 Welcome to Global Connections. I'm your host, Carlos Juarez, and it gives me great pleasure today to welcome two young leaders who are joining us today from Mexico. There are two students, college students who I'll introduce in a moment, and they're gonna help unravel and share some good perspectives on what's happening in US-Mexico relations. Also maybe some foreign perspectives on the US elections as we've been going through this dramatic and historic set of events here these past few weeks. What does it mean from the outside world? So we'll have some informed perspective there. And so joining me today, I'm very happy to welcome two students. First of all, we have Carlos Torres, or maybe formerly he's Carlos Francisco Torres Morales, but we'll just say Carlos. Carlos, thank you for joining us and welcome to Global Connections. I'll introduce, I'll have you say a few words in just a moment. I also wanna welcome our second guest, who is Max Figueroa, and Max is another student, a college student in Mexico. So let me first begin with you, Max. Tell us briefly, where is it you're from? And you're a student in Puebla, but introduce yourself briefly to our audience here. Of course, hello, good afternoon. Thank you for the invitation. My name is Max Figueroa, Max Miliano Figueroa, you can call me Jesus Max. I'm from Puebla, Mexico, and I'm a student of the fifth semester of international relations at UDLAB. Hey, and that's the Universidad de las Américas Puebla. The University of the Américas Puebla is a private university in Puebla, Mexico. A very, I could say, maybe globally connected university. These are two examples of Mexican students, but who obviously have a good knowledge and understanding of global issues, of the English language that allows us to continue this dialogue. Our other joining us today, Carlos, welcome to the show, Carlos. Where are you from? Thank you. It's a pleasure for me to be here with you today. My name is Carlos Torres. I'm from the University of La Meracruz, Mexico, and I'm a student of the fifth semester in the Universidad de las Américas Puebla of international relations too. Well, again, thank both of you for joining me today. And I wanna quickly just turn, we've seen now in these last few weeks a very historic event. The election in the United States held November 3rd, and you are seeing it from the outside as observers, obviously as neighbors to the South of the US as students who are learning about global politics and economics. And needless to say, it's been a roller coaster. It's been confusing, puzzling. Even today, here we are two weeks plus after the election, the loser has not conceded and continues to sort of challenge the outcome. But nonetheless, it is a transition happening, but more than that, let me begin, maybe I just wanna open first on some personal reflections. As you look back, you've been watching this for some time now, like all of us, it culminated in the election, but we are still waiting for the final outcome. Moreover, as even Americans learn every four years, United States has this rather peculiar indirect election of the presidency, right? And maybe just how does all this seem to you from your perspective? Maybe starting with Carlos, give us just some personal thoughts. What does it look like from your vantage point? Well, for me, the American elections is some sort of continuation about democracy and this political system and the founding fathers have implemented since the beginning, and there is something different that we do here in Mexico, that when we vote here in Mexico, basically you vote for the candidate you want in that case, but in the case of the United States, you are telling your delegate which candidate you are telling this person your vote goes to. And in that sense, if you are a voter of the Democratic Party in, let's say, Texas, in that sense, Donald Trump, in this case, that won Texas, the 50% Donald Trump won, in this case, all the delegates go to Donald Trump. So in that sense, for Mexicans, this is something that seems unfair and I can confirm that with some people who I have talked to, but yeah, it has been a roller coaster and the United States is under this polarized system and we thought that Joe Biden was going to win in this huge blue wave and the Joe Biden and the Democratic Party was intended to dominate the elections for the Senate and the House, but it is something curious that the Republican Party won the elections for the Senate and in the case of the House, the Democratic Party even lost seats in that sense. So it is not quite what all people was expecting to be in that sense. Yeah, absolutely. And again, like we did in 2016, the polls in some sense didn't get it right or they predicted some other outcomes that didn't play out. But in general, and you made reference to how voting maybe in a state of Texas or whatever state it is, but I would tell you at the end of the day, when Americans vote, they are assuming that they're voting for, you know, the individual. I think what you're explaining is that really technically what they're voting for is who are going to be their delegates from their state or who is their state going to send to the electoral college? And moreover, it's a process that is still to be determined even the Senate, while it looks likely that the Republicans will keep the possible majority. They have 50 today. There are two seats they're waiting to determine in the state of Georgia. You know, it remains to be seen. It could theoretically still go to the