 We can win this war. We can win this war? OK, well joining us from Orlando, Florida is the man in that clip, Anthony Dream Johnson, who says he wants to abolish feminism and make women great again. No, but it also says, with a trademark, make women great again, always great. Make women great again. They're going to do a three-day seminar for women led by all men. In mansplaining news, a three-day conference for women led by men hopes to make women great again. How the 22 convention will make you the greatest you ever. Raise your femininity by 500%. First of all, how is a man supposed to tell a woman how to be the ultimate woman? A woman needs to be taught how to be great again. Oh, yes, we do. How to land a husband. How to lose weight. How to pump out a bunch of kids. Why do men think they need to fix the problems of women? Well, it says the world's ultimate event for women. Yeah, Orlando, Florida, that's going to be the scene of the crime. It's mansplaining platoosa. And say no to the toxic bullying feminist dogma. Taught by men to make women great again. Taking the stage now is the founder of the 22 convention. You're in for a treat, Mr. Anthony Dream Johnson. Anthony Dream Johnson. The first president of the Manosphere. It's run by all men, which promises to, quote, make women great again. This course is guaranteed to raise your femininity by 500%. Together, we will make women great again. Excuse me, I'm mansplaining here. She said there's nothing wrong. Welcome back to the 22 convention of 2021 in Orlando, Florida. It brings me an incredible honor, both professionally and personally, to introduce our next speaker. His name is Ken Curry. I consider him not only a friend and compatriot on this stage, but a mentor in many ways that I've learned a tremendous amount of personal identity, things that have improved my life, have personally improved my relationship as a father and also clearly as a partner. He is a licensed marriage and family therapist. He is an outstanding individual. And one of the things that he taught me, I think it's important to note that I wish young women would hear, is that confidence comes from a combination of two traits, a very, very strong personal identity coupled with the ability and to have skills confidently. We have those two together. You have a very confident individual. And I look to that model when I'm raising my daughter because of the following men. May I introduce an outstanding exemplar of our masculinity, Ken Curry. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. Yeah, that's quite an intro. Thank you very much. Like he said, I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist. I've been doing family and marriage therapy for about 15 years. Let's see a couple of the things about me. I've been married 37 years to the same woman. I've got three children, they're adults now, and I have one grandson. And yesterday was his first birthday. So that was a big celebration that I missed for being here. But it's a really cool being here with you guys today. One of the things that I do, I work about three quarters of my practice, this is working directly with men. And about a quarter of what I do is working with couples and working with marriages, trying to help restore the marriage. And this is something my wife, she always tells me, I can't stop doing that. I have to do that to a degree. She always says, you have to stay in touch with what's going on with the women. And so because I do a lot of work with men and I'm very passionate about some of the things that my intro said that I work a lot with men. And that's a very significant passionate part of what I do. So definitely really enjoy marriage counseling. And I do that because I am also passionate about marriage. And I think that family and marriage is a major cornerstone for society. It is a major stabilizing form order that we have. And marriage has really taken a pretty big hit. Especially in the world of the manosphere and the men's conversation. There's a lot of men who just say, I don't want anything to do with marriage anymore. And there's a number of reasons why that is. But the first thing I just want to say is there is nothing wrong with marriage. Marriage is amazing. It's, like I said, an important part of our society. It's a very important part of each individual who are part of that. It's a very important part of raising children really well. And I'll get into more of that. Where the problem comes is divorce sucks. And what has happened with divorce in our society, with the courts and the different things, divorce really destroys a lot of things. And so my intent today with this talk is if in any little tiny shape or form I'm able to have somebody rethink whether they're going to get a divorce or not, then this will have been a successful conversation. And so that's all I want to do is make somebody think that let's not do this, or let's rethink this, or let's take some time before we move into this. So first, I'm going to just start off on one of my pet peeves. So as I've gotten older, I just turned 60 this year, and as I've gotten older, I've had to rely on these guys, my readers. And so one of the things that, and gosh, my eyes have been really good my whole life, really good. And so for people that have had eye problems and need to wear glasses, man, I give you kudos because it has created some really frustrating things for me. And so one of the things is how things are marketed. And we're going to talk a little bit about marketing today, but my pet peeve comes out with the whole idea of probably when I first noticed it, is when I would go to take a shower, usually at a hotel and where they have the three different things, they would have a body wash, conditioner, and shampoo. But they always, the way things are marketed, the name of the product, of what the product, the brand of the product is really big, like