 Everybody, tonight we're debating atheism versus Islam and we are starting right now. With Perfect Dawa's opening statement, thanks so much for being with us Perfect Dawa, the floor is all yours. Yes, thank you and hello to everybody. Thank you James. Islam or atheism, it is very easy to understand that humanity needs rules and boundaries. Unfortunately in the past, atheism caused a lot of bloodshed from slavery and different wars to forcing gladiators slaughtering each other in stadiums and crucifixion of people and many other barbaric practices. Humanity was living in a pure jungle with the jungle rules, but God didn't create us and leave us alone here without any help and guidance. So he sent us messengers to teach us what is right and what is wrong. Something that people didn't know by nature. It was through these messengers, like Jesus, peace be upon him, that Romans and Greeks gave up their stadiums where gladiators were slaughtering each other. Where was atheism to teach people love one another or love your neighbors as you love yourself? Matthew chapter 22 verse 39, nine. Love your neighbors as yourself. Korean teens 16 verse 14, let all that you do be done in love. Deuteronomy 15 verse 11, for there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you, you shall open wide your hand, sorry, your hand to your brother, to Nidhi and to the poor in your land. Proverbs 14 verse 31, whoever oppresses the poor shows content for their maker, but whoever is kind to the Nidhi honors God. Quran chapter 16 verse 90, indeed Allah orders justice and good conduct and giving to relatives and forbids immorality and bad conduct and oppression. He admonishes you that perhaps you will be reminded. Quran chapter 15 verse 85, indeed the hour is approaching. So pardon those who wrong you with most graceful pardon without revenge. Quran chapter five verse eight. Oh believers, stand firm for Allah and be true testimony. Do not let the hatred of people lead you to injustice. Be just, that is closer to righteousness and be mindful of Allah. Surely Allah is all aware of what you do. Where was atheism to stop Arab veterans from burying their daughters alive? Quran chapter 16 verse 58 and 59. And when one of them is informed of the birth of a female, his face become dark and he oppresses anger. He hides himself from the pool because of the oppressed, sorry, because of the supposed bad news he has received. Should he keep it in the humiliation or bury it in the ground? Evil indeed is their judgment. Quran chapter 81 verse eight and nine. And when baby girls buried alive are asked for what crime they were put to death. There are many examples on which problems God has solved throughout the history that has created this civilization we have today. But is it ideal world we are living in? Don't we have problems anymore? Definitely our problems are not like in the past, thanks God, but we still have a lot of problems and we need God to teach us how to solve them. Problems such as prostitution, drugs, corruption, war, human trafficking, robbery, and many, many more problems. Why we need God for solving our existing problems? Because according to Abrahamic religion, all problems have a single source, which is the Satan. I converted to Islam because Islam taught me that Satan is nothing but the capitalist system and by Allah's guidance we can live in a world where we share everything with each other and love one another. No poverty, no drugs, no prostitution and no problems at all because the source will be gone. Humanity has only two ways to choose. The right way or the wrong way. The wrong way is the way we are living today, which is the capitalist system or better to say a satanic system and the right way is equality according to Islam. That is why the Muslims are asked to face five times a day towards equality and ask God to show us the right way and reject the wrong way. What do I mean with facing equality is that when we visit Mecca we all have to dress equal so that no one is rich or poor. That is how God wants us to see us everywhere on this planet, not only in Mecca. If we choose atheism we always have to live in this modern jungle where the strongest get the most and the weakest get the little or nothing and we always live with all problems we are facing today. So if we choose to live in this satanic system then we don't need God because this satanic system is run by our animal nature. But if we choose to live in a world where everyone is equal and everyone loves one another then we need Allah and His final command which is march towards equality. All right, that was all I said. You got it. Thank you very much for that opening statement. With that, I wanna let you know folks, if it's your first time here at Modern Day Debate we are a neutral channel hosting debates on science, religion and politics. We hope you feel welcome no matter what walk of life you are from and we've also got to tell you as you can see at the bottom right of your screen we have many upcoming debates this weekend. T-Jump versus newcomer Taylor as she defends intelligent design. You don't wanna miss it, hit that subscribe button so you don't miss out on future debates and with that, thanks so much AP. The floor is all yours for your opening as well. Thank you so much. I don't really know how much time each of one of us has honestly, but I'll just go. So all we heard was jungle, jungle, jungle. Atheism has no rules, Islam solves all the problems. I just don't understand. I don't see it. Now, Perfect Dawa or Muji here mentioned a few things like atheism brought us what slavery and gladiators mercilessly killing each other, crucifixion and things like that. How did atheism bring you that? So how is atheism responsible for that? How is atheism supposed to solve that problem? Atheism is not supposed to solve any such problem. Atheism is just the lack of belief in a divine being and in a religion and an organized religion that claims to be following the laws of a supernatural being. The atrocities as you see them that were brought in the past were brought by different cultures in their various beliefs. The Romans, for example, were entertained by this and they thought that they could put humans who are strong, but who are subservient to better use and let them serve as entertainers, as gladiators who kill each other. Atheism is not supposed to come in and solve that problem. This is a societal issue and people need to recognize that issue and move on from that through atheism or through other means. Atheism doesn't have a religious book, a book of laws, a book of doctrines and beliefs that you have to stick to and which are inefficient in solving this problem. No, an atheist can be somebody who is a communist who wants to apply state atheism as we have seen in the past, can be somebody who is entirely secular, can be an anti-theist against religion, can embrace religion. And atheism can go into all kinds of different beliefs and directions and political ideas. What Muji needs to understand here is that atheism does not equal a lack of rules. Atheism equals a lack of belief in one God. So atheism can be employed in terms of belief in God while you come together as a society and figure out what is best for the society and then make a loss accordingly. Now that we have that misunderstanding out of the way, he talked about justice. Justice is relative. Now, Muji says that there is justice in Islam. He says he cites certain Quran verses which say that Allah is just and he wants you to be just. Well, I'm sorry, justice alone doesn't mean anything. It is entirely relative. The word has no meaning if you don't present anything in order to demonstrate what exactly it is. I can say, hey guys, let's be just. I love justice. I am such a huge fan of justice. I am here to bring justice. Okay, but what exactly does that mean? It doesn't mean anything at all. If I cannot demonstrate what I mean by justice, what loss, what rewards, what repercussions, whatever it is that I understand from justice. When the Quran says be just, that doesn't mean anything. The Quran might believe that it is okay to kill every single human being in the world and may believe that that is just and you cannot oppose that. You cannot say, hey, that is not justice because that is justice according to the Quran. So when you say the Quran is just, Islam is just, that is entirely meaningless. And we know for a fact that Islam brings things like, I don't know, slavery, animosity, oppression, inequality, and these things are just according to Islam. According to your fellow Muslim apologists who are more honest to their Islamic beliefs, I should be punished with death, for example, for my apostasy and my outspoken opposition to Islam. And that according to them is justice. And they think that is the ultimate justice. They are so just. Is that justice according to you too, Muji? Is that justice according to me? Definitely not. You mentioned female infanticide. People killed their children in the past. Islam somehow came to solve that problem. Yeah, female infanticide is something that happened in the past because people looked for how to survive and how to save themselves from the struggles in life. And they thought having a girl will not do anything for them. They will just suffer more. Totally misguided and terrible belief. If you look at it now, but what did Islam do? Islam came and said, hey, guys, don't bury your girls. No, marry them instead. Yeah, marry them as little children instead. Make them, don't bury your girls, marry them instead. Don't bury your girls, have intercourse with them instead. I don't want to go too deep into this because it will make this stream too problematic, which is very normal since we're talking about Islam. Now you mentioned lots of problems in the world. How did Islam solve those problems? Did it solve the problem of slavery? No, Islam had the biggest slave trade, the longest lasting slave trade in history, the Arab slave trade or the Islamic slave trade, the Berber slave trade, whatever it is, the African slave trade. Muslims ran the greatest slave trade which started long before the transatlantic slave trade and ended only after the transatlantic slave trade in some parts of the Muslim world that is still ongoing. Did it stop wars? No, it was expansionist. Did it stop oppression? No, it oppressed people. It was unequal. It fuels animosity. It teaches that the Muslim and non-Muslim are not equal to each other. The Quran says that those who disbelieve are the worst of creatures. They are not equal to Muslims and so on. In Islam, you are not equal. In Islam, Muslims are equal to each other. You are not equal to the rest of the world. That is not equality. That is not a solution to all these problems. I don't understand the whole premise here anyway. We're talking about Islam versus atheism. How are we supposed to come to the conclusion what is better or what is the right thing? Just by what seemingly works, shouldn't there be a truth behind Islam? Shouldn't Islam be true and real about its truth claims before we adopted as the perfect solution to the world? Should atheism not be demonstrated as false and Islam be demonstrated as true? As far as I see it, I have no reason at all to believe in Islam. It is completely false. It is a ridiculous religion which brings beliefs in a flying horse that Muhammad flew on, a weird tribe called Gog and Magog that will flood the world and drink lakes dry and lots of other nonsensical things. It's theological beliefs are nonsense. The Quran is a terrible book that most of themselves are too lazy to read because it's just not fun. It's a horribly repetitive book that goes by no proper structure. As long as you cannot demonstrate to me a reason why I should not believe in God, I think atheism is the only answer that I have. And within my atheist framework, if you want to have it so, I can develop different ways of looking at the world and solving different problems, solving the suffering in the world, looking for a better way out of this jungle which does not require me to follow an Islam that, as you presented, is not even clear. Nobody knows what your Islam is. Nobody knows what your Islam brings. Nobody knows what the justice that you're talking about is. Your premise here and your argument, what you are proposing is entirely incoherent. First, you should clarify what exactly it is that you call Islam. How do you demonstrate its justice? Go ahead and do it that please. That is all I want to say. Thank you. You guys, thank you very much for that opening statement. And my dear friends, we're going to jump into the open conversation. Want to say, if you enjoy these debates, you probably have a friend who also enjoys these debates and great opportunity. If you click the share button below, you can share this debate with them and enjoy it together or say, oh man, I thought this side's arguments were good in this way or that way or bad in this way or that way. Whatever you want, that share button is below. And with that, we're going to jump into open conversation. Thanks very much, AP and Perfect Dawa. Thrilled to have you. The floor is all yours. All right. Thank you very much. And there were a lot of things that AP said. Atheism doesn't solve problems, he said. Of course, I know that. That's why I was saying in the opening statement that God sent us prophets and through these prophets, he told us that these problems have to be solved by different verses of Quran to be just and so on to feed the poor. So you said, AP said, tell me what is just? Just is, of course, is equality. As I said, it is not just that some people have billions of dollars and they sell drugs, tobacco, weapons and everything to become richer and they kill millions of people. That's not just, okay? How should Islam deal with that problem? Okay, I told you that Islam deal with that problem by getting rid of this opportunity that they become how I said equality, okay? Get rid of the system that allows you to gather, okay? I told you, you know that how you sell weapons, okay? Or you sell cigarettes, all right? And make billions of dollars and put them in the bank or whatever, all right? That's called capitalism, okay? So you have this opportunity to kill people and make billions of dollars. The solution is that you don't have this opportunity. It is very