 by the Institute for International and European Affairs and the French Embassy here in Ireland to mark and also to celebrate International Women's Day. I'm Martín Fitzgerald and I'm delighted to be chairing this discussion with three very distinguished and also very successful women from Ireland, France and Mali who have each served at a senior level in political life. So we are delighted to be joined this morning by Francis Fitzgerald who is a member of the European Parliament representing Dublin and a former Thaulisté, Cadet 2, Connare, the Minister for Culture, Crafts and Tourism of Mali and Najat Vallot-Balcassan, the Director of One France and a former French minister. Now, before we begin, I would just like to run through the format of today's event. I will shortly hand over to the French ambassador to Ireland, Bonson, Guiron and the cultural councillor of the French Embassy here in Dublin, Marie-Anne Diallo who has been instrumental in organizing today's event. I will then formally introduce each of our guest speakers and get their perspectives on political life and decision-making, also the role of education and equality in society as a whole and also their visions for the future post the pandemic. Now, this session will be an hour long in total and one of our speakers, Minister Connare, it will be speaking in French today. We will have live French to English interpretation throughout this discussion. And to avail of this service, you can simply click on the interpretation button represented by a globe icon at the bottom right of your Zoom screen and then select English in the language options, which you will see displayed. If you don't wish to avail of the service, you can click off and the instructions will be made available also in the chatroom. And there will also be ample opportunity for members of the audience to participate. You can submit your questions with your name and perhaps your affiliate organization via the Zoom rooms, a Q&A function at the bottom of your screen. And please, please keep sending your questions throughout this morning's event because we are leaving time to answer them. Now, with that, I would like to welcome the French ambassador to Ireland, Bonzang, Iran, and the cultural councillor at the French Embassy, Marie-Anne Diello, ambassador. Thank you very much, Martina. Good morning to our distinguished panelists and to the audience. Bonjour, mesdames, bonjour à tous. I'm especially pleased and honored to open this debate on the International Women's Day. This year, France and Mexico will also be co-chairing the 2021 Generation Equality Forum in French Forum Génération Egalité, a global gathering for gender equality organized by UN Women. Thank you, Mrs. Fitzgerald. Merci, Madame Connary. Merci, Madame Valou Belcassem, for your participation to this exchange and thank you for IEA for organizing it. And I also want to share my speaking time with Marie-Anne Diello, our cultural advisor at the French Embassy, who has enthusiastically and resolutely carried out this project at the French Embassy in Ireland. Thank you, Marie-Anne. Merci, Monsieur l'ambassadeur. It is a great honor for me to be able to bring together three countries that are so dear to my heart, Ireland, Mali and France. Even though the role of women within political institutions has increased in recent years, we know that the road ahead will still be challenging. Allow me to express my admiration of our distinguished panelists coming together from different backgrounds and cultures. Thank you for being here. While the COVID-19 pandemic has placed women all over the world in even more precarious positions, this International Women's Day, your journeys and your testimonies will be incredibly encouraging for the future and for a more equal recovery for women all over the world. Merci. Thank you. Thank you, Marie-Anne, and thank you, Ambassador. And now I'd like to introduce our guest speakers. We're delighted to be joined this morning by Frances Fitzgerald, an MAP representing Dublin. Frances has served in national politics for more than two decades. She's a former thornisher who's held numerous high-profile cabinet ministries, including justice and equality, business enterprise and innovation and children and youth affairs. She has also served as a chair of the National Women's Council of Ireland, vice president of the Women's Lobby and is currently a member of the Economic and Monetary Affairs Committee, the Women's Rights and Gender Equality Committee, as well as the Development Committee in the European Parliament. You're very welcome, Frances. We're also joined this morning by Kadia Tuth-Conniere, who is the Minister of Culture, Crafts and Tourism of Mali. She is well known in the world of African publishing, is passionate about culture and is also a human rights activist. She also founded a publishing house which has made a significant contribution to African heritage. And under the direction of the Malian journalist, Ramata Diaouro, she brought together key figures to write the collective work about the Women's March, a chronicle of the Malian Revolution. Now, finally, we would also like to welcome Najat Fallot Belkasang, who is the France Director of Warn an NGO campaigning to end extreme poverty and preventable diseases. She also has a distinguished political career serving as Minister for Women's Rights and was a government spokesperson under President Roland. And she also holds the title and the distinction of being the first woman in France to be appointed Minister for National Education, Higher Education and Research. You're all very welcome. And we truly do have a very distinguished panel this morning. And finally, if you do want to get involved in this morning's webinar on social media, you can use that at the handle on Twitter at IIEA and at France and Ireland, as well as using the hashtags, hashtag IWD2021 and hashtag choose to challenge, which of course is the theme of International Women's Day. And this event is public and it has also been live streamed on YouTube. So without further ado, let's begin our discussion. I would first like to turn to our guest speakers and to Francis Fitzgerald. Francis, can you tell us about your own political experiences in terms of seeking and entering office and decision making in political life at a senior level? Good morning, everyone. Obviously, Martina, thank you for that question. And I'd like to also thank the Institute and the French Embassy for having such an international panel and focusing on International Women's