 Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for coming tonight to this behind the musical seminar. Thank you for coming to this new space for us. I would like to give a huge thank you to the drama skills fund. This is their new office that they just had a grand opening two weeks ago. So we're sort of initiating this room for seminars and reading series and things like that. So thank you to the drama skills fund. So Poverman and Rachel Ruth, Gretchen Pryor, Alvin Redfields there. This room is actually called the Music Hall. It's been sponsored by Carol Hall and her foundation, and she has made it possible for writers to use this space for free. For readings, for rehearsals, for whatever you want to use it for. So if you're interested in coming back to this space and doing something here, you just need to go to the drama skills fund website, which is dgfund.org. And there's a link called programs. And at the bottom of the programs page is a link to look at the form for the Music Hall. So I recommend everyone come and have your rehearsal or your readings here. As you can see, it's very restful, very nice, even though we're across the street from Port Authority. But it's much better than what's going on at the drama skills right now completely gutting floors six and eight, and we're on floor seven. So if I could please ask you to turn your phones on vibrate. We're happy for you to tweet and post on Facebook and do all sorts of things. But if you could have your phones on vibrate, it won't disturb the performers or the songwriters for our internet audience. To our internet audience, hello. If you want to tweet a question for anyone on our panel or our lovely moderator, you need to do hashtag new play. Actually, that's for everybody. If you have a question and we haven't gotten to you yet, hashtag new play on Twitter. I'd like to thank all of the performers for taking time out of their busy schedules to do this for us. We thank you very much. All of their names are on the back of your program. So if you'd love and enjoy them, you can Google them and try to find out where to see them next. And just a little plug for the drama skills. As many of you know, we're having a conference this year in La Jolla, California. And the early bird deadline is made first. So if you want to come for a deeply discounted price and see many sessions like this and learn a lot about writing, you should come to the conference and pay the early bird price. So without further ado, it is my pleasure to introduce Michael Ian Walker and Kyle Powell, who are the producers and the originators of the behind the musical program. I'd like to adjust the camera so we can both fit in. Casually. Thank you all for coming. It's really exciting for us to be one, doing the show with the drama skill, but two, to be producing tonight and not be a part of it. This is the first behind the musical that we are not a part of it. We're super excited about that. And we're also incredibly thrilled and honored to have the wonderful, the fabulous person child here to moderate tonight. I'm sure you all know her many talents and all of her shows. But the black girl sheds her chameleon skin is an awesome show that I saw when I was younger and I loved. So without further ado, she's going to take us away and start with our first songwriter. Again, thank you all for coming. And for watching. And for watching, tweet your questions. Hashtag new play. Well, thank you for that lovely introduction. And now we're going to start the evening, which actually today is the day of the 2015 Tony nominations. And as usual, they are all overwhelmingly wonderful choices and also as usual, they're all overwhelmingly white and overwhelmingly male, which there are exceptions, but I think that's a pretty fair statement. So I'm curious and I'm sure you are curious as to what this says about the United States American Theater and should we care? And if we should care, why? And if we shouldn't care, why not? So these and other questions are things that we're perhaps going to discuss tonight. But before we do that, I would like to introduce you to three amazing, well, two amazing musical theater writers and one amazing musical theater writing team. And I just want them to come up here and show their work that nothing about diversity, just or if they have to discuss the diversity while they're showing their work, they're perfectly welcome to. But I want you to see their unique voices. So the very first person that we're going to bring up is Michael Jackson. Little disclaimer, I teach at NYU Graduate Musical Theatre Writing Program and Michael went to the school and I'm a little biased. I think he's absolutely phenomenal. So there you have it. But I would like for you to talk a little bit about your work, Michael. So what would you like to talk about? Well, I guess like one thing to know about me is that I'm a musical theater writer who sort of came to it in a very extremely roundabout way, which was that I started out in high school as a fiction and poetry writer who then a teacher just offhand said that something I had written struck her as being there cinematic, which then just led me to on a whim apply to the playwriting program at NYU as an undergrad, even though I'd never written a play. And then I got into that program somehow. So, but had you seen musicals? No, I had loved musicals like my whole life and my mother. That was something my mother and I used to always do. And I was in it as a kid. I was in shows and so I definitely had a love of musical theater, but I didn't think just like I didn't think that people wrote musicals. I just thought they sort of like like in a musical just sort of happened. And so like when I went, I studied playwriting and then one of my teachers, Martin Epstein, who used to teach the grad program. Wonderful, wonderful. Dramatic writing program teacher and also musical theater writing program. And he just one day I went to this anyone interested in a musical theater writing program and I said, well, I like musicals. So then I just went to the open house and I was like, oh, it seems like a cool program. And then I just applied to it on a whim. And then I got into the program, even though I'd never written a musical before. But then the way the program is set up structured, you sort of everyone sort of starts on the same page and then you sort of figure out where you that and I was not a music person in the program and I had no aspirations to be a music person. Though I did have a music somewhat of a music background because I played