 Okay, I think we can start. Good morning once again to all. How are you? Happy Friday. Thanks for being with us. I see quite familiar faces. I'm Gabriela Frias and I'd like to welcome you to this session that we have seen in Spanish with the collaboration of the World Economic Forum, a huge opportunity to talk about the subject that it is of interest to all of us and it is the new model, the paradigm of Latin America, a model that should be sustainable and warranty progress and development and thus preventing episodes as the ones that we have seen in the past years. This is going to be a session that will also be watched in the social network so I kindly ask you two things. First, to remind those people who are participating and to welcome those who are in the social networks to do it, but in this address, web.ch-ask for your questions that I'm sure someone is going to be asking and we will be sharing it with our panel members. web.ch-ask And this session is going to, is in live stream so the World Economic Forum and we in CNN, espanyol.com also dash web. So I have the good luck of being able to bring this conversation to very interesting places for countries and because of the ideas of the experts who are with me today, Rosario Cordova, welcome Rosario. She's the Chairman of the Private Council of Competitiveness of Colombia. A couple of hours ago we were talking with President Santos Agriculture Industry Tourism. We will hear about the articulation and the possibilities of the sectors that you have chosen. Minister Arnaldo Castillo is the Minister of Economic Development of Honduras. Welcome Minister and thank you for being with us. Hugh Welch representing the private sector. Hugh tells us, well, this is the enterprise about no one knows about or don't know what we do. He will tell us, talking with the private sector. Enric Cardo, Anaime Aguaje is the Associate and Director for Latin America of the 80 KERNI Consultant entity in Mexico. Enric Cardo, thank you for being with me. And Andres Velasco, welcome Andres, Professor of International Practices for International Development in the Columbia Global Center of Latin America in Chile. Once again, welcome all of you. This is not a new subject and you know it. And we have talked a lot about it, maybe too much. The prices of raw materials, the drop of prices, and this has revealed to us what we didn't do and what we have to do in order to prevent the problems in the news cycle. When I mentioned the new growth model for Latin America, what is the first thing that you are thinking already now when I just mentioned, well, as you said, this is not new for Latin America nor for any of our countries. As a matter of fact, I was there saying that before the boom of commodities, we were talking about this, we were talking about the need for having in our economies some sectors that would add value, much more value, and they need to be prepared to be able to develop those sectors. So I think that we go back to a discussion of 2006, 2007, and in Columbia I can affirm it because the private council of competitiveness was created in 2007, aiming at working with a possible development of new players and to make economy more sophisticated and to generate the conditions for those sectors to be able to make progress. So welcome this conversation right now at this point in time because hopefully in this opportunity, we will be able to build the basis that will allow us to be prepared for when a new commodities boom comes and that we can take advantage of that in a fruit board manner to allow us to continue growing and not only to fund at a certain point in time growth and to abandon the other sectors. Andres Velasco, creating that new platform, does it require or are the minimum indispensable requirements such as macroeconomic stability to start off? And this conversation is now in 2016. What would you add to it? Well, first of all, I'm very happy that we are talking about this because it is necessary, very necessary, because for one decade or more in Latin America, we believed and we were wrong. We thought that we were wealthier than what we were because of copper or oil or whatever. And I think we came back to reality and so the discussion could not be more timely and more indispensable. We have to remove the body from the model because the model immediately has its fans, it's those who are against it. Let's talk about strategy and the strategy besides confirming as sad data with the exception of Mexico, Brazil, Peru, Colombia, Argentina, Chile, we export today the same as we used to export 10, 20, 30 or 40 years ago. The countries that really start up in Europe and Singapore, New Zealand today export something completely different to what they used to export about two or three decades ago. How can we achieve it? Well, paying attention to that. First of all, we have to diversify economy and exports. The basic needs, of course, the economy has to be stable, the state of law and low inflation, but there is this starting point. Beyond that, we are going to need collaboration from the public sector and the private sector, much more emphasis in technology, a private sector that communicates with the university world. It hardly happens in Latin America, but you can correct me if I'm wrong, and the good will, clear good will of the political world and the entrepreneurial world, that this time we have to do things in a different manner. I'd like to go into the specific case of Honduras with Arnaldo Castillo, minister, as minister of economic development and looking at this before and after but we already heard from the other panel members. What did you see and what are you doing? Where are you turning your gears to? The strategy. Well, we should do things in a more professional way and we are in the so-called 2020 program interacting with McKinsey Company. We have identified six abutments in the economy or opportunities, would I say it? One of them is the tourism sector. The other one is the textile sector. The other one is the intermediate manufacturer sector. Housing, agriculture industry because we think it is very important and we as a country are all working, farming agriculture so what we want to have is in the next five years to be able to exponentiate or multiply these six abutments and we are trying to make it in a different manner, exponential growth. You were asking what is different? Well, it's different because it is a program where the private sector and the public sector have invested money and are funding this study