Democrats if they won both, but more likely we anticipate they may not. So let me turn maybe to Max again, some initial quick reflections. And then as we go beyond this, I want us to turn our attention a little bit more to US-Mexico relations. What does it mean? What does this election mean? But Max, some thoughts, what did you see in the elections? What did you find interesting or strange or what are your takeaways? Yeah, just like Carlos said, the election process here in Mexico is very different that in the United States. Here in Mexico, the one that decide the president is the popular vote. Although in the United States are the elected vote. And I don't know, I found this election very interesting, very dramatical, so-so drama in this election because first one state said, oh, Biden is winning, but what's leading now? And I don't know, it was something very interesting and I find it very dramatical the way that the postures of the candidates were, I mean, Trump will never accept that he lost. He's still arguing that there's a fraud, that Biden will never win the election. And that's something that to me, it's still very, I don't know, like I don't know how to say it. I get strange because I saw the, another speeches in the past elections where the loser accept he's losing the winner, but here we're talking about Trump and I know Trump is all a character. It's a very different man that all that we know. Yes. And of course, for that move our attention to basically US-Mexico relations and of course, Donald Trump, a very controversial figure. He comes to office, when he accepted his, or when he made his nomination speech or his acceptance speech to enter the race. He made a famous speech that was very critical of Mexicans sending rapists and criminals and the worst and all that, of course. And he has been pretty tough on Mexico. As a result, Mexicans have pretty tough feelings about him about him. Nevertheless, it's been interesting to see over the years, the relationship between Trump and Mexico's president, Lopez Obrador, you recall a year and a half ago in the summer of last year, there was a lot of pressure given to Lopez Obrador to control the flow of those migrants, the caravans of Central Americans. And in many ways threatening the use of trade war, like tariffs increases, if Mexico did not cooperate. And what I want to get at here is right now we have a very hot and evolving issue in the news right now. Very recently, there was a dramatic arrest in Los Angeles of a former minister of defense, General Sian Puegos, who was the most recent government's defense minister for the full six years, and he was arrested under as I recall, charges of money laundering, basically drug related, but more dramatically, just in the past day, the US government essentially putting pressure on, I guess has effectively released him to Mexico. And we don't have all the full details, but what we know so far is that obviously the US government responding to a request from Mexico to essentially let Mexico take care of it, so to speak. So this individual has been let free of the charges. General Sian Puegos, a very high profile figure, but there's a lot of complexity going on because obviously the US and Mexico have a lot of cooperation that happens in areas, for example, security and, you know, fighting the drug cartels. Very sensitive, very complex issue. And beyond that, it's not common to normal that you have, you know, a former defenseman. This is the first time somebody of such a high level has been arrested and now let go. And I'm just curious, I mean, what is your take on it? What do you understand is going on? Was there some kind of deal made? What do we know so far? And maybe how, how is some of the analysis in Mexico today about this issue and how might this impact relations between the two countries? Either of you. I wish to take it. Maybe God knows any, anything you can add to this? Go ahead, please. Well, here in Mexico, the detention of former defense minister Sian Puegos is one of the other cases that has followed the, during the administration of president Lopez Obrador, because in a, when he was in a, when he made president in his speech, he said, and basically he challenged the establishment and said that corruption was not going to be tolerated in a, from that moment. Therefore, the detention of Sian Puegos follows the tensions. For example, Emile Lozoya Austin and Rosario Robles and all the most important in, in the last year was a former a security minister, a Genaro Garcia Luna. And in that sense, well, for the DEA, the detention of general Sian Puegos was maybe the most important in the VA's history because they, it was a, an investigation of a year, a whole year that the Trump administration was trying to make a try to link the defense minister to the drug cartels and that basically the, the, the cabinet of president Peña Nieto is accused of being colluded with the, of collusion with the drug cartels. Then when general Sian Puegos was, was arrested in Los Angeles, the Mexican government and even president Lopez Obrador outraged and it was furious for president Lopez Obrador and foreign minister Marcelo Brard because the, basically the Mexican government wasn't notified about this and they didn't know anything about this stuff. So Marcelo Brard tried to gather and to talk a bit, a bit with ambassador Christopher Lando and well, in that sense, it was a negotiation and that president Donald Trump made and tried to press attorney general William Barr because