 to pray together. And then we will get our class started. Good morning, everyone. Welcome. Could somebody please pray with the class? Thank you. Let's pray. Well, Father. Let's go ahead. Shall I go? Shall I go ahead? Go ahead, Madam. Well, Father, we thank you a lot for this morning. Thank you for your presence in this fingers of the Lord. But as we are ready to hear from the servant, open our hearts a lot, to receive the words spoken by him, that we may receive well within our hearts, that it may be embedded in our lives, Father, that we may bear good food by interpreting the scripture as rightful, and by teaching others rightfully. Bless this class, Father. Help every one of us to be greatly benefited by this class in doing the mission. Let's pass it on to you. Thank you for your presence in this moment. Amen. Amen. Amen. Thank you. OK. Good morning, everyone. Thank you for connecting to the class today. We are in the last section of this course on interpreting scripture, where we are dealing with difficult topics and passages intentionally so that we can discuss those topics, those passages, and see how to correctly understand those topics and those passages. Our goal is to apply all that we learned on interpreting scripture. These are the guidelines that we use when we interpret scripture. So our goal is to use those guidelines and help us address difficult topics and difficult passages. Last week, we picked up our first topic or theme, which had to do with the question, is Jesus God? And connected to that, the related questions are, what does it mean for Jesus to be Son of God or to be begotten of the Father? Or there are other phrases we use, like the only begotten or first born, first begotten from the dead. They're all connected. Because when somebody hears the term Son of God or begotten of the Father or first born from the dead, in their minds they're thinking, OK, that means God is greater and he is not God. And he had a beginning because he was born, he was begotten. So that's why we clubbed all this together. And we responded to that first question by saying, first of all, Jesus himself indicated that he is God. So we looked at certain scriptures where Jesus himself spoke his own words, showing that he is God. Second, we looked at some scriptures from the Old Testament that state clearly Jesus is eternal, God. Thirdly, we looked at some scriptures from the New Testament that state clearly that Jesus is God, is eternal. So on all three counts, whether you know what Jesus himself said about himself or the Old Testament says and what the New Testament says, on all three counts it is clear that Bible is telling us or teaching us that Jesus is God. No doubt. So then how do we understand these terms that says Son of God, begotten of the Father, first born from the dead, those are terms we see in the Bible. How do we understand that? So then we said, OK, these things, these terms, which apply to Jesus, they're talking about his incarnation and the deity putting on humanity. So in that context, the term Son of God, begotten of the Father in his resurrection, first born from the dead. So in that context, these terms must be understood and they make complete chance that there's nothing contradictory to the fact that he is deity. But when he chose to become a man, he chose to walk as a son to the Father. So he's called the Son of God. And he came forth from the Father into the earth as human being. So he referred to that as being begotten of the Father, the only begotten of the Father. So there's nothing wrong with that. He's still deity. It hasn't changed the fact that he's God. It's only referring to his incarnation becoming a man. The same thing when the Bible says he's first born from the dead. Well, he's the first person who would be raised from the dead, will never die again. Others were raised from the dead, Lazarus was raised from the dead, he died again. And some others, Jesus raised, they all died. But here is the first one who conquered death, rose up in his humanity. He was human, but he conquered death, deity and humanity together. So we understood that. That's first thing. Now, today we will start off with another topic, which is the Trinity. Now, the word Trinity is not in the Bible, but it is a word that we use to express what the Bible reveals about God. So there's nothing wrong in using that word Trinity. It's just like we use different words in the English language to communicate a certain idea, to communicate a certain thought. So yes, the word Trinity is not in the Bible, but it's expressing a truth that is in the Bible, that is. The Bible presents God as a triune God. One God, but there are three persons in the Godhead. So we need to, we want to understand that. Now, what do we know about the triune God, the triune God? And again, this is not a full in-depth teaching on the Trinity, but we want to, in a very concise way, explain or try to understand to whatever extent we can about the triune God. So in Genesis chapter 1, the very beginning, we see this when God said, let us make man in our own image. This is Genesis 1.26, it's very interesting. Genesis 1.26, let us make man in our own image. Now, if somebody didn't want to get into any kind of controversy and