piano growing up. But once I had studied lyric writing, that gave me a strong foundation for musical ideas that I had. And so then it wasn't until the end of the first year we had another class where a teacher said, if you're a lyricist who's never written music, you can try bringing it in for this class. And so then I just on a whim decided to try writing a song for this class. And the song went, which is one of the songs I'm going to do tonight. It was the first song that I wrote and then I was encouraged to continue writing my own music. So my intersection with musical theater, I know we're talking about diversity in one context, but one thing that I sort of am interested in bringing in is how everyone sort of connects with the form itself. And I think there's a lot of questions about diversity in that because I came into musical theater in a extremely roundabout way. And that had nothing to do with necessarily with skin color or economic background. Well, I guess that might have had a little bit to do with it. But there's a lot of factors for me that go into the word diversity. And I'm interested in sort of unpacking that word even. Well, that's a perfect segue into presenting this song. I'm assuming that this is the song or is this another song? This is another one, but that song is part of my set. Okay. Well, why don't you talk a little bit about the song you're about to present? The song I'm about to present is it started off as a standalone song for a show that I've been developing for a while called A Strange Loop, which is a strange loop. And it's about a black gay male musical theater writer who works as an usher at the Lion King. And he sort of is having like, I guess you could call it an existential crisis about his many identities musical theater writing included. And in the piece, his thoughts are personified and they sort of play like his parents. They play student loan evil people who want all your money. They play like men on grinder and stuff like that. And sort of all of that plays out. The whole spectrum of like sort of problems and issues and questions that he's having about himself and who he is. And this song, which is currently in the show, but I might actually be about to cut it. But it's one that I had that like is a, it has a statement that I think was important for me personally. And also for the character. And what's the name of the song? It's called Second Wave. We did a reading and like, we just got to get in a room full of actors and like go through the piece and like just having that time and that space to do that. Just in going moment by moment, like you sort of feel sort of what's right and what's wrong and like what's not working. And like, and we cut actually quite a lot for the purpose of the reading. We didn't cut that from the reading, but in sort of a subsequent discussion with my director, we just had been questioning it. But I think it just really depends. It's really a question of like, if you're just having like a double dramatic beat or sort of wondering about the dramatic function of the song itself. And this one was sort of a late entry into the piece, which is why I'm not fully ready to cut it. But it's one that's resonated oddly enough with people when I like performed it. Which has been like a very strange thing for me because I was like very nervous about it when I first presented it. Well, I think it's a terrific song. And you know what, if you do cut it, it will be part of, you know, the Trunks song. The Trunks song of Dead Baby. Dead Baby Trunks song. Okay, so this work that you're on, you're working on, how far along are you with it, the one that grew? Well, it's interesting because this particular piece has, again, talking about like diversity and sort of my roundabout ways. Like I, this piece started off as a monologue that I wrote right after college, like over 10 years ago. Okay. And like, and it was before I started writing musicals. And so like, it started off as a monologue. And then I started writing the songs at NYU. And then I started trying to put those songs with the monologue. And then I started working with the director and we started shaping the piece. And it just started taking its own little unique shape because it's such a personal piece. It sort of defies the typical sort of dramaturgy that would normally go into a more conventional book musical. And so just finding the right temperament and the flow of it was really a challenge for me over the many, many years. And it wasn't actually until I went, I started working at the musical theater factory and I got a deadline. I found that like, the thing that like, that actually is my best friend is a deadline. And then, and Shatina, who's an artist director at the musical theater factory, gave me a deadline for the reading. And then I just happened to get a week long residency at Goodspeed with the Johnny Mercer Writers' Colony. And then I used that time there and the support of that really awesome group of people to like get me a little further along. And then we had the reading and so it's just been a lot of incremental steps to getting the piece in the shape that it's in now. So now I'm just like working on some rewrites on it and like I'm doing some sort of R&D to figure out about recording a demo. So like, just little baby steps last night, I had the honor of being one of the writers group, writers who was selected to represent the Johnny Mercer group at 54 Below on last night. So that was really awesome. So okay, well why don't we go to your next song and why don't you set this up as well? This next song is also from the show. It's called, and it's the first, it's the song that I wrote in the NYU course that sort of propelled me to continue writing. The one you were discussing before. Yeah, I was since before. And it's called Memory Song and it was just a song that I wrote. The thing about the song that's like both sort of the seed for the piece and just important for me is that like one thing that the teacher Mike Reed said was like the best argument. Mike Reed was one of the teachers at NYU who was our chair's collaborator, Sarah Schlesinger. And he also was the writer of the song I Can Make You Love Me, The Finding Raid Sims. And one thing that he said to me that has always stuck with me and sort of been like a sort of a touchstone for me is the argument against work that you hate is your own. Which is another way of saying be the change that you want to see in the world. And so I sort of always think about that in that I feel like I'm a demographic that is not