 Well, welcome and thank you to all of you that have joined us live or watching the recording. We are so glad that you've carved out some time for today's episode and conversation, as well as for your own professional and personal growth, because this is a thought leader episode and we are so excited to have Tracy Vandermak joining us. And if you joined us for the Chitty Chat Chat, you learned that Tracy is a CFRE and that is a certified fundraising executive. Tracy is also the president of Phil.com or Phil.com and I'm really excited to have you here today talking about nonprofit leadership strategies. So before we dive into this very robust conversation, Julie and I want to make sure that you know who we are if we have not quite met yet. So thank you to Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy for creating this opportunity two years ago to remain in conversation and of service to our community and in conversation. I'm Jarrett Ransom, honored to serve along as a co-host. Also your nonprofit nerd CEO of the Raven Group. And these episodes and conversations are really driven by the support and investment of the sponsors you see right in front of you. I always recommend that you check them out, although not now, because you don't want to miss anything Tracy is going to share, but do check them out today because these companies are doing great work to help you do more good work and that is exactly why they are here. And again, we are just so excited to have them as part of the conversation. Tracy, welcome back and thank you so very much for joining us today. Absolutely, I'm happy to be here and especially to talk about this topic going into the new year. You know, Tracy, it's such an interesting thing. I feel like in the beginning of all this tumult, we were just trying to, you know, hold things together. And as we have navigated these pandemics and there are more than just the COVID issue, the social injustice, economics, political, civil and social unrest, leadership has really now started to be discussed. It should have probably been discussed a little bit sooner, but I feel like we're just now really talking about it or we maybe evaluating it. And I was so interested with an article that you wrote on nonprofit non or excuse me, yeah, nonprofit pro magazine, right? Non-profit pro magazine. And it was about leadership and moving it forward into this next year. So we wanted to get you on to talk about this to kind of give us a sense of how do we remove the clutter and the noise and focus in on really what's important. And so I'm thrilled to have you, you know, talk to us about this today. First thing you say we as leaders have got to be evaluating our missions and our service delivery methods, not just in crisis, but in a holistic way. And I'm fascinated by that. We should be doing this. Absolutely, absolutely. And I think that we've the as a nonprofit industry, we've been sort of going along on an even keel for quite some time. And one positive result of some of the very difficult things that have been happening over the last two years as is that it's created this catalyst for us to really take a look at what we're doing in the industry and what we should be doing in the industry. So as you said, with leaders, it really has to start with them, you know, them looking at their organization and evaluating whether they are. Still delivering on the right mission, delivering on it with the right people and bringing the right people to the conversation to determine if their mission is addressing root causes or if it is just putting out fires as they come along. So this tumultuous time that we've been going through really has has given us a launching pad to strategically make our organizations even better in twenty twenty two and beyond. One of the things I've said, Tracy, and I'm sure you thought of this, Julia, Suni, Tracy mentioned it. I have been saying for so long that our sector at large has been long overdue for a shake up. And I love so much. What you just said is that this opportunity has served as a catalyst to do things differently and in ways in which we should have been doing, perhaps, all along. And that to me is inspiring. I have seen so much innovation and creates a come out of truly a default situation, right? It is time for us to truly evaluate our mission and to see how we are delivering our services. Is this, in fact, the way in which we should be doing it? Or is there a whole another way that we haven't even considered? So learning, you know, hearing that from you and learning that from you. I'd be curious to hear how you have seen this put into action throughout these last two years. It's actually been very motivating that I've worked with and heard from a number of nonprofits who spent the last two years doing short term strategic planning that they weren't expecting to do. You know, they had always been in the three to five year realm. But during pandemic times that that don't appear to be over yet. I've seen a lot of organizations start to do 12 to 16 month strategic plans as a transition. And while they're doing that, they're they're evaluating their capacity, they're doing capacity building to determine if they have the right resources to be able to deliver the services in the best way possible. You know, it's it's fascinating to hear you say that because I'm curious, did you see this happening quickly? Or have you seen this now? People are working on this. And the reason why I ask this question is that in the very beginning and this happens a lot in a crisis, people were like, we just need to hit the pause button. We need to step back and then we'll reengage. And then we saw another sector that was like, heck, no, we're leaning in and we're going to go hard because we've got bigger problems that are ahead. And I'm wondering kind of like with your amazing ability to survey the landscape, what did you see and how are you seeing that move us forward? The