simple, AP, that it's like that, you know, children are playing on the floor and there are several knives there and you just say, don't play with those knives, you can cut yourself. The solution is to remove those knives, they will not cut themselves, okay? Okay, I have two questions for you. I'm still asking you, how are you going to solve this problem? How is your Islam supposed to solve this problem? Don't tell me what the problem is. Don't tell me that you need to get rid of the problem. Tell me, how exactly do you imagine your Islam? And this is not Islam, by the way, this is your Islam. Your Islam solves this problem. Okay, first of all, it's not my Islam. This is, I told you that I have said in the past. Yeah, you have five, six more friends who also have the same business. No, there are millions of people, okay? There are millions of people who believe in that, okay? So, and then I will come to that as well. Who are they, okay? Anyway, how Islam is going to solve that problem I said that when you cannot sell the cigarettes, okay? All these tobacco companies, they will close down because they are not going to produce cigarette and give it for free. We heard that many times. How is your Islam supposed to solve that problem? If people want to sell cigarettes, what is your Islam supposed to do? Are you going to, you know, gather them and punish them and... Of course not, that's, you know, AP. That's your understanding and ISIS and Taliban, they think that things can be solved by punishment, okay? I told you to remove the opportunity to remove the knife, okay? So when they cannot sell it, you can produce it. You can give it for free. Farmers of Afghanistan, they produce 90% of the total opium of the war because it gives them more money than potatoes and tomatoes. Tell me... I'm still asking you a very simple question. How do you prevent people from producing and selling cigarettes? I said, I don't know which other language I have to tell you that. When you cannot... Equality means that to get rid of this capitalist system that gives you the opportunity to sell opium, hundreds of dollars per kilo, okay? Because it gives you more money than potatoes and tomatoes. So that's why Afghans, farmers, they go for opium instead of potatoes and tomatoes. So you want to make it impossible for people to sell it. How do you do that? To get rid of the money. Is it difficult to share? AP, AP, is it difficult for you to understand that if you get rid of the system, that people share everything with each other, okay, love one another? Yes, that's not how people function. You're basically arguing for communism, not for Islam. So the thing is, how are you supposed to implement that? I am still telling you a very simple thing and asking you a very simple question. Even if you say we get rid of all of this, there will still be in corners of the world, in big parts of the world, people who will plant that stuff, gather that stuff and then sell it to each other. Because some people have more... You're so sad. Okay, okay, look, listen to me. Some people have more than others. So some people want to take advantage of the situation and then give to others and get something in return. That's what selling is. How do you want to prevent people from doing that transaction? Okay, so you mean that people can gather, for example, hundreds of houses? Yeah? Hundreds of tobacco or cigarettes, whatever it is, they gather it and then they trade it. How do you prevent them from trading? I tell you that. Trade is in a system that you can, you know, for example, you can buy hundreds of houses and then rent it out or sell it, okay? So I think it's very difficult for you to understand this solution, that when you cannot, then it's not possible. Money doesn't exist, okay? You cannot gather hundreds of houses. Because you cannot buy. Oh my God, I'm asking you a very simple question. How do you make it impossible for people to trade things? I don't care if it's possible or not in your ideal fantasy world. How do you prevent people from gathering and trading things? It doesn't matter if you abolish money, they will still trade. How do you prevent it? How do you enforce this? Yes, sir. I'm not going to enforce it and that's why no impulsion in religion is in Koran. There is no force in religion, okay? I'm not going to enforce it. I say that if you cannot sell it, okay? If you cannot sell, money doesn't exist. So how you are going to sell weapons? How tell me how you are going to sell weapons? Money doesn't exist. Do you think money fell from the sky? People invented money because people invented different ways of trading goods and eventually came up with the idea of creating a currency instead of just trading things against each other. If you don't enforce your way of preventing this, then people will find ways of doing this, which is why your beloved communist regimes, for example, took their iron hands and fists and enforced this in brutal ways. How is your system supposed to do that? This is, that's why is to believe in God and his religion. That's why we stand towards the equality five times a day and we ask God to show me the right way, okay? So God wants us to live in that equal world, okay? And we have to make people to understand it, to adopt it, okay? Not by force, by talking to them, by spreading the message that God wants us to live like human beings. And as long as we live in this jungle, we will have problems, okay? We have wars, we have this nuclear bomb over us, okay? That's very nice, that's very cool, but I wonder why this debate is titled atheism versus Islam instead of atheism versus communism. What exactly are you arguing here? Okay, let me see. Okay, you say communism, okay. Of course, definitely communism has some common understanding as well, I'm not denying it, but this is the problem that most Muslims don't understand it, 1400 years, they're standing towards Mecca, okay? They go there, they dress equality, okay? And they say, I accept it, okay? Why God wants us to dress equal in Mecca? Can you tell me? He just orders it. Is there a reason given? Can you cite me the reason? Can you cite it for me? Yes, I told you that the reason is that God wants us all to live equal, okay? I didn't, that's not what I asked. Can you cite it to me? Can you give me a source for the reason of that? Source is that Satan is the source of all bad deeds, okay? No, can you cite me a Quran first, or a Hadith or something, which says that this is the reason, so that there's equality between all of you, all the humans. That's why you're supposed to dress all the same. Yes, yes. There is no such a verse, okay? But you have to understand it, okay? You have to understand that from Quran, from the concept of Mahdi, that Mahdi will come and establish absolute justice on this planet, from the verses of Quran that Satan asked Allah, give me time until the resurrection day, okay? So that I fool people. God's told him, no, I'm not going to give you until that time. You have a limited time, okay? So according Quran, Satan is going to go away a time while we are living on this planet. And Satan is the source of all problems. That's why with the dress of equality, we reject the Satan in Mecca, when we go there, we reject it. First with dress equal, no poor, no rich. We say, I accept it. Then we reject the opposite of equality, which is Satan. Okay, you told me, you basically said that there is no verse, which of course I expected, but you need to understand it that way. What that is called is reading into something because you're not giving me ideas that are actually present in your beliefs. You're simply interpreting them as you wish. And you are interpreting Islamic beliefs and doctrines in a way that 99% of Muslims do not understand and interpret them. 99% of Muslims who go to Mecca, who go to the hajj, who circle the cube, they do not believe that we should get rid of money, which all humans should be equal. We should be, I don't know, we should be loving each other and we are living in a jungle and this and that. No Muslim believes in these things. You and your two or three friends believe in that stuff. I'm sorry for misrepresenting, maybe a thousand other more people believe in that stuff. 99% of Muslims do not believe in that stuff. Where in the Quran do you get the idea that money should be abolished, that all humans must be equal. And so you can't even go to the Quran and tell me that it says that there will be a Mahdi who will free the humans from oppression. No, no. There's also blood in the Quran. Definitely it's not in the Quran, but Quran says that, no, definitely it's not in the Quran, but Quran says that there will definitely, one day there will be, all humanity will become righteous, okay? And he says in many verses that he has. What does it say that, where can you give me a verse which says that all humans will be really righteous one day? Okay, let me bring the verses, okay? And that just let me find. I'm really curious where it says that. Okay, okay. Let me see, Quran chapter 24 verse 51. Allah has promised those of you who believe and do good that he will certainly make them successors in the planet, okay, as he did with those before them and will surely establish for them their faith which he has chosen for them. Okay, what was your claim about this Quran verse? What was your claim, what it says? You claimed that it says that one day people will become righteous, that's what you claimed. But here now you're reading the Quran verse which says that believers should just say we hear and we obey and they will become successful, that's it. It says nothing remotely close to what you just claimed. Okay, the verse unfortunately, I don't have it now but the verse exists and- There is no such verse, I'm sorry, there is no such verse. Chapter 28 verse five. And we wanted to confer favor upon those who were oppressed on the earth and make them leaders and make them inheritors. So Quran promises the oppressed one to rule and inherit. By the way, this oppressed means, says Mostaz Afim. Mostaz Afim means the poor, the lower level of that, for example, today we know that 1% of the world I'm sorry, you're digressing right now again. The verse that you cited, Maley says that we promised, Allah promised to those who were oppressed in the land referring to the Hebrew people under the Pharaoh that they will become leaders and will inherit the land one day. That's all it says. Does it say anywhere that people one day will all become righteous? No, it doesn't. I told you that unfortunately, I don't have the verse right now. There is no such verse, I'm sorry, there is no such verse. If there will be another debate, I will bring it for you, okay? But I know that the verse exists and this verse that I have told you is not just about people of the Jews or whatever you say, it's about oppressed. If it is a promise, okay? That just for one, no, let me see. If it is a promise for just limited people, okay? Then how about the entire humanity? No, it is a promise for all humanity that oppressed will one day rule and inherit the planet. It's not about a piece of land, the planet. So that day that oppressed because there are two level, two classes in Islam, oppressed and oppressor, mustazafin and mustafbri, okay? So when the mustazafin, the oppressed will rule and inherit the planet. It doesn't mean that there will be again oppressed and oppressor. It means that oppression will disappear. One day, everybody will be equal. So there are many other- No, you're just making things up. But the context here actually says, indeed the Pharaoh exalted himself in the land and made his people into factions. He oppressed some of them and slaughtered their sons and kept their females alive. He was one of the corrupters and we promised to those who were oppressed in the land to make them leaders and inheritors and establish them in the land and show the Pharaoh and his minister, Haman and their soldiers through them that which they had feared. So does it talk about all humanity here? No, it specifically talks about those people and nowhere in the Quran does it ever say that all people one day will become righteous. Such a belief is completely contrary to the ideas of Islam. It doesn't exist. You're making things up. Okay, let me see. Chapter 21 verse 105. Surely following the heavenly record we decreed in the scriptures, my righteous servants shall inherit the land. Okay? So there are many, many other verses of Quran that I'll tell you that I wasn't prepared to bring. Okay, in this verse it says, we have written in the book after the previous mention that the land is inherited by my righteous servants. Does it say that people will become righteous one day? No, it says that it will be inherited by those righteous servants, which could be just five people or eight billion people. All right, I say that, unfortunately I didn't bring that verse, okay? But I- Okay, it doesn't exist. It's okay. No, it exists. No, it exists just I didn't bring it because I didn't know that it will come up. Okay, otherwise I would bring it. Definitely it exists, okay? Maybe in some parallel world it exists maybe. You said that atheism doesn't have a book. That's why I told you that I understand that the atheism doesn't have any rules. I said from the beginning, no rules, no boundaries, okay? And that's why we need God to teach us in the past all those things that happened in those barbarism was because people were just following their nature, okay? And they didn't have any teachings, any books of atheism to teach them that this is bad, this is good, okay? So you said apostasy, okay? I have said it many times that apostasy doesn't exist in Islam, okay? In Quran it's just- You mean in your Islam? No, no, it's not in my Islam. In Quran it doesn't exist, okay? Mahdi also doesn't exist in the Quran but you believe in the Mahdi. No, no, but no, I don't believe that, look, I don't believe that Mahdi will come, okay? You just talked, you just said that he will come one day and bring justice. Yeah, according to all Abrahamic religion, we have a Messiah. This is a message that one day, okay? There is a way out of this oppression. It doesn't mean that God have said it many times to be for people as well. It doesn't mean that God is going to send us a Superman who's going to say- There is already the