Aussie, or Echo This, or whatever. It's kind of the big, and you don't know what it is because is this the body wash or the conditioner or the shampoo? And so it's like, I try my best to figure out which is which, and try not to wash my whole body with conditioner. The worst one is when I brush my teeth with desitin. But I'm just kidding, didn't do that. I know what desitin is, but the thing is where this came up again, and you guys might laugh at me and this might be kind of something that's funny, but my wife and I have a really good division of labor in our home. I do a lot of the stuff that I do. She does a lot of stuff that she does. Well, one time I caught myself, I had to do my laundry. She usually normally does it. She loves doing the laundry. So I was caught with this. I didn't have my glasses. So I'm going, which is which? Which one is the detergent? Which one is fabric softener? I couldn't tell because look at this thing. All shiny and says gain. And everybody knows what gain is, right? No, guys don't know what it is. I don't watch TV. I don't hardly ever watch commercials. Snuggle, what the heck is snuggle? Got a little bear on there. Literally, can you guys see what the product is? There is no, there isn't. I'll show you. It's hidden. You don't, I don't know whether this is detergent or that's detergent. I don't know because I'm a guy and I don't usually do the laundry. Now check this out. Way down at the bottom. I mean, look, you could even see the says detergent and then detergent right in French and then down here fabric conditioner, right? But see how small it is. Look at this. It's here. It's like as small as possible. It's crazy, isn't it? So this is one of my pet peeve because I can't read what it is just like in the shower if I don't have my readers on. Now, here's the big question is why, why do they do this with marketing? What is this? Why don't they tell you what the product is? It's because they have a plan. Here's the thing. Detergent, soap. It's not very sexy. It's not a sexy idea. But with detergent, if you look how green it is and sparkly it is and the butterflies and flowers and stars and all this stuff and that's what it looks like and it's a big shiny product but when it comes down to it if you've ever seen a commercial it's all about happy children. Well-behaved children sparkling clean white t-shirts it's about snugly the bear feel how soft that is, right? That's what it's all about and so the thing is is that what they market is the experience of what you're going to achieve or what you're going to experience when you buy this product. It's not what you need it's what you want. I need detergent but detergent, like I said isn't very sexy and so they hide the thing down at the very bottom and they don't you don't even know what it is but you know what it is because they've marketed with commercials you've all seen the commercials smiling kids and you know you take your kids to the bus stop and all the other mothers or somebody sees you with all these kids they're in the best clean clothes and it's like you get all this validation from that and probably the most important part of it is if I use this product I'll keep my mother in law off my back that's probably the most important part of this that's the best part of the experience so I want to jump to this one as well you guys will like this remember Tide Pods people were eating this thinking it was candy what? oh yeah this was a year ago or whatever do you guys remember any of that where people were eating Tide Pods? but here's the reason what is it? it tells you way down here they don't even tell you that it's not candy it's like it was a really weird thing anyway moving forward so here's what marketing does marketing tells you what you want and then sells you this shiny object and we're going to get into this a little more and they don't even tell you what the thing is they're selling you the expectations the hopes dreams but it's really all about expectations if I buy this product I will achieve or I will experience this certain thing so today we're going to talk about marketing I just talked about marketing how we do that Twitter patient you guys may or may not know what Twitter patient is comes from a Disney movie called Bambi and if you remember in Bambi starts off the first part of the movie is the story has all the little animals you have Thumper the rabbit and Flower the skunk and Bambi the deer and their little kids and then all of a sudden they start growing up and Twitter patient happens and the animals start to get horny and they start to Thumper starts thumping Flower starts doing his thing with all the other skunk girls and then Bambi and Phelene they get together because of Twitter patient Twitter patient is that feeling of butterflies the infatuation some people call it limerence that would be the scientific word for infatuation so that's what we're going to talk about probably the most important marketing this is the number one marketing campaign of the last century I think it's probably the most brilliant marketing campaign in history and I don't know if anybody would ever do something better than this campaign it's DeBeers Diamond is forever so the whole thing of what they've done you imagine that a couple of guys in the marketing you know Mad Men Office or whatever and they're all sitting there talking and they're going okay our goal is we want to move we have millions of dollars worth of diamonds over here and nobody's buying them how do we make it to where people buy diamonds and here's the thing they actually created out of nothing they created a tradition the tradition of the engagement ring and it's brilliant they created it so before the last century before this marketing campaign engagement rings weren't really a thing a few people did it here and there and so the whole thing is they created a marketing tool to move