 We are glad to know that you're still there, still the run-up and we did promise you that we're going to bring you Mr. Achika Chude who will be telling us about a stick holder summit that is being or has been held in Abuja It ended yesterday and we want to have some takeouts from that summit Mr. Chude welcome to the run-up this Today Okay, just tell us about let's begin with that tell us about what the the stick holder summit was about So that we get a feel of it and then know how to proceed from there Well, I think essentially it's about continuous engagement with the polity it's about you know civil society's contribution to the electoral process in this country and to the proposal for the proposal of a good governance and Of course, you know that civil society has been heavily involved in the democratic process from 1999 to date And they have invested so much time energy effort In trying to ensure that we put in place processes that will make elections more or less seamless and the credible free and fair and accountable and so the Stakeholder has met it put together by the Nigeria civil society a situation of course with some a major contribution by development partners Was just that to ensure that we you know Push, you know the frontiers and I will continue, you know to work I've been able to ensure, you know better pros, you know electoral process and if you look at the main people who participated in terms of the invited guests Apart from members of civil society showroom that came from all over the country, you know And the friends of station different civil society organizations The man in the eye of the storm That is the man with the most contentious Almost difficult job today in Nigeria Beyond the job of the president and governors. That is the next chairman himself was there Then we had a representative of the inspector general police and then the Representative of intrapati advisory council ipak. So you have political parties Who are primary normally who are stakeholders in the electoral process? You have security Of course, you know that the Nigerian secure police is the lead security agency in elections in the country Others are just there to give a helping hand to support them And then of course you have the inec Itself that is a responsible for conducting the election. So the It was a good representation and then the essence was to look at what has happened You know what is happening and what is likely going to happen regards to the election in 2023 And then look at the possible gray areas If any and to give advice to the inec chairman And so that some of these things that are changeable can be changed And some of these I mean the proposals can be reflected In the way you know election is being conducted. I think I think as always acknowledge the role of civil society In helping them to navigate the murky waters of Nigerian politics, especially during the electoral period You know, so I think the inec chairman was grateful For the opportunity to come before the people and to also Give I am adherence an idea of what I think and what is doing and what it is going to do In the weeks and the months to come So to ensure a proper in the electoral process Okay, they you just mentioned what was what is and what is likely to come And the capacity of the cso's to advise inec and all that so what did you take from what was And what have you taken from what is in order for you to advise inec About what is likely to come. What are the strongest points that you have taken from the panel president? What was in this instance is the fact is the feeling that You know that progress has been made in our electoral process from 1990 date I mean, especially we regards to the rules and activities of inec And so I think there was that general acceptance that we have made some progress Of course, there are so many, you know, there are some areas that still need to be fined tuned But there is a general feeling that Instead of a feeling of despair and despondency There's a feeling of hope You know that we have not done too badly that is in terms of the electoral empire And the response of the Nigerian citizens and civil society organizations But I'm not exactly sure that that's feeling of optimism You know You know that we can also attribute that feeling of optimism Also to the behavior and performances of the political class I still maintain that the weakest link in Nigeria's, you know, political evolution is the political class They have not shown any serious sense of responsibility They have they have their own patriotic and they are not nationalistic in by any stretch of the imagination And we look for any possibility You know any loophole that they can find to undermine the electoral process for their own gain You know, so it's a very selfish You know and the corrupt political class and that is why the country is where it is So we have inec on one hand that is trying to do well You know, we have the civil society organizations that are also trying to push inec To the part of a credible elections Then we have the politicians that are trying to undermine inec And the efforts of civil society organizations over the years, you know, so that is I think where we are now then but obviously we The other things we are looking at, you know, I don't know whether to preempt you but obviously in terms of where we are The inec chairman also had some worries about the one of the two major worries that he talked about One he said the issue of security He said that security still remains