 So the Burlington Tenants Union, the mission is to grow tenant power, improve housing quality and democratize housing in the greater Burlington area through collective organizing, education and redistribution of resources back into the hands of the people. We have a public meeting tomorrow at the library at 10 am. There will be some refreshments. So we would love if folks who came out tonight come there tomorrow. In the back of the room, Emily has some paper copies of questions, a questionnaire that some counselors answered. However, if you, there's only a few paper copies, so you can also access it online at burlingtontenantsunion.com. And then it's under Join Us for the Council Debate. And if you click the button Download, it will download it and show up on your phone. Our hope tonight was that really the folks in the audience would be able to ask questions and share stories, you know, read what some candidates have said and answer those questions or ask questions. So the general rules tonight, we ask that if you are asking a question, you leave it to under one minute if possible. If you want to ask a question, but for whatever reason don't feel comfortable, there are sticky notes right outside. You can write your sticky note, write your question down, bring it up. I'm happy to ask it. We understand that being a renter can be incredibly traumatic, particularly if you have been evicted or discriminated against. That being said, we ask that there is no hate speech bullying or harassment. If you are a landlord or work for a landlord, we ask that you not ask questions. This is a space for tenants to ask questions. And if there are homeowners that want to ask questions, we ask that you wait until all tenants who have wanted to ask are able to ask. So this is just going to be a kind of debate town hall type style. We're hoping that tenants will share their experiences. Council candidates are allowed and encouraged to respond if you hear something you might disagree with or that you agree with. And we ask that just because there are so many candidates and we thank you all so much for being here. We ask that you try to keep answers to 30 seconds. We understand that that will not happen, but that's just to reach for that. My job is going to be to keep candidates on time for folks who come up to the podium, let them know when they can speak, allow candidates to respond, make sure that people who are asking questions keep to their own time, and that is really it. So before we begin, I was just hoping we could go one at a time very quickly, very briefly, just a very short introduction. I do want to add before the introduction that Councillor Brian Pine was unable to make it. He had a family emergency. And he did answer the questions in the questionnaire, but unfortunately there was some technical issues and he was not able to access them from where he is tonight. But he does have Erhard who is here, who is going to give some opening remarks in Brian's place. So Sharon, if you want to begin. And what is the time for this? One minute. One minute. Thank you. So thank you all for coming. I'm really glad to see you all. And I'm glad that you, the renters have found their voice as a group and actually weighed in on the housing summit and said, I made a minute to the City Council and the administration. You're not answering, you're not addressing our concerns. And that made us stop and realize that it was more focused on a lot of other issues, but not specifically on concerns for renters. The report that came from the administration also identified one vulnerability that I just want to highlight, the fact that during evictions, and when evictions are because of lack of being able to pay your rent, most of the evictions happen because you don't have legal representation. That is something that resonated for me and it's moving through the ACLU at the state level to try to address that. That's one of the things that I think the City Council can do to make that more effective for you. I'm going to stop now. There are so many other things to speak about, but that is one thing that I think is really important. So thank you again. Hi, I'm Zariah Hightower. I'm running in huge part because of Burlington's housing problems. This is not helping my career. This isn't doing anything. I'm just doing this. Partially, honestly, the day that I decided to run was at a Burlington Tenants Union meeting and I was like, okay, we need somebody in representation who isn't just talking about this, who doesn't need to be told, hey, you haven't thought about the tenants or the tenants' rights, but who actually wants to progressively push them forward. I have lived in other cities and when I moved to Burlington, it definitely struck me that how progressive it can be in other ways. It's insane how few tenants' rights and how weak our tenants' rights are. So I'm really looking forward to working on that first and foremost and really representing tenants in particular. I'll just briefly introduce myself. My name is Jillian Scannell. I'm running for City Council in Ward 1. Currently a senior at UVM and student body president. I've been a tenant the past probably three or four years, I'd say. And I'll just leave it at that if you have any questions that I'm not able to answer tonight or I don't have enough time, feel free to reach out at another point, but I really just want to get going this evening. So thank you. I'm Ryan Nick. I'm running in Ward 2 for City Council. One of the main drivers behind why I'm running is that I worry that I won't be able to afford to live here in the coming years and really wanted to do something about it and have a positive impact on my community. You know, I look forward to answering your questions. Just reading over the documents and the questionnaire has been a very informative experience and it's, you know, taught me a lot about your movement and what you guys are seeking. And I look forward to hearing your questions and learning more about it. Thank you. So I'm Max Tracy. I'm currently the City Councilor for Ward 2 in the Old North End. I've been on the City Council last eight years. And during that time I've stood up against an administration that's tried to really push neoliberal policies that have benefited the wealthy in the city to the detriment, I think, of the great majority of tenants and renters in the city. And that is really, in my mind, grounded in this ideology that if we just build more housing that that alone will solve the housing crisis. But I think that what we've seen is that that really is not working for many people. Rents continue to rise in the city. So I think that everything needs to be on the table when we think about housing and that includes rent control. We'll just let Erhard in just because Brian is Ward 3. If you don't mind, I'm sneaking in. Thank you. Thanks, Charles. So my name is Erhard Monk. I appreciate the moment to speak on behalf of Brian. I actually used to be a City Councilor from Ward 1. So I've worked with Brian for many, many years. So I've got a brief text from him that I wanted to, that he asked me to share. He says, I am tired, excuse me, I am tied to my mother's house without internet and deep into planning for her home health care needs. This is urgent for me. So he apologizes for not being able to be here. This kind of happened as an emergency. The general comment that he'd like me to share with you tonight is he'd like me to explain, number one, that he did send a completed survey on February 9th, got the news late this Wednesday night that the file was blank. My mistake and I apologize. I got my start in politics with tenants' rights and have been a housing activist and professional for over 30 years. I support the goals of the Tenants Union and will continue to work together to protect tenants and expand tenants' rights. On rent control, I prefer to focus time and energy on struggles that are winnable and can deliver for tenants now rather than a multi-year battle with no chance of victory at the legislature. Just cause eviction, expanding protections from retaliatory evictions, expanding housing, Board of Review, jurisdiction, and updating the rental housing code are issues that can galvanize tenants and homeowners and nonprofits and make a real impact without relying on an anti-tenant legislature. Since he and I see eye to eye, he asked me to be his surrogate tonight, but I just have to say I'm not going to speak for Brian other than this. We actually have a bit of a plumbing emergency at home, so I'm going to excuse myself and try to fix that tonight. Thanks. Thank you. Hi, I'm Sarah Carpenter and I'm running for Council in Ward 4. I'm very excited to really get back involved locally with the city. I retired last