their diamonds brilliant freaking brilliant because these guys now you think about how much billions and billions and billions of dollars and now 100 years later it's a tradition nobody even thinks about it it's just what we do when you get married or when you get engaged the guy buys the diamond ring and the woman experiences you know you know how, gosh I probably can't do it you know the right this is, you see this it's like I'm excited I've been chosen I'm wanted look at this is going to happen to me this great thing but what they're marketing is the experience of being chosen of being wanted and so it's attached so the diamond is a symbol of this excitement of the Twitter patient of the infatuation of the chemistry that's going on and now I'm experiencing it and so here's another one oops wow oops how far do we need to go here there we are so you wonder where this came from the whole idea it says up here two months salary showed the future will be like who came up with the idea that you would need to buy an engagement ring for two months salary are buddies from the beers right I know it's brilliant freaking brilliant and nobody thinks twice about where this came from and how we as consumers and we are Americans are consumers if you want more information about this there's a really good documentary called the century of the self it's a four part documentary you can find it on YouTube it's all about the marketing it's all about how we became a nation of consumers and what I'm talking about is how did we become consumers of Twitter patient so think about all the different categories where we're taught we're told here's what relationship is you know the weddings incorporated that includes the venues and cakes and all the tuxes and all the stuff that you get with the whole wedding process you know I'm from Colorado and whenever we go anywhere in the summertime it's like every flat spot there's a wedding going on there I mean it's like the venue what do you call that the service or the product or whatever everybody wants to have a venue because you make a lot of money and bring in people in so farms and ranches and ski resorts and anybody that has something that has a beautiful backdrop with the mountains and a flat spot all you need is a flat concrete spot where people stand with the backdrop and they sell the experience and so there's a ton going on with the weddings incorporated you know about hallmark cards and valentine cards and how all this is just the romance and everything Disney, I already talked about Bambi but think about Prince Charming Prince Charming Cinderella Snow White Sleeping Beauty that guy got around he's all over the place same guy he's the original pickup artist but the whole thing of all the different things of can you feel the love tonight everything about it and if you remember it always ends with they lived happily ever after so Disney any other kind of fairy tale that's where it ends they lived happily ever after so you get this first part and there's a line and they just assume here we go and that's what we're going to talk about because they sell what's on the front end the rom-coms, romantic comedies you had me at hello or what's the breath one where life is not about how many breaths you take but how many how your breath is taken away and it's like there's so many different categories of romantic comedies that are just about is the guy going to meet the girl and they're passing by in the night and she's on the train and why didn't he get on the train and stop the train and all this stuff and there's all this romance and all this stuff going on but is that real and always there's all this tension during the movie and always they hook up at the end maybe it's not a hook up but they get married or whatever at the end and everything that's the line and you assume happily ever after there's pretty crazy ones in there as well where you go they're not going to live happily I think the silver linings playbook is probably the worst one where two people with serious mental illness finally get together they both have bipolar disorder and you go any marriage is really difficult if one person has that disorder and both of them have it and they end the movie like hey everything's cool and I'm like nah this is a disaster ready to happen but they don't tell you that romance novels I don't even want to talk about that disgusting concept horrible you guys know what I'm talking about the whole mommy porn thing and all that just it's about cultural expectations about what we get when we're going to get engaged so let's look at this marketing twitter patient this is the big all the stuff we've been sold it's what you've been told it's what you've been sold it's a big shiny object all the stars all the happiness I feel good about me when I'm with you the expectations the diamonds the rings the experience the ceremony the venues the gifts the honeymoon romance passion sex all this stuff your hopes and dreams come alive your princess for a day and queen for a lifetime I'm cherished I'm chosen you complete me my internal conflicts are resolved everything's good it's the big dopamine hits of twitter patient and the butterflies and infatuation and it's happily ever after right that's what it's all about this is marriage right no because they don't tell you what's really down there in this little fine print right what is that there's something down there what is this really it's like it's like what is this really this is what we assume it all is but it's not it but we gotta go down what's the fine print find out what is marriage all about what's what is it really what's really gonna happen here so down the bottom procreation I talked a little bit about this before about having kids it's about being together to raise really good people really good people to be in the world and you have to have a good family you have to have