Day. And I suppose what I would say at the moment in regard to International Women's Day is that it is a time for celebration but also for taking an audit with COVID and the implications of COVID and the differential effect it's having. My own political career. I never started out really to be a politician. I was a social worker. I did a basic social science degree and then I did a masters in social work. And it was really my experiences of both my social work in London and Dublin and seeing social problems as they emerged that gave me a passion, I think, for equality, inclusion and diversity. And that really I've carried right through my political career. And I've been very fortunate and honoured to have the opportunity to be a minister, as you said, and to work on those issues at a ministerial level and to bring forward legislation in relation to those areas. And I suppose when I was working early on as a social worker in Ballimon in Dublin with community and with families, I focused on work with families and children in the early years. It was ironic then, later on, I became not really ironic, but I mean, I suppose I never expected it that I became the first minister for children. And it was really my work on equality, on women's issues, on reading books like Betty Friedan and The Second Stage, Following American Feminism, organizing conferences here and bringing people from abroad to speak at them. And I'm sort of gaining understanding about the structural inequalities in our society that led me into politics after having been chair of the Women's Council for four years. And I've had the ups and downs of any political career and you certainly have to be resilient, I would say. And I suppose that the themes I had focused on at present is that we still have unfinished democracies, as I would call them. We still lack the critical mass of women and men working together. We tend to have too low percentages in decision-making of women, both in politics particularly, but in many other areas of business as well. But I would say it's all changing. We are on a journey and again, well done to France and Mexico for doing generation equality this year. Young women, I think are becoming more and more activist. We're seeing the Me Too movement. I think there is room for optimism, but equally we have to be very aware of the challenges still out there. When you think in America, for example, 61% of those who go for food stamps are women. You think of poverty around the world. In Europe, you think of the gender pay gap, still 14%. The pension gap is 39%. So there are many ongoing areas that we have to work on. And I started off by saying we have to recover from COVID and make sure that equality doesn't regress because that's the big danger at present given the differential impact of COVID. So I would say it's a privilege and all of us here were ministers or are ministers and it's fantastic because you could influence and you can bring about important change. And that's the privilege of being in politics, I believe. And that's why it is very worthwhile. And that's why we have to ensure more women come into politics. But being a mother of three sons has influenced me because you understand childcare issues in a very direct way when you're facing them yourself. And there is evidence that women deal more with social issues and bring up social issues. By the way, Martine, I just discovered last night there is one study showing that women are more active in politics and bring forward more legislation. I was delighted when I had found that. I didn't know that was true, but I came across one study in a book I was reading last night about that. So I think women contribute a lot would be my point when we're there. I'm certainly being in cabinet and I'd conclude on this. I have seen the difference between having two women in cabinet, three, four, five and out of 15. So again, getting that critical mass I think is really important. And that record of four Irish women in cabinet was actually recorded in 2014 when you were a minister at that stage. And you have spoken about how that changed the dynamic within cabinet. I'm next going to ask Minister Konare also about her political experiences. But first, I want to ask her about her outfit because it is a very special outfit for today for International Women's Day and also has a link to some women who are working in your country. Minister. Thank you very much. Good morning and good morning from March to everyone. I would like to make an element that seems important to me, fundamental. I'm not a pure product of the civil society as it is administered by international organizations. I'm not a political militant either. But the sense of my social and intellectual commitment I really think of the pull of the political militantism and the strength of the militantist political militants but also the pull of the commitment of the creativity of the civil society. When I arrived, I was called Minister of Culture and Artisan and Tourism in my country. I arrived there with a background of commitment like background and social commitment and intellectual commitment. And since then, I've been meeting and I realize that maybe doing politics is just trying to translate into concrete action our social commitment, our intellectual commitment. If you allow me, I would like to come back a little bit on this notion of social commitment and on the notion of intellectual commitment. Social commitment, for those who concern me, in any case, is still a sign of the heart of childhood, the heart of the educational system. You know, when we had a girl, we learned very early on how to take care of others, how to take care of the family, of the brotherhood. I was born as a family. So very quickly, I learned to have this responsibility. To take care of the younger ones. And on the side of the great family, of the mother, of the aunt, of the cousins, of the great cousins and even of the grandmothers, we learned to assist each other, to make them eat, to take care of the house, to make the house more comfortable. I remember and I say it very often when I think about this era of my childhood where the principles were instilled, I think very often of a responsibility that was assigned to me. It was that the morning before going to school, I was the one who had to make food for my grandmother. And I don't remember having missed a single time to go home with my grandmother. And do you see that in the responsibility? That's where you learn very quickly, very early to take care of the