year after a long professional career in housing with the Vermont Housing Finance Agency and with Cathedral Square Housing, and I'm hoping that I can bring some of that insight back home. Currently, I'm working as a volunteer with some statewide legislation that would require housing code enforcement statewide. It would require a landlord directory statewide. It would fund a back rent program and put some money in for legal representation statewide, as well as try to get more resources for housing. I'm anxious to get your feedback, but that's what I've been working on. Hello, everybody. My name is Nate Lanterie. I'm running for City Council in Ward 5. I'm a renter. I have been for the last five years, and I just want to start out by saying I'm so glad that the Tenants Union has come into existence in these past few years. I remember not that long ago thinking that our dynamic in between landlords and tenants was at such a disparity that we needed to work collectively to have a stronger voice. You know, we are 60% of the people of this city, and so often that voice is kept out of the conversation. So I am so glad to see that the Tenants Union is getting stronger, and I hope that through my campaign and through the next few years on council, we can make sure that tenants' voices are heard, that they're represented at the table, and that their best interests are really at the forefront for really trying to make a people's version of Burlington moving forward. Thank you. Thanks. Hi. Good evening. My name is Karen Paul. I am the City Councilor in Ward 6, and I'd like to also echo what others have said in thanking the Burlington Tenants Union for hosting this event, and I also want to add that I value the work that the Burlington Tenants Union is doing, and I think that the message of your membership and your constituency is getting out there, and I do think that you are being heard. I know that I am hearing you, and I am listening. In that vein, this evening, I look forward to hearing from people that are here this evening and talking about your concerns, about your struggles, about what you love about living in Burlington, and what you feel that we can do better. You know, being a renter, being a landlord, is a unique relationship, and more so perhaps in any other group of residents in this city, because those of you who are renters are so reliant on someone else for a basic necessity of life. I think that you more so than perhaps anyone else deserve and need to know that your elected officials are here to assist you, to support you, to listen, and to act, and again, thank you for asking me to participate. I'm looking forward to this evening. Thank you. Hello, my name is Ali Jang, and I am currently the City Council for Ward 7 in the New North End. We have less renters there, but it seems in Burlington we have more renters than homeowners. I'm one of the homeowners, and I was a renter for over eight years, and someone who came to this country only 13 years ago, so I understand what it means. Me, my stand is always about affordable roof. Renters have a privilege, but we also have homeless people who are here in this community, and they're not organized like you are. The problem of housing is bigger than just renters, homeowners, but it's also more than all of that. Our focus should be how do we make sure that everyone reside in Burlington is under a roof. That's a bigger picture for me, and I'm a community organizer. I became City Council in 2007, and I try to serve everyone in Burlington to the best of my abilities. Thank you for having us. Hello, everybody. My name is Adam Roof. I'm your current Ward 8 City Councilor, and I've lived in that neighborhood for about 10 years, which I did the math out recently, and that means I've spent over $100,000 in rent in my time living here in Burlington, which is just a... I never really thought of it like that until recently, and it's just daunting to think that's what I've invested in really nothing. Two things that I've been grateful to be a part of as part of my time in the City Council has been sitting on the Housing Trust Fund administrative board, which gets to deploy the dollars that are brought to bear by our Housing Trust Fund. Those dollars are leveraged to create affordable housing in real ways, and that's been something that was rewarding. Also, leading a handful of homelessness initiatives with my friend Stephen Marshall here in the front row. We work together a lot, including working on a partnership to make sure that our housing, our homelessness shelter was able to open this fall. I'm a believer in public policy and do believe that we need to add more housing to our housing market, but we can't stop there, because if we do, then we're not doing our job. We need to be looking at a comprehensive strategy when it comes to affordable housing and not just addressing the cost side, but also the income side, which I think does not get enough attention when talking about the affordability equation because there are two sides of that. Thanks. Good evening, everyone. My name is Jane Schromberg, and I'm running for City Council in Ward 8, and I just want to also thank the Tenants Union for hosting this, and also a huge shout out to Food Not Bombs. That was awesome, y'all. And delicious. I have a bun. So the message, if you've seen my signs around the city, is people on the planet over profit. I am extremely frustrated with the direction that we're going in as a city, and yeah, rent is expensive, and I'm working two jobs currently to pay rent, and I'm extremely terrified at the pace and direction that city government with such a background in development is taking us. And we're being irresponsible, and we're not bringing in as many people into the conversation as possible, and that's why I look up to this organization because this is that first step in doing so. But we have a lot of work to do. We have a lot of work to do, and I really want to hold our landlords accountable through landlord licensing. We need rent control in the city, and not just like a plan, and not just like this kind of conversation around it. We need to actually enact rent control and enforce that, and it has to be done in a responsible manner and in a way that is inclusionary, but there's a lot of affordability issues that we need to focus on. Wages, all of those things are under that umbrella. So that is a huge priority of mine, and yeah, holding our landlords accountable, holding UVM accountable to creating more housing on campus that's affordable and just an increase in numbers, there's a ton that we need to address. Wonderful, thank you. So now that we have heard introductions, which was impressive, I think almost everyone got around one minute, so congratulations. It would be great to hear from tenants. Anyone who wants to come up who has a question that they would like to ask, this is your time. You've got over 10 counselors here right now. I can start with a question that we got earlier this week. If you are elected, what will you do for low income and affordable housing residents in Burlington? Specifically, what would you be willing to do to assist affordable housing residents who are being victimized by unfair and unethical treatment by Burlington Housing Authority? So we'll start on the right, Sharon, and work our way down, and anyone has a question? If you want to pass, please feel free to. In just 30 seconds. I must admit, I don't know the nature of the unethical treatment from Burlington Housing Authority, and so I would have benefited from hearing an example. Certainly, I want fair and equitable housing, and if there is something that is presented, that the tenant needs... Once again, I started off with saying that tenants are vulnerable because oftentimes they represent themselves or don't have some legal representation. So I come back to that as one of the ways to empower them in a dispute where there is an unfair balance of power. Thank you. Maybe I'm going to have a hard time keeping this to 30 seconds. It will be hard. I first want to say, I'm only one of the candidates and one who's even bothered to knock on the Champlain Housing Trust units and ask them if they're having troubles with that landlord, which makes me angry when I see multiple fliers in neighborhoods whose voices are regularly represented. So I think, first of all, if you're talking about giving them a voice, you need to listen to that voice first and foremost to really start that conversation and then listen to what they actually want and how they're struggling to make the difference between what federal subsidies will pay and how much that housing actually costs. I hope that was short enough. Thank you. I think of that a lot of the time, not all the time, but