 Great, you know, first of all, I want to thank Phenos for hosting this session. We're very excited to be here. My name is David Eric, and I'm the Executive Director of AIR, which is the Alliance for Innovative Regulation. And I'm here with my good friend and colleague, Ian Hollowbred from ING. Ian, do you want to just give yourself a quick intro? Yeah, hi everyone, I'm Ian Hollowbred and I head up, I'm Reg Taker, ING Labs and it's an initiative which we started roughly a year and a half ago to really develop and emerging technologies to solve and promote emerging technologies to solve real business problems. And we're progressing these technologies across the industry and very much internally within our organization as well. That's great. And we're here today and Ian, in particular, one of the areas that we both work on very closely is this notion of regulation innovation, which many people think is an oxymoron. And together, we've been trying to really uncover the ways in which regulation and the regulators across the United States and jurisdictions around the world are beginning to innovate. And I wonder if you could say a few words, Ian, on what you see as the kind of global trends and innovation today. Yeah, I think as an industry, obviously we all struggle to meet the consistent change in demands of regulation. For an organization like ING, we operate in 40 plus markets and global regulations constantly changing in those markets. And it's how do we address those changes and how do we ensure we are compliant with those changes together? And I think what we've seen in the past is we've seen regulators take a very proactive approach in terms of innovation. We've seen financial institutions take a proactive approach in terms of innovation. And we've seen startups and red techs emerging, which solve fundamental problems. But it's a very fragmented environment and we think actually it's an environment where we believe that open source can really help drive and promote sustainability in the industry. And really it's one place where we can access all together rather than these kind of point and isolated approaches from different regions and different geographies. Open source bias nature allows everyone to participate and everyone to benefit from this. So this really our hope that this group and we hope that people join us on this journey to really promote the great work that's already going on in open source in the industry and new work that we can potentially build upon. So for those of you who are just joining, Ian and I have been the co-leads for the new special interest group, the new SIG on red tech. And we're really excited to share that with you and we hope that you'll come and join us at our next meeting which is going to be on Tuesday, November 24th and you can get the information in the GitHub. But as a context for the conversation that we wanna have today, we have two guest regulators with us or at least we are hoping to have two guests for regulators with us. And both of these regulators are regulators that have really established regulation innovation as a primary priority for their agencies and they have been really forward thinking and have been exercising new tools to try to help regulators and regulatory agencies really engage with new technologies. And some of those tools that we're gonna be touching on today include sandboxes and tech sprints and other topics that we're going to be looking at. Matt Lowe, I wanna kind of just pass the baton over to you as a representative from the Financial Conduct Authority in the UK. I think the FCA has really been recognized as a thought leader in regulation innovation. And I wonder if you could share with us a little bit about how you think about your regulation innovation strategy and the tools that you have been pioneering and using to drive regulation innovation. Yeah, sure. So where I come from within the whole innovation department within the FCA, I sit within what's called the RegTech and Advanced Analytics team, which we look at innovation in terms of what we call subtech, which is like your internal development and the tools that you might create for the regulator use. And we also look at RegTech. And part of the program for the RegTech team is we host these things called hackathon tech sprints, which is essentially just a fancy word for a hackathon. Sorry, the dogs are gonna go off in a minute. So we might have a bit of noise in the background. But anyway, the whole point of a hackathon is to try and bring together some industry experts who work on a particular problem or solution that we might want to try and build out over a period of say two to three days. Our journey has been one that's probably taken around about five years to get to where we are now. And when we first started this program, we started off with smaller events. We had maybe 20 to 40 individuals. They're quite open in terms of the participants we'd bring in, but we'd be a little bit more free in terms of what problem we're trying to solve. As we've gone through that journey and we've now done seven tech sprints, it's got more complicated and it's got bigger. So if I was to give you an example of the one we did on money laundering or finance crime, which we worked with Air last year on, we had approximately 180 participants. And that was during the actual duration of the tech sprint, went for three days. And then in the final day, we had a further c-suite of another probably 200 participants who were actually seeing some of the solutions that have been developed. Now the whole objective there was to try and look at how we could open up data sharing