 Good evening and welcome to the July Volunteer Forum, and we're coming to you tonight live from Bayswater Station. It's fantastic to be here yet again in a fire station, and we are joined by a live audience here tonight made up of members of the Bayswater Brigade and the Surrounding Knox Group, and it's fantastic to have them along this evening. So welcome, gang, and thanks for joining us this evening. I'm sure many of you are waiting to ask the hard questions as we go on throughout the evening tonight. We're joined by the group officer, Peter Shaw, who I'm sure is waiting to ask the hard questions as well. So I'm looking forward to that. Welcome, Peter, as the local group officer, as many would know, one of our CFA board members as well. So welcome, Peter, and thanks for coming along this evening. As always, I'd like to start the Volunteer Forum tonight by acknowledging the traditional lands to which we meet on this evening. We meet on virtually across the state and across the globe and pay our respects to Aboriginal elders past and present and pay and recognise the strength and resilience of Aboriginal people in this land. As always, tell us where you're from. A lot of people have started to do that within the chat and a big shout out to Sam from South Gippsland. We've got Hilton from Newstead and many others coming in from around to see Frankston coming in there. It's great to see a lot of people from across the state joining in this evening to hear what we have to talk about and the answers to the questions that will inevitably come in in the chat. Please, feel free. We are joined this evening, as always, by senior members of the CFA and our teams to ask and answer those questions in the chat. So if I don't get to them on air, there are a team of people behind the scenes that are going to try their best to answer those questions that you might be able to pose. As always, and as I said, when we do broadcast from an operational fire station, the tones may drop. And if that happens, please bear with us, whilst the local brigade does what they do best. But we'll continue with the broadcast. So please forgive us if that should happen. On the panel tonight, we're joined by our CEO, Natalie McDonald. Welcome, Natalie. Deputy Chief Officer Gary Cook. Talk to us tonight about FMR. I see a lot of questions already coming in. FMR and Natalie, I know, Spirit of CFA. We're going to have a bit of a chat about that. And we've also got Captain of Montrose with us. Rob Waters, welcome. Welcome. We're going to hear a little bit more about you a little later on and why you're with us this evening. So welcome, and that's fantastic to have you along. We also have Scott Purdy, a lot of our acrophos, and he's going to talk about the Australian Fire Danger Rating System and some of the changes that are coming up. And I know many of our members are very interested in those changes and what it might mean for you, not only operationally on the fire ground, but in terms of community education, public messaging and all things fire and incident management related. So I look forward to hearing Scott to give a bit of a rundown of that. And he's got some slides to show us this evening. Spirit of CFA, Natalie. So I was just recently on leave. And again, I'd like to thank Deputy Thompson for acting in my stead. But you held a very important ceremony at Ballarat recently. Tell us all about it. Yeah, it was look, it was fantastic. And it was really four years worth of awards that we were awarding because we do the spirit of CFA every two years and we'd missed 2020 because of COVID. We were very determined not to miss 2022 because of COVID. So the awards went ahead and we were effectively recognising four years worth of service to CFA. The great thing about the Spirit of CFA awards is that they recognise people from right across the spectrum of CFA. It doesn't matter whether you're a volunteer, a secondi, a staff member, people involved in community engagement, community education response. And that Rob was there. There are a number of other people. Peter was there. The stories that we got to hear about of normal people doing extraordinary things, which is really what the CFA is all about. And the stories were amazing and it was really humbling to be there and listen to some of the things that our members are doing to keep their communities safe. And Gary, you've been around for a while at CFA. What does the spirit of CFA mean to you? Oh, look, I think it embodies everything about CFA and what our people contribute at all levels. It is really recognition of people who have made outstanding contribution. And whilst some people are awarded the actual win, I guess, in those processes, there's a whole heap of people that have been nominated. And the recognition of some of the great programs, it's a way of sort of boiling some of those things up into the visibility of, I guess, across the state. Because something might be happening up in the Northwest that's not known necessarily more broadly. And it gives that opportunity for that to be exposed. And talking about recognizing fantastic people, Rob, you were here and you received the 2022 Excellence in Innovation Award at the spirit of CFA. And I'm afraid this is going to be a little bit like, this is your life. Because I will, I want to give a bit of a, I guess, read an excerpt of why you were recognized. And you spent the last five years developing a strong health and well-being program within your Brigade. And I know we've spoken previously at your Brigade about how important a health and well-being is. We're named to build resilience in your members. Each month, the Brigade Training Session is dedicated to an aspect of well-being to help raise awareness and to educate among Brigade members. And over time, this has helped reduce the stigma, particularly around things like mental health. Do you want to tell us a little bit more about what it was all about? Certainly, we all, I suppose, originated from a group of us five years ago wanting to train together in a gym. We had a PT come to us at our Brigade and said, yep, we want to train him. We did this and there's a bit of a light bulb moment that said to us, why aren't we doing this in their own facility? And what we did is we created a well-being facility. We went through the hoops of CFA to be able to build this facility. And it doesn't sound like much when you're talking to people in the community about building a gym or a facility. But in CFA, it's actually a big thing having a gym on a fire station. We built the facility. And what we actually saw from actually building this facility was a whole host of improvements. We got at the door faster because we had people training at really weird times. At night, during the day, we had improved daytime response. But also, we had improved camaraderie between the group. And everyone wanted to train together and support each other in their goals and their personal goals. But the extension of that is not just about the physical health, but it's actually about the mental health and the well-being. And we actually saw, I actually noticed probably about four years ago, that the resilience in some of our members were low. And it was mainly to do with some of our younger members. So we actually, our B&T got together and had a bit of a chat about what we're actually going to do to look after our team and our members better. And we've got a duty, we've got a responsibility. And I guess our theory from a Montrose perspective, there's a correlation between a high-performing brigade and a brigade that has a great well-being. So if you can mix your well-being with a high-performing brigade, you've just got these incredible ingredients to do some great things. Absolutely. I sincerely hope those hoops were hula hoops as part of your physical... So on the VESIP Grants, I certainly welcome everyone, if that's okay and early, to apply for well-being facilities and invest there, because they're certainly, you're actually giving back to your members. That's just another investment point. We talk a lot about debriefing, operational debriefing, speaking about what our experience is, what happens and the rest of it. Have you found, I guess, and what I'm hearing is it's sort of expanded beyond the operational, like, into just the general health and well-being of your members and their day-to-day issues that they may be facing? Yeah, absolutely. Like, I look at it probably a little bit differently from just putting it at five. We're much bigger than that. I mean, we're a community-based brigade, and we're challenged by everything that a normal person in the community would be challenged by. But through our operational response out there, and we've just increased it by 50%. So we look at it from a perspective that if we can invest back into our members and remove some stigma, build camaraderie, think about the things that are really important to us, not just from a fabricated perspective, but from a living perspective, eating well, clean eating, team building, improving our resilience, improving our mental health, we're much better people for it. And I think that's done us really well, especially over COVID. We've stuck together pretty tightly as a group. So Natalie, you and I have come from rural roots, particularly yourself, far west Queensland. How important are mental health issues and support similar to what we just heard Rob talk about in the community more generally, and I guess flowing over into the CFA space, from your perspective as CEO, particularly when we are seeing instances of CFA safe surrounding that psychosocial. Yeah, look, absolutely critical. And I say that, not as a CEO, but actually as a human. Absolutely. Having been out at Horsham last night and meeting with the District 17 VFVV group and hearing, particularly in some of the rural areas, and it's not limited obviously to that district, the challenges that COVID has