and regardless what government comes the private companies are going to watch to continue with the program for the next five years and we continue but we can continue for other five years and trying to have a growth above 5% Ricardo and I, the minister didn't mention you but mentioned your competition as a consultant. What do you think when you talk about the strategy or the new model for Latin America? Well I think the most important thing is to increase productivity and everything has to be centered in productivity and productivity aligned together to high potential sectors and very much focused towards human capital but human capital with one part one thing is education to educate the people with good curriculum for the 21st century but the other one is the development of competences and skills because productivity is linked to it and having a formal labor market where we really see those skills and competences reflected and certified, that's very important and the other very important investment infrastructure that is the responsibility of the private and public sector investments and productive assets in the sectors that have the highest potential services as well as manufacture and innovation and technological development that is very important, the levels of investment and development and research in Latin America are quite long but if you want to increase or duplicate those levels you cannot do it when you see the amount of researchers that we have, regardless how much we duplicate we don't have researchers that do it so it has to be an innovation focused towards commercialization and trade and to find new ways of doing things that are changing and when changing services and manufacture we have to change, you speak about digitalizing you have to have a very pragmatic innovation focus and in terms of sectors I think the experiences that we have seen and that give you sustainable advantage are when you develop sectors and competitiveness at local level, at city level or cluster level we have two examples in Nuevo León the state of Nuevo León and Guadalajara what is being done here in Medellín what they want to do in Bogotá what has been done in San José, Costa Rica that is having a sustainable advantage in order to encourage and to have competitiveness to integrate the different chains value chains with context of an open economy, thank you the last and the least important a private sector company operating in Latin America let's see what what would you do differently if Latin America would look at how, if you can describe it these differently, but it would be to be about recognizing the evolutionary process that's going to take place and I'd use my own company as an example a very modest, small example of an organization that went through an evolutionary process over the course of the last century DSM, most of you have never heard of DSM but you all use our products every day DSM stands for Dutch State Mines and we started out as a coal mining company in the Netherlands a hundred years ago and we're perfectly happy mining coal in the Netherlands for export around the world but over time began to develop more value added products from the coal that we mined and the evolution continued with new innovation and new R&D to new industrial chemicals we could produce from different gases in coal that we mined but over the years we moved out of those businesses to invest in more higher end specialty businesses such as nutrition so today the world's largest nutritional ingredient company in both food and feed we're in engineering plastic so we're in most of the cars in the electronics you use we're in medical devices and fibers and this is a long way from sort of the extraction commodity type business we started out as and I think that same evolutionary process is underway already today in Latin America we've invested quite a bit of money here we've grown 183% in Latin America in the last five years and we see this as a good place to continue to invest not just for commodities and raw materials but to turn those into more highly highly value added products for export around the world how much of your R&D how much of the knowledge is in Latin America or not today a very modest amount so in the feed industry quite a bit because there's quite a robust feed business in Brazil in other businesses not so much it's mostly application laboratories finding ways to use our ingredients and other people's products but we see down the road when we can develop a sufficient talent base here that this could be a real hotbed for innovation a real hotbed for R&D particularly in areas like renewable energy where there's a tremendous amount of know-how already today where would you say what country can give you you can use as an example for renewable energy certainly a country like Brazil for things like fisheries, places like Chile where we already have robust businesses thank you so much with this sincere with this comments I would like to ask you in these terms we talk a lot about technology we have sectors of commodities but in these sectors we also create knowledge and sometimes we demonize them so when we say what sectors are going to be the leading edge in the region and I ask you to help me trying to choose technological new sectors and to create a strategy for a country as India did the industry of software it is a matter of under the lasco I don't have the slightest idea what sectors are going to come up and I'm happy not to know it because I believe that we do not need governments that aim at knowing everything or want to know everything first suggestion you said it was saying that in Colombia and Chile in many countries we've been talking about this for 20 years the question I would ask is why have you talked so much and have achieved so little that there are failures in the market failures of coordination between the private and public boards and also failures of public policies that do things the wrong way I go back to your question what I do miss is institutions do they have in common New Zealand with Singapore or Finland well those are countries where they have institutions that have long horizons that are very well respected and they not the minister or the president or the politicians they don't have those answers if a politician does it with a short political horizon it will be read in the political key he said he bet this because he has friends in the sector or whatever trying to win the elections but if it is done by an institution like the Central Bank for