to constitutes a problem a worrying, you know, development for Inec Our regards to elections in the country and just I felt that it is due to the responsibility of everybody You know the security forces civil society organizations the media and Nigerians in general You know to ensure that we can have A a a more conducive environment for the conduct of elections in the country That is his first worry. I think the second one also had to do with His worry over the the issue of campaign financing in clear violation of You know, electoral law Of obviously there are caps that have been, you know, that have become part of the law in terms of capping the You know monies that go into campaigns and other political activities And obviously unfortunately that has been observed in the bridge Because you now see stupendous obscene amounts of money being spent by candidates across both political parties And that is something that is worrisome to inec and then the inec chairman You know says that part of the solution would be to synergize more with civil society organizations And there are other groups that are very good at tracking campaign financing And so that, you know, I work and monitor The extent of compliance or no compliance with the law on campaign financing Then he also talked about The pvc, no, no, of course the pvc collection. You have to know the fact that they were delays about that He was giving assurances that very soon that the inec will reach out to Nigerians To give them details and information about the processes for the collection of Cards, you know, you know by voters Then then the last one, I think if I remember correctly, he was also talking about the means of identification for party agents And there was no happy about a situation where party agents are not compliant with the directive by inec We regards to, you know, identification. So he says that inec is preparing You know, very specialized cards, you know, that'll make it difficult for political parties to solve that, you know, or circumvent the process of identification And you know, sometimes they they they also change Agents, you know, midway while the electoral, you know process is on. So he's hoping for the cooperation I found out called on the ipak representative You know to Look in that direction and the man did say Did say that That they have had issues with them or the political parties that many of them have not Been in compliance, but that they will keep on doing their best to ensure that the right thing is don't wear regards to identification You know at the, you know pulling units, though He also said that is the ipak man that the two major political parties the pdp and and apc Uh, uh, you know a corporate when it comes to issues of attending meetings of a, you know, by the inter, you know party interparty You know Organization that is by the parties belonging to the ipak that they have shown some level of arrogance and disdain You know for other political parties because perhaps they feel that That they are Far bigger do not need any kind of advice from the smaller political parties Let me let me come in here. You've mentioned how You know how you've mentioned a lot of things about the collection of the PVC's and all because you can feel the anxiety in the air with nigerians Can you hear me now? Can you hear me mr. Trude? Okay Can you hear us now? I don't know why he can't hear Can you hear us now? Okay, please speak up. Let's see. All right. Can you hear me? Can you hear me now? Okay, I think uh, there's a bit of a complication really connection Well, you can hear frankly at least right Okay, mr. Trude is missing something You know when he mentioned stuff about collection of the PVC's and all you know because you can feel the anxiety that people are Uh at that point where they don't want to miss the opportunity Especially people who are really interested, you know in participating fully in the f**k coming elections But then I wanted to ask him the INEC has been very bold, you know When they say things about the measures they've put out about buying, you know, how to curb it I wanted to know, you know during the summit if this was mentioned And if there was anything different that was said about it And you know what the measures would be because If we're going to say the truth, you know as well the engines that we are you will see that you would know that vote buying comes In different ways and measures. Yeah, even the way that you least Expect it. I mean these people are very smart about it I would really, you know have wanted to hear if you ask me I think even vote buying has begun, but in a subtle way like you said Ways that people will not even suspect this vote buying has so it would have really been lovely if he had Lent his voice there telling us if INEC chairman meet pronouncements How they are going to deal with these people and the rest of the thing or prevent it at least before it gets to that point Well prevention would be difficult I think when he was mentioning it he mentioned it particularly that on the day of election So maybe before the election nothing much would be done. I think I think I think today's is back. Can you hear us now? Okay, so before we had that interruption I was going to ask you about You know how that the INEC has you know promised to roll out measures to tackle vote buying at the polling units on election day in 2023 and you know can INEC track the spending of politicians during the campaign period possibility of INEC, you know to do something the issue