brought, I mean, it's brought challenges for all of us, right? But if you couple that with now supply chain issues, you can't get a four wheel drive for years. Any number of issues, too much rain, not enough rain, isolated from a range of medical supports in some rural communities. And in a lot of our rural communities, the CFA is the only institution in town. That's right. And so I think the opportunity to spread that message about the importance of mental well-being and the fact that we know that health statistics point to significant challenges, particularly for males in rural communities in talking about issues. I think the importance of us all looking to understand what support CFA can offer into the community. Absolutely. And how we work that through. And I certainly heard that message last year when I first arrived at CFA and we were visiting Jason, some of the rural communities that have been really badly affected by the fires. And the mental wellness challenges for those communities was very real. And the importance of the CFA doing what it could to help in that was really obvious. So I think it is something, we've got a lot of supports available. We need people to talk about it and make, you know, take access to those things. Absolutely. So speaking of I support available, Gary, your portfolio looks at response and coordination. Do you want to highlight, I guess, from some of those support functions within CFA that are available to our members, in particularly to, you know, if they are struggling or there are some issues and how they might be able to get some help? Yeah, obviously our well-being support, both in our people, but also through our well-being hotline, just gives people access to a whole range of services. And look, I've spoken to people that have, you know, been a little bit at a level of trepidation about reaching out, you know, for fear of, you know, I'm actually reaching out. But having done it, you know, they just say it was such a rewarding experience because it once actually made that call, actually were tapping into help and didn't realize just exactly how much help was there. So, you know, that's the more confidential way, of course, our peer network. And, you know, in the 2019-25s, we embedded peers that went with our strike teams into right throughout New South Wales and obviously the fires in the northeastern in Gippsland. And that became very much part of the doctrine that people were looking for and engaging with and really embracing the embedded support that went with that. So, you know, looking after our people, as Rob's outlined there before, I mean, it's such a fundamental part of what we do and it must be always at the front of your mind. And, you know, if anybody is struggling at any time, you know, the service is there and, you know, just make sure that you reach out and use them. Yeah, and Rob, Gary touched on, I guess, that reluctance to want to reach out, to want to talk to someone and the like, has that been your experience as a captain in your brigade? When we first initially rolled out the program, there was a, we put a document together to explain what the pros and cons were for it. And I think there was a bit of a reluctance at the start because people didn't really understand what we were trying to achieve. It's not about getting out in the gym and doing some physical work. It's everything but that. There's an element that we have in our program that's around the physical side, but it's more around the fundamentals of looking after yourself. And I have to say, probably the greatest drivers of well-being is our younger generation coming up. They are absolutely in tune with actually thinking outside the square and looking after yourself better. And what it actually does is by having a program that looks after yourself, it actually is an enabler for some of our senior members to be able to talk openly about their experiences. And in time, it's actually, it allows the walls within your fire station to be immune to it. You can talk freely about well-being and healthy lifestyles without having that stigma of someone's gonna judge me. Absolutely and that's just so important, isn't it? So look, Rob, lots of chat about you and your award and many people congratulating you on the initiative and your brigade as a team effort on your brigade and your achievement. So congratulations once again and I think it really does show the spirit of CFA in that innovation aspect. And I wish the brigade all the best into the future and hope to see more awards issued for Montrose into the future. So not a problem. So we have a question that's come up and Jacob's asked that most CFA FRV integrated stations have gyms or areas for some well-being exercise. Would the CFA be interested into booking into sharing these facilities and these stations? Natalie, thoughts? Well, I think our focus at the moment has been on getting the tenancy. That it has, that it has. In place and I think we're nearly there in most locations. But look, I think both ourselves and as I think we've said before in this forum, we meet, Jason and I meet every Monday afternoon with Commissioner Block and his deputy secretary and we are very happy to raise issues where we can do things jointly with FRV. It's important, we're complimentary fire services and it's very important that we look for opportunities to share resources where we can and we're appropriate. So we're happy to take that up and... And there's been some, Shane here says, you know, gyms in most color cater stations are shared by FRV and CFA volunteers and that's fantastic to see. Look, Rob was one of the winners of the spirit of CFA but there were many fantastic volunteers recognized and celebrated for what they bring to our fantastic organization. And no less, Living the Values Gold Award went to Peter Clarkson for Empathy and Encouragement for Inclusive and Diversity. He's a current volunteer at Cobra and a former captain of Diamond Creek and we were out at Diamond Creek not that long ago. And we've got a little profile video here. We've got all the profile videos of all the winners of the Spirit of CFA Awards are available on our website. So I do encourage everyone to get onto the website, watch the profile videos, hear about the fantastic work that our members have done. But here we are tonight, we will show a gold award winner for Living the Values, Peter Clarkson. Proudest achievement was when I was elected as captain of the Fire Brigade five years ago. I wanted to make the brigade a place people wanted to come to and to come down to and I also wanted to make the brigade more diverse. Peter has always been really encouraging of all members but he does take a particular interest in building the confidence and skills of women. His own daughter is one of our top responders and a highly valued member of our team. I think for me, one of the things that stands out with Peter and his leadership style is his openness and willingness to discuss mental health and wellbeing. That's something that's really positively benefited our brigade. You don't expect to be nominated and end up winning awards of this calibre. But yeah, I am so honoured in regards to be able to represent CFA over the past 20 years of my life but to be able to bring my family in as well. What a fantastic video and congratulations again to all our winners of the Spirit of CFA Awards. As I said at the start of the forum this evening, we are at Bayswater Brigade and I know the captain here, Kim, ascends her apology. She couldn't be with us tonight but she has sent her first lieutenant in her seat. Jamie, welcome Jamie to the panel tonight. Although standing to attention is what I do like to see. They drill them good here at Bayswater. And one of the interesting things with Bayswater, as I've met Kim and spoken to Kim, but you've had a female captain here at Bayswater for quite some time, haven't you? Yes, so we had Diana Ferguson before Kim. She was captain, I think, nearly eight years and then Kim has been full-ass for, so yeah, it's quite a normal thing for us here, so that's good. Fantastic. So tell us a bit about Bayswater, your area, some of the jobs that you do and what you do in your local area. No, so we're a pretty busy urban brigade. We respond to about 450 calls a year. A big part of that also is our BA van, so we're well known across the state for our BA van, so it does about 80 calls a year. On top of that, we provide a lot of servicing for brigade training, so we're out and about most nights in the winter period assisting other brigades, providing BA training. And a lot of on-station filling as well, so our BA van keeps us very busy. We do about 2,000, I think it was 2,800 cylinders last financial year, and that's a mixture of on-station filling for our local district and then out and about, covering a big area. We have about 70 members, a junior brigade, which is quite, well, nearly about 15 or 16 members and that's growing recently. And then about 40 operational members and a number of support members that support us in our day-to-day stuff, from fundraising to secretary, all that sort of stuff, so yeah. Fantastic and, I guess, my very first introduction to Bay's Water was, I think, pretty much on day one. Day one of day, actually, I think it was day two when I came down and did my entrapment drill and was showing the ways of the CFA to make sure that I was fit, tip-top and ready for Art to go out into the season. So certainly, you know, a little place for Bay's Water in my heart for doing that for me on my second day. Jamie, some questions, there's always questions and you haven't avoided it this evening. Shane asks, does Bay's Water fill FRV cylinders? It depends on the job. So the smaller jobs we find that we do and some of the bigger jobs, it really depends on when our BOVans call. So if it's a CFA-like support job, we had one just up the road the other day where our BOVans supported the