community. And then when you become an adult. My particular case, I think it's a quite general case in Mali because we are really in a community education mode, shared, which rests on our tradition, on the cultural valley. So what I'm also going to say, in what concerns my life as a woman, when I became a mother of women, I learned, as I think about the generations of women in my country, they learned that the well-being of a woman, the well-being of a house, it essentially rests on the shoulders of a mother of a house. So it essentially rests on the woman. We have the duty to take care of children, but not only of these children, of the children of others, that is to say the cousins who arrive at the house, the little ones, the beautiful ones who are there, the beautiful mothers who are there. We have a lack of responsibility. And it's the motherhood that governs all of that. She has to follow the good function of everything. And I believe, we never forgive the motherhood of the house not to fail this responsibility of taking care of the family, of taking care of others. And we are very often, very often, maybe the first to lift and the last to touch, because once again, you have to pay attention, you have to pay attention to everyone. The women of Mali, and I think I'm here too, as a housewife, well placed to tell you, we have a thousand charges to take, a thousand charges to be taken, and at the heart of the fatigue at the moment, and when I couldn't take it anymore, to allow me to open this confidence, I said, but I think the women of Mali are state leaders. Everything she organizes, everything she does works, and the sacred leadership automatically, they have the natural leadership, which is the fruit of the education world, once again transmitting generation to generation, but also the fruit of the organization mode of the family cell, or everything once again, on the shoulders of the master, but they all do this with a lot of discretion. In a great discretion, there is a popular advice from our country, which says, in the Basque, the skin knows what day it wants to be, if it wants to get up, but it leaves the care to the body of singing. This means, what this means, it translates all the great discretion with which the women arrive to take responsibility, to take care of the community, and in conclusion, I would say that it prepares us, really prepares us to assume leadership, whether it is politics, whether it is social, in any case, this is our natural position to take responsibility. There is a female condition in our Mali, and this female condition, once again, is the fruit of an education, is the fruit of a path, of a path that I would call path of Mali. Thank you. Thank you, Minister, and also for, I suppose, really dealing with one of the main obstacles for political participation by women, child-minding. Just to remind everyone that, in relation to the interpretation, in relation to the interpretation, when the speaker, when speaker, the minister is speaking, if you press French to hear the interpreter. And now we're going to move on to our next guest speaker, Najat Vallaud Belkasem, the director of One France to talk about her experiences in political life. Hi, from Paris. I'm so delighted to be part of this wonderful and powerful panel. Thank you very much for your invitation. Well, to try to answer your question, I was absolutely not predisposed to entering politics. To give you a little bit of background, I was born in Morocco. I arrived in France only when I was four years old. I did not speak French. So my childhood was not filled with politics, and especially since my parents didn't vote, that didn't mean I didn't have any commitments, but I have been fighting poverty and inequalities in NGOs from a very young age. And I certainly was not imagining myself as a politician when I was a kid. So I truly started to take interest in politics after high school when I studied law and then joined the Sciences Po, which is a high school, which made it possible for me to do internships in this area, for instance, in the French National Assembly. And this made me better understand how legislative action works and how as a politician, you could change things for the better. And what made me finally go into politics was the 2002 presidential election in France when the extem right candidate arrived in the final round of the election. And that was a pure shock for me and for many people who absolutely did not expect that to be possible. This event made me realize that I had to do something for my country and for the values I believed in because I had a voice and willingness to make friends a better place. Having a family coming from abroad was a true opportunity for me because it made me see the world differently. It gave me the ability to adapt myself to different situations and to understand very diverse points of view. It wasn't as obvious when it comes to being a girl. As a teenager, being a girl meant that I had a bit less opportunities than my male relatives for going out, for example. So that made me quite mad. Most importantly, I witnessed that for my mom, for instance, being a girl meant that she had less autonomy and had had way less opportunities to study and live the life she wanted. So that certainly made me a feminist very early and a huge believer in gender equality. Being a woman in politics hasn't always been a hassle but it certainly makes you feel because that's true as an outsider. You obviously have to fight against stereotypes, not just gender stereotypes, but in reality all kinds of stereotypes. And I've learned with time that the best way to answer them and to answer the criticism was humor and turning them into their region. I also think it's important to understand that during the debate, for instance, if you are being interrupted by a man, it's not because you were not firm enough or authoritarian enough. It's only because for years and years we have been taught that some voices matter more than others. That's what we call patriarchy. So instead of questioning ourselves, we should look up to people like Kamala Harris, for instance, who did it very well during the presidential debate in the US by asking to finish what she had to say. And we women have as much to say as men. We should believe in our expertise and our knowledge but that's not something that is easy to do. There should be a lot of training and education around that at all ages but also at school. And political norms, you have to remember that they have been built for men. So