example and it's mandate is to look beyond the political cycles and to see these are the bets independent or regarded what happens politically next year or year after that that is what we are missing and there is no country in Latin America that has something like that please raise your hands those who think it is the main subject in the region would you help the assistance no one believes that these are the institutions thank you everyone believes these are the institutions please Rosario go ahead well online with what Andres is saying and he had thought about it really our problem in Latin America is the institutionality when you look at even in the indicators of global competitiveness of the WUF what are we doing wrong in Latin America there is a coincidence institutions we are in between 140 countries above 114 115 in terms of institutionality in your daily work how do you reflect that bottleneck Rosario well it is there where you have the huge problems and obstacles because you have the problems as it was also mentioned by Andres how can you interrelate the economy if there is no an institution because what institutionality but what is institutionality the way in how all the people in society public sector and private sector the congress and justice interact but if that is failing it is impossible for the economy to be developed efficiently the way it should be so you and it would be like adding both things so all countries almost all those who are here sitting and represented have policies right now some type of a policy of productive development recent policies 2014-2015 okay and we are in the near future are going to issue hours in Colombia so it is clear to us that we have to do it but we have at the same time the problem of institutionality so what we would have to do is to see how this opportunity we are able to overcome those market failures we are able to get the coordination required not only public and private but public public it is very difficult to carry out policies like the ones we are talking about if there is no coordination amongst the different ministries in one country so or different entities that are responsible for development but we do not need a new coordination ministry no that's not what I'm saying what I'm saying is that the institutions we have to make them work because there are the spinal cord of a country and we say make them work what are we going to say because we always speak about talent in the companies and the workers but we have examined talent also in public management it is a big issue we have a case like Peru with the mining sector and there are places that have high levels of poverty that we are able to overcome it and the multi investments in the mining sector minister how do you do it well talent somehow is the most important thing human capital is a real treasure at the end of the day how the countries and how the institutions use it and what we should try to understand I think in Latin America in general we have the human talent I think there are many universities in many governments there is also this human talent but there are some policies and not only policies of the governments but also there are subjects of funding for example we have funding rather expensive funding that do not allow even some governments to start off or other companies even if they are small entrepreneurship it's just stopped so there are many problems and difficulties that we have to implement the strategy that you already have where do you find your bottlenecks because of the institutions give us special examples specific examples in Honduras I think that there is a new government structure where there is to put it that way five super ministries so I think it is quite well said what every minister has to do on the other hand some of the ministries are pointing towards some certification in ISO 9000 and that was not even taken into account before it is something new that is teaching us how to better manage human resources as well as economic resources operating foreign company foreign investor what have been the bottlenecks for you for your company getting a lot of our talent to move internationally for further development that's always been a challenge for us but not just Latin America around the world we want to develop our future leaders from all parts of the world we operate 60 different countries so that's always been a challenge and finding the opportunity to get the right technical staff as we begin to upscale our operations in Latin America that can work in more high tech digitized facilities that's always been a challenge as well Ricardo, Mexico is a clear case with the aerospace and automobile industry but what Andres was saying we don't know what sectors or which ones to choose one, two or three, Mexico is maybe a bad example but beginning with the Mexican case what can you tell us about the type of strategies that the public sector and the companies would also have to be collaborating to identify and potentiate in your opinion well I think a very important element I'd say the institutionality is to create well it does create distortions at micro level but the important thing is to open the economy in those specific sectors in trade and investment I think that creates a very important discipline to integrate the value chains to be able to be much more productive and that I think that is what allows to create for investments with big and sound companies and to create internal groups integrating the chains in order to grow and to be able to increase the economic activities in the regions but what is stuck on the middle of the way I'm going to talk a lot about bottlenecks because we have to identify where in your practice with your customers to find those bottlenecks in the case for example of Mexico or Central America or whatever you tell me well yes there is something in the borders in the terms of transportation but in the development of more value added for example in the automobile sector in Mexico how value added which is generated in Mexico is big it's a big exporter at global level but the value added generated is between three and a half and four percent of the GDP in the automobile sector how do we integrate those activities of higher value added and how do we integrate the relationships between the academic sector and the research sector and the enterprises and the public sector so that started to work rather well but I think in Mexico we have very clear examples where we have competitiveness of world class