 Welcome to Adventures in Small Business, a collaboration between the United States Small Business Administration and its resource partners where we showcase Hawaii's entrepreneurs and small businesses. My name is Dennis Kwok. I'm the director of the Veterans Business Outreach Center. Today we actually have a very good guest and a special guest. Her name is Kate Ryman and she is the founder of Rogue Wave Toys. Kate, welcome to the show. Thank you very much. Kate's also a, you are also a client of ours and we recently met and had a chance to kind of, you know, kind of explore ideas for your company. Before we actually talk about your company, could you tell us a little bit about yourself? Sure, yeah. So I'm a military spouse and that is actually how I found you all. We were stationed in D.C. at the Pentagon and that's really where the idea started when we were on a family trip in the Pacific. And that grew and then we were stationed here about two and a half years ago and that, the idea kept growing and it made a lot more sense. I think the idea that I had almost existed in a silo on the east coast and here in Hawaii it felt like it really breathed new life and there was a lot more intensity around it. So I was grateful for the move to sort of jumpstart the business itself. Okay. So let's talk about your business. How did this all come to fruition? I mean, you were at the beach or what happened? Yeah, so when we were stationed at the Pentagon and we were living in Virginia, we took our kids down to the beach as we did very often. I loved being at the beach and there was a day where I was with my children and I had, I have two boys and they were pretty young at the time. One of them was playing on the shore with a bunch of, you know, conventional plastic beach toys just like every other family has. Yeah. And a wave came in out of the blue and just swept all of his toys out into the ocean probably about a dozen of them. And I've always been really aware of the plastic pollution problem. I've always been sort of tuned into environmental issues and sustainability. And so just this could not happen on my watch. I could not let all of these toys go into the ocean. So I jumped in and I was pulling out all these toys and finally got them all up on shore. And that back and kind of looked up and down for a moment and was like, what are we doing? You know, we have to make this better. We're using materials, we're using oil based materials in these products that are pervasive and I have to make this better. So it was sort of this light bulb moment for me where I realized this is where I can make a change. Yeah. I mean, it's a fascinating, I mean, it's not only a fascinating story, but it's got real depth to your product. I find it really great. So that's kind of the lightning bolt moment and then transferring that lightning bolt moment to a business. I mean, that must have took a lot of effort and a lot of challenges. Yeah. Yeah, it did because I, you know, had no background in this and the materials economy. I had to really learn a lot about it. I'm a writer by trade. So I was doing my work and then off times I was on the internet doing a ton of research and trying to figure out who to talk to about starting a product line. And who to talk to about finding the right material. And I think the, the one good thing, well, I found several good things in this experience. One of the best things I found is that people really want to help. And so I was able to just reach out to complete strangers that I found on Instagram or friend of a friend of a friend, you know, via email. That would give me suggestions or point me in the right direction or make an intro for me that I needed. And a lot of those concepts in the beginning fell through, but they really helped pave the way to get me where I am right now. So I think that was one of the greatest lessons I learned in the beginning was you're not always going to find exactly what you're looking for immediately, but you have to keep pushing forward. Yeah. And, you know, talking about, you know, things that didn't work out, you've kind of finalized what your product line is right now. We found the material that I think is best suited for the product after lots of prototyping and lots of failed prototypes and starts and stops. Yeah, we found a great material line that I'm really proud of and I'm really proud to introduce to the world via this product. Okay, maybe we can take a close shot of the actual product. Why don't you explain to us what this is? What we're looking at. So this right here is the sifter and we designed this so that the holes in the sifter were small enough to grab little bits of microplastic, which are so prevalent, unfortunately, especially on the windward side where we live. Wow. So I think, you know, before maybe like 10, 20 years ago, when you would go to the beach and you'd bring a sifter, you can have these like big, wide spaces for the sand to go through and you're catching like rocks and shells. Right. But I think now it's a totally different game where, you know, you have these really tiny pieces. I think microplastics are defined as like five millimeters or smaller. And we certainly have that on these beaches. When I was talking to my product designer, I wanted to be sure that we included a way to