 Hi, I'm Melba Pearson and I'm running for Miami-Dade County State Attorney. Catherine Fernandez-Rundo, in her 27 years in office, has never once filed charges against a police officer for an on-duty killing. I'm running to bring common-sense reforms to our county and to stand up to bad cops and to corrupt elected officials who choose to harm our community. Before you vote on August 18, you need to learn the facts about Catherine Fernandez-Rundo and what you may hear may shock you and horrify you. Darren Raney was in custody at Dade Correctional Institute here in Miami-Dade County serving a sentence for cocaine possession. He was placed in a scalding hot shower that ranged in temperature from 160 to 180 degrees by four correctional officers. They left him there for nearly two hours as he begged and screamed and pleaded for his life. The officers laughed and left him in there to die. Catherine Fernandez-Rundo did not file charges against these correctional officers. If I was your state attorney, I would have filed charges. It is time for change. It is time for bad officers to be held accountable and the opponent has made it very clear that she cannot do so. I humbly ask for your vote and your support on August 18. Be sure to punch number 24 for change and accountability. Hello everyone. I am here with a phenomenal candidate running to be state attorney in Florida. Her name is Melba Pearson and she is challenging someone who has been in office for a very long time. Her name is Catherine Fernandez- Rundo and Melba is here to talk about our campaign. So Melba, thank you so much for coming on the program. Hey Mike, thank you so much for having me on. Super excited for our discussion today. Yeah, I'm excited because you have this really dynamic career. You were a prosecutor. You then went on to work for the ACLU. You were then instrumental in getting the Voting Rights Amendment passed on the ballot in Florida and now you're running to be state attorney. What catalyzed this run? A few things. So it started off with a series of high-profile failures by my opponent, including the Darren Rainey case, which was an African-American man who was basically boiled to death in a prison shower. And my opponent chose not to file charges in that case. Also the case of Jesus Menacal, who was a high alia, the city here in Dade County, police sergeant who was sexually assaulting women and underage girls. And yet again, no justice was found at all for the survivors of that horrible crime. So in 27 years, she's never filed charges against a police officer for non-duty killing. So as all of those failures just kept compounding, it just really just kept sitting on my heart that I need to do something. And what really finalized it was talking to people that I had hired that I had mentored over at the state attorney's office. They literally begged me to run. They were like, this is not the office you left. This is not the kind of environment that you had worked so hard to cultivate amongst those that you supervised. So we really need you for this change. And it was just like, whoa, OK, like that that really got me. And so that's why I decided to raise my hand and step up to this challenge. Yeah. And this really like hearing the details about the failings of your opponent, it's honestly like I don't think there's any words to really characterize the situation appropriately. I mean, the Darren Rainey case is so extreme. And, you know, it's an instance of state sanctioned abuse against someone. And if you don't prosecute someone who boiled a man alive, I don't know when you do prosecute like what is your job? Like at what point do you seek out justice? So can you talk a little bit more about the specifics? I know that viewers kind of got a taste of that with the ad that we intro at the beginning of this video, but talk more to the specifics about the Darren Rainey case. This to me, it should be like a national story. There should be national outrage, but we haven't heard very much. But in, you know, your city in your state, I know you're from Miami Dade. It is a big story. So tell us about the specifics, because anyone who hears about this, there's no way they're not going to be furious. Yeah, so it's a strange story from the standpoint of it's taken ebbs and flows. So it's gotten a little bit of attention and then it kind of died down. And then the attention came back and died down again. So now we're seeing renewed interest because I've made it one of the central issues of my campaign because I want people to understand when they actually have a case that they can attribute to someone that just smacks of injustice. That is going to motivate them to go to the polls. So I just want to make sure that the people are educated on this issue. So Darren Rainey was an African American man who was struggling with the disease of schizophrenia. He was using street level drugs to self medicate, which is not uncommon. For people who struggle with mental illness in the system, if they're not able to be connected to services or insurance, sometimes they use street level narcotics to be able to quiet the voices or deal with the symptoms. So he was in custody for cocaine