they, they say that here in Mexico, Lopez Obrador threatened to block a cooperation with the VA and the United States in that because well, Lopez Obrador was furious and it wasn't made in the, in the framework of bilateral cooperation in security matters. So now the, now we Mexicans fear that general Sian Puegos is it will, it's more likely to be, it's so narrated and that well, this is going to be, I want another case and that Marcelo Brard said that Sian Puegos is a free man. That is what he said in the news and there are some accusations of him being, so he was playing some role in the, in the murder of the 43 normalistas in Guadalajara. Okay. No, well thank you. I mean, I clearly what it underscores, I mean, there's a lot at stake here. This is the highest level government official that has been on one hand arrested in the US, but now suddenly let go. And as you mentioned, obviously it reflects when the arrest was made, Mexico was blindsided. They did not know. And, you know, looking back now, perhaps a more ideal situation would have been for the US government to give them advanced notice and say, Hey, this is about to happen. Now, from the point of view of, let's say the US government, there is probably a reluctance to, to share that information, the intelligence out of fear that it might have, you know, made it difficult to capture him. Anyway, very complex issues, but certainly it is, it's a breach of trust. And so the Mexican government responds very angry, diplomatic letters, et cetera. And now curiously the United States, President Trump and his attorney general, a bar have sort of weighed in to allow the charges to be dropped and allow this, you know, very high ranking official to go back. I am quite sure there are people angry all over the place in Mexico, here in the US, even some government officials in the US who probably feel that he's, he's now got a free ride. He's going back to Mexico, which has more questionable, let's say criminal justice system. And, and he may be free after all. On the other hand, for Mexico, this is going to be an interesting test, you know, we'll open so that I'll be able to deliver. Will there be actual justice? Because I have to guess that if they had a one year investigation and if they made a decision to arrest him, they must have some evidence that I don't think they would do this just, you know, without a sufficient information. Will they share that information with Mexico? Will it be possible? Well, we'll remain to see. Maybe the bigger picture is that we see now a transition in the United States. So from Donald Trump, who even though the next six weeks are going to continue to be uncertain, you know, what's going to happen, but assuming he will be, as I think we can, he will be replaced in January by Joseph Biden. We're going to see a change in the Mexico-US relations. And I wonder maybe from your vantage point, perhaps either Max starting off and, and what do you anticipate? What can happen? Does Mexico see Biden in favorable terms or is it going to be more difficult? What, what are some quick reflections on the future of U.S. and Mexico in the transition to a Biden presidency? No, Max, maybe? Yeah. Yeah. Well, for Mexico, I think that it will be something very good, very beneficial with a lot of changes in a good way. But I think, I also think that it will be hard to establish that relationship between López Obrador, I'm López Obrador and Joe Biden because we know, and we saw the friendship that he established with with Donald Trump saying that they're friends and we have the best treatment of each other. So I don't know how it will be started that, that relation with Joe Biden. I consider that Biden will be more flexible in kinds of, of making the right choose the right things and taking the right decisions. But it will be very interesting how, see how the relation start and then evolve with López Obrador. Because Mexico, I consider that Mexico see with a very good eye that Joe Biden is the new president of the United States. But the relation between Mexico and the United States, I think it will be interesting to see how this date start and how they evolve. Yeah. And I know, like every time you have a change of, there needs to be a personal relationship that develops. And sometimes that takes time. Now, López Obrador, the president of Mexico is not known to be a global traveler. He's only been to the U.S. the only time he left the country. And maybe I'm just getting at this. We're not going to see probably a lot of meetings, but maybe that could change. And nevertheless, those personal ties become important. Beyond that, there's a lot of speculation that in fact under Biden, we're going to see Mexico engaged more, but that is going to be more of a scrutiny. In other words, more accountability for human rights, for the violence and insecurity, maybe for the corruption and so on. Whereas under Trump, more or less Trump was not terribly interested in Mexican domestic politics. As long as the border was closed, as long as Mexico do the dirty work on the southern border, and obviously then renegotiate the NAFTA agreement, the U.S. was not too interested in what's happening. I think that might change. And maybe Carlos, if I can turn to you, I mean, what are your thoughts on again, with the transition to a Biden presidency, how would this might play out in Mexico? What is some of the buzz or maybe thinking that you've, that you've seen? Yeah. And now that we're taking some points that Matt said, this is a big deal that Lopez