incorporate like actually sifting conventional plastic off the beach. So that's what that's what you're seeing here. So it's got a kind of a dual effect. I mean, it's not really for sifting through, I guess, shells and rocks, but you're actually looking for hopefully someday these will eliminate the need to sift for microplastics. But yes, for right now we wanted to incorporate that. That is great concept. Thanks. Yeah. And then our shovel. And the shovel, what I like about this is that there's that hole through the middle so that you can make a drip castle. Which when I was talking to friends and family with kids, they thought having an element to create drip castles is really important. So we included that in. And you have young children and mice? I have a nine and a seven year old. Okay. And they play, they love the toys. Yeah, they're, it's funny. My nine year old is like at the point where he's like, yeah, these are great mom. But, you know, he's kind of like moving on. Okay. What would you say the suitable age? I mean, I really think like as early as you can play on the beach to probably 10, 12 years old, you know, like, I mean, you, when you walk up on the beaches, you even see like dad's getting in on the building sandcastle. So I think the, it's for the young and the young at heart. For sure. Yeah. And it's, so you want to talk a little bit about the materials. I mean, what makes it compostable? Yeah. So conventional plastic is made from oil. I don't know if a lot of people are aware of that. But when you have an oil based plastic, there are a lot of problems with it to get to get plastic to be at a state where you can actually manufacture with it. You need to first extract the oil and then you need to refine the oil. And then you turn that into a pellet, which is just like a tiny little piece of plastic, pre production plastic. It's then melted and molded into whatever product you want to make. Extraction and refinement are among the top, they're in the top five for US greenhouse gas emitters. So super dirty process to create conventional plastic. And then we know now as we've observed that plastic at the end of its life, it just continues to break down, but it never fully disappears. Wow. So it's super dirty in the beginning of its life and it's really dirty at the end of its life. And it actually doesn't really have an end of life, right? I was reading on your website that it takes like hundreds of years for it to actually dissolve. And in the meantime, it's releasing toxic chemicals, it's killing marine life, it's leaching those chemicals into our water. So it's just pretty much a disaster. And I think that maybe the intent of the plastics industry was not to be harmful, maybe in the beginning, because maybe you don't know what you don't know. But I think now we're at such a turning point where now that we're aware of what's happening, it's really our responsibility to do better. And that was really the premise of this company is like, we've got to do better. We know this is terrible for our environment. We know it's terrible for us. Right. And we need to make a change. And so really the big driver for me is to bring this material to market so that people can see, hey, you know what? This stuff exists and we can use this as a viable replacement for our oil-based economies, particularly our materials economy. So this material in particular is plant-based instead of oil-based. And it is certified compostable, which means it meets the ASTM D6400 standards. Okay. It just means that it does actually compost and it leaves no toxic residue behind when it does compost. So I'm really proud of it. It took a long time to find this and to vet the material. And I'm really excited that we have the opportunity to bring this to a wider audience. Sure. I mean, this has, I mean, of course it is a toy, but it's got a very big social element like you were saying. And we're, I mean, it's been talked about how bad plastic is for the environment. And, you know, it's great to see a product that's actually doing more help than harm. So with that said, would you say that the mission, like your mission to create a, you know, a better product or a better place? Is that the mission of the company? So would you say that kind of mirrors each other? Yeah. I mean, I think the mission is really to make it better. So like reduce our carbon emissions, make better products using better materials and help clean up our oceans. That's really the goal of the business. And it's a great place to, I mean, you know, it's ironic that you ended up in Hawaii. Yeah. Because it is, you know, very poetic. It is poetic justice. Yeah. Okay. And how do you feel like, I mean, has the response been good so far with the products? And I know you've been on, you know, local television shows and everything. Yeah. And you got a lot of exposure that way. But maybe you could talk about, you know, what do you want this product to do in terms of how it helps the, I mean, the local community? Yeah. Well, the response to your question has been really fantastic. I think that what I've noticed as an environmentalist and a conscious consumer myself, I noticed that I sort of live in a world of sort of denial, right? Like I deny myself certain products because I know how harmful they are for the environment. What I