a husband or wife and everything to really create really good family and being together to really create that the second one is well-being and well-being is about safety and security and companionship and it used to be 100 years ago or so or more that if you weren't married you might have a really hard time surviving you needed the teamwork you needed to be together to do that now we live in such abundant times that the well-being thing or at least the safety and security part of it isn't as necessary as an issue with that so but it's still a really big part of this I have somebody with me I feel loved I feel cherished I feel belonging belongings a really significant part of the human experience and so I have that and it's a really big part of being married the next one and this is the one that nobody talks about and this is the one I'm going to focus on tonight today it's a whole idea of personal growth personal growth is something that most of us we pull back on I don't want to grow I don't want to be responsible I don't want to have to go through the process of growing because personal growth usually is quite difficult it's not an easy thing to grow and I'll talk more about how that happens so one of the quotes that I want to see this is Dr. David Schnarsh this is from the book passionate marriage really good book on marriage marriage is a people growing machine so what he's talking about is it is going to grow you up it's it this is what it's designed to do you start with marriage and when you move through marriage you're going to be a stronger more healthy individual if you allow marriage to do the thing it's supposed to do to grow you up most men are weak and beta how do you get past this how do you be a real man how do you be a husband and a father that has been where we drop the ball as men is because we're too accepting we're too tolerant I'm calling for intolerance for evil we need to be able to properly identify with the definition what is masculinity we need men to stand up and do heroic things building a tribe of people who are of like mind who you can depend on and hold you accountable who will call you on your BS I call the official tagline for now with 21 convention is America's last stand for masculinity I think it is the event and it's as a reflection of the man's sphere really you come out and you consciously attend and start talking with these people because people who are coming here are coming here to discuss big ideas important ideas talking about being masculine okay you've done all the self development what are you going to do with it so let's talk about change and growth so this is going to kind of guide us through the whole process of how this actually works and so change and growth I like the whole concept of this comes from Richard Rohr and his book is the wisdom pattern and it's about order disorder reorder and this is how change and growth happens probably in every category when you have any kind of change and growth happening so the order is the expectations of the way that you heard it should be or the way that it is it's just the order of how it is so before change happens it's kind of the idea of this is just the order of how it is so it's probably a little bit unhealthy it might be codependent it might be something that needs to change the second category is disorder so this is where everything falls apart the shit hits the fan and the old order now is disrupted and it creates a ton of uncertainty and so the way that growth happens is you sit in the uncertainty and you sit in this disrupted time and you go what am I going to do where am I going with this it's really really difficult and it's very uncertain and so then you're left with two options, we'll talk more about the options but if you're going to go ahead and move forward into growth you have to think about the reorder reordering it into more of a healthy stance where we're not as codependent but now we're more interdependent or I grow something inside of me where I feel stronger and maybe I'm using my voice in a stronger fashion it's transformation something is changing and transforming and how I move and who I am and how I believe and the stories that I believe and finding what the truth is and it's growth toward maturity and so that's the reorder now if you think about it even this last year or so we've actually done this as a whole country you know if you had a certain order COVID came in totally disrupted everything and the new reorder you know how people use the category of the new normal it's like that's our new normal this is our reorder of how we do things now and it's just weird because you know a couple years ago you would think it would be the most extremely odd thing to see somebody in a mask now it's like that's normal you know and it's that's the new order that's the reorder where we are so you see how change happened with a massive disorder okay so let's start with the order part of the Twitter patient stuff so this is based on the expectations of how you heard it should be this is how it was sold to me by De Beers and by whoever else was telling me this is how relationships should be and so it really starts off on it starts on the first date the first date if you didn't feel good about you when you were with the other person and they feel good about them when they were with you you wouldn't have a second date it's all about chemistry it's all about feeling good about myself you make me feel good about me and with you you complete me you make me feel good and it's about chemistry and the feel good hormones oxytocin and dopamine those are the two big hormones that go through your body when you feel good oxytocin is called the bonding hormone dopamine is more of a pleasure hormone it's more of a excitement hormone and we feel these things but it's totally based on chemistry so you're responsible for my happiness but