill, they cause hardship for hundreds of thousands of people and they've caused 10s of thousands of death, just in Venezuela alone. And to continue this during a pandemic. Really, I open the eyes of doubters about the intentions of US policy vis-a-vis Latin America because if you really cared about freedom and democracy. One of the first things you want to do is defend human life. So, yes, the values of defending human life, human life, all human life. Not just the white Christian people from Europe. I'm sorry, I had to say that. No, no, it's really what it's what it's been like in this hemisphere for the last 500 years. Yeah, that's been the dominant. Let's talk a little bit about. Oh, gosh, I've got tons of things I want to ask you so let me pick a few here that. So coming out of the Salah Summit, there was a real agreement on the need for economic integration. And even Guillermo Lasso of Ecuador, the right wing president, said overtly that he wanted to be able to create an alliance with all of the world, Russia, China, Iran, and the United States. And I think this is important because not everyone in the region wants to exclude the United States in order to move forward. There is room for the US and Canada to participate, but there needs to be an evolution on the part of Washington and Ottawa. Almost specifically and now the new president here in Columbia or very overt. There is space at the table for the United States, but for them, the table is round. The table not the table that's being created in Latin America and the Caribbean is round, where everybody is an equal in voice in in politics in representation. Yeah, I don't know that that's something our country can embrace, but that's the overture is there. The overture is always there even from the countries that are targeted for quote on regime change. You know, Maduro has never taken direct talks with the United States off the table, and right now is quite eager to continue the trade relationship. So, really, if the principle of sovereign equality of nations is respected, then instead of the unilateral curse of measures and the intent to destroy the Bolivarian Revolution. If those things can be transcended, which I don't think is going to happen immediately. Then there can be some genuine, I think, constructive relationships between the United States and Latin American the Caribbean right now in relation to Venezuela. We see these talks going on in Mexico. And it appears that this does not signal that the US is ready to accept the Bolivarian cause, but rather that now they're looking more toward an electoral process to try to change the governmental formula in Venezuela. Well, gosh, I just want to say one thing about about Venezuela because this is something that and the and the dialogue that's happening between the elected government and the opposition. This is something that I don't think we talk about enough in the States and it's not. It's not well enough, known either, in my opinion, that the opposition, as defined by Washington is Juan Guaido Leopoldo Lopez that 2% of the very wealthy very extreme violent right. The opposition actually does participate in the electoral process they're not very organized they haven't done a lot of political formation and they admit this themselves that they have weaknesses they have to overcome and they have to, you know, a lot of party development and those things that they have to do. That's part of the opposition we don't talk about in the stage or at least you know the mainstream media doesn't and it's significant is they are they are they full out admit they don't support the current process in Venezuela. But they believe in constitutional change, not violent change they believe in constitutional changes which is why they still form parties and participate in the electoral process and I think that that is really, really important and it also to me shows in a very in a way or maybe perhaps more deep than that this shift in Latin America and the Caribbean this shift to dialogue this shift to really overtly recognizing constitutional processes, valuing those and you and affecting change that way. And the last election in Venezuela, co pay and action democratically democratic action they, these are the major traditional parties in Venezuela they participated in the electoral process. And one of the things that's going on at the table in Mexico, as the opposition tries to extract as much concessions as they can, is that the government of Venezuela was also able to set some conditions that the parties not support sanctions not support an outside intervention in their country and that the Camila saw that she be an official delegate at this negotiating table. And this, this was a very important condition, because it keeps in the forefront, the illegal jailing of Venezuelan diplomat Alex Saab and there's going to be a hearing on the 12th of December, with regard to his diplomatic status, but he should have been arrested in the first place. So yeah there's a lot of nuance a lot of interesting things going on with these negotiations. For our audience, Alex saw our audience will remember we've done a couple, we've done a couple episodes, regarding his case one about a year ago, which I'll put Canada, just to talk about the extra judicial reach of the United States, which is ending here in the Americas and then we also had an evening, a