 Joe Rogan experienced number 1,175. Chris Kresser and Dr. Joel Kahn. I know a lot of you guys were hoping this was going to be like a carnivore versus a vegan thing, but unfortunately it's quite the opposite. Both of these guys come from like a predominantly plant-based diet. Chris Kresser advocating for more some animal foods, nutrient-dense animal foods in the diet, but they kind of both agree that a standard American diet is bad and that different people have different nutritional requirements, which is completely incorrect. You know, everyone needs a base, fat-soluble vitamin content in the diet, and you know, after looking at this podcast from the outside, I feel like it was almost set up to just look like both diets were okay to follow. I feel like Chris Kresser held back on a lot of information, and even when he was holding back on this information, Dr. Joel Kahn contradicted himself in many, many ways and said some very outlandish things. So let's go over that briefly. Initially, they kind of disagreed upon what studies would be good. You know, Joel Kahn was for epidemiological studies and Chris Kresser was against them favoring randomized controlled trials, but this whole podcast was this just two and a half hours back and forth on Joel Kahn clinging to old science and USDA guidelines and health organizations saying that, oh, you're a conspiracy theorist if you think these people have been wrong for 60 years. Chris Kresser was presenting new science, new studies, randomized controlled trials using logic saying that, you know, science is progressing. You know, we used to think the world is flat, and I know some of you guys still do, but you know, that's besides the point. You know, science does change and progress, and the initial science that these USDA guidelines are based off of is completely crooked. I mean, the topics they argued on were mainly the saturated fat and cholesterol, and they did touch on heme iron, they did touch on carcinogens briefly, they touched on heterocyclic amines briefly, but they didn't really go in depth. They brought up TMAO, which we will touch on, and then he brought up blue zones a lot, but the cancer stuff guys, the heterocyclic amines, the saturated fat and cholesterol, I'm going to link you guys some videos down below in the description, because I have two excellent videos explaining the carcinogens in meat from colorectal cancer to heterocyclic amines. I also have an excellent video explaining saturated fat, cholesterol, and the history of how the USDA guidelines came to be. I don't want to explain that in this video, it will take too long, so definitely check those out. I just wanted to critique the things that came up in this video that were contradictory. You know, Joel Kahn clings to those USDA guidelines, and then Chris Kresser brings up, well, they have Coca-Cola and Nestle funding those meetings and stuff, and you literally see that stuff advertised, and then Joel Kahn was like, oh yeah, that's crooked, that's bad, but how can Joel Kahn say that's crooked, that's bad, but he's pushing the USDA guidelines because they agree with his idea that cholesterol and saturated fat should be limited in the diet. And not only that, the USDA guidelines has slowly been backing off cholesterol, they did that in 2015 quietly, and they said, hey, saturated fat limited to less than 35%. They're trying to save face, they don't want to lose credibility, and Joel Kahn is also bringing up these blue zones constantly, the centenarians. You talking about us Italians? You talking about Sardinians? Really? I'm not from Sardinia, I'm from Naples, but what I will say is just like Sardinians, we have a love for our pork, our sheet milk, and very fatty, high quality animal foods. Little did Joel Kahn know was he was literally saying, look at these centenarians, look at the Sardinians, he was literally saying, look at these high fat intake people and how they live so long, but he doesn't know that. That was the one glaring thing in this whole podcast. I was like, dude, don't you know Sardinians love pork, and he keeps bringing up blue zones. What about countries? France and Korea, the French paradox, they have the lowest rates of heart disease in the world, and that's because of the vitamin K2 content of the foods they eat. The French consume lots of cheeses and high quality charcuterie, which are very high in vitamin K2. The Koreans consume large amounts of pork and fermented vegetables, natto, I'm not sure if they consume natto, but fermented vegetables that have high amounts of K2, and these are required for calcium metabolism. The constant is normally this vitamin K2 would need to be obtained from animal foods, so although those countries consume high amounts of fat and fish, and they have low rates of heart disease, I'm deducing it to the higher K2 intake because that seems to be the main possibility. I just think that you're bringing up blue zones and stuff when I can bring up entire countries of low heart disease. It blows it out of the water. They started talking about Seventh Day Adventists and bringing up things like healthy user bias. If people eat a hot