 Okay, all right, thanks all are welcome. This is the ward one NPA meeting on March 8. And we're going to have a slightly different agenda than we typically have in that we're not going to have a lot of prepared presentations. We're going to focus on speak out what people really are concerned about what has been or has not been addressed by yesterday's election. And hopefully will spark some good discussion. But to start our meeting off. We're going to go around as as we have typically with introductions and we're going to start here in the room. Hi, I'm Maya. Hi, I'm Maya Brandt. I live on North Street. And I'm the East District City Councilor until April 3. You're okay. So I'm going to pull it in tribute. I'm Samantha at I live at 20 chase street and I am more kind of newish residents to Burlington so happy to be here. So at 20 chase street. Yeah, moved here in June 2022. So we're just here to see what's going on. Right back to time. Thank you. I do. Richard Hilliard high growth court board one. Catherine for man and I live on North Street. Jonathan Chapel so cool. North Prospect Street and one of the steering committee members until we elect new string committee members, which will happen today. I'm Angie Chapel so cool. North Prospect Street. Send that microphone back. Okay. Happy all. North Prospect Street outgoing. Gary Golden. Old East and resident and the newly elected. East district school. Commissioner. Thank you. I'm Carol Livingston. I live on Calarco court and Ward one. And I'm on the steering committee with Jonathan and Tom. I'm on the steering committee with the district school. I'm on the steering committee with the district school. Zariah high tower. She her. Hildred drive. Ward one. City councilor. Nick Vaden. I live on Hildred. My name is Nick Vaden. I live on Hildred drive. Hi, Troy Hedrick. I live on 75 bill of new court. I'm also one of two state reps for this district. Hello, I'm from Jesse, Detroit. I'm from Noppe. Hey, all these 10 neighborhood coalition and Chase street. Hi, Sharon. Hi, good evening, Sharon busher East Avenue. Evan. Hi, Evan Knox East Avenue corner of university place. Flutcher. Hello. Sarah flash, excuse me off of East Avenue. And Sam. Oh yeah, I'm Tom Darenthal I forgot to introduce myself at the start of a meeting. So well again welcome and we have next announcements and Jonathan you have an announcement. What I want to announce is that the Fletcher free library is doing kind of a mini strategic planning session. And they're the library is very interested this is because the last one was done about five years ago and it's five year plan and we're kind of coming out of it right now. So rather than go through a big broad strategic planning activity the way it sometimes happens. The governor's thought it would be a good idea to at least have a community survey. And for people to just basically people talk about what they like about the library what they think the library can do, what are the needs in the community and so forth. You may all I'm kind of I'm kind of prejudice I think the library is the single strongest and most important institution in the city of Burlington. It serves. It serves everybody. It provides for everybody. It has a huge spectrum of opportunities that are that are available to the whole community. And anybody who doesn't believe me should just go into the main ringroom and sit there for four or six hours. And you'll see the entire city right there in your living. It's an amazing place. In any case, we have a survey, it's open into questions so it may be a little intimidating it's not just check the box, but I would love it. If you could fill this out if you filled it out during the meeting today. I can collect them if not you can bring to the library. And if you don't want to do it on paper. If your QR code ready, you can just click the QR code and do this online. So let me if I can just pass these out. And I really appreciate it. If you can, if you can fill this out, even if it's just one or two of them, it'll be very helpful to the library. We've made an endorsement for the library. Not to me. All right, I guess I, I think a couple years ago, I was a little bit skeptic of what our small town library could be like. What I found is that at least books that I'm interested in are almost always there. And the ones that aren't, you can talk to the staff and they've been very open about ordering books. So if there's something you want that isn't there, talk to somebody and there's a fair chance that they can add it to their collection. And I've had pretty good luck over the last year or so with that. And if not, there's interlibrary loan. So they can get books from all over the state. And one of the amazing things about the Fletcher library is that it is the largest lending library in the internal interlibrary loan service, the statewide service. And so it's great when we ask for something that somebody else can give us because ordinarily we're giving books to everybody else. Before we go any further, we have three people who just came in. Would you like to say hello. There's a right in front of you. There's a microphone. Thanks, Tom. I heard Monica here. Grove Street 60 Grove Street down the hill. Cross from Schemaska Park. I'm Cheryl Green. I live in Burlington co-housing off East Avenue. And I too asked the library to buy books from time to time and make donations a couple of times a year and it's a great library I think. Yeah, and I'm Peter Likowski and I live in the same place as Cheryl and I agree with everything she said. All right, that takes us back to announcements. Do we have announcements here in the room. I'm not seeing any hands up. How about online. Not seeing hands up there either. So we're going to proceed to our next item, which is the election of the steering committee. No, but we did pass bylaws last year. So we're making our group a little bit more formal. And you question. Oh, I'm going to turn it over to Jonathan for the elections. He's going to tell us the rules and then Gary's good. I think handle the actual election. So, so the bylaws state that that the steering committee can have up to seven people on it. We have your at our all time high right now for historic high of four should I say, and, and I believe all four current members are interested in continuing elections can be done individually elections can be done by a slate. I want to suggest that we take suggestions or nominations from the floor from the wall. And maybe put together one slate that we can all vote on at once, if there are and if there are more than seven people total then we can do it out. I would love that to be the case because it would be that much interest. So, I would like to start. I want to hand it over to Gary, who may start a slate nomination but absolutely. I don't know. I'm sorry. That's a fantastic question. So, the NPA is reformed back in Bernie Sanders mayoral days and the whole point was to create local venues for the community to get in touch with their officials. They're elected officials or administrators. And, and so in order for this to happen, there has to be a group of people who organizes the meetings find a place to stay, try to, or place to sit, try to get some food at every meeting. And make sure that the things that are interesting to the community are being dealt with any specific issues or problems, and that's the steering committee so what the steering committee really does is typically we meet once a month at the week after an NPA meeting. We try to set an agenda. We contact people who would be on. And try to and try to fill it all out. And that, you know, that's really the lion's share of the work is building the agenda for the meeting and then running the meeting so somebody has to facilitate. Somebody has to take minutes. What am I missing? Yeah, that's it. Okay, so that's that's essentially what the steering committee is it's it's actually very rewarding in a lot of ways because it gives just a little bit more opportunity to get connected, not only with the people who run the city, but your neighbors. And that's what, you know, that's what excites me about it Richard centuries. I did do it for centuries but the best way to describe the NPA that I've heard is the wonderful Jean Hopkins who many of you live close to and sometimes see on the wall or at our meetings and describe the NPA as being ward ones. Time meeting day every month. And I thought that that was a lovely way of expressing what we think we are. Thank you. That Richard I love that. So, can I hand it to Gary. So it's my pleasure on the behalf of the four existing members to put their names forward to, to serve again on the steering committee. Thank you by the way, Tom Darren Paul, Carol Livingston, Jonathan Chapel circle and Carter new beezer who's not able to be here tonight. We really don't need to vote on those as such. But are there other names that you would like to put forward to add to that list. I'm actually know one of the names I was going to put forward is on that. Well, that's not. Anyone else have would like to volunteer or open that to the, those who are calling in as well. This is, this is your chance. It's only one year. And you know you can quit anytime you want of course. Because because we have a minimum of three so you know it's like you can float back and forth. It's it. So, really, I'm just encouraging people if they want to do this many hands make work like you know that's your first meeting. Yeah, if you do sign up on leave I got to warn you that there's no separate. So with that, I think if we would like to gather something fun, just clap to thank these people for all the hard work they do and they're willing to serve again. Thank you very much. Was that our vote. Sorry, just a bit of a final I'm going to nominate, I'm going to move that we elect the state, the slate rather as stated by Gary to be the student for the next year. All in favor say aye. Any opposed. Thank you again to the four of you for being willing to serve again. All right, now we come to the fun part of our meeting I think. And that's speak out it's it's going to run for a long time compared to normal speakouts. And I'm just going to read what is in the agenda. Our goal is really to find out what are the issues that that we are you care about in word one. And what are the city issues that that matter most. Who would you like to see here, giving us information about perhaps a city operation or something like that or, you know, something about the city that you're concerned about. And what do you want city council to work on in the next year. So, and the last thing here is, are there ballot item outcomes you wish to discuss so all that stuff is is game for discussion tonight, and the floor is open so. Oh, Sharon, you're, you got your head up. I do. I do. So, when you were talking about the NPA. When I first got involved, and that was early on air heart preceded me he was definitely before me, but I came to the NPA. Just trying to figure it out like many of you are there tonight trying to figure out what's going on what is the NPA is this going to have value for me. But the format was different. It wasn't really an opportunity for the city to tell us about certain things. It was more an opportunity for all of Ward one residents that chose to come to kind of bring forward ideas and bring them. I mean this this city counselors came to those meetings but bring them up and have them percolate up to the Council for agenda items. So it was a grassroots effort of us getting together why am I telling you all of this not just to read relive history but this extended speak out really sparks something that I think we've lost and I'm hoping that the steering committee may be able to carve out maybe two or three times a year, a session somewhat like this, where you or some, or some residents could could tell you in advance maybe what they'd like to talk about a little more in depth. But I feel like there's such great value for something like this, just open dialogue, and maybe something will come out of it that we want to advance forward in a more formal way through a resolution, and maybe not. But in the conversation, nothing's lost