necessarily, I'm a consumer. And I consume media, I consume entertainment, I consume theater, but I'm not necessarily a demographic that anyone is trying to market to, for example. And so the thing that I started doing with this song and eventually a lot of my work was to create the things that I would want to see as someone who is a consumer. This song is one that is like four and about black and then in that experience, which I know a lot about. But it's also something that like I offer up to an audience to sort of have their own connection to. It's called Memory Song. So why don't you set it up? To leave for his 7 p.m. show. So could we actually start from the first song and then I'll talk later. Sure. I would really love to hear a song by you. Why don't you tell me a little bit about the song you're going to present? The first song that I'm going to present is a song from the United States of us. The United States of us actually reflects the theme that we're going to cover tonight. It's a show about diversity. Okay, so why don't we stop there and let your singers sing and then we'll come back. Just tell us the title of the song. Robert Williams here is going to sing Connected Cut. I can say I do. Once there I'll take it yanky for some legal hanky-panky. And if New York tries to tantalize, I'll simply say no fanky. Yes. Travel on down to the heat, a shee, a shee. So wee! And I'll learn to sail. That song is from the United States of us. Sure. So the song is from the show that I worked with Liberty's Alan Gordon, who's sitting back there. Terrific. And it's called The United States of Us. And it's a story about two outsiders forming this very unusual family unit and trying to maintain it and maintain the normality, the sanity. And the story starts in 1998 when Ken, our protagonist, a gay guy, agrees to marry Esmeralda. She's a very, very pregnant, illegal immigrant lady from Colombia with expired visa. So he was to marry her and while they were raising her child together, they bond. But the pressure of deceiving both the outside world and their own son takes the day tall. And then the last threat comes around the second act. Time passes by and the possibility of the same-sex marriage coming to New York City becomes the biggest threat to this family, unusual family. So the song that Corbett just sang was from the second act. And he was actually the protagonist's colleague. And he was really excited that he had to get married in Connecticut because it was before the same-sex marriage was legal in New York. Right, right, right. So yeah, that was that. What a fun song. Thank you. I want to see the show. So you have worked on, I know you've worked with a bunch of different collaborators. And also I think you've done some work outside of the country. Yes. You want to talk, well, I would like you to talk about that. But also what do you get your inspiration from? I just try to keep my imagination spinning. I try to watch a lot of TV, which is not really good for me. I try to read a lot too. And I try to find inspiration from other media as well, like painting and books, plays. So just where it takes you. But talk about working in the United States as opposed to working in other countries. Because I think that's, I don't know if the other songwriting team, this is also something that happens with them. It is something that you do a lot of work here in the country and also outside of the country. Yes. Are there different challenges to working here as opposed to working elsewhere or vice versa? Actually, it all depends on, you know, person. But from my experience, I was born in Korea. And I studied music until my early 20s. So I came here pretty late, you know, and I happened to be working in the theater based in New York City. For me, the challenges that I'm facing here is probably because I'm a Korean composer and trying to make a mainstream here in the city rather than the challenges that the female composers have. I don't feel that yet, honestly. But when I work in Korea, it's a little bit different there because Korea definitely has some gender bias. But typically, music and theater industry is kind of not so much male dominated field, I would say. So that part is definitely a fortunate part for me. But because the industry is very young and still developing, it has to improve a little bit. But it's functioning in Korea as opposed to a lot of other different countries. It's a big industry and it's definitely booming and it's going to get bigger, I hope. But still, the interests are more like importing licensed musical from Broadway and Western and other European countries. So for Korean writers, we have so many great, great talents. They studied abroad, particularly here in New York, and you teach musical writing program and BMI as well. And other colleagues who study in London or other countries, they will go back to Korea and try to develop their own pieces for Korean audience. But because the public interest is kind of more towards the Western musicals, so it's definitely a challenging environment. Well, we don't want to hear Western musicals right now. Or we want to hear Western musicals that you're writing or whatever kind of musical that you are writing. Why don't we listen to your next song? Why don't you set it up? Okay, so the next song is going to be from a show called Better Than Dreaming that I wrote with Liberty's Alan Gordon again. And it's a loose adaptation of Shakespeare's Miss of the Night's Dream. And it takes place in the modern day Central Park in New York City. And in this song, our heroine Mia and her lover, Lyman, are serenading each other before they plan to elope into the park later. So please welcome Sarah Haaland and Skye Siew. What would I give up? What do I give up? What would I give up? Then let's get married right away and forget about the money. Would you do that? Would you give up a fortune to marry me? Depends. How much money? Seriously. What would I be giving up if I love you? How bad I take you on a quick little tour. Let's start with that nice condo in the park side, huge. Well, for example, 30 years ago. Dervant cater to my every need. Myself for just one when you could have two. A luxury that I could watch dissipations. No hurry to vacation. Place the stage tonight. In different languages. Oh, in different languages? Great. Do you use more of the local flavor in the music out there? Music wise, not particularly, because what we're doing is very American art form, even in Korea. So it's very western, contemporary or pop musical theater-ish music that they're