whole filling of FRV and CFA and it really depends if 38's on its way out, that sort of stuff. But yes, we can fill and we do fill often and work alongside FRV. So Bay's Water is probably a unique brigade in that in a lot of ways, your brigade area is an island in an FRV district. Tell me about, I guess, interoperability and how you get along with attending jobs with FRV. Yeah, so it's not new to us to have obviously staff coming to all our jobs. We've always had MFB Croydon and Ringwood on one side and then our career CFA or CFA station in Baronia. So it wasn't a big change for us. We work day-to-day every call, every code one call under Bay's Water. We're supported by two of our staff trucks and then we have obviously our calls or supporting FRV to their areas. So we work quite well together. Yeah, on the fire ground, we're often second on scene, if not first in our area and we work very well with our counterparts. That's awesome to hear. What would you say is probably the biggest challenge for Bay's Water moving forward in the future? Well, probably recruitment and training. We struggle with a few people getting on courses and stuff, trying to get up to our level because obviously we need to have our members up to structure fire fighters. So this is that time it takes when you onboard someone, they go through GFF and then getting on to all the other courses before they do their full structure course. So this is the delay it can take to get them to that level. It's a big challenge for us we see, but otherwise it's not too bad. CFA's going in the right direction, I think, so it's good. Excellent, and there's a bit of a unique feature in this station that I know you've shown me previously and that's the business hub concept. Can you tell me a little bit more about that? Yeah, so we had a lot of input into our station design and we like to promote members being able to utilise our station during the day. So a long time ago, daytime response was a big issue for us. So we identified that when we built our station, we contributed to the build and in front of our station we got a nice business hub, so it's set up for hot desks. So our members who have the ability to work remotely can come down to our station day-to-day and work from it, so Wi-Fi, big photocopy of printers, everything available for our members. Works quite well, we have a number of people sort of rotate through the week, so there might be one or two during the day and then we're lucky we have actually a good daytime response with the industrial area, a number of business owners and that too, drop what they're doing and come out and respond. So we actually do quite well with our daytime response since concentrating on that in the last five to six years. Yeah, awesome. So we touched on the BA van, but we are here in District 13, we're part, you know, we're in Knox Group. There's something very peculiar to the Knox Group and the surrounding brigades in the services and the unique things that each brings to the table. You know, Bayeswater has its BA van and can you tell me more about, I guess, some of the other specialities that the brigades in the group can bring to operations across the state? No, I'd say Knox Group has been well known for many years for its specialist appliances. So we have obviously Scoresby's hose layer up the road, they're a very strong brigade with their hose layer that supports anywhere across the state. A long time ago, well before my time, the group identified that they needed to cover a number of different specialty appliances. Montrose has their flare off vehicle and the number of the older support units that were around that have changed, but it's well known that Knox Group get out and support anywhere they need to go. That's awesome. So Bianca asks, how many vehicles does Bayeswater have? No, so we have our slip-on, which is a fully funded brigade vehicle and our BA van, which was fully funded before the current one, which was built probably three years ago, and then our nice medium pumper and our 3.4 seat tanker. So the four vehicles here. Probably a question I'll ask yourself, Jamie, but Gary, you might, we'll probably want to jump in here on this one. And the question's been asked, what will be the impact of GARs on volunteer brigades once implemented? And I think you spoke about working with MFB previously. So what's your experience, I guess, of the greater alarm response protocol? And Gary, you might want to chime in, because I know you've been doing a lot of work in that GARs space as well with the inception of FRB. I think the GAR system has a lot of potential to improve a number of things, because often when you arrive on scene, you can be overwhelmed sometimes. So when you make that call for a second alarm, you're getting some of those support units that you might not think about until later in the job. So it definitely will improve in some things. Sometimes you might have more equipment than you need and it's sometimes better to have that, but you just cancel it en route or decide that it's not required. With the BA van or our pumper, we've always been a part of GAR's response supporting ringwood and Croydon, so we often get a run a fair way. We went into Mitchum a couple of months back for a school fire, that's probably the furthest that our pumper's gone in for a GAR's response, but it works well for them. They get a lot of gear there sometimes, maybe too much gear, but you can always cancel it and send it home. So I think it does have potential to work well within CFA as well. That's awesome. And I go, you've worked with FRB around GARs, bush and grass, which recently saw CFA resources being dispatched into a grass fire, you know, not less than five Ks from the CBD of Melbourne. Yeah, certainly on New Year's Eve, right in at Maribyrdong on the old Defence Force sites in there. So that was probably a fairly unique thing, but yeah, look, for the brigades on the former MFB fringe, GARs is not anything new. Last year in Western District 2, which took in Sunbury and Melton, so those former two brigades and out into District 14 and actually had touch points into District 7 and also District 15. It was a little bit new. So quite a bit of change management required there. And I think the important thing is for our two operational communications team. So our team led by Jason Lawrence and the FRB team, just working through to get the lineups right. That's the important thing. So we, you know, it's, I think it's got a whole heap of benefits if it's done right, that's the key, the evidence is there. I think, you know, when we push out into the more regional areas, so if you go to a, you know, Shepard and Wangaratta, Wodonga, Mildura, a lot of where we had our former integrated brigades, the co-located brigades and how any sort of GARs model out there would work into the future has got quite a bit more thought to go through it. But certainly the next area, Southern District 2, and I know Jamie Hansen and the team in district data been working closely with Greg Christensen from FRB and the team down there to look at how the GARs roll out will work. And, you know, they're really close to being able to cut over into some of those spaces as well. So, yeah, I think it's, you know, done the right way. And as has it been proven before, it can work. Awesome. Thanks, Jamie. Please pass on our thanks to Kim and the BMT for allowing us to come and gate crash at your station here this evening. It's greatly appreciated. It's been fantastic to hear about Bayswater and the services that you provide to your community. And we'd like to thank you for you and your members for what you do. So thanks for coming along this evening, Jamie. Thanks, thank you. Natalie, how, I guess, how great is it to hear you know, of the cooperation, I guess, amongst the services by our brigades and particularly when, you know, we deal with these matters day in, day out, when, you know, you hear how it can work and how it does work. And when our members are on the ground, you know, really do cooperate. Yeah, look, I think we were just having a chat, you know, before the session about that experience here at Bayswater. And, you know, we hear lots of stories where it is working well, but we also hear stories where it isn't working well. And we're always interested to hear about both those sides of what happens. But I think the important thing for us all, and I know our members absolutely have this in their minds is we're all here for the community. So ultimately, what we want is the community response that is the best response for the circumstances there. And we'll continue to work on that from a systemic point of view in terms of when it doesn't seem, the rules don't seem to be supporting that. But from, you know, from the community's expectations, what they want is the response or the support they need. And I think it's important that we just keep that always at the centre of our decision-making. Absolutely. Gary, there's a question here about, will FOVs be included in GARs? Certainly in the grass and scrub tables, they will be because, you know, if we mobilise strike teams or, you know, tankers groups of five in the GARs model, we'll want to make sure that we don't, that's that doctrine piece I was talking about before and making sure that whatever goes into the line-ups actually matches how we undertake activity now. So certainly that experience at Maribyrnong was a good one to look back on. There was a couple of other fires out at Mount Cottrell in District 14 and also one out at Pakenham, which we were sort of all in that three or four days around New Year's Eve, early New Year. So, yeah, absolutely, FOVs need to be part of it. Absolutely. We have another question from our audience and we have Alan up this evening with your question. Thank you, Chief. I, at Bayswater, look after hose and BAs. Probably because I'm getting too old to get on the big red truck. But anyway, hose. My