it's taking a long time to change mentalities and it also requires a lot of adaptability from women to fit into this political system. I think that is really the fuel essence that I have learned of this experience. There and I'm going to return to that theme now with all of our guest speakers starting with Frances because I want to get your assessment of gender equality in society and particularly education. Education has been highlighted by the United Nations as the fourth sustainable development goal, gender equality the fifth. And I think that this has been made in relation to these and what obstacles remain, Frances? Well, I think it's very clear that in Ireland huge progress has been made. If you think there was a marriage bar only back until 1972 and there weren't as many women going to third level and getting further training and so on. And when I'm in the European Parliament and I see the progress that has been made in Ireland despite outstanding issues which I will address in a little bit more detail. And I think it's very clear that in Ireland there has been a road back on women's rights in some of our members of the Union. It's quite disturbing. You see people and politicians from certain member states who do not want to use the word gender equality now. You see people going back on rights. You see LGBTQI rights being people saying we can't have this. It's really disturbing human rights issues continuing within Europe. But I would say that from an education point of view tremendous progress has been made in breaking down stereotypes I suppose. I mean, very early on when I was in my political career we were looking at textbooks that had very stereotyped and school books, really stereotyped stories about young boys, young girls. I think we're changing all of that. We're changing the world far more to young girls and of course young men. And I think that's really good. We see much higher numbers in universities. In many courses we see more than 50% of females doing whether it's law or medicine so on. The issue is more as people progress in their careers and come up against the very issue that both of our other speakers on the panel have spoken about. And that is combining work and family life, having the childcare supports, the caring demands, the unequal division of care in our society and the lack of value on it really. But from an opportunities point of view there's still a class element of course. There's still a socioeconomic bar because of costs and that is something we have to continue to work on. And there is another area where you're seeing inequality. And interestingly enough, Martina, it's in the AI's digital technology area. And connectivity is going to be so important for opportunities as we progress opportunities to get good healthcare, to get more education, smart agriculture and so on. That is an area where for some reason right across Europe there is a digital gap. There's a gender digital gap. And that's something we really have to work harder on and that is about women taking the subjects of science and maths and so on. And young girls seeing that that is a potential career because that's where the money is going to be. That can help deal with the gender pay gap and the pension pay gap. So I think in other parts of the world we have serious issues like during COVID we've seen an increase for example in female genital mutilation. We've seen an increase in early marriages. Now, if you have early marriages around the world, less chance of education, there's a real danger of both young men and young boys and girls dropping out of education with the consequences of COVID because education has been curtailed in many areas. So I think there are ongoing issues and I am reading about the need to make up for the last time during COVID as well with our young people. And many people are saying that we may not catch up on some of the educational experience that has been lost around the world. That it's a real challenge. So I think education is clearly the key for so much progress for opening doors. It's a good new story in many parts of the world but there are still issues and particularly then as people progress in their careers you end up having that gender pay gap. You end up maybe not having women at senior levels. You end up with women being more likely to be doing the care responsibilities and more likely to suffer setbacks in careers. So that's kind of a broad answer to that question Martina. Sorry, you're on silent. In fairness it was a broad question because there's so much you could talk about in relation to that issue. By the way on the tech issue that you raised there's some positive news today. Irish female founders have raised more than 100 million for the first time but just 16% of founders here are female. So there are barriers across the board and you mentioned that in your speech. I now am going to move to the minister, to minister Konari and I know you wanted to raise some other points but minister also in relation to dealing with gender equality in society and in education in particular which will be of importance to you. Thank you very much. But before answering this question allow me to come back to the topic of engagement which will serve me as an introduction I believe to address this second question. I was talking about intellectual engagement indeed which is also really the basis of my work every day. Very early, very quickly I had the chance to fall into a book world of learning and to open up to the world but really to go beyond our national borders and perhaps through the book to capture a culture of peace and tolerance and become an adult when I finished my studies completely different from scientific studies I decided to become an editor because I remember how much the book was important to me it was the companion of my young years and when I found myself in France for my studies the book was my confidence I learned a lot I learned to open up to the world to understand more about my environment which was the environment in France and therefore when it was time for me to choose a job it automatically went to the books to the editions I went to I quickly became an editor and I was indeed blessed in a political military environment I cannot say that the political fiber did not touch me, did not inhabit me I had a part of politics in me and the book seemed to me to be the good tool the appropriate instrument to make politics and to lead a combat of emancipation especially at the level of women and this combat took place at