you're also responsible for my unhappiness and we'll get to that in a little bit as well it's very codependent you guys know that word and it's based on a reflected sense of self and external validation that I'm getting validation from something outside of me telling me that I'm somebody or telling me that I'm good enough so it's resolving my inner conflicts through this person liking me and wanting to be with me and so you go to the first first date keep going time passes finally you get engaged time passes you get married and you enter into the honeymoon phase and we know what the honeymoon feels like and this is what I want to say on the bottom it feels great and to be enjoyed I would say this phase enjoy it it's not bad it's a beautiful wonderful experience feel it to the depth of feeling it but it's a very incomplete view and the problem is that most people think this is the norm this is the way marriage is supposed to be from beginning to end and it's not I want you to experience it as much as you can but it's not the substance of a marriage it's a very incomplete view of the fullness of what marriage is all about then we go into the disorder this is a second part so the chemistry we've got the chemistry side where all the different things in the honeymoon phase and then we move into chaos and so the shit hits fan all your expectations fall apart this is where remember they live happily ever after that's where that's a lie we didn't live we're not going to live happily ever after guess what the honeymoon phase is going to end guaranteed it's going to end at some point in time so usually it happens when the first baby's born first baby's born and all of a sudden nobody gets sleep all of a sudden things change totally for me when my daughter was born that was the first child we had we were two weeks in my daughter was two weeks old and I was pissed at a two week old baby look here I am a man and I'm angry at a little girl a baby and I'm going what is going on with me what is happening what is this I had to really do a gut check it was a massive come to Jesus moment for me and what it was I know now was two weeks before I had 100% of my wife's attention two weeks later I got about 5% of my wife's attention it was it was gone and I had to struggle with it because guess what our changing things totally were changing and so when you have a baby things change a ton or I have on here you have no baby it's a lot of couples miscarriages they have to do IVF that is equally as difficult as having a baby but it's still it hits the fan it's a tough season it could be a health problem could be a job loss could be somebody dies number of different things but guaranteed it's going to hit the fan you're going to go into disorder in your relationship this is the place where I got some acronyms here the first one is the whole thing of how does it go you never close your eyes anymore when I kiss your lips right it's the whole thing of you lost that love and feeling oh that love and feeling right that's the whole thing you've lost the love and feeling there's a song about it and actually there's more than one song there's that song you guys all know that you probably don't know Pink Floyd the wall okay their marriage hit the wall and so it goes like this day after day love turns gray like the skin of a dying man night after night we pretend it's alright but I have grown older you have grown colder cold as a razor blade tight as a tourniquet dry as a funeral drum didn't that kill you that's that's the season and this is where you begin to think are we incompatible what's wrong with us something's wrong because nobody's ever told us that this is how relationships go nobody's told us so we question it and so this acronym here that's I love you but I'm not in love with you we've heard that one before talking about the chemicals or the hormones you can say it this way I oxytocin you I'm bonded to you but I don't dopamine you anymore I don't have that excitement I have the connection and bonding but I don't have the excitement the chemistry is not there anymore and so when somebody says that they're assuming that this is the category of which a relationship is based on which it's not like I said and so you'll get like the whole idea of living in a deficit both of you everybody is living in a deficit we're not getting the sleep we need we're not getting what we got before we're not having the same connections we're probably not having the same affection amount of affection or conversation we're both too busy there's too much poop there's too much pee there's laundry to be done you're trying to resolve all the crap with grandparents wanting to be in your house there's all this so much stuff is going on and you're not at our happiness level or a sense of well-being it's way down here we're both living in a deficit so if your idea is that I have to be living with a really profoundly what would you call it or my happiness is way up here and I feel all the chemistry and all this if that's the expectation oh my gosh that's going to be a really tough thing to navigate for sure and so this also comes to the place where it's an adversarial relationship where that person begins to be my enemy because you are responsible for my happiness you are not doing your job you are not doing what I expect right because of what I've been told what I've been marketed right and so that other person I have the acronyms there the CB you are a crazy bitch or he is an uncaring asshole so the narrative that you have of the other person they become your enemy that's the words that you begin to use that's the language you begin to use about that other person and that other person for me two weeks ago was like the most amazing person on the planet I had chosen them I had wanted them to be my partner forever and now I question that and I'm calling them names like this this is how