just to write something very easy, he could have written, God said, let me make man in my own image and my likeness, then there would be no controversy. But that's not what Moses did. Moses, who wrote the first five books of the Bible, it's very clear, and God said, so God is speaking, the God of the Bible is speaking, but he says, let us make man in our image and in our likeness. So there's this plural, it's not singular, plural, let us make man. And so as we go through the scriptures, there are many places where we see more than one person of the Godhead revealed to us. So for instance, and I'll just pick out a few references here. If you look at Daniel chapter 7, just look at Daniel 7 and then also acts Daniel chapter 7. Go with me to Daniel 7. Daniel's having a vision of heaven and in verse, Daniel 7, verse 9, he says, I've watched till thrones were put in place and the ancient of days was seated. Daniel 7 verse 9, the ancient of days was seated. So this is God the Father. The ancient of days. But then verse 13, he says, I was watching in the night visions and behold one like the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven. He came to the ancient of days and they brought him near before him. So there's the ancient of days sitting on a throne, which we read in verse 9 of Daniel chapter 7. And there is the Son of man who was brought before him, another person. Now this Son of man, Jesus referred to himself as the Son of man. That is, he was referred to Daniel 7, 13. And to him, when you read chapter 7, to the Son of man was given all the dominions of the kingdoms. So you see, two distinct persons. There's God the Father, God the Son. So like this, there are several of the scriptures. We stop over in John chapter 1. I think we looked at this even last week, which as in the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God and the Word was God. So the word, the eternal Word, he was with God, God the Father, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. So there are two persons already identified here. Even in Jesus' high priestly prayer in John 17 and in verse 5, Jesus prayed and he says, Father, glorify me with the glory which I had with you before the world wars. John 17 verse 5, the glory which I had with you before the world wars. So the Father is in heaven. Jesus is on earth. He's talking. He says, I had the glory with you before the beginning of grace. So two persons already identified. And then when you come into Acts, Acts chapter 5, we know when Peter was rebuking Ananias. And this is with reference to the Holy Spirit. In Acts 5 verse 3, he says, Ananias, you have lied to the Holy Spirit. And then in verse 4, Acts 5 verse 4, he says, you have not lied to men but to God. So here it's very clear. The Holy Spirit is God. So he says, you lied to the Holy Spirit, you lied to God. Then the Holy Spirit is God. Or in Acts 7, when Stephen is being stoned, and then verse 55, we see Acts 755, Stephen is full of the Holy Spirit, is looking into heaven. He sees Jesus standing at the right hand of God. So Acts 755, the three persons of the Godhead are there, the Holy Spirit, Jesus, God. Holy Spirit in Stephen, Jesus, at the right hand of God, the Father, standing at the right hand of God, the Father, three persons. So how should we understand the Trinity? How do we understand it? And I just want to share these thoughts and then we'll take questions as well. Now sometimes, sometimes in some books, you may read something like this. If you have water, water can be in three states. Water can be solid, ice. Water can be liquid or a fluid. And water can be in a gaseous state, water vapor. It's the same water, but in three states. And so some people will try to explain the Trinity like this. But actually, I don't like this illustration. I think because it's a wrong illustration. Because the Bible is not talking about God changing states like becoming solid, liquid, and gas. He's not changing states, no. The Bible is talking about three persons, God the Father, the eternal Word, God the Holy Spirit. It's not like God is changing states. Suddenly solid, suddenly liquid, His form is changing. Nothing. God the Father, He doesn't change His form. He's God the Father. God this eternal Word we refer to Him as God the Son. Doesn't change. God the Spirit. He's still a person just like the Father or like the Son. It's not like God is suddenly becoming vapor and that is Spirit, no. There are three distinct persons in the God. Like we can see through our scripture. And I just pointed out a few scriptures. So this illustration of what changing states is not an accurate illustration of, it's not a good illustration to talk about the Trinity because God is not changing states. There are three distinct persons, but one God. That's one aspect I wanted to address. Then there is another idea that you'll also find that attempts to explain the Trinity, which is there is one God. The same God was the Father or is the Father. This one God became the Son. And this one being is also the Holy Spirit. So the idea is there is one being who is playing three roles. So now, so the previous illustration was changing states as in solid, liquid and gas. This concept has to do with changing roles. One