 Ευχαριστώ, καλύτερα, μου name is Regastia Ikeris and I will be the moderator of this new event with the theme agroforesty and asian forest protection. This webinar will take place in English but there is also a translation in German. Ευχαριστώ, καλύτερα, my name is Anna and I will be the moderator of this new event with the theme agroforesty and asian forest protection. Ευχαριστώ, καλύτερα, μου name is Anna and I will be the moderator of this new event with the theme agroforesty and asian forest protection. momentary with Agmad who will say some small introduction, talk about the topic and then we will with the other speakers. So, Dag Fabien, would you say some words to us? Many thanks your words to you, Regastia Ikeris. Its a wonderful, great evening ... Σήμερα καλύτερα, σήμερα, από όπου πάνω θέλω να ακούσεις και να ακούσεις, μου name is Dagmar Tutschek. Είμαι η άνθρωση της Φρέδας, της Ευρώπης, της Ευρώπης στην Ευρώπης. Θα σας ευχαριστώ πολύ, όχι μόνο στο όνομα της Ευρώπης, αλλά και της Ευρώπης Ευρώπης. Επίσης και μετά με την Ελλάδα, ο κοπορρατίας της Ευρώπης, ειδήμαστε αυτή η συμφωνία. Η συμφωνία είναι έπαιρτη σε έναν πιο μεγαλύτερο προέγγιο. Σεύχρος, υπάρχει στον κόσμο, στους τρανθασιακές προέγγες να προσπαθούν και να προσπαθούν. Το μεγάλο υπογραμμό για αυτό το προέγγιο, διδάχνει την Ευρώπης και το κλαμμα της Ευρώπης. Η στιγμή αυτή είναι πολύ συγκεκριμένη σε αυτή τη στιγμή στην Ελλάδα. Πριν κάποιες μήνες είχαμε συμφωνία με την Ευρωμένια, όπου στην πρώτη λινία έγινε, όπως λέω, στους τρανθασιακές υπάρχουν αλλαγές στην τέτοια στιγμή στην Ευρώπης. Είχαμε δείχνει κάποια στιγμή στην Ευρώπης και στους τρανθασιακές. Η επόμενη στιγμή είναι στην Ελλάδα, όπου οι συμφωνές είχαμε συγκεκριμένη στιγμή με την υπογραμμότητα της ευρώπης με ένα καλύτερο κλαμμότητα της ευρώπης. Είχαμε δείχνει τέτοια στιγμή σε κάποια στιγμή με ένα καλύτερο κλαμμότητα. Δηλαδή η επόμενη στιγμή είναι η στιγμή της καλύτερο κλαμμότητα της ευρώπης για την Ευρώπη. Είχαμε δείχνει πάρα πολλές της ευρώπης με την καλυτερηση για την Ευρώπη, που θα είναι η επόμενη στιγμή και να να μπορεί να τις γνώμησες. και τώρα θα δώσω στον Ατριάν, Ατριάν Τωρτ, ο καλύτερος της The Green European Foundation, θα δώσω εσένα πολύ χρειασμένοι δημιουργίες για το επίπεδο της στιγμής. Ευχαριστώ, Ατριάν και όλοι για την καλύτερη συμφωνία. Ευχαριστώ πολύ, Σταγμάνο. Γεια σας, καλύτερος. Είμαι Ατριάν. Είμαι από το The Green European Foundation, ένας από τα τρίποχα κορδινότητες εδώ. Σταγμάνο, αυτό είναι ένα δύο χρόνια, το δεύτερο χρόνια που ξεκινήσαμε last year, δημιουργήσαμε να δημιουργήσουμε τη δημιουργία στην Ρωμανία. Στην χρόνια, με την Ελλάδα και το Ελληνικό Βασίδιο, θα δημιουργήσουμε τη δημιουργία της Αγρο-Φοραιστικής και της Ελληνικής Φοραιστικής. Υπάρχει σημαντικό επίπεδο στην αυτή η στιγμή, και από 120 συμφωνίες σημανήθηκαν. Θα αρχίσω να ξεκινήσω μερικές τεκνικαλίτες, πριν θα αρχίσαμε στον παιχνίδι. Επίσης, στο δεύτερο χρόνια, αυτό το επίπεδο είναι στην Ελληνική, και η σημαντική δημιουργία της Ελληνικής Βασίδιος. Η παιχνίδια της σημανήθηκαν και μπορείς να δείξεις όλα αυτά τα παιχνίδια σας. Και τώρα θα αρχίσω να το πω στο Ριγκάς, το Ριγκάς που θα δείξει τα παιχνίδια. Ευχαριστούμε πολύ, Άνδρια. Αυτό είναι ένα πολύ δύο κομμπίνασμα της Βασίδις, δεύτερος κόσμος της Ευρωπαϊκής Κόμπης, με την αρκετά της πόρτας της ελληνικής παιχνίδια, σπέχεια στον Τυμβέρ, και τα κόμπια της Ευρωπαϊκής Κόμπης, οι οποίες είναι σε μία δυνατότητα κόμπια, αλλά η πόρτας της Ευρωπαϊκής Κόμπης είναι πραγματικά μικρή, αλλά πολύ εννοείς, αφήσιματοι από τα πόρτα της Ευρωπαϊκής Κόμπης. Λοιπόν, θα αρχίσω να δείξω, όπως είμαι ένα πόρτας της Ευρωπαϊκής Κόμπης, και είμαι ο συνεργημός της κομπης της Ευρωπαϊκής Κόμπης, και ξεκινήσαμε αυτή η μικρή ιδέα για να παρακολουθήσουμε κάποιες δυνατότητα παρακολουθήσεις, που δεν είναι σημαντικά μόνο για το κόμπιο μας, αλλά μπορεί να υπάρχει και ευρωπαϊκές ιδέες στην κόμπια της Ευρωπαϊκής Κόμπης. Λοιπόν, θα παρακολουθήσω και τα δυνατότητα για τα δυνατότητα της Ευρωπαϊκής Κόμπης, που θα παρακολουθήσω σε δυνατότητα σε λεπτά λεπτά λεπτά, που έχει been done by our institution so far. Λοιπόν, η ευρωπαϊκή ιδέα μετά αυτή, είναι ότι οι πιο ευρωπαϊκές ευρωπαϊκές ευρωπαϊκές, στην Ευρωπαϊκή Κόμπης, είναι οι ευρωπαϊκές ευρωπαϊκές, αλλά οι ευρωπαϊκές ευρωπαϊκές ευρωπαϊκές, είναι οι ευρωπαϊκές ευρωπαϊκές. Επιτήλες, πλέον θα τουρυθούμε, σε δυνατότηται τρειοαίο παιχνιστό, επειδή πλέον θα τουρυθούμε, πλέον θα τουρυθούμε, γιατί θα τουρυθούμε, γιατί θα τουρυθούμε, γιατι κάτω από τα ευρωπαϊκή ευρωπαϊκή, but I will not tell you everything. τα όταν��는 άσκεια turned a sin forests some times y elle they we say that a year old pass rules or they are combine the agriculture activities with forester activities we say that these are landscape molecule Ranch gives an open dat of issues landscapes ARE x a very much a shipping in climate chains of course because they have για 4.000 χρόνια. Επίσης, αυτές τις λαμπίδες είναι οι πιο σκοτές. Αυτές τις λαμπίδες δεν είναι πιο οικονομικές και αυτές είναι δυνατές, αμπάνδοντας, και ειδικά στην κοινωνική κοινωνία, όταν αμπάνδοντας αυτή η λαμπίδα, δυνατές νεριστονικά λαμπίδες και πόρτας φοράνιστε να ορίζεται, γιατί αυτή η δικασία καθώς δεν παράγεται από πρωταπλιά της άνεδας, από τα τραβ inverted. Επιτύπλα, τα δυνατές είναι αμπάνδοντας και διαφάζοντας με τηλιοπατία, στους ααστές, φυσικά, κλαμπίδες. δημιουργή της λανδιούς, όπως είπατε σε Αστρία ή Ευρώπη και δημιουργή της ασιανής φορές επειδή της ασιανής λανδιούς. Έτσι, έχουμε αυτή η δίπολο, το αντιδοσμό των οικονομών και την ασιανή λανδιούς. Η άλλη πράγματι είναι ότι η ΕΕΕΕΕΜΑ είναι ένα πολύ αμπισιασμένο σκέφτημα, να χρειάζει τρεις μιλόδες, έτσι το 2030. Έτσι, ώστε να δημιουργήσει το πρόβλημα με τα πρόβλημα της CO2 και ότι χρειάζοντας μπορεί να είναι δημιουργημένη από το πραγματικό σκέφτημα, ώστε να δημιουργήσει λίγο, τα πρόβλημα που οι ασιανές και άλλες δημιουργίες μπορούν να δημιουργήσει το κλίμα. Αυτή η ιδέα είναι πολύ αρκετή για την ασιασμένη σκέφτημα, αλλά πρέπει να χρειάζουμε να βρεισουμε τις δημιουργίες ή μπορούμε να το δοκιμαστείσουμε για να εμπληθούμε άλλες σκέφτημα για τα πολιτισμία της ΕΕ, like by a diversity act, also like the 17 goals of sustainable development or the need for tackling the desertification or the problem of creating new jobs after the COVID-19 era. So our idea as a green institute, it was a retro innovative idea of launching an initiative which we name as reproductive reforestation. What is a reproductive reforestation is an initiative that combines the reforestation, so creating new forests in the areas where forests existed, a forestation which is creating a forest in the areas that are in the forest. And planting trees. So these three pylons of planting trees could be done in a way that could create multitask multifunctional forests but also preserving ascent landscape, protecting agroforestry system and bringing more, let's say, products in the market, creating more jobs and in the same time protecting the ascent forest from the wood demand. We made, therefore, three events. The three events had to do with what is productive reforestation, what is this idea, and that are about the desertification and the reforestation. The new fund, which is about the resilience and recovery fund. And we invited some speakers and we combine all this current scientific knowledge of these invited speakers, which they were from academies, institutions, NGOs, etc. And we produced this book that I will present you in a minute which will be, which we wanted to be a book of guidelines for the policy makers also and for the wider public. So our book is, I will share my screen now and this is our book. If you see it, I don't know. Do you see my screen now? Yes. All right. The title is Productive Reforestation for Living Rural Landscapes, and the topic is how we can create jobs and reviving agroforestry systems that sustain many, many years, thousands of years for livestock farming also, for agriculture, for beekeeping and for biodiversity while tackling desertification, erosion and mitigating the effects of climate change. This is the product also a scientific committee that we are working as a team for producing this in a very short period, in two months only. And this is our small logo which is about, you know, the bee and the goat and the ashen tree. And this is the book of the proceedings. So these are the, our invited speakers are 20 people clicking in this icon, you can find also the presentation of each speaker. So this is a characteristic example of ashen forest in Greece, open wood pasture in Xeromero area, Anastasia Bandera will speak about this special issue. And here Ilya Gianniris, the president of our institution said about a small greeting about what is the purpose of our goal. So I also make an introduction saying about these unique landscapes and how we can tackle biodiversity crisis and global climate change problems with the forestations and how we can create jobs and how we can involve people in that. So this I will escape now and to show you how do you see again this is the way we present our work this is the invitation card of the first event and here was the the first talk it was by him and explain what is agroforestry and this mixture of land users creating new but also preserving the old ones also Panagiot-Sanatou said about the saving a lot of varieties and how we can exchange seeds and how he held one of the biggest seed festivals of the world and how important it is to preserve the ashen varieties whereas we have talked about the beekeeping and the importance of beekeeping in the forest landscapes the beekeeping is crucial for preserving the biodiversity there as also Nikisianis said about invite us to see these important hugely abandoned landscapes of the mountains of Greece where asian races of fruit trees can be a potential exploitation and they can create like Malupa said here new clones of berries and trees that are adapted in a local environment could be resilient in climate change and could produce innovative products and can be used also reforestation and planting the second event it was about desertification you see characteristic example of desertification in the islands and we had Dr. Yashoglu Yashoglu is one of the very famous in Greece professors because he was the first to invent the national commission of against desertification he pointed out how important it is to have action plan in the country and also in Greece while Panagiotis Panago said about the conclusions of the European Accord and he said about the importance of having joined forces about all strategies that have to do with the European policy about the strategy of the climate change strategy and also to take the desertification issue in account also Χριστωτσαδίλα said about the certification of land users and how you see as you see here in the agriculture sector and how this is very very threatful for the agriculture for the soil and the productivity in general while Dr. Caliva said about the prioritization and how we can use the modern technology to implement the measures we need as fast as possible in most areas Dr. Παναστάση said about the range land and how they have been deserted and how they can be used while Giannis said about the local races and how they can be used to tackle the problems of sustainable management of range land while Dr. Πετανίδους said about how we can use these terraces the stone wall terraces that are in a huge area on the islands we treat how we can treat them as barriers for climate change and how we can say that these are green infrastructure that have to be preserved and revived whereas the last event was about the resilient and recovery found and Dr. Κίσο said about the cap policies and how they can preserve or destroy these ocean landscapes while Dr. Χατζιώγιου said about the importance of local sea varieties to revive the grey lands and also Dr. Δαλεζιός said about the priorities, how to identify this agro-climatic zoning