film premiere and an evening discussion with Camila, and Carlos Ron who's the Vice Minister of North America for the Venezuelan foreign ministry so I can share with the audience links to those two episodes to get a little, a little refresher on that but that extra judicial reach of just completely ignoring, not accepting the diplomatic status of a foreign official. I mean that's just one more that's probably global Monroe is specific to Latin America I mean yeah he was in prison because the United States basically didn't recognize. What he was doing on behalf of Venezuela but to just overtly disregard his diplomatic status is and I think the real motivation was that Alex up through all his business contacts from his from the past. I was able to put those to use in circumventing the sanctions against Venezuela so he could bring fuel food and medicine into the country. And that's what I believe made him a target, not the unsubstantiated charges that will levied against him. And that was he found a workaround. So let's, I promised you 30 minutes Fred, and so, as always I just so love talking to you so I have a few other things let me just go through my list here because I. What do you I guess I'm closing let's talk about. I guess maybe the failure of the summit of the Americas and how I think to me at least how that's like really showed this crumbling this decay of the OAS of US dominance of the region or of course so much of that had to do with. There was an omelos announcement on May 10 that he wasn't going to go to Los Angeles, because Venezuela Cuba and Nicaragua weren't invited he did send his foreign minister but he did not go on it he didn't send Mexico on equal what would you say equal diplomatic status it wasn't president to president that. I give him a lot of credit for for saying that and you could really see because other presidents followed suit. And there's a real crumbling that we're witnessing now. I wouldn't even say dismantling this really just crumbling. You know, William Kamikado and I looked back at the failures in US policy even to achieve their own objectives that put together the Lima group Washington put together the Lima group. This coalition of right wing governments in 2017. Well that coalition no longer exists. It's, it's presidents were either removed for corruption or voted out of office and even the headquarters of the Lima group itself. Mestillo was elected and said hey this thing doesn't exist anymore okay his foreign minister. You know this thing doesn't exist anymore, and all the attempts. Everything in the book of regime change used against Venezuela. And now the secretary general, who had a significant leverage in the past, when he had these right wing governments to back him. He's now on the defensive with charges of improprieties and his own behavior as secretary general. And so we see on all different fronts, the failure of US policy to recognize that the Bolivarian cause of regional independence and integration is irreversible. And we already live in a multipolar world it's not that we're struggling to attain it. And so the failure to adjust to these backs on the ground basically undermines the very purpose that the US has in trying to retain some influence at the very moment that the US was ramping up its attack on Cuba. The president of Cuba. Diaz canal went on a trip to Turkey into China into Russia, Algeria, Algeria fortifying those relationships and hammering out some economic accords. So it actually, you know, the attempt to bring about regime change in different countries and to re dominate and assert its hedging. It's just not working. And so it's time to change course, but it would take a very radically new posture of Washington toward Latin America. No, I agree and I, I'm not sure that's possible in this particular moment. I think it's inevitable if the US is going to survive. But I'm not sure that in this moment we're going to see it happen I hope and I hope in my lifetime I do. There's options now there's there's this whole other world that hasn't has emerged, but specifically economic powers that have emerged and you know you can't you can't put Jack back in the box. Those and that's a terrible you know, but I mean really you can't these countries have emerged they are not going to be put back down, and that that's the new reality as you said we already live in a multi polar world. And we should say that it's not just left and left or center governments that are champions of multi polarity. It's across the political spectrum. I don't know if Selec participated in the China Selec forum. It's not just the progressive government so for sure. You know this as you said the genie is is out and it's not going to be put back. Yeah, and it's very exciting. It's just too precariously, you know, some parts of the world but it's, it's really exciting what what has emerged and what is growing skill. So thank you Fred, I just so thankful for your time always so wonderful to see you and talk with you. I should just remind our audience you've been watching what the F is going on in Latin America and the Caribbean where a popular resistance broadcast you can find us on YouTube live 730pm Eastern every Thursday and those YouTube channels are the Convo couch code pink action and popular resistance org. And be sure to catch us next Thursday. Thanks again Fred. Thanks for inviting me Terry.