 Welcome back to the breakfast on plus TV Africa our first major conversation for today is going to be directed mostly at You the citizen a lot of times Nigerians don't like to be told that they are to blame for a bad government Government, you know every now and then when you hear statements like citizens get the government that they deserve It hurts a lot of Nigerians because they believe that they are genuinely good people and they don't deserve to have a government in power that doesn't You know work for them And they of course are completely brilliant hard-working Nigerians that excel in any other part of the world But back home is a challenge and so Nigerians don't like to be told that they deserve the government You know that they have in power But the discussion we're having this morning is the role of the citizen in nation building and we're speaking this morning Of course, thanks to GD Johnson for staying with us so far And of course, we're also going to be joined by Zoom by Mark Adebayo, who's a public affairs analyst. Good morning to Mr. Adebayo. Thanks for joining us. Good morning. Good morning. Thank you plus TV Africa Thank you for having me to see you. All right, so I'm gonna start with you before we get to GD Johnson Mr. Adebayo, do you agree with the Narrative that citizens get the government that they deserve and that's including Nigerians Do they get the government that they truly deserve? Well, I disagree that is a sociological blackmail propounded by the ruling cliques Of Nigeria that the people deserve the kind of government they have. You see One of the things that put a light to that Position and postulation is the fact that It is only when Citizens are laid back and lethargic and wouldn't I couldn't care less about how they are rule of misrule of misgovernment that you can say, okay They deserve the kind of government they have. Okay. Let me give you an instance. Yes, as protest for instance Look at how it came out. Look at how it ended. So look at how it pan out the Nigerian youth confronted a government That that was absolutely intolerant of criticism or opposition and came out every down on the youth kill many of them And this of that in Nigeria We have not I keep saying it. We have not been Fortunately to have leaders of sterling qualities to charity committed visionary capable competent and You know progressive in thinking we have not been able to to have that in Nigeria We have not been able to have leaders in the mood of people that are shaping the United Arab Emirates We have not been able to have leaders that are the shape post post second world war France and other European country Other European countries. We have not been lucky enough to have leaders in the mood of Thomas and Cara We have not be happy. We have not been lucky to have leaders in the mood of Nessian Mandela, we have not been lucky to have the leaders in mood of who that has shaped me that have shaped Singapore into what it has become today. That's why the fathers were in the same league with those countries It is quite unfortunate. You know, you can only blame citizens in the capacity and the power To be able to elect who the duly Desire you understand well, but in a situation where your electoral system a lot of processes have been compromised where Electoral featuring goes to the ISB that you cannot be holding this isn't responsible in that respect That is not to say that this is do not have a responsibility to even to also push back on such Or such shenanigans. We have a responsibility even to reject your 1000 era to reject your 500 era So far for four years. We have a responsibility to like it's up in Ghana We are police have brought rise and close and the citizens were training back at them We need to get to that level in Nigeria and I think we are going to get there in 2023 Nigerians are good. So far first at the level of civil society even at the level of political opposition We are mobilizing Nigeria's Don't collect one kung fu of rice and 500 era to suffer for another four years I think we have suffered enough in this country for people to come to to realization that look 500 era cannot save you one thousand in fact one million. I cannot save you from four years of suffering We need to move beyond that. All right. Ms. Adebayo I'm going to have jillie johnson also respond to same question, you know with regards, you know If if Nigerian citizens get the government that they truly deserve I would ask that many in totality because the fundamental principle of democracy rest with citizens That's democracy third democracy is only Nigerian citizen that can vote in an election The ultimate authority That's the sovereignty of democratic society rest with the citizenry And the question we need to ask is that what is the level of the participation? of the citizenry in the democratic process What is the level of the engagement? of the elites among the citizenry in the democratic process what is the involvement of Those that are involved with special interest groups civil society Labor groups and the rest of its opinion leaders public opinion leaders of the citizenry in the democratic process because in democracy We said is the rule of the majority The citizen is not the rule by the gun is the rule by the people We said democracy's government of the people by the people for the people and if the people Don't hone which is the citizen if they don't hone the polity If they don't hone it, then we have the kind of system which we have now I'll give you an example. You have a situation in Lagos. Did we have five million people registered to vote? How many people came out to vote? People take the pvc card and you know what is it my vote does not count Is that not the general Apathetical statement that we receive from people you take for example in akiti state and in akiti state whereby the governor was elected with less than 200,000 votes You have a situation whereby in oceans state where the governor was elected less than with less than 400,000 votes And you look at the the vote as to not so as far as i'm concerned you get the type of government You deserve Just imagine If 60 percent or 70 percent of the citizen turn out to vote It's because they know quite a lot that you're not turn out to vote. That's why the little ones that turn out to vote They use the 15 error the rise the 5 000 to go and mobilize Dozen people so if we engage if Myself and my colleague on the other hand if we engage in citizen education In citizen mobilization They will collect the money like he said in gana. I will not vote for the country So we deserve the type of government we get because the ultimate power in democracy Lies with the citizen Beyond the legal status That the citizen right which is a citizen that is bestowed on you either by birth or by naturalization or what have you Which gives you the qualification the franchise to vote and to be voted for once you are 18 and above And there are some certain office that requires some certain age qualification