Obrador, it's very first visit was to Washington to United States. And that he said that Donald Trump and he, he were friends. And at this, at this place during Mexico, Enrique Peña Nieto term, Foreign Minister José Antonio Mead and Peña Nieto himself traveled to some, to some other countries, but Lopez Obrador is not known to be a president or a head of a state that sees out of Mexico. And it is really a big deal that he's, he presented some support to Donald Trump. Now, well, maybe in Mexico, and it is something controversial that he, he's one or he's reluctant to accept and recognize Joe Biden as president-elect. But in this sense, I think that Joe Biden and maybe we'll, and Lopez Obrador must reach an agreement in migration. It is with Donald Trump that Mexico does the dirty work for the United States and Lopez Obrador as we know had an open doors foreign policy towards, towards the, hear this out of the country. But now that Donald Trump basically said to Lopez Obrador, please solve that issue. I don't want people coming in, being big ways, big waves to the United States. And maybe Joe Biden will continue some of these points achieved by Donald Trump and proposed to Mexico, but maybe there will be some human way to solve this crisis and this migration crisis. And Joe Biden, it is something that maybe Joe Biden will take some, some position that seems to be more of a peaceful relations to Mexico. But Lopez Obrador maybe will take some direct, direct standing to Joe Biden. And then that is what we fear here in Mexico. And let me, oh, thank you for sharing that. And let me just add very quickly to some of our viewers and many who will be faced more in the Pacific and Asia region. The Mexico, the current leader on this Monday Lopez Obrador, he's goes by his initials, he is a populist leader like we see several in Brazil, another variation in, you know, perhaps, you know, Donald Trump representing it. And yet he's a populist from the left. He's a left-wing populist who came to power with a pretty significant margin. And yet he also remains in his own way controversial. He's a populist. He shares some traits with Donald Trump. He has a disdain for the media and constantly challenging them. He, you know, he, well, he's, he's got some authoritarian, let's say traits, but more to the point now that they've been in office together, he's been there, I guess, coming up on two years now. They have developed a relationship, even though now it's at a distance, but it's like a, you know, I like to give the analogy, maybe better the devil than you know, than the one you don't. And in the sense that Trump, they've worked out an agreement, okay? You know, we'll take care of that border and just don't bother us anymore. I think that's going to be changing. And on one hand with Biden, as you've suggested too, I think we're going to see more engagement then and maybe the immigration question, for example, it's going to shift from being focused only on the security and maybe the law enforcement perspective of Trump to a more human security. So we're going to see this remain in Mexico policy where the asylum seekers have to stay in Mexico and it's got a lot of attention. The conditions are not very good. That will be gone and they will be able to apply within the U.S. and maybe more attention like AMLO to the socioeconomic conditions, economic, you know, under development, let's say in Central America or in parts of Mexico, a more human security approach versus the, you know, hard power securitization. But it's not going to be easy. And beyond that, we will continue seeing, of course it goes without saying that the Mexico is such an important country for the United States, the large neighbor to the south, but, you know, major, major trading partner, et cetera. And similarly, but in a different way, United States is so powerful and it's so important for Mexico, the leading, you know, economy and a very asymmetrical relationship. We always have to remind us that United States powerful usually is the bully, usually pushes it away. And Mexico, unfortunately, has that weaker position. However, and we can note this, you know, the recent renegotiation of this North American Free Trade Agreement, now the U.S. MCA agreement, it gives Mexico an ability to have a playing field together with Canada to sort of balance some of that, especially on trade and, you know, trade and commercial issues. And, you know, that's the nature of these agreements. They give a maybe more institutional context. However, we will always see the bilateral relations. So the leader of Mexico and the leader of the U.S. will always, you know, connect individually. And this is a, again, it'll be interesting to see once Biden does get into office, I will predict that fairly soon you will have some meeting between them. Maybe it could be at the border and maybe, you know, but somehow it is very typical that a new president in the U.S. or in Mexico, one of the first visits that they make is to say hello and have a formal meeting. We haven't seen that under Trump. Of course, he broke all the norms and traditions. And even Amno, who comes to office two years ago and prides himself in not having, you know, either much knowledge of English, much interest in global affairs. You know, he's interested in fixing the house, let's say, but it has come at a cost. A lot of criticism that he's disconnected or not aware. It'll be interesting to see how this drama that we've talked about, San Fuegos, you know, the crisis there, how it