because you get to know people better and you get to know what's on their mind so I just wanted to throw that out as something to consider in the future, as you look at the format for NPA agendas. And I'm going to wait and listen to what other people had to say about the election but before I stop talking I want to thank everybody who actually put in the effort to try to represent Ward 1. I'm in all capacities, and I want to congratulate those who are going to serve as school commissioner or city counselor or Ward clerk or whatever. You happen to win but I just want to thank everybody. It's a lot of work, and it's a lot of effort and everybody really cares about our ward and we're lucky to have them want to represent us so thank you. Yes. So my name is Catherine Catherine for man, and I was going to actually say exactly, or pretty much what Sharon said, I have so I've come to, I only come to about three or four meetings. The meeting that I came to, I had just had my neighbors broken into I was really uptight about the theft in the area and I spoke out about it. And I had actually had people follow me out the door and thank me for speaking about it and come to me. And then the next meeting I came to and I spoke out about it again and I had a totally opposite experience I felt that people stood up after I spoke and said shared a very different point of view than mine. And then I came to the next meeting and I kept my mouth closed and just listened. And I think I did that for the meeting after that as well. I guess what I want to say is that this election for me was probably the most thoughtful election that I've ever participated in I really thought through who I was going to vote for, and what I was going to vote for. And I feel that Burlington is just in this place of so much transition and change, and that a lot of care and thought needs to go into this time. And I, I, I felt that in the past few meetings, there was a very short time for speak out really in fact, I had to interrupt another part of the meeting in order to speak out the first time I came because I didn't know the protocol. But I'd like to see more time for speak out. I love this idea of this being like a little town meeting. Every time we come together and for us to share these different perspectives, so that we can be thoughtful, so that we can really move into this period of time, taking into consideration each other's point of views and working together. I feel really strongly about that and I want to come here and feel like I belong, and that I'm a part of this and that anyone, no matter what their perspective is a part of Burlington, and particularly Ward one. So I would encourage more speak out time. And then I also just wanted to say that I was so grateful for, for everyone that ran. And I think I just was, I, you know, it's hard to run and win and not win and all of that and I'm, I feel that maybe because I was so careful and thoughtful about this election. That's all I have to say. I don't want to talk too much but I just want to add to that which I think both general speak out and then so agreeing with the previous two speakers both general speak out and then I think sometimes and maybe I feel a little bit bad for city staff because sometimes really get it from all sides and I think it would be really nice if after the presentation there wasn't just time for Q&A and feedback but also like, at least like one presentation a month. There was no time for us to dig into that subject when it's still fresh on our minds after we've gotten that presentation to give maybe some more like more like something more constructive or as an NPA we say we actually think that like this is like more feedback or like bigger feedback or more specific feedback that we have you like through resolution not always but I think if one presentation can really be highlighted that we can really spend time on and dig into per meeting in addition to giving time for general speak out. I think that might feel like a more positive and constructive experience sometimes for some of the departments to get kind of a wholesome feedback. I could just comment so if we had, if someone's going to come and present on some subject, make sure that there's adequate. We typically have a small amount of time after that for questions and answers but you're saying that we should have the subject, and maybe questions and answers and then an extended period that goes a little bit further so that people can not just get clarification about what was presented but actually discuss it. Yeah, sorry, this is the adult learning person in me where it's like there's like different types of break because there's one where you just have like a reaction which is like positive negative then you have the or like, you're absorbing the information that you've got a positive negative but I almost want us to get to the decision making point, and that's not for every presentation but I feel like usually there's one presentation where we all have an opinion we all want to say something and we kind of just get to the we absorb the information in the positive negative and I kind of want us to get to the like the analytical or the like decision making point as a group. So I think whenever presentation like that comes up I don't know it is like a parking or like where there's one really big topic maybe we can spend a little bit more time on just that one presentation afterwards. Does that make we in defense I'm going to say that we the steering committee have painfully found out that it's so easy to overload a meeting where you say oh no they want to we're going to give them five minutes not 10 and then and then they take 25 and then it's the next guy and it just you know avalanches after that. But I hear what you're saying is right and I like that. I'm not so sure that there is a decision point. After every present presentation. It's like the, for example, parking is a good example because a lot of people feel very strongly about what we should do with parking. But when it's when the person's presenting and says well here's you know what the rules are. There, I'm not sure that there's a decision for us to make, but maybe what we can do is send back a message and say look, this is, this is not good enough or hey we like part a we don't like part whatever the case maybe something like that. Yeah, or even just saying. I mean, not necessarily for the official to hear this but just to say, you know it's really hard to park on my street. And just for to share that common experience or on the experience. Okay, that's good. Yeah, I'm sorry I don't want to be defensive as a steering person but it's also on some of it is, I feel like the department the department folks are given the directive by their leaders that they need to present to all the NPAs. You'll hear we hear from everybody because they've been required basically to get feedback from the community and we're it, which means we can sometimes get very packed meetings with something that sort of obligatory on the part of the staff. They're very patient with us, they we've given them time it gets rushed. And we've tried to think we also meet as an all words, which is people coming from steering committees of all the words in the city. Is there some way we can try to sort of tailor this so that for example, we have it just on tape, and they can go online and they can see these presentations or use front porch forum to suggest that we get some questions ahead of time because this is what's going to be presented. The presentations are not ones we asked for. There are ones that the city departments feel obliged to inform us about. So it's tricky and we want to help that happen but it's, I can't imagine giving five or six presentations which is what they have to do. So we need to work on that and I think we're really concerned about all of that. Plus, another role is. We do hear from people who are creating developments developments in our in our ward. And we're not quite sure what to do with that role. We don't sign off on anything we don't check it off and say yep sounds good nope doesn't sound good go back to the drawing board. And so we're looking to the city to also help us with that as well as just how what is our responsibility. And we're just, I'm just a resident, those lights sound really cool to me but I, you know, I don't really know. And so, at the same time one of the things that we've talked about and I'll stop. Is to ask the developers how does this fit into the housing plan for the city. And maybe that's true for a number of these presentations is how does it have an impact on Ward one. How does it fit into whatever our view is or our plan is for the city, rather than just these one offs that we get bumped every month. Thank you for listening to me. I see other hands. Richard. I would, I would endorse everything that's almond. Carol has said because it is very, very difficult and very, very tricky and most frequently elected officials are the most guilty parties of, if you give them two minutes, they'll take 20. Because they have an agenda so I'm going to go on to something completely different and talk about the election. And some of you know and some of you don't know that, although I've had a green card for about 35 years I'm not a citizen of the United States. And the only item on the election card that was successful that I think I would probably have voted against was non citizen voting. And I have a reason for that which I've spoken to city council about a couple of times and I go into that. If anyone's interested. Sing as I sing as I can and I've, I've been involved in the steering committee here for gosh the best part of 20 years up until about four years ago. And I've tried studiously not to get into anything political just be a god damn it man occasionally, when the truth is clearly not being spoken. But seeing as I might get the vote. I think I'll get political. And I would just say to, I'm sorry that Tim Doherty is not here, but I would just say to Tim, that I hope he would be on the city council. Look at the mayor and hold the mayor to account that this is not a mandate for him to continue his bullying and coercive practices of the last nine or 10 years, but more a repudiation of the regressive wing of the progressive party. And just do things together that will make Burlington a better place, a better economy, better for everyone that lives here better culturally and better housing. We can do it if everyone works together, but there needs to be a will to do it. So city council please do that. Thank you. comments, people online. I just wanted to I just wanted to say that Tim could not be here because he had to attend a funeral estate. So he planned to he isn't here because he had a family thing. Sure. I will have been the East District City Councilor for relatively brief time. But I do want everyone to know that everybody on city council is doing their absolute best for the city. You know, with everything they have and there, there has been a lot of talk about, you know, what people are doing and their positions on things and it's it's a lot of it is hyperbole. You know, everybody loves the city and people are working hard for it. So I just want everyone to know that and I am for for personal reasons. You know, I decided not to run for East District City Council again but I felt very strongly that I wanted to finish a term in which Ward one and Ward eight were missing a representative and having representation. I still believe, you know, it's so important. And this is such a great form for people to communicate. You know what's important, but it's got to be ongoing we have to get more people voting. I don't want to hear from people about Trinity, you know, this is ongoing and we cannot let it drop it, you know, if anything now is an important time to approach the university again, but I, you know, it's been an honor. It's not easy. And, but it's so worth it. It is really worthwhile. So thank you everybody for, you know, speak out. This is really, this is crucial for democracy. Thanks. Yeah, I want to thank all the city counselors, because my impression is is that it's a, it's your slave to