The power lies with the citizen And as far as i'm concerned It is we blame ourselves for whatever type of government that we have because a lot of people on the day of the election We'll be reading this paper and you only blame yourself for the type of government you have You have lost your your right of complaint if you don't participate in the process And what we need to do for us to build this democracy is to increase the participation Not only increase the participation also increase the education Of the people because if the people are enlightening they are educated I'm sure we'll rescue back our society Brought from the carpet baggas that are that are that are taken over our country Okay, so let's also look at the fact that you know government since independence have made several effort targeted You know nation building and of course after the civil war as well You've also had cases where You know the Integration of the society you had the no victor no vanguished which gave rise to the three arrows And the establishment of the nyc's came amongst others. These are some efforts that government has made over time You know to build the nation, but let's look at How because over time a lot of people believe that nation building is elitist has just meant for The political class and those who actually call the shots How can citizens be involved in nation buildings? Let's take the issue of n-wise for example. It was done to build up a national integration And that people are posted outside of their home state to other parts of Nigeria, but I have The goal and the essence of n-wise has been defeated because the process is Manipulated here and there and people have the opportunity in the past You don't have right to change wherever you are posted to but under any guys now I served outside of Lagos and I'm sure you cybers out of your Domain state probably does one of the opportunity that Give us that opportunity to go outside of our offer of our of our environment of our locality As far as I'm concerned that was designed to build national unity However, we have seen the situation whereby that has also been a tool of promoting national disunity because I tell you this And I stand to be challenged. How often do you see people from the call not coming to the Courses out to commands to command self. I deal with coppers every now and then how often How often do you see that people from the far north are coming? They don't serve in the south They don't it's there because I in the public domain. So if you are really interested in nation building because The youths of the nation That's why it's got national youth. We said the youth is the future Now if you build an integration amongst the youths, they have an holistic view. They don't have a myopic view Of of their region of their tribe of their region of their ethnicity Then they have an holistic view that Nigeria is beyond Their state of origin. Now there is beyond their locality and there are other people And there are other places in Nigeria and there are other culture that we could learn from one another. So as far as I agree with you nation building is not meant for government. It is meant for the citizen Our policies that we have developed like the NYC, which are identified We have used the broader than to build unity we have used to cause this unity because if you have an average you've lost interest In the in the national youth service came unlike in the past when you talk to people that are 60s that are 70s That are 60s and above and they tell you their experiences of their youth service when they went They tell you with nostalgia some as a result of national youth service settled in the north where they went to Some settled in the south as a result of national youth took up employment in places They never imagined they could ever take employment for because they were received Politics has not divided us religion has not divided us as that divided us now Mr. De Bario, let's also bring you in you know with regards nation building The conversation really is you know to know what role Nigerian citizens can play Mr. Or Ginny Johnson here has spoken about the lackluster attitude that Nigerians have with regards the electoral process But in a general idea, what would you you know describe as the role that the citizens should have In building Nigeria if we're going to take this country forward We have elections coming in 2023 as sides the electoral process even What role should the Nigerian citizens in general play? First I refuse to blame the victims for the commission of the crime Nigerians because of the weaponization of poverty Nigerians have been subdued by the ruling cliques And so oftentimes people will say they don't want to go out to vote just believe that you know It is not enough to vote but your vote must count So and that is the responsibility of these situations that are vested with the authority and the powers to ensure that we have free elections in this country, you know Look at June 12, 1993 We had the free free election, but what what became of it the ruling clique Frustrated it and not an analogy. So would you believe the citizens for that? So most of the times when people vote, you know, that's later the later you will come in when people discover that their votes Do not count. Yes, of course Citizens have a responsibility to hold the I believe first of all that the citizens the primary responsibility of the citizen Is to ensure that you don't allow yourself to be misruled and then you need to push back You understand but there also that's a limit because there will be state authorities and apparatus that will be unleashed on you Ensure that you fall in line As a spirit of revolutionary history actually, I believe that the citizens must always rise up to ensure that they are not misruled let's go, uh, I want to Support is a position on the issue of NYC. For me, I believe that the NYC scheme has over uh, as a Overstate its usefulness is no longer as As it was for me. Personally, I would never allow any of my children to go and serve up not I will not allow Any of my children no matter what I would rather the would rather not serve than for them to go to the not serve because of the kind of Terrible things that are happening from before the book around insurgency, you know, there was time that you know, they will see Female couples in the you know a lot of things were happening to people up not when they would go and serve and he said that People from the corner to are not coming to the south to suffer Why should I send any of my children to go there and serve I've told Even the one that I have a great graduated. I ensure that it did not go So it did not go to this is where they are where their security will not be guaranteed, you know I will not send my children to we are to replace where they will serve and that you have to serve So we don't deviate, you know too far from the focus, you know So I I you know I I want us to you know really focus on what the role of the