possession and was serving a two year sentence, which is a separate issue in and of itself. But focusing on this case, he had an outburst and he had defecated on himself and the guards decided to place him in the shower to be able to clean off. Now, the thing about that shower, it came out through testimony later on in the investigation that this was known as a punishment shower. So when you went into that shower, you had no control over the knobs to, you know, change the temperature or anything like that. They placed you in the shower so it's not like you could open the shower and get out yourself, you were locked in. So you are literally confined to this tiny shower and you had no control over your life or your destiny during that time. He was placed in the shower that ranged in temperature from 160 to 180 degrees Fahrenheit. This was shower was so hot, the staff members at the prison used that shower to make ramen noodles. They would just literally stick the container in under the water and boom, there's noodles were cooked right off, like right off the top, right? So this was a known factor. Everyone knew that that shower was scalding hot. He was left in there for two hours. And during that time, he screamed and he begged for his life and he kept saying to the officers, I'm sorry, I'll be good. Just take me out. I'm sorry. And they laughed and they're like, Oh, is it hot enough for you yet? Are you clean yet? And they left him in there for two hours. So of course he passes away. And so then the cover up after that was, but was it really, you know, a homicide or did he die accidentally and then all of this spirals? Now, let's keep in mind, this case happened in 2012. It wasn't until the Miami Herald did an investigative story and they basically just did series after series of interviewing witnesses who had been writing, you know, fellow inmates had been writing the state attorney to say, this man was murdered. We are willing to testify. What do you need from us? This is injustice. These people need to be held accountable. And she just turned to deaf ear because I guess, you know, prisoners don't matter. Right? So when it ended up happening is after this expose series by the Miami Herald, then an investigation happened. So then at that point, there was an autopsy. How many years later, you know, at that point, they were like, well, let's see what we can do. And after a long investigation and we're now looking at, you know, five years basically in total, my opponent releases a report that says, yeah, much as this was terrible, there's no charge as I can file here because the medical examiner came back with a finding saying, oh, well, this was accidental. He kind of died from schizophrenia. Like it just, that whole report in and of itself is just an abomination, but be that as it may, you move forward with what you have. That's what you do as a prosecutor, right? You look at the evidence and you figure out whether or not there's a way to deliver justice to the families and the people who are impacted. And so my opinion, after looking at all the facts, looking at, you know, the testimony that was had, the video evidence, the medical examiner report, I came to the conclusion after being a prosecutor for 16 years, handling homicide. So I know these cases inside and out that a manslaughter charge could have been filed. So I still look at this as a huge failure by my opponent to try to find justice for this family. And then on the same token, send a clear message to law enforcement like, you can't kill people. Like it's not okay. You can't just kill people with impunity, especially when you have a situation of somebody who's clearly helpless. He's not offering you violence. He's not, you know, trying to attack you or something. You placed him in a shower because he had a mental health issue. That's not okay. And we have to take a stand on that. So that's, you know, the fight still continues from the standpoint of when I'm elected, I'm going to review that case again and see if there's still the ability to bring charges because there is no what's called statute of limitations. There's no time limit on homicide in the state of Florida and manslaughter is included in that. So I'm going to see if we can still file charges. It's going to be tough this many years later, but we'll see if that's an option. Yeah, I think that just that you have the inclination to want to look into this further. I mean, that's a human response. Like to when you, when you explain these details, just the fact that there is a punishment shower alone, I think should outrage everyone. But I mean, aside from the fact that, you know, there's the human element, it's heartbreaking, you know, if we don't actually get accountability and guards are allowed to get away with this, then I mean, what else can they can basically get away with anything? That's kind of the sentiment and that's the worry. So I wanted to talk to you about your time as a prosecutor. You have a different philosophy than what I think a lot of people perceive prosecutors to, you know, think of in terms of justice, you focus more on rehabilitation, not criminalization. Talk through why you think that is the