several levels First, it facilitated the access of little girls to the book, to the reading to allow women to write to say their thoughts to testify to the everyday not orally but to write so that it is recommended and third, to revisit the immaterial heritage which is also largely nourished by women and finally to be able, through the documentary books to demonstrate the engagement of women's combat especially political militants and you remember it in introduction we have five years ago published a book published a book that I really brought from the beginning to the end with a director of course of collaboration what was it in this book? it was five years ago we were in a historic tournament the Mali lived what was called March 1991 and March 1991 was the trigger event of the democratic revolution and the democratic opening and it was also the moment when women started to settle in the political room and women played an important role for the event of this democracy because she did not do this event without suffering without violence and women were the first to confront violence when the children went down the street to face the military regime these were the women who were interposed and this is the testimony of the women we interviewed these were the women who were interposed between the youth and the women they were a little bit expensive they had a different view I wanted to go through the book and especially to remember how many women participated in the march for the political emancipation of a country if women did not play the role that they had played 30 years ago the Mali would not be in a democratic state and they paid for it they gave the best of themselves because women were at war but children were also created I read in interviews that some women lost their children so this democracy in which we were instilled we owe it because women were at war but they were the same women to remember that when the power started to instill the first directions were instilled without women and what really happened was to talk about the issues of equality the issues of equality at the political sphere these issues still remain issues to fight to bring because in 2014 in Mali on 147 deputies we had only 9 women on 163 mothers of communes we had only 8 and on 16 diplomats we had only 3 yet Mali adopted a law in 2015 a law in Euro 52 which provided a 30% for elective and nominative positions all this to tell you that despite all the commitment despite the sacrifice and despite this as I said this natural disposition to do politics the battle for politics the battle to occupy the public sphere is not yet a battle won by women but back to the issue of education but in education I will also add a culture dimension the battle for equality for me is also the battle for education and the battle for culture the battle for education since we will say 3 decades 4 decades we have a special at the national level a national school for girls which has antennas all over the country and which of course deals with the conditions of school and the promotion of the girls' school but in 30 years of existence it is the UNG1 which is one of these last reports on the fact that the Mali is among the 10 countries where the level of schoolization of girls is in the descent of the Swedish way I think we are around 30 so there is really a battle at this level it is the battle of the girls going from 30% to a higher level but beyond the question of schoolization for those who concern education it is really the access to education how do girls learn to read how do girls learn to count so that they are more economically emancipated so that they can access the autonomy and this direct access to education can only be done through informal voices and also by relying on the mother tongue we have the chance to have at least 13 mother tongue which are instrumented that is to say it is the tongue with which we can read it is the tongue with which we can count it is really learning to read, to write and to count to still access the autonomy but even at the level of girls who are schoolized you will also have to put the accent on a problem of size it is the school punishment one thing is to put the little girl at school but one thing is to keep her at school so that she can have a diploma a diploma that guarantees what a diploma that guarantees a job and this is not a battle won in advance and at the level of the culture the cultural problem is also a problem of size I really like this word because it shows the struggle there are still domains on which women have not definitely won the fight at the cultural level when we revisit our historical heritage especially we realize again the primordial role that women have played whether it is the queen of our great empires or the martyr of the revolution which was talked about in the democratic revolution women have been at war it is for us of the real ability in this role that they played and also women are the detenters of the immaterial heritage the immaterial heritage are our values are our know-how if women are not there to transmit these values if women are not there to transmit these know-how these know-how will disappear this immaterial heritage will disappear and when a know-how will disappear when an immaterial heritage will disappear it is a people who will disappear at the same time so it is important in the battle for equality that the forms are rehabilitated in their role in their role as guardians of time as guardians of tradition but they are also rehabilitated in relation to history because they play a huge role in dancing for the consolidation of our countries for the majesty of our states for the majesty of our empires and minister clearly thank you this is a very you feel very passionately about this issue given the role of women towards democracy in your own country and also in terms of those dark statistics that you have given us in relation to education participation and girls so this is clearly a very issue that you feel very strongly about and also it gives us all something to think about in terms of the role of women past and also the potential of those young girls in the education system you work for an organization an education I'm sure is very key in tackling poverty and extreme poverty and you also have obviously a record a distinguished record as being Francis first woman to hold the ministry of education effectively yeah what is very frustrating about politics is that sometimes good measures, obvious measures clearly approved by the population