Nigerian citizen should be And that's why I also earlier mentioned besides the electoral process because that has of course been established If Nigerians do not vote then they shouldn't complain, you know So besides the electoral process what should be the role of the Nigerian citizen? In making Nigeria great again One of the one of the major And crucial rules that we must play now As well as the kind of crossroads that we are as a country now is not only that for people To vote but also must come fast for folks to be voted for, you know The other day I was I was at a forum and people who are coming out They were mentioning a all the people that have come out to say they want to run for president This one they say is corrupt. This one they say is incompetent. This one they say Does not have certificate. This one they say so the all the people the prominent foreigners They mentioned that I'm the condemned them one by one and I asked a question Who are we 14 for? Okay, assume me without considering that all these ones that you have said we have mentioned They are not they are not qualified to rule a job for one reason. They are for one package or another Are you running? He said he's not running. Okay. Who is running? Who is that credible Nigeria that is run that has come out now? He started mentioning some names, you know, and I said are those names have they come out to say they want to contest So the thing is that if Nigerians will have to pick, you know, there's something that France final call a cycle of certainty We'll have to pick from a cycle of certainty if the so-called credible honest and patriotic Nigerians do not come out To contest for elections and you say if you mentioned this one, no, he was caught up You see this one. This one is bad. This one is not patriotic We can't throw this one You can at least are the people who are coming out to say they want to consent Contest for the presidency and the governorship of this country. So have you even the people that claim to be to be credible Do not come out People who claim to be patriotic people who claim to be clean and they are incorrigible if they are sitting back And they are not coming out To to come a contest then you know you leave Nigeria with no choice because you cannot vote for somebody who does not contest If those of you sitting in the studio there and I here refuse to contest in an election And we condemn people come out to contest then we also lack The the right to condemn people because you have to vote for people who are coming out There are incredible people in this country. There are great individuals in this country There are a couple people in this country Who can rule this country and manage our diversity in a far better way than the way we have been through But where are they because of their elitist arrogance and because you have the the the live within A cocoon of comfort that we collapse in the country god forbid if the country collapse they refuse to come out Look, there are many of them. I don't want to mention names. There are people There are people that some of us have even approached to come out and contest You know one of the declos excuse that one of them gave He said people are governors now are in their 40s and these are that he in his 50s He cannot he should not be seen a contested for governorship And we believe that he is he was in the position to rescue the state to govern very well because he has to see them Many of the elites are absolutely, you know Sort of distanced from this from the from the from the social environment And they do not understand the fact that if they do not participate because he mentioned participation the other time If he does not participate if you believe you can do better Why are you not contesting we will continue to vote for these people these ruling cliques because I don't call them ruling class These ruling cliques who have been holding us All stage from independence to date if the good people refuse to come and the so-called good people refuse to come out and contest all right Okay, um, so Just to Agree with what he has said it's important that as a citizen you have a right to vote and to be voted for We need credit people to come if you don't provide yourself that opportunity that platform We can and we also need our citizen to join the political parties Everyone of us if we join the political parties. There are two major political parties Let's assume credible Nigerians go and occupy Dominate this party you rescue the party structure the party structure starts from the world from the local government That's where that these are the power centers So we need citizens to be members of these political parties when we are members of this political You can reform the political parties are the platform through which you recruit people in public governance You can't see there's no independent candidature now. There are parties Two major parties. We are calling on the citizen join this party register to be members of this party seek elective offices within this party just imagine if Six million legations are members You know in america the moment you get there you register as was as a democrat Republican or an independent now From from from from those data, you know, which party is stronger. So we need to have that in our party Probably we we need to legislate on that that as a Nigerian a certain age You must be a member of a political party. That's because the citizen needs to own the polity Beyond voting. You also need to present yourself for voting. Also, we also need to examine the conduct of public officials Why if we leave this to do are they going to clap for us for doing this job? I'm asking you Merci Now, why should I clap for a governor? We need to edit. Why should we clap for a governor for constructing a road? Have you seen the prime minister of beating commission in a road before? Have you seen the president of united states of america commission in a road before? Have you seen a mayor commission in a road? It is in Nigeria that people will throw parties extravagant party to commission a road and then they will have as should be and They will start clapping their hand to for the person that offered himself for service That said I would do this job and you are electing me to do this job So I will not take care of my clothes. I will not take care of the food I will eat I will not take care of the houses. I'm going to live in you are going to provide all of that for me In order for me to make life comfortable for you yet You see people clapping but jude johnson for the want of time because in no time where we're just going to wrap it up here and The question here is how can citizens be involved in nation building where their policies that would constantly You know want to divide us as a people for instance The rotational kind of government that we practice especially, you know during elections saying oh the power has to go to You know the north it has to come to the south is the turn for The north