quite frequently, renters don't know when they're being treated unfairly. Certainly, if it's very clear, that's one thing, but a lot of the times they don't know their rights as tenants and what do you do if you feel like you're being treated unfairly and how do you know if that's the case. So I think something that is helpful in these cases and like Sharon said, I don't know the exact situation in this, but I think it's good, the more that we do around tenants' rights and helping folks and doing educational outreach so folks know prior to getting into these issues what their role is and what their rights are in these cases. Thank you. So I think going off of Jillian's answer, which I think was great, that if there are specific instances of people being victimized by the Burlington Housing Authority, which sounds terrible and shouldn't happen under any circumstances, they need a way to access the city and report that kind of behavior so we can hold the landlords who are committing these crimes against tenants accountable. And so I think we need to look at ways to open up pathways of communication so that these incidents can be reported in a way that can be tracked. So yeah, they can be taken care of in a way that makes sure the landlord is held accountable. Thank you. So this is something that I know is an issue and I know that that's the case because just this week I supported someone who was dealing with a situation around this and went with them and supported them at BHA and helped them with their situation. So this is something that I'm aware of and that I'm directly working with folks on and I'm happy to show up, but I think it's more than just that direct individual outreach. It's more about also making sure that there's a sense of inclusion of these folks because oftentimes they're forgotten in conversation. So one of the things that we're discussing in Burlington is that in advance of the passenger rail being restored, there's a need to store a train and one of the sites that we're thinking of storing that train is right below Burlington Housing Authority. And so wanting those tenants to know exactly what the impacts of that would be, I didn't want them to have to come all the way down to Pine Street. So as chair of transportation committee, I scheduled a meeting at BHA and then before that meeting, I went through BHA, the Riverside Apartments and knocked on every single door and let people know about that meeting and talked about what was going on there. So it's not just about the individual outreach, which is important, it's also making sure that you expand and reach out to people about issues that will impact their daily lives. Thank you. Burlington Housing Authority is a city entity. Its board is appointed by the city. I actually should know better whether it's the mayor or the council that appoints it. So I would start there with active commissioners. In my opinion, the board is too small. So I would advocate to expand it and certainly add tenant representation. And I'd really work at the board level. I can say there's been some leadership changes there. I do not know the new director, but I would certainly suggest that we, the city, organize with them and really focus on the new leadership and really expanding or filling out the board to be more inclusive. Thank you. So the BHA is one of the larger landlords in Ward 5. There's several apartment buildings. There's the Bob and Mill War Flames. There's apartments on Maple Street. And as I'm knocking those doors, we're hearing similar stories, fear of retaliation, fear of eviction for speaking out, problematic property managers that are asking things or not providing services because of whatever that system might be. And we have to remember that despite their role in the affordable housing situation, they are a landlord. And there is an incredible power dynamic there. So especially in these communities, it's often a feeling that an individual voice is not strong enough to take on this institution. So meeting these people where they are, explaining to them that the City Council is working for them and collectivizing them, making sure that they have a strong organizing in each of these buildings to show that, you know, you are not alone in this struggle. This is a collective thing. These issues are not stopping at your door. They're part of this system and we have to fight back against that injustice. So really meeting people where they are is an important thing. Thank you. Thanks very much. I want to expand on what Sarah had said. As far as the BHA Board, it is very small. It is the only Board that is actually appointed solely by the Mayor. The City Council does not vote on that. And for quite some time, and I've expressed this to two different Mayors, the Mayor that we have now and the one before him, that I think there is a problem with that, that we should have that, that the people that serve on that Board should be more reflective of the community. That's one thing. The other is that in actually, I've never heard the story that Max just told, but I was also in a similar situation of someone living in BHA housing who felt very powerless for a situation that had occurred in her apartment. And I did go with her to BHA to help her resolve that. We did resolve it, and I was glad that I helped her, but what I also realized was that without me, she probably wouldn't have gotten what she was looking for. And that is not right. Thank you. Sorry. So I think it would be important the question would be very specific about what you would do. It is important to go to my website, alijeng.com, A-L-I-D-I-E-N-G, to really see more about my stand around housing. But to this question, I am also the founder and manager of the Burlington School District Parents University, which is an educational program for parents of students in the Burlington School District. And I partnered with Vermont Legal Aid to come to the school and teach parents their rights in housing and many, many stuff. And also worked directly as a board member at CVOU. I brought so many parents holding their hands, bring them to CVOU to get their needs addressed and also met. Education and action is always what is required to serve the most vulnerable in our community. Thank you. Ali, I think you and I agree on this one. I think education and resources are critical for addressing something like this. And there are power dynamics that are not level. In order to level the playing field in a situation like this, I do think that you need to provide lower bearer access to legal representation as well as advocacy and victim support. You can do that in a few different ways, but I think it needs to be much like Ali was wise enough to do, is to bring that support to where people are at. Too often, in the five years of sitting on the city council, too often this room does not feel accessible to too many. And you need to get all the time out of city hall and out of the halls or chambers of authority and meet people where they are and educate them on how to find you as well. I do think that an expansion of the board would be wise, and we could also consider expanding the role and authority of our housing board overview. But absolutely, I think any city councilor should commit to doing that direct engagement because it is highly effective. I see some people, some tenants here tonight that I've helped over the last couple of years on things that have been very serious and things that are kind of squirrelly as well. And that sort of direct engagement is absolutely important. This is part of a larger systemic issue, obviously. And while I was door knocking on College Street, a few months ago, I talked to a tenant on College Street that said, they're landlord when their plumbing quit for whatever reason something happened. They had to shut off a valve to their main bathroom. Told them to go up the street and use the Waterman building facilities at UVM. And this was, I don't know, about a week and a half after they even tried to get in contact with this landlord. And they had to pay out of pocket to get their plumbing fixed. And they had no idea what to do. I mean, there's a lot of unanswered questions. So our tenants don't know their rights in general. And the rights that are currently in place are not strong enough than they need to be strengthened. So we need to hold our landlords accountable through a licensing system. And I think tenants need to be represented on every single board and commission in the city. That's just a fact. Hi, my name is Emily Reynolds. I am a member of the Burlington Tenants Union. And the struggles of homeless people was mentioned. And I want to emphasize that the Tenant Union stands in solidarity with all people struggling with