that job. It's just it, you're inundated with emails you're, you're on committees you've got to report to and not. And of course city council, not every counselor has the same approach to making the city better. So, yeah, you deserve a lot of things. Sharon. Yes, I wanted to talk about the, the ballot item one of the ballot items that went down, which was the oversight committee. I'll be honest, I didn't support it in its format, but that doesn't mean I don't support it. I, I felt that it, I didn't, I didn't like this proposal I thought it was flawed that was my opinion. But I know that there has been all sorts of talk about the expansion of the police commission to be the oversight committee, I really don't know if that's the right thing. I felt that the conversation wasn't finished. And I'm just hoping that there will be, it won't just be. I want to, I want all of the counselors to, once again, just make sure that they get the right structure, and that the entity that's created or expanded has the right power, and has really holds police accountable. And so I feel that I know you heard this all I think over and over again, but I think it's really sincere that just because it went down, it doesn't suggest that our community doesn't want oversight for the police. And so I'm looking forward to having everybody get together and really bring forward a better proposal that isn't left to Montpelier to correct or, or make make make necessary changes. So, thank you so much for listening. I know Zariah you're the only one there that's going to be actually getting to take this up. But I really hope that this happens in a timely fashion and, and people don't drag their feet. Thank you. Thanks Sharon. Hi. I just want to speak to my respect for the city counselors to. And with all due respect. I think that you thought people were, when you're working on the city council, it's like being a slave. And I just think it's way too casual. The term I don't, it's nothing like being a slave. People are choosing the work. People are giving their all. And I'm just asking and that was a bad word to use. Yeah. Thank you. It just struck me in and I wanted to say that the thing meant to say it's just a lot of work and it's a lot of unanticipated work. Yes, people make demands of you that may be unreasonable. Yeah. Yeah. And lots of surprises that you'd never anticipate. And I also, the thing that I really appreciated to his amount of deep listening that happens by counselors and also her felt that during the campaign as well. I think people really are trying hard to listen to each other and that people we've put in office by our votes and their acceptance are listening deeply. I really appreciate it. And along those lines, I don't know if it's helpful for me and I to maybe also address some of the things that folks are saying and we can maybe just run into our time instead. If that's okay, which is I did want to speak to Sharon's point on the ballot item which on number seven which I think Jonathan even quoted me on front porch forum isn't what I would have written even though I did support it. But I do think I'm very hopeful, and maybe also just have to say because I think sometimes do folks do have this image of city council and that we're just always at loggerheads because the only thing that gets into the media that issues that are really contentious. And I think if you go to some of the committee meetings, you'll see that we really do have a tremendous amount of respect for each other and work really well together and I don't think that there's a counselor that I don't have respect for and I don't think there's one who doesn't have a tremendous amount of respect for me. But I do, I'm very hopeful that we will take this up that we can start I don't share and I don't know that it'll be feasible to have it be outside of the police commission I think I've become convinced that that's not as problematic as I thought it would be. We'd have to create another body, because you can't have both discipline and. What's that called. No, not policy. They're currently the body that reviews discipline, or you can appeal to the appeal body so you can't have the disciplinary body also be the appeal body. We'll have to make another body one way or another but yeah just I do feel confident that council will take that up I feel confident working with other counselors to make that happen hopefully in a short amount of time. I guess I just would add to because I'm the NPA got that hat on is what do you all need as attendees and residents from Zariah from Tim. We have people who know housing or no public safety or no, what questions do you have and what ways can we use our NPA meetings to have these presentations that will be helpful. You know that really because these are complicated issues and as a new city council person I think you're sort of flooded with all this information. So how can we inform one another, so that we're, we're better able to give Zariah and Tim feedback that's meaningful. You know to have Milo come and talk about the police commission and what they did and just the dynamics of what's happening in the city was really helpful. What more do you all want to help with that. You know I do think the housing panel that that Keith Pillsbury ran for us was part of the reason that seven days went ahead and did a housing series and because we played pretty prominently in those first few so we can make a difference it's just, we need to ask and we'll be glad to take it from there. Evan. Hey, how did you say it first time caller first time listener. So I am new to the neighborhood. My wife and our four kids we moved in over the summer. And I wasn't sure I was already in touch with Zariah and I was very impressed how quick it is for response I become from New York City and I'll just say it's completely the opposite. You're lucky if you could use an online system to get in touch with somebody at the board. Let alone city council and your state legislatures. So this is impressive. One of the things that I just wanted to find out I know this is a speak up which is really amazing and everything that everyone said, I could relate to not really disagree with much of it. But it would be interesting to find out how we could find out what, what we're supposed to think about. Right. So for instance, public safety was brought up. There's the police issue. I'm not super familiar with like the past, you know, two years, three years, five years, 10 years how things have been. What we see from, for instance, front page, front porch forum, some of the things that are happening. So what could be done for public safety, do we together get into, sorry for the background baby. What do we do as a community do we have neighborhood like community watches. Do we have to depend on just the police is their budget issues with the police that are preventing some of the safety issues. And then a second issue is, I see how many people on the audience. I found out about this event from front porch forum. I have a friend that had no clue about it he's on. He's on bill of the court I believe one block over for me. He's basically backdoor neighbors. He didn't know about it. He's not front, he's not on front porch forum. So what are we doing in terms of our ward to reach out to neighbors to let them know about these meetups and so on. Because I think that would be pretty awesome because he's really concerned about like the crosswalk that's going from the hospital to his block there's no stop, there's just a stop sign. There's no blinking light, not a stop sign like there is on our corner of East Ave and University Road. So people are just like really ignoring the crosswalks. I know I'm saying a lot I'm new so kind of nervous but and then there's other things too so I could I'm sure I could talk for hours. I was on a condo board so I really appreciate everybody that's on the steering committee to make sure that they're on the steering committee. So I would say for a condo board I feel like it's a thankless job it's a volunteer job. You but you know you want better for the community, but some people are too busy right so I would love to be more involved, but I have four children I can't leave everything to my wife so it's kind of complicated especially now like their bedtime and so. That being said, I would love to help, I would love to know more and I'm not saying this just coming from Zariah but as I believe Carol brought up, what would you like to know from us. I think it's what we don't know like we don't know what we don't know is the saying so what could we could we have I don't know if the steering committee would want to do that but I saw on the email some of the topics on the questions that you put out there. I'm not sure if everybody in the meeting is going to be able to do something about all those questions I know Zariah, just from her background, she's partly our voice, which is one part of it, and I know there's going to be many other people that need to be involved just to get something done. So yeah, I guess I'll end Zariah thank you again for responding to my email so quickly. And I guess I'll just say the email that I sent to Zariah was just about like housing, we wanted to know what the chances are of reducing square footage level so we could convert a single family into a duplex and so on so things like zoning but to help with housing could we live right across from the hospital, how could we offer part of our house for for nurses and so on, when we're not there. One of the questions that I have right now, as far as what we've been talking about is what's happening with Trinity campus. So my understanding was that it's already happened or it will happen. I don't know the sequence where the town's going to say no, in order to get a response from UVM. That's more responsible as far as housing, particularly juniors and seniors. Okay, so I understand that dynamic and I appreciate it but it also feels like it's a little bit of a stalemate and what is what is actually going to happen next as far as that. I think it is a pretty good way to describe it so the context is when Trinity and I've written a few posts about this but I only communicate on front porch forum which I could be better about trying to use other avenues, especially now that I get I feel like emails have trickled down since I started on city council every feel like year I get less which I shouldn't be happy about but I kind of am it makes it a lot easier to answer emails quickly. So about a year ago UVM presented Trinity campus initially. The city council said, we would need a stronger memorandum of understanding since then UVM let the memorandum of understanding lap so there isn't currently a memorandum of understanding with the city and the UVM. So they came to the in front of the city council again and we nearly unanimously voted to table the issue, and said at the meeting that we don't have enough information from UVM really to make a decision about if Trinity makes sense because without an agreement and knowing the impact and knowing what the plan is. We can't make a decision about what that looks like for Ward one and the wider city. They knew that was going to happen. I think they should have known it a year ago they definitely knew that it was coming before we had one on one conversations with them. And they basically said even before the meeting. If you won't let us build there, we just won't. And so that's, that's where we're at. That's where we're at right now. They're moving forward with building some things in South Burlington. I assume at some point they're going to have to come back to the city. I know the mayor is being proactive on reaching out to them especially after that meeting to say, you've gotten to know is there actually you know like there was I think it is at a stalemate and I, I mean I also said this in the, I think they got quoted and I do think it's a, I think it's a stalemate because they've come to, they've come to the table not as non negotiating I said we have a non-negotiable position we won't negotiate with you, which makes it really hard to move forward with anything so I think we've told them when you come to