question firstly is, and I've heard that it may be being looked into, but our Duraline hose is a disgrace. I've got new lengths of Duraline that the layers separate near big bubbles in those. Who makes a decision to buy white hose and what sort of guarantees do we get? Like, can I send it back and say, give me another length? Do we have to pay again? That's one question. Well, I think it's an absolutely fantastic question and I know we have Danny Jones online this evening and I know he would be very interested in that. So one of the things I would say is make sure that it's reported to your district office. But in terms of if it is a deficiency in the product, absolutely we should be talking to the manufacturer, talking to the supplier and getting that rectified. So if it is an identified systemic problem and from time to time manufacturing issues occur, that's why there's a whole recall process for any product that's released within the community. So I'd be very interested to get some more information on that because I think if we do have an issue with our Dural Line and the hose, we do need to be talking to our manufacturer, talking to the PE department to get that addressed. I don't know, Gary, whether you've heard of it are happening before? It's the first I've heard of it, but it's not the first I've heard of hose having problems, like from a manufacturing fault point of view, but it's the first I've heard of the Dural Line one that Alan's just raised. And number two? Number two, again along the same lines, and again, this is with the BA van, we get issued with Chuck's cloth to dry the face mask, which is not very good. Some of the cloth we get, I could hold it up like that and I could see all of you quite clearly. You can poke your finger. It's a bit like that cheap toilet paper you get. Your fingers. Who makes the decision and who says what quality we should have? The Eltham support unit, they have a different sort of material, a hundred times better. Yes, it's a Deera, but we'd only be using one sheet instead of using two or three sheets. Who makes, do they just buy it because of price or does someone say, well, what are the guys out in the field need? Not what someone's sitting behind the desk at. Yeah. The center saying, oh, no, this is cheaper, we'll get this stuff. I certainly hope that's not happening. Looks, good question for our PE department again and I know Danny again will be listening. BA falls within structural planning, falls within your portfolio, Gary. So I guess what are your thoughts to the issues that Alan raises? Well, understanding how important it is to actually make sure you've got the right products to, particularly when it comes to face masks and the hygiene of face masks as you well know. So I don't know the answer to the question you've asked. I'm sure Danny will be jotting down some notes as Brett probably will be as well. So we'll follow that up. And I guess what I'm interested in is how we've actually got two standards because ultimately that's probably a question that falls out of that question you've raised. Absolutely. Well, thanks for raising it. Alan, I'm sorry we didn't quite have the answers for you tonight, but it is very important. I know the people that can make a difference for you are online tonight and listening. So we'll circle that back and get it back to, I'm sure Peter won't let me forget. So we'll get that answer back to Knox Group so that you get an answer to your questions. So thanks for asking Alan. Okay, thank you. Gary, another question here for you and your area. So Hilton sort of says somewhat off topic, but that's okay. We like to go off topic now and then. So he was happy to wait, but I think it's a good time to ask, can someone provide an update on the mobile data terminal project that we announced some time ago? Again, one of those projects that sit was in ops comms, ops comms is part of your portfolio. Do you want to give us a bit of an update of where we are with the mobility project? Yeah, thanks, chief. So we have a mobility project which would have been in flight for some time and again led in the ops comms team. So there are a number of products that are out there already in other services around the state, around the nation, I should say. So we've been certainly looking at what is good practice in those mobility solutions. So realistically, what we're talking about here is for everybody is actually having in field data capability. So picture a tablet with a whole range of different functionality and interconnectivity to get live stream data, but also to give information and intelligence back. So it's something we don't have at the moment. But if for those that have been in command roles in particular, think about having either pre-planned information or anything like that available to you. So there is a project. We have had some challenges because one of the things that we need to do is have what we call an integration layer that integrates whatever we have in a mobile data setting into the Esther CAD environment. And so we're working closely with Esther in terms of how we actually do that. Similarly, we're not on our own. FRB, SES have also got similar projects as have Ambulance Victoria and Vicpol. So there's a whole range of mobile data demand coming on naturally enough because the technology's there. Everybody's looking for it. We've got a large project that's in-flight and we'd hope to have something delivered maybe in the near... It's always hard to put a timeline on when we're relying on some other integration elements here, but certainly not too far down the track. Not a problem. So to break it up a little bit, Natalie, and I've got to say to share the love, Roland asks, is there any opportunity for CFA to initiate a Good Ideas Forum where members can propose ideas, concepts that can then be evaluated, tested, developed with a view to widespread adoption across the CFA? What are your thoughts? Yeah, look, I think it is something that we've, you know, sort of been working through and one of the things that I think we all know when we get out and about is that there's a lot... People do have lots of ideas and they spend time thinking about what the solutions might be to the issues we've got. So it's a question of how we make that work for people and whether we look at some online sort of activities and an opportunity for people as soon as they think of it to kind of log it with us and we can then start to sift and sort how those things go. So it's a great suggestion and keen to have a look at it. Awesome. You can't be at Bayswater and not talk about BA, so I've got to say it's somewhat expected, but we do want to get onto FMR at some point. But I've got another question here. What is the process for Brigade to be able to obtain BA? There seems to be no process for making a case, especially when the member's well-being is being affected and the Brigade has funds to purchase. Your thoughts, Gary? Hi, the first step, I guess, would be all of our districts. So all 21 districts have been, in fact, recently through the donations trusts some additional BA allocated, but it was all based on a methodology that was consistently applied around the districts around the whole of the state. So over 230-odd new BA sets delivered in that program, which was fantastic. My advice would be back through the catchment and catchment commander into the district just to actually work out where the Brigade sits in any level of priority based on the risk that sits within the Brigade. So certainly back to the district level initially. Thanks, Gary. And thanks for your question, Rob. So first step, pull a call into the catchment team and take it from there. So, Gary, with that, I think we might move on to something that I know has been quite topical and has been wanting to be discussed. Plenty of questions in here. I know some a lot of interest, both within the media and across our membership. And that's five medical response. What is FMR and what's it all about? Yeah, thanks, Jeff. So I think it was early this month. We were able to go to Ballarat and with our partners at Ambulance Victoria officially launch a new program for CFA, which is called Fire Medical Response. And we'll see that roll out across 50 Fire Brigades in the coming years. I'll say coming years. So it'll probably be early 2023 before we see the first of our FMR Brigades come online. I guess a lot of people go, is it EMR? It is not EMR. But we still have a number of our fire brigades that have been doing the emergency medical response program for a number of years. That remains. So for those brigades, because it's one of the topical questions, will EMR continue? Certainly it does. Fire Medical Response is effectively a program aimed at improving cardiac arrest survival. So for those that understand the chain of survival, so that is witness cardiac arrest, ring triple zero, that'll activate a process, commence CPR, ambulance takes the call and is dispatched. Where we fit in is that in the locations where we'll run Fire Medical Response, we will be co-dispatched. So that when the ambulance, they'll be responsible for the call, we'll be in their lineup. And the brigades that have undertaken the FMR will be corresponded. Realistically, this will be based on the data, the raw data that we've looked at with ambulance. It will potentially get to 800 calls a year across those brigades that'll be included in the program. That's 800 members of our communities that will be given a better chance at survival because we'll actually add to that chain of survival process by commencing CPR or taking over CPR if it's been witnessed, shocking with the DFib and applying oxygen therapy. So until the paramedics arrive, and so if you think about that chain of survival, witnessed cardiac arrest, commence CPR, we get there, an issue of shock, continues CPR, and then an ambulance arrives. So 50 brigades statewide. The program