between different institutions using something called property enhancing technologies. And what we wanted to do is see if we could unlock those technologies to try and combat money laundering and finance crime. So I go on David. No, I was just gonna say that event in the US was a watershed event. The tech sprint on any money laundering, which was really focused on human trafficking was the first time that US regulators had an opportunity to see a tech sprint first hand in the US. So the Alliance for Innovative Regulation, my organization partnered with the FCA with you guys to actually deliver that tech sprint in the US. And it was an extraordinary moment because the regulators get to see first hand the kind of collaboration that takes place when you bring together a technologist with technology expertise and a subject matter expert. The subject matter expert doesn't have visibility or awareness of what technology can provide. And technology doesn't have visibility onto the kinds of challenges that regulators are facing. So when you bring them together and sit them down at the same table and provide them with an intensive problem solving opportunity over a short period of time where you're required to deliver a particular prototype, what happens is explosive. It's really exciting and really engaging for the participants. And it's an incredible tool to build collaboration and to break down the silos between different stakeholders that really don't spend enough time together. Yeah, absolutely. And that's something that we've noticed that, and that's why I think they get so big. And because the industry see that this is a great way to convene, to try and solve those problems and those private partnerships start to form. So yeah, they've been really useful for us as a regulator to try and tackle some of those bigger problems. We obviously, we are in a different world now with COVID and doing something in a physical location is not possible at the current point in time. So we're exploring ways of doing things virtually and I guess the latest thing that we've done which is virtual in the sense of trying to innovate is what we did with the data sprint earlier this year but had a slightly different objective where we're trying to create some data sets for the digital sandbox but we can talk about that a little bit later. Well, why don't we spend a minute talking about what the key learnings have been from tech sprints? I mean, the FCA has done seven or eight tech sprints, did you say? Yeah, so we've done seven tech sprints and one data sprint, I guess. So it's actually on style of events, we've probably done eight, just slightly different models. And what are the key learnings? So I guess, well, you can actually go to our website and there's a paper that's called Fostering Innovation Through Collaboration and that goes through some of the key learnings that we've got from the tech sprint model and talks about like some of the issues that we face in terms of trying to bring together that the environments, like the data, trying to get together the right people into the room, setting up like industry working groups to help being that subject matter expertise throughout the event. And also, I guess, some of the learnings that we have found this will play somewhat into the digital sandbox and there might be a bit of flow here but essentially what we found is that we do this really good event that goes for two to three days. It's fantastic, you get a lot of buzz, you get a lot of energy. And then, like on the last day, we almost shut down the whole environment. So all the participants lose access to the data, they lose access to the environment. And then it's, I mean, we do play some role in observing some of the proof of concepts that come out of it, but what we find is that we can lose some of that momentum. So what we're looking to do is explore other ways that we can keep the infrastructure up and keep the data there and then you can continue to develop going forwards. So like once we go on. Sorry, Matt, I think that's a great way to like kind of segue into the work that we're trying to achieve in Finos because actually those that learnings and outcomes, we believe some of that can move into an open source kind of approach and an open source model and where we're looking to take it is so there's a continuous work and continuous development in some of these initiatives which may have been proved out by some of your excellent work within the text prints. And I think like some of the aspects you talk about around getting the communities together and the collaboration together, like then there suddenly becomes a landing spot across the globe that allows these projects if they're open by nature to really be put the boundaries to be pushed and ask to continuous work along these initiatives because I've experienced the learnings from the text prints that you've done. And I think they're great but obviously we need to continue like you say that momentum. Yeah, and we need to have the right tools to be able to continue that work. And if that's Finos or if it's the digital sandbox environment that we're looking to create then there needs to be the tools for innovators to come in and continue some of that really good work to go from proof of concept to proof of value. So they're actually developing something and then they're able to demonstrate further develop beyond the boundaries of a text print. I think I see our other guest here. We have a guest regulator from the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau and Jennifer Lasseter, is that you? Hi, I'm here, I'm alive. That's great and we can