 Yes, welcome back. This is still why in the morning. My name is Ram Magukko, if at all you're just joining us and of course you're just in time for the next conversation of the day and it's all about matters concerning mental health. And in this particular conversation, I am with Zipora Wanyeki, a counselor, she is a teacher and of course a trainer at Baton of Hope. And of course she is here to shed more light in regards to matters concerning mental health. How are you? I'm good. I'm also good, good to see you. You are considering so much on the welfare of the well-being of somebody. Very much, very much. It's important. How people are sick. Are you aware? Okay, so how am I doing? I'm doing well. Yes, yes. I'm doing well. Good, good. If somebody asks you, how are you? People always say, I'm fine. I'm fine. Is it possible for us to establish how fine somebody is? And of course, as we start this conversation on mental health, how best can you pick out signs of somebody who is not mentally healthy? Even though they have answered the question, I'm fine. Thank you. There are so many ways that you can be able to know that somebody is not doing well in as much as they say I'm fine. It is African when we are greeted. It is only Katias that we say we are doing fine. But you know that maybe when we look at you, you don't look like it when you're not healthy. And maybe we can tell people maybe the symptoms to look for when you hear somebody is depressed. Because they believe you would want us to talk about probably a depressed person and how we can know them. One way that you can know this person is depressed and is not doing well is sadness. Sadness. And it can be read from your face. I can tell you doing fine by the way you appear. By the way you dress. By the way you're doing your things. So it doesn't need a lot of rocket science to know that somebody is not doing very... But you know sometimes we can misjudge. I know you've seen how some people can look at somebody and they say I'm not doing well. But the child is actually okay. Do we have such cases of misjudging? When you're not mentally fine, you may not pretend. And even if you tend to pretend, you know I always tell people there are these friends that we have and they come and say how are you? Ramu nendele aje. Nikotu poa. No you're not fine. Because we can tell, there are things that we can look and you cannot pretend for long. For example this person who breaks down for no proper reason. You're crying. But you don't even know why you're crying. You are constantly sad. But we can't even tell why you're constantly sad. This person who all of a sudden used to be having some boys out, loves cinemas and such. All of a sudden gets reserved. Anata kukapike ake. It does not enjoy anything. This person we can tell is not doing very well. As you point. Today this is mental health awareness. Yes, yes. And I want to speak it at a different angle this time. Where we talk about the solutions, how best you can help them. Because I know yes, we've managed to talk about how best you can pick the signs up, the signs and the symptoms. But now we've never touched on the solution. How to handle. How do you help this person? Yes, how do you help this person? Sure, sure. When you realize that they are not mentally healthy. What is the best solution to handle it? Because we need to also avoid stigmatization. True, true. Now that we have to do how to look for. How to know your friends are ailing and you are now able to, there are some things that you are able to look for in them. How you can be able to help this person who is constantly sad. Who is not speaking. Who has no energy to wake up. A depressed person has no energy to wake up or do work or do what. They are not interested. They don't feel like they have been in a state of hopelessness for too long. So number one way that you can help this person is let this person have support. Support. By the loved ones. One of the characteristics of a depressed person is they tend to move away from people. They are loners. They enjoy their own company. Crying, thinking, all those things. Feeling empty and depressed. Now this person you can help by trying to befriend him or her. By making sure that they are constantly supported. The other day we were doing a show on loss. Somebody was just lost a relative. And you know the Kenyan style. Somebody has died. Umibaki pekiako. That depression can make you depressed. So if you want to help that person. Make sure that you form a serious support group for this person. So make sure that if it's a lady who has lost the husband. Hajatua pekiake. Get somebody to stay with this person. They are able to talk. The more you talk, the more you occupy your brain. So you visit them regularly? Yes. Even having this person. If possible we actually advocate. You can even share bed if it's a lady. Yes. The person who has been left. Imagine this person who was spending the night with the husband in the same bed. Now the husband is in the grave. But the same bed remains. What do you think of that room? So get somebody who comes inside that room. And probably spend time with this lady. Until she's able to heal. And vice versa even for men. So who is it that is best suited to do such a thing? Because many consider that to be a bit too close in terms of privacy. Who are the best persons who are best suited for this? Okay. I'll say this. That's a difficult question. But this is Nairobi. This is Kenya. Everybody is working. The best people who would have done that were the immediate children. The sons, the daughters. But now it's not possible because you have to work. Even after this loss, you have to go to work. But at least you can get a friend who can just come and stay with you and work with you through this journey. Is best suited for that. As long as you get somebody who can be there. Somebody you can talk to. Avoid being lonely. It will kill you. You will be dead by the time you come to realize. Because you tend to overthink. So support system is very important. All right. What other solution do you have for mental health? Because now we also have others who are... It is not about death. It's about matters concerning financial constraints. Sure, sure. We were looking at how to help these people who find themselves in