itself, so we'll have an embedded paramedic that'll come and work in our team in CFA, and we'll run actually a program that has both administrative support and paramedic support. We'll go and talk to the individual fire brigades about what the program involves, and it will be up to the brigade to say, yes, we're really keen to be involved, or we don't think this is for us at the moment. Completely optional. Completely optional. We know that we're from the community for the community type model, that's where our people come from and what we do, using Rob's words before. So it's really important, I think that we talk it through with the brigades and they understand completely what's involved. We talked about wellbeing before. Part of our program will have an enhanced wellbeing support put into support our brigades that are involved in this program. So really exciting thing. We're really comfortable hitting the ground and getting some of our brigades involved in this, and as I say, seven to eight hundred calls per year, that's seven or eight hundred Victorians, people from our communities, who we could actually give a better chance at survival than is necessarily there now. Absolutely, so this is a couple of million dollar project that the government has allowed CFA to undertake. Is it 50 brigades? Talk us through how the 50 will be selected. Where do we get to the 50? Yeah, so we've already sat down with Amilis Victoria, as part of the planning and actually worked out, broadly speaking, where the numbers are, they've got about 70, they've got a list and they'll probably go beyond 70 if we ask them to, but data-driven. What we also need to understand is that there are some locations where the data might not necessarily, first and foremost, warrant, so not just data-driven, it might also be an opportunity where there is a community of reasonable size where we think, based on the nearest available amulets to get to that community, that might be an appropriate place as well. So it's not just gonna be purely data-driven, there will be some opportunities for what I call a geographical location to work into the equation as well. So we did have a question that was submitted earlier and that was I think, are we looking to expand beyond the 50 initial and I think you've touched on that but we've now, Josh has asked now, what's the criteria being used to determine which of the brigades will be approached? He's touched on that data, he touched on that distance to ambulance and really been that community need identified by AV Victoria. Yeah, so, and to Josh's question, so the data and location will drive that initially, but then we'll have the discussion with the brigade and we'll bring the local paramedics to that conversation as well so that people are fully informed about, you know, what the FMR program and what arriving at a cardiac arrest will actually involve. So, yeah, I think it's just a really exciting thing and we know that this has been something that in a lot of places, people have been asking for and craving for for some time because they can see the need. So, you know, and probably Chief, just to round it out, we've, you know, as you know, your program where we've actually now got a defibrillator on every one of our operational appliances in the state, that's really targeted at having a defib available to any of our members whilst they're on operational duty or if there happens to be a need out of an operational incident. So it's, the defib program is not FMR either, so it's just, you know, it's these points of distinguishment. This is a very specific program. It'll involve probably about 16 hours of face-to-face training initially to get to the level of accreditation. Ambulance will deliver that whole program and then there'll be annual skills maintenance and a three-year re-accreditation program. Fantastic. A lot of questions about FMR. We'd expect that to be the case. So, while survival rates improve the outcomes for the patient through CPR, the numbers is, there's still, I guess, the survival rates improving, but there is still a good portion of the community that unfortunately do find themselves passed away as a result of those cardiac events. And Don, I guess, points out, and you did touch on it, that the impact on the member, you know, he's going to be fairly significant as well. And you touched on an enhanced member wellbeing program going along with FMR. How do you see that and what's the, why is it so important that we do that for those brigades? Oh, look, I think, you know, attending to somebody that's in a life-threatening situation can be very traumatic. And we, I think, everybody that's been involved in the fire brigade for any length of time has probably already been exposed or potentially exposed to those type of incidents. So, we know that this will add to that potential exposure. That's why it's so important. And it has been the case with the EMR program since its inception as well, is having really strong both hot debriefing opportunities. Certainly, and, you know, my time when I was in ambulance, for those that, as well as I spent some time in ambulance, and, you know, one of the things that was fundamental was that after any particular case like that, that the debriefing was such an important thing initially. And the follow-up, so we'll know where the calls are. We'll know when they've occurred and we'll make sure that that follow-up is part of, you know, effectively an in-built program to provide the support to the members that are responding. Yeah, so, Gary, let me ask an important question on behalf of every volunteer brigade and CFA that does EMR today. Are we going to make them do FMR or can they continue to deliver EMR services? They'll continue to do EMR. There you have it. I know that's been quite a hot topic and conversation that's been had. So, if you are an EMR brigade right now, you will continue to deliver EMR services and FMR is that new program to those 50 brigades that'll be rolling out. Yeah, and I might just add, you know, we've got Mike Wims and Mike's probably online tonight. So, Mike's actually been brought on to provide that dedicated support to our EMR brigades and to give that a bit of a lift because we were clearly, particularly in the skills maintenance and skills acquisition space there had not had a lot of action in the last 12, 18 months. So, we've certainly provided that support back into those brigades. Mason asks, FMR is a fantastic idea for rural brigades. But what about brigades closer to the metro, especially since the metro central areas are experiencing code orange and code red events? Yeah, look, the program will go to, I guess, where we actually, where the needs identified by ambulance. So, we'll work with ambulance to actually identify where the best locations are. And as part of that, we'll also go with ambulances service planning model. So, if they're about to build an ambulance station somewhere or do something as part of their modeling, it's a little point us actually going and putting a service in and then having an ambulance coming over the top. So, we'll make sure that's it. You know, the code orange and code red, which is ambulance escalation, but it's a whole chain of actually clearing ambulances from hospital ramping. So, it's a much more complex thing than just ambulance availability. You know, it's the end-to-end process. So, it's a really good question. But, and look, we've got 50, 50 is our, you know, what we're initially funded to roll out. Who knows where it goes beyond that too? Particularly if it's, I guess, it's successful for our rural communities. Jacob asks a really good question around, yeah, so we're doing FMR, but why didn't we just expand EMR? So, the EMR program, it's a more complex program because it access spinal management treatments and things like that. The conversations wherever the ambulance was to actually develop a program that we thought would actually be fit for some of our, you know, smaller brigades, perhaps less active brigades and in terms of the, you know, the training requirements and in fact, what would make the biggest difference in terms of response in those communities. So, you can sort of have all of those things that we've got with the EMR brigades and their fantastic skills, but based on the advice from Ambulance, and this is a program that they've designed. It's not something that we've designed and gone to them with. It's something that Ambulance came to us with and said, we think this is a model that will make a real and genuine difference across regional and rural Victoria. Awesome. And as it lots and lots of questions and we do have Scott to get to, so hang tight there. Scott, and some really, you know, Rowan talks about, you know, is there a potential for, I think you've touched on it, you know, working with AV in terms of expanding FMR into, you know, peak tourist holiday areas and where we will see fluctuation of population, fluctuation growths, that population risk. So I think it's about 50 now working with AV, get them embedded, get them up and running and then, you know, really sort of evaluate the program and go from there. And I agree with you. I really do think this is going to be quite a successful program. Our members have been asking for it and yeah, we've been getting plenty of representations by particularly our rural brigades that are asking to be able to deliver something like this. So I do probably see an expansion of the program in some way in future years to come, but let's get the 50 up and running first and go from there. Yeah, there's a big piece of work to get the 50 up and running. And we've basically said 25 year, one, 25 year, two, that's our ambition. If we can get ahead of that, we will, but that's certainly our ambition. So realistically, it's two years to get 50 online and we'll already be back into the Rhea Cread, sorry, the skills maintenance and then we'll be looking at Rhea