of vote buying. I think if it was also one of the things that INEC chairman talked about when he was talking about campaign financing I forgot to also mention You know that aspect he was exceedingly very worried about that but don't also forget that you know INEC is and that's why the INEC chairman also talked about the special Offensives commission that will be set up to try Electoral related offices and he was really looking forward to that because he talked about the Boding that INEC has you know has to be a Assuming the responsibilities and there was was happy that it was on And there was hoping there to be passed soon by the national assembly And so that a different body will be solely responsible for you know actions that are during the electoral process that are compatible with electoral law and and so So obviously that's why the police were there. That's why they were also invited for the event yesterday INEC is limited in its Uh, you whatever I You know you can do in terms of stopping a vote vote buy Yes, I mean INEC is not an arresting agency. It is not the prosecuting agency That is the responsibility of the security forces. You have the DSS. You have the police and other security agencies So when they see a contravention of the electoral act, especially we regards to put Put buying in this instance And then they have a duty to respond and to arrest people that are engaging in them I mean in that act and I think it was put straight to the INEC By by by the convener of a Psycho-scientific situation which was put straight that question Observation was put straight to the police Where she also indicated that that sometimes when this put buying is goes on openly You know before I mean in the presence of the police officers or security forces and they do nothing about it And then the issue of those that have been arrested in past elections, you know And she asked what has happened to those people. So It is something obviously INEC has indicated that they want to try to resolve But it is not the resolution of the issue of vote buying goes far deeper And that are most involved in the segments of the Nigerian society including the security, the people themselves, the political parties All of them must come together to say look, this is a very shameful Uh, you know situation and that we need to put a stop to it Uh, I don't know this did a question Ever arise in the in the course of this I don't know because you're talking security now I don't know by way of definition Maybe I would have asked whether vote buying is a security issue that only the police has to do but What INEC is advocating for a different body to be in charge of this thing Is it not just going to be a kind of duplication of These things like some people till now in Nigeria cannot understand why there will be EFCC and ICPC at the same time What they do differently that made them two bodies Why not just expand INEC and give it more Departments that can take care of various needs of the commission instead of Getting an entirely different body Well, well, well the issue of EFCC and ICPC is a different discussion of that Potentially the issue of the EFCC or commission is not an advocacy of INEC It has never been If you remember if you go back to the past under the PDP Dispensation When later Umar Musayara came to power as a president of Nigeria He had knowledge that the election that brought him to power was not exactly stellar You know and that he left much to be desired and he was going to do something about electoral reform He set up the wise commission And that came up and recommended the breakup of INEC some of the you know to have other You know activities that have been performed by INEC to have them be performed by other Other you know organizations Obviously he was taking a cue from what is happening in other parts of the world, especially Africa, South Africa Uh, you know where the electoral commission is not as potent as that of INEC and it has not just been It was not and and and that recommendation by the wise panel was as a result of advocacy by the Nigerian people civil society organizations, you know by the media uh, you know to To relieve INEC Of any kind of burden that INEC has had to bear. So I do not think it's a duplication In any sort I think that that is a right thing to do I let INEC face The responsibility of conducting elections so that where INEC defaults would be ready to call them out and to take to To hold them accountable For failures of the electoral process All right, just very recently there's been a court order that came up, you know asking INEC to resume continuous voter registration Uh, until 90 days to the election. How do you react to this? You know court order and what do you have to see about it? Yeah, well, I don't know where the court order came from but obviously there are two contending orders One is reflects what you just said now that asked INEC to continue with the review of a voter's You know register while the other one is the exact opposite that the court declined Are to to ask uh, you know for INEC Are to continue with the voters registration from that this this For the statement of the court, he says that look it's even You know too late because INEC doesn't even have the time anymore to do that. So let's just say that it's a contentious Court ruling and nobody knows exactly what the ruling of the court is since both of the rulings that The media has carried or you know Is that the metrically opposed to one another? But obviously even if it's a