 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. Welcome to Mind Pump. Now we are known as a fitness podcast, but we really are a health podcast. So we like to cover topics that fit in the sphere of health. Usually that means we're talking about exercise and nutrition. But sometimes we talk about spirituality, relationships, and public policy. Right now, now we're based out of California. And in California in particular, we have witnessed ourselves this explosion of homelessness. I have never seen tent cities pop up in my hometown of San Jose, and over the last five years, I've seen them pop up all over the place. And so what we wanted to do is we wanted to do an episode where we talk to an expert on this subject that could possibly shed some light on this health epidemic that isn't just affecting the homeless themselves, but is now starting to affect all of us. And of course, we care. We care about the people who are sick. And we care of people who aren't sick who are being affected by this. So this episode is a little bit different. But again, we believe that it contributes to the entire sphere of total health. So this is an informative episode. We interviewed Dr. Drew Pinsky. He is a doctor. He's been on media for a very, very long time. But more recently, this has become one of his missions. His mission is to change public policy to solve the homeless issue. And so in this episode, we ask him, like, how bad the problem really is, especially here in California? What are some of the potential harms this has on society? What is causing the problem? We hear a lot about affordable housing and how it's so expensive in California and why, how that may be contributing to the issue. He totally, totally disagrees and sheds some light on this problem. Now in this episode, we also asked his opinion on the current state of the coronavirus shelter in place, how it's affecting the homeless population. So if you are interested in health and general health and you want to shed some light on a problem that may be affecting you and your town, we think you're going to really enjoy this interview and this episode. You can find Dr. Drew on his website, drdrew.com, drdrew.com. Now I do want to let everybody know before the episode starts that you have one day left to take advantage of our core training ab workout program. It's called the NoBS six pack formula. This is a full workout for your abs, for your core. It was designed to develop your midsection so that your muscles are more visible even at higher body fat percentages. Now the program is half off with this promotion. Again, you have one day left. And with the discount, the whole program, life access, it's only $28.50. By the way, this program also comes with a 30 day money back guarantee so you have nothing to lose. Here's how you get that discount. Go to nobssixpack.com. That's N-O-B-S. The number six, P-A-C-K.com and use the code noBS50. That's N-O-B-S-5-0, no space for the discount. I wanted to talk to you about something that you've been more recently quite vocal about. I would consider you one of the, I think leading experts on this particular subject, especially in the state of California. And I'm referring to the homelessness problem. Some people are saying it's a crisis of homelessness. How bad is the issue in the state of California right now? How bad is this? How big of an emergency is it? This has been a problem that's been accumulating for decades and it has become a particularly acute in California because of Prop 47 and Prop 57 which essentially legalized drug use and drug trafficking and stealing to support your drug habit. So many addicts from all over the country found their way to California and that has swollen our ranks on the streets where now we're approaching 100,000 people that are ill primarily with mental illness and ill with medical issues that are going unattended because of their mental illness. And we're losing three people a day dying on the streets just in Los Angeles alone. Wow. I mean, before the coronavirus, people were very, they sounded like huge numbers and they are, but it's certainly sort of drifted into the background with our current crisis. You mentioned two props and I'm not super familiar with them. How did they legalize drugs and legalize stealing to support drug habits? Well, there's a Prop 57 allows you to steal, I think up to $950 and it's strictly a misdemeanor. And when you issue a misdemeanor citation to a drug addict, they don't show up. They don't show up for anything, any of the legal consequence to that. They just go about their business. So law enforcement has actually stopped even citing them because it's not even worth their time. Now that has slowed down again in the coronavirus, but you could have stood in a target before the coronavirus crisis and just watch people walking out around the cashier all day long. And they stopped fighting it because it was just no point. So that was, this was all an attempt in California to sort of deal with our overcrowding in our prisons. So they essentially made crimes, not crimes all of a sudden. And legalizing drug use was thought to be somehow a compassionate law when in fact that's committing, that's murder. It's murder to legalize drugs because you have people with an illness that goes unchecked will die. And rather than giving them consequences and motivating them into treatment, you're letting them just run their addiction and they will die. Do you think the laws should be more like, if you use drugs in your own private residence, you