hear you, that's perfect. So Jennifer, we were just talking about text prints and how regulators have been using text print as an innovation tool and the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau in the US has just been working on creating a text print strategy and just last month in October you launched your first text print, particularly on consumer disclosures. And I was wondering if you could share with us about that experience and what some of your key learnings were from that. Oh, sure. So I first must say it's such an honor to be on the panel with these folks and the reason that that's relevant is because a lot of the text print work that the Bureau did in preparation and execution in October was because of the pioneering that the FCA did, their publishing of their text print paper and then also the toolkit and text print manual that AIR published following FCA's paper and is available on AIR's website. So thank you to both of those organizations for really giving us a great roadmap to follow. I would say in terms of additional boxes that needed to be checked before we could embark on the text print, really getting the buy-in from senior leadership at the Bureau. And what I mean by buy-in is agreement and understanding and the potential value for text prints as a model for interacting with regulated institutions and industry and other audiences that the Bureau serves. And that was a big lift and I have to applaud Director Craninger because it really was signing off on something that didn't have a very neatly predicted outcome and signing off on something with an unpredicted outcome that would have a very public facing impact. So we received permission from her to move forward in January of this year and we have three goals for our program. One is to, and I'm gonna read these to be accurate, develop actionable technology focused solutions to a variety of regulatory and consumer protection challenges. Two, harness technology to reduce burden, improve results and create greater efficiencies across financial markets. And three, explore how technology can reshape compliance and speed effective interaction between regulators and financial institutions. So in many ways, the Bureau was really set up to run fast and hard towards these goals. We have an open source by default strategy in place and it has been for a long time, thankful to a very innovative development team led by our development lead, Adam Scott. So we started off and I will just say we got to sign off from the director in January. We use the summer. In June, we announced the problem statement. We use the summer for recruitment and to refine the problem statement and do the logistical planning. And then we executed in October and we ended up with 13 teams and 82 participants which was far beyond what we anticipated when we started off on this initial journey. We thought start small, don't bite off more than we can chew. But the appetite was so strong in terms of our external audiences wanting to interact with a regulator in this way and it really was promising. And then after we executed in October, there's a couple, we had a couple goals that we were looking for. One, just execute the week, make it through the week, no technical difficulties. Two, we wanted to push industry to innovate on adverse action notices, give them an incentive to pay attention to this topic. And three, we wanted to modernize. We wanted to demonstrate and strengthen this model of collaboration. We wanted to spur application to our Office of Innovation Trial Disclosure Program and which is near and dear to my heart, we wanted to prove that there's value in this process, that we could be creative with industry and then we could pay that creativity forward into data for policymaking purposes. I'm happy to talk about how we've achieved those goals but I don't wanna be a time hog. So, David, you tell me what's best for this discussion. Well, I think to highlight some of the points that you were making is how powerful the collaboration was. I got an email from one of the participants in the CFPB Tech Sprint, where he opened up with, I am a Tech Sprint Convert. How fun and creative these environments are and how they really unleash people's problem solving and creative juices. And it's really a remarkable process. If you have not been involved in a hackathon or a Tech Sprint, I highly recommend it. But one of the things- I think what was the great thing is, the other great thing is that it's beginning to demonstrate like real impacts as well. And it's actually actionable actions coming out of these. Like if you look at the FCA and MATS work, there is actually a sandbox now environment that firms can really participate on. So whereas before, like you mentioned in the closed down, like with Jennifer's work, there is an action of an open source nature coming out from it so that we can all learn and benefit from it. So there's really actions and we're moving away from those talking points to actually what can the industry benefit from this and what can financial institutions, what can regulators and what can the startup communities benefit. And I think that's the big difference as we've gone through the evolution on the innovation journey today. And Matt, you have, I don't know if this is public information, but you've launched the application process for the DigiSandbox and I understand that you've been overwhelmed with requests for participation. Yeah, I can go one step further, David. We've launched the application process so we've closed the application process down. We actually received 94 applications, which is, we had a little running