Messiah. There is, people have the Messiah. The Jews have the Messiah or the messianic beliefs. Christians have the Messiah. Islam has the Messiah. Where exactly do you take your Mahdi from? You say that apostasy is not in the Quran, therefore it doesn't exist, but you talk about the Mahdi which also does not exist in the Quran at all. All right, I said that Mahdi is just a message, okay? And it goes in line. I'm not saying that somebody will come. It goes in line with those verses of Quran. Okay, I don't care if it's somebody who will come or not. Do you believe in it? But it doesn't exist in the Quran. Yeah, I believe that one day, the world will be filled with justice, okay? And oppression will disappear, okay? But who will bring that? It's not that Superman called Mahdi who will come and save the humanity. Is us, Quran tells us that one day and the source will disappear. As I said, the state on which is the source will disappear and the world will be filled with justice and equality. Okay, that's the problem. It's very cute that you believe in such things but others also believe that Mohammed said that we should kill those who leave their religion and they based that belief on multiple reports which they verify through Hadith studies and thereby conclude that Mohammed must have said it. He must have said, kill those who change their religion which is why most Muslims adhere to an Islamic jurisprudential system which rules that apostates like myself are to be put to death, that gay people are to be put to death, that you should fight those who don't believe in Islam and who don't adopt the true beliefs of Islam, that the non-Muslims, the disbelievers are the worst of creatures and so on. Some of these are things that are actually mentioned in the Quran. So it looks to me like you're really cherry picking whether you want to believe in something or not regardless if it is in these sources or not. Okay, you said many things, okay. Let me tell you that you said that, yeah, because you said that because somebody said it you unfortunately, you believe in every trash you get, okay. You believe in that, all right, without thinking. Clearly I don't see. All right, no, no, let me. Example here. Okay, yeah, let me give you an example, okay. Let me give you an example, if I may. Sorry, November 18, I had a discussion with you, a debate with you on your channel and you liked my idea and so on. And then you said, you wish me good luck. At the end, your good friend Susanna wrote that I'm supporting a terrorist organization. And then I explained for you two minutes, you said, okay, I have to check it myself. Two days after on MDT, we had a debate. You called my organization a terrorist organization, okay. Why are you putting yourself through the mud right now with something that I didn't even bring up? This is a terrible strategy. No, no, no, no. Like normally in debates, people use this dirty strategy to put mud upon others. You're doing it to yourself. I just, look, I just want to show that how you believe in every trash you hear. Within two days, you just watched one documentary movie from Al Jazeera, okay. And you decided that the organization that exists today is a terrorist organization. You said it, I have the video, everything. This is completely uninteresting. It's completely off topic, but you're also assuming what I watched without even knowing what I watched. So it's very, very strange. So you accuse me of believing in whatever I hear and then you're actually making things up in order to explain why I think the way I think. But nobody cares about this drama and your political affiliation is not part of the debate. No, it shows your qualification of justifying things that you cannot call Prophet Muhammad or Muhammad. Did you say kill apostate? That's impossible for you. But you could call me and tell me that Al Jazeera say this. Are you a part of a terrorist organization before you accuse me? Okay, can you call Prophet Muhammad and ask him, did you say that we should abolish money and establish equality in the world? Okay, that's, I told you, that's a qualification of understanding the Quran, okay? Which you don't have it, okay? I said that. But you do. Yeah, thanks God, yes. Thanks God I have, yes. Okay, so... This is so ridiculous, this is beyond ridiculous, I'm sorry. I can't respect this. This is just so much stupid garbage here that is happening. I cannot bring myself to respect this. I'm trying to be as respectful as possible to people. But I get so much dishonesty and so much nonsense here thrown at me with some belittling patronizing attitude. I can just not respect that. How could you come to this conclusion within two days that an organization exists in the terrorist organization? Nobody cares about your terrorist organization. Of course. Look at this. Let's get back to the debate topic. Let me read you a Quran verse and let's see what you think about this Quran. No, no, let me say it. You cited a lot of Quran verses. Now let me read one Quran verse and ask you what you think about it, okay? Okay, let me tell you. You're talking about equality in the world. Now here's what your dear God Allah says according to the Quran in chapter 16, verse 75. Allah presents an example, a slave who is owned and unable to do a thing and he to whom we have provided from us great provision. So he spends from it secretly and in public. Can they be equal? Praise be to Allah, but most of them do not see. The can they be equal is a rhetorical question. A rhetorical question. The Quran says of course they are not equal. It's I will say this again. A slave who is owned and unable to do a thing and he to whom we have provided from us great provisions. Are they equal? No, that's what the Quran says. What do you think about this? That's 1400 years ago, giving example to the people, okay? That's not for all time, all right? You cannot take like ISIS, take one verse of Quran and say that's all, okay? There are lots of verses of Quran that teaches us and then Hajj and so on that we have to live in equal war and we have to get rid of the inequality I have told you. For example, you say everywhere, you find fabricated hadith about moon splitting by Prophet Muhammad and you say, look here you teasing Islam. A little child would understand that chapter 29 verse 50 and 51 say, but they say, why not a sign has a sign sent down to him from his Lord? Say, the signs are only with Allah and I am only a clear warner and isn't it sufficient for them that we reveal to you the book which is recited to them. So Quran says here, your miracle is Quran. Chapter six verse 35, if there was- I don't know why you're telling me these things. If you have a problem with mainstream Islamic beliefs, you should go and argue that most of the time. No, but okay, that's why I was saying that you, a person who take, for example, I said an example that take one Al-Jazeera documentary and say that an existing organization is a terrorist organization, you avoid all these verses of Quran and take one fabricated hadith and say, oh, look, Prophet Muhammad split the moon. Why it is not mentioned in Quran, AP? Can you tell me- Do you want me to put you on the spot here and ask you if you even understand hadith studies? Do you even understand how hadith studies work? Do you understand how reports are compiled? What procedures they go through, how they are verified? Do you know about the terminology? For example, what is the study called which deals with analyzing the transmitters of hadiths? Look, AP, first of all, a hadith that goes against Quran is fabricated. Definitely, okay? Nice selection, yeah. Yes, the hadith you mentioned goes against all these verses of Quran, something that is repeated in Quran many times is very important. Allah says in chapter 635, if there a version is too hard on you, then seek if you can, a tunnel into the earth or a ladder into the sky in order to bring them a sign, okay? So- Okay, can you tell me where in the Quran it says that money should be abolished? It doesn't go against Quran, okay? I told you that, yeah, I told you. So it's something that just doesn't go against the Quran, but it's not something that the Quran actually brings, right? No, it doesn't bring it- And it even clearly goes against the idea here that somebody that a slave and somebody who is given a lot of things are not equal to each other. There are many other versions that I can cite to you which speak of some people that are given more provision than others. But according to you, Islam preaches complete equality, which however goes against these Quran verses. So I don't really understand how you think that it's consistent. Let me tell you, Quran says that interest is hara, forbidden, okay? So tell me, which capitalist system can survive without interest? You don't even have the word interest. You have the word riba there, which is a system that is not really equal to interest. No, it is interest. That's why when I was in an Islamic bank and said, how much is my interest? They said, no, no, no, we hear, we say profit, okay? Because they cannot use the word interest because interest is hara. Yes, they go around. Because Islamic banking goes around it in different ways. Exactly, because either it is Islam or capitalism. Without, you know, with Islam, you cannot take interest and everything in capitalist system is interest, okay? So especially bank, without bank, the capitalist system collapse, all right? So these are things that you think... Okay, so do you think the king of... What kind of nation was it? The king of Mali, for example, what's his name? Mansa Musa. I don't know, yeah. He was like one of the wealthiest humans who ever existed. He was the head of the Islamic state, which was seen as very righteous. Do you think, how do you think he gathered the money? How do you think Islamic scholars or Islamic rulers, Islamic societies gathered all their money? How do you think people got rich in Islamic countries? How do you think they built architecture? How do you think all of these things happened? Did they all deviate from your perfect Islamic understanding because they didn't know as much about Islam as you do? Yes, definitely they didn't know, okay? Yes, yes, look, of course, of course. You're not supposed to answer this question. I was just mocking you, but you actually answered with yes. No, no, no, look, look, no, apostate, AP, okay? AP, it doesn't mean that a dictator in, for example, Borneo, you call somebody who is, you know, let me tell you, let me, okay, let me read for you a verse of Koran, okay? Just a moment, please. 107, okay? Koran, chapter 107, verse one, two, verse seven. Have you seen the one who denies the religion, okay? That is the one who repulses the orphan and those, sorry, and does not encourage the feeding of the poor. So, who to those who pray yet are not mindful of their prayers, those who only show off, okay? And refuses to give even the simplest aid, okay? So, Allah says, who to those which you said now, okay? That gather billions of dollars and- No, it doesn't say that anywhere here. Okay, it said it here. It doesn't say that anywhere here. It doesn't say anywhere who to those who gather wealth and thousands of dollars. No, it says here. What it says here, who to those who don't take care of the orphans and who don't feed the poor and who don't give charity. Do you think giving charity is a means of abolishing capitalism? No, I didn't say that it, that means abolishing capitalism. I'm saying that you mentioned them as Muslims, okay? And you said that they didn't understand. If they understood, then they would give up all the money to the poor and take care- Where do you find here that it says, give up all your money and help the poor? It merely says that those who do not feed the poor and who don't give in charity are, they are bad. That's all it says. Okay. That you are supposed to give up all your wealth and give it all to somebody else? All right. No, it never says so in the Quran. A little child understand that when you have billions of dollars and there are millions of people who are going hungry, okay? You are not giving to them, okay? You are- Okay, fine. What if you have two or three homes and you have lots of money there and you are still feeding the poor and you are still giving money in charity but you are completely fine living like that while others around the world are not as wealthy and as lucky as you. Do you think that is evil? Do you think that goes against the Quran? It goes against, it's not about two, three homes, okay? It's about the entire system. As I said, the entire system that you, the system allow people 1% of the world population they gather $110 trillion, okay? Why- I'm asking you the question again. I'm asking you the question again. Somebody has wealth, somebody has lots of homes, lots of money, but they also feed the poor and give lots of money in charity, do a lot of good stuff but others are not as wealthy as they are. They make their own wealth and keep making it. Does this go against the Quran? Is this evil? This is, I cannot say about individual, okay? I'm just saying about the entire system, all right? The entire system allows people to gather billions of dollars. That's about the entire system and millions of people on the planet. It's not about one person or two person. That's like, okay. So it does not, it does not go against the Quran, right? Okay, okay. It does not go against the, what is it? The entire one person or two person, okay? But Quran wants us to leave Islam. Okay, so it does not go against the Quran. To have two, three houses. To be wealthy, to have lots of money but also to give in charity, to feed the poor and all that while others are not as lucky as you are. This does not go against the Quran, right? It is not about luck, it's about... Oh my God, does it go against the Quran or not? I don't know about that. Okay, so it does not go against the Quran. If you get charity, no, no. Definitely, if charity is not going against Quran. Okay, okay, okay. Fantastic. So five minutes ago you said about something that you were preaching, it does not go against the Quran. Therefore, it is okay, it is good, it is right. Now we are talking about a person who has lots of wealth which by nature means inequality and feeds the poor, which by nature means inequality and gives in