dog, they're going to have it with a bun. If people are prone to eating healthy, they're prone to exercising and not smoking and not drinking. That's pretty much what they went over the whole podcast. Later in the podcast, he attempted to bring up the IGF-1 thing. The problem with IGF-1 is that it's only related to breast cancer studies with consumption, I believe, of conventional dairy, which is a completely ridiculous statement to make. It's a blanket statement made for everything. Then he started bringing up TMAO. The ridiculous thing about TMAO is vegans will always say, TMAO from red meat and eggs is so bad for you, but it's multiple times higher in fish, literally 100 times higher in fish. Chris Crusher brought this up. TMAO consumption from fish is not shown to have any negative effects. It's a red herring. TMAO is like something that vegans try to isolate as a blanket statement and apply it to everything outside of the context of the nutrient profile of the whole food. Then what really bothered me is DwellCon had the balls to say, fish causes diabetes because fish has saturated fat and animal protein, which is complete wacko shit. Then he started saying PCBs, mercury, but he was mentioning things related to pollution, not necessarily fish in itself. It doesn't really make any sense. Then when Joe Rogan asked Chris Crusher, okay, what vitamins are in animal foods versus plants? This didn't make sense to me. This is where I thought, is this a whole set up? Is this whole podcast just set up? Because Chris Crusher says, B12, zinc, iron, coaling, taurine, and creatine are in animal foods. Then plant foods have more carotenoids, polyphenols, antioxidants, but animal foods have every vitamin, every element, every mineral in large amounts. Vitamin C and vitamin E being the antioxidant vitamins, certain animal foods have higher amounts of antioxidants than any vegetable food. So I was like, wait, Chris Crusher knows this. I know he knows this stuff. So why is he not bringing it up? It doesn't make any sense. They kind of understated the importance of animal foods here, and then they started talking about how they pretty much surmised that a vegan diet with supplementing certain things is healthier than a standard American diet, but they were literally saying vegetarians are lower in vitamins than omnivores, but those are omnivores on a standard American diet who are already unhealthy. So what kind of measurement is that? They started talking about the carnivore diet around three hours and 20 minutes in. They brought up Shawn Baker's lab work, which is completely ridiculous because that guy dead lifted more than the natural record 10 years ago. He did that for like 800 pounds, which is close to the raw world record for his weight class. Using this guy's a metric that he's been on the diet for a year and a half and does all this crazy stuff, not a good metric for the carnivore diet, dude. Then Joel Kahn mentions the importance of vitamin C, which is, you know, they just don't, what drove me crazy was they don't know that vitamin C is an animal foods in large amounts. They don't know that. And he brought up vitamin A and vitamin C, and Chris Crusher was like, oh, I don't know if Kenny has vitamin C. Are you guys serious? How do these super intelligent people not know what vitamins are in these organs? He's driving me crazy. And they started bringing up the lack of omega-3s and fiber and meat sticking in the colon in the diet. This is just, I was literally laughing at what these guys were saying. A whole meat diet is low on omega-3. Yeah, if you eat grain-fed ribeye all day. And then Chris Crusher started talking about the rating of nutrient density of foods, how organ meats were at the top, then shellfish, then fatty fish, and how could you just, you kind of like, you were kind of brushing off the nutrient density of animal foods, and then you go to say that they're the most nutrient-dense foods. I just feel like this whole podcast was staged to make it so one diet doesn't look glaringly better than the other. That's how I feel. He did mention at three hours, 24 minutes, and 30 seconds, there's a, Joe Rogan said, oh, there's a guy I follow on YouTube, and he advocates organ meats. I'm sorry, I forgot his name. That was me. He forgot my name. Come on. That was close. This close. What are you going to do, man? But that was a summary for you guys. I think I was going to try to condense this down even further, but just the topics they talked about on this podcast. It was a waste of three hours and 45 minutes, man. I should have gone to bed three hours ago. I got to get up for work in like six hours. I'm going to be so tired. But if you guys would like to support me, please just share the channel. We could do a makeup check for you clowns. I got a rag here. I'm going to wipe my face. Oh man, look at all that makeup. So if you guys would like to reach out to me for consultations in regards to the carnivore diet, fitness, health, anything related, water consumption, shoot me an email, frankatufano.com. Outside of that, if you guys would like to see any particular videos in the future, please let me know.