to produce a president and then you also want to look at some quota systems Especially in the educational sector and then even as much as we think that some of these policies are supposed to unite the people and also Ensure equality and so most times you find out that State of our region reflecting almost everything so you get to different parts of you know the country and then you are being asked Because of the quota system or some of these policies you're constantly being asked the state where you're from So how can you know citizens be involved in nation building where you have policies? Already or practices by government whether or not they are constitutionally recognized Just meant to you know further divide us as a people in Nigeria. You are recognized With three identities. We need to remove those identity and have one identity to be recognized as Nigeria In Nigeria, you are in the team of a local government An origin of a state and a citizen of Nigeria Those are the three identities we have An indigent of a local government An origin of the state that are your state of origin and then you have citizen of Nigeria You see that we place citizenship And the third pedestal we need to remove those two If you really want to move forward in this country for us to be first and foremost identified as a Nigerian We need to remove state of origin. I used to joke with a with a senior colleague that was born In the in the 60s in early 60s early 60s and I said, you know what citizen Before you are in Nigeria. You are in southern protectorate from southern protectorate You move to eastern region from eastern region. You move to mid eastern State from mid eastern state You move to cross river state from cross river state. You move to aqua bomb state. What's your identity? In your lifetime Nigeria has given you different types of identity across across across across board So we need to if we really want to build this nation, we go to Rwanda way. What is the Rwanda way? They remove the ethnic Coloration you don't identify yourself. You are U2 or Tutsi. You are Rwanda Do America identify themselves by states? Said I'm an American citizen. I'm a British citizen And I think that for us to really build this nation We must identify ourselves as a citizen of Nigeria, not as an origin of a state And if you take that to what you have said who believes in nutritional present We must remove this quota system and the rest of it rather than help us. It has further divided us And that's why the governor of Abia State could go to the president and say the turn of the southeast Who as the president we presidency come to I'm from the southwest as the presidency helped Ugun state the president of Nigeria was from Ugun state for eight years The vice president is from Ikena. He will spend eight years there as he helped Ugun state Presidency has gone to Karsina twice as he have Karsina state Presidency has gone to Biasa state as he have I don't care where the presidency comes from. So how then how then do we not expect you know Nation-building in the midst of all of those obstacles that we have is the involvement of the citizenry the participation The participation of the citizenry in the body we must own the body politic That's why I joined the political party vote in the primaries of the party vote in the main election Be interested in what happens to you ask questions. We cannot petition People know things and they are not interested. You can for example my house of rep member Went to the house of rep you only had One house before going to the house of rep now is in the house of rep he has 20 houses our petition We must have citizen must our petition these guys You know these we all know ourselves in our community So it's the right of citizen one of the responsibility of citizen is to petition There's a document I will share with you responsibility of citizen is to petition You can this guy owns one house Now is owning 10 houses. This guy used to drive one car is owning 10 cars now you petition in the past in the 60s in the 70s People report their neighbors to the police years or no very true And when they report their neighbors to so we must get back to that and that can only come also from the police Giving confidence back to the people the police doing their job and the judiciary doing their job because all of these are the rights Of the citizen once we protect the rights of the citizen the responsibility of the citizen I want to bring back mark adibayo Mr. Adibayo will will it be fair Will will this argument be justified if a citizen says The reason I don't care so much or I don't want to involve myself in you know Nigeria's affairs or in the voting process or in questioning You know excessive wealth of my leaders or you know my national assembly members and the likes The reason I don't want to bother myself You know as to whether a governor You know has used billions of naira to build a road that could have been built with 100 million naira It's really because Nigeria hasn't shown me that it loves me And so I cannot in that way bother myself with caring, you know about Nigeria Um, would that be a fair argument for a Nigerian citizen? Absolutely not. I think this is self-defeatist It is really aggressive thinking to make that that anybody will come to that conclusion You know the thing is that just like the bible says the kingdom of gospel rest fireless and if I let it take it by force It's the same thing with the police cook kingdom as how love was said, you know, you cannot sit back, you know the kind of the kind of Lethargy that you know if the kind of energy that Nigerians bring into issue of religion and ethnicity when we discuss it with Such vigor and If we showed so much interest in fact as little as 50 percent of it in the in the affairs of our country We will not have people rules ruling us. You understand me The number one responsibility of a citizen nation building is to hold your leaders accountable We're not doing that enough in this country. And it is also part of the elitist conspiracy That we are not increasing our people enough. You see, you know, it is easier now to populate a church than to populate a political party Because what happens is this, you know, you go to go campaign one of the things some people have joined politics and I run out of it Look at the label mother just came back in the judge's return to but he ran away after 2011 because of what he what he saw What really happens that when Nigerians are behaving like if because Episodes says maybe you go and run for presidency. The issue is that many good will People with good will with good art want to run for president But Nigerians also will demand money from you to vote for you and that is a bad attitude You understand, it's like if you have a prisoner Nigerians are behaving like prisoners Who somebody comes to say I want to bail you out and the prisoner is saying that I said to pay me I will not come out of this prison We must change that mentality and it is the responsibility