and Dr. Πετανίδους said about the genetic diversity of forest of forest and forest species and how we have to make nurseries with local varieties of genetic local varieties of wild forest species while Perikour actually said about the national strategy of forest strategy which has been launched in 2018 and how we can command with this and Dr. Κακούρα said about the history of the forest service and how difficult it was to create these multi-functional landscapes in the past and how we have to have a new Mediterranean forestry in order to tackle the new problems. Lastly Μιλία Δρούγας said about the importance of identify the globally important agricultural heritage systems and how the new agricultural policy could develop this point of view and how this tool could be used to find out new areas and to identify priority actions. Then lastly we'll give you the chance to read and to see from Jeff's website also the summary and conclusion we have here long text that has many many recommendations and actions to be implemented and policy prioritization and this is let's say the combining result of all the issues before and lastly you can find everything in the press release etc in Greek language of course in the last page. That's all from my part and I hope it was interesting and now I have to give the I will start I want to stop sharing and give the talk to our next invite speaker who is Martin Hoysling MP from the European Parliament we are very pleased to have him with us and he will give a talk about the Common Agriculture Policy and the traditional forms of agriculture. I know he knows this issue very much in depth because he is also an agriculturalist and product on biological products yes, if I am right so I am very pleased to hear and also our participants to hear his point of view on this issue thank you very much So Martin Yes, thank you very much Thank you very much for the invitation In fact I am in my previous life I was also a farmer My sons are now doing the business and I come from the middle of Germany, I only heard agriculture but also a piece of agriculture but that starts with the problematism, together with agriculture because it is very sharp there is forest and there is agriculture and there are hardly mixed systems that are basically actually meaningful so now and this is my second agrarian form that I do in parliament we are talking about the distribution of a total of 387 billion euros and I say so the hope dies last but normally it is that I rather orientate this agrarian politics on a standard model middle-European agriculture businesses that have no mixed forms but that is very cool it is no English translation I hope it works that so to say it is more orientated on a global market agriculture with always greater productivity not with small farmers you deal with relatively little that is unfortunately so but on the contrary when I hear so many colleagues in the agrarian division or also agrarian ministers who are below 10 ha are rather models that prevent the agrarian structure because the opinion is that everything must be extremely productive and that is to say the general direction of the general market on a real wrong path and that there is also or in some countries the company wants to give generation change shows that in many areas this traditional structure a small business rather from the market to push away instead of giving you an appropriate opportunity and that is still there in the first line because the supply system is set up on the hectare 60% of the payment there will not be much to change in the supply of hectares you have a lot of hectares you get a lot of money you don't get a lot of hectares I always say that for the large business in East Germany with 1000 ha you can buy a new tractor and for the other it is not enough for the spread for the small business therefore it is indeed so that we urgently need a new direction and we have on the other side many European parliaments the forest strategy also this one runs in the direction of productive fast, machine-earnable harvested forests for the wood production that is more oriented to the Nordic forests and not to the traditional South European forest forests and not to the forests that have a double use but you have to apologize this forest strategy is a strategy of the European Union forest politics as such is a matter of the national states therefore the European Union has relatively little to do with what we need now and therefore there is also the chance in the new GAP that we set up the funding there should be a new model that does not only count the hectares but also the result of the funding and that is the funding of the biodiversity the funding of the climate users and therefore are now systems like the Agroforesty now you can eat what I have prepared as a document is now suddenly on the agenda and one of the four measures that should now be promoted in the first column within the so-called new ecosystem when the presentation comes it would be very good I will continue with 30% of the agrarian funding should now happen in the first column with the help of free environment and one of these models that will be promoted is then also the Agroforest method you have to say in many countries as well as in my country in Germany this is a method that until recently not at all not even on the agenda was you have not even asked because you then started and that's not a joke that's actually true you started counting how many trees can be on a hectare or how many can be cut off so that it still fits in the agrarian funding program and you had the agroforest agriculture not even on the agenda and that's what you have now, thank God want to change it so that agrarian systems basically will be part of because the measures are freely from the Mediterranean that this agroforest agriculture is also promoted also as a heavy point when it is offered to the Mediterranean we all know and that has also become German had a high effect for biodiversity and the goal of the 9th GAP should also be a promotion of biodiversity we all know that it has increased protection for erosion we had many deaths in Germany in several years on a motorway because a sandstorm in Germany to say that it has lost sight and the cars are on the other side because you have surfaces in the largest order of 100 hectares where the dust was thrown you can avoid that with a reasonable application of forests forest surfaces or stripes of forests and that is one point that is very important of course there is the rise of humus from long-term humus and not only short-term humus and the whole of course has something to do that through these roots through the long-term in the end the marine environment is better accessible and the water environment is better so all these stories are actually known in science for a long time and for a long time also a part of many discussions only they have never been in any condition and we have to change that for the next time and I think that's why it's so important that you also bring this promotion what many farmers especially in the Middle Europe have nationalized their areas in recent years for great techniques you can see that when you are driving with such a meter you prefer to drive 100 ha instead of turning between trees that's right but it's also possible if you have a good will and if you arrange a promotion that then a farmer who gets more money than someone who does nothing and that's why it's actually a huge step forward especially for the biodiversity and environmental protection as I said Germany has now in the new national strategy plan also brought down what we need in the first place because in many regions in Europe we no longer have traditional agroforces but rather the farmers and the farmers also bring the advantages of the system a bit closer because many farmers are very skeptical and that's really the case in Germany many other countries have called it flood cleaning that means in the last 100 years in the 70s and 80s there were still areas with large units and now the same administration says you have to plant and pick up trees that's why we have to bring the farmers closer and I think that you can also connect that in Southern Europe with systems where you can clearly say there are many examples that we can convey in many other countries and that's now and I'm curious next week we will have the highest probability of the end of negotiations whether the commission makes a proposal that clearly shows that as a measure it also specializes so it is also about that now it is also equipped with a management component and that the member states that they also have to do this and then you can also see old systems with the olive trees you can actually keep them and you don't have to fight for them in which area of the promotion that fits now but you can do that with both measures 1st column, 2nd column and the advantage is and we had a event with Mr. Timmermans and we explained that to the point where we also said in German that it would be good if you implement these agraforst methods and the farmers pay for it in the Natura 2000 strategy European Sustainable Development Strategy in the Klima Program fits in and this is all stories Cork 1 & 2 but this is the development of the Lenschen Räume, there were two big conferences and that's why you could also design models where countries in Southern Europe could be a model I have to admit as someone who lives in a landscape where it has been traditional for many years it would be good to transfer this from Greece or from Romania and you can say the advantages that have become in recent years traditional forms of agriculture could be developed to model that would be a real shift that would be a real turn to rationalize but that would be a traditional form of agriculture combined with a reasonable agriculture to have a model for a different form of agriculture Timmermans himself in the Farm to Fork Strategy said 3 billion trees for Europe that's a good idea but not everyone should in the forest plant but we should in the agrarian landscape and I'm happy here that we actually don't have a water problem this year but that it's relatively damp this year but last year we had the time here and that was the third drought and the conditions that no one knew where it really was the end of May and we had the dryness that generations were not known and the three years after that shows that we have to adapt to the agrarian system and that's why I hope that after all everything is still open that's why I hope that you get this chance but also that the commission the chance to implement this as a standard and that we also stop to say that that would be an important point to raise this sharp separation of forest and agrarian I know that there are still many in the forest who have a problem so the Austrian colleagues know that in Austria a few years ago there was an investigation on the Alps that suddenly someone came and said it's nice and good, there are 30 ha but there is a stone and there is a tree and there is a hedge, we have to calculate everything out and then you get less premium that could be stopped by massive interventions but next I want that exactly when there are trees that the land gets more and not less and that would be a reward for those who do these agrarian systems or have already done and we get such a system from the niche I can say that as a European it was a bit I was more than in South America and on the one hand I saw the agrarian industry with you all know these pictures with 20 meters apart in a endless field but I also looked at the contrast like indigene communities or in the middle in the Argentinian Pampa a de-meter operation agro-force systems in a traditional way and when you compare the contracts that is the truth you build a 2 ton soya prohector and while in such sustainable systems in these agrarian