competitiveness like as well as in some other countries in Latin America the problem in Mexico is how do we follow those examples to achieve investments in other regions and other zones well there are two subjects that I'm thinking about the value change and the productive value change which are limiting as I am understanding in Central American integration that has also been difficult as one of the subjects that we have to touch on and I begin with that one if we want to why don't we have more global successful Latin American enterprises have we not understood the potential of the value change because to potentiate an industry and for the companies to see that opportunity of escalating upwards doesn't seem to be present in the strategy centers or is it or where is it bottleneck once again well I think that the value change come up when there is a country as an anchor in North America's USA in Europe is Germany in Asia's China in Latin America is no one nobody if you get your iPhone we all have an iPhone in our pockets it's designed in California and assembled in China and there are components that come from Philippines, Taiwan, Korea, Malaysia Myanmar and so on there is no equivalent whatsoever in Latin America because there is not an anchor country that designs or assembles and that is bad it could have been if we have made appropriate transit in a free trade agreement throughout the country as the father said from Alaska to the Patagonia he died well he died that idea because Brazil killed it and we are still fainting for the cost of that debt of that project or of that non-desired idea a precision about the institutions it is very fashionable to talk about the institutions in general of course the law has to be fulfilled to be complied with the police should not ask for the people for money in every corner it's very important but I had a more concrete suggestion an institution not a ministry an institution whose role should be innovation and to have a horizon that is not short term when everyone is responsible for innovation no one is responsible and that is what happens does it happen also in Colombia, Rosario, how do you describe it well we in Colombia have as a model it's different because we have a national system of competitiveness, science technology and innovation the whole idea is to have a vision long term and it is a system where the private sector also participates in why the private sector because private sector is there to stay so they are the ones who are for that I would say plan, long term plan and in these days even we are going to issue the two policies one policy which is of productive development and the other one science technology and innovation that should be aligned precisely in a longer term vision but let's say I completely agree with you that you can do whatever you want in terms of writing the law creating the systems but if you have an institutionality that does not work things are not going to work either and the institutionality defined as the interaction amongst all the agents of an economy and I don't know I thought we have not talked about something which is crucial and it is the levels of development you speak about the value change but you have to see what type of economies are we in each one of these countries in Latin America likewise in our countries the majority with the exception of Chile in terms of the basic conditions to compete we are very we are doing very bad very poor in terms of infrastructure in terms of education and access to health services primary education once again institutionality and you more or less well in macroeconomic conditions and many times when you look inside of the countries or we also have those huge gaps it is not only those of the country with regards to the rest of the world but inside of the country we have huge gaps when you want to sophisticated economy and want to make the transit towards a society with a higher incomes and more knowledge you necessarily have to tackle those basic conditions and train the people otherwise you will never make the leap you will never be able to go from a commodity sector to one which is more sophisticated if you don't have the skills and the competence in order for the people to go towards a more sophisticated economy that is here again and this is the moment you put together the conjecture of the fourth technological or industrial revolution and there are multiple challenges and so we are choosing sectors that do not necessarily are developed in the cities I think about tourism for example and deportation that even the tourism sector has not achieved in many countries of the region it is the most important one actually in terms of incomes okay Ricardo I think there are very important sectors but part of the subject of productivity is to try to make small and medium companies productive we have 70% of employment and generating 30% of value so how do you put all that concept of innovation creating ecosystems as it has happened in Europe for example creating a whole ecosystem to encourage and to develop at the level of the companies higher productivity and better way to do things better focus on the products in the sectors that have the highest potential but they just stay there they don't they don't have corporate government criteria they don't have the funding so I think that encouragement that impulse that is taking place for example with the investment funds from venture capital and private equity that is dynamising part of the growth of the companies beginning with the new creation and small and medium companies okay well I think every country has its own situation we are talking about tourism for example well I think very few countries actually at the end of the day have exploited the tourism factor we in Honduras have learned for example in the case of Guatemala or the case of Costa Rica we don't have better resources in the tourism area than they we have even better we have the second largest coral reef in the world we have the mayas residues we have discovered the white city now how are we going to exploit those resources in tourism that we have that's why we put it inside of the abutments of 2020 because we understood that we did indeed need it it is a resource that we have there yesterday president Macri was talking a lot about that Argentina is the grain store of the world and fed 450 million inhabitants and said that the objective that they had in the next five years was to feed 750 million inhabitants in the world but what happens are they