are sacrificed for political maneuvers that's often the case with gender related measures as a minister of women's rights and education I have been the target of many fake news surrounding a mechanism I wanted to introduce in schools which would have included some education on gender equality and stereotypes for young kids a huge backlash followed the introduction of this measure even though it wasn't radical or extremist in any way so well that's the first thing also a difficulty in assessing gender equality in our own countries and in others is the blatant lack of gendered data this is a serious issue because the lack of data also implies that gender discriminations are always underestimated it also makes it more difficult to draft efficient public policies and to target the right audience no data unfortunately often is a way to make the issue disappear because if we cannot quantify the issue then it means that the issue doesn't exist and third I would say that another major issue is about COVID-19 we have to talk about it recently it has been estimated that we had lost 25 years of gender equality progress in only one year of pandemic this is absolutely catastrophic and for now this is not addressed by governments through gender-specific measures after the first lockdown in France I have published a book with a French philosopher the Society of Vulnerable People feminist lessons of a crisis in this book we assess the impact of COVID-19 on gender equality in France and in the world women have lost a lot in many areas during the pandemic that's true in France but the crisis has also exacerbated vulnerabilities in countries with significant fragilities in terms of food security economy there women have also been the first casualty of cultural and individual violence child marriage unwanted pregnancies school dropouts genital mutilation all these phenomena are rising and Kadiya Toukoin probably tell us more about that but more generally the crisis has brought out decades of progress in gender equality by reaffirming women as heads of households handling most of domestic and educative course while also sacrificing their jobs when family needed to come first the crisis has made domestic violence cases rise uncontrollably again policy responses to those issues were crafted without the contribution of women overtaken by the valued expertise of men in power women's reality was once more subordinated to the priorities selected by the political discursive which are men discursives so in the book we explain for instance that care workers cashiers health workers made have showed during this crisis how essential they were to avoid a complete breakdown of our societies yet those care workers are very appreciated and recognized in France and I think it's the same in other countries and these jobs are mainly occupied by women the COVID-19 crisis has brought to light the paradoxical nature of our current social hierarchies in which the most useful citizens are also given the least recognition indeed the crisis has impacted the vulnerable ones first and has highlighted inequalities and it has also shown that all that at the roots of our social organizations disparities at the roots is this idea that a woman is always a little less legitimate a little less competent a little less important than a man that's why I say that in many ways this crisis has made a woman the big majority of care workers more vulnerable so for me that's a real topic that we have to face I don't want to be too negative so I will try to end on a positive note we also have to highlight positive changes for instance in France the extension of the mandatory paternal leave in France which is interesting because as Kadya said now we have to fight on the cultural level to fight on the cultural level to end patriarchy means to make men as committed as women in the domestic life in the parental in the parental life so I think the progress have to be found in this area especially some important issues there in relation to COVID-19 and its impact on women and I'm going to ask the other panellists to very briefly if they can because we do want to get to some of our questions from our audience and we're concluding at half past but Francis Fitzgerald if you were to look at what you want to come out of COVID and your vision for the future very briefly what would you say thanks Martina I agree with what Nasha has to say COVID is the issue in terms of gender equality and the recovery from it what I want to see is the huge funds that have never before been available the amount from Europe going to each member state I want to make sure that the recovery is inclusive of these issues around gender so that for example we are taking account of the precarious position of women's employment that has lost more jobs in order for women to get back into the economy and to have opportunities the recovery is going to have to take that into account it's going to have to have you can't just think for example of construction construction is extremely important but you can create millions of jobs around Europe by building a care economy so that is something we really have to deal with the childcare issue the care of the elderly and the healthcare so we have to be conscious that there is a differential impact from COVID and every recovery plan and every government policy going forward for the next number of years has to be aware of that has to deal with it in its policies in its programmes for governments in its actions we also of course have to be very and we haven't mentioned it to any degree so far there has been a 30% increase I can't believe we're still talking about domestic violence, but we are, sadly. So you need really strong support to the organisations working with women. We need to address this issue in our laws. Well, we've done quite a lot in Ireland. I was involved myself in bringing in the concept of coercive control and the definition of consent. These issues are very important. So across Europe, we have to make sure that we look at the care issues that have arisen. We look at the access to health care, cancer screening, whether it's breast cancer screening, access to sexual and reproductive rights. This has all been interrupted as we have moved forward. And in my report, which was agreed by the European Parliament just two weeks ago, I look at the impact of COVID-19 in about seven different areas, the economy, domestic violence, health care, and so on. And make recommendations. And Nazja made a point as well. And I'm sure Cadia