negotiate with the mayor. Then we can talk essentially so. Um, I would like to say personally to Zariah and publicly about Zariah that regarding this housing issue. There was an article in Vermont digger a week or two ago where Zariah seem to have gotten it exactly right. Where she said it's not the community against the students. It's not the community against the faculty. It's not the community. I mean, we're together in the city. It's that the, it's the UVM doesn't seem to be part of the conversation at all. They're not attuned to what the rest of us want no one do. And Zariah, you said it much more succinctly than I did, but I really appreciate how succinct it was, and how accurate about how the city is just that the university is just not showing up. It is not showing up. And that seems to have been a problem for quite a long time. They don't really interact with the city too much enough. I'd also like to say about housing. I think Troy, I read something about a proposal that you're making about getting the university to come to an agreement about how many more students they're going to allow on campus. And I appreciate the clarity of your, of your request there, because you're making it very clear, you know, you have some limits, we're meeting 5% here. And so I just want to commend our elected officials for the way they're speaking out in the community or our community against the powers that are not responsive enough to our community. Um, I can say more about this when, when my time shows up. I just I really want to punctuate that point that everybody, everybody. When is the last time the city council voted that unanimously on on anything right. And I want to focus on the students right now because I did talk to the students. To the degree that I could I went to an SGA meeting. I've since met with groups of students about about the bill it's h311. And I've lived in this community long time I've worked at UVM in a very student forward facing position for a long time so I feel I really have a pretty good historical kind of reading on the pulse of students. And they are equally engaged to the same, you know, from coming from the same point that everybody in this room, everybody in the city pretty much is coming to and the students are aligned with the realization that UVM has to become more accountable to the impact it has on the surrounding community. So I just really, really, really want to punctuate that that. You know, there's, there's a unification here that I that I think is rare. And I think that speaks volumes about how important this issue is when there's so much significant alignment on the need for you for the university to be a more willing participant in how their presence impacts our housing crisis and it is a housing crisis. It is absolutely a housing crisis. The second is the second lowest rental vacancy rate in the country, and Burlington is even further below the Vermont State average. And it's, it is simply not sustainable. And, and this is one piece of the puzzle. Right, we have to start looking and I think there's some legislation that's gathering some steam around zoning changes and looking at where we can build more high density housing. It's all going to be part of the conversation, but we've got to tap the break UVM has to tap the breaks while we have those conversations about what's going to work. It just seems like a no brainer to everybody who is asked the question so I'll say I can say more about it in a little bit. I just have to say when I was going door to door. Thank you Paul was down on Riverside Avenue. And I don't know what they're called I've heard people called them the 10 commandments or whatever they're the housing subsidized housing on the left hand side, going down Riverside towards boys and girls club. And then there's the brick subsidized housing which is I think the housing. Do you know what I'm talking about the. Is that Champlain housing trust on the right. Okay. And on the left is. So, no way. Can you clarify where you are. I'm on Riverside Avenue. Are you going to ask the prospect street. The health center. That's not Riverside Avenue. That's outstreet or Manhattan. All right, but not the ones on the right ones on the left, which have I, at least years ago, those were all very poor people a lot of new immigrants, living in those and when I was going door to door, almost every one of those kids was a UVM student. And I, you know, when I finished going the whole row I went. Are we really displacing. Isis for really, really poor people was students, I mean, somebody must have bought them or something I have no idea that I was really taken aback at that I thought, Oh my God. Any other comments. Yeah. You know, there's so many complex issues and something like Trinity is, it's pretty clear we are kind of aligned on that. But maybe there could be something like a Wikipedia page for the city with all these different issues. I found that being on city council, having to paraphrase complex issues was incredibly difficult. They sent drafts to people and they were like, that's way too long. But I also don't want to tell people how to think. And it is subjective information is, you know, they're, it's not totally objective and when we read something we have different opinions but to have important issues like the community control board Trinity. Many issues with policing to have the issues on some sort of accessible site with the possibility for input but synopsis I don't know if this is a possibility but with so many complex issues that that affect all of us. Some of these things, I was, I was amazed at how many different locations these, you know, this incredibly important information was existing, you know, you'd have to really, it was almost like a treasure hunt. So to have some location where this information is accessible, maybe it's a city site. But again, this idea of information, you know, is it biased that that would always come up to be have it be as objective as possible. Thanks. Yeah, I'm thinking about the university and the, and the whole question of bringing the university to the table, getting them to sit down and talk. I'm just curious about the way the way one relates to the university in other words, the city can sort of hold development hostage in a sense or I don't want to use two loaded terms but you know the whole question of just playing power the power to build or whatever. But I'm also thinking who is the university accountable to I mean legally who yeah that's the trial I figure would be able to answer this and and how how can get somebody from higher above say to the university, go to the table and sit down and talk to these people. So that's what the bill is trying to do. UVM is a charter of the General Assembly, and the General Assembly does have an obligation to make sure that UVM is fulfilling its. Well it's land grant mission, and I have a lot to say on whether or not UVM is strained from its land grant mission. Yeah, so ultimate accountability as to whether or not UVM is living up to that charter lands with the with the General Assembly, and I still don't think I right so it's not a question of. So, let me just do a very quick. This bill proposes kind of four things. One that we cap enrollment until we reach a healthier rental vacancy rate I've got it in the bill defined as 5%, which is nationally recognized as kind of a pretty good place to be. It states that UVM has to guarantee a minimum amount of square footage for every on campus student right now students living in a triple on average are sitting in about 65 square feet of living space. This bill states it has to be at least 93 square feet of living space which is half the square footage of the average size double room. And it states that any new buildings must first serve to decongest those triple rooms that are that they're currently using to manage the over enrollment is what I'll call it. And that any rooms that can't meet that square footage minimum have to be allocated to students with medically documented need for a single a single room. It's essentially guardrails right that if it were in place, I think the city council would have more flexibility to say look, you can't grow anyway go ahead and build your building right because because now it's it's statute. The other thing the assembly can do is to change the charter they could actually change the charter. This is a really, really heavy lift right so the question is in can the legislation do this it's should the legislation do this should the legislation step in, or is it an overreach for the legislation to be kind of messing with what is really a municipality and institution conflict. When we reached that stalemate and it was clear to I think everybody that that stalemate has been reached. That's when I said well, we have, I feel an obligation to go to the toolbox and that's what I did. I want to note that of the 11 Burlington representatives only five of us co sponsored it so there's, there is head scratching continually going on, even within the state reps from Burlington as to whether or not this is a legislative overreach. I think a few of them could probably be convinced that no it's not it's actually necessary. And, and then right we've got the board of trustees, and they're supposed to be guiding the direction of the university and the vision of the university. I certainly have my thoughts on where I think that vision and direction is headed. And I'm worried about it and that's mostly from the perspective of some who began work at UVM in 1996. And I feel we're straining from some really important core values that that have me concerned. But to the housing piece. Yeah, that that ultimately it's a it's a, it's a charter. Like any of the other charters. That's how we build cities that's how we built down to. I got a just a quick clarification question that how many, how many people on the board are legislators. I don't know the specific answer might be six, maybe. And what I'm hearing this is new to me what I'm hearing because we just elected the three that are going to join. I don't, I don't know that they have the, the cred that the other board members have right I think that that role was meant to do just this oversight the that the legislation would have somebody in the room to make sure that this is happening. I worry that it might not that oversight might not might not be in the room. I don't have a lot of evidence or anything to verify that's more more conjecture right now in opinion right now. You refer to UVM is a municipality. What a charter, much like municipalities I mean, yeah, it's a charter. What is technically, again, I'm naive about this UVM's relationship to the state of Vermont. So, the, the, the, the general assembly uses charters to create these entities that uses it right the. So that's why that's why this. So we just did all citizens voting that now has to go to the legislation to approve. Because for my Burlington was formed under a similar, I mean, it's a different charter but it's similar right legislation still has to decide whether, and that's why the one that got vetoed last year. Yeah, I didn't said yeah we're going to pass just cause eviction, it got to the state and it got vetoed by the governor. So there's still that that ultimate check in place but I think air her maybe wants to jump in. I don't know. Did you answer my question, I'm still not clear what a charter. Charter piece of legislation. Yeah, it creates the entity. The city exists only as allowed by the charter can only do things that the Vermont that the whatever that the Montt legislature says it can do. Same thing, to some extent with UVM where it is created by charter by the state legislature, and it can only do things that the charter says it can do. And then why would the legislature be challenged the idea of becoming involved in what's going on with UVM, if that's the case. I mean there's still kind of philosophically is this an overreach or, and you're going to hear UVM say we should be left to make our own decisions around enrollment. Right you're not telling, you're not telling zero gravity how many people they can employ and the answer to that as well. Zero gravity is