hurt yourself, that's different. But if you're in public, you shouldn't be able to use these drugs. As I know, up here in the Bay Area in San Francisco, every single time I go up there to visit my brother who lives up there, I see at least one person almost every time openly shooting drugs into their hand or their arm or their leg and it's right there, out in the open. To me, there's no difference between out in the open and indoors, it's all gonna end up in death if you don't do something about it. So I mean, there's a bunch of things we gotta do. Modifying Prop 47, Prop 57 is just one of the things. I know Dr. Ben Carson who heads up a HUD is very interested in modifying those laws because he too understands that's one of the major contributors is drug addiction and that is an illness and it is fatal. And we are allowing people to die of it in the name of what, in the name of some ideology. I mean, I've been dealing with drug addiction for 30 years. This is unconscionable, but that's just one piece. There's many pieces of this that are out of whack. What are some of the harms that we're seeing to just society at large from this epidemic? Are we starting to see, aside from the homeless themselves, hurting themselves and dying and getting sick, are we starting to see ramifications to everyone else? So drug addiction is just one piece of this puzzle. The other piece is chronic mental illness. And there's a whole history of how we have dismantled our system for dealing with the chronically mentally ill. It goes actually back to the 1940s when a couple of do-gooding psychiatrists, unelected officials, three guys over the next 30 years determined the policy of the federal government around mental illness and their sole goal, not their sole goal, their primary objective, all three of them, none of whom had ever been in a state mental hospital and worked or really had any experience with treating chronic psychiatric illness. Their goal was to dismantle the state psychiatric system. So 150 years of structured clinical psychiatric care was undone. And these people that need custodial care because of their brain disorders were set out into the streets with no plan for how they would be dealt with. There was something called the Community Mental Health Act in the 1960s that President Kenny initiated that was allegedly gonna prevent mental illness and care on a community basis, our patient for these patients, but no provisions made for them. So they were all sent out into the streets, the noticing homes and the prisons, which is where they ended up. And in addition to dismantling the infrastructure, we changed the laws around how you can help people whose brains aren't working right. It's the craziest thing of all time. Overnight we went from need for care as the criteria for how you determine whether or not somebody needed psychiatric care. They needed care that they got care. We switched it overnight with the particularly California through the Lantram and Petrus Short Act into harm to self or other. That's a gigantic distance, gigantic distance. And so the people that are gravely disabled by their brain disorder are left out in the streets. Only if you have a psychiatric problem. If you have dementia, well, then we watch in and take care of them. But if you have a psychiatric illness that's affecting your brain function, well, then you're not allowed to touch people. And that is one of the most disturbing qualities of these laws. Dementias are progressive and inexorable. They go forward no matter what you do. And yes, a compassionate society goes in and takes care of people whose brains are working right. With psychiatric illness, somehow we stand back and go, oh, we can't touch them. They're entitled to do whatever they want. They want to live on the streets. And we have thousands of family that go up to Sacramento on a regular basis and beg for help. They have resources. They have doctors. They have a place for their son or daughter to stay. But they can't bring them in because of the psychiatric illness. They can't touch them. They can't use law enforcement. And they're essentially every time told to take a hike. It's disgusting. And the psychiatric illnesses, the trajectory of those illnesses can be changed if you intervene. Unlike dementia, which even when you intervene, just keeps going, psychiatric illness, the entire course can be changed if you intervene early and often. But we are allowing an entire generation to deteriorate on the streets. No other country does this. It's bizarre. We have to take care of sick people. Now, Dr. Drew, do we know how many or what percentage of the people that are on the street that actually are suffering from chronic mental illness? It's hard to get between drug addiction and mental illness. If you combine them, you get about 70 or 80%. That other 20% are people that are essentially transiently homeless. And the average duration on the street for that population is about three months. And those people use the resources. They're happy to use resources that are available to them. They're cumbersome. They're difficult. We don't do a great job with it. But they use them and they get off the streets. The psychiatric patients and the drug addicts suffer from something called anisognosia. Anisognosia is an old term that describes how stroke patients perceive their disabilities. If you have a right-sided stroke in your brain, your left side of your body is out, you literally don't know it. And that's called anisognosia. Well, psychiatric patients and drug