rough this is because this happens trust me I see this all the time where I have to navigate how can we shift the narrative or the story that you're telling yourself about the other person and begin to create different names he's not an uncaring asshole he's just living in a deficit and not getting the sleep that he needs and he's trying to navigate this she's not a crazy bitch she's just living in a deficit as well trying to figure this out trying to make things work for herself trying to find out how to actually get through this totally unexpected because guess what nobody tells you this stuff that's what I'm hoping to do with this conversation is being able to say this is how relationships actually work remember there are people growing machine and this is how it works so this is disorder so this is not the time to give up your marriage is doing exactly what it's supposed to do you're right where you need to be it's difficult as a matter of fact when you have little babies easily the most difficult season of a marriage across the board when kids are little it is really really tough but it's doing exactly what it's supposed to be remember I was telling you the whole thing about how it's designed for personal growth it's going to grow you up but we have three choices our choices lawyer up suck it up or grow up so lawyer up I'm going to choose a divorce and this is the thing that really saddens me not only do people choose divorce man sometimes they will choose to just do the scorched earth because they're so angry at their partner that they want to destroy their partner so they will destroy the finances they will destroy whatever is in their way to get back at that person it's really really tough to see and what it is is if you choose a divorce I would really question whether you really have a partner or if you really did communicate a vow or really the most of part of this is you're really going to wreck your kids now here's the thing kids are amazingly resilient they get through it they'll get past this but the problem is why would you want to make your kids be resilient let's actually give them a heads up and if they don't have parents that divorce they're really going to do a hell of a lot better in life and they won't have to process all this pain for themselves because you guys probably know this whenever a family divorces the kids always blame themselves what did I do I should have been better I should have done this I should have done my homework that's what kids do they always place it on themselves and so they have a lot they have to process so my challenge would be don't make your kids have to be resilient so that's the first one you could lawyer up suck it up a lot of couples choose this as well you might have a faith or a cultural expectation of not divorcing where divorce is wrong or divorce is not something that we need to do or this would be the wrong thing we just can't get a divorce and so you suck it up and so what's sucking up looks like is the parents will suck it up and they'll get through the next decade and a half or two decades and they'll get the kids raised and so it's all about the family and you've seen this you have totally seen this is the family the marriage the couple the mom and the dad totally revolve around the kids and they make sure the kids are okay the kids are going to be educated and they get everything the kids everything works out for the kids and they make it happen and the dad don't really get connected ever and so they're a great team they might do logistics but their marriage no intimacy no closeness no connection and it's really tough but then what happens and this is actually the second major spike in divorce in the seasons of marriage the first one is when the kids are very little it's a major spike in divorce there second spike in divorce is empty nest and so you get through you get the kids done you've sucked it up and now you look at each other going and who are you yeah it's kind of that's what happens there's no connection so that's when they finally go okay we're done and this actually is pretty tough on the family as well your kids aren't little but it's still a really disruptive thing so that would be sucking that up or make the choice say alright together we're going to grow up let's do this together let's make sure we're going to be able to um find out what we need to change how we need to grow um and do this together so let's look at the next step so it's the reorder so chemistry phase is the honeymoon chaos is uncertainty commitment is the rebuilding phase so this is reorder how are we going to do this so you rebuild with responsibility collaboration and commitment so the responsibility piece this is a really important part of this remember I was talking about how you're responsible for my happiness or my unhappiness you're responsible for how I feel about myself or you're responsible for navigating and taking care of all these inner terminals that I have you're the one that takes care of that um and if that's the case um or you're responsible for my external validation giving making sure I feel good about myself this is a really significant part of growth for everybody getting to a place where I take accountability and responsibility for me and I'm able to own when I make mistakes and say I was wrong shouldn't have called you a name shouldn't have done this taking responsibility and ownership for my own stuff and being responsible for being able to say I got my own shit to deal with taking care of what I need to and if it means that you would go through therapy for yourself by all means read the books but you have to take the responsibility to say this is on me my own personal growth is mine it's a really really significant part of this so that's mine I own it I'm going to become a stronger human being I'm going to become more healthy I'm going to become the best