homelessness. This union is your union. When we say tenants, we mean all people who are deprived of the human right to dignified housing, which they own and control. So I want to ask the council and people looking to become part of the council, what is your opinion on the right to camp and the statewide homeless bill that's being passed? All right, so we'll give 30 seconds. If you want to give a yes or a no, you support it or not, that also works too. So how about we start? We'll start down, down ward eight. Well, I do support, yeah. I support the bill, the state house. I also think that we do have, we do in the city now have a program in place, a policy in place that does allow folks to camp in our city. That was a long policy battle that was had in the public safety committee. It also involved a legal challenge by the ACLU, which I was very close to and worked on and just recently in the public safety committee, which I'd share, we've approved a policy that does create space for folks to camp without being bothered. Yeah, I think it is important also when we say homeless, they camping, but they camping where exactly. If it's a private property, I don't think it is right. But if it is a public property, I think it is important for them to let the city know we want to camp here. And if the city allows it, they have all the right to be there. But sometimes also there are issues around safety among people who are experiencing homelessness. And as member, former member of the public safety committee, we did brought up what we call the homelessness encampment policy. So we cannot also just come and say, oh, you have to get out here. No, there are restriction in which we have to approach the issue, giving them notices to get out and also making sure that they're belonging are not just thrown away. Thank you. All right. Thanks. I'll be quick. I do support the city's policy. First and foremost, I just want for people who want to camp to be safe. Thank you. I do support the right to camp. I think when we're looking at the cost of living in the city versus the available wages, you know, it's no surprise that people are struggling to find housing in the city. And I want to make one other point in regards to homelessness. Part of why I'm running while I was working for the city, there was a person that was empowered by city government who was ahead of a commission that I was a part of that was trying to further criminalize homelessness in this city. The fact that that is a reality in our city in the year 2020 is absolutely abhorrent to me that we as a forward thinking city are still having people that are empowered to have this viewpoint with such a connection to the powers that be in the city. So I'll just leave that at that. I do support the homeless bill of rights, which is being considered in the state house. I also feel we really need to, and I support over the city's policy and campaign, but beyond that, I think we've got a lot more work to do with our neighboring communities. Because someone ends up being homeless in the city of Burlington is really a function of a lack of housing in South Burlington and in Colchester and Monuski, and those folks are not, in my opinion, putting enough of a fair share into the resources we need on the homeless side. So I do support the right to camp. I think that we need to move towards a, continually fight any attempts to criminalize homelessness. I cut my teeth in sort of political organizing in the city, organizing against a sitting ban, where they were trying to ban sitting on the street, and these kinds of ridiculous things continue to be sort of the tools that people think will cleanse the downtown of things that they don't want to see or don't want to admit exist in our city. And so we have to keep an eye out for those things and resist those kinds of actions and those kinds of ideologies because that is absolutely disgusting and shameful. So I support the city's current policy on homelessness and I really think the focus should be on the safety of these individuals. But furthermore, I think we need to really put a lot of effort into finding the services that will help these people if the matter of homelessness and housing insecurity. I think Burlington has an incredible wealth of resources and incredible services available and we need to help sort of line the people who need the services and support up with the organizations that offer it. I do support the current bill in the house right now in regards to homelessness in the city of Burlington, though. I think that it's important that, as other folks have said, that we can't be criminalizing homelessness because homelessness more often than not is a result of the environment that you've been in and you can't control that. So we need to find places where city government can implement and kind of put itself in spots where we can fix the environment that has created this situation for so many people. Also support the right to camp and I think I'm going to give you one of your bingo words and say we need to go against NIMBYism, especially of homeowners who are afraid of their home value dropping if you put long-term shelters near their home which are also sorely needed. Thank you. I do support the right to camp and the policy also now protects people's belongings because I know many of you might have experienced a horrific, you know, taking apart an encampment and then discarding people's belongings but now they will be stored for a period of time and that's really important. All right, thank you. Hi. My name is Laura Mistretta and I just want to thank the Burlington Tenants Union for bringing this event and all the counselors who are here and candidates, thank you so much. And it's exciting to see that a conversation about tenants' rights, you know, goes beyond just housing because, and acknowledging it's a basic need but there are other basic needs impacting our tenants. So tonight my question is, you know, among some of our most vulnerable tenants are folks who are undocumented, not currently citizens or may look like other people who are not citizens. The No Mos Poli Migra campaign here in Burlington aims to close the four loopholes in Burlington's fair and impartial policing policy to no longer allow Burlington Police Department to discriminate in their policing and collaborate with ICE or Border Patrol at unnecessary times. So my question for everyone here is whether you're currently on the city council or vying to be on the city council, will you vote yes on the resolution provided by the No Mos Poli Migra campaign and migrant justice without accepting any amendments? Thank you. Alright, so let's start word four and then go to word eight and then go to one. Switch it up. Yes or no? I have not read the resolution in whole, so I cannot answer that without having read it. I do support a much stronger policing policy or fair and impartial policing policy. Going up, yeah, going up, going up. I do support the No Mos Poli Migra movement and as it is written, I think it is somewhat shameful that the issue was punted to Aftertown Meeting Day. I think that it's something, if we're talking about having a just city, that is the definition of justice. And I think it's also important to note that my opponent, who is actually not here tonight, I would like to know what his opinion is on this as well but it would be interesting to have folks ask him what his opinion is as well. Thank you. So thanks very much for asking that question. The answer is yes. I actually have read the resolution. The answer not only is yes, but I was approached about that, about this resolution and the entire issue months ago and was approached by two different people, both committed to them in writing as well as over the phone that yes, I will be supporting it. I'm sorry that it didn't come to the council at the last meeting, it should have, it's ready to go, but that's not my call, but I will be supporting it when it comes at our next meeting. Thanks for asking. Thank you. I am supportive, but at the same time I am also not a lawyer, but we also need to rely on the advices of our city attorney to make sure that everything that we pass in the city here is in accord with our constitution, with the state laws, right? But if it comes here, vetted by our city attorney, I definitely will support it. Thank you. I think I'll start just by saying if you hadn't seen the news or if you weren't here, there was really a powerful demonstration of folks that came on Monday in support of this idea and this resolution, and I just want to say thank you for them. If it was to be on the city, if it was on the agenda, on that Monday I would have voted yes, and I intend to vote yes on it, I believe it's March 9th is the date, and I've been