addicts have anisognosia to the effects of their illness. They feel like they're doing fine. They just wanna go out on the streets. Just wanna use. That is the distortion of the brain disorders and that is anisognosia. And again, if somebody has dementia and anisognosia, we jump in. If they have a stroke and anisognosia, we jump in because their brain isn't working right. I mean, look, you give a directive to a physician, everyone is advised in particularly California to put in writing your directives to your doctor should you get into a condition when your brain isn't working right. You end up in a ventilator from coronavirus. What are your directives to us when your brain doesn't work? We need something, we need the exact same directive for psychiatric care. We need a psychiatric directive to physicians. When somebody develops a major psychiatric illness, we just sit down and go, okay, you will decompensate in the future. How would you like me to approach that? Do you want me to pull you in? Keep you in a hospital, give you medication, make sure you get recompensated. And most people will say, yes, of course. But we've not been doing that on a systematic basis. And that's one of the other things we need to do. As citizens, we're strongly led to believe by our politicians that the homeless issue is due to the cost of living in California that we don't have enough. Totally false, totally ridiculous, totally insane. I've been up, I've spoken on this in Sacramento and they back down when I get up and show the evidence and give the history. That is a ridiculous, if you put these people in, first of all, they don't want to go indoors because of the antisegnosia. Secondly, you put them indoors, they're gonna die quicker. They have untreated mental illness. And unless we have a plan to deal with that and manage that, this will be a catastrophe. I cannot, it's unconscionable to me that they cling to this narrative about housing. Yes, we have a housing problem in California and we have a problem with untreated mental illness and addiction. They overlap a bit, but they're not the same thing. Why then do they push that so hard? Why do they continue to push that we need to build more shelters, that we need to provide? We do need to build more shelters. We need more residential facilities. We need more, but they're talking about building affordable housing. And these people aren't appropriate for independent living. They need help. Maybe one day they will be, but in the meantime, they need a long-term residential care. And so yes, another feature of what we need to do is build residential housing, residential treatment centers. We need to staff that up. And we are blocked from doing so by multiple issues. First of all, the Lancer and Petra Short Act prevents us from treating people. Secondly, there's something called the IMD exclusion, which is something that's been in place since the early 60s, which is that Medicaid, Medicare will not pay for chronic psychiatric care. It's insane. I've been to Washington multiple times and advocated for this and I get stonewalled. I make some progress with the economic people, the economics committees over at the White House and then the legislature does stonewalls it. When you talk to politicians and then you talk to the public, do they respond with by saying that what you're offering as solutions are maybe not compassionate? Like why would you force people to get medical care when they don't want it? Why would you put people in jail for harming themselves? Is that what happens? I wouldn't put people in jail. I agree with the fact that they don't belong in jail. They do not belong in jail. But what are you doing with demented patients? Are you treating them? Leave them in the streets to die? What are you doing with people with encephalopathies? Leave them in the streets to die? Why do you treat psychiatric illness differently? It's all brain disorders. It all affects judgment. It all affects thinking. It all is fatal. Why in the world? Why in the world? It's no other country on earth does this. It's so bizarre. It's really bizarre. Anyone that's, you know, I worked in a psychiatric hospital for 30 years seeing my patients dying on the streets. It makes me jump out of my skin. Because your fingers on the pulse of this, are you seeing public opinion on our policy starting to sway and change? Are you seeing any headwind with this? We were making some progress until the coronavirus thing. It sort of faded into the background. I will tell you what happened in Los Angeles. It's shifting and changing. And so we're gonna have to sort of address this differently. So when the coronavirus hit, the gangs came off the streets. They were afraid of getting infected. So the drug suppliers dried up. And magically, the patients on the street, the drug addicts became willing to go indoors. So the governor, very nicely, very appropriately, commandeered a bunch of hotels and motels and put a couple thousand indoors and put some trailers together. This would never have happened without the drug supply drying up. So the drug addicts became motivated. They became willing and they came indoors. And now we've got a problem where the gangs are going out there and now delivering and the liquor stores and the cannabis dispensaries and the gangs are now delivering directly to the facilities where these guys are living. So I don't know quite how we're gonna deal with that and it's gonna be an interesting evolution. At least the homeless professionals, the social workers and psychologists