version of myself that's a really significant part of this collaboration so this is a responsibility is taking that as an individual that this is something I have to do collaboration is the whole thing of we're going to do this together let's do this and if one person says no that is really really sad but if both person say yeah let's do this I'm on let's make this happen that's actually a really cool thing and so then commitment is just I'm going to make the commitment to recommit the vow that I made long ago but even though the vow I made I may have made it thinking that I was going to get all this stuff with my twitter patient and all the chemistry and that was the thing I was actually bought into now I'm going to recommit to saying okay we're going to rebuild something on a much stronger platform it's on a much stronger foundation it's built on a stronger commitment and then start with good enough marriage and when you hear that this is a his book is all or nothing marriage another good resource he talks about to start with a good enough marriage and when you hear that you go I don't want good enough marriage but when you think about it if you master anything you have to start off with good enough I mean if you do martial arts or if you have mastered a musical instrument you know you think about when you start man you are clumsy you are awkward you don't know what you're doing you don't know where you're going but you have to start with the beginner's mind and that's what this is going we're just starting we don't even know how to do marriage yet we're just starting maybe we've had a good season you might have been married seven ten years but it was based on a wrong foundation and now looking at it and going you know what we're just starting we are starting to rebuild on a totally different platform and it's a really important category to be able to think about how do we actually do that and it starts with just saying alright let's just start with a good enough marriage let's start with beginner's mind and go from there the other category you know when you get a divorce you always think the grass is greener on the other side there's going to be somebody else out there for me if you get a divorce you're just going to replicate the same old shit it's going to go over and over and over again you'll get married again you know twitter patient blah blah blah all of a sudden hits the fan same old stuff then you do it again and again that's what happens and so the big part of this is saying I'm not going to go with the grass is greener on the other side on the other hand the grass is greener and you guys have probably heard this the grass is greener where you water it it's a really important part of this whole thing grass is greener right here because I'm going to take care of what I have here remember the whole thing if I love you but I'm not in love with you you got this I love you piece you have this deep bond you have history you have family you have massive things that you've done together grow it keep it going grass is greener where you water it so except what is what marriage really is it's not what I've been sold it's not what everybody's saying and then recommit to something bigger because it's so much greater the depth of intimacy and closeness and connection and what you would be able to have it goes into this it's just so much greater do your own work like I said with responsibility build a solid sense of self find out who you really are and I have another acronym I don't need you but I want you and this is a really important part of this so if I need you to fill me to validate me that's the problem and so I need to get to a space where I actually don't need you now when I say I don't need you but I want you that didn't sound very romantic they're not going to make any movie on that statement but that statement is actually a healthy relational statement and when I need you that means that it's a codependent thing where I have to have you fulfill me or validate me or complete me but if I don't need you I am whole and complete within myself I don't need you to validate me because I have a strong sense of self then that actually is a really strong place to have a strong relationship it's really important this is another really important remember I was talking about the narratives and those horrible things that we'd say about each other and that they're my enemy respect and to me respect is believe the best in each other they're not your enemy believe the best in this person this person is a good person they we've had a good life I've chosen them when it really comes down to it there was a reason why I chose them and the reason right now why I don't like them is because I don't feel good about my life or my marriage and that's a really important thing they're not your enemy believe the best in them and then commit to your well-being and the well-being of the other person just think about that just going I want you to thrive I want me to thrive and when you both commit to that things totally change so this is another I love this quote and my wife loves it as well so my wife has been married to five different men they're all me I remember when I got married when I was 23 she was 21 man I was a young punk I had no idea what life was all about I had no idea what I was getting into and then as the seasons of life we've been married 37 years we still got a lot more to go and but the thing is I have changed so much and yeah if my wife was here she'd tell you all the different guys that have been and not not not all of them have been pleasant trust me so just to kind of re review this whole thing you got the order which was chemistry the disorder was chaos the reorder is commitment the honeymoon phase uncertainty phase and the rebuilding phase so during the chemistry honeymoon enjoy it like I said it's a beautiful wonderful thing