being was playing three different roles. Now, again, that is not, you don't, it doesn't kind of match with the scripture because the Bible is not talking about one being playing the three different roles. For example, in Acts 755, it's not one being playing three different roles. It's God, the Holy Spirit, God, the Father, God, the Son, three beings, three distinct beings. Because the Son is standing at the right hand of the Father. It's not like one being suddenly plays the role of the Father and then he plays the role of the Son and then he plays the role of the Holy Spirit. It's not like that. It's three distinct beings. Daniel 7.13, the ancient of days, the seeds that are in the throne. And there is the Son who comes in the clouds of glory to the, and the stands before the ancient of days. And in the book of Revelation, you find God's seat on the throne. You find Jesus as the Lamb of God, the Lion of Judah. And you see the Holy Spirit as the seven spirits before the throne. So three distinct beings in the throne room of heaven. So the second attempt or the second concept of one being playing three roles again doesn't match scripture. And also, you know, if you ask the question, if it was one being playing three different roles and that one being incarnated and came to the earth, who was in heaven? Or as we read in scripture, the Son was anointed by the Spirit. So if that one being became the Son and that one being also has to play the role of the Spirit, how can he anoint himself? And if that one being was crucified and was buried and went down and he was cut off from the Father, to whom was the Son saying, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Because he's here on the cross. So this whole narrative or this whole attempt to explain the trinity as one being playing three different roles does not match up with what we are seeing in scripture. But instead what we can say is this, we see clearly in scripture, three distinct beings, God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. And yet they are one. They're one in heart and they're perfect harmony. There is no contradiction, nothing in between. So when God said, let us make man, that was perfect harmony, perfect unity. When God planned before time, when he planned the ages, that was perfect harmony, perfect unity. That was perfect love. In the trinity or in the triune Godhead, God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. Perfect. So one God as in this Godhead is one. When you worship the Father, you're worshiping God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. They're not in any form of competition. When you say, Jesus, I love you, you are loving the whole triune Godhead. And you say, Holy Spirit, I love you. You're loving the Godhead. And you say, Father, I love you. You're loving the Godhead. There's no competition. There's perfect unity. And that's why we say one God, one God, the Godhead. Each person of the Godhead is fully God. So Jesus is not one third God. Holy Spirit is not one third God. Now, all of God is fully expressed in the eternal word, the Son of God. All of God is fully expressed in God the Holy Spirit. All of the Godhead is fully expressed in God the Father. So we should not think that Jesus is one third God or Holy Spirit is one third God. No, all of God is fully expressed in the Godhead. Jesus is fully God. The Father is fully God. The Spirit is fully God. All of the Godhead is expressed through each person of the Godhead. And that's why the Bible refers to Jesus or the Holy Spirit. For example, the Holy Spirit is referred to as the glory of the Father. The Holy Spirit, God the Holy Spirit is referred to as the glory of the Father. That's Romans chapter six and verse 11. You know, he's referred to as the glory of the Father. The Holy Spirit is also referred to as the spirit of Christ. The Holy Spirit is referred to as the spirit of Christ. So because every person of the Godhead fully represents the Godhead. That's why the Bible says that about Christ, it says in him the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily. So God the Son, that is Jesus Christ. In him dwells the fullness of the Godhead bodily. So now he has this glorified body and in that glorified body, there is the fullness of the Godhead. All of God is in God the Son. All of God is in the God, the Father. All of God is in God the Spirit. So every person of the Godhead fully represents the Godhead. So when we worship God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, you're worshiping God, the Godhead. So they're co-equal. So we say they are co-equal. They coexist together and they are one God. So this is some things that we can say and understand about the triune God as given to us in the Bible. Do we have all the answers? No, but this is what we can understand from what we see in scripture about the trinity, the triune God of the Bible. Now, this is very important because in 1 John and John is very, very clear about this. He says, verse seven, verse 157, there are three that bear witness in heaven. The Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit and these three are one. Verse 157, there are three that bear witness in heaven. Father, the Word and the Spirit and these three are one. And it is important that this God we embrace this God of the Bible because in 1 John 4, verse 4, he talks about this, verse two, he says, you know the spirit of God. Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God. Verse three, every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. So this is very important that we acknowledge the God of the Bible, the way the Bible presents to us that God came in the flesh as a man and we acknowledge and every spirit acknowledges that is of God. Okay, so any thoughts, any questions about the Trinity, the Trinity, I try to put together what the Bible says about the Trinity. I don't claim to have a complete answer but this is what we see in scripture. Any questions on that? Is it clear, any doubts? Would you be able to explain it to somebody if they asked you about the Trinity or the triune God of the Bible? Would you be able to explain it? Any questions? Everybody okay? So John Paul asks a question. One of the angels visited Abraham in Genesis 18 is that Jesus. So what we have in the Old Testament are what is offered referred to as Theophany that means God appearing as a man, not as in the incarnation where he took on human physical form but he appears either as an angel. It's referred to many times as the capital A. So you'd have it in the case of Abraham, in the case of Joshua, in the case of some of the other prophets like Zechariah and so on. They see an angel but not an angel with a small A but an angel with a capital A. That means God is coming like this heavenly being to speak to these people. So usually it's with a capital A or like Jacob wrestled with God in the Bible says. So like this, right? So we have other examples in Daniel and so on. So that is God himself coming as an angel and many, so we normally say that this is Jesus appearance in the Old Testament as the angel with a capital A. That's one. Some cases it's just stated as God appeared to so and so. Right? So that we refer to as Theophany when God appears to someone as a man and this could be God the Father or it could be God the Son appearing either as an angel or as a man. Now it is not incarnation because they didn't take on human form but they appear in a form of an angel or a man. And so in most of the cases we say this is Jesus appearing as an angel or as a man. In the form or in the appearance of that. Okay, so it is Jesus the eternal word making himself visible to these people. Okay, good. Any other question in relation to the triune God of the Bible? So let me ask you a question. I mean, you know, understood what we just said about the triune God. Is it right to worship Jesus? Is it right to worship the Holy Spirit or must we only worship the Father? What do you think? What is your answer? Can you say, Holy, can you say Holy Spirit, I worship you? Or is it wrong to say that? Yeah, okay. So I see your responses in the chat. Yeah, you know, when you worship the Father you're worshiping the Godhead. When you worship the Holy Spirit, you're worshiping the Godhead. When you worship Jesus, you're worshiping the Godhead. So there is no competition between them who's getting more worship, you know? There's nothing like that. So we worship Jesus. We worship Holy Spirit, we worship the Father. So whatever you say is fine, you know? There is no problem when you say, Jesus, I love you or Holy Spirit, I love you. There's nothing wrong. They are co-equal and they had to be worshiped, okay? Yeah. So I see Colin's comment in this dispensation. Yes, I think you mean that when Jesus was walking on the earth as a man, is that what you mean? You're trying to draw the distinction between that period and now. Go ahead, Colin's. Pastor, that is like bisecting my mind. Clearly, that's what I meant. Okay, that's fine. Okay, I see another question. People say we should stay away from talking to Joe as witness because they can manipulate it well. How do we deal if you come across such a person? Okay, so John is asking a question about Jehovah's Witnesses and how to deal with them. And you know, let's say there's that usually it's very difficult to have a conversation with a Jehovah's Witness because they have been trained pretty well to counteract and to fight their case. And at least from what I've heard about people's interactions, it's very difficult to have a conversation with them. So my response would be, look, if somebody's not willing to listen and they only want to argue, then don't get into it, right? Don't even waste time. Paul told us in 1 Timothy chapter two, he said, sorry, this is in 2 Timothy, 2 Timothy chapter two, right? He says, you know, 2 Timothy 224, the servant of the Lord must not quarrel and but be gentle. And in verse 23, the previous verse, he says, avoid foolish and ignorant disputes because they only cause strife. So any person, any person, whether it's a Jehovah's Witness or somebody else, if their only intent is to argue and to dispute, then they're not really, they're not coming with a genuine heart to learn, but they only want to argue and fight and debate. And, you know, then I think don't waste your time because they're not in a place where they're sincerely asking a question. They're only arguing and then they want to prove their point. So then just