not a charter UVM UVM is I want to let your heart going because he's probably got some history here. I mean I could specifically address this, but I think you guys have got it. I wanted to go on and say something else about about the university. If it is more clarification and municipalities are creatures of the state. And what the city of Burlington is, and is not allowed to do as a municipality without going back to the legislature that is stated in its charter the charter is, you know, you can get online. And it's, you know, it's, it's, it is the Constitution, so to speak, of the city of Burlington, and it is a constitution that can be amended by only ultimately by the legislature with approval of the governor. And there's a whole process, you know around it which involves like we had last year, like we just had yesterday. And it's brought by the residents to change that charter, and as Raya and throw saying, UVM is similarly a creature of the state in that what it is and is not allowed to do is based on that charter and in addition it is substantially funded by the state's annual appropriations process, which gets to one of the things I wanted to say. I think the relationship to the university of Vermont vice and vice versa is always a delicate balance I mean, and the foundation that we have to step back and realize is that the reason that we have many of the culture and other amenities that we have in the city in a city of only 43,000 people are doing a large part to the fact that we have these major institutions in the community. Are they good neighbors are they good corporate members that's, I think that's another issue but one of the other things we need to realize is what benefits does UVM bring to the city and there's no other city with 33,000 people that has sort of the cultural amenities and just the general amenities of a bulletin and in part that's the income and the wealth and some of the diversity that UVM brings to the city. The other point I wanted to make was that the university is unlike many other state institutions in other states is severely underfunded by the Vermont legislature. The state of Vermont has not a lot of capacity where a small state our population is the size of the district of Columbia, I Washington DC or Boston, and our budget is relatively small and our ability to sustain and support the University of Vermont is constricted in the time that I've lived here since I was a graduate student at UVM, the percentage of UVM's budget that is supplied by the state of Vermont through the annual appropriations process has shrunk unwaveringly I can't try to maybe cite the percentages but it's shrunk over 40 years and it could be seen by some as kind of a state embarrassment to call this a state university and to have it be funded as as low as the state of Vermont can fund it. What that's resulted in in my view is a business plan a business model that has required the University of Vermont to expand its student body and that's where kind of the rubber hits the road. And so they rely in large part on high tuition from wealthy out of state families for their for their students. We couldn't afford to send our son, if he had gotten into UVM to UVM under in state tuition because famously we have either the highest or one of the highest in state tuitions of a state university in the country. So, again, that's, you know, part of UVM's business model is that it needs to tap out of state students that come from, you know, the eastern sea board from wealthier major urban and suburban areas. And that is part of what, you know, has had its impact on on us. All of that said, the city has a number of mechanisms or I should say had at least one significant mechanism that I'm sharing can comment more specifically on this because I don't remember exactly when it was repealed. But when I was still on the city council back in the in the 80s and when Peter was there. There, there was a requirement in the city's zoning and planning law that required the University of Vermont to submit its campus master plan periodically to the city to the city and its planning commission for review. At some point that was repealed. And I was just looking at the UVM website. They, the UVM Board of Trustees, just in the fall of 2022 approved their first new comprehensive campus master plan since 2006. And incidentally, under that old master plan that has now been completed that was completed in the fall of 2022, UVM added 22 new buildings or additions made major renovations to another 22 structures and completed four major priority landscape projects, one of which was done in cooperation with the city, namely the redesign of university place. And that that was accomplished in what would that be 16 in 16 years, clearly and I Sharon may have maybe really familiar with the new master plan but I expect that over the next 15 years they will probably be planning on adding another 20 buildings. So, you know, given all of what UVM brings to Burlington, I still think it's incumbent upon the city council and the mayor, at some points to once again play hardball with them because they're making as much as they bring to Burlington they're making Burlington unlivable in certain in certain neighborhoods and their military prices for students are also driving prices in the housing in the city of in the city of Burlington landlords charge, based on what UVM charges for for for a room on on on campus and then as we've, you know, discussed a great length there. They just don't have sufficient housing for their for their students either. So in many ways they're driving the housing crisis in the in the city in the city of Burlington. Given that the University of Vermont is probably going to be coming to the city with approvals for new buildings. I think that's an opportunity that the city council needs to use to get UVM to the table and even before they bring in their next project I think the city council could reinstate the requirement in its zoning was that the University of Vermont submit its campus master plan to the city for its review and and and approval. I think that's a fairly simple step that the council could take that really will get their attention and help bring them back to the table sorry to go on at length but for what to say about this. I've got it just a general question and I know I'm supposed to be the moderator and it's hard not to interject but you think that the, the University of Vermont really feels that they're a part of the community or that they have allegiance to the state I get the financial piece I moved here, not perhaps long after you moved here and the number is 28% the state provided 28% of UVM's budget back in the early 80s. And now it's, it's less than 10 I think it's between six and 7%. So it's from that point of view, the dollar amounts probably gone up but the percentage has gone down it's about $40 million now. So they feel that they really have any responsibility to direct responsibility to the state, or to the city. Can I say something Tom. This is Sharon. I'm, unfortunately, I feel they don't I feel there's a disconnect I feel that Richard Kate doesn't really. He is he is true to his employer. And I just, I don't feel like they. Well, there's a disconnect, but actually, I spent a lot of time thinking that they just didn't understand, but I was wrong they understood they chose not to act on it because it wasn't in their best interest. They are about themselves. And, and that's just the fact but I wanted to say something about what Earhart was suggesting. And although I have some recall, I don't have perfect recall, but Earhart and for all that listened to what Earhart said, so much is absolutely factual but somewhere. The state changed the rules that as far as what Burlington can review in any proposed development that comes before us that UVM is about to undertake. And so it's limited review. So that has changed the dynamics and what we can say and what we can hold them accountable for. So Ryan may know more about about this. But I do know that that's true because you know I'm a junkie still following all these meetings. So that's that's troubling to me, because I don't believe we can, we don't have as much leverage there we can say no we won't allow we won't make a zoning amendment we can do that. But as far as when they come forward with a proposal if the zoning has been cleared, it's almost by right. And there's very limited review. And then the other piece you said something else about about accountability and I wanted to address that and it's escaped me now I'm sort of annoyed at myself that I can't remember. But, um, oh, my name is a master plan it's their most recent master plan. So their master plan I'm sorry their most recent master plan is is the master plan is not doesn't give the detail it is a land bank usage so as as the Council has seen and then if you've gone to any planning meetings, you'll see that there are colors and we saw it during Trinity, where this color is yellow and that's where they might put housing and this color is green where they're going to keep it open space and this color is red where it's going to be don't hold me to the colors but it's going to be administrative buildings or whatever. But it's no it doesn't really have the detail. The detail is kept close they hold their cards close. And that's very disappointing also. So it makes it really hard for us to really give good input because we really they don't disclose enough for us to give a good response to it. Anyways, thank you, Tom sorry for jumping in. I see no hands. We're sure. Yes, go ahead. So, Sam and I are new and we don't have much knowledge or experience to back up these grand systemic issues who certainly have opinions but we're not experienced, we're not experienced like the minds in this room. But what we do. What we would like to bring up is that we are willing to take action and affect material change. And since this is the Ward one meeting we'd like to focus on the Ward one issues things like sidewalks, crosswalks, lights, simple things that are kind of immediately help and improve the neighborhood and even things that can go a little further and improve the social cohesion of an area. And so this is kind of I guess just an open message to the city council and to other people that you know there's some younger people moving in lately I know Evans on the call as well. Sam and I are here and we're trying to connect with more younger people on our street. And we're all ready to like do things. So we're looking to help out some of these city departments I know all the city departments are stretched it's hard to find people to take the jobs to get things done. And we can sit and knock on their door and yell at them all day we need things done, and things do have to get done but there are some people that are willing to help and like do things. So that's kind of what I wanted to just throw in there is I know we have these great systemic things but just locally, we're ready to help ready to do things. Thanks for being the view and Evan for being the first timers who have the, the nurse to get up and say something. But yeah, Jules, Jules right we were personally and I guess I'll speak for Joel to. I would say that are the things that we would like to see focused on or have some sort of impact are just safety for pedestrians and cyclists it's. I mean, even coming here tonight. We had to we wrote on the sidewalk just because like six, six 30 rush hour is feels a little bit unsafe to go up called Chester. So, just personal experience and I know that there's grand schemes to, you know, continue the multi use path and have a complete street for called Chester. But yeah, some, if there's things that can be implemented into, like Joe was saying our ward our neighborhoods that we can directly see happen sooner rather than later and yeah we're willing to do things even if it is just like, give us the resources and we'll we can do it and we can build or we can put up a sign or you know we can. We're ready to get our hands dirty and kind of to what Richard right. He was saying earlier. We are like the way to get things done is to come together and like coming from. We