best approach. I mean, I think my viewers, they would agree with you. But like as a prosecutor from the legal perspective, I think your standpoint, really, it's important here. Yeah. So for me, it is about making sure that justice is equal and accessible and real to everybody in Miami Dade County. That's my goal. And that's going to be my guiding principle when I'm elected next week on August 18th. But for me, it's about, you know, making sure that we're also addressing the root causes of crime. Because too often people are like, I just throw them in jail and that's supposed to fix things. Jail is not a magic fix, right? And especially if you're sending people into custody without programming. So what ends up happening? I know this is not unique to Florida and it happens in other states. But when the legislature and the governor is like, OK, we need to balance the budget. We need to cut funding. The first thing they do is slash prison budgets and they slash all of the beneficial programs that are community based that can help people or the funding to those programs. And why that's so problematic is that these programs address the root causes of crime. If you're not addressing the addiction when the person gets out of prison, the first thing they're going to do is go get high. And that already now starts to spiral all over again, right? If you're not addressing the mental illness, making sure that they have being connected to services or connected with a team that's going to help them manage their symptoms, we're going to have the same issues over and over again. If we don't address the fact that people may not have vocational training or may not know how to apply for a job from the simple standpoint of, you know, let's say you're a survivor of human trafficking. You've been on the streets, you know, working in that life for many years. You maybe have a GED. How do you go apply for job? Like, how do you even message the fact that you've been out of the workforce for five years because you were human trafficked, right? Like, but you need someone to help you with that. And if we're not funding folks that can help in those ways, then we're not addressing the problem. And we're going to keep seeing the same issues of people coming into the system, offending, reoffending, because they have no other option. So let's do what we can to address the root issue. And then we have safer communities on the back end. And that's a better community for everyone. And also, that's the other way to make sure the system is equitable, because oftentimes what you see people with needs when they come into the system, let me give you an example of two Johnny's, right? You have Johnny that lives in Coral Gables, lives with a wealthy family, and he gets arrested for breaking into a car to feed his addiction, right? And then you have Johnny who lives in Overtown, which is an urban core neighborhood, right, under resource, bad schools, and he gets arrested for breaking into a car for the same addiction, right? Well, Johnny from Coral Gables, his family sends him to a lovely rehab facility up in Delray Beach, where he's on the beach, he plays the guitar, he does yoga, he meditates, and 30 days later, you know, he's in a much better place, right? And so he comes back to court, he's in a suit, he's all clean, the judge is like, wow, Johnny, you've done so well. You know, I'm going to dismiss charges against you, or I'm going to reduce the plea that's been offered to make sure that you're able to go live a productive life. But then you look at Johnny from Overtown. Johnny from Overtown doesn't have those same resources. He doesn't have a family that's going to send him to a lovely rehab facility. He doesn't have the money to be able to bond out of jail before his case comes to trial. So he sits in custody, and then the judge looks at him and says, you're disheveled, you're in an orange jumpsuit, you know, I don't see a future for you, I'm going to sentence you to three years in prison. So how has his addiction been addressed? It hasn't. He's going to prison. He's now going to have a criminal conviction. And then when he gets out, it's going to be almost impossible to get a decent paying job because everyone's afraid to hire somebody with a criminal background. What do you think is going to happen to Johnny? It's going to end up being a downward spiral, as opposed to Johnny from Coral Gables, who has now been given a second chance. So that is the inequity that we see in the system. And that's why it's so important for this programming to be robustly funded and to be able to help people who don't have the same needs as others. Yeah, and I think that that is a really important approach for you to take as a prosecutor, right? I mean, just on, you know, a normal level, like if you don't know much about the law, then you can attribute the recidivism rate to people just making bad decisions. But like you alluded to earlier, you're not addressing the root causes, and you speak to these differences and why people end up, you know, ending in this pipeline and they can't get out. It's like a cycle that's never ending because of the system itself. But I'm curious, in your