landscapes a 3-4 times from which you earn because you work on stock and the systems are much more intensive but also better used also that you have to explain a lot of the industrial agriculture and I hope that's why we can set new accents at this point especially from Greece but also from other countries that these impulses will be carried in other countries so you may see a sustainable agriculture in the future and not the big industrial fields thank you very much and if you have any questions thank you very much this was a really exciting talk hearing from the German point of view seeing these nice pictures that it makes sense because several times agro-forest issues are when we talk about them we think that this has to do with tropical countries and we are really pleased to that we are let's say have been understandable that this is a future agricultural in the intensively managed landscape so I will give the speech to our next speaker Matthias Hoffen, who is a conservationist a book author and photographer and he is very well known for his actions in the Carpathians preserving the asian forest there the need of preserving this unique ecosystem and he will speak about the integration of strict nature protection and small-scale agriculture in the Carpathians so Matthias Goen, thank you very much always the same problem I was muted so thank you very much I'm very pleased to be able to speak here I need to share my screen right now I hope it works Can you see it? Yes Are you seeing the right screen or the notice board? Ok So yes, I will be speaking about biodiversity rich landscapes and I will try to bridge the issue we had at the last event the petions at the old frozen primary forests also with discussion about agroforestry and peasant lands because there are possibilities to actually combine that I will start a little bit with the context Biodiversity rich ecosystems are rare in Europe and they are vanishing they are vanishing due to intensification they are vanishing due to greed to illegal exploitation that's a widespread problem in some countries and they are also vanishing because the protection systems do not work properly and I will give you some examples a bit later the biodiversity richness of landscapes correlates with the absence or the low degree of industrial exploitation of resources so wherever you have industrialized hardcore forestry or agriculture biodiversity is more or less gone here on the picture you can see an example of a very beautiful peasant landscape in north and austria it's an exceptional landscape almost nobody knows only very briefly that's what I thought I was afraid of so sorry I need to stop that ok second try is this the right screen now yes ok sorry for the confusion I have two screens and this is always causing problems ok so what you can see here is a very biodiversity rich beautiful cultural landscape in north and austria it was constructed by the peasants 400-500 years ago and it's now a landscape full of terraces and stripes and there's lots of bushes and trees which means that there's a lot of habitats for all kind of different species you will not find anymore in an industrialized agriculture landscape so this landscape is of course also worth to be protected and preserved aha and now ok it's still tricking me yes and another important aspect of the context is that we are running into a climate crisis and as you can see this picture here that part of the forests which have been planted in the last 100-200 years mainly coniferous monoculture, spruce monoculture are collapsing because of the effects of climate of the climate crisis it's kind of a combination of the failures of forestry and the emerging climate crisis it makes management mistakes visible and leads to an increasing collapse of annexations this is on the one hand bad for economy and it's bad for ecosystem services because the forest cover is just vanishing on the other side the removal of the monocultures and if this land would be left over for natural regeneration this also would create a high degree of biodiversity this picture you can see on the right side you can see a natural forest which is part of the forestry management of a monastery in Austria and this forest is not exploited it's a reserve and on the other side of the valley on the left you can see the monocultures which are getting more and more brown and which are collapsing so all these frozen countries will be gone in a few years most likely this does not necessarily lead to learning effects as we can see here so it's still forestry is looking like agriculture here there's another problem which is also important for the context is that there's a rising demand for woody energy biomass this is on the rise also because of subsidies it's really subsidized in many countries wood biomass is considered to be climate neutral and kind of zero emission it's used greenwash coal power plants in UK, Denmark and so on and this leads to an increased stress logging stress also for natural forests and by its importance the stress that the cut even burning of major forests is not climate neutral before 2015 so the CO2 will not be absorbed back what you can see here is this is in my home country here in the southern side where an old forest was cut just a few weeks ago you can see this is very old trees they have no value and they will just be burnt so now I come to actually the example I would like to present you today so considering all these contexts we still have some landscapes in Europe which are highly interesting because of the biodiversity and also because of the tradition and many of these these very valuable precious landscapes are located in the to patients in particular in Romania and we have there a mosaic of biodiversity rich nature forests primary and close vicinity also to settlements and to traditional villages and to small scale hasn't land and this kind of mosaic it's it's not it's a perfect example of how an integration of human use of resources but also protection of biodiversity and ecosystem which is quickly looking back this is just an overview about Romania it shows locations of potential old growths and primary forests so you can see there is a lot left its about half a million hectares of forest which are really very diversity rich and have a high ecological value and here you can see that these forests are how they are ending up all these very old trees with little economic value are being burned or shredded for chipboards but this is a problem we have in whole Europe that the logging intensity is increasing in Scandinavia and in the case of patients in the case of Romania this led to EU infringement procedure which was launched last year in February but it got stuck somehow and I will just talk about that a little later because this is part of the problem so this coming back to Romania I would like to show you an example of CERNALE that's a beautiful valley in the heart of the Domogliet Valley at CERNALE National Park which is also a UNESCO World Heritage Site on the picture you can see the little hamlet of Prisagina and in this landscape you have a very interesting mosaic of low intensity agriculture small scale agriculture but on the other side also you can see up on these mountains and hills that you can see there is a very natural forest and this shows how strict protection of natural ecosystems and also low impact economic use could be integrated this doesn't have to be contradictions here in the picture it's Boyjuara that's a little village in Fargarajma in southern Romania there are almost only a few elderly people left all the young people have left for the big cities so the depopulation and the aging of the rural settlements but also a big problem in logging is often seen as the only economical option because there is money coming from the logging companies from the saw mills but the alternatives are not really developed and yeah this is how the logging logic is looking like it does not create sustainable chops it destroys biodiversity and also critical ecosystem functions especially in the mountains and also it liquidates the foundations the potential foundations for tourism development which would have less severe impact on the landscape so back in Cernavelli these ancient rural landscapes are a mix of cultural and natural landscapes and they are exceptional beauty for all people who have seen this valley there they come back with shiny eyes and and swear that they will go back one day so this is a great opportunity to develop also low impact rural and natural tourism this would also generate income and improve the standard of living in these local communities the people there live mainly on subsistence basis but they have almost no income and in terms of I don't know diseases or sickness this is really creating problems so income from tourism would be very much appreciated and needed the examples here there are some little hamlets in Cernavelli and they are part also of the National Park they are part of the UNESCO World Heritage Site who made an interesting translation of heritage it's not a guarantee so these hamlets are located in the buffer zone and there has been a conflict between forest exploitation which was actually emphasized by the Romanian State Forest but also by the National Park Administration they wanted to open this well but also on the other side the conservation objectives of the protected area you can see here the area of Prisa Cina where this conflict occurred a few years ago but Silver wanted to build roads and exploit the natural forests in this part of the National Parks fortunately there have been protests there was a partition which was signed by many thousands of people and this plan was stopped so there is the opportunity now to actually try to develop a plan B to the logging logic and to develop this kind of natural tourism which would be the alternative for timber exploitation which could also help to develop this economies there you can see it's really of great beauty you have a kind of a mosaic of this traditional peasant forest so there was kind of low level timber extraction symmetry extraction whatever needed the firewood or construction wood in the villages but this was not industrial logging there was never any larger clear cut it nested in between you still find also old roads but it's there if this would be opened just with hiking trades for hiking tourism this would be compatible also with the conservation objectives of the protected area so there would not be any contradiction and there would be an economic benefit so this would be actually a win-win strategy I just wonder why it hasn't been done already there is almost no development and this would also help actually to create seasonal jobs and hopefully bring back the young people which are hardly missing because these villages are getting more and more empty so it's conclusion both the natural ecosystems and the traditional smallholder agricultural landscapes need to be preserved and we need to exploit all the legal means and also economic incentives subsidies whatever to make that happen this needs to be one important part also of the biodiversity strategy and of the official programs of the European Union so therefore coming back to my main work I'm working with Euronautur on the protection of the old roads of primary forests in Romania the infringement procedure in Romania must go on Romania is not on the right track now but in this case whether the biodiversity strategy has a chance to be implemented or whether it will fail because if in this stronghold of nature in Romania implementation of the biodiversity strategy will not happen then it will also fail in the rest of Europe so the stupidion commission must not allow the infringement procedure to be computed just based on some minor legal things but in Romania it's proposing currently they want to increase