such situation. Let's talk about this person who is in depression because of the current state of finances. The economy of Kenya is not doing very well. People are suffering. I always say that if this one person who is affected is the man, he is the breadwinner and he has an ego to protect. So your wife expects that you are providing for her, feeding the family and everything. And you can't do that. You feel crushed. You feel emotionally drained. It breaks you. And sometimes you feel less of a man. Yes. And if you are having these ladies that you have to... I mean, where are you here? We need to stop... Are you not aware that there are men outside there who can do it better than you? You feel bad. You feel crushed. I mean, kuna mutu aneza wamuki ya? Especially the Nairobi ladies. Oh, they can be something. So how do you help this man who is struggling? Number one, it is always good to accept. We have come from a pandemic. People have lost jobs. People have lost status. Businesses. People have even relocated to shags. And so if you are living in a house that maybe was way too high, there is no harm in rescheduling your life. You will come back. You are the same person who was working. It is good to accept your situation. So don't hear yourself namadeni that you are living in Kiriteswa and the house was worth 100,000. There is no harm if you come back to a cheaper house. And you know they end up taking so many loans that they get themselves fixed. They adapt to your depression. So we keep on telling them it is important that you assess your life. Reorganize your goals. Set attainable goals. You are earning 1M. You are not able to make that kind of money. Set attainable goals. And actually what these goals do, they motivate you. If you are able to hit small milestone, you become motivated. Wow, wow, wow. Let's talk about work related issues. For those who are working or having a business and things are not working out the way they expect and they are going through as a season of depression. Solution for them that can be applied. Thank you. You realize that I was telling the lady that there are two types of stress. Okay, there are many. But basically we can classify into what you call U-stress and distress. U-stress is good stress. What do you mean? U-stress is good stress. You need your body, your system requires some amount of stress to operate. Why did you wake up? It's because you're coming to look for bread. Yes. That is good stress. If you were not there, you would become obese. You'd be sleeping the whole day, turning this way, this way. So you require some amount of stress to... I mean, now these good stress is you have some goals to attain. You're hoping by December you'll have done this. Now that is good stress. Oh, yes. Now distress is now the bad stress. When it makes you stop living your normal life, that becomes distress. So you hear somebody is distressed. And somebody made fun of what I said. Yes, even babies can be stressed. I remember there's a time we said that. Oh, yeah, you said babies can be stressed. Why do you think Ram will hold a baby and the baby will look at you and cries? Na ha kujui? He's only communicating. I don't know you. Baby, your face is stressing the baby. No, not really. The baby is trying to communicate amuse to mami's voice and to mami's face. I can't recognize this version of you. The baby cries. They don't have another language. Animals do get stressed anyway. Are you aware? Animals do get stressed. In Mombasa, I went to a place where there was some people cleaning a hala park. They were cleaning the snake houses. I asked how do you clean a snake house? I asked you when the snake is not stressed. All right. So anybody can be stressed. So when you're at work, how do you solve this problem? Yes, now the stress that you're getting from work you need to find out, is it getting you emotionally what you call burnout? Is it that you're not achieving? Is it that you're not hitting targets? Is it that you set a target that was way too high? Are you getting? Because most of the people have issues with the time management. You are to meet a deadline. You are unable to meet a deadline. And so here you are, staring in the middle of the night to type and send emails and everything and it's not working. So one of the best ways that you can handle your job is one, time management. Manage your time very well. Very very well. And I always tell people don't carry work home. What was meant to be in the office, do it in the office. What was meant to be at home, do it at home. When you start doing vice versa, I can imagine you ramsasu kwa pahumebe, but you took your gear, unafuafuangu. That was meant to be done at home. So when you start mixing because you didn't manage your time well, that is why you carried some work at home. Manage your time very well. Do what is supposed to be done at the right place. At the right time and also is important that you cultivate some social group even in workplaces. People who can cover up for you, people who can assist you, you are away and you can't finish this task. Somebody can step in and do it for you. What is your final word, parting short when it comes to mental health? It is mental health awareness month and I want you to talk to that youth watching it today. Let me just say to our youth that you need to reach out to them. Number one, most people have been depressed and stressed because of what you call self concept, self image, the appearance. I don't know who told our youth that you have to be this body size or you have to be like this so that you can fit in the society. Somebody made fun that midimipiatrapia binguni. So do not stress yourself over something. When too much is too much, go to a counselor, go to a therapist, seek help, avoid staying alone. Manage your diet, manage your lifestyle, know what you do, do what you like best, set your time, set your target very well and stay motivated. We should have this conversation even more. Thank you so much. That is Zepora Wanyeki joining us today in this particular conversation. She is a counselor, a teacher and of course also a trainer. Thank you so much Zepora for coming. You're welcome. That represents to the end of this conversation but we still have more coming up your way. Keep it one in the morning.