charity, which by nature means inequality. And you say this does not go against the Quran. So therefore, people having wealth and inequality in possession and belongings does not go against the Quran. Therefore, your understanding of the Quran, your Islamic belief does not provide equality, does not get rid of wealthy people, does not get rid of wealth, does none of those things. So where exactly do you pull all of that out from? Okay, AP, I said that giving charity doesn't go against Quran, but gathering billions of dollars wealth... I did not say billions of dollars. I say somebody's wealthy has thousands of dollars, has homes and so on. And you say that... Thousands of dollars, okay. This is the standard of living today. Definitely it's not going against the Quran, that you have a normal life, you have maybe even some millions of dollars, okay. Okay, so capitalism does not go against the Quran. In total, in totality, yes, it goes against the, Allah doesn't want us to live in equal, okay. I told you that why we... Tell me why we are dressing. You said that you don't know. That's why I said I want to have a debate with the Muslim, okay, to ask him why we are dressing equally Mecca. Can you tell me? I don't care about that. Why do you... Okay, then you don't care about... Why do you change the topic right now? No, because you say that Islam doesn't say... I'm completely dumbfounded, where are we going with this? You say Islam doesn't say equality. I'm just wondering about one thing. You just read the Quran verses in which it says taking care of the orphan, feeding the poor and giving in charity. If in your ideal Islamic world, everyone is equal and there are no possessions and no money, then who exactly is poor and who exactly do people give charity to and what exactly, what kind of charity do they give to these fantasy poor people who don't exist in your fantasy world? Okay, that's why you don't understand that certain verses of Quran is for the time being, okay. Of course, whenever it's convenient, it's just for the time being, yeah. Convenient, yeah. There were many verses of Quran which were abrogated by Prophet Muhammad because they were old for the time, okay. It was fine for before that, but later it was old. So Prophet Muhammad abrogated them. So these verses... Can you tell me where in the Quran or in Muhammad's words it says that this concept here was just for the time and it's abrogated? Okay, it's not, it's not, we have this system of Ijtihad in Islam, if you don't know, Mujtahideen. I know very, I know very well and I cannot find two or three scholars who say that this is just for the time. No, I say that... So you're just making up another stuff as you go. You just made up another thing to suit your story. Okay, just because you haven't seen or heard such scholars who say it doesn't mean they don't exist, Rabwah. Maybe you have a friend, okay, that's fine. I'm sorry, I don't... It's not a friend, it's a... Okay, it's not a friend. Scholar which has millions of followers, okay. They also say that verses of Quran has to be abrogated by Mujtahideen, Mujtahideen or these scholars are not for reading Quran for us or just make tafsir because once you make tafsir, once you read Quran, that's all, enough then, why we need these scholars? Because the scholars have to tell us, for example, there is the verse of Quran that say, let me say, Rabwah, the verses of Quran that says how to fast, do you know how to fast in Quran? How is the ruling for fast in Quran? It's not explained in the Quran, yeah. No, it says from the sunrise to sunset, okay. It doesn't say? It doesn't give you all the details, exactly. No, but it says from the sunrise. Yeah, sure. Yeah, it doesn't give you all the details of how to pray and when to pray either. Yeah, it says from sunrise to sunset, you have to fast, okay, during daytime. So when we come to the North Sweden, these scholars who don't understand, then they get stuck that because in North Sweden, okay, in summer, 24 hours a day. So that verse of Quran has to be changed here. It cannot be followed in North Sweden. So that's why those who say that, no, it is forever and everywhere, they don't understand such a thing. Okay, so there are two things that you can come to here in this case. When the Quran doesn't make any sense that you can't get anything out of this, there are two routes that you could go. Route one is it doesn't make sense. So maybe it is not really true. Route two is it doesn't make sense, but it has to make sense. So we have to find a way to interpret it, right? Why do you immediately get rid of this option and immediately go for this one? No, I didn't say it doesn't make sense the way you said. I said we have the H.J. Hart system, the scholarship system to adopt this. That's a very lengthy way of saying, there's a very lengthy way of saying it doesn't make sense on the surface. All right, okay, so route one. This is what I say people here, they can decide, accept it or not, okay? So you say whatever you want. You said about, you know, did Islam solve problems of slavery? Islam and prophets didn't come to solve problems immediately, okay? God says that if he wanted to make us Muslims, he would have created us Muslim, okay? So he gave us time, he gave us the opportunity, the problems supposed to be solved, you know, slowly, slowly by the getting, you know, righteous. That's a good topic. Can you give me your source from the Quran or the Hadith or something which says that slavery is evil and should be abolished? Yes, yes, okay. Slavery is evil and should be above. Yeah, let me see, let me see. Is your Islamic scholar's name by any chance Karl Marx? I'm just wondering. While we're waiting, folks, I wanna let you know our guests are linked in the description. In case you'd like to learn more about their views, you can click on their links below and hear plenty more. And that includes if you're listening to the podcast, all of our debates end up on the podcast. Within 24 hours of the debate being live, you can find our guest links there in the description box for each podcast episode as well. Okay, I have to, I cannot find it, but. It doesn't exist, let me tell you. The Quran never says, the Quran never says that slavery is something evil and that it should get rid of it. What the Quran does say, what the Quran does encourage is occasionally in return for certain things to free a slave, for example. But it also tells you to take slaves and to hold slaves and to use slaves. It also tells you to give money in charity while it tells you that Allah gives you provisions. So just because it tells you to free slaves in return for things, that doesn't mean you're supposed to get rid of slavery. That just means slavery, that just means a slave is a possession, a currency, which is why the Quran also speaks of slaves being owned by Muslims. Okay, let me, I have, look, one of the crimes of, in Quran, one of the crimes of Frau was the slave, enslaving people, okay? That's why. The slaving home. Bunny is right. Yeah, enslaving them, not enslaving people. Slavery, it was a crime, okay? So Muhammad committed a crime to them, I guess. No, okay, let me, okay. But you don't try, there is no Quran verse. Okay, let's, let's say we're easy. Chapter 26, verse 22, Moses said, is this a favor of which you remind me that you have enslaved the children of Israel, okay? These are. Inslaved whom? Can you say that again? Children of Israel, children of Israel, okay? Okay, did you have enslaved the children of Israel? Yeah, so slavery was a crime, okay, by Frau, okay? So Frau said, chapter seven, verse 127, we will slaughter their sons and keep their women alive. Indeed, we are subjecting them, okay? So that many other verses, they said it is, let me see. Okay, so the Quran says as you. Chapter 23, verse 47, they said, should we believe to men like ourselves while their people are enslaved for us, okay? So these are several, many, many, many verses as well, okay? Okay, so all you brought to me, as a client. I asked you if there is a Quran verse which says that slavery is evil and that it should be abolished. You have not brought me such a thing. All you have brought to me is that the Frau apparently enslaved the children of Israel and this is bad, he should not have done that. Now let me give you something to the contrary. Quran chapter 24, verse 32, Mary is such of you who are solitary and the pious of your slaves and your maid servants. If a faithful slave girl is better than an idolatrous, Quran 2, verse 20, 2021. A faithful slave is better than an idolater. It says in chapter four, verse 24, also prohibited are women who are already married except those whom your right hand possesses, which is Islamic words, Islamic slang for slaves or servants. And those who guard their chastity, Quran chapter 70, verse 30, except with their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess and so on. And as I read to you earlier is the slave and the owner whom we have given provisions equal to each other. Of course they are not. So the Quran speaks positively and approvingly at least intolerance of slavery and never calls it evil, never says that it should be abolished. Okay. Yes, I said from beginning, God didn't meant to solve all problems immediately otherwise he would create as he says in Quran, Muslims. And that's why he sent us prophets one by one to teach us slowly, slowly. And it didn't meant to abolish slavery right away because it wasn't possible. It's like I've said many times to people that it's like today we know that fossil fuel is bad for humanity, for environment, but we cannot stop it. We cannot totally get rid of it. That's why we try to create different ways, for example, putting tax and so on. And how we come to the conclusion that fossil fuel is bad and that we should decrease the use of it by putting taxes on it. Did Islam tell us that? I gave you an example that slavery wasn't possible at that time. And I know I'm just asking about your example. How did we come to the conclusion that Islam tell us that or did we come to that conclusion by ourselves? We came to this conclusion definitely ourselves. So secularly with atheism. I said this from beginning, this civilization we have today is because of the teachings of God, Abrahamic religion that has taught us until now. For example, I was going to ask you, give you an example that there is a nation I'm not going to name them in the east, that far east, that they cook dogs alive, they boil different animals alive. Okay. You could have just said it. No, no, okay, okay. Yes, people know that, okay. But the same nation, they have 50 million people, okay, who are Muslims, they don't do such a brutality. So we need God to teach us that these things are bad. In nature, we don't understand it ourselves, okay. So whatever we have today is because of Abrahamic religion, all right. Otherwise, they would also understand that this is. I would lovingly go into the ethics behind eating different animals and not eating other animals, which you can by the way, never ever justify and back up in a reasonable way with your Islamic beliefs. But that is completely off topic. I'm still stuck on one thing. You say that the Quran, so we have established that the Quran does not say that slavery is unanimously evil and that it must be abolished. It never says such a thing nor does it imply such a thing. On the contrary, it condones slavery in many verses. Now, you told me, therefore, Allah sent different prophets, like the prophet Muhammad, who taught us slowly how to do things, including getting rid of slavery. This implies that Islam told you to get rid of slavery over time. Now, where does it say that? Does it say that in the Quran? No. Okay, the Quran says definitely in many verses that the punishment of these and that is to free slaves. And those who understand it like those verses I read for you that slavery was a crime by frau. It was condemned by God. So that wasn't abolished right away. I told you because it was too early. It wasn't possible. And you said that Quran says that fight disbelievers. Ah, by the way, you said that... You're changing the topic way too quickly. We have already established that the Quran only refers to the acts of the Pharaoh as evil, as atrocities. It never unanimously declares that slavery is evil. It condones slavery. And according to the historical consensus, Muslims had slavery from the very beginning until today's time. There's no reason for us to ever think that Islam attempted to get rid of slavery. And we have also established that saying free slaves in return for certain sins does not mean that slavery is bad and they should get rid of it. Just as charity, giving in charity does not mean that you should abolish money. That doesn't make any sense. Okay, Muslims were killing given each other. That doesn't mean that it was Islamic. Like even prophets, what is it? Companions, they were fighting each other, which Quran condemned it, okay? So what Muslim were doing is not... You cannot say that this is Islam because Muslims did this and that, okay? There are... ISIS do a lot of terrible bad things today. I'm not saying this is Islam because Muslims did it. I'm saying that there is no evidence. There is no reason for us to conclude that this is not Islam. I gave my evidences and that's up to an individual to understand that when it is crying for, you know, for Pharaoh to do something, then it's crying for everybody, okay? So let's go to disbelief from where you... James, how much time do we have? Okay. We've only got about a few minutes before we go into the Q&A. Do we do like maybe closing speeches or something? Yes. If you guys refer. No, red one, red one, let me ask you, where in Qur'an say go and kill disbelievers? You said that Qur'an say disbelievers. Oh yeah, sure. It says in Qur'an chapter 9, verse 29. I love that verse. I love citing that verse. It says exactly in these words, in Qur'an chapter 9, verse 29, fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the last day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the scripture. This is a poorly word. It's from among those who were given the scripture until they give the jizya willingly while they are humbled. So the command is to fight those who don't believe in Allah and His messenger if they don't adopt the true religion until they