the compliance with the nature directives and the environmental impact strategic environmental impact directive and so on but at the moment there's no plan to do any intervention with the current logging plans so with the actual forest management plans which are in place for another 10 years in many locations and Europe would just stand by and watch how these forests are disappearing so this must not happen so therefore I very much hope that the commission will do the next step and also bring this case to the code of justice of the human kingdom yeah, that's the value of Boyamika we managed to get it under protection 1000 hectares of virgin forest and local communities a little bit downstream but some parts of the valley and they would benefit greatly from careful, cautious nature tourism development and this is probably one of the pilot projects which could be developed in the next years thank you ok thank you very much and I really appreciate this nice fantastic pictures of yours which remind us of course some similar landscapes of course in the northern part of Greece which face exactly the similar problems of land abandonment that lead the local people already depopulated areas but mainly the remains the people that they remain they are very old and they do not have any other income to to log all these asian forests or this is a huge problem I think all over Balkans but I'm very happy and very pleased to see corners of our common land let's say Europe to being preserved although outside of the main economic let's say highway so it's really important to see the preservation of these asian landscapes both within forests but also in agroforest landscape so I will give the speech to Michalis who is a professor of the department of forest and wood science and design in the university of Thessaly and he will speak about these agroforest Mediterranean landscapes and the need to revitalize these traditional silver arable landscapes in order to be beneficial for the local economy but also for the biodiversity and all these issues that we raise already so Michalis you can go on thank you very much for being with us Good evening everybody would like to thank also apart from Riga's for introducing me I would like also thank Klaus for organizing the webinar and Jeff and Freda for supporting me I will share my screen now Yes Well as Riga told before I will present you the traditional silver arable landscapes in the Mediterranean and I will focus on the need to revitalize them I hope at the end of the day that the Mediterranean traditional agroforest systems will be evident but they serve as values from the past and models for the future this is an expectation from my part Well agroforestry is a rural activity that refers to sustainable and management systems where the three species are associated with herbaceous plants with some form of special arrangement or plant sequence these systems can also be grazed by farm animals and in this respect we can distinguish three such systems the silver pastoral, agro-silber pastoral and silver arable systems but what about traditional agroforestry systems these systems created by man in the past and are preserved to this day their creation is linked to the achievement of economic, environmental and social goals According to Professor Papanastasis they have high cultural value but reflects the ways in which man lived in the past close to nature faced and exploited the available natural resources interacted with the environment and incorporated the natural elements and mostly the trees into his, her life Martin talked before about the environmental benefits that we can acquire from agroforestry systems so environmental benefits are mostly the certification of the micro-climate it is positively affecting the population and diversity of insects and the adjustment of water and nutrients in the general framework economic benefits are also quite important to be acquired from traditional agroforestry systems like timber, firewood charcoal piles and not wood forest products when we incorporate it in our systems fruit or truffle bearing trees but the most important maybe the most important is the social benefits that we get from the traditional agroforestry systems such benefits social benefits are referred to social cohesion and connectivity they support a variety of rural development resources they encourage farmers to make sustainable land use practices ensuring of human health infrastructure alternative food supply and mitigation of adverse effects on the environment improve job creation opportunities improve also public opinion on agricultural and forestry activities create healthy environment improve the landscape while preserving the traditional agroforestry systems the cultural value of a rural landscape is enhanced agroforestry is a rural activity that came from prehistoric times various stages of agricultural activity in Europe included the interplay of agricultural and forest exploitation the end of the Norlithic period at the beginning of the Bronze Age the forests in Europe were open by Xavana type we can see some representations on the right later when the woodcuts were stabilized some trees were preserved some trees were preserved others were planted for fruit production etc traditional agroforestry systems were present in all historic times here's a representation of the landscape of the surroundings of Ants and Olympia and you can see in Greece we can see here the integration of trees inside the landscape also in Roman times we can see the landscape how it was represented in this picture it is the case of Liguria and Italy in recent times traditional agroforestry systems were active in recent times in Renaissance here is the landscape that still exists in Tuscany where you can see elements of the traditional agroforestry systems and now we are coming to nowadays we are coming to nowadays talk about the traditional agroforestry systems I will show you some examples from the Mediterranean countries some traditional such systems like for example in France there are the Preverset grazing orchards but in the south of France they can also include crops olive trees walnut trees also in this agroforestry system it is very famous also for ecotouristic activities in Spain there is a peculiar type of agroforestry system that is traditional it is called Pomerada and it was found in Asturias here in the upper story you can find apples, pears, plums cherries, figs, walnuts and the ground crop it could be cereals, corn, sorghum and several other crops in Spain in Portugal of course we have known the Essas and Mondados that are very famous in all over the world about the peculiarities about the production and the support they provide to the rural economies of this country here you see where these systems are located in the Iberian Peninsula it is mostly found from the south of this peninsula also in Spain and Portugal in the Essas and Mondados we can say something about the single-pastoral systems that integrate that produce cork which is very important as a product that sustains the rural economy of Portugal mostly in Portugal but also in Spain in Italy we can say something about Seminativo or Pascolo Arborato Decido Soc single-pastoral systems occasionally combined with crops in Italy there are these fantastic systems that are traditional and still active they are called Piantata and Juare actually they are fruit orchards that are incorporated with vineyards and poplars Piantata is called in northern Italy and olives Juare which is called in southern Italy it is common the traditional agroforestry systems are quite often represented in these fantastic paintings of the 19th century that show us the increased the high cultural values for nowadays but also they represent that these systems were parts of the rural landscape of the countryside in those times in Greece now it is active the most important, most famous it is the Valoniaouk single-pastoral system that Anastasia will present you more later in her presentation we have some peculiar other systems like collarded mulch trees for silkworms you see also women working for producing silk mostly in the north east of Greece olive orchards they are often combined livestock grazing in the story also in the Lesbosiland you can find olives on terraces and also some peculiar systems that integrate geese in the other story or even chicken a collection from Pines Pines also also also also also also also also also also now after this journey to some examples of traditional forest systems let's focus on the issues δόσης της δτηθόνας εναράνησης. Α οπότε πάνω ότι υπάρχουν τρεις πιο μεγάλες δυο φορές που δημιουργούνταιστες της δρόμου της εναράνησης της δηθόνας. Το πρώτο είναι το Λανταβάνωμα. Το Λανταβάνωμα είναι ένα προσπρεσιοή αντικογένειο για να υπογράψει πια εναράνησης από τιςake των ετών που εύξενται στα Ευρωπιακάvas, Είναι εξεκτικό ότι πάνω από το 2030 μετά από πέντρες 5,6 μιλονούς επόμενης τριάδεες θα είναι μπαντωμένο. Η δημοσίμπιση αυτή είναι από την Βραμβάνια και την Κύριε. Βλέπεις εδώ στο αλευρό της κανόδας. Κοίτε, αυτή η εξαιρεία της Google Earth είναι λεπτά από την Ελλάδα. Είναι στο σύντομα της Ελλάδας. είναι ο Βατσουνιάκος, βάθει στην αλευασία του 480 μέτρους, και η ανθρώπηση είναι 415 χαδιτές. Και εδώ βλέπεις το κλανδίδιο, που είναι φόρνει στην ασυγγεία της κομμάτρας. Αυτές οι κομμάτρας είναι δημιουργές της κομμάτρας. Και εδώ βλέπεις το κομμάτρας, το απαγωμένο επίπεδο της κομμάτρας. Εδώ είναι το ίδιο κομμάτρα, και βλέπεις πώς αυτή η γεωματική, δημιουργή, είναι σχετικά κομμάτρας επίπεδο της απαγωμένης κομμάτρας. Και εδώ είναι το απαγωμένο επίπεδο της κομμάτρας. Μπορείτε να βλέπεις στις κομμάτρας που επίπεδο της κομμάτρας, και η κομμάτρα είναι πιο χομογενισμό. Another force for grazing the extensional risk of the traditional agroforestry systems is land reparsal and conversion into monoculture. Here is an example of the remnant of this remaining of bigger civil pastoral system that is still active in Kedros in Carvica in this village. και βλέπεις πώς είναι η σαρράντηση αυτήν την προστασία της γραφόρυσης στο μονοπάλτυμα. Αυτό που έχει αυτό το λασσκότημα είναι ο οποίος δεν είναι πολύ καλύτερο, ο οποίος δεν είναι πολύ ευρωμαντικό και δημιουργεί. Λίγο άλλο επίπεδο για να μυαλήσει το αξιδέξι, είναι η αξιδέξη αξιδέξη. Είναι ένα παράδειγμα, ένα παράδειγμα από Λεζο-Σάιλαντ στην Ελλάδα, ότι αυτές τις τρίες were chopped to provide firewood during the economic crisis for the local people. So let's talk a little about modern agroforestry in the CAP and how growth development programs include the agroforestry measure in Mediterranean countries. Portugal, Spain and France were included in this measure and activated this measure and implemented this measure from the very beginning of the appearance of agroforestry in the CAP. Η Ιταλία, το πρώτο περίοδο δεν αντιμετωπήθηκε, γιατί οι φαρμές δεν είχαν σκοτήσει αυτή τη δημιουργία, αλλά όταν οι άλλες περίοδες αντιμετωπήθηκαν τη δημιουργία, η δημιουργία της δημιουργίας. Αλλά στην Ελλάδα, δεν. Ανθρώπη, δεν. Η Κανδρία δεν αντιμετωπήθηκε αυτή τη δημιουργία. Είναι η ΠΤ, αλλά δεν. Η πρώτη περίοδο, το 2007-2013, οι χρόνια, οι δημιουργίες για την εμπληματική της δημιουργίας, were moved, channelized, για να συγγραφήσουν με τις δημιουργίες που έχουμε, για να αγγιούνται οι δημιουργίες στην Ελλάδα. Και η επόμενη περίοδο ήταν η κρίση οικονομική, και οι χρόνια και οι δημιουργίες were moved to another... ...to other measures. But this is about modern agroforestry, but no inclusion of tabs. It means that even the agroforestry measure that still exists in support of modern agroforestry, which measure unfortunately still does not support the inclusion, does not support the traditional agroforestry systems in Europe. Πτάω με την επίπεδο της τρανυσμής εαγραφότητας. Υπάρχουν δυο πρόσθυμες σολούσεις, αφήνωrogenο πιστεύω. Πρώτα, είναι να κάνουμε ένα σχήμα εντολικών ειδίτες, να πρέπει