didn't realize is when I launched this product and this campaign, how many other people felt the same way? Yeah. I got a lot of feedback from other moms who were so grateful that there was a product that they could purchase that they didn't feel guilty about. And so I think that just speaks to the need for alternatives to conventional plastic. You know, when I came up with this idea, that's really what it was. It was just my idea existing in my brain. And then when we did this marketing campaign around our crowdfunding campaign, that feedback was so valuable to me that there are other parents out there that feel the same way and want to see some sort of an alternative to convention. Yeah. And do you feel like, I mean, they're talking about other toys, but do you sometimes think about creating other kinds of toys that are using this? Absolutely. The beauty of this material is that we can apply it to, it's not just beach toys. Right. And really, this business is not just beach toys, but the beach toys are my entry point into the market, right? We can show people, hey, we can do this with beach toys. Where else can we apply this? And what a great place to start with beach toys, right? This is where we as humanity, we're enjoying the benefits of the ocean. Of course. The shores, you're combining those two elements where you can play and respect what the ocean is given to you. And I think the beach toys are just a really nice place to start. It is a great place to start. I want to talk a little bit more about your beach toys and about your company. I want to take a short break. We'll be back. Thank you. Hi, I'm Rusty Kamori, host of Beyond the Lines. I was the head coach for the Punahou Boys varsity tennis team for 22 years, and we're fortunate to win 22 consecutive state championship. This show is based on my book, which is also titled Beyond the Lines, and it's about leadership, creating a superior culture of excellence, achieving and sustaining success, and finding greatness. If you're a student, parent, sports or business person, and want to improve your life and the lives of people around you, tune in and join me on Mondays at 11 a.m. as we go Beyond the Lines on Think Tech Hawaii. Aloha. Hi, I am Yukari Kunisue, host of Konnichiwa, Hawaii, Think Tech Hawaii's Japanese program, broadcasting every Monday from 2 p.m. I usually invite a guest in Japanese language community who does interesting things, and I'd like to share stories with you guys. Please tune in and listen to Konnichiwa, Hawaii. Welcome back. My name is Dennis Kwak from V-Balk of the Pacific. We have Kate Ryman from Rogue Wave Toys here, talking more about your fascinating product line. During the break, we're talking about... We had one actual... You actually brought a product. Yes. We couldn't showcase today. Yes, we can't showcase it. Because it's actually a green, and we're working with a green screen. It disappears. It disappears in the background. But, yeah, it also comes... So it comes in a set. Yes, so the product is a three-piece set. It's the beach pail with the sifter. Yes, it would be here. And the sifter and the shovel. And it's a nesting design, so easier for parents because you can stick the shovel inside the pail, put the sifter right on top, and carry it. And there's little handles underneath for the kiddos, too, when they're holding big, heavy buckets full of sand and water. I really tried to... As proud as I am of the material itself that we're using, I really tried to address some of the pain points for parents, which is durability and carrying all of this stuff. Yeah, so there's functionality behind that. That's right. And do you sell anything else? I mean, besides for the toys? No, the toys are our first application, but we are going to be launching the sale of the material itself. So that anyone who wants to make a better product using better material has the opportunity to do so, specifically for injection molding. See, that's wonderful, just because it's kind of like open-sourcing and giving people kind of the palette, say, or the open canvas to their own products. Yeah, because really the goal of this business, for me, is to, as overused as the term might be, is to disrupt the petrochemical industry. I mean, we need to show that there are other innovative ways that we can solve these problems. I think that, as I said before, we can continue to deny ourselves these products, but the reality is I think the majority of the population is not always of that mindset. And so if we can start to replace conventional plastic with compostable plastic, then maybe we can, as consumers, take a look at the options out there and say, okay, do I really need this? Yeah. I think one of the interesting parts about a product like this is you're going to see a difference in price if you go to a store and you see a conventional plastic beach toy alongside a rogue wave beach toy. There will be a difference in price because the material that I use is much, much more expensive than an oil-based plastic. And so my hope is that the consumer says, why is that so expensive? And they're going to look and they're going to see. And then that right there is an educational moment. Now my consumer is aware, whether they purchase the toy or not, that their decisions have an impact and what they decide to