don't waste your time. But if somebody sincerely asking and saying, hey, why do you believe in a triune God? Why do you believe in God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit? Why do you do that? Then if they're genuine in their question and they're willing to listen to the answer, then you can take them through the scriptures. Let's say, we see both Old Testament and New Testament, the Bible is presenting to us a triune God. That's why we believe that there is God, the Father, God, the Son, God, the Holy Spirit. So in most cases, Jehovah's Witness only want to argue, they want to fight. So I would say, just avoid those disputes, avoid quarrels, avoid getting into arguments. It's not gonna help anybody. Yeah. Okay. Another question from Nicholson. A lot of people give importance to who they pray to. Does it really matter? For example, pray for healing only in the name of Jesus. Well, so the answer is, it really doesn't matter. Because first and foremost, it is based on relationship. Why would God heal through you and me? Because of relationship, because we are children of God, right? And that's exactly what Jesus mentioned, you know, in Matthew chapter seven, when he was rebuking those people who were used, they said, in your name, Lord, we have cast out demons, when we have prophesied in your name, and what did Jesus say? Depart from me, I never knew you. I did not have a relationship with you. So go away from me, you who work lawlessness. So what was the real problem? No relationship. They were just using something. So the most important thing for us is our relationship with God. And out of that, we are ministers of God, right? So, you know, God may work through us and you may say, Holy Spirit, please touch him. And that person is touched. Now you didn't say Jesus' name or you didn't say Father's name. You just said, Holy Spirit, please touch him. You know, or you might just say, Holy Spirit, please, you know, come upon him or Holy Spirit, please convict him up. Okay, why do we do that? It's because we have a relationship. Now, Jesus did give us the mandate in Mark 16, 17. He said, in my name, cast out demons. So when we say in the name of Jesus, what we are really saying is I am exercising my delegated authority. I'm standing here representing him to do what he wants to do. That's what it means in the name of Jesus. But to say in Jesus' name, without relationship is meaningless, right? So, yes, normally we would say in Jesus' name, that's, you know, we are expressing our authority and exercising our authority when we say in Jesus' name. But the name of Jesus is not a magic formula, right? It all depends on our relationship. So, to answer your question, the norm is, yeah, we say in Jesus' name, but that doesn't mean if you don't say in Jesus' name, people won't get healed. Sometimes I don't say anything, I just touch. I don't say, oh, you only touch. People get healed. Sometimes they're in the presence of God. Nobody even prays for them. They're healed or they're delivered. Why? Because God is with us, right? So, there are certain ways. The Bible teaches us how to minister. You use in the name of Jesus, you pray to the Father in Jesus' name, you lay hands in Jesus' name, you're anoint with oil in Jesus' name. All these other things are there, but these are not formulas. All of this is coming out of that relationship that we have with God. And so, God can work in many ways. Sometimes you just touch people, just lay hands, they can be healed. So, we are just open to any of the ways in God which God works. So, we shouldn't make anything a law or a rule, but just say that these are the things the way the Bible has taught us. We practice any of these, but most important is relationship with God. Okay. Yeah. Okay, thank you. So, what we've done this session is, we've tried to understand to whatever extent we can about the triune God, the Trinity. That is a difficult subject. It is a difficult topic. It's not easy, but our goal is just stay with what the Bible says, stay with the scriptures, and take it for what it says. And we also pointed out two common attempts to try and explain the Trinity, but there are shortfalls in that. One is using the illustration of water in three states. The other one is using one person in three roles, which again has its limitation. So, it's best just to stay with the scriptures and say this is what the scripture says about the Godhead, about the triune God of the Bible. And that's all we can say. And that's how we will worship God. Okay. Now, I want to move to another common difficulty in the scriptures. And this is seemingly contradictory gospel account. How can we explain that? Okay. And I will give you the notes on this. I'm just, I have some outline. And, you know, some people say, hey, if you read the gospels, there seems to be contradiction between certain stories in the gospels. Right. So one example is the demoniac of Gadara. One example. Give you an example. So we have Matthew, Mark, and Luke. So the question that people ask is, so the demoniac of Gadara, was it one demon-possessed man? Or was it two demon-possessed people? Okay. And then they will say, look, there is a contradiction in the Bible. The Bible is not accurate. Right. Because