να ειδίτε όλα τα τρανυσμή εαγραφότητα. Τα υπάρχουν όλοι στον Ευρώ, όχι ή μετά την Ευρώ, αλλά και στο Ευρώ. Υπάρχει άλλη τρανυσμή εξοσύνη, για να συμβείται οι τρανυσμές εαγραφότητας καπ' εκοσχύνες. Ως καπ' must provide traditional agroforestry systems related provisions, and these provisions must be translated into member states' rural development programs. Καπ' must also must focus mostly, according to my perception, must move its central focus to include also land abandonment Πρόκειται να διασπαθεί με τον αποδομικό και σε ένα πολύ συμμαγιστρο τρόπο. Έχω εδώ... Παραγματικά, also 3 μιλών πρόσφυρων στο Μάρξ, γιατί, as Mark said before, and all of us are aware that 3 μιλών μορδιών είναι πολύ πολύ μεγάλο. Είναι ένας σχήθος που συμμετέχνει στο μιλό. Είναι ένας σχητικός σχήθος, και εκείνος, εξεγωγηγηγηγηγηγηγηγηγηγηγηγηγη. Οι πλαντές θα πλανθούν στην Ευρωπαϊκή, αλλά εκεί. Είναι το πρόβλημα, όπου αυτά θα πλανθούν. Και πάνω ότι κάποιοι θα πλανθούν σε τραντές αγροφόρες στο σύστημα να τα ριβηταλθούν. Τα τελικά, η προσφασία της τραντές αγροφόρες στον αίσθημα, που είναι ένας σχεδότητας σχεδότητας, που θα υποχωθεί σε τραντές αγροφόρες στον αίσθημα. Και κάποιες υποχωρές της τραντές αγροφόρες στον αίσθημα, είναι αντιμετωπές, όπως μεγαλύτερα τραντές αγροφόρες, τραντές αγροφόρες, πλανθούνιες εξατρίες και η εξαιρετική προσφασία της αγροφόρες, και σπέχεια, τα τραντές αγροφόρες στον αίσθημα, και τα σχεδότητας. Ευχαριστώ πολύ. Αυτό είναι το πρόβλημα για Ευραφ. Ευραφείς είναι η Ευρωπαϊκή Ευροπή, και εκεί, κάποιοι μπορούν να βρουν πολύ σημαντική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική για την αγροφόρες της τραντές αγροφόρες και τα τραντές αγροφόρες. Ευχαριστώ. Ευχαριστώ πολύ, Μιχάλης, για την εξαιρετική προσφασία, που βρήκατε όλα μέσα από πολλές χώρες, που βρήκατε πολλές εξατρίες, αλλά και πρέπει να πω ότι ψηφίσετε also the cultural button and the importance of the cultural landscapes, which is several times ignored. So thank you very much again for the 3 billion question marks you placed. I want to say that because Μαθίας Συγχώφιν, πρέπει να βγει στο 7.30. Μπορείτε να πείτε, Μαθίας, να εξηγηθεί ένα πρόβλημα που έχει been made to you, especially before leaving. Αυτό πρέπει να κάνει με αγροφόρια και σύστημα και τι μπορεί να μπορεί να είναι κάνει αξιέπτος του τουρισμού. Αν αυτό το τουρισμό είναι το only proposal that we have to revitalize these unique abandoned landscapes. Οπότε, μία βίντεο έχει φυσικά ράβει, μπορείτε να το τυποθεί το αδελικό αδελικό. Εκκλείται και πριν στα εύκολα. Ούτε, φυσικά λοιπόν είναι, βίω εχω σημερινό που μας μη βρήκε σαν τον επίεθος του τουρισμού στις εξεθείς της καταφέρος. Φυσικά δεν είναι το only option για να αναβληθεί την εξαιρία σε αυτά τα πράγματα σε αυτό που αγυρεθούν. Υπάρχουν δυο ευρώπιες να εμπιστήσουν τη δυοδοκρατία, όχι ευρώπιες ευρωπαϊκές πρόσσοδες, σπιτιάλτσεις, ευρωπαϊκές πρόσοδες. Υπάρχουν πολλές ευρώπιες όλες από Ευρώπη, που μπορούν να δείξουν όλες τις μοδές. Πριν έρχομαι από έναν αίσιο, που η αγανική φάμμιση έχει αρχίσει από έναν κόσμο number της φάμας στην κόρση Βοστρία. Τώρα, στην αυτή η ευρώπιση, Στην σημαντικότητα των φαρμούς είναι οργανικές φαρμούς και έχουν also produced specialties, they can sell for a better price in the region but also in special shops in the urban areas and this also helps to get more economic development and welfare also in these peripheries. Στην σημαντικότητα των φαρμούς είναι οργανικές φαρμούς και έχουν also produced specialties, they can sell for a better price in the region but also for a better price in the region but also for a better price in the region but also for a better price in the region. Στην σημαντικότητα των φαρμούς είναι οργανικές φαρμούς και έχουν also produced specialties, they can sell for a better price in the region but also for a better price in the region but also for a better price in the region. Στην σημαντικότητα των φαρμούς είναι οργανικές φαρμούς και έχουν also produced specialties, they can sell for a better price in the region but also for a better price in the region but also for a better price in the region but also for a better price in the region but also for a better price in the region. Στην σημαντικότητα των φαρμούς είναι οργανικές φαρμούς και έχουν also produced specialties, they can sell for a better price in the region but also for a better price in the region. Στην σημαντικότητα των φαρμούς και ζιόνες του να εφμηθή及 το κόμα της назвσης της ελληνικής σημαντικότητας. με τις θέσεις μου και με τις εργασίες μου μες εγώ και, φυσικά, με τις συμβουλίες μου πιο. Λοιπόν, είναι πολύ καλύτερο να είμαστε among οι άνθρωποι που really think or care about agroforestry και especially in the pastoral systems. Λοιπόν, as I said, I'm going to try, I try to be as confined as possible, especially in the... ...in the civil pastoral systems, so I would be more than happy. Can you see my presentation? Is everything okay now? Yes, just stop because before it runs all the... only one runs, so okay. I'm going to try to be short, but not that short, okay? Thank you very much. Okay, so I'm going to try to be short, but not that short, okay? Thank you very much. Okay, so I'm pretty sure that you have heard so many times about the definitions about agroforestry, so I'm not going to spend a lot of time just to point out the keywords. For me, it's quite important to stand the keywords. So here are a couple of quite popular definitions of agroforestry. So what I would like you to focus on is the words in red. So what is agroforestry? It's land use, trees, crops, livestock, same area, special or temporal arrangements. I'm not forward in the project that I have been working. I was happy to be a part of that forward. So we also have more or less concluded to a definition. Wooden vegetation, crop, livestock, ecological, economic interactions. Again, keywords. So another definition, which actually lately I'm starting, I'm hearing a lot about, you know, the concerns about the farm to fork and all the EU policies. And the bottom line is what we're looking for is, we're looking to maximum output to minimum entrance. So I think agroforestry is the answer to that. Agroforestry is the land use practice that is actually more or less, by default, is trying to take full advantage of the natural resources, respecting the natural resources, and try actually to take the mostly out of it. So how old is it? It is very old. And I'm talking about silver pastoral systems, of course. So based on Le'auru, it has been very, very old, especially in the Deranian region. And I'm going to play some emphasis, some emphasis, not all my emphasis to the Deranian regions, because it is a specific part of the world that, as you know, has been not so much affected by the Ice Age. So it has been a very traditional, a very old practice. And so in time has been really included livestock in the natural environment. It has been incorporated within the system. And as Michalis Brachnak showed, there are the depicts, there are paintings that actually present livestock silver pastoral systems in time, and especially in Roman. But also if you read the Odyssey from Omer, you can also read the description on some traditional agroforestry and silver pastoral systems. So it is quite old. How old? That old, through dinosaurs, taking into account that actually the pastoral systems are a system that actually livestock graze in the forest. So maybe we can say that. But well, no, this was just a funny picture that I thought it would be really lighting up my presentation. Because what is missing from this point is the human component. So, yeah, agroforestry systems are all a traditional system. And of course, it's an excellent combination of humans, natural resources and livestock. There are throughout. I think that the Mediterranean is an excellent example. It's an agroforestry system by default. So here you can see a very typical example of an agroforestry system, which is the Oasis. This is a picture from Tunisia. And actually usually people there after the end of the grazing of the cropping system, they usually use on the other ground, they use henna. And so at the end of the cropping system, they introduced their livestock to clear up the land. This is an excellent example. I have a great admiration of these people that they take a full advantage of the natural resources, of course, respecting the natural resources. Here you can see also many examples that we have studied in the Ag Forward project. And so this picture here, can you see also while I move the mouse, Riga? Okay. So here you can see a picture from Spain, which is actually from Galicia. And there they have this chestnut forest. And here are the famous Black Iberian pig grays. So there is a market for these chestnuts. But the point is that at the end, in or in areas that they're not available for people to go and collect the chestnuts, usually these are the ones that they have been used for the pig grazing. And another example of livestock grazing is down here, which is from Italy. And these are some olive groves, which based on the results we had from the Ag Forward project, it was perfectly actually being used afterwards by chicken. And here's another example from France. I'm going to show you this example again. So anyway, the point is that we have some very, very nice examples from the use of the synopastoral systems. So anyway, what are the synopastoral systems by definition? Based on the more recent classification by Maria Rosa Mosquera. That have been widely adopted actually, but by PK and IE, not other researchers working on agroforestry. So we have these more or less major types of agroforestry. The two most popular ones are the silvo arable, the ones that also Brahnakis-Meichals has presented and other researchers, and silvo pasture. What is silvo pasture? It's a combination of trees with forage and animal production. So it is in the forest or a woodland grazed or an open forest trees. Of course, there are other types of specifications in agroforestry. I'm just showing this and if someone wants to have more information, they can always read this article from Michael Dunherdon. Which was also from the forward project. So more or less, silvo pasture systems are traditional agroforestry systems. And the keywords that I have said before are the livestock that we actually, it's producing, it's giving a wide actually number of products. And which is nicely integrated with prins and shrubs. So it is actually, it's not so easy. Some will say, okay, so this is the pastoral systems that can always go and create one or make one. And this is actually one of the criticisms that there is on silvo pastoralism. I'm going to talk about a little bit further on that because people say that, oh no, as Martin has said, there's a difference between Northern Europe and Southern Europe. Okay, so silvo pastoralism is actually defined by the combination of the species, of the climate, of the system and the ownership. So it's not just one and one makes two. As I tell my students, we are more or less biological science. So in this science one and one does not always equal to two. Sometimes equals to zero and sometimes equals to 10. So actually, when you design and someone wants to design a silvo pastoral system, they have, he or she has to take into account a lot of factors. And so the silvo pastoralism are very generous in providing a lot of products. And like timber, fuel, anything that you can name, all the goods that actually trees provide. They have a lot of function and this is what makes them so important because they have a lot of functions that they're very important, especially lately due to the climate change, like water economy, like nitrogen, like inputs that I have said at the beginning, like shading and wind breaks, which is quite also important, especially because of the climate change. And of course erosion control and not mentioning also the boundary markets. And the