going to stay there or are they going to give value added to industrialize it we are talking about the productive change and the supply chain well I think it is too poor in Latin America I think China is the best that we have in the world in that field and if you need an iPhone whatever or the screen is bad at five minutes later you have the screen but if you manufacture in Colombia or Mexico and they are broken you have to go to China and ask for them so we have to understand how is that supply chain and how we can develop in a better way the governments have to invest the private companies should also invest we have to decrease capitals of course and overheads of all the funding it is very expensive minister in that strategy of tourism development is there already any calculation or an estimate of the development of our results that you have forecasted yes in Honduras in the next five years we hope to at least grow in terms of labor 150,000 people direct employment and from the monetary point of view we hope that it contributes in about four billion dollars I think we are already building that infrastructure through the ports, harbors, roads airports we have four international airports who are the ones that have the most in Latin America and one thing that you were saying at the beginning as we see it here this question now that you are here I would like to understand the neighbors how much has Honduras been looking at the neighborhood and how does Honduras work with his neighbors on this topic this is a very interesting topic because with Guatemala we are the only two countries that are going to have a customs joint venture so what is this customs union about what is happening in Europe is that the same there you arrive in Guatemala you go to Honduras without immigration you can leave through Honduras the same thing with the same merchandise some of them are protected by tariffs this is what we are doing differently we have been calling the other neighboring countries El Salvador, Nicaragua to be able to get on this bus so that we can all grow together as one single club and has this vision been aligned yes they have told us that they are interested and understand what is going to happen with the experience that these two countries are having but I think are going well with Guatemala there is a great deal of synergy and both nations are very well aligned and I think we are doing well I am going to open this session to questions and answers to begin to enrich this dialogue Ricardo is small and medium-sized companies how do you link your operations if you can give us an example and what does that mean for them in development most of our operations in Latin America are almost all of our operations in Latin America are medium or small I was following the conversation and I want to tell you that the logistics costs are very expensive outside of China or Europe the costs are low and you have to try to lower the costs so you have to try to find it seems that the new topic the most important topic here is that as long as we don't resolve the topics what are we going to do in order to choose the sector that we are going to work with because this integration seems to be very difficult and is there going to be a new bottleneck here I don't think so because I think I have to synchronize everything we're going to talk about infrastructure at large we're going to have a problem and if we talk about education at large we don't get a lot of information I'm going to be talking about tourism tourism is a classical sector where there is a market failure which can easily be corrected in Patagonia there is a little tourism because there is little infrastructure so you will ask the private sector why not build more hotels why no roads and so they say no roads no hotels and why are there no roads because nobody wants to go there so how do you fix this vicious circle you have to work with a private sector where the private sector will be committed to investing let's say 300 million dollars a year or whatever and the state will contribute with the same amount of money so what am I trying to say infrastructure specific to sectors and when we're talking about infrastructure we are really we are really having to aim at something so I think in Latin America we have improved a great deal we have improved in terms of education both for primary and secondary education, university education what's the problem where you have many people that went to the university and they're driving a taxi why because they do not find employment my friend Ricardo Hausmann in Venezuela and professor Harvard says that nobody will study to be a watch expert unless there is a watch industry and we need to make sure that people learn the skills that are needed in the market so I need to educate people and then make sure that they have an opportunity to find a job in other words things I have to go hand in hand Columbia is doing this what are the sectors that I'm going to develop A, B, C, what are the skills needed by those areas, these and those so let us talk to universities and technical institutes so that they will teach what these young students need to learn so that they can go out and find a job where their skills are pertinent so this is practical this is not about resolving everything it's about resolving the bottleneck that education has, no I wouldn't say that one thing excludes the other we need those basic conditions and here we call this making things easy in other words you do a horizontal agenda with the basic elements this is horizontal for all the sectors all the regions of the country we're talking about infrastructure we're talking about education, health institutionality everything that is across but here we have what we also call a vertical agenda and it's about how to get into those sectors in different regions this is what Andres was saying I think here in Medellin they've done things really well if I am focusing on power generation or health services or TICs or whatever then I will have to go deep into those areas and I will build this micro world of competitiveness for those sectors how by training the people that those sectors require the infrastructure the regulation technology I think it's very important for us to get into the sector so that you can really model what needs to be modeled in terms of education programs I would want to begin to receive some of the questions that we have from people who are on the social networks development according to sectors who wants to talk about