opinion, why do other prosecutors not take the same approach? They take a more punitive approach, and they don't actually focus on, you know, rehabilitation. I mean, you can't psychoanalyze people. But in your opinion, like what are the institutional mechanisms that kind of cause people to be more harsh in administering, you know, the law and in your opinion, you know, as prosecutors? Yeah, so a couple things. First off, there is an age thing, because if you look at some of these offices across the country, there are prosecutors, for instance, untaken on an incumbent who's been there for 27 years. You know, in the county north of me, there's an open election for state attorney, where the state attorney there is retiring after 44 years. So when you think about what the world was like 30 years ago, right? There was barely any internet. There's definitely no Siri. There is no like Apple, you know, iPhone or anything like that, right? And the common mentality back then was tough on crime. You got to send people to prison. You know, that's the way you toughen people up. And you know, you've got to hold people accountable and all that. And so we've evolved as a country. We've evolved in our thinking and we've also evolved in understanding the human mind to realize again, if you don't address the root cause, you're going to have the same issues over and over again. And that tough on crime mentality is how we got here with the concept of mass incarceration, because I grew up in New York in the 80s when the crack epidemic was in full swing. And I can assure you, nobody looked at the crack epidemic as a public health crisis. It was viewed. The only way to fix it was to incarcerate people. So whether you're struggling with addiction, you were, you know, the Frank Lucas, you know, top dog drug dealer of them all, or if you were the middle guy in between that just sells a little bit because his baby's hungry, all of you were going to prison. It didn't matter. So when you have all of these prosecutors who have been in office for so long, they still reflect that unevolved mentality that comes from that Reagan era tough on crime mentality. The second thing that I think causes people to be so, so harsh and so punitive is public sentiment. So while public sentiment is shifting, if you're in a more conservative area, you may find that people again have that Reagan era mentality. And so you're afraid like you listen to your answer to the voters, right? Like if you're a state attorney, that's an elected position with the exception of like three or four jurisdictions where you're appointed. But the vast majority of prosecutors are elected. So you don't want to do something that's going to upset your voters and then you're going to be out of a job. So there's that fear of coming, you don't want to look soft on crime. So you got to come out tough on crime, right? So the narrative that has definitely been shifting in favor of the progressive prosecutors around the country is to talk about being smart on crime, talk about rehabilitation and restoration, talking about making communities whole. Like that sort of that more therapeutic approach that is definitely resonating with a lot more people and it's starting to spread, especially when you think about if it's your family member or loved one in the system, you want to see them treated fairly and you want to see them get help so they don't do it again. So I think again, we're evolving as a country, but there's still some pockets and some holdouts of people who firmly believe prison is a solution to everything. Yeah, and it is like, I do see what you're speaking to in terms of like this evolution. I think that a lot of people aren't just changing their minds, but people are becoming aware of the humanity of prisoners for the first time because we've seen it portrayed in, you know, in media, in movies that criminals, they're just they're inherently bad. There's something about them that drives them to do bad things. And now we've gone so far in the opposite direction that we're talking about, you know, voting rights for felons. And even if that's still controversial to a lot of people, you know, recognizing the humanity of people in prison is something that I think I wouldn't have expected yet, you know, with how how cynical, you know, I become when I see some of the things that Americans espouse on television and some of the views we still have to see kind of this move. It is encouraging. And, you know, you have been on, you know, the front lines fighting to make sure that, you know, people who have been incarcerated, they have the right. So can you talk through the voting rights amendment that you were instrumental in passing? Because this to me, seeing that like the the outcome in the 2018 election in Florida was puzzling to so many people because on one hand you see them elect Ron DeSantis. But on another hand, they vote to, you know, re-enfranchise felons. Talk through, you know, what you think maybe was the key thing that led to people changing their minds. Yeah, so, you know, first off, I have to say that criminal justice reform as a general premise has become a bipartisan issue, right? At first it was