came from Cleveland and moving here has has been so great and has just opened my eyes to the fact that we can enact change like this is of the size of the community in Burlington is ripe for things to happen and working together we can make things happen. And I'm just going to touch on the winter loot event. I personally felt very strongly to provide hospitality at the winter loot event and so I had made chili and we were we had the donuts and apple cider and everything and I think that one way that we can make people feel safe, we can hopefully make college students feel connected to their neighborhoods is to provide food and provide the sense that you have people around you. And I one thing that I thought was really great yesterday was seeing how all these town meetings had dinner before or like lunch throughout the day and I think that is fantastic and the fact that there you guys had the cake today and I know that you normally have dinner here that's something that personally to me feels so welcoming like food I think is just a really great way to reach out to people. And it doesn't even have to be food but I think just connecting to the people in your neighborhood in some way can just make some of these changes that need to happen or can happen. I think it will make it a little bit. I don't want to say easier but it will help bring people together to enact change. Yes. Thanks so it's really great segue for what I wanted to say, and I just wanted to bring up the idea of mutual aid and bring Jake Schuman into the room for a minute. So a few days ago I was working with many said hey do you want to do diaper distro with me. And I had no idea that there was such a thing. And I thought it must mean distribution yes that's true, but it's a whole operation in this city. And so, Jake had all these boxes of diapers that had been donated by companies in the back of his car in his truck and so we were over by his place and with one other person we were sorting these boxes and he had the names of people who'd signed up to be part of this and he had all these people. So we were doing the salmon run portion. And so we're going into salmon run with these boxes of diapers. And they're according to the woman's name and the size that you want so it happens once a month and you get 100 diapers of the size that you need or sizes. And this is incredible thing I'm suddenly finding myself knocking on doors and greeting people and children and, you know, here are your diapers, you know, it was, it was just, it was wonderful. And so there are other mutual aid, you know, food not bombs is a lot of food things that are happening in the city. And like you were mentioning. And it would be really interesting as an NPA to just to, you know, have a focus meeting on mutual aid and any different examples of it that we could bring and, you know, just, I think there's tremendous potential, you know, and it might even get some of those people into things like, you know, NPA meetings or, you know, dialogue in a new way or something when they have time. So that's what I want to say. I'm glad Cheryl got to speak for us. She had a way better idea than I did. Yeah, I think that's one of the, I think it's so I, we have such an amazing collection of mutual aid networks and that's a great thing to call out. We don't have an old East End mutual aid yet but we do have an old North End mutual aid that I know is active along with yeah, food based. I have a question actually, which I should know the answer to but I have no idea. Do we have funds that the NPA or the community can just use to do stuff like the amount of times that I've walked like up and down, we have on Hilda Drive which is kind of below Trinity campus. I don't want to go all the way around the only way to do it is to go through the woods, which is not a good path. And the amount of times I've been like, Oh, it'd be so cool if we just had a community project to connect that those two parts of our neighborhood again. And that's just one, but I've thought all the time I was like I'm not possibly taking on anything else but yeah I just wonder if there's like if the NP I feel like the NP has funds is there's stuff like that in the funds where people can run with it. A bad answer and a good answer. You're the bad answer first. From city council is $2,500 a year, and we spend a fair amount of that on rent to have meetings and on food. So it's not a real meaningful amount to do something that you're talking about, but there are groups that sponsored projects like that, and one of them is AARP, and I think they put up some amount of money and I can't tell you exactly how much for this winter lewd that was mentioned but they're the people that that put up the dollars to get that done and that included I think putting benches and Chimanska Park and things like that so it was probably in the thousands of dollars, but I 4,000. I think that's what it was. Okay, so it's so there's there are some places that where we can get that and in when I wear a different hat I was going to bring this up at a meeting that we're having next week and it's like, can our organ again a different organization can we get a someone who can investigate grants to do things that would make our organization even better. And I know I'm being sort of teasing about who that is but anyhow, the idea is that is that we as an NPA could do the same thing and say, look for grant money and say if we want to do this if we want to put in more lights for crossings, and we could get the financing for it maybe we could grease the skids and get the those things put in, or things of that nature. There used to be federal funds that were given out through the NPA. Oh that the CDBG money. When we first started it with there was block grant money. And that was one of the things that really got NPAs people to come because there was some money we could decide as a neighborhood. And I remember I was in, I was in Ward three in those days. And I remember one, one of the projects at the NPA when you talk about getting your hands dirty we planted trees. There were all the Elm trees that were down in those years of some years ago of course now there's most of those trees, who weren't vandalized or something or their big trees now. I was what I was thinking about was the question of looking up, looking for grants and so forth this is what CEDO has people who are really good at this. And I'm a little fuzzy thinking back so many decades but I think CEDO had a role in getting the NPAs and helping NPAs and some administrative ways and so forth and, and I wonder if we we could talk to through through the CEDO office if they, they could give us some advice and help and do research. So, I am, I'm from CEDO. This is as where the funds come through the Community Economic and Development Office of Burlington. I am the, I'm the NPA guy. I'm a part time worker. I'm also a student at UVM. So I come to all the meetings and I help out and make sure the agendas get posted and make sure minutes get posted and also just provide feedback. And the block grant question that was earlier is the NPAs do still have a role in it, but it's much more now you elect representatives every couple of years who then serve I think it's either a two or three year term, and they get used. So I think Ward 1 will probably coming up in the next year because it just it just got started again recently so I think that I think half the wards kind of had somebody elected and then the next half will happen next year. So yeah, I think it's two or three years. Yeah, if you have any of these kinds of questions, my email is S-A-M-U-E-L-H-E-I-N-R-I-C-H-S at Burlington-VT.gov. If anyone wants it, I can give it to them after the meeting as well. Yeah, the minutes, the minutes will have it as well. And I can try and do my best to help answer these questions. All of the all of the NPAs are really looking for ways that they can expand their reach right now. So it's really important to have these conversations and I'd love to be able to help anyone if they have these kinds of things. So yeah, that's that's what I can do for you. I was just wondering to picking up on your idea, Tom, about. Are there any business owners that live in Ward one that might be interested in making some kind of contribution to the betterment of the ward or any businesses, you know that are running out of people's homes that we don't even know about or I can't think of any right now. But. There's also a much bigger one and that's the hospital. That might hospital. Interesting. Alright, so change for all the ventilating systems and all those things that go on. The hospital is the biggest employer in the state. I'm pretty sure. I just, can I just add one more to that path specifically and I don't remember where I'm working at UVM. Technically 16 hours a week, but everything happens mostly on Mondays. So I kind of forget where I hear things. I don't know if it's UVM related in my UVM job, but I know that path has come up in UVM conversation not to say that maybe we want to leverage with UVM to fix the path because I, I don't know that they want to play ball at all. But I'm in a meeting on Monday with Joe Spidel, who is the liaison between UVM in the city. And I can ask him if there's if they have any plans for that. And all that is to say is whoops, I would just really like if. I know this is, I know the person who proves the budget, but like I would like it if, yeah, the NPAs did have some pocket of money that they could just use to, I think though it like beyond wanting the path to be done. I just want it to almost be a community project to do the path because that feels different than. Yeah, then like, yeah, being this like, oh, I want this thing to happen, even if UVM owns the land, it's like I don't, I want the community building they get our hands dirty and do something together aspect of, and I think I assume that there's other, I guess I'll bring this up in CDNR community development and neighborhood revitalization committee. There's pockets of money that we give to organizations and nonprofits to do this kind of work and I just think it would be nice if we made some of it more an empowering community. Opportunity as well. And that's the land where there was this huge land, sorry, huge land reclamation project right and drainage and, you know, I mean, it must have cost quite a few. Thousands of dollars if not hundreds. And did you VM do that. I don't know, because I assume at least some of it is private, I think partially private. Yeah, development. Sorry. No, no, no, no, no. We over time. But this is good. You're hard. So, I guess I'm sharing our sort of the fact of historical. We have the institutional knowledge I was actually on a planning commission when your development. So I was was approved and I have this vague recollection, and it may have been. I can't remember if it was for hill to drive or for salmon run, but we required some kind of path up onto Colchester Avenue from there it may have been salmon run I don't know if Sharon remembers this better than I do. Maybe it was for the drive, but yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, and I was just looking on the wide roads. So this would be a great project for going wide roads to work on. And just another historical note, back when the many assemblies did get CBG dollars which hard stop hard to see how to stop that because there are requirements around CBG and revenue come benefit and administratively it was also I think really difficult for CEDA to administer a lots of little tiny grants that the seven NPAs wound up giving to, you know, what they thought were good projects and some of them may never have come to fruition. So it, it became I think an administrative nightmare for for CEDA, but one of the things that a fellow who used to live on upper North Street and her bloom and fall. Some may remember her. Herb and I wrote a series of grants directly to the city to create the river walk which is down a lot. It starts at Salmon Hall. We got the accessible path from Riverside down, you know, the whole parking lot. There was a CDBG project. As was the little retaining wall where you overlook the river and then