familiar with as well. It's the same as here. It's more the Korean culture and their story. It's working through the filter of use. How do you think your background maybe changes it or does anything to it? Actually, that part I really have to start working on because I haven't really written anything from my culture, honestly. And I always- You don't have to work on it. If it's not broke, don't fix it. Because I was classically trained and that's western music. So I think that's why I didn't really get to study Korean traditional music or eastern music. But that part I will cover definitely soon. Yeah, that's it. Yes, I see a couple more questions. Sue and I don't know your name. Laura. Laura and then Laura. Are there any musicals that are presented in Korea? Are they done in Korea or are they done in English? In Korean. Oh, so they're translated? No. Actually, from the beginning, like a stage when I worked with my liberal students, there are six we write in Korean language. So there's no translation. There's no need for it. No need for it. And Laura? I immediately heard your classical training when you sat down with the piano and I also come from another world. I transitioned from opera into musical comedy. And I was curious because you said you work in a lot of different languages and I think that's global. And I feel like I'm one of the first global musical writers because I've written musical comedy or what's considered something on the cusp with a number of different languages in the oral pieces. And I'm curious whether you've ever tried anything like that or whether you work in each individual culture, each individual language separately. I think my case is more like the later one. So I tend to write musicals with their languages for their culture. The most current one that's kind of freaking me out is I will be writing a musical in Japanese for Japan and I don't speak Japanese. So I'm kind of freaking out. I have every faith that it's going to be fabulous. I asked the Japanese liberties if she could, when she sent me the script, along with the English translated script, I asked her if she could read the lyrics really, really, really slowly and clearly so that I can hear the reading of the words and so that I can scan the lyrics in the right way. Because I don't want to throw the audience off by the wrong scansion. What's actually brilliant about what you do is I believe in Korea that there is no rhyme, is that? Actually there is rhyme. I mean I think as long as you have consonant and vowels, there are rhymes. Okay, so it's a different kind of rhyme. But it's a different kind of rhyme and also I think the order of sentence, the order when you make sentence is kind of a little bit different. In Korean language, we finish sentence with verbs all the time. And the verbs are ending with kind of 8 or 9. I have to really count but 8 or 9 or 10 is a combination of vowel and consonant. So that's why we get simpler rhymes. There are rhymes but they are simpler than just language. Okay, well on that note, why don't we listen to your last song, the setup of it? And also how are you having things workshopped? This next song that you're doing, what's happening with it, aside from talking about what it is? Before the next song, the song that I just presented is from a show called Better Than Dreaming and it's going to be in the Santa Fe musical theater festival next month. Congratulations. Alan and I are really, really excited about it. And the next show, so the next show is called Little Miss Fix It. It's a show about 11 year old girl who's completely a control freak. And she's really, really precocious. So she reads the New York Times, drinks black coffee for breakfast and she really tries to bend spoons with her mind, which is really crazy control freak. And her parents are going through some domestic problems about getting divorced and stuff like that and she decides to dedicate herself to fix the problems of everyone around her. And she discovers that she can control everything and sometimes when you let things go, great things happen. And in this song, so she meets 12 year old impressionist painter boy named David and she's even more overwhelmed by the feelings, comes with first love. Sounds great and do you want to say who the collaborator is? Oh my God, I forgot the interpreter. Well, I would not forget her name and you're going to know why in a minute. The show is written with Kirsten Guenther, a really, really great lyricist. She's a fabulous collaborator. She has a great first name. And the song is called Totally Unorganized. Thank you, Joa. Cool things about them. So would you please welcome with me Dana Levinson and Stacy Onegard. Why don't you talk a little bit about maybe what you're working on and how you two approach writing musicals together? Yeah, so right now we have two main projects that we're working on. One is called Fifth Republic, which were actually dramatized skilled fellows as well so we're working on that with the fellowship. Fifth Republic? Fifth Republic, yeah. And then the other is... The other one is called Jerome's, which is with another collaborator, Larry Hamilton. He's back there. He's going to be back. And it's not El Jerome. No. It's a different joke. And Fifth Republic is a show that takes place in 1958 in Paris. And it is set against the backdrop of Charles de Gaulle's Return to Power, the Algerian War for Independence, and is a... Well, we keep debating whether it's a war story or a love story, but so that's to be determined. But the main love story is between a French soldier and an Algerian refugee named Leila. And then do you want to talk about Jeroz? Sure. Jeroz is set in 1890s New Orleans. I'm getting a French sort of connection. Yeah, I know. We like historical fiction, and this has kind of fallen into that place. But it's set in a brothel in New Orleans in 1890s in Storyville. But this brothel is a special brothel where all of the girls are actually boys, which is based off of a real thing that happened at the time, so it's based on real historical events. And the tone of it is much more Southern Gothic rather than like Kingly Boots. And of course, because we're in New Orleans, there's a voodoo element. Is that Marie LeVoe? Does she figure into it at all? No. Oh, she's not in a brothel in New Orleans. I mean, she could have been. She could have been. Yeah, so also the stuff we work on has a tendency to be very... through song in a lot of ways. So there's a lot of going back and forth. Stacy writes a book. I do music and lyrics, but we're starting