that are working with them can get access to the middle of a more consistent basis now. Let's see if we staff up adequately to meet the needs. They've not been doing that yet. I just read a report that in San Francisco, they're providing alcohol, nicotine and marijuana to... Correct. That's true. Of course. Of course it's true. Wow, that's true. That just doesn't say... Nobody attempting to... Look, if you have a drug addict alcoholic and you don't give them drugs and alcohol, they're gonna find drugs and alcohol. That's what they do. That's what drug addicts do. They use drugs and alcohol. They don't stop just because you put them somewhere. They're overwhelmed by a motivational disorder called addiction and they will do anything to keep using. And they certainly won't stay in where you want them to stay if they can't get access to their substances. Then they go out to the streets. Wow, okay. So now the homeless population would seem to be exceptionally vulnerable to the coronavirus in terms of infection and death. I mean, they're not living in sanitary conditions. They're very close to each other. Are we seeing more infections and more deaths among that population versus the regular population? This is an interesting riddle to try to tease apart. The incidence is shockingly low unless they're indoors. So it's evidence, which something I suspect is true, that if you're outside you can't, it's very hard to transmit this thing. It doesn't transmit in the sunlight. It doesn't transmit in the outer doors. So requiring homeless to go into these recreational centers, it's a little bit, it's weird, but it's a little concerning. So again, in Southern California, they just require them to go in at night and during the day they want to the streets and get to get through their thing. I'm not sure that's a bad thing in terms of the coronavirus. There was an outbreak. Again, the outbreak was in one of the missions. Something like 60% of their population were positive. And the vast, vast, vast majority asymptomatic, which is kind of interesting. So I don't know what to make of that puzzle yet. You would think it would be a lot worse. You would think it would be a humanitarian catastrophe. You think it would rip through them and destroy them. That doesn't seem to be happening, at least not right now. But by virtue of us putting them indoors, we may inadvertently make things worse. It's kind of crazy. Do you think that maybe because the coronavirus did not start in the homeless population that it was amongst everyday regular citizens and that regular citizens, because they don't come in close contact on a regular basis with the homeless, that maybe they just didn't get it at the same time. And now that they're indoors and they're in more close contact with everyday people, that maybe they're being exposed more? Maybe, but then again, why such a high incidence of asymptomatic? Why don't they get sicker? You would think they would, right? Even the older ones are not getting sick. The older homeless folks. So I don't know what to make of it yet. That's something I'm looking at carefully. It's not going bad the way we thought it would, which is kind of just by itself interesting. Wow, okay. I'm gonna take a little bit of a left and just ask you what your opinion is on the potential mental effects and maybe drug, the subsequent increase in drug use and alcohol use that's going on right now because of the shelter in place and the situation. What does it look like from your perspective? Yeah, we don't know yet. I'm hearing, we're gonna see more drug use. We're gonna see more. I think alcohol is up, there's no doubt about that. But whether we're gonna see more uncontrolled alcohol use once things settle down, I don't know. We have to see the evidence once we get on the other side of this. We're all feeling anxious, we're all a bit dysphoric, but maybe there'll be an exuberance on the other side where people will feel relief from this. I don't know. I would caution people from listening to too many just so descriptions of how things are. Of course we're anxious, of course we're depressed. Is that going to be clinically relevant? I'm not sure, I'm not sure. I can tell you that drug addicts and alcoholics tend to get their act together during crises. They're at their best during crises. And I'm seeing some of my patients get it together during all this. So I don't know, we'll see. Very interesting. Do you have any opinions on just the public policy around the coronavirus in general, just how we've been recommended to shelter in place, businesses can't open? Do you have any comments on that? Again, I have concerns, I don't know, but I'm just asking questions. And the question I keep asking is look at the homeless. They're better when they're out of doors. Why do you allow homeless to be out of doors and benefit from that? And citizens, you restrict them from that access. It's a bizarre, it's really a common thing where homeless are allowed to do whatever and citizens must comply with something much more stringent. And it may be harming the citizens not allowing them to go outside and get some sunshine. Vitamin D, UV light, all seem to be benefit for this virus. The idea of sheltering in place, this is a new idea, it's never been done before. Do you understand? This is not as though this is the policy of infectious disease consultants throughout medical history. This is a new idea. Throughout medical history, you quarantined and isolated sick people. The only time in history that populations isolated