pay you protection money. Okay. Let me... I said from beginning that like ISIS and Taliban take one verse of Qur'an and say that this is all okay. Chapter 16 verse 83 says, they recognize the favor of Allah. They deny it. Who are they? Can you tell me, Redwan? Why are they? I do tell me. You were reading something. Okay. It says they recognize the disbelievers. Allah, they exactly disbelievers. Then they deny it and the most of them are kafir. Okay. Why not all of them? If disbelief is kafir, then why not all of them are kafir? Chapter 98 verse one. Those who commit kafir amount the people of the scripture and the polisities did not give up their kafir until there came to them clear evidence. So if people of the book are kafir according you and according ISIS and Taliban, okay? If according you, they are kafir, then why among them are kafir? Okay. Not all of them. Because it speaks about those who deny Allah's favors and says that most of them are kafir. In the first verse that you cited, the context of the first verse is explicitly that Allah creates people for worship, but then he gives them favors and they do not recognize his favors and they do not appreciate it because they are kafir and they do not know. So what are you getting at here? Yeah. Okay. Let me see. Chapter two verse 34 because they say that this is disbelief. Chapter two verse 34. When we told the angel bow down before Adam, they all bowed, but not at least, who refused and was arrogant and he became a kafir. Satan, how we could become kafir when if kafir is disbelief, then how when he was talking to Allah, he was serving Allah. Because he denied Allah. Because he denied Allah. This is a very simple, because he denied believing Allah. This is a very simple Islamic concept. Every single Muslim who is here in the chat will agree with me here and know that this is a very simple concept in Islam, a kafir is not somebody who does not know or believe in the existence of Allah. A kafir is by definition, somebody who rejects Islam, who rejects the belief in Allah, including those who know that Islam is true, who know that Allah exists. This is an Islamic claim mentioned in the Quran many times, who know that Allah exists, but they deny it knowingly, including those people are a kafir and they are horrible people according to Islam. Every single Muslim here in the chat knows about this. Okay, maybe I'm exaggerating. Maybe there are two or three people who don't know. Maybe there are two or three people who don't know about that, but this is a very simple Islamic concept. Kafir is somebody who denies, who rejects, which is why Satan, according to the Islamic tradition, when he knows that Allah exists, but denies him and does not believe and does not follow him, does not become an obedient Muslim, becomes a kafir. And I don't know why you're diverting from this because the Quran verse that I cited clearly says, fight those who do not believe and who do not adopt the religion of truth. Okay, I told you that you take one verse and say, when you put it beside all these verses, okay? Chapter 49 verse 13, say O Mankind, it doesn't say O Muslim. Okay, what does it say in Quran 9 verse 29? All right, okay, say O Mankind, indeed we have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is knowing, Allah is aware, okay? So Allah says O Mankind, it doesn't say O Muslims, okay? And I read for you chapter 107 verse 1 to 7 that it doesn't mean if you believe or you disbelieve, when you do not follow his command to feed, you know, orphans to feed the poor, then you deny his, you know, his commands. So- Okay, what does it say in Quran chapter 9 verse 29? I told you that you take one verse of Quran and say- You said that many times. So what does it say in the verse that I cited to you? Okay, but I understand what you recited to me, okay? Okay, it says fight those who do not believe. The word here is not, is not cavalry or anything. It explicitly says fight those who do not believe, minuna, which is Arabic for, you know, believing, putting faith into, in the last day, or Allah and his messenger and who do not adopt what Allah and his messenger made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth, from those who were given the scripture. It never talks about the oppressors or anything like that. It talks about those who do not believe. Okay, let me, let me read it for you. I will explain for you what it says, okay? I want to give you guys a chance to do your closing statement soon if you're ready for it. Okay, let me, let me please read this one for him, okay? Chapter three verse seven says, it is he who has sent down to you, O Muhammad, the book. In it are verses that are precise. They are the foundation of the book and others unspecific. As for those whose heart is corrupted like Ridwan and Isis and Taliban, okay? They are, sorry, others are unspecific. As for those whose heart is corrupted, they will follow that of which is unspecific like you and them, okay? Desire. Me, Taliban and Isis. I said, yeah, desiring, no, desiring, desiring to create confusion and their own interpretation. And no one. That's very convenient to invoke this when you don't, to make sense of a Qur'an verse. I'm still asking you, what does the Qur'an verse say? Right, right, I'm going to tell you. And no one knows it's true interpretation except Allah and those who are in knowledge. It should say except Allah and the perfect hour. No, no, and those filming knowledge. How those filming knowledge understand the true meaning of these verses is that they put those, that verse you read, okay? They put it beside, let me see. Do you know the true meaning? Okay, okay, let me explain. They put it beside chapter 60 verse eight. Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes, from being righteous towards them and acting justly towards them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. So when you put that verse beside this verse, then you understand that I'm not going to fight you, kill you because you are not killing me. Does it say in that verse that you are not supposed to fight them? No, it says Allah does not forbid you. Look, it doesn't even say do this. It says Allah does not forbid you from being righteous and just towards those who did not fight you. It does not forbid you from being righteous and just. Does it say be peaceful? Does it say don't fight them? No, justice is, as I said in the very beginning, relative, whomever you ask, Islam's justice is obviously that if you encounter the disbelievers, you fight them and humiliate them and take protection money from them because they don't adopt the true beliefs. I will ask you one final time. In Qur'an chapter 9, verse 29, it says fight those who do not believe explicitly in Allah and who do not believe in the last day and don't adopt the religion of truth. Fight them until they give you the protection money. The jizya. What does it say here? Why does it say this? Okay, let me, okay, let me tell you that, okay? Because... You can do your closing speech for that if you want to. I'm not gonna... Two seconds. Okay, I cannot find it right now. Okay, it says Qur'an. I thought so. Yes, yes, no, I will, if you give me time, I will give you. Fight, Allah says in many verses, okay? Many verses, fight as long as they fight. Okay, yes, here. Okay, I found it. Chapter four verse 89, they wish that you should be a kafir just as they are kafirs, so that you may all be alike. Do not therefore take from them allies until they immigrate in the way of Allah. But if they turn their backs, seize them and slay them wherever you come upon them. Take none of them for your ally helper. Next verses, unless it be such of them who seek refuge with the people who are joined with you by... Fantastic, you just took yourself with the foot, great. Okay, great, yeah. Or those who come to you because their hearts shrink from fighting either against you or against their own people. Had Allah so willed, He would certainly have given them power over you and they would have fought against you if they leave you alone. Thank you, you have just shot yourself in the foot, you can keep reciting. Great, good job, congratulations. People, Lord, people listening, if they leave you alone and do not fight you against you and offer you peace, then Allah does not permit you to fight, to harm them. Chapter four, next verse also says that, 491. You will find others who wish to obtain security from you and obtain security from their people. Every time they are returned to state of oppression, they all back into it. So it... I think we all got it, come on. All right, chapter six, eight verse 61. I want to give you another 20 seconds to finish up. Okay, let me read this one. Chapter eight verse 61. And if they incline to peace, then incline to it and rely upon Allah. Indeed, it is He who is the hearing, the many, many verses. And you take like I say. And then humiliate them and take protection from them because that's what Allah commands you to do. It is just taxed like everyone, I'm giving tax also. It is just a normal tax, okay? It is not just a normal tax. Do Muslims also give jizya? No, only non-Muslims give jizya. What happens if non-Muslims don't give jizya? They lose protection from the Islamic state and can be killed and they are fair game. That's what it is. Thank you for this great job, well done. Let's go to the closing stages, please. All right. We're gonna jump in too. I want to give you five minutes. We had, if I remember right. I just need one minute, Jen. You got it. If I remember right, perfect dawa you started at the very start. And so we'll give you a chance to start with the closings as well. Five minutes and then we'll go over to apostate prophet for five minutes followed by Q&A. So folks, if you happen to have a question, we do have a pretty good long list. So we want to make our Q&A short and pithy. So we can't guarantee we'll get through new questions, but we're gonna move through there as fast as possible. And with that, perfect dawa of the floor is all yours. Okay, I would like to say that, as I said, he just take every trash, he hear different fabricated hadithes. He just use them because he like to, you know, demonizing Islam and Muslims. And as I said, it is difficult definitely for somebody like him to understand such a vast, you know, difficult subject when he doesn't understand that simple thing that in 21st century, he doesn't judge an existing organization. And I would give you this opportunity, AP, that you bring along with you, your friend, you know, that Susanna or, well, Navabi, okay? Along with them, you can sit in your channel and prove me that my organization is a terrorist organization. If you can't do that, then I can understand that you know, you don't just take every rubbish and demonize Islam, okay? Because somebody who cannot understand this simple thing that in 21st century, you could at least ask me, Mujee, what do you think about this, you know, documentary Al Jazeera has made, okay? So that I would give you the proof, the evidence that they are just made up by Iranian fascist regime. And by the way, Al Jazeera is state government, Qatar state government, you know, what is it? Company and Qatar is an ally country to Iranian regime that is, you know, even under sanction but by Saudi Arabia, UAE and Egypt and Bahrain because of its close, you know, ties with Iran. And you take that rubbish, you know, report against and you say, we know that your organization is a terrorist organization. How do you know in 21st century that a great organization that's fighting against the Godfather of international terrorism is a terrorist organization? Such a people like you would never know that Prophet Muhammad never said such a trash that you take everywhere and say that he married, you know, a six years old girl or he said kill apostate and so on. So people like you should learn how to judge. You have to, you know, study correctly. You have to understand, you know, things better, not just like, you know, say that, oh, okay, I see this evidence is enough for me. All right. You got it. Thank you very much for that closing. We'll kick it over to AP as well for his floor is all yours. Thank you so much. I don't think anybody really cared about most of that part about the organization, but I appreciate your closing speech. Thanks everyone for this opportunity. I think it's very obvious what's going on here. The Quran is not a hard book to understand. It's not hard to understand. Islam is not difficult to understand. It is all very simple, which is why very simple people with very simple minds in the seventh century in a very simple region followed it and understood it and applied it with all brutality by declaring war and expanding with brutalities, with atrocities and thereby making it the religion that grew almost exclusively through warfare, through expansion. Most of the Muslims that exist today in the world are Muslims because their ancestors at some point were brutally conquered and subjugated and subdued by Muslims, by the Islamic religion and doctrine. The Quran is not hard to understand. It's very simple. We have demonstrated today as well that the Quran clearly and explicitly says that Muslims are supposed to fight those who do not believe in Allah and the last day, who do not believe in Muhammad and who do not adopt the Islamic religion. It very clearly and explicitly says so in chapter nine, verse 29. And Muji here has repeatedly refused to comment on that and repeatedly refused to explain to us what in the world that means. It does not talk about oppressors. It talks about those who don't believe explicitly and literally. That is what Islam is. That's how Islam spread. Islam commanded throughout its history because its commands so in the book in its scripture that you fight those who don't believe in Islam and you subjugate them and take protection money from them. If they don't give you the protection money, if they don't become your subjects, then they are to be fought and killed and enslaved. This is not something that I'm just coming up with that I'm saying. You will find many people in our time, I posted many videos of those scholars, many people in our time who will say the exact same things and those people by the way are not part of ISIS or Taliban or whatever it is. They are just the regular Muslim