bet within the office about how many we would get. I said 75 is off by about 20, so I lost, but essentially, yeah, it was a big success in terms of like how many that shows that the industry are looking for something like this. We can only accept 30 in and we've just decided who they are and they will get notified on Monday. And then from there, we give them access to the environment from the 23rd of this month. And what that gives them access to is a series of features in terms of, similar to what you provide in a text print, synthetic data assets, which we've gone to great lengths to create and try to make as realistic as possible. And in terms of like the sorts of data assets that we're looking at, we've created five fictional UK banks, which covers around about 400 million transactions over the course of a year. We've created like, I guess a synthetic world, which looks somewhat like the UK, but a little bit different. And I kind of always term this in the way, I don't know if anybody's a Game of Thrones fan, but at the start of Game of Thrones, you see this opening sequence and it looks kind of like medieval UK or Europe. And then it, but it doesn't, and that's kind of what we're trying to create with this synthetic data asset. So we've shrunk down the UK population to about 7 million synthetic individuals that represent demographically what the UK looks like. And then we're making that about all those data assets available to solve these three use cases that we're going after for the pilot itself. And so that's like one feature. And then there's other features in terms of like collaboration features and anybody can register and have a look and see what the teams are doing within the environment. So there's an opportunity for them to showcase some of their work. There's also an opportunity for people to connect. So we've created a lot of collaboration features. So originally I was kind of terming this as like the Amazon for Rectex and FinTechs. And now I'm kind of term it, the term I'm using, it's like the LinkedIn for FinTechs and Rectex and combining that all together to make this really valuable product. That's great. What kind of dog do you have? I have two noisy ones. That's awesome. David, I'll play his cat up in a minute. For those of you who are watching, I have a cat who likes to sit on my shoulder, but he's busy at the moment. Both of you at the FCA and at the CFPB, you've both had a tremendous opportunity to explore TechSprints and really see the benefits of TechSprints. But you've also had to engage the challenges of actually setting up a TechSprint and overcoming some of the challenges of bringing market participants in to work with regulators. And so starting with the CFPB Jennifer, what kind of challenges did you face when you were kind of engaging market participants and trying to promote participation in the TechSprint? Sure. So I think I must applaud our TechSprint team because they made over a thousand phone calls in the month of July to various audiences in the US to talk about the problem statement and the TechSprint as a model. Part of it was because we had originally planned to host it as a traditional TechSprint format in the spring before COVID-19 hit. And then we moved to a virtual format and we wanted to understand what people would be looking for in terms of engaging in a virtual manner with the intent of still achieving the same outcome. We also wanted to pressure test with them the problem statement and make sure that it was a problem statement that they were interested in and capable of tackling. We wanted to stress to them that we were not looking for companies to come and apply as Company X to participate in the Sprint. We wanted teams to be multidisciplinary and have a variety of experts around the table contributing to the problem solving that week. I would, and I will say the softer side of the conversations and concerns that we heard which I think were just as critical as those logistical pieces I just discussed were what is in it for me as an institution or an individual to participate in the Sprint? Why would I wanna do that? I am afraid that I'm opening myself up to regulatory scrutiny if I participate in this space with you. What kind of media and publicity might my institution receive if it is heard that we are collaborating in this way with a regulator? So I think those questions are very real and it's really important to speak directly to them when you're talking to people and generating interest and engagement around a particular Tech Sprint. Yes, I think that, air just recently produced a Tech Sprint on cryptocurrency and its ability to limit the distribution of child sexual abuse materials. And while we heard that from participants that this was really a life-changing event to be involved in something that was so mission driven and had such high impact for individuals, at the same time, you're trading off many different risks in terms of participation, especially when you're a covered entity working with a regulatory body. Matt, what are some of your experiences having produced so many different Tech Sprints? What are some of your experiences in trying to convince market participants to participate? It's funny enough, it's always, I'm always surprised about how many participants we do get that are generally interested in trying to solve these problems. I'm always, we always get to a stage where we're having to knock a lot of people back. And that's generally, I think, because the people that want to get involved in solving these problems, and especially when it comes to something like money laundering and financial crime, it's a