was back in the middle ages when they hid in their houses from infections and it made things a lot worse. They hid inside with the respiratory viruses and with the rats and the rat droppings and the fleas. It made things a lot worse. The current policy was initiated, if you look at its history, it harkens back to a high school project of a 14-year-old girl in Albuquerque, Arizona who built a model with influenza, which is transmitted by children and affects children very badly, influenza that if you shut down schools, you could significantly decrease the rate of an outbreak. You can flatten the curve, something we know. Her father was a computer modeler and built a bigger model off of that and that became the provisional policy for pandemic of the Bush administration that they now are using. So to this, I've talked to Charles Murray, University of Washington, I've talked to the clinical director of the LA County Department of Health and I asked them all the same question. How do we know that isolating in place is measurably different than social isolation, social distancing, mask wearing, hand washing? And every team I ask that question of an expert, they go, that's a great question. Because they don't have an answer. Now, we are doing a giant experiment. Now we're gonna find out, I would urge people to look at Georgia. Georgia, if A, the virus doesn't get significantly diminished by summer, which it might, it might just go away in the summer. If you look at Georgia, they pick the exact wrong moment to open up. They were accelerating in their cases. So if social distancing is measurably worse than isolation, we should really see a take up on the next week or so at Georgia. So keep an eye on that. That will tell us whether there's really an advantage to isolating in place. Yeah, Sweden is another good example. They had such a much more loose approach to how they handle the virus. And of course hindsight's gonna be 2020. So it's gonna be interesting to look back and see if we made the, the problem is of course they'll, I'm sure the argument will be, well, it could have been much worse, which is I don't know how you could possibly beat that argument. That's right, there will never be an answer. People will just argue and spin on this forever. I would caution against comparing to Sweden. It's such a different situation. It's people live in different settings there. It's just very, very different than here. But I understand what you're saying. And that's, you know, again, we don't know the answer to all this. And in the meantime, there, you know, the good news is therapeutics are advancing rapidly. I've dealt a lot with this case. When I, you know, early on I was just asking people to calibrate their emotions because, you know, we'd just been through a pandemic in 2009 and no one even knew it. I developed H1N1 swine flu. It was horrible. It was very contagious, but not as fatal as this one. Also influenza killed 35 to 60,000 people every year. Infects 30 million or so. That happens every year. People don't even know it's happening. So I was trying to get people to calibrate their emotional response to this. I will tell you, I've seen a few of the cases, you know, I've dealt with it quite a bit now. And man, if you check the risk box of metabolic syndrome, you have hypertension, hypercholesterolemia, you maybe have an antifospholipid antibody. Let's say you have central obesity. You get this thing. It is brutal. It is not the flu. It is something altogether different. Now we're beginning to zero in on the cytokine activation associated with this virus. There's CCR5 inhibitors, there's IL6 inhibitors, there's JK inhibitors. So we're sort of getting improvisational with how we inhibit this cytokine cascade. I think we're gonna get that in the next few weeks. And if we do, then that crazy syndrome where it just kills people in days, hopefully that will be mitigated. Very interesting. One last question in regards to the homeless situation, aside from petitioning our politicians, supporting some of the work that you're doing by getting these people to change our policies, is there anything that we can do as citizens and consumers to help the situation? Is it helpful when we give them money? Is that hurtful? What are some things that we can do now to help that situation, if anything at all? Unfortunately, I don't know how you as a human walk past these people and not give them money and food, but we are absolutely adversely affecting them. The food thing, there's too much food on the streets. Now we have a rat explosion that is carrying its own disease as we had a typhus outbreak here in Southern California, which I knew would happen. We have millions of rats that are with no policy for how to manage that. And there are more serious illnesses that follow on the heel of typhus. So that's coming. So the food, giving food ends up in the rats. I don't know what we do that way. I will tell you, there's Senator Moorlach, State Senator Moorlach has been proposing AB640, which is to give families the capacity to bring their loved ones home. Really pressure your state senators to drop the ideology and be clinical. I mean, you've been saying you wanna follow the science on coronavirus, follow the science on mental illness. And this ideology is just, it's killing people, it thousands and how they can allow that to go on when there's easy fixes. So we can use the law to help people get well from these mental illnesses. Pressure your state representatives. They're the ones that can make the difference. Well, thank