scholars and apologists who actually know what they're talking about. Just like that, just like that in the past, there were also scholars who explicitly said that it is the Islamic community's mission to establish a caliphate and to spread Islam by preaching or by force. There is no reason to follow this barbaric religion. Its claims are nonsense. Its politics bring suffering and nothing else. I'm sad that we didn't talk about atheism versus Islam at all because Islam is just too much bad stuff to talk about. Thank you. We're gonna jump into the Q and A. I want to remind you folks, our guests are linked in the description box below and interestingly we're doing a poll. 7% of the people watching right now, there's about 588. So popular debate for sure. About 8% here for the first time. 61% pretty high. Have checked out links from guests in the past to learn more about their views and only 32% said no that they have not. So really, we have our guest links in the description. You can learn more about their views. Those links are waiting there right now for you folks as we really do appreciate our guests they're the lifeblood of the channel. They make it fun here. And let's jump into the Q and A. You guys make it fun as well. We appreciate all of your questions. Thanks for your support of the channel. One way you can do that as well is hitting that like button for real. That will make it so that this debate will be seen by more people as the YouTube algorithm is influenced by how many likes a video gets. Dave Daliaphora, thanks for your kind words. As we love James, I appreciate your support. Dave Mali, a tot says, yes we do. Thank you. Notion Slaves says, why do two people argue publicly? They say, gayet in Islamic degree first. Okay, so they're saying you need an Islamic degree. Would you guys have something in response in terms of informal studies being useful as well? I am pursuing an education and going into the direction of taking religious courses as well. So I'm dealing with that issue directly but I have also practiced Islam and read tons of books over the years about Islamic Jewish Prudential Law, Hadith studies, Quran studies, theology, and so on. You can learn all of that without getting a degree. You can, Islam is not that difficult to understand. Okay, Matt, and I would like to also answer that dependent where you get your degree. Okay, if you go like, perhaps AP has gotten his degree from those mattresses, Taliban, they have because you exactly like them take one verse of Quran and ignore all other verses of Quran that says, do not fight those who do not fight you. And you take just one verse and say that, okay, that's all. Okay, it's exactly what they do. And I have been also myself studying a lot, different views of Islam and Quran. So as I said, there are many, many scholars who study many, many years and make it their job, their business, okay? And they don't care about the true Islam. So they follow just mainstream Islam because they need, they think about their job, their business. That's why they don't go against these trash Hadiths and so on. They just follow it and that's why they, you know, that's why AP and people like him say that, oh, look, look, these are our, I hate to do this, but just to stick with the questions themselves. Thanks very much. Ken Hovind, CPA says, let's see. Perfect Dawa sounds like Kent Hovind. Are you a fan of Kent? I don't know who is Kent Hovind. Oh, really? Wow. Okay. Notionally, let's, this one extra delight says, this one extra delight says Perfect Dawa, why aren't you for union organizations for workers? This would help with the problems that you're talking about, such as poor people, prostitutes, sex trafficking, all workers. Okay. That's, I think it's a pain killer. These things are good, but they are pain killer because the source exists and we have to get rid of the source which is in Abrahamic religion. It is Satan, okay? And God wants us to get rid of the Satan and the source. When the source is gone, everything will be gone. When the cancer is gone, all pains in the entire body will go away. By pain killer, you just help it a little bit. So that's why these are good, yeah? But not the final answer. You got it, Ann. Thank you very much for your question, Oflamio. It says, are atheists also polytheists? I guess that's a question for Muji because he conflated those things at the very beginning. He said that atheism brought us gladiators and crucifixion and stuff like that. I think they are kind of the same because, yeah, their ideas for me, I'm not going to, you know, talk about their religion. Just I say this much because I usually like to, not to attack other religions as long as they don't harm people. So I respect their beliefs as long as they respect my belief, as long as they are not going to harm anybody. Even within Islam, if somebody, you know- So people who don't believe in God, who don't believe in divine beings are basically the same as people who sacrifice humans for God's. Fantastic. Great analogy. I didn't understand what you said. I didn't understand AP, okay? Can you repeat it again? I said so by that logic, people who don't believe in God are just like people who believe in multiple gods and who sacrifice things, including humans for their gods. Very great understanding. I didn't say that, no. I say that I have always said that a person who doesn't believe in God and, you know, following those commands of Allah and help people feeding, you know, poor and, you know, helping orphans and so on, they are much better, you know, Allah says that, O mankind, okay, the best of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous one. So they are much, much better than those who believe and go and kill innocent people like ISIS and Taliban. So that's my belief. And I have given the verses of Quran that, you know, being righteous doesn't mean that you have to believe. As you said in your past, you know, your past debate, you said that, oh, what is it? A Jew will go to hell. No, according to Islam, a Jew is not going to hell. An atheist is not going to hell. As long as you do not, you do not, you know, commit such a barbaric. That's very, very off-topic, please. Let's move to the next one. Thank you very much for your question. Coming in from James Krauss says, one, how did Dawah come to such knowledge of Islam? And two, how can he dismiss others who use the same technique but came to a different conclusion than him? How I came to this conclusion, he asked, I mean, true studying. So I don't know, those, I explained that, why they didn't come to this conclusion because, to this conclusion, because first of all, they were, it was past time, their knowledge was limited. And as I said, that many of them, they were just following their teachers. The teachers were also following their teachers and so on. And many of them were businessmen and religion. It is in all religions. Religion was their business, okay? So when they come, they grow up, they just follow their business, what their teacher have thought them. So that's a, that I can say why they didn't come to this conclusion. You got it, and thanks for your question. Noval Gates says, if the origin of the Quran is comparable to the book of Mormon, would it then be fair to dismiss it just as easily? To whom is that? I'm not sure. I'll return. I don't know, I don't know the book of Mormon. So I don't know what he meant with that. I don't know the book of Mormon. I would say yes. And I don't, as I said, I don't judge people based on their beliefs. So I don't talk against their beliefs. This one from Anton Gomez says, question have either of you performed the Hajj and do you think it is a positive thing in Islam since it's very good exercise? I did not. I had the chance but did not take it. My parents did when I was much younger. So when I was a teenager, that's all I can say from experience about it. It's the question supposed to be funny because it kind of is. I don't know. But this one coming in from Joe Schwartz says, perfect Dawah. What can atheism learn from Islam? A lot, I read few, you know, few verses of Quran. I said stand firm for Allah and bear true testimony. Do not let the hatred of the people lead you to injustice. Of course, the AP reject them, you know, try to twist them which is very, very obvious for any rational person to understand Quran chapter two verse 263. A kind word and forgiveness is better than charity followed by injury. And Allah is, okay, I will tell you like this. Hey guys, be just. Okay, you know what to do. All right, we don't discuss that one. As a former atheist, I'm much better human being today than I was in the past. As an atheist, if you ask me what is the, do you believe in death penalty? I would say yes. But today I say no, we have no right to judge anybody. That is your fault. Punish anybody, okay? That is your fault. That has nothing to do with your beliefs. Okay. This one coming in from, oh, they actually had one for you as well, AP. They said, what can atheism learn from Islam? Or what can Islam learn from atheism? Sorry about that. What can Islam learn from atheism? Correct. Okay, what can Islam learn from atheism? To value the knowledge, to keep an open mind, to not blindly believe in all kinds of superstitious nonsensical beliefs and to judge independently by human rationality instead of sticking to some seventh century atrocities. This one from Erin Johnson says, actually Zafoxy, thanks for your kind word. It says James, I'm digging the beard. I appreciate that. Erin Johnson says both. The Quran allows you to marry other people's wives in two verse 24. Can atheism come up with a better rule for war captives? They said, Muslim has to admit, yes. But I guess, let's say there are captives from a war. Can atheism come up with a better rule for war captives than allowing you to marry other people's wives? I may be assumed they mean polygamy, but I'm not sure. Yeah, the Quran does, or the Quran and the Hadith do condone the practice of marrying slaves that you own, which Muslims take from their enemies when they beat. The logic there is then that the marriages to their current husbands become invalid because as slaves of the Muslims, they now have a new contract with the Muslims and their marriages with their disbelieving husbands are no longer applicable, which is of course a very, very nice system. Of course, you can get away from that and come with all kinds of different independent ideas such as not taking female slaves and abusing them. Any thoughts, Purvigawa? I have to say that I haven't been studying that one closely, but I know that it is not allowed that you just have sex with anyone and you have to marry them and marriage should be willingly, because if it is unwillingly, then it is rape and it is not legal. So this is, I know in many verses of Quran, of course, that you have to marry them, you cannot force them to, even you cannot force them to prostitution. This one coming in from, do appreciate your question. Anton Gomez says for both, is it possible that Muhammad was killed in the battle of Ahud and it was covered up later in writing or by a lookalike replacement? I heard such a theory before. I had such theories before that Muhammad died before or that Muhammad lived actually longer and was there during the conquest of Jerusalem and things like that. But honestly, I haven't really thought about them that much, haven't really considered that's important. But thank you. Any thoughts, Purvig Dawa? No, of course, I don't believe, definitely, that's... Gotcha. That he died naturally at the age of 63 and he gave his final speech as well. But the Quran doesn't say that, does it? No, the Quran doesn't say that, but the history says that, of course. Mike! Mike! There is a verse, sorry, there is a verse that say that I complete my favor up in you, that verse is the final verse of Prophet Muhammad, God, of course, in Quran. Yes. This one, coming in from, do appreciate it, Mike. Q922, thanks for your supersticker support and Zavoxi says, I've spoken to a few Muslims and they told me that the Hadiths were all meaningless since they were not part of the Quran. What's both debaters' opinion on this? Pardon my ignorance. Well, the idea that all Hadiths are invalid and unimportant is a very unpopular belief in the Muslim world that very few people follow and most of those who do follow such a belief are ignorant people who don't really have much of an understanding of Islam and Islamic studies. If you want to dismiss Hadiths entirely, then you also have to dismiss the Quran because you have no way of verifying that the Quran that you read today was indeed revealed and transcribed and compiled by righteous people and brought to you. So that's a very shaky idea to hold on to. There are some people who say that most Hadiths are unreliable or those Hadiths that contradict with the Quran are unreliable. The most popular belief is that there is an established thing called Hadith studies which is a complex study of reports about things that Muhammad said and did and that his companions said and did. And among those many Hadiths are verifiable and some are considered definitely true because it's impossible to make them up even by Shia Muslims. And I'm somewhere in between there. Got it? Yeah, I can say that of course there are hundreds of thousands of propagated Hadiths but there are authentic Hadiths that we need them and I have had to debate with those Quranis who reject all Hadiths. And one of them is the dress of equality in Mecca when we wear that, stoning the Satan. They are not in Quran. So if we don't follow the Hadith, then how do we know what to do in Hajj? You got it and thank you very much for this question coming in from Luigi Santoriello. Perfect Dawa, you should apologize to Ridvan, AKA Apostate Prophet, for comparing him with Isis and Taliban. This is frankly disgusting. All right. I say that the way I compare him in that way that they do the same thing, they take one. I didn't say that he's like them, he's killing people and so on. But this part that he take also one verse of Quran and say that's all, okay, it's the same way they are doing. Definitely he's not like them to go and kill people around, okay? But- I'm also like Hitler that I drink. Okay. If you compare, no, that's if you say, if you said that Jews are so and so, then