supportive of this direction for months when I was approached months ago about the idea I was supportive and as it became more concrete and more concrete, I like the direction that it's going. I do think there may be some tweaks, I'm not sure if that's true or not, I'm seeing some nodding, but I intend to vote for what I would have on Monday as well. Thank you. Just going to remind council, candidates to please speak into the mic as closely as you can for the most part. I am extremely supportive of this. That's no doubt about that. I think that we can do more as a city, we can't call ourselves a forward-thinking progressive city. We had to have that demonstration, you know what I mean? That's sad and that's unfortunate that people are feeling so edged out of our community and so unprotected. I hope that we stand all of us in solidarity with them and work with them and hear them every step of the way and on March 9th everyone needs to be voting yes with no tweaks. Thank you. Now we'll go to Sharon and go back up. So I will be supporting the resolution. When it was incredible outreach, they educated every member of the city council and answered all questions and there were some, I had some asks about making some minor revisions, not to dilute it, but I had some questions about how things were phrased and the statement was that it really needed to be identical to what Winooski passed. It really needed to be the same resolution. I respect that and I intend to vote for, absolutely vote for it. Thank God Burlington is moving in the right direction as opposed to the way the US and the president is moving. But I am concerned if indeed, I don't ever want to mislead anyone, if indeed the city attorney says something to us that we can't do something, I'll have to consider that, but I will make my statement that the strength in this is to keep it the way it is. Exactly. Yes, I support it. I think it was one of my first social media posts when I started running last year. I also think that there's a little bit of a fear of how it aligns with federal policy and so on. I think there's plenty of other places where the city has said we'll do it now and ask for forgiveness later when it's not pro-social justice. So I think we can definitely do it when it is. Pretty short and sweet. Yes, I support it. I would have supported it if I was on council on Monday and I would, if I was councilor, I would support it. Yes, no problem. Thank you. If elected, I'll absolutely support it. I think it's an incredible movement and I was really inspired by the demonstration on Monday night. I wasn't able to be here, but I livestreamed it later that night and I just think it was great that the community, unfortunate that it had to happen, it was great that there was such support within the community. So I've been working on this for the last several months, working actually with the organizers. So not just live streaming, but actually showing up and working with organizers to pass a policy that is meaningful and that gives necessary protection to folks who are feeling really vulnerable right now. And so it's important to actually dig in and do the work when we see these social justice issues and show up. And I've done that and I will continue to do that. There's more work that we need to do to make sure that this policy passes legal scrutiny, but I'm prepared to do that work, collaborating with other progressive city counselors. So I think we can and we will pass a policy on March 9th. And I'm proud to support that policy, proud to have worked on it. And I just want to thank Migrant Justice for their leadership on this issue. If you don't know, Migrant Justice is one of the most unbelievable organizations going in Vermont. Thank you, Max. All right, let's move on to the next question. Hi, thank you to people who are running and all the counselors that took the time to come tonight. And thank you for the tenant union for having this. I have a question about policing. I am 43 and last year I was stopped for the first time and told that I matched the description. What are you going to do on disparity of policing in this city now that we have numbers that actually show it is a larger problem than we first thought? All right, let's start Ward 3 and work our way down 30 seconds. So, Max, do you want to start? And we'll work our way down the wards and then go back around. So, I've been one of the louder voices, honestly, on the city council for years, advocating for expanded community oversight in 2017. I supported a resolution advocating for us looking at a variety of different community oversight models and trying to take what we thought would be best from those models in order to expand the authority of the police commission. That resolution didn't pass and I think had it passed we might be in a very different place than we are today. So I think we need to continue to fight to expand community oversight. I'm prepared to do that and I've shown that continuously by, again, showing up to different meetings like the police commission going and asking for that additional meeting with the police commission chair and other police commissioners to really say that they don't have enough authority that we need to expand it. What are their ideas for expanding that authority? But then also really calling out back in behavior by police. I think it's important to call that out for what it is, which is, you know, just absolutely wrong. Thank you. We'll go this way. Towards me, towards me. So I think it is really terrible that people have had experiences like this with the police, you know, related to the stalking and the use of force that we've seen recently. We need to work on restoring trust between the public and the police force. I think it's really important that, you know, you see the police as like a sign of safety and not a sign of harm and whatever needs to be done, including, you know, increasing tenants' voices in the community or people's voices in the community or, you know, really expanding robust community policing, I think, you know, we need to move forward in this direction. Firstly, I just want to say thank you for sharing your experience and I'm sorry that you had to go through that. It's hard to how our police are acting and I think it goes back to how they're, sometimes it goes back to how they're trained and I think that we need to look at what Burlington is doing different than the state. If we look at all the police officers in the state, they're all trained at the Stame Academy, they all have the same training, but as all of you know, Burlington is not the same place as the rest of the state, both demographically and in many other ways as well. So I think we need to look at the policy and the training that goes on at the State Academy and see if that fits and is enough for citizens in Burlington and, I mean, clearly it's not enough, so what can we do more? Yeah, I would say it's, yes, also a factor of training, but more importantly, I think it's a question of citizen oversight and strengthening that oversight to hold members of the police force and the police force in general accountable. I do think I definitely feel safer in Burlington than I have in other cities. It's not a high bar and I think that we need to continue, and the only reason they are slightly better is because we have pushed them over years and we need to continue to do that pushing and again, raising the voices of people who actually are impacted by this and talking to our neighbors who are worried about, who have been stopped even when they were teenagers and told that they match descriptions in our community, not in New York City, in Burlington. Thank you. So, you know, we had a survey and it showed that we discriminated based on, there were more stops for people of color. So, one survey is not the end of it. Then, if we then educate and train, we have to resurvey to see are we getting better or do we need to use other tactics? I also believe that expansion of the responsibilities for the police commission, more community engagement and more review of policies to really address this are essential. Thank you. All right. We need an accountability centered police contract in this city and we need to focus on serious real reform and yes, education is a huge thing. Mark Hughes passionately spoke about this, very issue at one of the Word 1A NPAs a few weeks ago and he was livid because this was right after the Del Pozo incident. That was horrendous that that happened and that's just like a beacon for such systemic issues. So, you know, we even have a city north of us, Montreal. A lot of public safety officials don't even carry guns. That's how well trained they are. They don't even need to actually have that as that backup, which