of the society to ensure that you can pay Fossil furiously to ensure that people are politically educated enough to understand the fact that you cannot Sell your food. You cannot sell your conscience. You cannot sell your future You cannot sell your children because by doing that Wouldn't it be wouldn't it be easier to convince a Nigerian To do these things if that Nigerian believes that Nigeria is worth fighting for It is uh, it is not something that you can do in the gv We need to really It will take a lot of time a lot of energy and commitment and devotion and dedication to be able to bring Nigerians to begin to trust in Nigeria a lot of people have lost trust They have lost belief in that they have lost faith in Nigeria and we need to rebuild that faith You understand, especially in the last six or so years. We are you know, we have never been this divided As in we have likely returned to pre-66 era of absolute distrust among ourselves We need to really build trust as whoever is going to become Nigeria's next president The number one assignment that he has to do is to reunite this country and to ensure that we become colorblind to the usual ethnicity and religion so that we can build this country together This is a great country that God has been through on us I think all of us must come together in one united committed and dedicated patriotic endeavor to ensure that this country Is put back on the uh, on the road to greatness. We are a great Not sure of the likelihood of that Julie Johnson, if you can in one minute, please also could respond to my question So the mercy jumps in Would it be fair for Nigeria to have that argument that Nigeria has not shown me any love hasn't shown me any Care and so I would not bother myself. I wouldn't kill myself I wouldn't go out to question any government because you know, the government will sponsor 500 and anti Anti-protest as against me random things like that. I don't have that argument Yeah, we could have that argument But what we should call for is a structure a structure that gives power back to the people And what of what the present political class the ruling class has done is to have systematic annihilation of the grassroot Destruction of the local government Now where power comes from now we are now operating if you dualistic democracy Where by somebody will sit either in a budja or will sit somewhere Nikoi and would dictate who becomes the local government chairman Who becomes the ass of assembly member who becomes the ass of rep members and everybody would differ Back to this lord and master whereas power used to come from the base If you until we have that structure the niger who still is Free frustrated as their fame until the power comes from the base. There's nothing that grows from the top power in democracy I was having a short conversation with one young one. I said in these are local government If they allow us to decide and to dictate what happens and look we know ourselves We know who can rule and who should be a local government and local government can be a mood Like you have like a city you have united state of america, but I said, you know what? They will not allow that to thrive Because the feudal lot do not want democracy and feudal lot want servants They don't want citizen and that's the that situation we have found ourselves. Okay, so I know that you know, we're probably talked about The kind of leaders we have leaders that we deserve But there's also other arguments that say that You know the kind of leaders we have is a reflection of the people that we are so if you have corrupt leaders Therefore is a reflection that the people are corrupt and if you have leaders that are you know divided Towards uh, ethnic differences. They therefore shows that uh, we're also that those kind of persons so because We we throw up the kind of leaders that we have do you agree with this postulation that Because we have corrupt leaders. We're also corrupt peasants. All right, so hold on That's a you know, brilliant question. I think both guests would have to respond to that but we need to get updates on the Legosi by the expressway Accident multiple accidents that occurred very in the early hours of this morning Would of course share with you some pictures There are reports that people are scooping petrol From one of the tankers that of course was involved in the accident And so we'll quickly get to share some of those pictures with you this morning On the breakfast once again, of course, it's from the autedala breach accident and Reports reaching us say that citizens are taking advantage of the situation and scooping Petro from one of the tankers that was involved in the accident Those are the latest updates on that. Of course, we would continue to follow up and share with you every goodness Well, you know, there you have it Lander and citizen taking what he believes is rightfully his Uh And of course, uh, we have one of our camera men present, uh, mr. Kufrey. Can you hear us clearly? All right, so quickly share with us what uh seems to be going on there We see someone with a small keg and a little basin on his head What's the current situation over there? Um If I hear you clearly the current situation going on now is that um Young men are serving soon. Well, you see them collecting fuel from the tanker that uh turned upside down And the there's no security agents over there. Nobody is there The accidents are happening I think everybody having evaporated and The vehicles are left there. So you see guys Trying to break into it Take whatever they see you see some of them carrying tires Jack and whatever And you see them Carrying fuel I think they're fetching water which is very very dangerous It is very very dangerous and the sun is coming out at this at this time. There can be explosion at any time Yeah, I hope you are It's gonna say I hope you are at a safe distance Yeah, I was saying I hope you are at a safe distance and can you also confirm if there's any security agent or um last summer official there No security agent available for now Is any any official of a legal state emergency management agency? No, I see nobody around for now So I have to put a call across to them on the emergency line And his response was given to me immediately and they confirmed everything. So they said they are going to send A response team immediately after the call So I'm still waiting to see What time they will arrive All right, but I'm talking to you now. I'm not I'm not close to that please because I was certain That if I try to bring out my equipment, I will be stopped They showed me like two at night like if I try it, they would deal with me deal with my family So so I have to use that Come to be tested around talking to you now. I mean the autodollar For security reasons. All right That's our camera man. Remember to stay safe and stay at a safe distance And would of course be connecting with you as quickly as possible Once again, thank you very much I'm sorry. I didn't get to come