I could compare you in that particular part like Hitler, okay? I don't say that, but I know a religion, a prophet and a religious book that say some very bad things about Jews. No, again, if you have to go and I said again, you take one verse, not other verses that Allah says about Jews and Christian that they go to heaven, they get their rewards and so on, you ignore them, okay? Like them, like them, you ignore them and take just that verse that make your agenda and say that's all, that's Quran. No, that's not, okay? So I told you that you have to put them beside other verses of Quran to take the true interpretation of them, okay? Yes. You got it, Ann, thank you very much for your question, this one coming in from, Mali Atat said, perfect Dawah, did you come here to debate the topic or attack apostate prophet for his past beef? I came to debate definitely, yes, and to, because I apostate prophet, he's spreading hate against Muslims and Islam. So I'm here to prove, I was here to prove that his judgment is based on wrong information and he cannot judge a simple thing that is going on in 21st century, how he can judge what happened 1400 years ago. If a judge doesn't judge correctly when you have the fingerprint, you have the DNA, everything and you make a mistake, then how you can trust such a judge anymore. You got it. Thank you very much for your question. This one coming in from, Azri, let me, Azri Schizophrenia says, hey AP, you will fight something that causes harm, will you not, or are you a pacifist? Thus justifying killing each other, i.e. evil. I wouldn't call it evil, I'm certainly not against violence and fighting all together. I would say, of course I believe in, if I see that somebody is being attacked or abused or if somebody is attacking me, then I will use the means to defend myself or to defend another victim. If people are oppressors in the world, I find it justifiable to use force to stop the oppressors, of course, but generally I think I am very, very pacifistic. You got it. This one coming in from your, am I saying it right, your, let me know. They say, perfect Allah will torture unbelievers with fire forever. He is the creator of hell. He is strong and will torture the weak forever. Do you submit out of fear therefore? No, I've said it many times that I converted to Islam not because God exists or Islam is the final message of God because I converted to Islam because Islam can solve our problems in this world. The almighty God must be able to help us to guide us out of these problems we have. If he cannot, then I don't see any reason that why, I'm not worshiping God, definitely I'm just obeying him and this worship is a very wrong word because he doesn't need me as, you know, who is nothing on this planet comparing to this vast universe that he needs me to worship him. No, he needs me to obey him because of myself, because of my own kind, okay? Because he wants us to live, he loves us and he wants us to live in a good world, a peaceful world. And unfortunately, people like AP, they spread hate against others. And that's not good. I'm sorry, I cannot respect this. I have to stop you with that bullshit there. Please stop saying dumb stuff like you're spreading hate against others. I do not spread hate against others or against groups of people. Your fellow believers in your book definitely does that. I certainly do not. And the question that was asked to you was about the disbelievers going to hell and being burnt there forever, which the Quran says over and over again. So please stick to the topic, stop with those lies. You're being very filthy. Yes, because you do that. And I said that, I have said it, that is not the disbelievers. Even ISIS and Taliban, for their crimes, they will be punished is not for your believe or disbelieve. I have read for you different verses of Quran that the best of you front of Allah, O mankind, the best of you front of Allah is the most righteous one. So you do good deeds, then you will be rewarded. Many, many other verses I can read, but unfortunately we don't have. Such as Quran 72, 23, which says, whoever disobeys Allah and is messenger, then indeed for him is the fire of hell. They will abide therein forever. Okay, again, you read one, you read one verse of Quran. There are many verses of Quran that says, Let's just ignore this one and look at the nice ones. No, yeah, okay, so let's ignore those and you just take this one, yeah? So either- I don't, I take all of them into consideration. You just ignore this one. No, no, I don't ignore it. I just interpreted this one in favor of those that Allah says that enter my paradise for what you used to do, okay? And even Allah says that those who see the fire say that oh Allah send us back to the earth so that we do good deed. It doesn't say that send us back back to the earth so that we believe. It says send us back so that we do good deeds. Yeah, cool, cool story. Yes. This one coming in from Vulcan of Nocturne. Thanks for your question. This is from the chat. We got to a couple of standard questions and we've got to wrap up because I want to get the speakers out here by a decent time. They've already been with us for about two hours. So Vulcan of Nocturne, thanks for your question. Said ask that question again. Okay, never mind. That was just something about the poll. What a wasted question. Let me find one that came in recently. This one came in from everybody. By the way, I got to tell you folks. It's, I'd say it's a small percent of every camp has some people in it that are desperate to say you're being biased against my group. And it's like, oh my gosh, you phrased that question so biased. I'm like, you guys, seriously. But like I said, 99% of you are reasonable and not constantly playing the victim and saying that you're being persecuted against. Like I said, it's people from every camp. So I'm not picking on any particular group. Tomzo says for Dawah, why didn't Allah just tell Muhammad detailed scientific facts? Wouldn't that have meant he and the first Muslims would be the most advanced? I didn't understand exactly what he meant. But can you please explain what he meant with that? That Allah should give scientific facts? Why didn't Allah reveal, you know, true scientific facts to Muhammad so that the Muslims would be knowledgeable and the most advanced people? Because Quran is not the book of science. That's, he knows, he knew that we can come up with everything ourselves. He gave us the intelligence to, you know, to come up with these things ourselves. He just wanted to guide us to a better moral world, okay? How we can live, how we can love one another. And the rest, he knows that he knew that we are intelligent enough to understand, to find out our problems, okay? And solve them. The, for example, the scientific, you know, parts. It's all so convenient, all the answers. Want to say, we appreciate our guests. Both Apostate Prophet and Perfect Dawah are linked in the description box. As we said earlier, the most recent poll showed 65% of people do check out guest links in the description box at least once. And so, hey, if you want to learn more about their views, that includes if you're listening via the Modern Databate podcast, we put our guest links in the description box there as well. One last thank you. Apostate Prophet and Perfect Dawah, it's been a true pleasure to have you guys with us. Just, thank you so much. Thank you. I just would like to say that right away, I go live for those who want to ask me questions, you know, directly, I will be there. And AP should also, I would like to suggest you, you should also sometimes have, you know, live streams so that people ask you not that you are totally unavailable. I will, I'm live every weekend and people can call me and ask me questions directly because I'm not afraid of my beliefs, okay? I've had enough of you. I will surely not have you one. I've had enough of you. Yes, I will. But thanks everyone for watching. Thanks everyone for listening. Sorry, I'm a little bit of a jerk today. I'm very tired. I pretty much no sleep at night. But thanks so much, James, for hosting this. Thank you, Perfect Dawah, for offering this debate. Thanks everyone and stay away from Islam. Thank you everyone and follow Islam. Thank you both. We appreciate it, Anne. I'm gonna be back in just a moment, folks, with an update on upcoming debates. My dear friends, we're just getting warmed up. There's gonna be a lot of juicy ones in particular at the bottom right of your screen. Vosh and Dr. Bogartis debate next week on whether or not trans women are women. It's going to be controversial to say the least hit that subscribe button as you don't wanna miss out on that one. I'll tell you about other upcoming debates in just a moment in that post-credits scene. So stick around. My dear friends, thrilled to have you here. Mike Q922, I see you there in the old live chat. Pony Girl, glad to see you in the live chat as well. Hey there, Tooth Fairy and Jabba, happy to have you. The Moorish, glad you're here. Asri Schizophrenia, happy to have you. Jabba, good to have you with us. And Bella Nova, thanks for dropping in. Isra, good to see you again. Suman B, happy to have you. Johanna, hope you're doing well. Normand Conti, thanks for dropping in. And AA, good to see you again. Andrew Martin, happy to have you here. Terry Taylor, glad to have you with us. Al Solmo, happy your back. Great Jedi, good to see you again. Araf Jan, thanks for dropping in. Perpetually annoyed, good to see you as always. A regular here. J.Dia is good to see you. Glad to have you here. Says Daniel Hukicaju versus Dirt Perfect Dawa. Hey, maybe. We are excited about a lot of upcoming debates. I want to say hi to more of you in the old live chat, but let me tell you about some of these juicy upcoming debates in particular. I had already mentioned the one that you can see at the bottom right of your screen, but hey, there are a lot of other ones you don't want to miss out on. Let me show you some of these other examples, my dear friends. In particular, this Sunday, T-Jump and Taylor, newcomer, she's been here once before. She'll be back on Sunday. She's working on her PhD, I think in biology. She is going to be back. It's going to be a juicy one, namely a debate on, you could say, intelligent design. So I think whether you be Christian, atheist, Muslim, I think anybody would find that interesting. And thanks for coming by. Sean West says, love this. Thanks for your support as well as thanks for your support. El Solmo says, thank you, James. Always nice to be here. You're doing a great job. Thanks so much. And we hope you feel welcome, whether you be Muslim, atheist, Christian, you name it. We are striving to be a neutral platform, hosting debates on every topic where everybody will feel welcome as people get to make their case on a level playing field. That's important to us. That's our vision and we are passionate and determined to fulfill that vision. And we are just a small channel. We are grateful for all of your guys' support. It is going to be modern day debate to the moon. We are going to continue growing and pursuing that vision and providing that vision, namely providing a level playing field for everybody to make their case on YouTube. That's important to us. And I've got to say, we are so thankful for all of your support, you guys. When you do things like, hey, right now we're at 281 likes. We are only 19 likes away from 300 during the live debate, which is quite good. This is a big debate. People really showed up for this one. So that's cool. And I want to say, hey, that's one way that does help. So if you thought that your side was more persuasive today, and I'm very serious about this, and you're like, yeah, I do think my side was more persuasive today, you can hit that like button because that will make it such that more people will see this debate in which you thought that your representative was most persuasive. So if you want to help, you could say people see a strong intellectual defense of your position. Clicking that like button really does help more people see it as YouTube's algorithms do factor in the amount of likes as an indicator of how much people enjoy a video. And so that really does help, not only in terms of people seeing your side being represented in a strong intellectual way, but it also helps support the vision of the channel, which I think we all agree on these shared common values. Namely, everybody wants it to be fair. This is a nonpartisan platform. It is fair. We want to give everybody their level playing field to make their case, whether they be Muslim, atheist, Christian, or any worldview. We hope you feel welcome no matter who you are. Trump supporter, Biden backer, gay, straight, black, white, Christian, Muslim, atheist, you name it. So we are excited about the future and I've got to tell you, we are really excited about the future. Our goal, we are still not letting go of this goal. We are striving and coming up with new ideas, big time debates, in-person panels that we're going to start working on, kind of like if you guys have ever seen on Jubilee, they have the middle ground debates. We are going to work on putting together our own kind of middle ground debate videos right here where I live in town. It's going to be epic. We're excited about that. We are absolutely determined to continue striving toward hitting that goal of 100,000 subscribers by the end of the year. Believe me, we are just beginning, my dear friends. Apostate Prophet, thanks for your support. It's a modern day debate. Thank you for what you do. Poll suggestion for Daniel Huckigichu versus Apostate Prophet is Islam true. I'm open to that. I want to say, let's see. I don't want to skew it in one direction or another because Apostate or what was it? Perfect Dawa also asked for a debate with Daniel Huckigichu. I'm going to humor you. Would you most enjoy a debate between Daniel Huckigichu versus AP? Versus AP. Let's do the old copy and paste. Fair enough, all right. Perfect Dawa summarized as PD versus a common soy boy. I'll let people choose. So it is in the chat and I can ask him. I can't guarantee it. So Daniel might say, you know, I'm really busy. I don't know if I can make it work, but we do have a poll in the chat in terms of what debates you'd like to see next. Daniel Huckigichu