is amazing and we need to get to that point. Thank you. Thank you. With policing in the 21st century requires us to consistently be reviewing our policing policies, not reviewing them just when something happens and I think we learned that in a real way when there are a number of instances in our community that said, hey, we need to focus on this and I think we realized that we had not been sufficiently reviewing our policies in a consistent enough manner. You can go on a lot of different ways, a lot of different things need to be done to address this but I think it starts with, maybe not starts, but I think a critical component that isn't talked enough about is how we do recruitment. We need to be recruiting from a diverse pool of qualified applicants so that those who are being policed see themselves in those who are policing them in many times. I'm also really proud of the work that the 15 member special committee on policing was able to accomplish. I had a big hand in putting that committee together and just on Monday that report came forward from them and the public safety committee will be working on a work plan for those recommendations. Like policing in the 21st century should be something that we should not take lightly. It is very serious because the life of the people depend on it. The institution that are supposed to safeguard the safety and well-being of everyone, if they make mistake, I do believe that we need a deeper review of our policing policy and not just like policies that are like cosmetic justice around what happened. Things hurt, people are being hurt, and I think my focus personally is for the city of Burlington to have a great and wonderful police chief in the next year to come or soon. Thanks. I wanted to thank the person who spoke, and I appreciate very much your speaking your truth. It's not mine, but I feel as an elected official that I grow by you expressing what has happened to you, and as I said, I'm sorry that it has happened to you. We did get a report on Monday night with a lot of information. I think that it's important that we use that as a working document, not let it be shelved, and we do need greater oversight, greater citizen oversight. I did vote for all of the current members of the police commission, the three that came up recently, and I'm glad that I did. Thank you. Okay. Well, I think in our community it's important to recognize that it's no coincidence that some of the most recent use of forest cases have been people of color and people experiencing mental illness. I do not think that that's a coincidence, and I think we need to call that for what it is. So community oversight in regards to the true system that is our police force, in regards to the special working group on policing, from my understanding, the resolutions that came out of that were not truly able to dramatically change the system that we have because of the political nature of it. I would like to see a true oversight process that's apolitical. It's not from within the police force, as we saw with the oversight in the Del Pozo case. We need to have a review of our actual system from an outsider perspective that's able to really suggest some radical change to the way that we're actually doing police in the city. Thank you. I certainly would support more independent oversight, and it's clear from the incidents in the last number of months that that should happen. I am hopeful that the recruitment process for the new chief will truly get a lot of citizen input and scrutiny. I think the culture of a department really depends on its leaders, and we need to make sure that that happens and is reflective. Thank you. So right now it is 7.55. We do have the space till 8.30. So if everyone is all right sticking around until about 8.15 because we started a little late, we'll try to get through these questions. There's a lot of counselors here. So if you have a specific question for a specific counselor or your ward, please feel free to direct it towards them just so that we could try to answer more questions. Thank you. Hello, my name is Jack, and I am a UVM student. I have a basic question. Jack, can you speak into the mic a bit more? Hello, my name is Jack, and I am a UVM student, and I have a basic question regarding the weatherization of homes. Do you support mandatory rental weatherization that requires all rental properties to meet a baseline efficiency standard? All right, so just a quick yes or no. Sharon, we'll start with you and just go right down the list. You just want yes or no. Just a yes or no. Do you support it? Yes, no, maybe. It's really hard to say, yes, I support it. I'll leave it at that, okay? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes, but I wish there was rent control with it. Yes. It depends, but yes. We could do this one together. You want to do it together? Yes. Yes, absolutely. Wow, she beat me. Great. All right, next question. Thank you, and thank you to the Tenants Union for hosting. So I'll start by saying I would guess that all of you share similar goals for housing, that everyone has affordable, safe, quality housing. The disagreement comes with how to get there. So some of you do seem to be advocating for rent control and some forms that are pretty far-reaching. Nationally, economists have pretty unanimously agreed that in the long-run rent control harms the housing stock and hurts low-income residents. What are you seeing that I'm not or they're not? Thank you. We have like 15 minutes. That is a question. I think if we got through that, that's all we would get through. I would say that the Bruns and Tenants Union very much disagrees with that assessment, that there's been a lot of other studies done. I would wonder what they're seeing that the economists aren't. I'm happy to talk to you about it afterwards. A lot of those economists are fairly conservative and there's some new data that's come forward. If you want to ask whether they support rent control, I mean, we got to keep it to like a yes or no at this point. Yes, let's start with that. All right. Do you support rent control, yes or no? Maybe with exceptions starting from down there? Yes. What kind? There's so many different types of rent control policy. I'm not trying to be contrarian here, but there's many different ways of doing rent control and in some ways yes and in other ways that cause perverse outcomes. Obviously not. I think we should all agree to that. To the extent that landlords cannot just increase the price of rent whenever they want, to that extent, yes. Ali took the words out of my mouth. That's exactly what I would say. I think that it's a question of finding balance so that it works and does not have unintended consequences, but I am certainly open to that, yes. I would say the model that if we're moving forward with it, it's sort of vacancy control, so that it's not tied to tenure of residents. It's more tied to unit as well as including considerations so that apartments can't just be immediately transferred into condos. I think that it's part of the policy package moving forward, certainly. I think all of the options, vacancy control, rent control should be on the table and we need to study them. And like Councillor Pine said in his opening statement, we need to understand that that's in the environment of the state-enabling legislation and where do we put our political capital to keep the rents low? I'm done with market-driven solutions to solving housing problems and I think that we need to move towards a rent control model here in Burlington. I understand that that's going to be hard, but I think we need to build a social movement here of tenants. I went to the Tenants Summit and was inspired by what I saw there and by the energy there and I'm inspired by the Tenants Union and the power that you're building. We still have a long way to go, but I want to be part of that. I want to collaborate with you in ways that feel good to you and the folks that are working with you in order to enact those policies. Thank you. I would say largely it depends on the specifics of the proposal. I know in many forms we already have rent control in Burlington, but I would worry about some of the unintended effects of rent control writ large. Yeah, I'm open to the idea, but I don't know if it is the best option for the city, but absolutely open to it. A fan of vacancy control, although I don't know how much it will do in Burlington, considering our low vacancy rate, and then as a democratic socialist, I guess I want there to be expensive apartments that help subsidize or make free the cost of other apartments, so within limits rent control for low-income individuals and families. Thank you. So I had to, when answering this question on the survey, I