genuine ruling by the court It is something that will be applicable not now, but perhaps in future elections So I make we have to take note But first of all, you need to identify You know, you need to confirm the genuine the genuineness of the ruling and then know which of these two You know, it's actually the ruling if it is one that favors And the continuation of a registration exercise to 19 days before the You know a conduct of election Then obviously it's not something that will happen now because we are already there You know, we're already there. So there is nothing to be gained by By that a court ruling by INEC trying to do anything in that direction Well, um, there could have been so many to Questions to ask you but just like in 30 seconds if you may because the time is off From the discussions you had in Abuja from everything INEC said and the civil societies also said and suggestions you brought What is your projection for 2023? How confident are you of the process leading up to 2023 and the outcome thereafter? Well, well the the part of the election in 2023 is true with some difficulty so obviously and the difficulties stemming from the actions or inactions of The political elites that I have already described as irresponsible and uncommitted So they are the ones that try to undermine the process of political gain And so our duty our responsibility not just civil society. You people you guys they have a responsibility to And that is to also monitor the situation and to call out Iran politicians, you know, and their misbehavior And we need to be watchful We need to be very very watchful because 2023 is a very pivotal year And we just also need to get it right and hope that the right choice is made by the Nigerian people So that we can begin to move away from the country where all virtually all the citizens start running their way to one That prosperous and some of us will be proud of Okay, Mr. Shude, it's been an honor having you on the show today. I would like to thank you so much for joining us Thank you, you're welcome Okay Every time we talk to people it comes back to the press as well Something must most like Nigerians will say most gommas Don't gong the press But I think yeah While they are right that we have a humongous duty to the general public Everybody should also know that Not everybody listens to radio or watches television and all that so whatever corner you find yourself advocacy should be carried out And so so that we don't tread blames The media has to do this political parties have to do this iron egg has to do this and all that We have to know that It's a Nigerian project and the Nigerian project is our project If you want it, even if you run away from this Country you will still have relations that once in a while you will talk to and you want them to be all right And you call home I wouldn't want to see it as throwing blames because when you look at it if really truly in your words It is an Nigerian project then it means everybody has a role to play and I feel like if everybody plays their role Then things would you know literally Work out properly and then if you want to say that not everybody listens to the radio or watches tv There is somebody whose responsibility is to give orientation To you know, uh, make sure that that the right amount of publicity that is required Is given and it is that person's responsibility to bring these informations to radio to tv and take it to And every other places that it is required. I'm not calling anybody's name, but you know yourselves and I feel like Um, there hasn't been enough orientation going on, you know for you know in the build up to the 2023 general elections So I am hoping that one day we'll get to have a conversation with the noa guys And they probably tell us what they're doing towards the 2023 because to me They seem very quiet and you see that is also even a problem For them to have to tell us before we know Because they should have been doing things that before now You don't need to ask Maybe you should be asking what what can we also do to help you in what you're doing? Or what else do you intend to do that? We've not seen actually This is a period where there supposed to be very very vocal and very loud screaming at the top of your lungs There was a time I was asking just for fun I asked a few a few people if they know who is heading the national orientation agency right now And they didn't know do people know that there is So I don't even know that that kind of an agency exists and I'm sure they get budgetary allocation each year So what happens to like you said responsibilities that are given to you? Well Also, like you said my people say The rats sleep Without locking their door because that's so many It's sweeter when I say it in my language though A begom That is because the rats are so many they sleep without locking their door everyone will say okay you you have to lock the door Okay, I'm expecting the other person to lock the door. Nobody takes responsibility So if we become the rats Then the things that need to be done would not be done because we're waiting for the the next person to do it So in your small corner, you can contribute something take responsibility Well, let's take a break and return when we return we'll be talking the the bill the Education bank bill that has just been passed by the national assembly. It has not been accepted to but Something has been done regarding that. What do you feel about it? Theophilus akatuba will be joining us shortly. Stay with us