again. We will reconnect with you. We'll be speaking with you again soon Thank you very much for what you've shared with us and remember to stay safe Okay, okay. Thank you very much So it brings us back to the question now Let's say that the kind of leaders we have is a reflection of who we are a corrupt society would always throw up corrupt leaders And then what are leaders due to our petroleum products? What did they do to the resources of our country? When you see when citizens see you report your report of people taking public fund willingly And that's why everybody believes that he has a right to it. He's put bendalism mentality that characterized and it's unfortunate that This is 838 in the morning. This is the app very close to the seat of government in Lagos state And you have not seen an emergency response to that effect and that even the life of Someone going about giving us an accurate report was threatened Knives were knives were brought out And his family and everyone was straight and yet you have the emergency response and then Funds are voted for this For La Sema for all this type of agency for Fema and the rest of it And then we have not seen just it's happening in the art of Lagos It's not happening anywhere. You know about this time last year Something happened Abuli would do or what is he called along Badagri where we had that explosion That the governor took pictures to the president in Abuja. Hopefully we take another picture to the president Consonant as this comes down to where we started from what's the value of an average and avid life you see It's unfortunate that in 1999 when this democratic experience started a lot of people Took it backstage because they didn't have any confidence in this democratic experience because of the surface that the June 12th annulment Give give to a lot of a lot of Nigerian concerning that but we don't have to give up We just have to engage in this process if you want to move this nation forward And that's what i'm saying that everyone that is watching every Nigerian once you are 18 years and above Please join a political party Let's get a voters card Get it join a political party. So the challenge with joining a political party miss adibai You're coming in also with the same question very soon But the problem with joining the political parties the Nigerian political parties do not have ideologies No, Nigerian wants to get stuck to a political party that suddenly has leadership that he doesn't agree with But you already have that membership and so if you have political parties that had actual ideologies That you truly believe in and you know those ideologies will not change in the next 10 15 20 years Then you can encourage an andrian to join a political party. So I would rather, you know, yes join a political party But most importantly is to get registered to vote have a voters card get involved in in the electoral process As a nigerian as long as you're 18. There's no excuse why you should not You know get involved in the electoral process And then apart from the fact that you know We're asking that people should get in the electoral process because we constantly see The issue of how people constantly sell their vote for the fact that yes You know We need to get monies and vote for and so you find that that whoever has who pays higher You know gets the vote and all of that and then we also want to say that You know, it's a function of poverty So the people are hungry the people are poor and then whatever it is that they can get at the time You know is what they can get and they didn't do care about all of that But you know, um, I just think that it goes beyond all of that. We need, you know, constant Education voter education sensitization citizenship education, you know to get to the points that we actually Really really deserve because we can't continue like this. I'm also thinking that 2023 will come We have not learned anything from 2015 2019 and we're going to probably repeat the same thing we did You know in this different, you know, this election years that I've actually mentioned And it would still be the same thing. So we keep going in that particular cycle. All right, so let's uh, let's also Mr. Debaio, I know you're eager to jump in but we also want to quickly do something We want to try the legal state emergency response numbers seven six seven And see if we can get to speak with them with regards the incident at Oterola Bridge this morning. I think our controllers will do that and as we see if we can quickly dial And have that conversation with them this morning. Okay Good morning Okay. Well, it says that the call was dropped. So we're going to try and redial And see if we can speak with them this morning and give them information on what's going on there And you also get to find out, um, you know, how soon, you know before the officials get there Good morning Good morning Good morning. What's your majesty? Good morning. Uh, we're calling with regards, uh, an incident at Oterola Bridge. We have reports that they are people Can you hear me clearly? Okay, well, we're gonna have to struggle to get information to you I'm calling with regards the challenge at the accident on Oterola Bridge. Did you hear that? Okay, so can you quickly share with us what's the latest on the Oterola Bridge incident We have reports that there are people scoping petrol from one of the vehicles involved in the accident As a So I would suggest I thought he said to from that place. I I I just want to get it clearly because what I'm seeing I could hear it from here And which is disturbing me Let me know Yes, I did. Can you hear me? I can hear you. Great. So I am calling with regards the accident on the Oterola Bridge. Did you hear that? I can hear you. What I'm gonna say, okay, let me go straight after. This line you call It's um, it goes from one to another plan We just have to get information and escalate it Okay to the Line the last impulse and allow you who are here at the of that Oterola Bridge Okay, so I would suggest you if you can have the PRO number of the last timer and call the PRO so that we keep it before information, sir Okay. Well, we don't need to speak with the PRO. There's a there's a current emergency with people scoping petrol From one of the vehicles involved in the accident. I don't need to speak with the PRO to to share that information That's what I'm calling you. So what would what should be your response to that? And why can you confirm if there any of your staff present at the accident scene? Um, I would say why you If you don't mind, I can keep you on note so that uh, I can call the supervisor All right, uh, thank you very much. We will reconnect with you or we'll call back We're gonna keep following up the incident and we'll call back mr Mark Adebayo kindly go ahead Thank you Before I answer your question, I think that's the problem with the Oterola Bridge Almost every year at minimum of five accidents will happen in that place And I think I was asking an engineer