way you just described it is very much what I've seen that. There are a lot of smaller organizations that maybe are more volunteer led or have fewer paid staff. We're the ones at the beginning that it seemed to me we're wanting to put the brakes on and they just wanted to wait to see what was going to happen. And the, you know, the mid to larger size nonprofits were saying, no, what that what this is going to do is expand the needs for our services in different ways that we weren't expecting and funding that we've been relying on say government funding, certain foundations that we've been relying on for years is now switching over to pandemic relief, and that's not going to end anytime soon. So it sort of went from that early adopters group of we know right away, we need to evaluate what we're doing. And identify whether this is a good time for us to begin an evolution if that's what we decided we want to do with our organization. And then there are those who this year are coming to realize that things are changing and it may be the redirection of government funds to covid related projects or nonprofits that's the the catalyst for them deciding to do it. But regardless of how we do it, you mentioned the different types of of catalysts over the last couple of years, not only just the pandemic, but also social justice and conversations are being had now at a level that never would have happened before. And that doesn't mean they're easy or that they're smooth in any way, shape or form, but we're at least having them. And I think that is a big part of what leaders are going to need to be willing to do as we go forward is not only evaluate their organization to determine if their mission is still relevant or if there are other groups with the advent of social enterprise, social philanthropists, you know, different types of hybrid organizations. You know, are there groups now that could be more effective in doing that particular item or serving that particular group of people? And if so, what is the nonprofit leader willing to do to make sure that they transition into something that remains relevant and needed and useful over time and not just continue to do something because we've been doing it since the Gilgit Asia philanthropy at Carnegie and Rockefeller. As absolutely. And you caught my attention when you mentioned the funding practices and I'm sure there have been, you know, expansive opportunities. Many of us, you know, were very grateful to receive some of the covid relief funding. But I'm curious if you could talk to us now, Tracy, about these funding practices and perhaps what it might look look like for some new programming. Absolutely. And the funding practices, one thing that I have been seeing, and I don't know if the two of you have experienced it as well, is that nonprofits, some of them at least are realizing that this is the time that they need to formalize and professionalize the way that they raise funds for their mission delivery of their organization and that they need to diversify funding streams. Yeah, we a lot of us have been saying that for a very long time, but this last two years has really brought that home to boards of directors, executive directors, CEOs. So in terms of how we fund the programs and what programs those would be, there's a lot of new or evolving type of technologies and theories of raising funds out there that are in sometimes in concert with public companies like public private partnerships, some of them, as I mentioned, are venture venture philanthropy. Some of them are increasing earned income in addition to philanthropic dollars. So there's there's a lot of opportunities that sometimes nonprofits are resistant to, because we're we're very we have a very ingrained in us that philanthropy is the only way to do something and that if it isn't philanthropy, it isn't. It isn't that, you know, the right way to do it. It isn't I'm going to go as far as say it isn't pure enough. Exactly, Julia, that's that's exactly. And I hate to say that, but I think there's a I think there's a a rudimentary concept of what is OK to suffer through what is OK to sacrifice for being innovative to Jared's point, has not been a badge of honor across the nonprofit sector. It has not the nonprofit sector has been operating in survival mode for as long as I can remember. And survival mode is is not the way to get anything truly accomplished. We should be budgeting for and aiming for the optimal versions of our organizations, not just the, you know, what can we do to get by and and how little can we spend to make this mission happen. So in terms of leadership going forward, it really is a a whole philosophical change for some organizations that aren't already doing that. So the fact that we're having this conversation is wonderful because it shows that there are the conversations are at least happening and people are considering it. That doesn't mean that it's easy and all of a sudden some nonprofits will say, let's embrace all of these different ways of doing things. But if it gets different groups looking at some of the different options and evaluating whether something might be good for them, that's great. And I would use cryptocurrency as an example of that, taking donations by cryptocurrency. You know, of course, that's not a a method of fundraising. It's just a method of accepting donations. But it is something that so many nonprofits are looking at, but don't necessarily understand. So it is one of the things that we hear coming up in conversations in boardrooms, and this is the perfect time to be looking at those things and determining, you know, what we believe is is going to last over time and what is sort of a quick flash in the pan. And if we're evaluating those and paying close enough attention, then we can make sure that we're available to potential supporters on those different platforms, whether it's social media, whether it's accepting donations