animals, they are so important for pastoral systems because they provide all these goods, like whatever we, it's quite obvious, like dairy products, milk and cheese and everything, but they also do many, many other good things. What? They actually enhance organic matter, turn over and nutrient transfer, they remove these sprouts. They actually increase soil organic matter. And I think that's what's quite really important lately is that they reduce the under-storied biomass and subsequently reduce forest fire risk. Actually, we have done a work last year and it was quite interesting because we have used GIS and other interesting modern tools and we have more or less seen that in agroforestry systems we have less forest fire incidents. So this is a major issue, especially lately because of the forest fires problems. Of course, nothing, as I said before, in biological sciences like agroforestry and forestry, agriculture of course, one and one does not always equal to two. So of course we have problems. And what's the problem? The problem is that the animals may damage their generation and the trees. But this is what this management for. It's not like we're just going to introduce the animal, the livestock and then go. Of course everything needs to be attended and of course the management needs to be done. So for example, in Greece we have several of the pastoral systems. These are divided to the open forest. These are traditional ones with canopy less than 40% and grazible forest that three canopy is more than 40%. And again, this one plus one does not equal to example because some people say and some colleagues also say that, okay, are you suggesting that we graze the forest? Okay, if we can, yes, of course, if we can, not if we cannot. For example, after regeneration or any other type of treatment or the area or the soil is eroded or is actually prone to erosion, then no, we cannot graze there. We can only graze where we can and when we can. And this is again, this is what the management is for. So in Greece and also not only Greece and Mediterranean actually area, we have some different husbandry types. We have the village or the flock system. So we have the movement of animals from the upper altitude to the lower altitude. And actually this was so nice and it was enhancing so much the biodiversity and everything. And these are the husbandry times that they're getting less and less interest lately. And I think this is something that really needs to be preserved. So and take into account that Mediterranean is also the meeting point of three different continents. And that means that you have all these different species. So this luxury, this great biodiversity and great presence of different species that really needs to be preserved. So the pastoral systems, as I said, give a lot of advantages. And I think that these are actually the advantages that they have so much more importance lately because of this climate change. So you use a lot of space. You protect the biodiversity. You enhance soil properties. You increase, of course, production because the stakeholder, the farmer can have more income out of his land. And as I said, what's really important, lower forest fire risks. Of course, as I said, we have some disadvantages, but as I also said, this is what this management for. In management, you have to take into account these problems and deal with them. So lately, the forest systems are facing some problems. What are the problems? The problems is most in most of the cases that people are not so much into grazing. Young people are not so much into grazing. Sometimes they feel embarrassed to admit that they are shepherds. And they prefer to do some other type of jobs that they are more fancy and they hear better to the ear, like even work on the tourist industry. So this is one of the major problems of the pastoral system. So also to climate change, we have a lot of problems. So this is the land view changes. Sorry, but I was also in another meeting today and I was talking all day. Okay, take a minute break. Okay, and we have to know there are some questions in the Q&A chat room, but you can add more, but please do it directly to whom you want to be answered so that I can easily spread the word. So please send the message to each of the speakers and to combine probably some questions. Thank you very much. Anastasia, are you okay? Okay, don't press yourselves. Thank you very much. It is the fourth presentation of the day. Okay, we understand. Thank you. And I was given the opportunity lately to also look about the effect of the forest season to climate change in specific. So I think that agroforestry is a threatened lately in the pastoral systems of course because of the land use changes. Actually, we have also done a work last year and we have evaluated the land use changes in a sliopastoral systems in Greece. I'm going to show some pictures afterwards. And it was really amazing that I mean it is quite obvious because farmers prefer to abandon the sliopastoral systems and use the land for other more typical systems like olive groves. So we have this agricultural abandonment, which is quite affecting all mostly specifically the mountainous regions. And actually was surprised because I thought that there was a problem of Greece, but as I said, I took a glance on the literature and I discovered that this is a common problem, not only to Greece but to most Mediterranean countries. For example, I was reading an article from Morocco and they have the same problems there. I was discussing with some colleagues from Turkey and they said exactly the same problem. So it is a common problem and I think I hope that this would be also something to deal with from the policymakers and I'm very happy that we have some today. So maybe I'm just going to get some ideas. So, and Martin, you mentioned a new terminology, new normal. I love this terminology. I'm going to introduce another terminology of my own, knowledge flexibility, which means what? Who wants to listen to something new or hear it? We have organized many stakeholder meetings and it was quite obvious that we were telling the same things to people and some were listening and some were not. So the adoption of the knowledge was quite different among people. So this knowledge flexibility, it's quite important because no matter what we say, no matter what we do, if people do not want to listen, then it's for vain. So if we want to save the system, if we want to save the system, people have also to be ready to adopt these new or old systems and knowledge. So, for example, here is a picture from one of our experiments in the island of Kea, it's in the Aegean. And here you can see an abandoned before sylvopastoral systems and the farmer, the father of the farmer, he used to, the old time, he used to use this area to produce crop to feed his animals. So this hasn't been practiced for many years. So when we were then, when we talked about, and we gave him this idea of sylvopastoralism, and two farmers were quite interested in applying it. So you can see out of the 20 or 30 farmers, two were the ones that had the knowledge flexibility to hear, listen, they were very excited and actually they were very ready to adopt this new slash traditional practice. So as you can see, here he did it, he practiced it, these are the outcomes, here you can see, these are Valonia O, Verkousta Burinsis of Swiss macrolepsis, and here is the crop that he's going to use to feed his animals, his livestock. And here also you can see some pictures from Greece and here also the problems actually, this is a picture of the problems. Here on the top you can see an ex sylvopastoral system of Valonia O, and now the locals are actually cutting down the trees and they're converting into olive groves. Here it's also another picture from the other side of the same forest of this Valonia O, and here you can see that on the main, on the flat land, the farmers prefer to cut the trees and make it to turn it to agricultural intensive culture. Another problem of the sylvopastoral system is actually, so we have two extremes, we have the abandonment and we have the overgrazing in some cases. In this case also here you can see the abandonment. So here the farmers prefer to, they have left because it's not easily accessible because for some reason. So we have this understore vegetation, we have the foreign, in some cases some other species invading. So more or less we have problems of regeneration and we have been working for the past seven years in this specific area, and we're trying to find the answer why there is such a low regeneration in the sylvopastoral systems. Here is another picture of the same forest and you can see some goats grazing the trees. Some people say that they are not really so happy with the goats. Well, no, this is a part of the landscape. Goats have been there, have been grazing, they have been forever. I wouldn't dare to say I take the goats out of there. What I would dare though to say is, if somebody has concerns about goat grazing, then they should actually apply management so you cannot just leave the animals, livestock and live. You have to be there, you have to take care of the livestock and you have to lead the livestock. This is what shepherds are for. So, and other problems of the sylvopastoral systems is that you can see also here on the back, this is another sylvopastoral system, the oak from Greece, and they have cut down the trees and they have turned them to solar panel systems. So, over grazing in some cases, so loss of soil, abandonment on the top. Here is another beautiful picture of this great sylvopastoral system. Actually, I should say that it's one of the last unique sylvopastoral systems in the Balkan. So this needs to be preserved. This is the picture actually also, it's a very nice, it's a very Mediterranean and traditional landscape. And I should mention at this point that this forest was preserved, this sylvopastoral system was preserved because of the acorns, you can see on the lower picture that it has been a great trading in the past for the acorns and for the cups. Lately, there has been some efforts to revive this traditional practice, but again, people are not so, as I said, flexible, there is no willingness to listen to these flash new traditional systems. And these are some other pictures from sylvopastoral systems and also I think that these are pictures really the Mediterranean landscape. It's not Greece, it could be Turkey, it could be Italy, it could be Morocco, it could be France, it could be Spain. So this is a Mediterranean sylvopastoral system. So yeah, because we have to realize that the livestock is part of the system, it's part of the landscape, it's part of the tradition, it's part of our history. So just to show you how much these sylvopastoral systems are important concerning our tradition and natural environment actually. Here are a few numbers that I have collected first from previous research, so you can see in the of the of the whole agricultural area of the era you see in Greece, you have a lot, quite a lot area. The same with cypress, you have some public forest. You have the vegetation with coral forest and everything. And also from Turkey, you have also this forest from Turkey from Quercus. In Israel also we have the same Quercus taborensis forest, the tabor oak as they say. So anyway, the good news concerning the sylvopastoral system is that there's a growing interest lately for due to the environmental awareness. And they have to be included in the business forestation and also research project that they can provide many products actually they provide even back to our turf, for example. I mean, there are so many reasons to protect this forest that that so we have to do advertise these products if we want to save them. And so we have to, as I said, I think it's quite important to get in contact