to collaborate on lyrics with each other as well. But even when I'm doing lyrics on my own, there's a lot of back and forth. Stacy will send me a scene, I'll musicalize parts of it, I'll send it back to her, she'll adjust things, and then work very, very closely together. So do you want to give us the first song and set it up and let us hear some of this? Is this going to be from the Charles de Gaulle one or from the... This is from Fifth Republic. Yeah. So Ben Ravola is going to play piano for us. And then I also want to bring up Jerry and Perez and Reese Gilead. Okay. So this is our couple, Rene and Leila. And this is basically their first love duet. I don't think it needs much more setup than that. That sounds love. What did you say? My face, every heartache is there. Red held me captive, without mercy, far too tough to breathe through. To those waves, feeling listless and numb. If this is treating a tree, I'm not more like maintenance. Decent for some. Subject matter is kinds of stories you're interested in. And because at least when we collaborate, they tend to hear that in my other life. I do children stuff, so like, not the same. Yeah. What do we tend to... Yeah, I think that the connective piece for us is that Stacey and I are both big believers in that art generally, but theater I think has a special power to sort of build bridges between people and make people that an audience might otherwise look at other, force them to embrace that person or acknowledge their humanity and that sort of stuff. So I think the connective pieces we tend to be attracted to stories that have a strong social justice element to it. And they also tend to be stories of identity and finding your place, as far as what the journey of whoever the character we're actually following is. And then set against a world that is a little bit... Conspiring to... Pull it apart. Yeah. And are there any special challenges to trying to either create that or have it produced? Well, I think the big thing is having it produced. I hate to tell you, but that's for everybody. But it might be... But that being said, there are also other challenges that sometimes are greater for people. Yeah. Well, what I think a big part of the issue for us is in terms of specifically, more specifically what I mean by that, is that these days in new musical theater, there's not as much of a space to try out new works that have size and scope and all of that sort of stuff. So it's much harder to find development opportunities and stuff like that. Also, when you're saying that size, are you anticipating... Are you writing this for a really big cast? Large for today's standards. So our ideal would be to play on the Broadway form of size. It doesn't mean that we'd be like, oh, the show has to be on Broadway. It's just that we want a cast of 20. Yeah, exactly, which is hard these days. Yeah. And especially Fifth Republic, what's problematic is there's a mix of French music and Arabic music. So it also means that there's basically two bands for the musical storytelling to exist. I mean, what I think is admirable is that you're continuing as if it's going to happen. And who knows? Who knows? We keep on joking. We need to find a small commercial story to do instead. No, this sounds really wonderful. You know what I'm going to throw it out to the audience? Do you have a question to ask? Does anyone have a question? Yes. Lady in purple. Lovely purple. You. Isn't that purple? Yes. Yes. Right. Do you start with a musical sound that you want for a song? I'm always fascinated by what the left hand does versus the melody. Yeah. Or do you start with the lyrics first? I want to change treatment. Yeah. I used to write lyrics first. And I found that it played into my weaknesses as a lyricist, which was being overly verbose and overly complicated and all of that. So actually, Steve Lutvac, who wrote Gentleman's Guide, suggested to me to try flipping around and try writing music first. And I found for a while that it was very helpful. I would outline a melody in a chord progression and then write a lyric to a melody that was already written. And now that I've sort of guarded myself and given myself an internal guard against some of my weaknesses as a lyricist, now I go back and forth sort of depending on whether the song should be more conversational, depending on what the moment is, all of that sort of stuff. Now these days, I often ask Stacy to write me a scene, and then I sort of musicalize elements of it and stuff like that. Wow. Good. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yeah. What's your process once a director comes in and you both have already collaborated with Stacy? Well, I mean, we enjoy getting like Bird's Eye View of a piece. And we pride ourselves on actually being very open to changing things. Usually we can acknowledge our problems and go, yeah, and then cut a song or change a scene. So for us bringing it outside, I actually is welcomed and very helpful. Yeah. Because for us working together, we collaborate very closely. And sometimes you can kind of be blind to solutions for problems at least. You might see that there's a problem that go between us. Like we've nixed all of the things that we think could solve it or we've tried to solve it. And then getting a third person in helps go, oh, that's what that is. Yeah. Yeah. And in Fifth Republic, we've had a director attach Donna Drake for a long time. And she's been very helpful in terms of... Yeah. Kind of weeding out the story and making sure that everything remains clear. So like if we give her an outline, she goes, wait, I'm kind of lost right around here where we might not have even seen it. And then we look at it again and go, oh, you're right. That's where we lose the main character. So stuff like that is very helpful as well. And then Joyce Collaborator. Your name again? Alan. Yeah. A question for Dana. When you were working with the sort of more Arabic music, did you find that the change, how you put together the songs or was there a difference? Yeah, absolutely. I started studying Arabic music with Bussam Saba, who is the conductor of the New York Arabic Orchestra, and taught myself, not taught myself, started to teach myself the Ud, then started taking Ud lessons. And everything in Arabic music is first based around a rhythm. So I first like find the rhythm of the song that I want and then start to build the melody into the rhythm. And also often in Arabic music, it's all counterpoint and like there's no harmonic structure even in the instrumentation. So then the melody that