very big problem, it's a global issue, it needs to be, it needs a global effort. So to actually reach out to that community, I found it quite easy to bring them all in. Don't get me wrong, there have been Tech Sprints that haven't been as successful and maybe they're not as appealing when it comes to the actual use case or problem statement. We had done one previously, which was quite difficult to generate a lot of interest. And maybe the topic wasn't as interesting as money laundering and financial crime, but if the use case is compelling enough, you will find you can convene the industry around that particular problem. It also gives them an opportunity to show off some of their technology to a broader audience. So we always, I sort of briefly mentioned this before, like the C-suite on the last day where you present these solutions, that's really important in terms of like trying to make sure that there's an audience which can go some way to either help push the development of that product further or just in general, to start making some of those connections and getting the whole industry to work around that problem outside of the realms of the text frame. Yeah. And can I, David, can I just add a comment there, which is one of the flip sides is when you extend your reach outside of just covered entities or regulated entities and you start to include your community advocates and other community, for us consumer-based organizations, they, it makes a very interesting conversation. So for our evaluation panel, we had representatives across the board, including community advocacy. And what it did was invite a conversation that I think normally wouldn't happen around the tensions of a particular application of technology. And for the Bureau, it's very important to hear those conversations play out and understand the perspectives of those respective constituencies and be able to take that into consideration as conversations unfold internally around application of that information in the rulemaking process. So I don't know of another space, at least one that is that public where you have those two bodies of people who don't normally come together to collaborate on a topic in a non-combatative way. And I found that to be very valuable. So Ian, I wonder if this is a moment to pivot. We've spoken a bit about the kinds of innovation tools that regulators are beginning to embrace. And one of the challenges that we talked about earlier is how to make sure that those innovation exercises live on and have an opportunity to gain traction. And one of the ways to do that is through open source. And Ian, I wonder if you could revisit the comments that you made a little bit earlier about the role of open source here, particularly for regulators and the interaction of regulators and market participants. Yeah, I mean, Jennifer, I think I mentioned this before, but what I was saying earlier is obviously it's great the work that the FCA are doing and it's great the work that you're doing, but actually for firms that are international by nature, a multi-geography, then there's not always the same level of maturity in regulation innovation. But actually those global firms want need to adopt standards and need to meet the regulatory requirements. And we need to report to, I don't know, 40, 50 different regulators. So how do you ensure that we do that successfully? And I think what we believe, the work that's coming out of FINOS and we've seen financial institutions put their code into open source and the data modeling code. And we've seen the work that's been going on in the FDC-3 interoperability working groups across different domains that not necessarily regulation. But potentially the impact, if you put that on regulation, could be significant. And if there's a place and the work that FINOS is doing and is driving from an industry perspective, if you can open that in the compliance risk and regulatory domains, then we think that there's significant gains that can be made from an industry as a whole. And some of these, whether it's the tech firms or whether it's the financial institutions or even if it's the regulators, that actually there's a place that we can share internationally for the benefit of all. And Jennifer, I know that the CFPB, for those of you who aren't familiar with the different US regulatory agencies, the CFPB is the newest of the US regulators to be stood up. And one of the benefits of being a new regulatory agency is that they are not hindered by the legacy technology and the legacy risk that many of our financial institutions and financial regulators are kind of strapped with. And Jennifer, I wonder if you could talk a little bit about the history of open source at the CFPB and how the CFPB uses open source today. Well, I'm not gonna talk about the history specifically because I'm gonna encourage everyone to come to the conversation after this where my two bureau colleagues will join me in having that exact discussion. So a little bit of a teaser if you haven't chosen your session yet for noon. But I will say in how it's used today, so I posted in the Slack channel, I forget which channel it is exactly, but the one that pertains to policy and regulation, a link to CFPB's GitHub. On that GitHub, you will see all of our open source work. Please feel free to comment. And I will say that where we are today is that we are in a place where we are open source by default. So there are certain criteria that if they are checked, then there is a conversation about not having open code. But for the most part, we are approaching situations that we will be coding in the open and we will encourage