you very much. I really appreciate you allowing us to interview you and ask you these questions. Again, we consider you to be one of the best voices on this particular situation. So thanks again, Dr. Drew. Well, I, you know, there's lots of ideas and I would say just one thing for sure, we got to juice up, we gotta expand the facilities to be able to manage this. And that's a piece that nobody's looking at right now. And my fear is, as we, you know, we're getting into deeper financial waters, none of this is gonna get dealt with and you're gonna see an acceleration of people dying on the streets, of illnesses that everywhere on there or all other illness, all the country treat sick people. We, when your brain gets sick, decide, oh no, no, that's different. We can't treat that. Unbelievable, thanks again. Thanks guys. Are you guys as frustrated as I was listening to Dr. Drew talk about like the real cause of this problem? I think I was clenching my teeth that entire time just in anger. Oh, I could feel you over there because I know you who have already expressed your issues that you have up in Santa Cruz because it's got, you've watched it in your. Yeah, it's visibly right in front of me every day and you can see the problem. It's drugs and it's mental illness. And I just, I get so mad that we're not like addressing that head on. That's what we need to focus on. Yeah, I think the big problem, and this is not just the problem with this particular situation. This is a problem that happens with a lot of different kinds of policies is that politicians pass feel good laws that do not produce good results. So when they get up to get elected, they'll say things like, being homeless shouldn't be a crime or if you, we shouldn't spend money on treating these people, it's their choice or we feel bad for them and it's because we don't have a cheap housing. That's the reason. And it feels good, it sounds good, but the results are the exact opposite. It's the opposite. I've lived in California my entire life and before my eyes, I have seen in the last like five years, the homelessness population explode. I've never seen in San Jose ever. I've lived here my entire life, right? I've never seen tent cities in this, in the city, never. And now there are, I mean, when I'm driving to work, I see at least two or three of them. It's everywhere. On the way to work. It's crazy. It's insane to me, but what was really infuriating is that he's talking about this kind of stuff and they don't like, I don't want to take him seriously and it's kind of weird. I was surprised by the percentage. I didn't realize that. And you've alluded to it before. You've never actually dropped the percentage on I know we've talked off air about this, that many of them are suffering from a mental illness. I was not privy to that. I was under the impression that maybe a smaller percentage had mental illness and then the rest of them either one chose to do that or like you said in transient where they're in between houses and they just choose to go do that. I didn't realize that. You're talking about close to 80% of the people that are suffering from a mental illness. Yeah, and they have nowhere to go. You know, there's no treatment facility for certain types of mental illness. Like they just, I mean, they don't really have an answer or a place besides like, let's give them their own spot to kind of figure this out. It's like, let's get them treatment. Like, what does that look like? And why don't we have that established here in California especially? They don't even know that they need treatment. You know, I forgot the term he used, but it was like, you know, when you're mentally ill and you don't know, you need help. So they won't even seek it out because they have no idea that they're that as bad as they are. But statistically speaking, people without mental illness and without major drug abuse issues who are homeless do not remain homeless for very long. This is a statistic across the US. If somebody does become homeless, typically it's a couple months. They end up on a person's couch. They end up in a shelter. They get back on their feet. It's rarely a permanent problem for people who aren't mentally ill, who don't have a drug. What did you say, three months was typical? Yeah, those cases you weren't a drug addict or you didn't have mental illness. It was about that time. Yeah, now what was, and you know, I've seen videos of this by the way, my brother sends these to me because he lives up in the city. And it's videos from people who work in like Walgreens or Target or whatever. And they're literally filming because they can't do anything. Just stealing, right? Oh, they'll go in with like garbage bags and just put deodorants and hair sprays and whatever in the bags. They know the exact amount. Yes, as long as it's under, what do you say, 900 something dollars? 