I outline in the instrumental ends up not being the melody of the vocal. So then I just start like improvising vocals over whatever melody I've outlined and then go from there. So for that kind of composition, do you find that it's harder sometimes for the performer to grasp the singing of it as opposed to when it's done in classical European style? Yeah, absolutely. And it's one of the things that we've struggled with in terms of authenticity versus commercial viability and accessibility for a Western audience. Just taking a balance between the two styles and seeing kind of how to make that feel commercially viable and leaving one in the dust. Any other questions before we go on to? I think we have to actually go on to the next part. So why don't you introduce the next song? So we're going to bring Rhys back out. Are you there? This is also from Fifth Republic. It's a different character, not the one that Rhys was singing before. We have the character of Pierre, who's sort of this Chey and Evita archetype, sort of narrating. Maybe he's a political context for the show and then kind of guides our eye from the moment to moment. So this is his big act two solo and it's sort of his message for war mongers out there during this war and then eventually... Encouraging them or? You'll see. But eventually becomes a self-reflective moment for him which is, I think, the first time we're ever really getting that from that character in the show. And the title is? Do they notice? Do they notice? Yeah. He's the fanfare for those at the history for God. Still. But yes, do they notice? All the grief that they are. Do they notice? There's all the world moves on. They're still inky and grieving. We're still foreign. The flat is a soulful show. We are to lens run out. And our what-ifs expire just like this stagnant smoke. We chose a path. Steal the inserting. And now I am left with the bill. Live with your choice. I know, move past your marks. But if I don't remember, who will? So... Do they see they can't turn back yesterday? Do they notice? Every fissure and crack. Do they notice? That is all our leaders' way. Sign their treaties. Snap photos. Too many are left. Hiding signs of disaster. Steal the wounds. Can't be healed with a pen. And text back. Perry the war may be done. But the world doesn't end at the same. So... I lost. Yes. Do they notice? That I am choking. And toss. Do they notice? That is the first swastika cry. I am left here in tatters. Each day left to contemplate. Tell us a little bit more about the piece that you're working on. Great. Talk some more about it. So the final song is from Jaros. And Larry Hamilton is going to come up and sing this song. Larry? He's also one of the collaborators. This whole show is Larry's Baby. And Larry brought it to us. And then we came on to this project with him. And I've been working on it now for a bit. Fantastic. And so the character is Clea. And she's one of the girls in the brothel. And in the beginning of the show she's sort of like a best in porgy and best archetype. Very low self-worth. That sort of thing. And this is her big act two solo. Is there anything? I mean she ends up falling in love with a man from outside the brothel. From a different world than she's in. And then he promises to take her outside of the brothel. For the first time. Which for a girl. Is she experiencing Adjahab before leaving her? Well I find that a little bit of self-doubt. I should stop asking these questions and listen to the song. A little bit of self-doubt maybe. There's a reminder for anyone who might have forgotten the girls in the brothel are boys. Perhaps I could be some kind of happy If I can be free from the fight Yes. Perhaps I could be some kind of peaceful With no one to push me or slight Perhaps I could be some kind of happy If I have someone to rise Yes. Perhaps I could be some kind of hopeful If my bed is warm Sit aside to make happiness last Reason to clean So what's time for my Perhaps I could be some kind of happy If I have a home of my own Yes. Perhaps I could be some kind of steady With no one to scuff or to sew off this weight Straight towards the cliff Farewell to Hain and Blocks Down to Newcombe The bass and drums Tears and take the tears And storm-cust-weight Have she So why don't we talk... Okay. So at the beginning of this I talked about the fact of the Tony's The sort of the nominations being sort of not that diverse What is it, the Oscars? We're not that diverse this year. In this world of post-racial, you know, all lives matter What does this say about the theater? Well, no. Fun Home is actually one of the exceptions to this But that is thrilling that it is up and well deserved But maybe it isn't a big issue for people I guess there's so many levels to this Because the nominations are not that diverse But the shows that could be nominated were not that diverse We're not that diverse to begin with So I'm a little bit at a loss about... I feel like what comes first, the chicken or the egg? Well, what does come first? Yeah, I think it's not necessarily a... I think it starts with diversity in what's on Broadway Okay And then, you know, because we were talking about this earlier But that, as you were saying, it wasn't a particularly diverse season I mean, you had Disgraced, you have The King and I Fun Home Yeah, Fun Home And all of those shows got recognized in the nominations So it's just, I think it's more of an issue Of lack of diversity in what's being actually produced And I also want to clarify I mean, diversity not just in terms of race and ethnicity I also mean in terms of experience and backgrounds And kinds of stories that are being told And I think another part of it is also like It's kind of hard for me to sort of think about diversity Even within the context of this thing called Broadway Broadway itself is almost like a sort of like A dynamic ecosystem of itself And so like, when I then think about like Off-Broadway? Off-Broadway? I mean, yeah, so like, I mean, if you go off-off-Broadway If you go, you know, to theater companies That are doing things in Brooklyn or in Astoria Or wherever or regionally Like, there's so many other places where If you really are looking for like, diversity It's going to be in a lot of those other places Because the people who are making the decisions Themselves are either of communities That they want to represent Or are interested in serving other communities Whereas to me, Broadway is so money driven That like, I almost understand why it is not more diverse Because there's too much money at stake For