did some research and found what the questioner raised, that it has unintended consequences. That's all I know. I'd need to look at it more. The idea is to stabilize it to keep the rents affordable, so I'm open to it, but once again, I'm not certain that is the right path, but it's one path. Thank you. Thank you. Next question. Hi. My name is Sally Short. I am the chair of the Committee on Legislative and Community Affairs for the UVM Student Government Association. I'm also a renter in Ward 1, and starting June 1st, I'll be a renter in Ward 8. For the past year or so, SGA has been looking into students' experiences in living off campus, and we have found that more often than not, students are being taken advantage of. Last fall, I attended the Tenant Summit with some other students, and we tried to bring up conversations about students' experiences as tenants, and honestly, we're met with a little bit of indifference about the subject. So I was wondering if elected what you will do to assist students as tenants and help empower them as they navigate this market. All right, that's another big question. We have gotten a lot of questions about UVM, so we got two more people who want to ask. Let's give it 20 seconds if you can do it. We will start Ward 7 and work our way downwards. Why not? Yes. So I think just today I had lunch with a reporter, UVM cynical, never heard of them before, but I had lunch with them today. And I think what is needed more for UVM students, and also for UVM, is how do we make sure that you even have more work to do for the city of Burlington? And I'm not talking about only for UVM to increase housing and all of that, but your engagement and involvement in the city to me, it's not seen yet. And it has potential for growth, and that's something that I'm really interested in, maybe case studies that you can do as part of your schooling to get credits for the city, instead of us asking for... Thank you, Ali. We'll go... Sure, we'll go that way. 20 seconds. There's a lock at the beginning. Well, I'll do this one. You know, we have this great data set now, because we rate all rental properties on a one to five scale rating, and I've been working on bringing that data to a lightweight, accessible mobile application. Full transparency is also work that I'm doing through my professional work, so I'm a little double dipping here. But nevertheless, this app will be able to bring to the surface the quality of housing for not just students, but any renters who are either entering the rental market or have been in the rental market. When you have more information literally at your fingertips with these crazy things, you can make better decisions, and again, level out that power dynamic between renters and landlord. Thank you. Bad landlord shouldn't have tenants. I think that that is a huge key to this, and this isn't going to change overnight. I think more information is absolutely a huge sector of it, but we need to be holding our landlords accountable and actually starting this transition. You know, UVM students are three times more wealthy than the average Burlingtonian, and Burlington residents are 5% to 8% more in poverty than a college student. So it's like there's that artificial inflation that's starting at UVM, and that goes back to holding UVM accountable and then that will bring down the downtown housing market. Thank you. Sharon? So I think I understood the question to be, can you just make a synopsis of that? Is it the affordability of housing? It's about, you know, it was pretty broad. It was about affordability. It was about UVM students not feeling heard about UVM student government trying to address these issues and not feeling like they were taken seriously. So okay, thank you for paraphrasing. So, you know, I'm a member of the Community Coalition and, you know, helping students transition from campus to off-campus and trying to find safe housing. One of the things that Councilor Roof referenced was the code rating of units. That's one thing, but one of the things we did and I know this is somewhat of a bad word, but I'd like to make it not a bad word. In the inclusionary zoning rewrite, one of the things that I worked for and got into that was that if off-campus housing is built, there will be inclusionary units, affordable units for students who are in need. So trying to match housing that is affordable for people who qualify for that and also trying to make housing a selection of housing safer. Thank you. Thank you. I think this definitely includes students and goes beyond students. So one, making sure that every landlord every year has to give every tenant a copy of their rights as approved by the city in a complete pamphlet that they can just hand to them. And then there was a second point that I had and I forgot it, so I will let it go. Of course, making sure that landlords who are performing badly over and over again no longer are allowed to rent. Sharon mentioned community coalition, which for those who don't know, is a group of students on campus as well as members of the neighborhoods near campus, as well as folks from city government, people from the code office, and sort of we come together and talk about the town-gown relationship and issues facing students in the city. I don't need to tell you this, Sally, but even today we were talking about this idea of that one-to-five rating and trying to figure out in which neighborhoods there are more of those that need to be checked out every one or two years, because they're not meeting the minimum requirements that they need to. I think when we're talking about minimum requirements, the requirements we have are minimal right now, and we need to also, we need to be raising those minimum requirements so that our students and everyone is getting what they deserve. I think a bad landlord is a bad landlord and they need to be held accountable. We need to beef up code enforcement and make sure that these units are of high quality for the students that live there. I think the second part to that question is making sure that UVM builds more on campus housing. I think the city needs to work with them in a collaborative way to build more on campus housing to alleviate the pressure that the students put on the downtown market. And if UVM is unwilling to work with us, I think we need to empower students like you, Sally, and like you, Jillian, to help grow the movement and lean on the university more. So I think that we need to not just build more housing again. It's not just about building more housing. It's about what the prices of that housing are, because if we just build more housing that's expensive and out of reach, that's not going to do much of anything to really solve the problem. So I think when we look at the housing MOU, that the city memorandum of understanding that the city has with the city, that we need to make sure that within that we bring up the issue of cost on campus, because I think that's a crucial one. The other piece of it is that I think we need to make sure that we educate students better about their rights. I think a lot of students do not know their rights. I think we also need to make sure that landlords are held accountable for fixing properties sooner and faster, and we need to make that public. So it's not just about this sort of code enforcement thing, but it's also about the rate at which they fix properties. Thank you. Thanks. I was a little unclear about a couple things. UVM tenants should not be different than any other tenant. A tenant is a tenant. We need to work on that. I've been very supportive in my statewide work of increasing landlord tenant education, so everyone does know their rights. I'm also aware there's been some conflicts between code enforcement and ordinances and getting it through court, and I'd like to understand where that disconnect is so that if there is code enforcement, it stands up in court. So I think there's often a division in between the university renters and renters at large in Burlington, but really where does that division come from? It comes from the price. And who is setting the price? The university is setting the price. It's $1,000 per person to share a room in university housing. That's an absolutely outrageous price, and that is negatively impacting our housing market at large. So I think that collectively we can do a lot better than the two divided sides of those two groups versus the landlords really. I think there's a lot of us on the city council who want to see the university build more housing either themselves or through a third party, but if it's too expensive and people can live in neighborhoods cheaper, that's where they're going to want to live. They need to make it attractive and affordable. I