Cread. So, but certainly let's get it on the ground. Let's get it running and then see where it takes us. Awesome. Thanks, Gary, for coming along this evening and talking about FMR. The questions are still rolling in thick and fast, I'm sure. I have, we have Rick Owen in the crowd tonight. He's hiding in the back row, hoping I wouldn't see him. I know he's also keen to answer some questions that have been asked and also I know Rick has been very busy ensuring the defibrillator rollout has been occurring. And I think when Nelly there, aren't we there, Rick? So I've been given the thumbs up, a fantastic work. Congratulations, Rick, to you and your team. It's a fantastic initiative and again, thanks to the CFA Donations Trust and the CFA for making that happen. I do think programs initiatives like that, Natalie, quite frankly, are gonna save our members' lives. Our members' lives, our community members' lives. And I think one of the things we did hear from a number of the rural brigades who sort of lobbied hard for this is that because they are often the only people in town that, you know, that can respond, they are turning up at some of these incidents anyway to their community members. And so if we can, through introducing this, create a greater chance of survival for our community members, then that is a great thing to be doing. Absolutely. Yeah, Chris makes a comment here as FMR came to light, I asked the local AV. The only thing they could say is when we need this in our rural community. So I think it just goes to show the excitement and the need for CFA to look at putting a program like this. But as we said, it is voluntary. No one's gonna be forced into doing this. A lot of consultation. So we are early days in the process. I know you've been speaking initially to the VFBV and the like, but there's a lot more consultation to happen around design of the program, roll out and those brigades, isn't there? Absolutely. And the other bit, we're in lockstep for the ambulance on this, right through the governance and I guess the whole step-by-step process, but it will be, and I saw Mike put something in there before too, so Ambulance Victoria will manage this on their RTO. So it'll be a course that they'll manage. We'll make sure that's linked back to make sure the LMS, so our members can get their appropriate recognition, but it'll be managed by Ambulance Victoria and to end. So that's a great thing as well, because this is a co-responder program. Absolutely. And as I said, all for the community and that's why CFA exists. And yeah, you could be forgiven for CFA, community first always. Scott, welcome to the panel this evening. You were here to talk about quite an important national agenda that the CFA is being part of. In fact, all the fire agencies here in Victoria, and Emergency Management Victoria as well, has been involved in and AFAC around changes to the Australian Fire Danger Rating System. What does it mean and should I be concerned? What does it mean? It means a lot of things. So the Australian Fire Danger Rating System will be a new way of both how fire agencies calculate fire danger and probably most importantly, how we communicate fire danger to the community and to the public. So the genesis of the change of this project, which is a national project and a national project brings its own challenges with their federated models. But the genesis started back as an outcome of the 2009 Royal Commission here in Victoria, where it was recommended some changes to the fire danger rating system that applied at that time. And people will be familiar with Victoria making some adjustments to it. And Victoria was unique with a Code Red declaration type category that was built in a number of years after the Royal Commission handed down its findings. But that started in the research parts of the agencies and with CSIRO and CRC nationally. A lot of research to say, well, can we improve the system holistically? So since 2009, a whole lot of research has been undertaken to understand whether we can improve the way we calculate fire danger and communicate that to the public. And that's culminated with AFDRS. So AFDRS will be a new way of communicating and a new way of calculating right across the country and it will be rolled out universally on the 1st of September this year. So it's a very important change and one in which it's foundational to what we do. So it's pretty important for all Brigades and all members to get across at some point in time. Awesome. So the existing system talks about a fire danger rating, it talks about the danger of the fire. But the fire behavior industry turns it around to looking at how a fire will behave under certain weather conditions or should behave as it goes. So what are some of, I guess, why the change from going from what we traditionally know is that fire danger to now that fire behavior? Yeah, so there's a couple of important things to do and I'll talk about fire behavior index and I'll also talk about what it means for the community. So for the community through social research studies that were undertaken into the old system, whilst the results of those research studies indicated there was a high level of awareness, particularly in Victoria, of the fire danger rating system. So people recognise the signs, they recognise the half watermelon and the colours, et cetera. But what they couldn't do was attribute that rating to the action. So they couldn't connect the colour to what they had to do. So that was the critical outcome from the social research from a public point of view. So the new system, one of the key design elements of that is to simplify it. So it's come back to four ratings as opposed to six. And the key difference with some of those ratings for the community is there is a very clear action statement associated with each level of rating. So for example, on a rating of catastrophic, it is leave bushfire areas now or on the extreme rating, take action now. So there is a clear action statement that the community can understand and associate with that rating. So it is very straightforward in terms of what we expect them to do. In terms of the inward-looking and how the system benefits us as firefighters and fire agencies and other departments and agencies that might be involved in emergency management, the old system was built off the MacArthur model for those that are familiar with the technical specifications but centred on only two fuel types. One was grassland fuels and the other one was forest fuels. That was limiting and it didn't satisfy the needs across the country. So through the research, 22 different fuel types have been identified right across the country. And from those 22 fuel types, they've been categorized and fire spread models have been developed and applied to those 22 fuel types. And there's eight fuel models that come together to make up what is the Australian Fire Danger Rating System. Those eight fuel models then condense and are represented by a fire behavior index. Now, the difference for us as practitioners and responders is it's not a danger index, it's a behavior index. So as you start to understand the system and through the layers, it is how we would expect a fire to develop and behave. So obviously at the lower levels, a fire may well self-extinguish. And at the next level above that, that's probably ideal prescribed burning conditions. And then at the high end, at the catastrophic, we've obviously got crowning fires in tree tops, we've got long distance spotting and those really dynamic fire conditions that we hope we don't see very often. So it relates that index back to what we should expect to see and that fire behavior and that fire intensity. And of course, in responding to that intensity, we can directly connect our strategies and tactics as we respond to some of those levels. So no more code red? No more code red. There is no subjective declaration for a code red. So it no longer occurs. The catastrophic rating will be an automatic rating based on the forecast and the conditions. And is it a like for like? Is it a one for one? So is a 30 in the old FDR equivalent to a 30 in the FBI? The simple answer is no. So it's quite a complex series of steps as we've been through over the last couple of weeks with briefings and really blessed with the capability we have within CNA, particularly the research team who are really leading many aspects of this across the country in understanding and applying the science here. But no, there is not a simple correlation to the old fire danger index of 50 to a fire behavior index of 50. So the simple one for one apples and apples is not the case. And really that's principally because the science behind the two fundamentally different, the fire danger rating principally built on MacArthur and his Jam Tin lids back in the 80s to the FBI, which is informed by Project Vesta and a whole heap of other research projects that go to inform that FBI. Some really good questions here. So, Scott, you're not immune to the question. So, Sean asks, currently members are able to calculate fire danger into seeing a rate of spread. Will we have access to these same tools under the new model? The tools that you currently have in terms of the old wheels and the manual meters, you won't be able to apply those. That's not to say the MacArthur models don't still provide some informative basis to model fire spread from. So it's not like the science is no longer applicable. It is a new system that can be applied, like I said, across a greater range of fuel types. So to support the application, you will see the Bureau of Meteorology have a key role in this space in they will be publishing a whole new suite of pracks and information that agencies and the public can get their hands on and see and interpret the fire danger and understand what the fire behaviour index is and the likely fire conditions that go from that. The other element is, I'd