the path down to the river and to the actual Salmon Hole was a CDBG project. As was the entire river walk we did that over a series of number of years and, you know, tried to get it all the way to the interval but we we failed because there's a clay area that was just impossible but Yeah, it comes back up on interval on interval road just near the top of interval road. There's a little pocket park there and that's where the river walk comes back up. So that was all CDBG dollars that grants that Herb and I wrote and then, you know, was accomplished a lot of it with AmeriCorps VISTA volunteers. Unfortunately, I've again run over on time and I apologize. But I think we've had a good conversation. Yeah. Yeah. Here, but thanks just for clarification. Just a few years ago, every NPA was allocated $400 a year. Not very much my pretty much worthless. In the last couple years, it might have been you who raised it raised up to $2,500 per NPA and and that's a substantial amount more money when we before the divorce when words one and eight were together we had $5,000 and we actually one year formed a committee to try to allocate the money. But what we found at least a few years ago was that there was almost none of the enthusiasm that we're hearing in the room right now about ideas how to spend the money. And so, largely the money went on spent from from the East District for more than one day. It was, it was shameful, because it just goes back into the general funds and yes it helps the city but it doesn't help us. In the past year we, first of all, for the, for the first time, since COVID pre code, we had to start paying for space because medical center. This is a much better place. It's very cheap. But we also decided we'd spend a little more money on food. We can still assuming that the budget stays constant next year $2500. There's tremendous opportunities for us to spend money. The way they want to spend the money will still be people. The other thing I heard that just reminded me is, we have a request from her Blumenthal. Really? Yeah, it's $500. I mean it's $500. It's not a ton of money. $500 a year? No, no, it's a one shot. Sam, you might be able to check this for us, but her Blumenthal left us. And we haven't done, I don't think we've done anything with it and we need to find out what that is. We're pretty much out of time and I want to give Sophie a chance to speak. But let's not forget Estie Ireland, they have, they bear, they want a good place for their tenants to live and they are building new tenant homes next to that. I just went and asked her for money for the mural and she handed me $1500, but we have not gone to them as much as we could be going to them. Okay, thanks. Sharon. Yes. Yes, I was just going to say that to Zariah, that footpath that you talk about, times have changed, but there was a desire to create that. And there were some safety issues, but technology and engineering has changed, so go for it. I hope that you can do it because it was always a good idea. Anyways, that's number one and number two is that the monies that we talked about that Peter and Cheryl and Earhart are recalling are just like the projects that the new people that have just come want to get their hands dirty want to make a difference, to do something that impacts Ward one. There were dollars about five or $6000 that came to each ward, and they were CDBG dollars but they came with with restrictions and it had to benefit low and moderate income people. And sometimes we had projects that didn't meet that criteria. And so if that criteria is still there, we have to think long and hard how we make a project that really meets those needs for those that for those people that would benefit from them and would improve our ward also so I hope we could get back those discretionary funds I just think it really is the glue that holds the NPA together. They also had to be capital items didn't they Sharon. I'm sorry excuse me. They had to be capital items. I don't recall that might be right you might be right I don't recall Richard. I'm, I'm really, I gotta apologize but we're going to have to cut things short a little bit. Can we make this the topic of discussion next month, about how to what monies we have we can all sort of do a little research and see what historic monies could be around or be quests from people or community block grant dollar amounts or constraints and, and talk about what are what we'd like to do in our ward, maybe some ideas for projects, and we can take this to the next step. And along those lines I'd like to suggest that to help facilitate that to help facilitate that discussion that, you know via Sam that we invite Brian pine, the director of CEDO who's got all this history. You know Brian, not, hasn't just been director of CEDO for the last couple of years and for new folks CEDO stands for Community and Economic Development Office sorry. Got an acronym bust myself there. Brian actually worked for CEDO as their housing director throughout much of the 90s and into the odds and you know has a great has institutional memory, including around these kinds of funds so Sam if you could maybe if everyone agrees, if you could extend that would would would that be a good I would people like to have that for a agenda item for next time. Yes, and maybe. Go ahead. You know spring really is going to come and stay here for a little while. Would it be cool if we went and like walked or kind of explored together that path and that whole area between the back of Trinity campus and salmon run and the other one. Once the snow is gone. Yeah, yeah. And the mud, the mud is gone, you know, when we could go it could be a wildflower walk and, you know, but just kind of brainstorm together about possibilities. Yep. If you go back to the Trinity campus and walk towards the river at some point at some point down very steeply to Riverside Drive. There's one ravine behind salmon salmon run it comes up on your like Nash place or on the Trinity campus the other ravine comes up at the end of the held your driver being comes up at the end of Fletcher Fletcher place. We're going to we'll. Well, I can, I think I can describe it right after this meeting. But if so we'll the steering committee is going to meet I think next week, and we'll we'll figure out an agenda to that we should publish long before the meeting so people can comment about it. All right, and see how we can explore. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and we can bring our ideas together and I. Is right, we have a sort of run over the city council time. That is totally fine. Okay. But I don't want to go over the school commissioner time, because we. Yes, because we have among us a school commissioner who has served us. Mightily for six years. Six and a half. Because I took over. Well, it's my second time and we know these eyes are four years, and then this time six and a half because Kyle Dotson left in the middle of his term so I took over from August until that following March so it's six and a half years. And just for disclosures, I ran against her and she beat me I think three to one. You're the only person in the room not on camera. So you're going to speak to the camera you might want to stand up and walk here. Yeah. So Kathy what I really wanted to do was, you know, we, we buy a cake. I hope you enjoyed a piece of us. Thank you. I think I speak for everyone when I say that we've been well represented by you and we really appreciate all the effort you put forward. Personally, it's been, it's just been nice to meet you. We went out and had coffee once and talked about the pure enjoyable. Anyhow, well, thank you but also, I really want to thank everybody in Burlington for having passed the school budget. Last night, so that was, I mean it was a huge win we even more one and more seven so I think we won in all wards. It was a 68% yes, but yeah, yeah. Well, less than the bond. Yeah, but still, well, they're coming pretty close to one another. One pass like three to one. Yeah. But again, thank you very much. And you know, I also think that it's been great to have you come and give us some idea what's going on. For us who don't have kids, it's, we're really a pretty big step away from how the school works. I'm not leaving the district. I mean, the Lawrence, I'll be around you'll see me plenty. Well, thank you all too. And I think Troy, did you want to make some comments. Can I come up here? Yes. I'm going to, I'm going to start further away from anything specific. I just put out kind of bills that I think are worth watching. And that's on my blog on my on my website so if you just go to Troy Hedrick calm and click on the blog you'll see that's the most recent one. So I'm available on Twitter. I think it's just Troy Hedrick, you'll find me pretty easily. And I'm also reachable on Instagram, both Twitter and Instagram transitioned away from my personal account so if you go back far enough it's just gonna be all about my mustache. So I'm trying to transition it into a more legislative one but let me, let me just talk about where we are just so that everybody can kind of arrive to the same page. So let's get through the first of two sessions in this biennium. This session will wrap up mid May. And, and then we are about to hit the crossover date. So Friday the 17th is the deadline by which any policy bills crossover to the Senate. So they don't cross over they stay with the committee of jurisdiction through through the entire biennium so all of next session so even if things don't cross over by Friday, and share all your prison stuff that I just read your emails about, because I'm on that committee are probably not going to cross over the so there was a prison moratorium. There's a couple you can you can look at the list there's a couple of stuff, but I'll talk more about the women's prison here in a second. Just, just watch them anyway, they're there the whole time, and you can encourage the committee chairs to continue taking testimony and to continue pushing those into the next crossover for the next session. And then budget crossover is the following Friday on the 24th. I serve on the corrections and institutions committee. So that's what I know the most about. So any corrections policy comes through our committee, and any capital bill. So those are that that's the money the state approves to be bonded out for any capital construction any state on buildings. And I think the biggest kind of biggest piece of that capital bill is going to be the the women's prison, which is just down the road from us in South Burlington. And currently the capital bill has just designed money in it for this year, and then next year they've got a block of money set to start constructing a new facility and there is a lot of debate and talk going on about should we be starting the process of building new prisons in Vermont. Before we have a really good understanding of how we approach, while society in general to decrease the amount of people that would typically be incarcerated. I'm kind of right in the middle of those conversations and more than happy to talk at length with anybody who has thoughts on where you would like that direction to go I know where I stand philosophically myself but I represent everybody here so more than happy to have those conversations. A lot of great. There's a minimum wage bill and I don't know if that's going to get out this session, get out of the house this session. The affordable heat act is concurrent there's a bill in the house and a bill in the Senate so the likelihood of that seeing the governor's desk this session is pretty high. That's the other big one. I'm looking something and I don't like I may want to just the second one that involves forming a working group a very wonderfully diverse working group to look at alternatives to incarceration. Right, so that's going to be a policy, I don't think any prison policy just based on on my read on our chairs willingness to take those conversations up right now I don't think it's going to it's not going to leave the house it's not going to leave our committee before crossover. I, my job is to. So our chair has, she's a wonderful, wonderful historian she's