this topic could you raise your hand please yes good morning I want to talk about the Colombian case which Mr. Velasco has already explained there are two elements that are lacking development one is more technological development here we have six technologies per every hundred jobs and I really want to ask if you can have a sophisticated training for technology if you only offer very short courses so we should have institutions that will change for the Sims and this exists in England in Canada, Frankfurt etc I would like for you to talk about these two layers that are lacking in development technological change and technological training thank you Ricardo please yes I think that this training model and this training of developers who are linked to the industry is definitely a bottleneck I think Brazil has higher levels but I think this is a very important gap that we need to cover where we need to work on in the case of Mexico there is the Bombardian University at Queretaro and here the question is about the link between the private sector that needs to talk about universities and how efficient this has been what has happened in Chihuahua and Guadalajara has been very important in other words you need to provide people with a basic competency so that they can go into the marketplace and be competitive and productive right away once in Mexico the US Mexico Foundation for Science invited all of the engineers who were at middle and high levels in terms of global engineering and they brought more than 100 people the question is why have they not come back to Mexico well because the development level, the research level engineering level that we can develop in Mexico is not the same we are much more productive over there than we would be over here working for a Mexican company so what we do in Mexico and I think they do it in other countries as well to adapt research and development so that we can get more talent and more investments so that we can have a more active participation in the value chain and we need to be more pragmatic in terms of small and medium-sized companies with regards to the inverted pyramid of professional technicians is a key factor in the cultural problem the culture that we inherited from Spain says that being a professional is better than being at a technical level in the United States and Canada some technicians earn more than professionals and this actually gets prolonged by political pressure because the political pressure to invest more in universities comes from the students and there are numerous students there are many students who work during the day and studied at night and it's difficult and yes change is coming about but it's going about very very slowly I think the pressure is there but there is a problem of design there is a political problem so the question is where do we inject public resources and the pressure in many countries is coming from students there is a lot of political pressure so that the government will make it possible to have a free education in Chile we have the perfect paradox that Chilean government says well university is going to be free and most of the upper end students well they they don't go to the most expensive universities and this phenomenon is being repeated in many other parts of Latin America and we don't know how to fix it and this is not linked to a long-term strategy right no just short-term political estimates that make the situation even more difficult any other question because I'm going to be looking into the social networks for our guests and I'm going to be able to ask Ricardo has talked about productivity several times and a common character of Latin America is a very low labor productivity and things do not seem to be getting better as somebody was saying here it is necessary to see what we can do in order to increase that productivity how do we up the productivity bringing more and more technology knowledge from abroad and then implemented here in our country and this would seem to be the perfect recipe and we also need to create centers that would facilitate this technology transfer but once again we find a problem which is the capability of people in their capacity of people to adapt to those technologies and how businesses use the current technology such that their employees can be as productive as possible so we go back to base one what do you do in order to train people in those areas that the country needs for its development I differ in terms of what you said about productivity and why am I saying this I worked in the textile sector for the last 20 years and in Latin America we have high levels of productivity in certain businesses and I'm going to be talking about a very basic nature for instance the automobile industry we have the cooperation which is very strong in Mexico and out of 35 factories in the world we have the most efficient factory in the world and we're competing in Thailand and China, Argentina and others in the textile sector arena I don't want to sound like I'm beating my own drum but I am it's not like I'm really trying to pitch the country but I am we are fifth in terms of productivity in t-shirts and we're practically one in America we also are great producers of shrimp antelope so the question that we need to ask ourselves is how to add value we have great hand labor people who like to work I think there has to be more commitment by the governments to provide better education and we must have more financing I have been talking about this I'm repetitive so we have to make sure that we get the resources to invest and to get the capital so what are you going to do in terms of talent and education I think we're improving I think we're aligned with a long-term topic I think there are six pillars here that we are underpinning what is it that we're doing in terms of BPO we have 34,000 or 35,000 who are working at coal centers how about technical universities well we have the greatest number or the highest bilingual population in Central America more than 10,000 graduates from school who speak English and they speak well we are waging our plans on the BPO and the coal centers we're also putting our wager on tourism we have the American Samorano school which is probably one of the best ones in Latin America and we're still placing our wager on them now we are investigating we're innovating trying to do different things now in terms of financing at this moment China as one of the main players in the region in addition to multilateral institutions how do you see