like, oh my gosh, it's just a liberal agenda, it's just the Democrats or whatever. But, you know, you find more conservative voices now speaking out in favor of criminal justice reform because they see the economic benefit. Because when it comes to lost wages or because people are survivors of a crime and they have to take off from work to go to court and testify and all of that, they see that. They look at the cost of incarceration and how much it costs to keep the average person in prison, you know, each and every day or for, you know, on an annual basis, that again is a lot of money. So they're seeing that waste of taxpayer dollars and they skew more on the side of reform as seen by the Federal First Step Act and in Florida, the Florida First Step Act. So, turning to amendment four, that was probably the highlight of my professional career. So I joined the ACLU of Florida in early 2017 and at that point, we were reviewing the language to make sure that it could go up to the Supreme Court in Florida to make the decision if the language is good enough to go on the ballot, that the voters won't be confused and, you know, that the subject was clear and all that. So I helped with that. Then for the next few months, it was about voter education because we had to get a million petitions signed to be able to get it on the ballot because it was a citizens initiative. So we had to educate folks as to why they should sign the petition. Fine, we got the million signatures. Awesome. Boom. It's on the ballot. Now it's educate everyone as to why they should vote yes. And so part of the messaging was around second chances and that if someone has paid their debt to society, then they should be able to vote and have all the benefits of rejoining society. And also, this amendment was bringing us in line with the rest of the country because at the time we were only one of four states that has a permanent ban on voting by people with felony convictions. In the complete other side of it, Maine and Vermont allow you to vote while you're in custody. So if you're in jail or in prison, you can vote. And Washington DC is considering a similar measure. So, you know, again, we needed to get in line with the rest of the country and our system was so politicized because it depended on what governor you got, whether or not your application for clemency or to get your rights back was going to be granted. And we had a Republican governor, well, we have had Republican governors for as long as I've been here, which is like 25 years. But anyway, two governors, three governors ago, Governor Chris had basically given the right to vote back to like more people than anyone else. I think he gave back in his 70, in his 70 or eight years in office, maybe something like 100 or 150,000 people their right to vote back. And then Governor Scott, who was the governor, you know, during that time, only gave it back to like, you know, a few thousand, like, you know, four digits versus six, right? So, and he was more conservative and just was not, you know, interested in giving people their rights back. So because this system was so arbitrary, you know, we needed that, that voter initiative so that people knew, like, listen, did I finish my sentence? Am I good to go? Okay, boom. I'm going to go register to vote. So when we explained that to people and explained how it was arbitrary, explained how it was out of touch with the rest of the country, explained how if people were, you know, connected to their community, able to have a voice, they're less likely to commit more crimes. So voting rights is directly tied to reduced recidivism. So people really got engaged around this issue. It became a nonpartisan issue and it just became an issue of right and wrong. So 65% of Floridians voted yes on amendment four, which was amazing. I was there on election night with a pass. I was heartbroken that, you know, Andrew Gillum was not elected governor, but be that as it may, you know, like, we got one victory, right? So then in January of 19, it was my honor and privilege to go with several returning citizens for them to register to vote for the first time and to watch grown men cry because this is the first time for some of them in their entire lives that they would be able to vote. Others first time in 20 years. And so that was a beautiful experience. And then today, I had the honor of, you know, as part, I'm on the campaign trail and I was going to one early voting place. But I joined a march of returning citizens who marched to an early polling place to be able, again, some of them for the first time to be able to cast their vote. So to be able to do the entire thing full circle as just has just been amazing and so fulfilling. Yeah, that's incredible. Okay, so since you're here, I got to pick your brain. Just nationally speaking, I know that basically these Black Lives Matter protests have really, I think, taken normal Americans who haven't been paying attention and made them see the urgency and necessity of systemic reform. Like the things that are taking place, the injustices in our system, it's at the institutional level. And we have to make a lot of changes to make our society more