spend their money on has a greater impact. So it's not just about selling a beach toy. It's about educating the public that there are alternatives and we need to be really actively seeking those out. For sure. And when you introduce a new product, especially with new materials, it's always got to be more expensive. When the solar first came on or when electric vehicles first came on to the scene, it was just very, very expensive. And you're going to have those kind of pain points as a business. Right. And I'm assuming you had a lot of pain points trying to get this product online. Yes. We've already had many. Well, I mean, could you kind of highlight something? I know that, you know, going to full production, you're going to have pain points. Yeah. And what are some of the things that maybe you can share with the viewers? What are the challenges you've had manufacturing? I think right now the, well, some of the biggest challenges I've had were just prototyping. That was really difficult. Sourcing the right material was really difficult. I tried out a couple of different materials that were just not. They're great materials and they have great applications, but not for these beach toys. So just finding the right material took, you know, almost two years. And then once I found it, it was trying to prototype. I knew that I wanted to 3D print the prototypes, but trying to figure that out, you know, that comes with its own set of issues. And the printers that I had found at some of the work spaces were too small for the design. And then trying to outsource the printing was cost prohibitive. So I eventually just decided to purchase my own 3D printer and 3D print the products myself. And that took a long time. I had to teach myself how to do that. And, you know, so now you're learning a whole new skill set. So that was a huge learning curve. And then I would say just trying to convince certain people that this is a valid idea. I spoke to a couple of sales reps who just, they were like, we would never, we would never rep your product because we don't stand to make any money from it and no one's going to buy this. So those are difficult things to hear. But again, going back to the marketing initiative that we had around the crowdfunding campaign, the comments that I received from parents who were really excited about the product gave me hope that yes, there will be people who will buy this. And it's just that because it's innovative and new, it's going to take a little more time to introduce this kind of a product to the world. And it's great that you have already, you know, a first adapters of people that are excited about your product. And I know we were talking earlier that you're actually taking pre-orders. Yes, yeah. Yeah, we'll be taking pre-orders very soon. That's awesome. Very soon. Yeah, it'll be awesome. I'm going to be one of the first people to actually buy your product. You better. I will be. So we talked about kind of the challenges you face and what about the successes? I mean, that's something, you know, something you take pride in. And I think the product and I think the goals and the mission of the company are, you know, you should be proud of that enough. But are there anything that kind of stands out like during your journey into entrepreneurship that you're like, wow, it's worth it. I've done it. I've done a good job. Yes, I had, he's now a friend of mine, but a former professional baseball player who reached out to me via Instagram. Just like a cold DM and said, hey, where can I get your product? And this was like before I had launched the crowdfunding campaign. This was just like out of the blue, he reached out to me. And that was like one of the highest moments I've had in this business where someone who was not a friend or a family, you know, someone who didn't know me previously wanted my product and was interested in the product. So I think that was a really high mark for me. And that's a good appetite. Very appetite. Yeah. That's a nice way into advertising. It's kind of the marketing. I mean, it's difficult to, you know, get a product out there, get it noticed. And you have quite a social media following. We're getting there. Yeah. I mean, it's been just a few months and we've grown substantially. And I would attribute that to sort of the organic movement of people, you know, searching these things out and then also a little bit of the paid Facebook and Instagram, which really helped. Yeah. The visibility for that. Okay. Where do you see, I mean, if we had to say, you know, three, five years down the line, how do you, I mean, how do you see your company grow? Is it by product line? Is it by exploring new kinds of, you know, avenues, new markets? I mean, what would you like rogue waves to be? Do you have kind of a vision? Yeah. That's a great question. So I sort of see it two ways. I see the beach toy line is sort of proof of concept, right? That people are ready. Consumers want an alternative and that they're going to support it using their dollars. And then I also see the materials line growing. When I started this, I had no mindset. I wasn't particularly set on one specific kind of material. I just wanted to introduce new materials to market. So I want to grow the options, right? Different kinds of materials. Different kinds of materials