financing or funding how do you see this in order to find solutions and what other countries have done like Mexico in order to deepen capital markets I think this is a pending topic but it's not the pending topic throughout the world the rates in Latin America are not what they used to be so this leads me to saying something which is something which will complement what the minister has said of course there are certain companies in Latin America which are highly productive it is the average that is highly deceitful so you have a productive factory and next door you have one which is not and this is true in sectors and it is true in countries there were a couple of Harvard researchers studying productivity according to states and the gap in Mexico between the north of Mexico let's say Guadalajara and the south is as large as the gap between US and Mexico or even greater which leads me to a practical thought I think there are two ways to become more productive one is to continue to do what you always done and hope you do it a little better because in the textile industry if I do the same time the type of fabric for 10 years well I already know how to manufacture this fabric but the advanced countries did not do the same old thing in the same way they decided to do different things they created different sectors and they created different approaches the thing is when a sector does not exist nobody drives it forward you need to imagine the sector different sectors together to imagine to dream up new sectors and then work on developing those new sectors even if they don't exist at present yes there are two veins here we need to continue to deepen into the topic of productivity even those dynamic sectors can still increase their productivity for instance the car industry IPO, aerospace there is still a long way to go and then their new sectors of course in Mexico there have been some deep reforms that have brought about a structural change in Mexico and they had been on hold for more than 15 years and what this allows us to do is to create better conditions for free competition where we can unlock the old that had been forming give the economy a great deal of mobility so the point is how do we do that and how we develop that so that there will be new participants that will get a greater market share through investment and innovation etc. for instance in the area of communication we need to open the value chain in the power sector for instance in Mexico and this should create the right conditions for instance we have special economic areas in the south but they've never been developed in Mexico and here I'm talking about productivity in the southern part of Mexico and not enough activity has been developed there so we need the joint participation of the government on the private sector so that we can work there so we can attract talent and investment one of the topics that has been coming up once and once again it was mentioned by the minister Ricardo of business in opening up a space and to make sure that these new sectors will be developed there are some very powerful private groups and sometimes these long term strategies might be clashing against the status going so perhaps the solution might be to have better institutions or more solid institutions what could you say about this from a practical perspective in terms of having a strategy that would factor in this situation there's certain things that are key for productivity of the whole economy because these are inputs that everyone uses or supplies for instance the broadband cost if your broadband cost is not competitive and your broadband is too expensive then that's sort of a tax on the rest of the economy so the solution that the broadband market should be really competitive and the same thing with a lot of other inputs like or supplies like power of course there are different situations in different countries there are countries with more competition than others but in general there's a deficit in the region and what's good is if you put more competition and you decrease costs then this is good for efficiency for cost and it's good all around because when there are people who think that the market works well for some and poorly for others then you have to change things what kind of long term strategy would you think about in the 2020 program the private sector has become almost a partner of the government because they believe in the project I think at the end of the day it's all about cooperation there were no resistances as a journalist anything you might want to tell us no I think the new government is the dynamic government who really believes in the private enterprise so no we've found no resistance no point of resistance I come from a world where it is the private sector businesses that are driving all this forward I think in the public private work is very important because the key of everything lies where they are in and I think you also have to be in contact on an ongoing basis with the academic sector and there will be sectors that will want to keep some privileges they already have and the governments need to be clear as to where they're going and if there's strong governments they will not allow themselves to be captured other than all this I think that one of the big strengths that is beginning to move itself is the ecosystem of businessmen for instance Endeavour which is present in six countries of Latin America and has generated more than 500 entrepreneurs and they're growing 35% and some even more this is a type of stimulation that we need and we need to foster to arrive at a higher scale so we can work deeper in the markets and come in with new technologies, new ideas for new products this is what being an entrepreneur is about entrepreneurs will be very empowered in this new model and these initiatives of social entrepreneurs impact investing which is about achieving objectives through networks such as Ashoka all this changes the dynamic it changes the process because they understand the parameters of that in which they're going to invest so this changes everything around the country but it goes from the bottom up to the definition of new companies questions or comments I have less than 5 minutes very short I am more aseptic in terms of productivity I am an analyst in a bank and the information about productivity is very hard to find so to do these comparisons in terms of productivity according to sectors is very difficult in 2002 the national planning department hired McKinsey to do a