with the local people. If you want to save something, if you want to preserve something, you have to make it in accordance in collaboration and cooperation with the locals, the farmers. If they don't want to be involved, then I think that you have a lost cause there. And of course we have to make an evaluation, economic evaluation of the ecosystem services. So this is why I think I have placed in my presentation the importance of the educational projects. One project that we have worked on was the Agrofile-MM. It was an Erasmus project. And I think through this project we have been given the opportunity to come to get in contact with many farmers and present the systems. And I think that we did some good for this. For example, another one was another relevant training-based activity was in Hungary. And another Erasmus project, which is called Climate Change, is running right now. You can find it also on YouTube. We have been quite a lot of presentations concerning agroforestry and silver pastoral systems, of course. Anastasia, could you please sum up? You will have the opportunity to say more during the Q&A section. Thank you. Yeah, of course. And actually these are the examples. So here, the forward project, you can find if somebody wants to have more information of the silver pastoral system is generous. In general, you can find a lot of information. And just to conclude, I would like to point here. This is an experiment we had on the silver pastoral system. It was the same rationale. The silver pastoral systems in Northern Ireland, excuse me, here is Northern Ireland, in England and in France. Same components, output trees with sheep. Very successful in France, not successful at all in Northern Ireland. Meaning what? Management. You need management. You have to take into account, you have to know. So if somebody wants to have more information, we have the innovation efforts that we have produced for forward projects. So you can take a look at them. Also in the AFNET projects, a lot of leaflets and lots of information that anybody can use. As also Michael said, we have the European agroforestry federation where somebody who would like to have more information on agroforestry, he can go to. So you can see we have many information there as well in Europe. And in Greece also we have the Hellenica agroforestry network. So there are many, many associations and many, many locations that people can actually go and for information. So to conclude, for me, sound management is already needed to support and preserve them as part of our natural environmental heritage. So thank you very much. And I hope I didn't take a lot of time. Brigas. Okay, thank you very much Anastasia. I have to give a right, we are very pleased to have Martin here. And I give him the floor because he has to live in 8 minutes. So please Martin, you have also already three questions in the Q&A. So go on. Yes, I can do it. I unfortunately have to do it at 8 o'clock in the next event. Yes, just briefly about what was said. I really thought it was very interesting. And I would like to go back again. It's not just about Southern Europe. We also had traditional systems in Central Europe, which have disappeared in recent years. For example in Baden-Württemberg. And also with us, small farmers, why every village was a huge tree plantation. Old tree trees. And also among the traditional drinks that are difficult to digest. And therefore these trees no longer have value. You are happy now, that there are birds sitting there, but 20 years ago, that didn't have any value. That's why it's my thesis. That's also for all regions. We have to... I hope I can hear it now. We have to... We have to... We have to... We have to... Οι χαρδεία είναι εδώ. Οι χαρδεία εξοδοκρατήσουν και να κάνουν την Ευρωπαϊκή Εννέα Κέρος. Από την πρόκληση που έχω μόνο τα πράγματα που μπορεί να προσταθεί, προσταθεί όλα τα δηλαδήστια σέντε. Στον Ευρώπη έχουν τα δηλαδήστια σέντε, το οποίο μπορεί να έχετε μεγάλωση τρίστας. Τουρρισμούς, ρεκειονάληνες προσπαθείς, ρεκειονάληνες αμμακτώνα, μπορεί να κάνει μεγάλη πράγματα σε λίδα, με άλλες αικοπέδειες και προσπαθείς. Δεν είναι πάνω από όλοι οι μάχοι, αλλά είναι για την ρέγειο. Έχουν και αυτές τουςργίες. Οι πραγμές που χρήματα πραγματικούνται, πρέπει να είναι στην πρόκληση, για να πρέπει να παίρνει όλες το χώρο, για να μπορώ να ανοήθει. but that the people who are there are useful again. Otherwise, we also experience that in these regions, the pictures were indeed clearly intense. I've seen this in Portugal myself too. These regions were massively planted in Eukalyptus, because with these Eukalyptus trees Portugal has a big, big industry to produce paperwood. That is done with Eukalyptus and we all know what it is for για να υπάρχουν στους τελευταίων. Έτσι, αυτό πρέπει να υπάρχει σε αυτοί οι αλλαγές συστήματα, γιατί σε πολλές χρόνια, σε έναν εξαιρετικό υποδοχείο, είχε κάτι στους φωρές να υπάρχουν. Βραχήνες ρεγγείες, όπου είναι οικολλυπτές, αυτές ρεγγείες πρώτας είναι στην φλαμμότητα, αν πιστεύουν κάτι που συμβείται. Και μετά, πιστεύουν οι σπεκουλαντικές. Στην αυτό ήρθαμε σε αυτά τα οικονομία, λοιπόν, τόσο κατά τα ΕΟΡΑΤΕΟΥΟΡΙΑΣ. Αν το πρώτο κομμήμα, πρέπει να ακάμε αυτή τη δημοσυκλήση, για όλα τα οικονομία του ΡΑΛΑΔΑ, τέτοια δημοσυκλήση. Είναι η ευρώτη δημοσυκλήση της δημοσυκλήσης της ΕΡΑΛΑΔΑ, γιατί όλα τα δημοσυκλήση της δημοσυκλήσης' δεν είναι μόνο για τεχνολογία, but that they can also be used and in most cases there is also the two-storey for the development of small rooms. Because one point has been said by all, the young people are walking away and that is a huge problem. And that also has a lot to do with the fact that there is no work in the region that you can do that is easy. But it is exhausting, it has generated little income and that's why you have to see how you can get income back into these regions. Not only that tourists are happy about it, but how you can put tourism in connection with a sustainable agriculture in value. How can you, for example, also build crops? In any case, this is a thing that works well for us in Baden-Württemberg. For example, these old crops will be used to burn schnapps again. A point that has in many regions a huge boom for tourism. And that's how you do two things. You do that for the biodiversity. There is a use for the old trees and you have a value for the region because you suddenly have a brand with which this region is identified. It was asked after Ireland. Yes, you can actually in any country have such systems. Where it was combined between forest or hectares and agriculture, you have to promote this. Of course, there was also a Norddeutsche and there is this system with hectares, around every block so that they do not dry out, so that there is also use for the wood. And that's why you have to promote that, so to speak. But as I said, it is not because there is too little money. These means are there, also with relatively high funding from Brussels, with little co-financiation. What is usually missing are the actors. And I'll tell you honestly, the will of many governments to deal with it intensively. You rather concentrate on industry projects. You manage and you manage to create jobs with industry applications. And that's why it has not only in Greece, not only in Portugal, in many regions, not only in Romania, that these regions are disconnected from their development. And that's why young people move away in industry regions or even in other countries and look for jobs where they earn money. And I think that's a trend that is really fatal. Because I'll say it again, if we lose all these old resources, we lose a lot of knowledge. The next generation doesn't even know how to use it anymore. And a second trend, if we do combination projects. I saw that in South Italy. The old olive trees are falling. In addition, they are falling because they are complicated to harvest. Then you plant these new types of olive trees, these small, maschinell-earned olive trees, in a landscape where, so to speak, machine-crafted. And the same is also in farming, that this combination, which was always there in agriculture, is used by sheep and goats, that it falls away, because these old farming areas are no longer there, but they are still there today. Today, if you know Tirol, you know how the farm is being built, suddenly these completely rationalized, very chemically intensive construction systems move and you have to get away from them. And that's why thank you very much for the really interesting lectures. I really learned something. I really have to say, it has enriched me. We let it grow so much and that we also look so that we can get enough from the GAP, both for the second subdivision of these projects, but also for other regional projects. And we also have to combine regional projects, the GAP, with regional projects. We say that this is important, but we also have to develop such measures. να μας κroyουμε αλλά lightning we have to do everything in order to achieve it. Συμδεύουμε αυτό μαλλοντικά να να αυξήσουμε την αγγεία μας και μας, και αυξαίως να μας δημιουργήσουμε σχέση. Και υπάρχει κυρίως αυξαίως μόνο σκοφά μας, αλλά μας χρήσουμε πολλά επίσης από κλουγίκες και ιδέες και αυτό βρισκοφάνομαι υπέροχα. Αυτό είναι εξαρρήθιστο με την εργασία, που μας εντείνουμε να σε δοκιμίσουμε, με μεγάλοι οικονομοιούν της εξαρής, Ευχαριστούμε πολύ, Μαρτιν. Ευχαριστούμε πολύ, ότι πρέπει να βρεις, αλλά, επίσης, είναι πολύ σημαντικό να βρεις το κομμάτι της σωστικής κομμάτις αυτής το σημαντικότητας. Και αυτή είναι η δημότητα της δημότητας δημότητας. Είναι ένα πολύ σημαντικό πρόβλημα που δεν έχει been tackled, let's say, και πρέπει να υπάρχει πολλές διαφορετικές δημότητας που θα κάνει το δημότητας δημότητας πιο εντρακτικότητας. Ευχαριστούμε πολύ και θα πάω να πω με κάποιες μικρές διαφορετικές. Δεν έχουμε πολλές δημότητας, δημιουργώ να πω ότι Μιχάλης Βραχνάκης θα μπορούσε να σημαίνει ένα πολύ ωραίο διαφορετικό πρόβλημα για αυτοί που έχουν πωθει από κ. Εμμυν Σωτέα που είχε been in Carditsa also και είναι πρόβλημα για το συνεργατικό σύστημα της δημότητας της δημότητας και της διαφορετικής δημότητας. Οπότε μπορείτε να κάνετε ένα πρόβλημα σε αυτή, Μιχάλη. Ναι, δημιουργώ το πρόβλημα, γιατί δεν ξέρω αν έχω πολλές δημιουργώ. Από όχι, θα πω. Ναι, φυσικά θα προσπαθώ να υποχωρήσω ένα σύστημα της δημιουργίας. Οι δημιουργές είναι κομμάτια της δημότητας της δημότητας και της διαφορετικής δημότητας που θέλουμε να έχουμε, πρέπει να συμβεί το πρόβλημα της δημότητας. Αλλά να κάνουμε αυτό είναι πολύ σημαντικό να σημαίνει την αυτοίτητα, οι φαρμές να αυτοίξουν το πρόβλημα. Αυτό είναιgere το μεγάλι που αυτοί συγγή Taiwanese τώρα ο πρόβληματος το ίδιοowe είναι kötü. Vamos por sí. Στηνú νίσοο η Κοκύπα δήλω, και επαγ części τουσαλστεύω, αυτά είναι η đεού για πρόβλημαρό6 Promised… ότι, στους μετάρτεις, η επικοσυστήση δημιουργεί τις επικοσύσεις που μπορεί να επιτυχίσει. Είναι αυτοκρότητα, δημιουργεί να συμβαίνει τη δημιουργία τους, όλα αυτές οι ασυσκές που υποχωρήσουν την αυτοκρότητα, και η επικοσυστήση της περιοχής. Είναι πολύ σημαντικό! Τα πράγματα έχουν αφήθηθει σε αυτό. Και αυτό είναι για τα δημιουργία του ρεγιουργικού, για να υποκλείψουν τίποτα αυτές οι στιγμές, αδυναλισμότητας. Και να συμβουλήσουμε όλες τις αδυναλισμούς, ότι είναι μια ευκαιρία χρονωνική. Σας ευχαριστώ πολύ για τα ερώτητα. και είμαι καλύτερο ότι είσαι τελείωτος στην Καρβιτσα. Ελπίζω να δούμε την Καρβιτσα πίσω. Οπότε, όπως είχα also a speaker και βλέπω κάποιες παιδίες που μπορούν να ήρθουν από εμένα, θα μπορούσα να δείξω, μπορείτε να δείξω ένα ή δύο μήνες για να δείξω την παιδίες για τη δημότητα και ένα ανώνυμος έχει also asked about how do we ensure the solution is a protective insurance and not a degradation. And this is, my answer will combine these two, but the case in Ireland and the case in Cork, which both the one with hedgerows and the other there with the Asian native woodlands have been damaged because of some