participation and feedback from the public accordingly. One of the places where we've seen cross-agency collaboration and we're hoping to pick it up and encourage it further is around our interactive regulations work or our machine-readable regs. And this is work that we had started every time I say this, I surprised myself, but about eight years ago and really kind of pioneered the space of how do we make regulations machine-readable? And of course the definition for how they are machine-readable varies now from what it is now, from what it was eight years ago. But that code is open and we have seen other agencies in the US work with that code and apply it internally. And it still is used as foundational code in a few agencies to this day. So we'd like to do more of that. And that open source application, I can't remember earlier today, I think I heard someone say we really wanna build off of each other. One of the things that is special for the Bureau is that we also have an in-house full-stack dev team that is about 40 people for federal full-time employees. And then we supplement with an almost equal number of contractors. No other regulators that I know of in the US have that kind of staff available to them as full-time federal employees. And that is a resource that I think if we can figure out how to kind of build off of each other's work and leapfrog from our various efforts that we will be able to share with the rest of the regulatory community. So we shall see what the future brings. I think it is bright. And Matt, the FCA has also been a pioneer in machine executable and machine-readable regulation. And I wonder if you could share with us the story of the text print that you did on that. Yeah, so we were exploring what we now call digital regulatory reporting. It was called MDMER or something which was a bit of a mouthful to say at the time. So we shortened it somewhat. But yeah, we did explore that in a text print back in November of 2017. This was before I joined the team. So I've just gotta try and pull together some of the information I know from my prior knowledge. But essentially we went through, we did a text print. We tried to prove out that you could actually, that machine-readable and machine-executable reporting could be done. And the final day we demonstrated that with by changing one of our policy instructions and then that actually pulled in different data according to that. So we proved that it could work. Then we ran a series of pilots. We did two pilots and we expanded on the scope of the actual proof of concept to try and bring in some further data. And then it's now in a position where we're actually looking to try and integrate that within the FCAE internally. Now it's not so open source and say CFPB, but what we're looking to do is think about sharing at least our learnings with the Bank of England and with ourselves and the GFIN community so that we can look to expand some of that work as well. You know, we're an acronym-free zone here. Sorry, Global Financial Information Network. Which is what? It's a community of regulators, an international community of regulators who are getting together and we just discuss things like supervisory tech or reg tech and actually look at some cross-border testing. So it's got quite a broad scope but it's quite unique in terms of the conversation across the international community. Yeah, that's excellent. You know, my co-founder at AIR, Joanne Barefoot was at the Tech Sprint in 2017. I think that it's commonly referred to as the moonshot. And she likes to say that, you know, what was amazing was when they finally executed the code and it actually came through. You had a participating bank that was able to actually develop a report based on code that was delivered as regulatory requirements. And when it actually executed, the entire room filled with regulators and compliance officers cheered. And when do you see regulators and compliance officers in a room cheering together? It's a very unusual set. Yes, something's gone right. Yeah, and I think you can actually say that on the website as well. There is the video and at the very end of that video of that tech. On the FCA website. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that it might still be up. I haven't looked at it for a long time, but at the very end of it, you can see that moment. And I really encourage all of you to go there. It's a very unique moment in regulatory market participant collaboration. Matt, where do you see open source being useful for the FCA moving forward? You know, as you think about the future of open source, how is the FCA thinking about that? Yeah, so obviously there's the digital sandbox where we would be exploring different solutions. And we always encourage open source in terms of the development of any of those solutions that go through. Not all of the teams will want to do that. Some of them have proprietary technologies that they'd want to use. So they might hold on to that. So we are kind of at least a promoter of open source in that way. I mean, in terms of open source that we use internally at the FCA, our advanced analytics team, which is otherwise known as Subtech, they do use open source in some of the work that they're doing. But they are looking at ways that they can maybe be a little bit more open with that global financial innovation network on some of the work that they've been doing in the future so that we can actually share some of our learnings across that whole community of international regulators. So I guess that's kind of where we're thinking we'd be going in terms of open source, but it's only probably