 I think certainly in radio documentaries I made in the past I felt like you were often encouraged to take yourself out of the picture, you know, particularly in the BBC because of the nature of them having to be an impartial organisation. You find yourself reporting rather than experiencing, you know, so like, you know, you go somewhere and you report the facts as you see them and it's all very much about sort of providing the evidence to back up. You know, you're not really making an argument, you're showing something and you're using evidential stuff to show that picture, you know, so you say like here's the professor I've just found and here's the, you know, expert on the stuff and these people all show that this is how things are, you know. And in making podcasts, you know, it's very much about this kind of going on a journey and experiencing things and how you respond to stuff is incredibly important because that is shaping and informing how the audience feel about it and it's kind of, it's okay to express views and opinions and you can do that. The thing I've loved most about making podcasts is that sense of building up a community. We've haunted, it was just lovely to kind of see, you know, this thing growing and people talking on Twitter about it and coming on board and sending emails about it, sending their own ghost stories to me and also having opinions on stuff. You know, it's sort of saying like, actually, you know that ghost story where you had an expert on it and said it might possibly be to do with this, you know, what about if it was actually that, you know, sending me links to it. Here's a YouTube video ball lightning. It could have been ball lightning. And I love that and the kind of conversation that grows around stuff. And you see like, you know, with a podcast, you have the ability to react to that, you know, particularly if you're coming out on a weekly basis, you can really react to your audience. And, you know, I think that's great. And I think like, it's a nice idea that this isn't just your thing. It's kind of, it's collectively owned by all these people. And you're the one making it and putting stuff down on tape. But you know, you are your audience, you know, there's, to get all poetic on your ass here, there's a line from Tennyson, which is, I am part of all that I have met, you know, and definitely that sort of sense of a project kind of being shaped by listener feedback, you know, the contributors who take part, the listeners who listen, you know, all these people are kind of shaping this thing. And so they all feel an ownership of it. It's a huge privilege when someone says to you, like, you know, you've made it into my podcast list, you know, like, you know, you've only got time in your life for like maybe sort of five, six, whatever, regular listens, your things. And if you can break into someone's kind of core listens, then you go like, yes, great. That's Danny Robbins. And this is the podcast producers podcast with me, Neil Mossy. It's a place where podcast producers share their tips and experiences so that everyone can start a podcast and keep going. There's details of how to subscribe in the description. Thanks so much for getting to this point in the podcast. And thanks again to Danny, the links to him and his podcasts are in the description. And if you've got this far into the podcast, it's really good to have you here. Why not give me a thumbs up or a comment or tweet me. It'd be lovely to hear from you. And there's also details in the description for where you can find the next episode. Can you please help my daddy get 1000 subscribers? Just click on his face. Thanks. Bye.