Teoto would agree as well that you need gender disaggregated data. If you don't do research that's inclusive of women, for example, in medicine, we're not going to give women the right treatment. And that has been a problem over the years and continues to be an issue. So gender disaggregated data in all areas is completely critical moving forward. And government can lead on this and really point to the areas where we need to be addressing the inequalities. And of course, Martina, I'd finished by saying, you know, everyday sexism is something we have to watch as well, whether it's in the media or in the day-to-day experiences we all have. And particularly young women, when you think of the impacts of pornography and expectations of having to look a certain way, this can be very debilitating and actually stop women and young girls from even contributing in classrooms. So that's a broader issue we have to continue to address. And that's an issue that you have spoken about previously and expanded on the pressures and also the fact that it discourages women from entering politics and other professions in public life. Thank you, Frances. Minister, in relation to a post-COVID environment, briefly, if you could see that your visions for the future of what needs to be addressed, because we really do want to get to our audience questions. Thank you very much. I think it is very important or very difficult for me to talk about the future today, to talk about the future without taking into account the 7 pandemics of COVID-19. My priority, my vision, I really want to focus on the different sectors that depend on the department, to know the culture, the artisanal, and tourism. And indeed, for the artisanal sector, as well as for the tourism sector, there is a world ahead of COVID-19 and a world after COVID-19. We have learned, for a few months, when the borders were closed, the Mali, who despite the crisis, continued to receive tourists, the Mali saw it as true as an international tourist. No more travel flow, while our tourist industry was mostly based on this international flow. And when the tourists arrived, what they liked, maybe the most, or which sector was the most directed, was the artisanal sector. They went to meet the creativity of the artisans of Mali. And therefore, no tourists, no really development of the artisanal sector, and we must be obliged to take a reflection, to say that we need to give ourselves the means to develop local tourism, national tourism, to allow the tourism to live, to survive, because once again, there is the world ahead and the world after, and therefore put the tools at the disposal of the tourist sector for this local tourism promotion. And for those who concern me, and for those who concern us at the level of the department, we are very much counting on the local, feminine resources. Because artisanal is held in large part by the artisans, by women. You see the jobs like the pottery, the pottery, the weaving, I was talking about it earlier, the tattoo, the artisanal, and the construction of a huge number of feminine jobs. We really need to revaluate these jobs and allow women to achieve an economic benefit. And for the new tourist sector as well, we can support the development of local tourism. We will be able to support the feminine resources. I have said it for a long time about myself. It is that women are the ones who know how to receive, they are the ones who know how to maintain the house. We have a culture here, it is the culture of hospitality. We call this culture the Jatigia. It is really the art of receiving. I am told that this art of receiving, we will simply transfer it from the family to the national one. To the citizen's cell. So our women from my 13 homes could very easily become citizens of the city by celebrating this Jatigia, this art of hospitality, which is an incredible art in the development of the tourist industry. As for the aspects of culture, the challenges are huge. The challenges are huge, but the vision is there. The vision is there. When we arrived at the department very quickly, we organized consultations at the different branches of the cultural sector. What would you like to say? We would like to sit around a table, everyone in the cinema, as well as the public actors, the technical partners, the actors themselves, the operators themselves, to discuss the future of the job. And we did this exercise at the level of all cultural disciplines, music, art, practice, dance, etc. And there was a certain number of recommendations that were really the result of consultation. And we will apply these recommendations. But I would like to point out the specificity or the particularity of the period we are going through in Mali. We are in a transition government, that is, a mission government, a government that helps go to the elections, that helps prepare the day after the elections. And we have the responsibility, lend me the expression, to close the house, to make sure that things are clear, so that those who will arrive can take the reins on foot. So we have a certain number of work that will go in that direction to really close the house. And finally, I would like to... Thank you, Minister. I'm just going to come in now, because I know Najat has a half-12 end, whether you may have a few more minutes with Frances. Okay. Najat, can I ask you, because some questions have come in from the audience. And I was just wondering, one is commending France and Mexico in relation to transforming the agricultural systems, but also asking, how can women have a greater influence in agriculture and food systems? Because that's also important in tackling poverty and extreme poverty. So I'm going to ask, it's a very specific question, but I think it's an important one. And that question comes from Rose Hogan. Yeah, hi, Rose. That's absolutely essential. And we absolutely share the idea that the first problem in the developing countries, especially, is the fact that so many women are working on agriculture, but do not master their work, do not own the fields and so on and so on. So that is absolutely right. And we are going to put this topic on the Gender Equality Forum that is going to be organized in France in a few months. But if you love me, let me maybe try to answer another question that I have seen on the Q&A from Claire Lodé, who is asking us, while in Ireland, the number of women studying engineering and science has increased, the number of men studying nursing or social work is not increasing in the same way. What would you