 April 27th is an important day for South Africa. It marks the day when elections were held after the fall of apartheid, the first elections after the fall of the white supremacist regime. In 1994, when these elections were held, people were hopeful of not only getting political participation for the black majority, but also social and economic rights, a life of dignity, which they had been denied for so long. But 29 years later, this does not really seem to be the case. Many of these hopes have not been realized. And one of the organizations which has most consistently highlighted this failure is Abhalali Basse Majandolo, the shack dwellers movement of South Africa. Abhalali is a movement which has raised the issue of land, which has raised the issue of rights, which has raised the issue of homelessness, of dignity for people in South Africa and has suffered a lot. Its leaders haven't been killed and arrested. Abhalali Basse Majandolo chooses to mark Un Freedom Day. Why do they do so and what is the situation in South Africa today? We are joined by Abhalali's president Sibu Zikode. So thank you so much for joining us. I wanted to start out with the concept of Un Freedom Day itself. It's a very strong statement. It's a strong statement against some of the what seem to be very banal, official celebrations of freedom, all this rhetoric about freedom. Whereas, as you pointed out, as you and the organization have pointed out time and again, the reality on the ground is very different. And from our understanding, what Abhalali seems to be doing is saying that there is a very different definition of freedom we need to be talking about of dignity, of self-sufficiency. So could you maybe take us a bit more into depth about Un Freedom Day and what freedom means to you? Greetings to all the viewers. This is a very important discussion and it's a very important day. Basically, these two days, upcoming two days, will be marking the 29 years of our voting system for a democratic government in South Africa, meaning that we had voted politicians for the first time 29 years ago. So this would be like 29 years exactly, what people called freedom. So basically, it would be an insult and we would be lying to ourselves when we call this day a freedom day. Yes, we must acknowledge, we have deep respect for those who came before us, for those who fought for what we're still fighting for, because it would be unfair if any of the comrades who came before us, who actually died, who put their life so that South Africans can be free. If they were to be woken up today, they would surely join Abhalali and say, this is not the freedom that we fought for. So we call this Un Freedom Day because all that we achieved in 1994 when we voted for the first time was actually the right to vote and it's not even a complete political freedom. It was only the right to cast our vote. That's the freedom that we can safely say we have achieved since 1994. So for Abhalali, we are saying this is a fake freedom. It is the freedom that saved the interest of the few, while the majority of the people of this country are still living in deep poverty. It would be unfair and it would be an insult for the poor Black majority of this country to say that we are free. So we have decided as Abhalali that we cannot accompany few politicians and few businessmen that are wealthy in this country and accompany them to a big stadium and pretend as if we are free. A free t-shirt and one plate of briyani doesn't constitute our freedom. So for Abhalali, freedom means the right to freely participate in decision-making of this country, in policymaking, in deciding what is right or wrong for this country. Freedom is something that we should feel. We should not be told. We should not be instructed by politicians that we should be celebrating. Freedom should come from within us. So freedom means the right to a dignified life, the right to access to both urban and rural land. Freedom will mean access to basic services that are fundamental for every human being to live. Freedom will mean access to water and sanitation. It will mean access to decent housing for all. It means access to job opportunities. It will mean that the social veil of land comes before its commercial veil. In other words, for us freedom is really the right that every man and woman in our sheks, in our townships, in our rural areas, in farm areas, it means that these rights have to be respected by all means necessary. So as long as we do not enjoy these rights, so as long as there is no freedom for us to speak, as long as we are naked, each time we raise the issue that concerns us, then there is no freedom. Right, that's a very, very powerful issue, I think, very globally applicable as well. But I also want to come to the question of land itself, which has been one of the central themes of Abarali's campaign, one of the central issues of your struggles. And Abarali is unique in the sense that it has presented a very powerful answer and alternative to the question of, to the urban question, as they say, to the issue of land, to the issue of employment, to the issue of homelessness. But could you maybe take us through, specifically in the urban context and with the issue of land, how the post-apartheid state has, you know, how has it fared and what is Abarali's alternative when it comes to this issue? Well, land remains a crisis in South Africa. And again, it is at this grace, we must be ashamed of us as majority Syravkans in this country, that up until today, at least 17 percent of land in this country is in the hands of the majority. 87 percent of the land remains in the hands of the white minority, mainly the white commercial farmers. So we do not have land, but we lie to ourself and say, we are in charge, we are running this country when we don't have land. So basically, land, if we had land, land means everything to us. It means that the finances, the poverty that continue to exist, would have been eradicated in urban context in particular. So the alternative, that's fine. It's simple and as clear as that, those who do not have land must simply occupy vacant and unused land as a political act, not as a criminal act. Those who do not have access to land have to occupy land. While the parliament and the politicians are busy debating laws and policies around land, the answer is simple and the alternative is that those who are landless. And we say to our members and to many people here in South Africa that it would be a disgrace for you as a Black African person not to have land in your own country. And the alternative is clear as that, land will never be given, land is taken, and this is what we do. The alternative is that we occupy land and this is what we do as a Black land. We occupy land to build houses for ourselves, but also to make sure that food sovereignty is provided. So there's food in the soil and it's important that for that, we don't have to ask for permission for us to leave. For us to have access to land. We were born in this land when we have to ask for land and permission to occupy land. Who should we ask because the owners of the land is ours? Furthermore, the alternative is that those who do not have access to water and sanitation, for those who do not have access to electricity, we call it here in South Africa, self-connection to water, self-connection to electricity. We call this operation Kanisa to put light for ourselves. We call this operation Fagamans to install water and connect water for ourselves. When the state is busy connecting water, electricity for the rich, we must be able to assist the state and speed up the process where