do agree that there needs to be much greater outreach and much greater education. One of my more prouder accomplishments on the city council was the creation of the five-star rating, the COC system, which was a resolution I wrote in 2012. However, even though we have come a long way, we still need to continue to raise the bar. Minimum housing standards are way too minimum, and we need to continually work to increase that. So if you're going to get five, you're going to earn it. Thank you. And if you're going to get a one, we're going to know who you are. Thank you. All right. We've got two more questions to finish off the evening. Hello, everybody. My name is Stephen Marshall. I work on behalf of the homeless community here in Burlington. I want to be really clear that the city policy, the quote, unquote, right to camp, that is not a right to camp policy. The city has not granted that any homeless person camping on city property has a right to be there. It has merely said that it won't bother people if nobody complains about them. So let's be really clear. We do not have a right to camp policy. And so when you answer the question, do you support a right to camp, you need to reconsider your answer in terms of this new information. I'm not going to ask you to answer it because I have another question. So there's been some tension in downtown recently because of homeless folks. You know what? Not homeless folks. Street people. Street people including people who have housing. Street people who are homeless, both. So we don't really know who they are, except that there's some aggressive hand handling and there's people eliminating waste in alleyways. My answer to this is because it is a disturbing business community a lot. It's very disturbing. So my answer to this is treat the people with dignity. Provide bathrooms. In the long term, in the long term brick and mortar bathrooms subsidized by a fund created from the money that businesses spend cleaning their own bathrooms to use so that everybody pays the same amount but everybody gets the benefit that they need. All the bathrooms get cleaned, taken care of. For the short term, the ad hoc committee on homelessness issues is proposing Portalettes in abundance. Now they've decided that they don't want to put it through the city council right away. They're not going to put it through the city agencies except to the absolute minimum that they can keep it. I want to know, do you support putting Portalettes around the city for the short term, which could mean a matter of years before the brick and mortar stuff is installed to accommodate homeless people, tourists, and members of the community? Yes or no question if you would like. It's going to be just a quick yes or no because we are running out of time. Do you support what Stephen said, the Portalettes and then brick and mortar? So we will start with you Sharon if that's alright and just go right down. People need bathrooms, yes. Yes. Yes. They need bathrooms that are accommodating and physically accessible and not just plastic boxes that can be pushed over. Yes I do. Yes. I don't, but I have other ideas but it's a yes or no, but I don't. Google crowd pleasers. They're Portalettes that are more built out better than just the boxes that I've been advocating these for a long time and I think we're moving closer to getting them. Yes of course. Wonderful, thank you. Alright the last question of the night. Thank you for everyone. Who has come out? Thank you for all the council candidates who have come and shared. Whenever you're ready. Hi, I'm Sarah Blakely. Thanks for having me. I work at the, I just started working at COTS about four months ago and I'm speaking not as a direct representative of COTS but as these are, my question is based on my experiences in my work in, or based on my experience in this work. I think I said that correctly. What do you see as the city's role in supporting victims of assault in the homeless encampments? Thanks. Alright, so we will try to keep it as brief as possible. Last question, we'll start Ward 8 and... Can you please re-ask the question, please? Should I say it again? Yes, please. What do you see as the city's role in supporting victims of assault in the homeless encampments? So how will the city support people who have been assaulted in homeless encampments? Alright, so we'll start. Started late? Good. I think you had to do it two ways. You had to first work on the prevention side and then in the unfortunate situations when it occurs, you need to work on the support side and have that support be trauma-informed. We have amazing service providers that work across botched homelessness but sexual assault, which I've been working on for many years, not just in the homeless community. We need to further invest in them and support them so that they can be working on outreach to prevent these things. Thank you. In those situations where they occur, we want to make sure that we are providing the trauma-informed support on the back end. Thank you. It is 8.18, so as brief as you could be, I know it's hard. So support, absolutely. And follow-up through someone's recovery is huge, too. But I also think that this, again, is a systemic issue with mental health versus in funding going towards those programs in the city. We need way more funding going towards addictions and recovery programs and we need to have facilities that are open 24-7 for folks that need to be utilizing them. Thank you. So to the first question, I think the city don't have a campman policy but the city has an encampment policy so that it's very clear. And I think to the last question, it is important that safety should come first whether it's in a camp or in an encampment. Thank you. Thank you. I think, as a few others have said, we do have a wide range of resources available in the city. It's oftentimes hard to navigate and I think that it is up to the city to provide resources and support for victims by encouraging them to by helping them to locate the organizations where they can get the most support for themselves. Thank you. I think that the city can do a number of things including continuing to have strong relationships with the organization such as COTS that are doing this work. I think another thing is that when we are giving support I think it is pretty important that we're not necessarily doing that through the police system. I think that there's a lot of stuff wrapped up in that kind of presence in this community so I think that we need to be really smart about how we're doing it perhaps through the community justice center or some other model. Thank you. Anybody who has been assaulted needs to be supported. Public safety is primary whether you're homeless or not homeless. The follow-up resources need to be funded. COTS need to be funded. That may not come all from the city of Burlington and so we need to be a strong advocate for making sure those community resources have the resources that they need for the follow-up work. Thank you. We need to prioritize and center the experiences and needs of the victim in these situations making sure that we talk with them about what they need to feel supported in these situations embracing a true restorative justice model for them and I mean that they don't want the police involved and I think that that's okay and I think that they need to really have their needs centered in this process. Thank you. I think the victim needs to have the support of the community and we need to help them line up with the services that we can provide for them whether it be legal recovery restorative justice and we just need to make it very clear because we have a lot of services that are going to be confusing to navigate and so I think we need to make it more clear where people have these access points to these services so they can get the help that they need. Thank you. I'll keep it short and sweet. The city council must believe and support survivors, period. Thank you. Yeah, I think that this is not like an area of expertise for me. I helped one street person make it to a new location after and I didn't know what to do. And yeah, it'd be definitely clarity. Probably is what I'm hearing from the council but would love to actually hear from people who know more about this. Thank you. Certainly as everyone said, no matter where the assault occurs you need to support the victim. I think in an encampment it's a little different because you don't have like walls and structures that keep you separate and protected so I do believe as others have said to find out how they want to be supported and get them the services they need. Wonderful. Thank you all so much for coming. Please give everyone here a round of applause. The councillors, the folks who spoke.