encourage you, and we'll probably get to the training part at some point, but there is an introductory training course available through CFA's learning management system, and I would really encourage all CFA members to take the time to do that, probably 20 minutes to 30 minutes of your time to walk through that training course, but in that you'll start to see the eight different fire models that are there where you can get further information and if you're really that way inclined to actually understand those models and the calculations that sit behind each of those that are applicable to the fuel types. Absolutely, and because I like getting out and about and playing with, I shouldn't say playing with fire, because that's not what we do here at the CFA, but the operations officer and the firefighter in me is very interesting, I guess, in the practical application of this, and you spoke about, I can still use my car for a metre of thing, and it gives me the FDI, it used to give me the radar spread, anticipated and that sort of stuff. So that science, I guess, is off to the side at the moment, but if I was a strike team leader in the field and I get a weather briefing or an international action plan from the IMT and it tells me that there's an FBI of 50 today, this whole thing's really designed to tell me about what type of fire behaviour or, I mean, likely to experience that day, isn't it? Correct, so in the fuel type, it's applicable. So the numbers will mean different things to the fuel type that may be involved in the fire. So grassland 50 will mean different things to a 50-year-in-a-pine plantation, for example, but that's why we embed people like fire behaviour analysis in incident management teams that can provide that application and the detail within the briefings. But yes, the training, once you step through the training, will give you general guidance about the range of FDI numbers within a fuel type and the types of fire behaviour applicable and should give you general rule of thumbs in terms of the types of strategies that you should be considering to that type of fire behaviour. Yeah, so Sam asked, you know, this is obviously public-facing, obviously with the watermelon signs and the like. Talk about how, I guess, we'll then be implementing that into our internal systems and, of course, we're doing a bit of a transition for this fire season. Talk us through, I guess, some of the work that's been done behind the scenes in CFA to get ready for this. Yeah, okay, so there's a lot going on to get ready in terms of changing systems, reviewing doctrine processes, readiness matrix, but the list goes on, not to mention the roadside signs themselves. So whilst we've got 50-plus years of experience in using the MacArthur model and understanding what fire and Victoria looks like using that system, we've got essentially zero experience using these new models. So as I said, there's eight fire models that come together to build this system. Seven of those fuel types are applicable in Victoria. So only one doesn't apply. And of those seven models, we've only got practical experience in using one of those, and that's the Grassley model. The other six have never been evaluated by fire agencies in the response context in Victoria. So there is some uncertainty about what we should expect to be realised through the use of these tools. When the research team have compared the new model and run previous years with the data and fire danger to do a comparison, there is some discrepancy in that, and the team are trying nationally to understand what's driving that discrepancy. So this year is part of that step change process and to give assurance and confidence to us that we understand the application in the Victorian context. Both systems will be run side by side to help us make those critical operational decisions about activating aircraft or when to declare a total fire ban or when to stand up some of these extra capabilities that we've got because we know what the old system tells us and we know what to expect from the old system and we need to run both side by side so we can evaluate the effectiveness and understand the application in the context. And I guess let's not underestimate or underplay the significance of this project because, you know, some would argue it's probably been the biggest nationally-agreed project since Federation. Why is that so important that each of the states and territories are playing to the same songbook? Yeah, okay. So for the first time ever, all states and territories will communicate fire danger in the same way. So currently we do it differently. It was only before last season we still communicated our emergency warnings differently in terms of watch and acts and other things. So that's been another little improvement that's similar. So the harmonisation, the experiences that really came from the 2019-2025 is right across the East Coast in particular. It also allows those national agencies that we have a high dependency on people like the Bureau of Meteorology, people like CRC and CSIRO to really focus and deliver outcomes that suit all of our needs to benefit the sector holistically. The new system has been built in a modular way. So as further research and products come available, it can be built in into the system to improve it. And a good example is CFA is actually working with CSIRO to develop a new fire model for harvests and crops, as opposed to using a grassland model for fire behaviour and crop lands. So once that's finalised and tested and some confidence in that model, for example, that could be picked up and brought into the new AFDRS system. So for those that are out there that are used to seeing the Harvest Safety Guides and the Harvest, so the team's working on converting that and building a new tool for our rural communities, that's fantastic. So Meg gives you a bit of a shout out. She's our long-time listener, first-time caller and says, who can they reach out to for more specifics and a bit of a session if need be? Noting the LMSC learning module, which you'll dutifully sign up and undertake, but what if people have more questions? Yeah, good question. So members online should have an AFDRS landing page that everyone should be able to find. In there will be a whole heap of FAQs to be able to look through. There'll be a link to the training. There is also a link, really importantly, to AFAC's AFDRS page. Now, if you go to the AFAC page through those links, you will find a whole lot of technical fact sheets both about the fire models, but also about the products the Bureau of Meteorology will produce. So you'll get the real science stuff, if you want to read through the formulas, and you'll also get some high-level overviews in terms of what this means from both the community point of view and the messaging associated with that, but also what does it mean for fire responders, fire decision-makers and fire managers. Awesome. We have Todd at the microphone, ready to ask Scott, I hope, a difficult question. Sorry, Trini. Incoming. It's all yours. We've got a couple of questions about structural helmets. When we transitioned from the Pacific F3 to the Euro-style F15, one of the benefits that it... Yeah, one of the benefits that it gave us, I'll leave it at that, was that we're able to identify a difference on the fire ground for people who were internally structurally qualified and people who were only... who had BA external qualification. When the decision was made to do away with the F3, we lost that ability on the fire ground to be able to discern between people who were internally and who weren't. Now, I can see that, you know, small communities where brigades work with each other all the time, probably not such of an issue, but for us here in the Burbs, where we work with our sister agency all the time, it is a significant issue. The first question I have for you is, is there any opportunity for us to return to a position where we have people who are externally qualified, I'll say, to be supplied with an F3 helmet and for people... And if they're at some point in time, if they choose to do their structure course and become internally qualified, they can then be issued with an F15 or whatever the current helmet happens to be at the time. Fantastic question. The answer is no, because we made the decision based on economics and getting value out of our procurement arrangements, rather than having two styles of helmets and procuring two lots of helmets across the organisation. What I have done is I've asked Brett Boatman, who works with Gary as part of his structural planning aspect, is to look at helmet markings, appropriate helmet markings to identify those that are BA internal and BA external qualified. I don't know whether you've got any more to add to that, Gary, because it has been raised and we do recognise the need to easily be able to distinguish those that have the distinct qualifications. Do you want to add something? Yeah, so thanks, Todd. A good question, too, that the... So, in fact, there's a trial happening right now in District 15 that was being put up through the District 15 DPC to look at having an appropriate helmet identifier. So, and it might be BA capital E and BA capital I, or different colours or anything like that, but effectively back to the helmet marking for the identification of. So that's a trial that we haven't actually yet accepted and, in fact, it probably commenced, I've got to say, two months ago in District 15, but clearly recognised that is an issue. And it's been raised at a number of different locations for that reason. Oh, yeah, well, stickers didn't work for us before. Don't think they'll work for us now, but knock yourself out with your trial and I'll find out who's running in District 15 will give them a ring. Part two, the mystical S-15 helmets. We've...well, certainly with Infantry Alley, we've had a number of CFA safes going on about the fact