you to really factor that in Unless you're willing to like Potentially take losses because there's So you have to take a chance on like Things that might not be popular Or money making, you know, on that level But talk about taking chances What is the purpose of doing theater If it's not to take chances? I absolutely agree with you Broadway itself is just Seems like this big jug or not That's not necessarily about... Not that it cannot be about that But in this time, at this moment It's not necessarily the being the conduit for that But there are tons of other theatrical venues That like offer that And I also think that there's sort of an assumption Of certain stories being a risk, I think Because some of us were also talking about earlier Like especially look at TV right now Is more diverse than I think it ever has been And some of those shows are the most successful Shows on television So that doesn't necessarily translate But I do believe that the fear is there I think the interesting thing about the television Sort of like using television comparison Is that I think part of a big reason Why television is becoming more diverse Because what we turn is diverse Is because the people, those who are they Those who make those decisions are recognizing That there is money to be made from those communities Whereas I think theater is a little bit different Because the money that is to be made And I'm using specifically in terms of Broadway I don't know that producers have necessarily gone Ah, we can make money by going to these communities If the people who are going to the theater Are bored by all these white, male, cis, gender People play and therefore I'm not going to go see them Until the theater becomes diverse Then I think suddenly you're going to see Gay, trans, woman, everything Because then those people will be the ones Who are the economic lifestream For a selective audience right now Maybe the problems are with the production companies Who are controlling the funding But also I think there's something about Something that we writers could do as well Because I hear often that there are not so many Leading or supportive roles for Asian actors To audition for other than King and I Or Flower Drums on the Saigon and that's it Or maybe Avenue Q for just one That the Christmas Eve character So I think that that's our responsibility To bring our community and bring minority community Into our writing so that we can create more roles For actors from minority culture And also embrace the audience from minority culture As well Okay But you still also want to be successful In the commercial world So what is the, you know, how do you weigh? I think even though you take the material From specific culture, I don't know You artfully really masterfully universalize it Is that even a word? I think it is, absolutely Yes, simply know how to make it more universal So that more people can relate themselves to it And then that's the way to attract I mean I don't know how to do it yet I'm still learning But might be able to attract some money people You know producers and make it out there I also think that's the way that you That what we were talking about before That you build bridges between communities of people Where if you have a culture that people Might not necessarily feel comfortable with Or know a lot about That if you have a character or a story of that culture And make people relate to that character And care about them You know with those universal themes That you were talking about I think that's helpful and important also And I was just going to add like I think Like another thing that's like really important Is getting people who are telling these stories The access to those who are producing And that's just something that you sort of Learn as you're trying to do this It's particularly in New York is that like Sometimes it can be hard to like You might have a great story That's going to have those universal themes And have those diverse stories And characters and everything That will you know do all of that work But if you can't get it to the right Channels to get it in the pipeline To be seen then like you're sort of in this vacuum What do you think about audience building I mean you know because let's face it You know the predominant audience For Broadway shows is watching stories about themselves Right So how do you get people to come to the theater To watch stories about themselves That are perhaps not that on me Ready for that? Yeah I think that's where like Ultimately like I believe in If there's a good story Ultimately the story is like What went out or if they're good characters The catch is of course getting people Over the threshold of walking into the theater So if you do have something that Manages to get far enough That let's say you are on Broadway And you have a more diverse outlook In your show than what the audience Would necessarily usually be You have to then be able to sell it to them And that's where then it gets into The economics of what is Broadway right now Where people want to minimize the risk And minimize the risk You minimize the chance that you have An even greater success Just because you're trying to like Level out so that you hopefully Lose less money than you could But usually on that scale Theater is a losing endeavor Money wise Most shows don't recoup So you're either going for your awards Or you're going to last longer And hopefully recoup But like the concept of running long enough To recoup doesn't Is a newer thing Right In my understanding Just because of the nature of our current economy And so people try to minimize Their risk over a certain amount of time By simplifying what the story is Appealing to a broader group of people And hoping that at least it's Good enough to pass through But that seems incredibly depressing That you would have to sit there And try to create a story When you're trying to create a truth You're trying to understand something about Humanity And then you have to go Yeah, but will it be too threatening For somebody The difference between what was Network television And what became cable and premium I mean like in terms of appealing To a certain audience and demographic And hoping that because of the nature Of how the network system was set up That you needed to appeal To those broad audiences Because they were people watching Your programs So you needed to make sure That you got as many people as possible And then each network kind of Found their niche And what their audience ish was Right, but that's something But we are all