been there for a long time and that's a really good thing because she brings so much knowledge and experience into the room. She's really in the capital bill got really complicated this year, because the governor shoved a bunch of one time money in there. There are unprecedented federal dollars in our budget right now that we have to leverage. Most of those federal dollars require, you know, 20% match from from the state budget so the capital bill is typically this is your bond rate and this is how much money you get to spend. Now there's an infusion of federal money into there from the general fund, and they did this complicated. They're creating a fund that relies more on cash than on bonds. So we're playing with that as well so I know Alice is nervous our chair representative Evans is nervous about getting all those working pieces sorted out by the budget cross where which is a 24 so she's in the budget right now. That's the long way of saying I don't think policy, prison policy is going to leave our committee before this Friday, the will of the 17th a week from this Friday. Yeah. If they are already starting to design. Yep. And once those wheels are right, that's going, there's almost no way to stop it. So, right. So let me, let me tell you where my, the one access point I have to to apply a break. And then you can all tell me how you want me to use that position. And I made the same very same point and there's I think there's a Vermont digger article that quoted myself and Michelle boss lawn rep rep boss lawn are kind of the two people in the room who are really concerned that we're stepping on to that very slippery and the way I phrased it. So we recently took testimony from the architects that are doing the design work okay. And we got to a point in the conversation and representative boss long was asking all those questions like, we are doing this we are doing this we are doing this we are doing this all that we all all to say that we're trying to decrease the number of people that we hold in incarceration. Why are we building such a huge facility down the road. And then I said like so 50 years ago. Right, there were people in that very same room at that very same chair that I'm sitting in right now saying, we're going to build prisons. And, and, and as it turns out that they had a terrible vision about what a person should look like and they're terribly inhumane. We're at the point now where we're recognizing that right and, and recognizing that we're at we're making the very same decisions we're about to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on new facilities. What, where is this hubris right now how do we know that we're not going to make the very same mistake that was made 50 years ago in hindsight. So I was asking those questions. Everybody. Yeah, right. And, and the question right now is the women's facility and they're calling it a reentry facility. And I'm not convinced personally that there's enough attention being paid to the reentry portion of that. And that's, you know, they don't have a site for it yet but everybody's looking at St. Albans. And it's, it's this sunken cost fallacy right we just spent $1 million on design, of course we're going to dig right of course we're going to start construction. So here's we're going to, we're going to set aside I think it's 1517 million dollars that set aside in the capital bill for FY 25. And then you're going to spend that year you build a women's facility and you say well of course we got to build a men's facility now. Right. I'm worried about that I'm incredibly worried about that. So, but I also know where where I'm one person on an 11 person committee. And I know where the allies are in the room and there's two of us. Maybe three. What's the name of the other person to do so Michelle boss line BOS hyphen l un. And the only evidence I can see consistently is that we are not doing incarceration well. We're in the midst of what's called the print study. This objective third party, we're one of I think five states that are doing the study and and the data coming out of there on the impact our facilities have on our corrections workers is horrendous. Fully 30% of them report having felt suicidal in the last month. Right. So a third of our corrections workers and their short staffed, and they're just being ground up. So there's plenty of evidence to indicate that we're not doing incarceration well and that we're hurting people in the process we're causing harm, not to mention the incarcerated. So I don't, I have a really hard time committing even let's call it $15 million in FY 25. When all indications are it's broken and we're not doing it well why would we build a new facility in the midst of that so that's my, that's my point where I can say, I'm more than willing to see the design because the designs not even finished yet right before I commit x million of dollar millions of dollars into into construction so that's where I can try to convince the rest of the committee that maybe we want to tap the brakes here. And can they not take that money and do a thorough study of what I mean, right. They're in Europe, and what many Scandinavian countries are doing, because if we have to incarcerate someone, then humanitarian and being more in the community than taken outside. And I can commit to being in the room and asking those questions. I am not currently optimistic that the committee is willing to pull those funds and the thing is we can always do a budget and adjustment next year, right and say, you know what, we like the design go ahead and start building but I don't know why we're committing money right now to construction when we haven't seen the design. The way the northern, you know the Scandinavian countries do. It's far cheaper than we're doing it too. I mean, it costs just, you know, a very small percentage of what we put out. Yeah, and go ahead. I think that the way that they do it, say in Germany, the whole philosophy of incarceration is completely different. And the way it is here. So the facilities that they build, sort of aligned with their philosophy. And here it's really just an isolation. Well, yeah. You were saying that they're not really calling it prison, they're calling it re-entry. So it's, go ahead, I'm sorry. Is there, if through this study we're showing up, you know, we're not doing incarceration correctly, whatever that truly means, but is there a way to then like take those dollars and truly make like a re-entry sort of facility instead where it's a little bit more into bringing those people back. Right, so there's a whole continuum of how people view what we should be doing, right? And the designs currently would have a facility that ranges from, you know, medium security people who we know are going to be incarcerated for a long time. Because of what they did was incredibly harmful, right? So those beds will continue to exist. And infirmary beds will continue to exist. And beds for people who remain incarcerated as they become older are going to exist. And then kind of steps down from there. So the model that everybody is looking at and talking about is the main model. Which, by all, I mean, I've seen the pictures. I haven't visited the facility. It looks much more humane than our South Burlington facility does. And it allows, as in this case it's a women's facility as well, it allows women as they're nearing the end of their sentence to be in a lesser, you know, free access in and out of the, to the outside, which is then fenced, of course. A lot more furloughs to work. So there's, there's models out there that people are excited about. And then, you know, ACLU will tell you that, well, it's still not great. It's still not humane. And then there are models of in community incarceration, where we build structures within the community that has access to circles of support that have access to job training that have access to. So there's a wide variety of people kind of weighing in on how we should, and then the Norway model and the German model. Yeah, this is all in the conversation. Vermont seems to be moving towards a version of that main model. That intends to build more humane facilities but bigger facilities and the argument that the Department of Corrections will give you is that we have to have more beds so that we have the flexibility if we have to shut a wing down for repairs. Right now we house roughly 100 Vermonters in Mississippi prison. That is a private prison, a for profit prison. So there's a lot of talk about what we would have to do to bring them back to Vermont. So all of that is in the mix. Step one is this women's reentry facility, which will be a combination of medium security all the way down to a more flexible living situation that gives access to all the things I just mentioned. And I can't remember I think it's 36 but no 136 beds or something I can't remember I'd have to look at my notes but yeah. And then, like I said on my blog there's a list of legislation that is moving. And I can, I can sit here and talk, and I can look it up on my phone. If anybody wants to talk but those are going to be more specific conversations so if you see the see anything that flags attention that you want my particular attention to be paid to. I'm going to continue to push the UVM thing. If you want direct action. The thing to do on that one is to call the chair or to email the chair of the of the Education Committee and say give this bill some attention. What that will do is allow me to introduce the bill on record. And then I mean it's already been picked up Vermont dig already did the story seven days did a story UVM did a story. And to keep that happening will kind of keep the pressure on UVM to realize that this isn't going away. Not given that time for introductory testimony. Not yet. No, no. And they I mean to be fair the Education Committee has school choice going on right now extending vouchers for meals for all students that's going on right now. Those are going to be high profile things that are going to try and meet crossover I think I doubt that this would meet crossover. Yeah. So once crossover happens then it's, then it's then you get to do a little deeper dive into some of these bills and if UVM is if the Trinity campus thing and or an enrollment cap is important to you. That's I think when those conversations would start gaining some traction. So companion bill on the Senate side. No. I am. We have a great ally Martin Gluck and the she she's ready for anything to show up there that I gave her. She's been a great ally. Yeah. And I've got a great relationship with Chittenden and I don't remember who's on on the Education Committee right and Martin is definitely on the Education Committee. Yeah. All right. And I've got a great relationship with Senator by Husky as well. Senator by Husky Tanya. Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She married my daughters. My daughter and her wife got married vacation in our backyard. Yeah. Thanks. My pleasure. I think. I think we're done folks. By acclamation, we're over. Sure. So, and this is speaking about all these big issues around incarceration and mentor hope for a moratorium on the building. Tomorrow in Callahan Park between four and six. There are a number of groups including free her Vermont food not cops people's kitchen cooperation Vermont people's network for land and liberation. They're meeting in the park and they're going to be speakers, talking to these issues. The headline speakers can be someone named Jim Ferdy Cox chambers junior. And here, why this man is against his family's investment in the militarization of police so it's also about, you know, the cop city situation. They're looking at construction outside of Atlanta is that right. So this is also in support of stopping cop city as well as our own issues around incarceration here. And he's going to talk about why we need to reprioritize funding for housing education and health care, and what workers can do to organize and resist. When is Callahan Park tomorrow from four to six. CCTV record. Oh, good. Wait, is it outside. Yeah, it's outside of the park. You just did outside all day. But we'll dress warm. Okay, so that keeps