suggest could be done to redress that imbalance, as I believe that full equality won't happen as long as some jobs are deemed feminine? She is so right. She is so right. And to come back to your question, you know, I hope the post-COVID world will recognize our vulnerabilities and the value of care, which should not be women's concern, but a concern for society as a whole. The lack of consideration for jobs which are mostly occupied by women today, the jobs in the care area, this lack of consideration is frightening. And for me, it is linked to the fact that in our general unconscious, the functions occupied by these cashiers, housekeepers or the caretakers are merely the extension of the domestic field. A field which is discredited and is supposed to rest on women's shoulders in a kind of natural altruism or generosity. And we see it wrongly as a natural extension of the domestic field. That's why these jobs don't have any right recognition of the armless of these jobs. That's why they are paid very badly and are known to decrease life expectancy, and so on and so on. So to answer the question of Claire, I will say that you're right. We must promote all these professions to make them attractive including for men, attractive financially speaking, but also attractive culturally speaking. And for that, television has a huge role to play in my mind. I don't know if it is the same in other countries, but when I look at my country, look at the cooking shows at TV which have a lot of success and increasingly bring men into the kitchen. So I think we should have the same kind of promotion and making the jobs more attractive, including other dimension of the domestic area, dealing with children, housekeeping and so on and so on. Same kind of TV shows that should make all these functions more attractive, and I think that's something that we should really deal with. That would be my conclusion. And I'm glad that you jumped in there as part of that question. It was my next one, but Frances, you will also be very familiar with that issue as someone who started off in social work, but I actually have a specific question that's been coming for you and I'd ask if all of our speakers are very brief because we literally have about three minutes left but Frances, not even three minutes to ask this question, but Ian Hughes has asked, what is the difference in having one, two, three, or four women in cabinet in terms of policy? That's a fair question. Yes, it is a very fair question and hard to summarize, but I would say it's obviously about hearing the voices of women and men. It's about critical mass. When you have critical mass, you get a fair distribution of discussion. I know, and I'll finish on this, when President Obama had his cabinet and the women found that there weren't being listened to and they decided they'd go for what they called amplification, which means that if one woman said something, another woman would support her, as opposed to one woman saying something, another man saying the same and then whoever was leading the discussion saying, oh, that's a great idea, John, I'm forgetting that the woman had said it, which I had that experience again and again in all sorts of settings. So I think it's about voice. My own experience as well is that women behave less hierarchically in cabinet, which kind of surprised me, actually. I found that women were more, and it's hard to generalize because obviously there are always differences and exceptions between men and women and not for a moment suggesting a man might do this, but I often found that women were willing to call the elephant in the room and to sort of say, but what about the fact that people are saying X or Y or that we're really concerned about this aspect of some legislation you're bringing in or some current issue. So I found a sort of a straightforwardness actually in women and less inclined to kind of go with a hierarchical, you don't say anything, which surprised me in men, but politics is very hierarchical and you're often dependent on leaders from positions. So maybe that explains it, but look at the main point I think is that you absolutely need the best thinking of women and men working together for our country and as you move from one to five women in cabinet, you're getting different experiences reflected as well. And very often I found women were very practical about issues as well in cabinet because we bring as our contributors to saying you just bring that experience of combining work and family life and housework and caring and you bring it all together and you bring it to your politics as well. And thanks Martina. Not all, Najat was smiling throughout that, so I know that she agrees in terms of political participation and having more women. Very briefly, Minister. And what about you? Do you believe it makes a difference having more women around the cabinet table? You are serving in senior office at the moment. So Minister, do you believe it is important to have more women in senior roles in politics? Oui, forcément. Forsements, c'est ce que j'ai dit à l'intame de mes propos. Je crois très sincèrement. Hello. Hello. Je continue. Ce que je disais à l'intame de mes propos, ce que je pense que les femmes sont vraiment de part l'air culture en tout cas ici au Mali et dans un certain nombre de pays africains, de part l'air éducation, de part l'air parcours, elles sont naturellement outillées à prendre des responsabilités. Et là ce qu'elles se retrouvent sur la scène politique, sur la scène publique, c'est avec beaucoup de responsabilités qu'elles assument leurs fonctions. Lorsque les femmes arrivent sur la scène politique, nous avons vu toutes les questions qui concernent, par exemple, le changement climatique, les questions qui concernent l'éducation, les questions qui concernent aient meilleurs de venir l'autonomisation même des autres femmes. Elles donnent le meilleur d'elles-mêmes que cela puisse se faire. Donc oui, il faut vraiment plaider pour un large accès des femmes à la partage des charges politiques. Merci ministre. And also, thank you to all of our guest speakers today, Frances Fitzgerald, Kadi Attu, Koneri. Thank you very much for joining us from Mali and also Nijat Balot-Balkasan, who had to go just there. I would also like to thank the IEA and the French Embassy, in particular the French Ambassador to Ireland, Vonson, Giraud and the cultural councillor of the French Embassy in Dublin, Marie-Anne DLO and all the IEA team Loda, Hannah, Norken and also the interpreter Veronica, who's done a huge...