writers And we own our own work And we're not working for a culture That is saying, okay This, you know, we've done these studies And this will work for this group And this will So let's cobble it all together And make it really, really That seems to be something that is Problematic with trying to create Yeah, it's definitely problematic I definitely find it problematic Because I think like a big part Of the problem is that Because it's so much money There's so much fear Like I'm going to use my show as an example Just because I've been having This very interesting experience I alluded to it a bit And threw it in my set And before you go on We're going to Please don't leave Because we want to hear your We want to hear your question Which is that like I've written this show That is by design For essentially For and about like black amen Which you would think That when you present that To a mostly not that audience That people would be like Is this interested or bored or whatever But the experience that I have had In the last couple of times That I've presented it Is that people who are not Of that background are interested in it But like And I feel like that would be the case With many other people's stories as well But like because that does not seem Like the most obvious thing Like in trying to gain access Like you can't prove that to someone Unless you like show them That that is the case And so I think that like Actually using the sort of Television thing as an example Like assume it like it kind of If you can just show it If you can just prove it Then like suddenly the gate Start to open a little bit wider And I also think part of the key of that Especially for you is that You're brutally honest And you're just Don't run from anything And you put it out there With good craft But before you go on I want to have this lady ask her question I have my own company And I worked out in Times Square I'm multilingual That's why I'm very interested In what you were doing And talking about before And I could hear I can hear all the different cultures And all the different presenters tonight Excuse me And it really fascinated me Because my year is attuned To all the different music of the world But also to all the different languages And my biggest client Or shouldn't be mine Not my biggest client But one of my main clients Was in the Heights Which was the first bilingual musical That came to Broadway And it won every Tony award Every Tony award in every category So the interesting thing was When it first started it was off-Broadway And it was nurtured off-Broadway So you have to think of a place Where you can nurture more diverse work Whether it's multilingual work Like what I'm trying to do And I also am interested Into generational I find that there's a preponderance Of entirely too young people On the stage Where is my generation? Where is my grandmother's generation? That's wrong with people too But what I found when I was working with the marketing director To get the Hispanic community To come to see in the Heights And it was also the first rap musical Was that the Hispanic community And rightly so Did not feel that Broadway Or off-Broadway or any theater Was representing them With dignity And self-respect on a Broadway stage And they almost resented West Side Story In a sense because that was the only time That they were represented And I had worked with other Broadway and off-Broadway shows Of Hispanic or Latin or whatever And it was always the same thing The community itself Turned its back on Broadway And on the American musical Because it didn't represent them So I say to you From my experience as a person In the marketing and audience development Marina You have to do what is true to you In your heart and in your soul And in your person when you are creating But you also have to gather Your community around you And ask them to get in the seats And then get other people To come and get in the seats And get on that internet And talk to those people On the other parts of the world So when they come to New York For their tourist Tourist thing Tell them don't go see this one Go see that one Et cetera From Laura's mouth From Laura's mouth And I wish we could continue on But I think it's time for Do we have time for one more question? One more and I would actually I would say I think there are a lot of writers Watching the internet and the audience If there are places that you guys have found That are particularly supportive Of diverse writers And places people can look I think that would be cool to plug in And the last question Kevin McCollum had that On his desk for two years And the big thing with why That got pushed is he just liked A writer It was a personal thing Who could not like that writer? He was absolutely wonderful He said hey I'm going to work with Scott That's how it happens Because most writers Nobody even reads the stuff A lot of times they just You know there's some good stuff I mean disgraced and you had The best thing in the past Ten years that I've seen was Apparently they changed That closed in like three months And it was honest and brilliant Loved it But to be fair There are many wonderful things That close in three months That's exactly right But that's where the market Let me just answer you But I think part of the What's missing I mean broad is commercial theater Is commercial theater I was on a panel On gender equity For dramatics field Gee I think it was about five or six years ago And the idea of putting producers together With writers for me is like crazy Because writers and you know This should be produced Nobody's work should be produced You know it'll be produced If they feel that it's good So I think this Theoretically it doesn't function The way it used to way way back Where there was a place for a lot of Different types of work And you know it's a governmental issue too People in other countries It's like I'm going to write a play The government will fund it And then it's going to be removed So there's got to be a place You can't talk about it There's got to be other layers I have a production company I pay for my own production Because I believe in myself I don't believe in myself That's a wonderful thing I think all of these things I think all of these ideas Are really wonderful And I wish with all my heart I hope success for Everyone here on the panel Because you all deserve it And I am just so thrilled To have this experience to work This afternoon And I'm sure these people are as well So on that note We are ending this diversity panel Congratulations