versus AP, Daniel Huckigichu versus Perfect Dawa or Daniel Huckigichu versus a common soy boy, which could be, there are a lot of soy boys out there, a lot of people to choose from. So 13% so far for the common soy boy AP. But my dear friends, I've got to tell you, we are available via podcasts. So if you like listening to podcasts like me, like a lot of people, we are available on your favorite podcast app, no joke. We've worked really hard to get on Apple podcasts, Spotify, you name it, like we really are on virtually every single podcast app. We're serious about this. We want it to be available to anybody cause maybe you're like, you know, I love listening to modern day debate. I wish I could listen to your debates on the road. Well, you can and you're like, well, yeah, but I don't want to, you know, use up all my wifi, you know, listening to YouTube while I drive or while I'm on the train or whatever. Hey, you can listen to our debates by downloading our modern day debates on your favorite podcast app and listening to them on your commute while you exercise, while you cook, while you take a walk, maybe walking down to the beach like Sideshow Nav, really convenient, especially because it's fully ad-free. How nice is that? Cause you might be like James, James, I noticed there are ads in the YouTube video. That's true. We've put ads in the YouTube video. You're like, James, I, you know, well, hey, you've got the option. If you don't want to listen to any ads at all, the podcast is one way to do that. There's zero ads in the podcast, no joke. So, hey, that's one thing to be aware of. And we hope it's a value to you. Like that's important to us. I'm just encouraged that when I first started doing the podcast, I was like, is anybody actually using this? Cause when we started, it would get like 57 downloads per debate and now we're averaging, I think it's 2,600 downloads per debate. That's pretty big for being a fairly new podcast. It's growing really fast and that's exciting. And so we're glad that that's actually valued. People have apparently found that useful. So, in case you didn't know about that, hey, it's an option. There's nothing wrong with having options. It's a good thing. Karen Chav, good to see you in the old live chat. Glad you were here. Apostate Prophet, good to see you. Says, I want a debate on Islam. Juicy to say the least. And that poll, Daniel Hakikachu versus a common soy boy is up to 19%. People really want to see that. But I will give you credit, AP. You are leading with 60%. So that's even more. But glad you were here. Have you forgot the Uyghurs? We're glad that you are here. Yours says, will it be ever be possible to ask questions by Mike with follow-ups? Eh, I don't know. Especially with follow-ups, I don't really, I'm not super into that. The reason being, often there's people like, basically try to get into a debate with the follow-ups. And so, blue, thanks for coming by. Now, open like a mic where people are able to ask it via audio, that actually would be cool. Like, I am open to doing that. I've got to figure out how we could do that. But I am open to it. I'm sure there's a way we could. So, for real. Blue, good to see you there in the old live chat. Eh, sure. Thanks for dropping in. Heyward Jebelomi, glad to see you in the live chat again. Gannad Hibhati. Thanks for coming by. We're glad you're here, as well as Christian Prince ears and moderate Mike. Glad to have you, moderate Mike. As well as Chi H, thanks for your kind words in the chat earlier. I can't remember what it was. You said something nice. Was it about the beard? I don't know. Pony Girl says, common soy boy, LOL. Identity, glad to have you here. Thanks for dropping in. As well as King 101, glad to have you here. This is Daniel Kikachu versus Mango. We might as well address the elephant in the room. The last debate was with Apostate Prophet and Mango T was who we went against. I didn't know it beforehand, but I came convinced afterwards that Mango was not really a Muslim. And so we took that debate down. And I've got to tell you, the reason is I have no grudge against Mango T, but we don't plan on having him on again because we want, because he, you know, I asked him, are you actually a Muslim? Because we always want to make sure that people are debating things they actually believe. We tried hosting a devil's advocate debate before. The mob didn't like it. They want blood. They want people to actually have their own beliefs at stake or on the line in a debate. They're willing to step in and say, yeah, I really believe this. I'm not just defending a position. And so we, that's important to us. We've decided since that one debate where we tried it and people are like, nah, I don't really like this kind of lane. We said we're not going to do it again. It's always going to be just a straight up debate where people actually believe what they say they believe. And so I, Cypher23, good to have you here. Thanks for dropping in. And sister of Erin and daughter of Imran, thanks for dropping in as well as, there you go, there's Cycho Nav, keeping it real in the live chat. Sadie Marie, thanks for your support. Says please smash the like button. Have a wonderful afternoon. Appreciate that. Sadie is right. We're five likes away from 300. You guys, that's pretty huge. 300 live is monstrous. So we do appreciate your support that way. That is, like I said, more people will see this debate and it does. It's a way to help. If you want to do a good deed for the day, it is, you know, for real, it actually does mean something to me. Like when people do like the videos, like it actually does. Like I actually, I really do appreciate it when you guys do that. So it is in a real way a good deed that you're doing. And it is a nonpartisan platform because you might be like, screw James. But it's like, well, we don't have any videos because you might be thinking like, oh, is this like maybe you're a Muslim or a Christian? You're like, is this an atheist channel where they're gonna put out atheist videos where it's just a one-sided atheist video? Or you might be an atheist and you're thinking, oh, are they gonna put out a religious video that argues, makes the case for Islam or something like that? You know, I don't know if I want to support the channel. Or like, we don't put any videos like that out that are one-sided. It like it is, we truly have it such that it's only debates here at modern day debate. It's like, it's fully neutral. It's one thing to have a fully neutral moderator. A lot of channels have that. Like a lot of people are capable of on their channel where they put out one-sided content, which I don't think is wrong, by the way. I'm not trying to put that down. But they will also in that channel host debates and they do a great job honoring. They're fair. And by the way, you know, modern day debate is not the first debate channel. We won't be the last debate channel. That's the truth. Now I plan on doing this frankly for life. Like I love it that much. Like I just, I don't ever see myself getting tired of it. I've done it for about three years now. It's almost three years. So I enjoy it an awful lot. It's been about two years and nine months to be exact. So I am determined. Like I absolutely love it. But the point here is, there are a lot of channels that have neutral moderators. Great job. But one thing that we pride ourselves on is we say, hey, if you really want a fully neutral channel where everybody can get behind it and say, yeah, I'm happy to hit that like button because, you know, it's not going to be like James is going to drop a, you know, James is going to drop a video on his position on gun control or something like that. It's just straight up debates. And so that's something where it's like, hey, we did hit the goal. We had, we have 305 likes. Thanks for your support, you guys, seriously. That really does mean a lot. Let's see here. Yours says, will it ever be possible to ask questions by Mike with follow-ups? Oh yeah, I'm open to that. Christian Prinzears. I didn't know T-Jump talks about me. That's juicy. I mean, T-Jump and I started our channels at about the same time. So a lot of people don't know that, but I think it was about two and a half years ago. Maybe about technically two years and nine months. Tom and I were both starting our channels and but yeah, longtime guest on the old show. Prophet Ivan, son of Thor says, a good debate topic would be, do Muslims love Allah more than Muhammad? Interesting question. Moderate Mike, thanks for your kind words. This keeps up with the great work, James. Thanks for that, Moderate Mike. Thanks for hanging out here. Appreciate it. Hope you're enjoying it here at Moderate Debate and confirmed genetic. He says, hey James, invite Harris Sultan someday. We have, we've had him on before. Did you not know that? It was against Daniel Haqqikachu. It was a great debate. That one was a monster. I think that debate brought in more subscribers than any single debate we've ever had. No joke. That one was huge. Hawaiian CC, thanks for your kind words. Does James love the content? I appreciate that. Seriously, that really does mean a lot, you guys. Thanks for your support. And I like, you guys are seriously super supportive and I appreciate that. Jonathan Tarol, thanks for coming by. I see you there in the little live chat. Jason Torn, good to see you. Says, get me in the game. Glad to see you, Jason. It's a possibility. Right now it's like I'm a little bit backed up with if you're open to a tag team, Jason, that makes it easier for me to get you on. And let's see here. Lot Tornado, glad to have you with us. In fact, Jason, depending on your views, if you can be honest, don't worry. I can set you up in a debate, just be honest. It's good to be honest because like I said, we don't do devil's advocate debates. If you're an anti-theist, I've got a debate next week that I could probably get you in on. It's a tag team debate. So let me know. I'll give you a shot if you want to jump in on that one. And Lot Tornado, good to see you. And let's see here. Terry Randall, thanks for your support. Says, I hit the like twice. That's funny. Gray Jedi's a smash of like, it spreads the word. Thanks for that support, Gray Jedi, seriously. Slicer John 189, glad to have you with us, hanging out with us, we appreciate it. Thanks for Luigi. Glad to have you here. Thanks for dropping in. Friendly Muslim, thanks for your kind words. Appreciate your support. And glad you were hanging out with us. Tinkle Tink, good to have you back. Good to see you again. And then Jason Torn, yeah, Jason will give you a shot. Let's do it next week. And want to say, thank you guys for your support. Seriously, we're excited about the future. We appreciate everything. And you guys, I just have to say, you guys are so supportive. It means more than you know. And last thing before I do go, because I've got to run, I've got to, it's a weekday, people. I've got to go, but let's see here. It's a weekday in the middle of the day, Apostate Prophet said, I want it to be that way. And I was like, you know, it's really hard for me to do it. And he said it, silence. It must be. I'm kidding, you didn't say it like that. But let me show you this next debate. So tomorrow, tag team debate between Jackson, Hinkle, Infrared against Adam Something and Destiny. That's gonna be a big one. That's gonna be exciting. It's gonna be high energy. You don't want to miss that one. I'm pumped for that one. And then as I mentioned next week, Vosh versus Dr. Bogartis, you don't want to miss that one, you guys. I'm pumped for it. That's gonna be controversial to say the least. And yeah, fair warning. If it's your first time here, modern day debate is going to make you uncomfortable. Sometimes we're gonna host topics that will make you uncomfortable. We're going to sometimes host people that will make you uncomfortable. This ain't your grandma's debate channel. Like this is the real thing. And so we're giving fair warning. We do follow YouTube terms of service, but nonetheless, it is, it's true. Once in a while, it's gonna kind of push the boundaries. And so you've been warned. Hopefully that primes you and you kind of, you're ready for it and you don't get spooked off later on. JS, thanks for coming by. Says, invite King Cobra, JS on to debate gender relations. I don't know who that is, but let me search them on YouTube right now. Maybe they would be interested in coming on. I'm open to it. Let me see here, gender relations. I'm not sure what you mean by that. Okay, King Cobra, let's see. I'm open to it. I see his channel here. It's an active channel. Looks like he's still putting out videos. And also though, Alabama Slammer. Thanks for dropping in. I see you there in the old live chat. Glad to have you with us. And thank you guys though. I'm excited, Sadie Marie. Thanks for your kind words. It says, have a beautiful, we'll end it with Sadie's words. Have a beautiful Friday and a beautiful restful weekend, everyone. Please smash that like button. Thank you. Flour emoticon. So thank you guys. Love you guys. I am excited to see you at the next one, which we anticipate is gonna be tomorrow at 6 p.m. Eastern. And then we'll have another one on Sunday, as I mentioned. So I look forward to it. Thanks everybody for your support. I love you guys. Thanks for making this fun. Good to hang out with you at the old post credit scene. James119, glad to have you back. Gross Patak, good to see you again. Truth Defender is glad you made it. Spicy Roads, good to see you again. Mahoob Shabazz, thanks. Or it's Mahboob Shabazz. Thanks for coming by. Xander Reed, thanks for coming by. Glad you were here. It's a debt Christian prince to debate on your channel. I'm open to it. I just warned, I reached out to him though and he didn't respond, but I'll see. I'll double check. We get a lot of requests for him. And want to say though, thank you guys. Seriously, you make this fun. Andrew Martin, good to see you there in your live chat, as well as Soundwave CP, or Soundwave, glad to have you with us. And thank you guys. Appreciate it. You guys, I look forward to seeing you at the next one. And we're excited as we continue to pursue the vision of providing a neutral platform so that everybody can make their case on a level playing field. We'll see you next time, folks.