a smaller community within the FCA that are actually using it. It's not, it's not broadened out to the whole wide FCA. I mean, go on Jennifer. Oh, I just wanted to build on that. And I just wanted to make a note because I know that the concept of enterprise wide open source policy can be very daunting even if you believe 100% in the principles. And so to Matt's point, I wanna call out there are degrees of open source that you can follow as you are developing your strategy. It doesn't have to be fully jumping into that pool. For us, for example, even amongst the regulatory community, the CFPB has had a very fruitful collaboration with the FCA. And I would consider those conversations to be open source in nature just between our two agencies. Likewise, the example that Matt provided which is collaborating in a text print style or similar conversation with one or two specific institutions and allowing them to keep their information proprietary and confidential and working with them in that manner where they are being transparent with us as a regulatory body and vice versa, but in a very protected and small bubble. That is a step towards open source. As you bring your regulatory legal community along specifically within regulators, giving them some baby steps and proving the value of that relationship will help you work towards that larger open source state. Yeah. Yeah, we at ARRA we like to say, think big but start small. And so we've had an opportunity today to really see how regulators are really engaging in innovation and using technology innovation in terms of not only understanding what they need to regulate but also integrating new technology into how they regulate and being able to do a better job of regulation. I think the promise of technology innovation for regulators is lowering the costs for all of the different parties involved and improving the outcomes of what we want regulation to be and what we want regulation to be able to manage. Ian, I wonder if we could use this as an opportunity to shamelessly pug the SIG and the work that we're hoping to do with the Special Interest Group. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's what we're here for, isn't it? So obviously what we want is individuals coming together who have got expertise and really trying to drive open source nature. And I think what I've observed in the kind of past year or two is that it's becoming ever more progressive in the industry. We are beginning to see financial institutions and we've seen today that like the Deutsches, Goldman Sachs and other institutions progressively moving to open source and putting it on platforms such as Finos. And I think the opportunity for us to do more of this is here now. And I think this is a great group and hopefully we will get more members that are looking to join it that have the same view as us to really move this forward as an industry because we truly believe that open source regulators don't set regulation for one institution. They set it for multiple institutions. We as an industry need to work together closely together and we need to be more open if we're really going to progress. Which is just great. So if you walk away from this session with one key learning it is definitely that regulators are engaged in the conversation around innovation and how to use technology to drive that innovation. I wanna remind you that the next session is Jennifer Lasseter and her colleagues from the CFPB. So please join them if you wanna hear about the history of open source at the CFPB which is a fascinating story. I also wanna remind you that our next meeting for the SIG on REGTAC is gonna be on Tuesday, November 24th at 12 noon ET Eastern time. And you can go ahead and get information or sign up for that through the GitHub link. But essentially we are really excited Ian and I are really excited to host the SIG and we really encourage participation. If you wanna be a troublemaker like us, come join us on Tuesday, November 24th. And a big thank you to Matt and Jennifer as well for sharing their insights on the TechSprint and open source has been like very valuable. Really appreciate. Matt, any closing notes? Yeah, I was just gonna do my own shameless plug if that's all right, David. Absolutely. If you want to get involved in the digital sandbox pilot then you just have to go to www.digitalsandbox.co.uk Sorry, digital sandbox pilot.co.uk And then you can, I mean, anybody can register. You can see some of the features that we're looking to explore. And that's kind of like a, it's an evolution of our thinking in terms of where we're trying to push innovation within the FCA. Which is just great. Jennifer, any closing thoughts? I was just gonna say thank you. It is always a pleasure to join these brilliant minds and have this conversation. And I'm always humbled by the number of people that I see in the audience is the curiosity that remains when we have a discussion around this topic. It gives me great hope for the future. And we haven't lost a single participant, which is amazing. For those of you who are interested in learning more about TechSprints, the FCA has a really great paper on innovation and the role that TechSprints pay in innovation. So I strongly recommend that you look that up and air the Alliance for Innovative Regulation. We have a TechSprint manual, which is more of a tactical how-to production guide for regulators on how to produce TechSprints. So with that, thank you very much. We really appreciate your time today. We hope this was really valuable. And we hope that you enjoy the rest of your time at OSSF. Thank you, David. Bye, James, bye. Bye, friend.