it's an amazing gift to feel all the feelings and enjoy the beauty of that connection just not the substance of a marriage so in the disorder stay with it remember it's not the time to give up on your marriage just because you're in a disruption doesn't mean your marriage sucks or something's wrong with your marriage it means it's doing exactly what it needs to do it's doing exactly it's moving you from a good from a less healthy place to a more healthy place and then create something great together this is what it's all about creating an amazing relationship an amazing foundation an amazing environment to really raise your kids it's an amazing thing so finally this is a quote from a German pastor Dietrich Bonhoeffer it's not your love that sustains your marriage but from now on it's your marriage that sustains your love thanks so I guess we have a little bit of time for questions so any questions thoughts alright okay so go ahead and say it and then I'll repeat it just so that we'll go ahead and go ahead and start over there you go okay thanks Stacy my husband and I when we got engaged we had gone to I told the lady that we were looking at renting her apartment that she said when are you getting married and I said I don't know he hadn't asked me yet and when we got out of that he was upset at me because he said why did you tell her that and I said because you hadn't asked me so he's on one side of the car I'm on the other side of the car and he says well will you there was no diamond ring we got matching wedding bands this this was 50 years ago and but we didn't a lot of people young people today I think want a wedding but don't want the marriage and and marriages work I would agree and we have had 50 years of a wonderful marriage because we went into it as wide open and we went into it that divorce wasn't an option and we would work through whatever problems and we we have we have worked through them and I feel that I am a blessed woman yeah there's no doubt about it and what I really like about what you're saying some people actually get the message that divorce divorce marriage is tough and and it's a it's a journey and it's a journey together and if you have that commitment to say we're going to do this journey together and there are times when it's going to be extremely difficult but it's going there are times that are going to be freakishly amazing I mean that's the thing is you go it's it's it's a journey it's it's not the destination that we're looking for it's what how do we do this together so I love your story and it is it is gosh a lot of there's a lot of things going on with the the generations that are coming up because a lot of them are choosing not to get married but I think most people and that's what I wanted to say in my my in this conversation is that most people don't understand the seasons of a marriage or how marriage actually works and most people kind of see and I think that's why people are really hesitate they see a lot of marriages that have broken and divorced and so they they're trying not to do that but I think if people more people knew about these are regular seasons and this is the purpose of marriage that I think that that more people would go let's do this because they know it there's more substance to it so yeah in your practice what do you see specifically that messes up that order the breakdown and the reorder I mean what do you see as the some stumbling blocks for people not to move forward even with council now that's good question so is you know how it's talking about how one partner might want it and the other partner doesn't I think when one person is so hurt by the other person that they just do that scorched earth thing and there's just no turning back where there's damage and betrayal and all this I think that's that's when it probably that's the gosh that's when it really doesn't have any hope if there's that kind of pain but then it's I don't know what it is there's the pain but then there's this feeling I have I'm going to be vindictive and I'm going to be revengeful and I'm going to cause more pain to you than you've given to me that that's the the deal breaker but when couples come and they're both hurt and they're and they're just trying to figure it out and how do we rebuild this and if they're if they're both kind of hurting but they don't know what to do that's that's what we can work with you know alright guys thank you very much appreciated your attention thank you we can win this war okay well joining us from Orlando Florida is the man in that clip Anthony dream Johnson who says he wants to abolish feminism and make women great again but it also says with the trademark make women great again always great make women great again they're going to do a three day seminar for women led by all men in mansplaining news a three day conference for women led by men hopes to make women great again how the 22 convention will make you the greatest you ever raise your femininity by 500% first of all how is a man supposed to tell a woman how to be the ultimate woman women need to be taught how to be great again oh yes we do how to land a husband how to lose weight how to pump out a bunch of kids why do men think they need to fix the problems of women well it says the world's ultimate event for women yeah Orlando Florida that's going to be the scene of the crime it's mansplaining platoosa and say no to the toxic bullying feminist dogma brought by men to make women great again taking the stage now is the founder of the 22 convention you're in for a treat mr anthony dream johnson anthony dream johnson anthony dream johnson the first president of the manosphere it's run by all men which promises to quote make women great again this course is guaranteed to raise your femininity by 500% together we will make women great again excuse me i'm mansplaining her she said there's nothing wrong