in the Gospel of Mark, there is this account of this man. It says, oh, man. Right. There is one man in the Gospel of Luke, chapter eight. It talks about, what exactly? It was 26. So it's talking about two, right? Look, chapter eight. Yeah. Okay. Look eight also says also. Okay. Look also says there was one man. I think it's Matthew says, too. Let's go to Matthew nine. Matthew eight. Sorry. Yes. Matthew, chapter eight. And so Matthew eight, twenty eight. Two demon-possessed. Okay. Matthew says there were two men. Mark and Luke say there was one man. Okay. But the rest of the story, or the rest of the incident in all the three Gospels is similar, which is, the demons speak and say, we are Legion. Jesus, what's your name? So we are Legion. That means about 6000 demons. And they all, they request to go into the swine. Jesus says, go. They go into the herd of swine. And they fall into the water and they die. And the people come from the city and they say, they're very afraid and they send Jesus away. Right. Um, so Matthew, Mark and Luke. So some, this is one example. Where Jesus, uh, where Matthew is talking about Jesus. Uh, and they all, they request to go into the swine. Jesus says, go. They go into the herd of swine. And they fall into the water and they die. And the people come from the city and they say, they're going to go into the swine. Uh, where Matthew is talking about two deep into this map. Mark and Luke is talking about one. So the question is, why is there this difference? Is it an error? And how do you explain this? Right. So what do you think? How would you respond to somebody who asks a question like this? About the demoniac of Gadara. So how, how, here's what we say, right? Um, so Matthew said there are two men who came demon possessed. Mark says one looks as one. Why is there this difference? Okay. First of all, we can say that this is a good sign. Actually, this is a good sign. It's a sign that people didn't just copy each other's because if they copied each other, then they would all throw one. This is a good sign. Right. Uh, we, we know that, uh, you know, the gospels, gospel writers for all the gospel was all written in different periods of time. Um, uh, if I remember correctly, I think it was, um, Mark who wrote around 63 on these approximate dates. He wrote around 63 AD, then Luke 66, then Matthew 67, and then John's gospel, which was written a little later. Uh, I think around towards the end of the century, which was probably a eighties or nineties nineties. So they were written in different points in time. Now it's very interesting. How would we explain it? Well, you could say it like this. See, we can all watch the same event happening. And each, so we could, we could, we could use the example of reporters who report the news. Right. So example, if you're, if we are all watching, uh, soccer match, a football match, soccer match, and we see somebody scoring a goal, right? And there are three reporters who are reporting that, that, that gold scoring moment in the newspaper. One reporter may emphasize that the one particular forward gave a good overpass to the person who scored the goal. So his writing, we emphasize that. Okay. So, you know, say, they'd mentioned, you know, forward number 10 gave a wonderful power cross pass to the forward on the left, on the, on the, on the left wing. And he received the ball and he scored the goal. So he will emphasize that. Another reporter who's reporting the same incident may report how wonderfully the person, the forward on the left wing received the ball and tackled two people and scored the goal. So he's focusing on the fact that that person had to tackle two people before scoring the goal. Another reporter is focusing on the fact that the ball was passed to him. A third reporter reporting the same incident may report and say, you know, uh, actually, uh, it wasn't the goal keeper's fault because, uh, there were two defenders in front of the goalkeeper and they, they, they, they, the goalkeeper couldn't see, you know, the pass that was being made and the, the, the left for left wing who received the pass, the goalkeeper couldn't see how very he was moving. So he was actually out taken out of position. And so he was able to score the goal. So three reporters, they're all reporting the same incident. But the emphasis could be on something different. One is emphasizing the pass, one is emphasizing how the person received the pass and tackled the third one is emphasizing how the goalkeeper was in a disadvantageous position and therefore couldn't save the ball. But they're all reporting on the same incident. Does it mean the incident didn't happen? No, it happened. They all saw it. They saw the same thing, but the reporting is different. They're looking at it from different angles or different perspectives. Okay. So just keep this thought in mind. I know we're getting into our break time. We just go for a break and come back and I'll finish this and then we will take up, uh, the question, uh, from Brother Manohar and we will look at a few more discrepancies in the New Testament, the gospel accounts and how to respond to them. Okay. So let's take our break. We'll come back in 10 minutes and we'll continue this. Thank you.