what's the problem? I think that's the structural issue there And I think something has to be done and urgently to you know We have it too. It's one accident too too too many in that place that same spot many lives have been lost Many properties have been destroyed or something has to be done We cannot wait until the next accident before the government. We know that that's the solution about that place Something definitely is wrong with that place. So, um On the All this substantive issue. I am I'm trying to remember What the question was, you know with regards leaders being from the same crowd of people that you know We're speaking about so if we have the leaders continue We're picking the leaders from a pool of Nigerians. Does that necessarily mean that Nigerians themselves are a challenge or a problem? Because the leaders aren't coming from other countries. They're coming from Nigeria from Nigeria itself Exactly. First of all, I want to disagree with my sister who has said that maybe we have corrupt leaders because we Nigerians are corrupt No, no, no, that is a that is a negative generalization It is not it is not we are all of us are victims of bad leadership in this country I mean because we are all bad the The issue is that one of the challenges we have been having is that the good people that the that the people who can handle this country You know, do not show sufficient interest in the governance of this country. Let me give you an instance in 1999 after we have bad two with the military and we said the bad military parking This is society decided to To stay back people like bec or people like ghanifah or emitpula or fenfalan or anko You know at a meeting the legal said, okay, we have done our bit We should not participate in the in the political process. And then we allowed Also all manner of people who you can call political miscreants came in and took over took over the space now We are struggling to to after fighting after some of us. This is the bullet wound in my hand, you know under Jibo bridge I've got this one for under Jibo. So after we have done all that converted the military many of people that men who went to jail and immediately When the democratization process began all the civil society Activists most most most of them, you know, we drew from the political process. It's only that people like, you know, who's the Avikui Amiz and a few of people who are in nadeco and cool We've had very few of them participated in the in the political process and that is because Of a totem is judgment of the situation I will see how good people in this country I keep saying we see how committed people in this country who are sitting at the at the back bench Are not participating in the political process and therefore not giving Nigerians You know the capacity the the choice to make good choice Electoral choices you you said the political parties do not have choices. I do not have ideologies No, I disagree with you. We have not studied political parties of Nigeria to know that some of the poor party for instance You know as a social we're using as this ideology. I know of And other political parties are for ideology. Okay, assuming we don't consider that parties do not have ideology They have manifestos. They have manifestos and If they have manifestos, you must be able to agree with one or a set of manifestos or not So take that as your ideology if you have if you know the objectives of a political party it suffices It suffices for you to know that where you belong where you can be the manifestos of this party and the rest of that Everything Nigeria like he said 18 years and more must aspire to join a political party of their choice That is why we just agree With the premise of limiting the number of political parties in this country So that citizens can have the right to pick from what we are ever They want to you want to pick up we are the free configure that can give expression to their political choices And it's very important for citizens to like break the country. We should not expect united nations You know like break Especially ufo's to come and help us. We are Nigerians. We are the citizens of this country We must participate in the political processes Both as contenters and as electorate to ensure that we meet a country of our dream We bring a country of our vision It is not enough to condemn a or b is corrupt is competent It doesn't have certificate is too old is this and that what are you doing? Are you contesting and if we are not contesting which we vote for We are the citizens must begin to come together now To to seek for competent people in this country and put pressure on them to come around To come around I keep wanting to know why I'm trying to avoid mentioning is what I cannot understand why somebody like for like the olah somebody like professor additional of the Of the african bank and all these people are not coming into the political play to participate in the political process you know Some of them came in and they saw the maybe the road around the way. No, you don't run away You you stay in there and you clean the road and then you you make you make a change does not come easily You know we need to create we have to have a evolutionary mindset Don't say you know somebody will say because they will send talks after me because they will find me there Yeah, they invite you you they invite you that is it is not you need the political anywhere in the world Anywhere in the world that is why talks and this can take over political processes when the good people withdraw because they are afraid of No, do not be afraid of outlet You go in there. You are bringing negative energy. You counter that with positive energy and take over the political processes So you don't run away from them. Don't say because then you don't have money The kind of money they have we go in let us come together Mobilize the people and go and take over the political party so that you can take the structures of this country And let us save this country. You can see back these people do not the only clique will not have the interest To make you save and secure and prosperous in your country. It is your responsibility It is my responsibility for us to take over our the destiny of this country We cannot sit back and blame the blame blame every time You blame them from today to tomorrow It is the destiny of me and my children and you and your children that is at stake and we must not Leave it. There is a Yoruba saying that says that you do not leave The the the dead mother of a bad man to him to bury because if you leave it to him It's going to be a problem to the society because you can decide to cook it and eat it You can decide to leave it on buried so you we need to rescue this country and it is my responsibility It is your responsibility that studio to participate in the political process and ensure that we give Nigeria We make Nigeria the place that we want to be we should stop running away abroad Okay, so um, you know in all of