they start from senting from the wealthy areas. We start from the poor of the poorest areas and then we meet, we will meet halfway and that's called urban planning from below. And this is what we do. Although we have pay a high price for that, but we have no other alternatives, that's fine. Right, and my next question was really about that because the Ekhanana commune, which is a brilliant example of what you've talked about, you know, food self-sufficiency, homes, political education, commercial activity, but at the same time, leaders of this commune-facing, relentless violence 2022 was an especially brutal year for your organization, some very important leaders killed, many of your leaders forced to go into exile as well. So at this point, how has, you know, how has this violence affected the movement and how has the movement continued to resist despite this very brutal violence? Well, this is a very deep question for me. It resonates so close to my hands and to many of Abahali activists who have really been affected by the question of assassination threats and the price that we have to pay for the alternatives to the question of land as we have outlined. We have taken a decision as Abahali. It is a do or die situation. Abahali have resolved socialism or death. We have seen death coming and we have not regretted having taken a decision that we have taken. That's socialism or death. So the price that we are paying has been the assassination of at least 24 Abahali activists whom told us even before they were killed that if, because they knew death was coming, they said to us, even if they are killed today and are walking up the next day, they will still tell you socialism or death. So they were very clear. So we are carrying deep scars. We have lost comrades. We have lost leaders. We have lost sons and daughters. We have lost family members but who have made ultimate sacrifice for the benefit of myself, my children, my neighborhood, my city, my province, my country and the entire world. Those who are cowards who choose to be killed softly and slowly, Abahali says it's a do or die. This is what we have resolved. So the assassination and the threats, violence that continue to be directed to Abahali continues. So we are not scared. We know that we are going to die one day but we do not want to die as cowards. When we leave this earth, we say it must be a better place than we have found it. Our children must enjoy our sweat and our sacrifice. The future generation must also enjoy what we plant as a seed of real freedom today. So Abahali continue to face serious repulsion. We continue to have our activists charge on camped up charges, on framed up charges. As a punishment, we continue to be denied basic services, including decent housing as a form of punishment and we continue to be killed with impunity. By the state, by the way, by the police, by the Isengadi, the heatmen that are often hired by the politicians because they see us as a blocking, as a stumbling block to enriching themselves. So this is what we have sacrificed for, that at least when we leave this earth, it is a better place. It is unfortunate that in order for us to have a better future, some of us must carry such burden, such scars, and make ultimate sacrifice as how comrades in Linde and Khemguni, Nogutullah Mabasso, Ayandangila, as well as Comrade Mangele had to give their life in order for my children and many others in the entire South Africans and Africans in the continent at large enjoy the fruits of free and freedom. Right. And I only suppose you could please if you could take us through specifically what some of the concrete demands of Un Freedom Day this year are and also what you see as a direction forward for the movement. Well, the first of all, this Un Freedom Day is a very special one that it is not just held in the city of Durban, but it is how it is going to be held in Bumalanga province in the small town of Folkras. It is going to be held in Jemisin, in Johannesburg, in Hauden province in this weekend. So we are proud of the growth and the expansion of the movement, the courage that has been planted by Abbasali throughout South Africa and we are hoping as we continue in more other provinces and the entire country will realize that we can no longer be told and lied to by the politicians who actually tell us that we are free when we have no freedom. So basically the demands, the concrete demands that Abbasali are going for in this particular Un Freedom Day is the question of land. Again, we are saying rapid land release for urban and rural farming is urgent. So we are calling for rapid land release for both urban and rural but specifically for farming as well as making sure that decent housing for all is realized. Without land, this cannot be realized. It is a lie, a fake to guarantee people the right to housing when you have actually no right to land. It is as joke as it sounds. Secondly, decent housing for all. We cannot no longer live in shacks like in muts like pigs. We deserve decent housing as well. We want an end to load-shedding. South Africa is in a crisis of energy. It is an energy crisis from now and again we have no electricity and that threatens our economy in our future. It threatens our job opportunities and even those who have jobs are actually losing jobs because when there is no energy then even those who are employed are kicked out of their job. Thirdly, there needs to be a serious problem on job creation. More than 47% of people in South Africa are unemployed and almost 75% of young people in this country have no jobs. What kind of a country, what kind of a society, what kind of a future are you actually building when you are making not sufficient effort to make sure that this job that I designed for everyone? Fifthly, we are calling for a participation of shared winners and impoverished in the construction of this country in decision-making. There must be meaningful engagement. There must be meaningful social compacts so that no one can be left behind as a result of their social economic background and so on. Sixthly, we are saying the assassination of a Bahá'í activists, land-right activists throughout South Africa, the continent and the world must come to an end. The assassination of traditional leaders, especially in this province of Quazilinata, the assassination of whistleblowers including Babita Quran and many more who have stood firm for a better South Africa must be protected by all means necessary. The minister of police must go. We have been assassinated, we continue to face serious violence because we have a useless minister, the minister that has become the minister of elites. He only attend issues of elites when poor and impoverished communities, activists, whistleblowers, human right defenders, even politicians for that matter. When they are murdered, the minister of police is nowhere to be found. I have personally made several calls and I try to spoke to him to say if you do not come, blood of our comrades must be asked in your hands. So we are saying the minister of police in South Africa, Begintale must go. He has failed the power of this country. Thank you so much, Sivu Sikode, president of Amhar Ali Bashe Majindola for talking to us, for taking some time amidst your busy organizing. We will be covering the events, the struggles around on freedom day and bring you reports on that as well. Thank you once again for talking to us. And that's all we have time for today. We will be covering more issues from South Africa, more struggles from South Africa, from the continent and the rest of the world on People's Dispatch. So keep watching.