that we can use. I think this is a great start and I will continue to promote that and try and get this material into as many different injection molded products as possible, but open to bringing on new innovative materials as well. I think that the more options we have, the greater success we'll have in moving away from a petrochemical based materials economy, which I think is greatly needed. And I think Hawaii is a really interesting place because we're trying to do that with our single use plastics, which is really, really important, but we have a lot of other plastic based products that are not single use, but do have an end of life, right? So we use a certain product for a certain amount of time and then we toss it. Maybe we didn't use it once, but what happens to it then? So I think there's a great opportunity for us to change the mindset and then change the materials. This is kind of off topic, but Rogue Wave toys, how did you come up with that name? Oh yeah. I mean, just that day at the beach with my kids, you know, that wave that came in really out of nowhere and I was describing this story to someone and I said, yeah, it was a rogue wave that came in out of nowhere and then I was like, oh, that would be a great name. I always ask kind of veterans or kind of military spouses this question, you know, with your transition and, you know, because veterans or military members, they move a lot. How will your business kind of be able to transfer to another state if you were or another country if you were able, I mean, if you are moving? I think the nice part about this business is it's a problem that everyone faces. Plastic pollution or addiction to plastic, it's not localized. This is something that you can find all over the world. So regardless of where we end up and I really think it's going to be Hawaii, but regardless of where we go, I think that the application for this is truly without borders. This can be applied anywhere and I think it's going to hit home with anyone in any country. I don't know if I was talking to you about this, but I recently had a discussion about how they even had a study done in Germany where they're finding microplastics in beer. So, I mean, you know, this is not just affecting Hawaii. It's not just affecting coastal states in the U.S. And this is truly a global problem. You know, when I see innovation like this sometimes, sometimes I think there are companies that do it really well and companies not so well, but a lot of times they're ahead of their time. And that causes a lot of challenges just because costing is hard. Do you sometimes feel like, you know, I'm going to make this jump or I'm going to put this product out there even if, you know, I can't get it at the price point? Yeah, I do feel like that. And I often have this conversation with my husband where I say, I'm going to do this and if I go down in flames, at least I'm the first person like leading this charge, right? Because I think it's coming. It has to. We really don't have an alternative. Like we either make the change or we suffer greatly a lot quicker. And you can already see the effects of our consumer choices. So, yeah, I mean, it's been difficult, you know, those conversations with sales reps who are like, hey, this is never going to fly. You know, I have to, I think what I've learned in this journey in entrepreneurship is to be very careful of whose opinion I let in and whose opinion I sort of check at the door. And that's taken a while and I still don't always have that quite figured out. But I think those kinds of opinions are valid, but also I have to let them go because the mission for this is greater than what my sales rep stands to make on the sale of our product. So, you know, as you've told me and other advisors have told me, there's other ways around that, right? So it's just about, I think this is something that every entrepreneur goes through. It's just about how to solve the next problem, right? Because there's always going to be problems, always issues. And it's just like how quickly can you get up and solve it and keep moving? Some days that's easier said than done. But yeah, I do definitely feel like I'm sort of at the leading edge of this. And even though it's really difficult, that's where I want to be. Yeah. Well, it's a fascinating product and I think it's a tremendous value outside even the product and the educational element that you're putting out there, I think it does make everyone think. I know when I first actually saw your website and I was thinking, wow, this is actually fascinating. And I hope that, you know, the successes follow you. Thank you. I really do appreciate your time and you being here today. Thank you for having me. For those of you that are thinking about, you know, making a conscious effort and, you know, the environment and if you have a really important, I think you guys should definitely check out Rogue Wave Toys. You can go to their website at roguewavetoys.com and, you know, Kate's around. She lives in Kailua, so if you see her around town, say hello, introduce yourself and she'll definitely give you good information on her toys. I wish you much success. Thank you very much. Thank you for joining us today at Adventures in Small Business. It's always a pleasure and we will see you next week. Aloha.