payment. I would say that biodiversity because we leave the two main crisis this time of the of the we are entering a very very dark probably a period and we have to tackle both crisis the global biodiversity crisis and the global climate change. So both we want both to do something for both of them and I don't see any deforestation of forestation or planting that has not taken seriously an account the biodiversity crisis. If we are going to plant eucalyptus trees in flammable landscapes we don't do really deforestation we do silly things we do things that we have been done again in the past and have been proved to be destructive for the natural environment. Biodiversity should be all over horizontally in all the pillars and all payments should be taken seriously in account. And this is so that because we have seen especially in the Mediterranean that agroforestry systems do not only support biodiversity but they support species unique for those agroforest landscape especially when they are when for example Asian trees are within them. So biodiversity we don't speak about a deforestation or productive deforestation without speaking about the need for economically viable landscapes either Asian or modern ones and of course biodiversity should be the thing that we'll judge if we want to go on with this or we don't and especially this has to do also with the islands where for example the terraces are collapsing because of payments and we don't want to see that going on. This is the reason why we put also biodiversity in the title of our book but also that we want to make this ash and landscape economically viable. So ash we have another two, three questions probably Pandera could make also a small note and about for example how we can proceed with these payments and how we can in a national level do some things because as Martin said it's the countries that should take some responsibility of how they handle the money that are available. Well it is as I said it's a matter of policy. Michaelius also said that he pointed out I mean it's in Greece we have been through also the Hellenic agroforest network we have done so many meetings and we have been in contact with so many policymakers and still we have not any response so far. Of course we do hope that something will change but so I think for me it's a matter of combination of also stakeholders asking for this money and also for politicians willing to hear this or realizing the importance because it's quite obviously that not all the politicians are farmers or agronomists or foresters and so sometimes it's not so obvious for them the importance and how critical it is to take some actions on that. So on the one side we need to educate, we need to tell people that it's quite for their own interest to ask for support for their systems and on the other hand we also have to educate or inform the politicians about the critical situation we are right now and they do need to take some actions because it's not only for one term it's not only for one year, it's not for two years, it's for the future and I'm teaching for a soil so in my first class I always tell my students that it takes hundreds of years to make soil but it takes only five minutes to destroy the soil so we need to take some critical messages to everybody to understand that we are presently at a very critical point and we need to take some actions. So this is, I'm saying this because maybe I haven't answered directly to your question because it's not a straightforward answer for me it's a spherical point and it's not just one answer we have to take certain and a lot of actions to move forward but again of course we need support because let's not, I mean I have been discussing with many livestock breeders also here in Carvenisi in the mountains Greece and it is quite obvious that in some locations such as here that remote locations it's not so easy for the livestock it's easy for me to ask for the young people to stay and keep their flocks and continue grazing and do the separate but it's not so easy for them to stay and it's not also economic viable to stay and keep their farms so we have to take this into account as well I mean as I said in my presentation, location, where we are what are the needs, what are the problems and I think also some of the previous speakers said that it's an equation it's not the straightforward answer it's an equation that needs to take a lot of parameters into account and conclude to a viable solution and a fair solution actually for everybody so if we want to keep these practices if we want to continue saving these practices because also somebody said that it's quite important to keep this knowledge to keep this wisdom, for me it's a wisdom and so if we want to take this wisdom and go continue and we have to inherit this wisdom to our children we have to take into account also these people and how these people are and what the situation they are and make this a viable solution Okay, I don't know if Dagmar from the organizing committee wants to make also a question and then I have another one for Michalis Rachnakis, thank you Thank you Rikas but just put your question and I will do some last summary if you please, thank you Okay, so Michalis there is a question about from Yanis Kazoglu and he said something which is also interesting sometimes we don't understand probably in some member states they don't understand how important and how valuable is the systems that are preserved by accident or not because of the political will and he said if a cross forest measure of measures of pillar two should somehow be imposed to member states so what is your opinion about imposing some measures that probably local or national priorities are not taken in account This is something that I have already think about it actually this morning I was talking with a friend with Kostas Manzanas and I told him that well Kostas I am thinking that maybe a directive the EU directive about agroforestry maybe it is important to launch because this way probably the member states will be pressed to apply to promote agroforestry but actually I don't think that maybe the directive is something very very serious to say but anyway I don't know how to do it maybe the first step is to run some demonstration plans some demonstration of the agroforestry in rural societies and then if the farmers see that these systems provide values then they press government it is a top down it is a bottom up process then maybe the government will adopt Ok thank you and last question has been just came up and this is an interesting one and it has to do with I want probably Pandera will be the one who can answer this and it has to do with the isolated pockets of asian forest and if we have like in Ireland the Andrew Legend is asking for but I know we have also in Greece this isolated pockets of asian forest and how are these if we have some examples that this agroforestry measure could do something for preserving and connecting this asian forest and if we have some examples of this in Europe or in Mediterranean Greece Ok well I just typed the link to the innovation leaflets of their forward project and I think that there anybody can find a lot of information of examples that they are experimental results which is quite important not just like my opinion whatever so we have been working for four years within their forward project so there are many people can find even because we have similar asian forest in Romania also as have been presented today so there are many examples that people can read and take some examples and some ideas and also there are also some emails of the people that they have been conducting the research so if they need more information they can go there just one comment for myself if we want to apply some management we have to look around us as I say I mean what have been traditionally been practiced there so it's not like what I'm doing here in Greece it's applicable in Ireland or in Romania but I'm pretty sure that there has been some wisdom some traditional practices some traditional ways that people have been doing there and I know because I have been in Ireland I have visited Ireland and I was we were the locals have presented us some traditional practices there so I'm pretty sure that there are some answers there but it's not that what I'm doing here in Greece is applicable in Ireland Thank you very much Anastasia thank you very much for the answer yes there are examples everywhere but probably small projects but there are examples and we don't see the willingness these examples to expand and I would say that even if NGOs for example local people are pressing for the preservation of landscapes for the cultural heritage for the biodiversity for the importance of tackling the desertification erosion problem or the importance for honey production or the importance of non-timber production all these stakeholders if they combine I would say forces you will see probably policy making changing and towards this that we say multifunctional and multifunctional agroforestry which is also the comment from attendee so Dagmar we already have been late 20 minutes and so do you want to end up this nice event making a final comment Thank you very much Rikas Thank you very much to all of you I can connect to Martin I learned a lot this evening and I am very present and aware and that fulfills me with great respect and joy when we talk about such topics when we talk about climate change then we come very quickly to the ground namely on our ground on our roots it is very important that we protect the land on it and in it we live and insofar yes every measure to protect our climate must also be flanked or accompanied by a social measure that has also spoken to Martin We are not talking about the last of a social ecological transformation that everything must always be in the eyes of the reality of life of people we all want a good life and that also means that we can actually live from what we do and I believe here just like you have now spoken to Rikas it is simply necessary that we all stand together and also do not let go of Yes, we need each one of us we need NGOs who support the citizens and also make pressure on politics Politics is comfortable, we all know that and goes the easiest way or the way of the money but that is not always the advantage for all of us and insofar it is necessary to make pressure and just stay on and what I really liked Anastasia was on your example it reminded me a lot of the small, spacious landscape here in the Middle Europe in my home country, Austria the differences are not so big and I believe that if we all pull the same string then we will also come a step further Efraestopoli, Michalis those were great inputs from you, I was really happy also to you Anastasia you just have to tell me I hope and we will continue this topic and continue and I hope to see you very soon either at home in Greece to be able to visit or to invite you to our event here in autumn Yes, Adiosas have a nice evening and continue Thank you Thank you Thank you everyone Okay, thank you very much I want to thank also all the attendees that they posed these nice and interesting questions I want also to say a big thank you to the organizing committee also to Klaus Merz who was in the backstage together Andrea and Dothi who supported the whole project and the whole work and to the other people that they make also the Greek English translation and to all the organizing committee and hope you see you again in the next event because probably we will present our book in Greek and in English we will talk about reforestation the productive reforestation and the revival of the living rural landscapes through agroforestry measures in the next probably meeting we have no idea when but surely we will come again on this interesting issue Thank you very much for attending Goodbye Goodbye