by cryptocurrency, whether it's broadening what we consider volunteer opportunities to be, it could be any number of those things. I love that you mentioned crypto because that has come up in conversation quite a bit across the nation and here right here in our episodes. Just for giving Tuesday, over two point eight million dollars was raised alone in cryptocurrency. And really, I hadn't heard that number, two point eight million. Absolutely. And and that is, you know, definitely a way of diversifying our revenue. But I'd love to go back to what you mentioned, earned revenue, because we could have a very deep philosophical conversation about that, of whether it's pure enough, you know, to Julia's bold statement. And I have seen earned revenue really increase by way of of agencies and leadership starting to say, I think it's time for us to consider that. I've seen that over the last two years. And I don't know, you know, why we haven't before. But as you had said much earlier in today's episode is, you know, this has given us an opportunity to serve as a catalyst for things that we should have perhaps been considering in the past and earned revenue, you know, other ways of accepting donations and gifts such as cryptocurrency. Now is really a good time, I think, to evaluate and hearing you say that, Tracy, as a thought leader on today's episode is perfect timing because we're wrapping up this year. We're starting next year. And we all have this opportunity, you know, to be to be innovative. One of the things that has definitely come up and you've both mentioned this already is truly that social unrest. And when it comes to, you know, justice, diversity, equity, inclusion and really looking at how our community now is approaching these difficult conversations, talk to us what you have seen in your practice in regards to, you know, DEI over the last couple of years, over the last couple of years, there's definitely been an evolution in the types of conversations people are having. And just anecdotally, one thing that I noticed over the last two years is that that's for-profit companies, nonprofit companies. We're all putting out these big and bold statements about supporting social justice, supporting equity, racial and pay equity and dedicating themselves to partnering with people in communities that they serve as opposed to making decisions in a in a boardroom vacuum. There's there's a number of things to consider in this in the DEI realm. Now that all those bold statements have been out there for a year or so, what we're looking for is the follow through. So there is a great opportunity here that to to act on all of those great words, all of those pronouncements that happened during what I guess you could call the summer of civil unrest last year. Now is the time to act on those. And that, at least in my experience in in some of the groups that I've encountered, that is where they're stumbling a little bit, is how to put into action what they were talking about. And one thing I as a as a non-profit consultant make sure to do is I have partnered with a number or at least nowhere to go to partner with a number of BIPOC consultants who can work directly with nonprofits and board of boards of directors to help them evaluate their staffing model, their board of directors, their investment policies, because investors are now looking at what your investment policies are and determining whether that fits with their moral code, if you will, if they feel you're a good investment that way. So for for my part, anyway, I try to address it when it comes up with organizations, but then be very careful and very thoughtful or strategic about bringing in other professionals and experts who have more lived experience and knowledge than I do to really talk to these nonprofits. And sometimes it can work really well with the tag team of two people who who come at the discussion from different directions. You know, I think it's really an important issue. And as we're talking about leadership and this is one of those things that somebody has to lead on this, you know, it's to your point, you know, putting out statements and posting little signs in your lobby great at one point, but now we need to go deeper on this and have those conversations as uncomfortable as they are. I find them I was just in a board meeting last week, incredibly liberating to have some of these discussions. And it is where we need to be. Yes. And leadership has got to jump on this. It has to be driven from the top down. I mean, assuming you you're not a grassroots horizontally set up organization. If you're the traditional sort of hierarchical nonprofit, it really does have to start with the board and the executive director because, as we all know, many nonprofits, if they are diverse at all, it tends to be there. Their staff staffing model tends to be diverse at the bottom where it's wide and there's a lot of people and then it gets less diverse as it goes up. And the pay equity also tends to get a little bit more skewed as you go up that pyramid. So it definitely has to be dedication by the drivers, by the leaders of the organization to say, yes, we are willing to do this. We're willing to listen, convene the right people, listen, not only make room at the table, the proverbial table, but make everybody welcome there and give everybody an equal voice or even give maybe a little bit more of a voice to the people that you're bringing in whose perspectives we've not heard before. And from one of you asked earlier, what am I seeing with the nonprofits directly? I don't know if the two of you are seeing this, but there may be a bit of attuning of board members as we go through this process of if we're evolving to an organization that is dedicated to diversity, equity and inclusion, but we have board members who are not in the space where they're ready to have that conversation. It may be that as we identify and recruit new board