equitable. So in your view, this is a loaded question. But what do you think are some key things that we can do to actually make our criminal justice system more equitable? I know a lot of people lately have been talking about, you know, cash bail and ending that, but it goes deeper than that. So in your view, what are some things that people and activists really should be focusing on? Yeah, so first off, I think it's really critical that activists focus on elections because we're never going to see the change we seek unless we have elected officials who reflect our values. Period and a story. We can protest as the day is long. We can post on social media 19 times a day. It doesn't matter if we don't have people sitting in those seats that will put the pressure on and respond to the public's request and concerns, we're not going to move forward. So making sure that, you know, we're keeping an eye on elections that we're supporting progressive candidates when they run because too often it's like, oh, so and so is running. Yeah, that's cool. I'll like her post on Facebook. I'll like his post on Facebook. I'll like their post on Instagram. But did you send them any money? Like there's Act Blue. There's all these things where you can just use your an app on your phone and just pay right away. Like money is what unfortunately drives campaigns in this country. So if you're not investing in candidates who reflect your values, again, you're not going to be able to see elected officials that reflect your values. So that pre-work has to be done where you're supporting candidates and also building a bench. So run for office yourself. It's hard. It ain't easy. I'm not going to lie to you. But sometimes, you know, it's one of those things where, all right, nobody else is going to do it. Fine, I'll do it, right? Because again, we need people in this struggle who are educated, who are passionate about these issues and want to make a change. Also, I think we need to get more engaged. And again, it's still talking politically and around elections, you know, with your county commission, with your mayor, with your city council, because again, they hold the power when it comes to making changes like civilian oversight, like deciding how much money goes to different social service, you know, organizations or groups and how much money goes to the police, right? And I'm not going to get into the whole debate. Should we defend the police or not? But the people who have the power to either defund or reallocate resources or whatever, all sit on the dais at the county commission at the city council or in the mayor's office. So again, that's why it all ties back to elections and voting, right? So those are the things that I really want to see people focused on. I want folks to get really engaged in the electoral process because that's where the change is going to come. Yeah, and all of them knew that. That's why they fought so hard for us to have the right to vote. That's why they marched. That's why they, you know, endured being bitten by dogs, you know, walking in the scalding heat in August and in Alabama or Mississippi. You know, this is why, so that we can make real systemic change. Yeah, yeah. On that note, what can we do to make your victory a short thing? I think you're going to kill it. But what can we do as viewers? If we don't live in the state of Florida, how can we get involved and make sure that you are able to beat this incumbent who doesn't seem to care about justice? Yeah, so one of the key things you can do if you can, and you have the bandwidth, donate. This week is the end of the fundraising for this election period and a story. So this is my last opportunity to raise money. My website is www.melbaformiami.com MelbaFORmiami.com. If you end up coming in after the fundraising deadline, then one of the ways you can help is just to amplify the message. Follow me on socials at MelbaFORmiami and like, share, and comment on our posts. Make sure to share it to your networks. So again, because at the end of the day, everybody knows somebody in Miami. Everybody does, right? So if it's not you directly, it's your cousin, it's your best friend who knows somebody. So that's how we spread the word and encourage people to vote. The election is August 18th. We're doing early voting this week until Sunday and then election day is next Tuesday. So definitely get the word out. And if you want a phone bank and want to volunteer to phone bank, you can do that from out of state as well or out of county. So again, hit us up on our website, www.melbaformiami.com. And of course, if you're in Miami, vote number 24, Melba Pearson. Well, thank you so much, Melba. You are one of the people in this country who is truly making a difference in your state. And I think that everyone needs to pay attention to this. It's not just about Floridians. Like, if you are able to be successful in Florida, then other people can emulate your model of success in other states. So that's why I think this is so important. This is why I'm invested. And we're all rooting for you. So thank you so much for coming on the program. Thank you, Mike. I appreciate it. And take good care. You too.