900, yeah, 50. And then they'll just walk out and the reason why they let them is because if they stop them, the cops let them basically, oh, put it, you know, and then they come back and do it again. And he said that he's seen them do this, walk around the corner, put the deodorants out on the street and sell them for like 50. So they're literally stealing the stuff and then selling it around the corner for 50 cents a piece, making their money to feed their drug habit. And that, I mean, that's gonna destroy. Just keeps this problem, we're gonna allow more crime. Yeah, and that's gonna destroy the city because I know if I'm not mistaken, Walgreens is like telling the city, we're gonna start pulling our stores if you don't handle this. There's no, why would we have our stores here if you guys are gonna keep doing this? Yeah, and it's unfortunate that, you know, all that momentum kind of going up into this specific issue kind of got halted because the coronavirus came through and it's like, it's very much downplayed now. That's on everybody's top of mind. How about how crazy that was? He was saying that a smaller percentage of the homeless are getting affected with coronavirus than everyone else. That's really interesting. And I know he said to caution about what people are saying about predictions of what's gonna happen because of COVID but I can't help but think about that. I can't help but, I mean, I just read that thing in Australia, the report that was coming out there, the prediction of suicide rate and you gotta think the homelessness that's gonna skyrocket here in about 30 days when they pull the moratorium on evictions. How many people are gonna be on the streets? Cause that, and I know that these aren't the mental illness people and the people that he's probably really concerned about but I would think that would just make the problem 10x because of that. Well, I think if you're depressed, anxious, lost your job, lost your house, a percentage of those people might turn to drugs which then could fuel latent mental illness or create mental illness problems. So I think you might be right, Adam, with that one but what sucks is there's not a whole lot of stuff that we can do aside from- Well, yeah, it's really, this is a really tough one for me to even talk about. I was sitting there listening to him and I'm like everything I'm hearing him say, like I agree and he's right but then I also feel like we have- What's the solution? Yeah, there's no solution. I don't know. So for me, I struggle when we talk about a topic like this that I feel like nobody has the real answer and it's strange to me cause it almost, if you unpack something and go deep enough especially when it comes to situations like this it almost always has something to do with money, right? It's where we're not gonna make money off of it or it's gonna cost too much money and it's weird to me that we wouldn't just create, I mean, the government loves to create new subsidies like why wouldn't we do that in this situation and why is it keeping them from legislating that? I don't understand. It doesn't make sense to me. It doesn't feel good. So if you're a politician in San Francisco and you come out and say, we're gonna make drug use on the street illegal and we're gonna, if you steal, you're gonna be, it's gonna be a felony then they're gonna come out and say, that's not nice and that's mean and- It's cause it's like punching down, right? Like people that are already down and out and now we're gonna arrest them for their problems, like it doesn't feel as good. Yeah, but the answer is to not do anything is not a better answer. Yeah, make it worse. It's not a better answer at all. The one thing that he said towards the end there was he talked about all the other core morbidity, co-morbidities that dramatically increase the negative symptoms or the potentially fatal symptoms of COVID and he named a bunch that were related to just poor metabolic health and obesity. And that is right along the lines of all the other stuff that I've been reading. I know in New York, I think they said that that was the number one reason that people would get COVID and die from it. It was all related to obesity and obesity related diseases. Well, what you would explain why a lot of the homeless are not because when was the last time you saw an obese homeless person? Maybe, yeah, that might be. And they're exposed to the elements a lot more and getting sunlight and I thought that was interesting about people being outside a lot more versus inside. Like this is a grand experiment keeping everybody inside. It does make me wonder how much weaker people's immune systems are if because they've been at home, maybe eating worse, maybe drinking more alcohol, not getting as much vitamin D from sunlight, then they're reopening. So now we're re-entering into exposing ourselves with a weaker immune system potentially. Is that gonna cause more problems? I don't know, very interesting. But again, very interesting episode and I wish we could have more solutions. But what I really hope is that people listening get as enraged as I am or at least motivated enough to tell your politicians and what ends up happening if the politicians see that there's enough people talking about this, it then becomes beneficial for them to run on a different policy. So I think they need to know that if they run on different policy that they'll get elected and if they don't, that they won't get elected or definitely not get re-elected. That's the big one. I think the people, especially in California, they should get them all out because they've already caused this problem and send a big signal to our local governments and to the state and even federal governments that you mess this problem up, you're not gonna get re-elected and we're gonna kick you out. And with that, go to mindpumpfree.com, download all of our guides, resources and books. You can also find the three of us on Instagram. You can find Justin at Mind Pump, Justin, me at Mind Pump Salon, Adam at Mind Pump, Adam. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes Maps Anabolic, Maps Performance and Maps Aesthetic, nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.