members, we're looking for a different profile of board member that can help forward that important piece of the organization. Yeah, I will speak to that. And I have seen that. And for me, you know, it's not necessarily a bad thing. I see it as a great opportunity to provide space for the right next board member. And one of the things we've said before on this show is, you know, when you when you see and know one board, you see and know one board because they're all quite different. And, you know, just as we are as individuals, we're all quite different. And I do think that there are so many different iterations of boards. And I talk often about your one point oh board, your two point oh board, really continuing to evolve. And so to have this opportunity and to really have the leadership internally, as well as the board to make the statement and to go further, as you said, to take, you know, steps and actions towards a lasting impact. That's where we are now. And that is a way I have seen some of that some of that turnover. And for me, I see it as a great opportunity. You know, absolutely. I would say the number of questions that are coming in to the nonprofit show, especially, you know, for our Friday Ask and Answer episodes, we're having people ask, OK, how do we move board members off? Right. And that to me is very interesting. It's like, well, you know, we think we have a policy about term limits, but we haven't really exercised them or, you know, so people really realizing that, yeah, we have an aging of our board leadership across this country, which we have across many sectors and aging labor force. So that's not, you know, a shocker. But we're seeing more and more organizations that are saying, how do we steward this forward? And, you know, how do we assess who we have? How do we assess who we don't have? And then kind of putting that into place, you know, the nomination committees that we a lot of times don't even really acknowledge are starting to have to reform, re-engage and not just say, OK, who do you know around the table? You think would be a good guy, right? And, you know, we're having to have new discussions. And I think that's very, very exciting. I really do. And I think it's about time. So we need to be championing this. I love Tracy, so many of these ideas that you've had as a way to not only finish up the year strongly, but to really look at what we can be doing in 2022. Still so much unknown out there. But so much opportunity, I think, comes when there is uncertainty. It's not easy. It's filled with stress. But there are there's opportunity, I think, absolutely. Really, really interesting. Tracy, tell us again before we head off where we can find that article that you wrote that was so beautifully constructed and really led us to have this this conversation. Has this been posted to the blog page on your website yet? It has. You can find it on the blog page of my website, links to nonprofit pro. OK. Or you can also go to nonprofit pro dot com. And as of right now, it's still on the home page. So you can get to it there. But you can also just type in my name to get to it. But yes, thank you for for letting me share some of the information from the article, because, you know, I think if if we're having the right conversations and helping nonprofits take a look at themselves and evaluate how they can be better in the future, then we're setting ourselves up for some great success next year and for the years to come. So thank you for letting me be a part of the conversation. No, I love it. And I think you're right. I think we need to understand what our leaders need to be thinking about and moving forward on as opposed to just ping ponging back from crisis to crisis, taking some of that reflective time and saying, OK, this is how we are going to ignore the issue and we're going to be stronger. And so I love your comments. You know, we can only scratch the surface of your wonderful, wonderful writing. So I really encourage everyone to check out Tracy's site. Phil slash or Phil hyphen com dot com Phil hyphen com dot com. I mean, that is confusing as possible for everyone. Hey, that's OK. That's OK. But, you know, the the point of this is we need to be more strategic and we have so many great voices in our sector. Tracy Van Der Neck, you are one and we are delighted that we could share this time with you and all of our viewers on the nonprofit show. Again, I'm Julia Patrick. I've been joined today by the nonprofit nerd herself, Jared Ransom, CEO of the Raven Group. We want to thank all of our sponsors who allow us to have this amazing, amazing conversation day in and day out. As we end this year, very shortly, we will have blown past that 450th mark of shows of episodes, which is an amazing thing. The only national daily show dedicated to the nonprofit sector. And we are here because of these folks. So we say, thank you, thank you with so much gratitude. And thank you to Tracy Van Der Neck. I say this every once in a while, not all the time. But when I get to hear from people like you, Tracy, it gives me hope for the future. It gives me hope that we have thought leadership out there that is helping us navigate these tough, tough conversations and tough times. Thank you for that. I really appreciate it. Hey, it's been wonderful. Jared, you want to take us out? Absolutely. But before we do, I want to make sure that we honor someone that wrote in to say, thank you for a very thoughtful conversation. So, Tracy, I agree. Thank you. Absolutely. What you've shared with us today has definitely landed and it's been timely. Thank you so much for sharing your valuable time and your expertise with us. And for all of you that could join us live or found the recording, it will always be around in the interwebs. So thanks again. We end every episode by asking all of you to please stay well so you can do well. So thanks again, Tracy, and we'll see everybody back here tomorrow.