general study and there was information that came out of that study but how productivity is doing different sectors is very hard to know but what I wanted to say is under the GDP of companies I am talking about competitiveness in terms of taxes and I think here the impact is very diverse how can we expand this out in the short term so this will increase the competitiveness of Columbia and in the region as such as well I will take a few questions now so that they will all be answered in a few minutes I wanted you to talk about a topic which I think is very important and is the model you're talking about this model that you're talking about from an intellectual point of view to define the industries that are going to be focusing on sectors that are going to be prioritized to prepare the labor force and then develop it but there is a disease that we have in Latin America and this is like a cancer in Latin America and that is corruption what can we do about corruption can you give us some ideas in this regard five minutes Rosario what do I answer productivity or corruption with regards to productivity yes there are ways to measure productivity and in the council we're permanently measuring the work productivity in different sectors and then we see that there are sectors that are highly productive and some which are not so productive of course there is a gap between us and there are very big gaps between certain sectors here within Colombia but yes there are ways to measure productivity and I think this is an essential tool to determine how we're doing and now with regards to corruption when one looks at Latin America with some exceptions actually Chile and Uruguay do pretty well in terms of corruption but in the other countries the perception of corruption is very high so this has to do with institutionality which is a topic we have dealt with here and also human capital how are people being educated people who are working at government institutions what type of people are they we really need to understand that nature a little better we have been thinking about direct foreign investment and we have taken up two main topics in order to determine our investment first the size of the country the rule of law, transparency and corruption these are the four points that we take into consideration what we're going to invest all these points do affect the capability to attract foreign investment and when we're talking about measuring we have many ways to measure the private sector has a way to measure the central bank has its way to measure we have our way to measure so what we're doing right now is we're trying to channel all this information and then arrive at a final conclusion somebody was talking about taxes the problem in Latin America is that we're not used to paying taxes so we have not been very disciplined at the end of the day and now it is very hard to become part of that fiscal discipline so it is necessary for us to embrace this fiscal discipline so we can contribute to development of our countries but also we must make sure that we don't make investing very expensive because at the end of the day that is very destructive so what are the essential factors when we talk about macroeconomy well the main the main ingredient is for the law to be met the law you have to respect the law so this is the most important thing in addition to all the other things that we are talking about I am part of the academia but I would not break my head over measurement because measuring productivity is a problem it is a headache to be honest even at a national level these measurements are taken incorrectly but there is something that I want to say if the company exports then it is a productive company if it exports without subsidies but what is the problem in Latin America we have very few companies that export with the exception of Mexico because Mexico broke the barrier but in South America if you do not count the sector of commodities then who else exports well in Brazil perhaps and who else well very few I was trying to assess what Endeavour does and other companies does the success or failure test that I would apply how many of these companies are exporting and I am afraid that as they stand today there are a few of them that will be exporting in five years but you are not adding value just because you are exporting so you need to understand the value chains and we also understand where the main bottlenecks are we did a study for PTP for agro-industrial sectors they export their competitive but the globalization of prices was limiting competitiveness at a global level and we need to understand where these value chains are in the value chain it's important obviously to export but we need to export understanding what we are doing if you leave if you put aside commodities we don't have too many exporting much and if you are not exporting perhaps it's because your product isn't very good so what can we do to avoid what happened with the raw material boom it came and went so what can we do if we don't have solid institutions and if we are not channeling the money correctly but I have the feeling that we need to be very ambitious in this situation so we have only 30 seconds what is the take home message that you would leave for people I think that we wasted an opportunity the the commodity boom was not really properly used by any of the countries and at first shock is also an opportunity there were things that we did not do during the boom so let us do those things now that we don't have a boom like the East Asian countries what do we do well we invest when there is growth we invest in the future we have to invest we are at levels of 20-22 percent we should go at least to 25 percent because that could trigger growth so 3-5 percent first of all we need to understand the situation and then we need to do the things that we have to do which have been diagnosed for years so that during the next time we will be able to make the best of it and what would you say transparency and consistency of the law not only during the next year but also during the next decade and consistency of the rules supply chain to invest in the supply chain I am not afraid to say that we should stick to commodities we have to stick to commodities we have to transform commodities not only as raw materials it should not be the end should not justify the meaning in other words I hope this was a productive meeting thank you so much for our guests and thank you so much for those who are looking at us through live stream