this because at the end of the day We're looking at a process where we're contributing a different quota to ensure that you know We have a society that we want and it's always very easy for us to make reference to some of these countries And these countries were not created by spirit human beings actually, you know Made these countries that we constantly make reference to and not that they are perfect entirely because there's no perfect system But of course you get to a point where the basic things and you know certain things are taken care of So let's look at some of the laws. For instance, there are little things In the system when you say there's a lot of social contract There's an agreement government you would provide x yz for the people and in turn the people would do x yz Respect the laws pay taxes and all of that So um for as things as respecting the traffic light or paying traffic laws or respecting, you know, the traffic lights paying taxes Just showing respect to the national anthem when it's been, um, you know, you hear the national anthem And those little roles and responsibility that citizens are supposed to You know respect or part of their quota that's you find out that that doesn't happen You know most of the time in our politics. I'm not saying a lot of people don't respect the laws So could it most fault is it at this point in time? Because I would all I still I'm still of the opinion that We're where we are today because of the kind of people that we are Tomorrow you become a senator and there's some kind of you know threats and patterns and behavior that you have Inculcated you have already started, you know in your latest way of control where you control you're already Meddling with funds you're already diverting funds wherever it is that you're in charge of and then you would take it You know to the to the senate or wherever it is that you are So but who do we now put the blame on the fact that people do not do the need for you find out that people Dispose things indiscriminately. These are some of the behaviors that will contribute to developing our society So whose responsibility is it? Is it the responsibility of government? Or is it the responsibility of the people who or is it that the people do not know that they should behave in a certain way It's a joint responsibility And for us preferring solution to this problem is very simple one We need to legislate on the number of parties we are we're able to have the experience of june 12 because the choice Was limited to two Anything that is modern to becomes a problem of choice see early before you live and death Is it that you choose god or the devil you have two eyes you have two not So those that put this democratic process in place knew what they were doing when they came up with the multi-party system Now it's to further cause division. So we need to legislate on that Parties at the national level if you don't have membership at the national assembly After one electoral cycle is evidently clear that we have always had two parties in 1999 it was It was pdp and app with ad merge with app And we have had that cycle on and on and on and I think we need to do that Once we do that then we can Nigerians can go and register with this party We hone the body politic we control the system after a while we take control of the political of the political system It says something about a patriotism. I teach you such methodology in media and communication for example I tell people and you can't carry out research except you operationalize sometimes you turn concept into construct When someone comes on tv and said, you know what you're not patriotic What are the indices of you that you have used to measure patriotism? So patriotism could be measured in terms of recitation of national anthem obedience of traffic road and payment Of taxes as that when do you now if you do all of that three issues that you have high level of patriotism If you do two issues low level Average level of patriotism if you do one issues low level of patriotism if you do nothing issues You have no patriotism now if you use that as a yastic do our pollution pay taxes Do they reside in national? Do they reside in national anthem they only recite half of the national anthem You know the second stanza of the national anthem time will not permit me. I'll recite it for you Which is an indictment. Oh god of creation Direct our noble course do we have a course in this nation guide our leaders right? That's a general guide our leaders right App our youth the truth guide our leaders are because they always do the wrong thing They were saying wrong priorities App our youth the truth to know you will know the truth and the truth we said to you in love and honesty to grow Do we love one another? And living just and true Are we just in this nation where somebody we score two we get admission and somebody we score 190 and we will not get admission To build a nation where we Peace and justice so if you look at the fundamental principle underlying in this nation Do we live by those values until we oppose those values we never have a nation And if we really want to have people to own the body politic We must legislate on the number of political parties and ask people to join if I join in my local government There's no way one person we sit in body loan or we sit in a budja or we sit in kafa and cha And we dictate for us. That's why we are able to have June 12 because we use option a4 You have to go back to your basis. It starts from where option a4 is you start from your ward That's the first level. That's where you let cancel us Bodger Johnson, I'm sorry to cut in here I'm really sorry You have mentioned the point which I think is very valid that we need to uphold some of these values Whether or not we join political parties If we don't uphold these values, it becomes nonsense because at the end of the day the police break the law Police drive against traffic. They don't drive against people People look at the leadership. Do you see the leadership of other countries? But the leadership come from the society. No, you see that they don't come from a different space We didn't we didn't take them from a different side. We would have to wrap up here Uh jiddy johnson Mark adibayo It's a pleasure to thank you both. It was a very interesting discussion Thank you for always bringing people interest Topics, thank you. I'm waiting for you to declare your presidency of governorship Thank you very much. I think I should go for the governor of Lagos state now to be better. Let's start 30 begins at 2 So All right, sir, we give we give it a touch and we call for more consultation Mark adibayo, thank you very much It's a pleasure to give you Stop him by Thank you very much and to our viewers. Thank you for staying with us all through if you missed out remember where it's catch up It's simply a plus tv africa on all social media platforms including youtube. I am osaugi And I am masie boku. Do you have yourself a wonderful 2022?