continues because there is a very complex bilateral cooperation between Mexico and the U.S. on issues of, you know, of drug interdiction. There are and have been for now more than 40 years, 45 years, a large presence in Mexico of drug enforcement administration agents, the DEA and others, of course, other, you know, law enforcement, CIA and the like. And they have to operate very carefully because Mexico is very strong and nationalistic and proud of its national integrity and you have to be careful not to, you know, not to give too much attention to a foreign country. But the reality I can tell you, and you should know as young Mexicans, is there are American drug agents floating around Mexico, obviously trying to penetrate and infiltrate these criminal networks. And interesting, many years ago, I lived in South America and Colombia where a similar relationship, of course, of U.S. drug enforcement agents. I can remember years back when the Colombians were arguing that just as the Americans have the right to send their agents into Colombia or Mexico, why, or no, they were arguing that it was necessary for Colombia to have some of their police and officials in the United States because only then could they penetrate the cartels and networks. But the U.S. obviously operates with different rules. You know, we can go there, but you can't come here. So suffice it to say that, you know, while there may be some secret undercover Mexicans, you know, agents in the U.S., they're not there probably with the U.S. approval. They have to operate separately. Instead, the U.S. dominant has this role. Well, let me maybe continue the dialogue here, and of course it remains to be seen, but I wonder if you can answer this question. Now, we've seen a lot of criticism and maybe understandably alarm about Donald Trump in Mexico, as in many parts of the world. And that fuels a negative image of the United States. Indeed, we've seen from a lot of data and analysis that the U.S. has suffered a lot of, you know, a decline in its standing and its image in the world. But I wonder, do you think there's a distinction between looking at the United States as Donald Trump and maybe looking at it more from people to people or popular culture, music, I don't know. You know, many people in Mexico, for example, have family connections or maybe they have traveled or visited the country. And I'm trying to maybe ask is, do you think that some Mexicans can distinguish that, the leader and what he represents and the people, the society, the culture, whatever. What would you say about that? Perhaps Max? Yeah, I would say that with the Biden administration, the Mexican people and not only the Mexican, the immigrant people will really feel that change in the kind of the ideology that Trump and Biden will manage and the people feel identified with the populist things that Trump has said that we are going to send into their home the migrants. We are going to make America right again. But generating a lot of hate to all the cultures, to all the different kind of people. But with the Biden administration, I will consider that they will really feel the change in the perspective of a most humanitarian way. And I don't know, I will think that, yeah, we will be seeing able to see that change. Okay, and maybe here is a final thought. Carlos, some final closing thoughts on that. Do you think there's an ability to distinguish between Donald Trump or, you know, other parts of American culture and society? Go ahead. For me, Donald Trump and it is something curious that even Tungamlo has a good relation to Donald Trump. Mexican people has a low and an image of Donald Trump being a populist and the enemy of Mexico. But maybe the changes in migration and these issues, basically that Mexico has struggled with insecurity in the border and that migrants are the basic receptors of, well, victims of these drug cartels. Maybe we'll see that change for Joe Biden in the Joe Biden administration. But I think that in Mexico, the general public isn't aware of the changes that maybe Joe Biden is proposing in foreign policy and yet. Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you for those remarks and, you know, it's helped us to just get different perspectives. I appreciate that. And I think at the end of the day, look, you and I, all of us, we're passionate about, you know, global issues. Most people are not, but we need to bring it to them. And this program, this opportunity to share your perspective helps inform our listeners. And I really am grateful to hear these insights. And the United States and Mexico are very important neighbors and very complex relationship. But I'm pleased to see that you, as young Mexican leaders, obviously, you have a good understanding of these issues and, you know, curiosities to learn about it because the fact is, as neighbors, we're never going to go away. We have to work together. And that requires us to, you know, dig deep. So let me thank both of you for this opportunity to share your thoughts about these issues about the U.S. elections, which can be confusing not just to foreigners, but even Americans. Every four years, we have the same problem. But nevertheless, it's a process that affects not just the U.S. but even Mexico. So the outcome of this election is important for you as well. So let me close on that. Thank you again, both of you, for joining me here on Global Connections. I'm your host, Carlos Juarez. And we'll close on that and look forward to the next one. Thank you so much. Aloha.