that they're heavy, they're unbalanced, the torch is never there when you want it to be. Of recent times, we've had a couple for people who have spent a fair bit of time instructivising, bit of training at VemTech. They get to the point where the helmet is unwearable due to the odor that comes from it, and that's both on the helmet lining, so the external of the helmet and the liner itself. The best answer we get is send it away for advanced cloning, except nobody knows what advanced cloning is. So when you send it to the district, it comes back with a box full of parts and they pull the lining out and replace it. That's not a suitable response. And then there's the fact that with very, very little work, they chip and mark, and I know you have a black helmet, and you might as well have given everyone a black helmet, because that's what colour they're going to end up. They send us a little tinny yellow paint, and so you touch it up. It's not acceptable. It's like the hose, it's just... I am aware of the chipping issue, and I know I've been speaking to the PA department around that, and I know they've been talking to the manufacturer around that issue and seeking to resolve that, and I understand it is a manufacturing issue, so hopefully we can provide some more information and update on that issue. My first comment would be, please, whether it be the F-15 helmet, whether it be any piece of protective equipment or like, if you are experiencing those issues, and on this occasion I'm sure you have, but we need those CFA safes. We need those reports. This has a report so that we are able to keep track of them, because I guess, other than the paint chip issue, I've got to say I'm unaware of those issues, those other issues that have been raised. Thank you so much, tomorrow. Excellent. And as far as the CFA safes go, it would be nice to get a response. OK, excellent. I know our group general manager for support services is online, Kylie Bates, and I know she's actually also commented on a similar question that was asked in the chat this evening around CFA safes. So, she's given her commitment to have a look at that and report back. I'll weave it at that, or I could be here all night. Thanks, Toddie. Just on the CFA safe, I mean, it is important that our line management and our command and control take responsibility for those CFA safes. And I think if we're seeing where that isn't happening, we need to know about it. The best you get is just a reply to say that it's been registered online, it's been dealt with. And then if you go back into your CFA safe to see what's happening with it, it's closed. Yeah. Well, we'll take that on and we'll have a bit of a chat, but certainly, I think, Natalie, your point is if you're not happy, please raise it with your catchment team and raise it with your ACFA. Is it here and from us? Yeah, if you're not happy, you're there. I'm sure Ross Sullivan would love to hear from you as well. So, please, and ultimately, if that all fails, yeah, you've got my number. So, thanks for the question, Todd. Scott, we had a bit of a chat about the ADFRS and there's a lot of information still to come out. There is that training session on learning management system that people can go to. There's that landing page, some more AFAC information as well. But that's not all that you're doing for me at the moment. And I know we'll probably talk about this more specifically in detail in future volunteer forums, but you're actually part of the project lead for our operating model review. And I guess it's appropriate that I now sort of ask the question that has been sent through here about the role of the group. And I know that's something that you and I have spoken about and I've given you my writing instructions on that one. Do you want to touch on how the operating model review will actually bring the answer of the role of the group to conclusion? Well, we hope. Thank you, Chief. So, CFA's operating model review, first phase, so it sets some expectations, is an exercise to get across the organisation at all levels from the executive fright down to our brigades about how CFA does its work. So it's not about what CFA does, it is just focusing on answering the question about how CFA operates and delivers its services. So we are a fire service, we're a service livery organisation, so we're really understanding from the various perspectives about how we do that and ensuring a future CFA operating model is fit for purpose that will deliver success for the future challenges that CFA has and the environment in which we operate in. So considering things like climate change and population growth and other machinations with government challenges we have with volunteerism and those external drivers, what changes and adjustments to CFA need to make over the journey to be successfully set up post reform and post some of these other changes in years ahead. So the how is the question we're seeking to answer. We're currently through a wide range of engagement across the organisation. Over the next three weeks we're out on the road again engaging in the number of districts, brigade and group representatives to seek to answer some of these questions about what changes do we need to make, what's working well, what's not working well, how do we address some of these future challenges from the different perspectives. So certainly we will have insights from group representatives over the next three weeks in terms of the role of the group and maybe some clarity that might be required to redefine or repurpose the function of the group. Maybe I don't want to forecast what it would look like but we'll certainly be taking feedback and engagement from those people. So right across the state from way out west into some of the other metro districts as well, so various perspectives obviously because CFA is unique, large, complex and different communities have different needs of the organisation. So yeah, it's a big piece of work to sift and sort through all of this but hopefully we'll be in a position in a few months time to deliver a bit of a roadmap of the activities that CFA needs to undertake more holistically probably over the next two years to realise a future state operating model that will be successful for us. Excellent, awesome, thanks. Thanks, Gordon. As I said, there's a lot of consultations taking place. Absolutely encourage if you do get a chance to contribute and once we do land on a framework, a product, a roadmap, again, that'll be out with the VFBV, we'll be out with our membership to understand and discuss those issues. So lots and lots of questions. Thanks, Todd. Lots and lots of questions about the helmets and Kylie Bates has also indicated she's onto it and some of those issues that you raised. Well, ladies and gentlemen, it is time has come and as always, I've sort of somewhat run over time but before I finish tonight, we actually have another special person with us here this evening and amongst us and that's Raymond Rolth who was the 2022 Inclusion and in fairness winner as part of the CFA, a Spirit of CFA awards. So congratulations, well done. Yes, class. Yeah, fantastic to have some fantastic members amongst us and whilst we celebrated a number of members here this evening and you snuck in and hit into the corner there, we really do take our hat off to you as a winner and thank you very much for your contribution and efforts and recognition for your work in inclusion and diversity and fairness, so congratulations. Been a bit of a jam-packed agenda here this evening. We've talked about a lot of things, Natalie. CFA, a Spirit of CFA, FMR, the good old trusty BA got to run again. Jamie, once again, thank you very much for the Bayes Water Brigade for letting us come here this evening and thanks to all the members here with us this evening. Peter, thanks for representing the Knox Group. Again, didn't disappoint with the hard questions as I know you wouldn't. We're at the end now, Peter, you've missed your opportunity. So thank you very much everyone for coming along this evening. It's always great when we're able to have these forums with our members and allowing our members to ask whatever questions they like. There are lots of questions in the chat this evening, some fantastic questions. I know many of the senior leaders in CFA were able to answer quite a lot of those questions. So I know a lot of them like to hang around a little bit after the forum. We'll continue to answer some of those questions that they may have missed. So thank you very much to all the senior CFA people for also being with us this evening. Wherever you may be, one in particular I know is very much north of the Murray River. Yeah, probably very much north of a lot of things. So thank you very much for coming this evening. As always, the sessions are recorded. They are available through our YouTube channel. So do encourage anyone to come back, listen and watch, particularly if you missed anything this evening. And it's great to have you with us. As always, love to get your feedback. These forums are for our members. I wanna make sure, we all wanna make sure that we're giving the information that you need in a way that's important to you and touching on those big issues and those topics that are affecting our brigades today, tomorrow and into the future. So internalcoms at cfa.vic.gov.au is exactly what you need to do if you wanna send an email to the team. Also, as always, I would like to thank those behind the desk that do a fantastic job yet again and every volunteer forum to make it look professional, as it absolutely is. They make us look good. It's the magic of television, as I say, but that doesn't happen without the team behind the camera. Keith Pakenham, Martin Anderson and Brad Thomas. Thank you very much for your efforts this evening. Fantastic job, well done. Well, thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen, and have a good evening.